Cold Blooded Killers and their Cheerleaders 385

The Guardian’s main headline today is the Israeli propaganda framing of last night’s huge massacre.

The Zionist grip on the political and media class is stark. Ordinary citizens are left with feelings ranging from rage to deep sorrow, but with a feeling of helplessness at having no power and no genuine voice in the country where they live. The bought-and-paid-for politicians intone “Israel’s right to self-defence” as justifying the slaughter of any number of Palestinian children.

They pretend they do not see the obvious genocide which is happening before their eyes. The Guardian’s framing of the death of hundreds, probably thousands, of young children last night, as destruction of Hamas tunnels, ought to be astonishing. Sadly it is entirely unsurprising.

Here is a reminder of how it works. Joan Ryan MP secretly filmed talking to Shai Masot of the Israeli Embassy in London.

Last night, well after the latest extreme massacre phase had started, the BBC 10 o’clock evening news presented a single volley of Hamas no-warhead popgun missiles – which as usual killed nobody – as equivalent to the massive Israeli high explosive bombardment. They then featured a lengthy interview with a “heroic” clean-cut Israeli soldier who fought a Hamas attack on a military base on 7 October despite being wounded, and who explained that the attacks on Gaza are justified as they will free Israel from terrorism.

All this while the massive massacre was in progress in Gaza. The strange thing is, the BBC and the Guardian, and nearly the entire rest of the MSM, pump out their propaganda as though we have no other access to information or understanding of what is happening.

More than that, there seems to be a presumption that the general population harbour the same Zionist assumptions which the journalists are paid to promote. Well, we don’t. It feels like something has snapped, not only in Palestine but in the UK and much of Europe, where the process of alienation between the governed and the ruling classes has been accelerated.

Democracy has been failing in the West for a while – to take the UK as an example, the idea that a “choice” between Sunak and Starmer offers any kind of democratic alternative is risible. There are key moments in societal breakdown, and this is one.


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385 thoughts on “Cold Blooded Killers and their Cheerleaders

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  • Jm

    The MSM and politicians – all bought (or something else) – need to get out of their little bubble and read the room. Everywhere else but the MSM the mood is real anger and something indeed has changed.

    Tipping point.

    • Peter Mo

      MSM should adjust their thinking. Hamas did not kill 1400 Israeli’s in their attack.
      Rather an alleged 1400 died as a result of the attack with a considerable killed by panicking IDF soldiers who even used tanks to shell homes where Hamas were encamped with Jewish families. That fact is documented with evidence. The only unknown is the number. The 29 deceased children could well have been killed by Israeli crossfire which is far more likely. The beheaded baby story has been debunked.

  • Goose

    Isn’t the editor-in-chief, Kath Viner, Jewish?

    I remember reading she once described herself in an interview as “that little Jewish girl”. Nick Cohen, Rafael Behr, Hadley Freeman; George Monbiot and Jonathan Freedland show prominent Jewish journalists dominate that paper’s opinion pieces. Jessica Elgot, the Guardian’s deputy political editor, someone whom Viner appeared to be grooming as a successor, is also open about her faith. They were Corbyn’s main tormentors, hyping the bogus antisemitism allegations at every possible opportunity in their columns. Though, Freedland produced a remarkably balanced piece recently. It acknowledged Netanyahu’s role in supporting Hamas, in order to divide Palestinians among themselves.

    Not that Jews don’t criticise Israel; they do. But it’s a fair characterisation to say the vast majority of the British Jewish community are fully supportive of Israel’s brutal actions. Well, at least they are for now. Until the full scale of this unfolding, reputation-staining atrocity becomes clear.

    • Jm

      The Guardian revealed its loyalties and function when it ratted out Assange.
      It’s an unreadable, completely biased rag and has been for a long time now.

      • Goose

        I don’t think that’s on former editor-in-chief Alan Rusbridger,

        That likely had more to do with Luke Harding and James Ball. Ball was subsequently exposed as having in secret worked for the British intelligence propaganda unit Integrity Initiative.

        • pretzelattack

          I think Rusbridger had something to do with it. When did the Guardian change from a Trust to some kind of entity that was not required to comply with the original trust documents? I think that was during his tenure, but I could be wrong. Viner of course is worse.

          • Goose


            They wouldn’t have splashed the Snowden stuff were that the case. The rolling revelations, in 2013, were the bravest UK reporting I’ve ever seen. The govt and security services were apoplectic, over what would drop next. The staff there at the time, later said, the stress was akin to being under siege.

            Kath Viner has transformed it into a tame lapdog of the security services. For which, in return, they seemingly, occasionally throw them a treat; typically some story about Putin, Xi orbit foreign leaders’ corruption. A poor trade-off, as no one in the UK is the slightest bit interested.

          • Casual Observer

            Seem to recall an incident (forget the specifics) whereby Rusbridger got a late night visit from Ronson (of Guinness Trial fame) and the Israeli Ambo, in response to some article that the G published that was viewed by the ‘Lobby’ as having trodden firmly on the third rail.

            No doubt the effect was strong enough to create change towards the end of Rusbridger’s time ?

        • Pretzelattack

          I think it was an ongoing process. they still had Greenwald then too. Just as in the case of the Intercept, the rot was there before he left, and eventually caused him to leave both companies. Some group bought the Guardian, and first changed it from a trust to some other kind of legal entity that was not restricted by being a trust. My impression is they started publishing anti Assange articles before Rusbridger left. Who made the decision that he would be replaced by Viner? I think he had a hand in it. at any rate, I guess you get the same result, a worthless propaganda organ, in either case.

          • Goose

            Viner was a fashion writer. It was claimed that she was chosen – by staff ballot – because they collectively wanted a quieter life after all the Snowden drama.
            The FT’s Janine Gibson, who was also in the running, would’ve been a much better choice imho. She positively revelled in the Snowden revelations, publicly arguing and defending the public’s right to know, about those overreaching, multi-billion dollar mass surveillance programmes. Programmes that nobody knew about and nobody voted for.

          • Goose


            A better choice for whom?

            Anyone who wants the Guardian to fulfil an anti-establishment role and be fearless when questioning authority and official narratives. Breaking big investigative stories that make corrupt powerful people v. nervous. If a PM or senior national security official thinks, this could well end up on the front page of the guardian, a false flag operation might not happen.

            The Guardian also seems to have gone silent about radical democratic / constitutional reform. They rarely mention proportional representation; federalism, or House of Lords reform. They’ve not pressed Starmer, at all, on any of these things. We were closer to reform in the 1990s‒2010 than we are now. Back then, all parties agreed the time had come to reform. Suddenly it’s 2023! What happened?

          • Bayard

            So not a better choice for the people who are actually employing the editor then? Why should anyone else matter? Newspapers, like any other business, exist to make money for their owners. If they decide to do that by combatting oppression and corruption, so much the better, but they have no duty to do so.

      • Coldish

        Jim (13.10): I would single out one Guardian reporter, John Harris, as worth reading and, on his podcasts, worth listening to.

      • mark cutts

        The idea of ‘independent’ and ‘fearless’ reporting at The Guardian went out of the window when the editorial board destroyed hard drives of WikiLeaks revelations in front of MI5/6.

        The if I remember correctly Viner took over.

        By the way – I haven’t seen or witnessed a German Vox Populi as to what they think of Western sanctions on Russia or the current situation of the plight of the Palestinians.

        I suspect most (left and right) are hopping mad.

        I hear that here was a massive demo today in London vis a ceasefire.

        500,000 plus?

        The BBC meanwhile brought us their usual cat-delivering-a-dead-bird message to its audience, and swiftly moved on to the weather with…………..

    • Cabbage

      There is no balance in Freedland’s Zionist puff piece. Which starts from a dishonest premise, wraps a dishonest framing around a nakedly racist argument.

      He deliberately elides Jews and Israel, frames Zionism as a reaction to WW2 rather than Balfour declaration being in 1917.
      His idea at a balance is to allude to a relentless campaign of Zionist terror from 1918 to 1948 culminating in the murder of over 15,000 Palestinians and the expulsion of 800,000 people many on death marches they didn’t survive, with a single sentence.

      He then invokes the European Crimes against Humanity committed in Europe by Europeans, as something that is more relevant to the occupation of Palestine by European Zionist Settler Terrorist gangs. than the massacre of Palestinians by European Zionist Settler Terrorist gangs.

      He repeats the atrocity propaganda traducing the gaza-ghetto uprising, suggests what was the military defeat of the entire Gaza brigade as an attack on unarmed people – he suggests the 7,300 unarmed Palestinians murdered by the Zionist terrorists are somehow either combatants or died through the siege not were murdered violently from the sky. – He suggests that a ceasefire wouldn’t serve the innocent, cheerleading their slaughter with humanitarian concern.

      It suggests that the population of European Immigrants to Palestine have an “ancient connection” but doesn’t mention the Palestinian People living in Palestine continuously since antiquity.

      It’s a tissue of Zionist tropes. take “It squeezes the Israel-Palestine conflict into a “decolonisation” frame it doesn’t quite fit, with all Israelis – not just those in the occupied West Bank – defined as the footsoldiers of “settler colonialism”, no different from, say, the French in Algeria.”

      Tellingly he offers no evidence to this bald-faced lie, The Zionist movement are settler colonists that drove Palestinians off their land with a sustained campaign of violent terrorism. The PM is a Lithuanian, The President is a German, the Defence minister is a Pole. They are foreign nationals holding a West Asian population captive in ghetto while regularly murdering them in industrial scale.

      “Never mind that Jews sought a refuge in Palestine motivated not by an imperial desire for expansion, but because they faced annihilation. ”
      The Zionist movement speaks for itself.
      “Advocacy of the restoration of Palestine as a national homeland for the Jews was first heard among self-identified Christian groups in the 1580s”

      To this day – the Zionists quote the Bible not the Torah or Talmud to justify their crimes.

      “: “You need to change the narrative of the Bible because it’s all there””

      it represented a marked shift for Ben-Gurion, who had always grounded the Zionist claim to Palestine in the Bible, not in the diaspora’s history of persecution.

      Ben-Gurion was born David Yosef Gruen in 1886, into a Yiddish-speaking family of three brothers and two sisters in the town of Płońsk, seventy kilometres west of Warsaw. The Gruens lived in an insular Jewish world and never thought of themselves as Poles. Ben-Gurion’s father, Victor, was an early supporter of Theodor Herzl and nurtured his son’s Zionism; Ben-Gurion claimed that he knew at the age of three that he would eventually live in Palestine. In his teens he joined Po’alei Zion (‘Workers of Zion’) and soon established himself as a ‘thuggish labour boss’: he and his comrades would go around Płońsk with pistols, extorting money from wealthy Jews to improve conditions for Jewish workers. ‘We have weapons and we will kill you all like dogs,’ Ben-Gurion is said to have told his enemies in the Bund, who were socialists but not Zionists. When speaking of his heroes, he expressed himself in a different register, infused with romantic nationalism: on Herzl’s death in 1904, Ben-Gurion proclaimed him ‘the instrument of the gods’, thanks to whom Zionism would triumph in ‘the land of poetry and truth, of flowers and the visions of the prophets’.

      The rabbis of Płońsk did not share his admiration. Zionism violated the Talmudic prohibition against any attempt to reconquer the Holy Land before the return of the Messiah, and they forbade their followers from marrying into Zionist families.

        • Cabbage

          He’s known Regev since before Mark Friedberg changed his name to Regev.

          It’s so dishonest – if Zionists just wanted to immigrate to Palestine and live as Palestinians, they’d all rub along just fine.

          Eastern European Terrorists then and now are subjugating the indigenous population of Western Asia based on identification with a political ideology. It’s simple – The Zionists are the Bad Guys,

          The Zionist State Terrorist group came from Europe in 1880-1948 – Half the Terrorists in 1947-49 had literally just arrived before being issued a Gun and told to murder people as part of a Genocidal campaign called Plan Dalet.

          The people are still there, they exist, Palestine exists, The Zionist State terrorist group can call their encampment what ever name makes the evangelical base cough up a few quid. It’s Palestine, with Palestinians who own the Land, a bunch of Terrorists killed people and took their stuff – that’s it.

          The Zionist Movement is A European response to European Racism by European Racists.
          Palestine has been the name in continuous use for 3000 years, It’s one of the oldest continuously inhabited places in the world.

        • Casual Observer

          I bet they wish they still had Regev as rep to the Court of St James. The women (Harpy’s) they placed both there and in Ireland have been unprofessional in the extreme.

          • Cabbage

            I agree – they seem to think that bluster and dehumanization play as well abroad as at home.

            Interestingly the Georgian Gorgon was not a popular pick for London for exactly that reason.
            I personally love the Romanian/Hungarian delegate to the UN from the Zionist State.

            It’s an object lesson in the damaging effects of emotive argument.
            Every appearance showcases an angry entitled bully, with contempt for human life and international law.

        • Cabbage

          Where is the balance ? As I see it, he’s partisan and disingenuous. Can you elucidate the balance you perceive?

          It smears “Free Palestine, from river to sea, Palestine will be free” as not being a cry for the liberation of Palestine from occupation and equal rights for all inhabitants of Palestine, but instead a cry for causing the settler terrorist gangs to experience the atrocities they visited on the Palestinians in 1948 and 1967. As per usual, he offers no evidence for this racist dehumanising smear; they are savages, is the subtext, who couldn’t want freedom.

          The Palestinians have a slogan – our revenge will be the laughter of our children.

      • Coldish

        Cabbage (15.51): a minor correction: the current president of Israel, Isaac Herzog, is not, or not directly, of German descent, although his surname is the German equivalent of ‘Duke’. His father (also a president of Israel) was an Irishman, born in Belfast and educated at a methodist school in Dublin. His paternal grandfather was chief Rabbi of Ireland.

        • Cabbage

          @Coldish – thank you, I stand corrected – Wikipedia suggests ” Herzog’s father was born and raised in Ireland and his mother was born in Egypt; their families were of Eastern European Jewish descent (from Poland, Russia, and Lithuania). “

        • Tom Welsh

          So where does the surname “Herzog” come from? Many families in similar situations would have changed their name to “Duke”. But a surname does not materialise out of thin air.

  • Robyn

    I do wish people would stop watching/reading/listening to the BBC and all the other MSM collaborators. With so many reputable journalists and analysts, there’s simply no reason to frequent the propaganda outlets. The shameful massacre taking place right now in Gaza would never have happened without the MSM pumping out lies year after year.

  • Republicofscotland

    As the Zionists went on a huge killing spree last night the UN had a vote.

    ” The United Nations General Assembly on Friday overwhelmingly called for an immediate humanitarian truce between Israel and Palestinian militants Hamas and demanded aid access to the besieged Gaza Strip and protection of civilians.

    The resolution drafted by Arab states is not binding but carries political weight, taking the global temperature as Israel steps up ground operations in Gaza in retaliation for the worst Hamas attack on civilians in Israel’s 75-year-old history on Oct. 7.

    It passed to a round of applause with 120 votes in favor, while 45 abstained and 14 – including Israel and the United States – voted no. The General Assembly voted after the Security Council failed four times in the past two weeks to take action.”

    The Zionists said.

    “Israel has rejected calls for a ceasefire because it says Hamas would benefit.

    “A ceasefire means giving Hamas time to rearm itself, so they can massacre us again,” Israel’s U.N. Ambassador Gilad Erdan told the assembly on Thursday.

    “Any call for a ceasefire is not an attempt at peace. It is an attempt to tie Israel’s hands, preventing us from eliminating a huge threat to our citizens,” he said. “It is the law-abiding democracy of Israel, against modern-day Nazis.””

    If these Zionist madmen don’t stop the killings, I foresee a large regional war breaking out, the US in the prospect of this happening, has moved its Eisenhower carrier fleet out of the Eastern Med possibly towards their Central Command, which covers the Persian Gulf, the Red Sea and other Middle Eastern waters.

  • Gordon Hastie

    Almost worse than the ongoing genocide and ethnic cleansing is the media’s complicity, and almost as depressing is the public’s willingness to be gaslit – perhaps because the true story is so horrendous and damning of Israel and the Zionists.

    • Tom Welsh

      It’s of a piece with the German public’s willingness not to notice the Nazi attacks on Jews. Either they were exceedingly insouciant, or they actually approved.

    • Casual Observer

      The beast pulling the gas-lighters wagon is failing fast. Maybe testimony to the man on the Clapham omnibus, and his inherent inclination to lean towards what might be described as fair play ?

  • Harry Law

    If the UK Government are aware that war crimes and genocide are taking place in Gaza as we speak, and they are, then any claim justifying Israel’s Right to self defence is a lie. The intent of the Israeli regime was made plain when their Defence Minister Yoav Galant speaking on behalf of his government said on 8th October“I have ordered a complete siege on the Gaza strip, there will be no electricity, no food, no fuel everything is closed” in addition according to Bloomberg television 9th Oct 2023, he said “We are fighting human animals”. Now the UK government and opposition are guilty of aiding and abetting grave war crimes and crimes against humanity, they must be hunted down and prosecuted.

    • Stevie Boy

      The rot goes all the way to the top.
      “We want you to win’: Rishi Sunak says he ‘supports Israel’s right to defend itself’ and ‘go after Hamas”
      Sunak is a piece of shit.

      • Tom Welsh

        Perhaps more important, Mr Sunak reveals amazing lack of self-preservation for a politician. He has given a future war crimes prosecution some excellent material, quite unnecessarily.

          • glenn_nl

            That would require him to have some principles, and I am sure he has none.

            No, Sunak – just like Starmer – is behaving this way because they want to please the Establishment, in order to get power.

          • Casual Observer

            Unlikely ?? Given that his Mrs was required to lose shed loads of money to HMRC by way of giving up the last few years of her Non Dom status, I’d suspect that if Rishi was relieved of the burden of being Conservative leader, she, and he would not be too displeased.

    • Tom Welsh

      On this blog above all, we should know that HMG also approved of an tried to hush up that some of their prized intelligence came from the Uzbek government’s torture of suspects. HMG has absolutely no scruples or ethics.

      • Bayard

        “HMG has absolutely no scruples or ethics.”

        Governments never do, they can’t afford to, which is why it says in the Bible “Put not your trust in princes”. The difference with HMG is that it has stopped pretending that it does.

  • Republicofscotland

    Irish MEP Clare Daly distraught at EU officials for failing to call for at the very least a ceasefire.

    “The Council conclusions are unforgiveable. A ceasefire – in line with UN demands – was the absolute minimum. This is worse than nothing. EU has greenlit genocide. This will NEVER be forgotten. No return to business as usual. We, and millions more, will not give up this fight.”

  • pretzelattack

    There are a lot of pro Palestinian comments on the news stories about the big demonstration in New York City at the Central Terminal. I think people are waking up, I mean a lot of people. The majority of commenters are still quite supportive of Israel and the genocide, though. Most people in the US (and probably the UK) still live in an information bubble; I was trying to get at that, and the utter corruption of the legal system in both countries, by pointing out that even as this happens, people who should be charged with war cimes like George W. Bush are still being honored, while honest journalists like Mr. Murray are being persecuted.

  • Goose

    Bel Trew: Gaza humanitarian crisis could reach ‘catastrophic levels’ under Israel’s expanded operations.

    If politicians aren’t concerned about Israel’s indiscriminate bombing and shelling of densely populated areas, then they should be bothered about this. Literally hundreds of thousands could be at risk of needlessly dying, due to thirst, hunger and disease, thanks to a US/UK aided and abetted, enforced siege. Israel has provided no truly ‘safe’ designated areas. Equally, there’ll be no hiding place for any UK officials and politicians who supported this. This is a man-made humanitarian catastrophe that’ll be thrown the face of Western diplomats for years to come.

    • Cabbage

      The tragic thing about this, is that it won’t have any political consequences in England. We don’t live in a democracy, so the feedback loop between public opinion and political behaviour.

      Incidentally this is much more articulately phrased than my poor ramblings:

      « It is the status of European Jews in the West that governs how westerners view Jews in relation to Palestine, and how European Jews are viewed in the Arab world, especially by Palestinians. Whereas in the West, European Jews are depicted as refugees fleeing the Nazis and the subsequent horrors of post-Holocaust Europe, survivors of a war of annihilation and victims of British commitments to the Arabs, Palestinians view European Jews from their own direct experiences.

      For Palestinians, European Jews did not arrive as refugees but as invaders whose sole purpose was to appropriate Palestine by any possible means to realise Zionist colonial aspirations, which began half a century before the rise of Hitler to power. This is why Palestinians view European Jews not as helpless refugees, but as armed colonists committing massacres. It is this perspective that Edward Said wanted to convey in his classic essay “Zionism from the Standpoint of its Victims”. »

      • Urban Fox

        I think the Saudi king at the time, said it best. If you really want to give reparations for the Holocaust and failure to stop it, to European Jews and create a “new Zion” sanctuary state for them.

        Then give them a good-sized chunk of Germany, and ensure its protection & prosperity.

        Rather than trying to get them to colonize what had been a quiet Arab backwater in Palestine.

        • Bayard

          They were offered a good-sized chunk of Russia, but they weren’t interested. They wanted Palestine, so that they could pretend they were “returning” to a country that they ruled thousands of years previously and thus weren’t colonists.

          • Stevie Boy

            I don’t believe the jews/tribes of Israel actually ruled Palestine in the past. Inhabited it yes, but along with other ‘biblical’ tribes. The story of a historical homeland is just that, a story.

  • Republicofscotland

    One of the largest demos London has seen, I think, a Pro-Palestinian stop the slaughter demo, its patently obvious to me that the majority of dis-united kingdom politicians are badly out of touch with what the average person on the street thinks, with regards to the Zionists ongoing genocide in Gaza.

    Or they are in the pocket of the Zionists in the first place.

  • Laguerre

    It’s been bad luck for Starmer, this Gaza crisis. He had almost got away with presenting himself as a votable future prime minister, as against yet another incompetent Tory, when his weakest point rose up and bit him in the butt – his slavish devotion to Israel, and employment of a member of the Mossad in his private office. I don’t think he’ll be forgiven that when this crisis is over.

    • Goose


      I can’t understand why he isn’t facing a leadership challenge by an anti-war candidate? Iirc, it takes 20% (around 40 MPts) of the PLP to nominate a candidate for a contest. Given the sizeable SCG that never wanted him in the first place, and the Muslim MPs, now furious over his stance. Putting those nominations together, to hand to the party’s general secretary, should be as easy as falling off a log.
      Corbyn was challenged remember, in 2016, over the Brexit referendum result – he was perceived to have not campaigned energetically enough for ‘Remain’.
      Any contest, were it to go ahead, would be held under one member, one vote OMOV, a system Starmer tried to replace. But I honestly think Starmer would rather stand down than face members and have to explain his betrayal of his 10 Pledges, and his uncritical support of Israel.

      • Tom Welsh

        It isn’t a war; it’s a massacre. Aside from that, most of the UK and US public quite enjoy hearing and seeing other civilians being murdered with impunity. It helps them to feel a little better off than someone.

      • Johnny Conspiranoid

        “I can’t understand why he isn’t facing a leadership challenge by an anti-war candidate?”
        Is there anybody left in the Labour Party who wants to challenge him or has he got rid of them all?

    • Bayard

      How is Starmer going to replace all those voters who were only voting Labour because of Corbyn in the last election? I can’t think of a single thing he has done to appeal to anyone except those who vote Labour out of tribal loyalty and right-wingers. Perhaps, like Hillary Clinton, he thinks he doesn’t have to try very hard.

  • nevermind

    I said it before and I say it again, we need a massive campaign against voting for any party, they are all complicit, bar the Green Party.
    Why should we, who are never asked on issues of war, decide to vote for parties that are deliberately supporting genocide and breaches of basic rules of conflict, why should we vote for politicians who have succumbed to a Zionist political ideology that fosters division of race, which creates classes of Jews which are more or less favored when it comes to housing and services. An ideology that speaks of making dreams of a Land between the Tigris and Euphrates theirs, creating a new reality by any means.

    Looking at the steals of land already committed, i.e 70% of Palestine taken by violence and genocidal displacement of the owners of this land, East Jerusalem, Palestine’s capital, land stolen or bought off under threat of evictions, the Golan, an integral part of Syria, and the Shiba farms in the north, taken from Lebanon, all this violence is manifest of this Zionist dream Zev Jablonski alluded to.

    Voting for the main three parties in the next general election will make all voters and hangers on guilty of supporting this inhumane violence, by association.

    here is the GPEW statement, something that would not be amplified by our complicit media landscape, take care all.

    9 October 2023

    Responding to the unfolding horror in Israel and Gaza, Green Party co-leader Adrian Ramsay said:

    “Our first thoughts are with the hundreds of innocent victims who are faced with the devastating and escalating violence. Most civilians caught up in the conflict have an overriding desire to live in peace.

    “The Green Party calls for an immediate end to the violence in Israel and Palestine. The targeting of civilians is an outrageous breach of international law and is unacceptable under all circumstances.

    “We urge the international community to take immediate steps to protect civilian life and infrastructure from attack, and to launch immediate humanitarian relief efforts.

    “The long absence of a meaningful political dialogue and peace process has created a vacuum, which has been filled by those who offer violence as a solution. The pathway to ending these waves of violence and bringing about a long-term political settlement must begin with an end to illegal occupation.

    “The UN Security Council, of which the UK is a permanent member, must act to prevent the spread of the conflict to neighbouring states such as Lebanon and Iran. They have so far failed to agree any new political initiative to address the fundamental causes of these latest acts of violence. For the sake of thousands of people on both sides in this conflict, they urgently need to do so.”

    • glenn_nl

      N: “I said it before and I say it again, we need a massive campaign against voting for any party, they are all complicit, bar the Green Party. “

      And I’ll say it again – failing to vote doesn’t bother politicians or the Establishment in the slightest. They would rather you didn’t. Haven’t you noticed that low turnout in recent years hasn’t caused them the least discomfort?

      Do you actually think there is a threshold low enough, so if the vote drops below that point (eg, 10%), the Establishment will say, “Ooh! Only 10% of the population voted… Quick! We’d better upturn our policies and start really governing in a decent fashion!”? Seriously? Get real!

      Voting for the Greens en masse would make a difference. Throwing your vote away is utter stupidity.

        • glenn_nl

          No, no, no. That’s a terrible idea. Violence is something The Establishment understands very well, responds to with practiced ease, and has a well-oiled media machine primed and ready to condemn it.

          Any such action would be roundly condemned as ‘undemocratic’, ‘terrorism’, “denying ordinary, decent, ‘hard-working’ people their say” etc. etc. – in fact, you would be handing them a tremendous victory for no gain whatsoever.

          Besides. Polling stations are generally staffed with well meaning, unpaid volunteers who want to help people to vote. Would you seriously want to put these people – and ordinary voters – at risk?

          Honestly, this has to be one of the most stupid ideas I’ve heard for a long time. Even more stupid than the “Don’t vote!” brigade.

          • Cabbage

            I agree – it’s a blatantly stupid idea.

            Shame on you for making this despicable suggestion, especially in-light of our host’s persecution.
            Acts of wanton criminality or violence serve no purpose but the suggestions are often made by

            If you want to be heard – vote – write to your mp. join the peaceful marches.
            Yes they will ignore us, but you will inspire others to join, the arc of history bends towards justice viewed on a long enough scale.

    • Stevie Boy

      “bar the Green Party”. What short memories.
      Remember the Green Party stances on: Brexit, Covid, Trans, Immigrants, Ukraine, Climate, etc.
      The Brighton Tree Huggers may be on message about Gaza but they are wrong on virtually everything else. Green Tories is what they are, part of the uni-party.
      There is no-one currently worth voting for. But if you want more of the same then carry on supporting the uni-party.

      • glenn_nl

        Oh I forgot – climate change and covid etc. is all bullshit, right?

        Would you care to back up that position on this thread

        … or are you one of those shy denialists who like to make a simplistic statement and then run away?

    • Dermot O Connor

      If the UK Greens are anything like their cousins in Ireland and Germany, both of which are in power, then prepare for disappointment. The Irish fascists wore blueshirts, the Irish Greens are often called ‘Blueshirts on bikes’. It’s unfair, but only slightly. Bike lanes for nice upper middle class people, austerity for the proles is their MO.

      Please don’t throw away a genuine protest vote on them.

  • Laguerre

    The parallelism with the Warsaw Ghetto is getting more and more striking – they’ll have trouble denying it when the extermination campaign is over. It’s the same Eastern European mentality – brutal imposition by the military (Crooke says that it’s the military who are pushing for the total crack-down, not Netanyahu, because they’ve been shown up to be weak. Not that suppressing the Warsaw Ghetto and the subsequent Warsaw uprising changed the course of the war for Germany.). This is the tipping point for Israel, I suspect. They can never get back to the carefree times they have lived these last decades.

    • pretzelattack

      both the US government and the Israeli government are ruthless and reclkess when their perceived interests are threatened, if Biden backtracks (and we’re a long way from that but some scenarios could see him replaced and blamed as a scapegoat if it all goes south), we could get another USS Liberty attack by Israel. How did they know they could get away with the first one? Conversely if they did not know, why would they carry it out? there was no vital interest threatened by the US.

      • Laguerre

        Things have changed since 1967. The reaction to a Liberty attack would be different (not necessarily better). I’ve never really understood why the Liberty attack was carried out (Israel was not in danger).

        • pretzelattack

          that attack made no sense to me at all, attack the ship of your strongest ally? what?? and the Johnson just hid the incident, called the planes back that would have exacted a penalty on Israel. As far as I know Israel didn’t have the bomb yet. neither country’s action was rational, imo. and I don’t trust the people in charge in both countries to be any more rational today. I don’t know what the US reaction would be, either.

        • Cabbage

          The working theory is that is was supposed to be a false flag that would give the Israeli a reason to nuke Egypt.
          However the ship failed to sink, so the idea that it was the Egyptians never took off.

          • Lysias

            There were reports that the Israelis abruptly terminated the attack when a Russian ship appeared on the scene.

            The nuke would, according to the plan, have been delivered over Cairo by a US plane.

      • Jen

        Dear Pretzel Attack,

        The Israelis tried to sink the USS Liberty and strafed it as well to kill all crew members. The attack would then be blamed on Egypt and that would apparently be sufficient enough to draw the US into attacking Egypt (and maybe deposing the then Egyptian President Nasser) during the Six Day War.

        There possibly was a vital interest that the USS Liberty threatened: the ship might have been in a position to be able to observe by radio surveillance an incident in El Arish (Egypt) of Israeli soldiers massacring Egyptian POWs.

  • Tdg

    Hamas’s avowed aim is not the liberation of Palestine but the extinction of all Jews. Their incursion into Israel had no military objective, merely a genocidal one. There may be many here who wish, following a well-established historical tradition, that Jews just lined themselves up for slaughter, but a lack of consensus on this point should not be hard to understand.

    Mr Murray has in the past rightly warned us of the danger of trusting either side of the propaganda that issues in war. I am relying here only on facts both sides concede; it is a shame he no longer feels he should.

    • Jm


      “There may be many here who wish, following a well-established historical tradition, that Jews just lined themselves up for slaughter,”

      Don’t be so utterly ridiculous and offensive.

    • pretzelattack

      what was the military objective of the Warsaw Ghetto Revolt? were they trying to wipe out the Germans, in your opinion? was Germany just defending itself, as you claim the Israelis are? most people who aren’t rabid ideological Zionists think the Jews in the Warsaw Ghetto were defending themselves in an intolerable situation. Just like the Palestinians are doing now, in Gaza. And the one who didn’t support Hamas are being slaughtered right along with Hamas and, worth mentioning, the Israeli hostages, who are apparently being better treated by Hamas than Palestinians are being treated by the murderous IDF.

    • Laguerre

      “Hamas’s avowed aim is not the liberation of Palestine but the extinction of all Jews. ”
      That’s a lie. Hamas has never said that, it’s a falsehood invented by the hasbara. Extinction of the state of Israel is quite a different matter; that used to be in the constitution of Hamas and is a perfectly reasonable aim. but is not now.

      • Pears Morgaine

        Unfortunately it isn’t. It’s in their Charter of 1988 ‘The Day of Judgment will not come about until Moslems fight Jews and kill them. Then, the Jews will hide behind rocks and trees, and the rocks and trees will cry out: ‘O Moslem, there is a Jew hiding behind me, come and kill him.’ They also want Israel ‘obliterated’ and reject any idea of a peaceful solution.

          • Urban Fox

            The Jewish fable of the Golem springs to mind, or perhaps that of Frankenstein’s monster. Be wary of what you create.

            Of course the west, particularly the UK has form for supporting Islamists & their terrorist groups against secular movements in the Muslim world. Then have the temerity to moralize about it, when their pet monsters lash out at them, on occasion.

        • Laguerre

          link? an Israeli one, I suppose. Qur’an quotations don’t mean a lot. Better quote the old testament which repeatedly tells Israel to slaughter the ancestors of the Palestinians.

          • Tom Welsh

            We really ought to bite the bullet and admit the truth: the Jewish, Christian, and Muslim scriptures, while agreeing about many matters, are in violent and absolute contradiction about others.

            Jews and Muslims consider the Christian belief that Jesus is the son of God to be blasphemy. Talmudic doctrine declares that Jesus’ fate is to be immersed eternally in boiling excrement. Muslims respect Jesus as a great prophet, but absolutely deny that he is God or related to God.

            According to Talmudic and rabbinical authority, Jews are the only humans to have souls; all gentiles are inferior (if not actually subhuman). Christians mostly believe that only they can go to heaven after death (although they and others can go to hell). I am not sure about Muslim doctrine, but I think it is similar in that only good Muslims qualify for eternal life in heaven.

            All those contradictory and mutually incompatible beliefs could perhaps be smoothed over by good manners – provided that the believers in the several religions are prepared to tolerate each other.

            But there are some issues that cannot be smoothed over. Notably the ownership, or responsibility for, Jerusalem and the Al-Aqsa Mosque which occupies the site of the ancient Jewish Temple, also revered by many Christians. Either the mosque remains in the hands of Muslims, or the Temple is rebuilt – necessitating the demolition of the mosque. A powerful Jewish movement wishes to rebuild the Temple, which would be practically feasible now that Israel has rejected previous agreements and taken over the whole of Jerusalem – with the enthusiastic support of the US and allied governments.

            Something is going to have to give. I for one hope that the matter can be settled peaceably, rather than by the extinction of the human species.

          • Stevie Boy

            The issue of the temple mount is never going to be solved if it depends on compromise, respect and agreements between two groups who consider everyone else to be essentially subhuman and/or second class members of the human race.
            Might be a tad radical but a small tactical nuke dropped on Jerusalem would probably help.

        • Bayard

          That’s not exactly an avowed aim, is it?, more like a prophesy such as you might find in the Bible, which is full of things like that.

          • Pears Morgaine

            Plenty of links online direct from Hamas and the UN if you want to look them up and far from not meaning a lot the Qur’an is regarded as the word of god so immutable; something which must be obeyed.

            There’s always going to be denial from those whose are so anti-west they see refuse to see any fault in anyone who stands in opposition, regardless of evidence.

          • Bayard

            “Plenty of links online direct from Hamas and the UN if you want to look them up ”

            Well, why didn’t you use them then, instead of the olde prophesye? You’re the one who’s trying to convince a sceptical audience, so the onus is on you to publish said links here, not to suggest others waste their time looking for them.

        • Tom Welsh

          Pears, I find your comment a little slanted.

          “They also want Israel ‘obliterated’ and reject any idea of a peaceful solution”.

          Surely the possibility of a peaceful solution depends on both sides agreeing to reject violence. Are the Israelis prepared to contemplate and discuss the dissolution of the tyrannical, apartheid Israeli state; or would they inevitably use violence to prevent it?

    • vin_ot

      I fear you will just be whistling into the wind from now on. The world needs no more evidence that Israel is an evil genocidal apartheid state. Shamelessly beyond the civilised pale.

    • Stevie Boy

      “Zionism’s avowed aim is not the defence of Israel but the extinction of all Gentiles. ”
      There, fixed it for you, you’re welcome.

    • John Main

      Exactly correct.

      Behind many calls for a cease fire and for the killing of innocents to cease, is the implied belief that only one of the belligerents has to stop. The other can continue.

      Hamas can stop this war, and the killing of innocents, by giving up its arms and surrendering its tunnel infrastructure for destruction by UN peacekeeping forces.

      But it won’t. And unless I haven’t noticed, nobody is calling for them to do that.

      • Bayard

        “Behind many calls for a cease fire and for the killing of innocents to cease, is the implied belief that only one of the belligerents has to stop. The other can continue.”

        In your mind, yes, but not in reality. In reality, a ceasefire is when both sides stop. Do try to stop writing such transparent nonsense.

        “Hamas can stop this war, and the killing of innocents, by giving up its arms and surrendering its tunnel infrastructure for destruction by UN peacekeeping forces.”

        Were innocent, unarmed Palestinians killed by Israeli forces before the tunnels were built? Yes they were, which rather suggests that statement, too, is a figment of your imagination. It is abundantly clear from what the Israeli politicians and military themselves say, that they are bent on revenge and Hamas surrendering isn’t going to stop that, just make it easier for them. To paraphrase your fellow Zionist, Tdg, ““There may be many here who wish that the Palestinians just lined themselves up for slaughter,”

    • Bayard

      “Hamas’s avowed aim is not the liberation of Palestine but the extinction of all Jews. ”

      You’d be a bit more convincing (well, you could hardly be less) if you could cite chapter and verse where their articles of association, or whatever they call it, actually says this. I have seen various Israeli documents that call for the removal of the Palestinians from the “river to the sea”, so let’s see the Hamas equivalent.

      “Their incursion into Israel had no military objective, merely a genocidal one.”

      So that’s why 50% of those killed were military, or is half the Israeli population in the armed forces?

      • Casual Observer

        Good point! And without wanting to glorify or offer support to a proscribed group (Needed disclaimer ?) the military element of the Hamas attack was remarkably successful, with the biggest single casually count for the IDF since possibly 73, and many IDF prisoners, including a Major General, in the Hamas bag.

        As for the ‘River to the Sea’ slogan that seems to have gained traction of late, it is my understanding that the two blue stripes on the flag of Israel had some symbolic meaning with regard to rivers ?

        • Tom Welsh

          Just when, in this “free country”, did unelected officials arrogate the right to designate anyone they wish “a proscribed group” and then forbid “free citizens of a democratic country” to say what they think about such people?

          And how can there possibly be any free political discussion at all under such circumstances? We are allowed to praise the UK, the USA, Israel, NATO, and (to a certain extent) the EU; but we are forbidden on pain of criminal penalties to say anything appreciative, understanding, or even balanced about some others.

          Two assumptions are entirely unjustified and should be rejected. First, that the government has the right to constrain or forbid free speech about any people or organisations whatsoever; and second, that government should be allowed to designate any people or organisations as “terrorist”. Especially as the US and UK governments are among the vilest and most destructive practitioners of terrorism ever.

          “1984” has arrived silently and by devious routes, but it is unquestionably here.

          • Bayard

            I think you will find that the government has always been so patronising because it has always, largely, been a government of the middle classes and that is their attitude towards those below them socially. Socialism, as practised by the Labour Party, is rotten with such patronising attitudes towards the very people it is supposed to be representing and supporting.

          • Casual Observer

            It never works, and almost always is counter productive.

            I’m old enough to remember when HMG decreed that we should be denied the opportunity to hear the words of the likes of Jerry Adams. The MSM of that age simply applied the words of an actor.

            Even with a news media that has morphed into a Goebbelesque parody of itself even 30 years ago, the deluge of information availability these days ensures that attempts at thought control will inevitably beckon disappointment.

            The Man on the Clapham Omnibus, as well as tending towards fair play, also eventually twigs when he’s being taken for a mug. 🙂

      • Liminal

        Yes, there is a very disturbing account on the Grayzone site by Max Blumenthal about the actual Israeli casualties from the audacious Hama’s assault – sourced from ISRAELI press and other witnesses. The Hamas militants clearly targeted military units and tripwire kibbutzes and the Israeli military went utterly berserk in response, using Apache gunships and tanks against Hamas and their own citizens alike. Warning of disturbing image included.

        • Bayard

          “the Israeli military went utterly berserk in response, using Apache gunships and tanks against Hamas and their own citizens alike. ”

          However, that did result in an impressive number of dead Israelis, even if it wasn’t the 1300 figure that has been bandied about.

      • Tom Welsh

        “So that’s why 50% of those killed were military, or is half the Israeli population in the armed forces?”

        As I remember, the official Israeli government line is that every single Israeli citizen is de facto in the armed forces. That’s why it’s so hard to accept complaints about the killing of “innocent civilians”.

        That’s the hell of invading a country, stealing most of the territory, and killing everyone who resists. Next thing you know, you are “surrounded by hostile foreigners”.

        Who knew?

      • Tom Welsh

        It is an old trick to point to calls for the removal of Israelis from certain land, or for the dissolution of the Israeli state, and claim that they imply the death of anyone.

        If a tenant refuses to pay the rent, he may be expelled from the house he has occupied. That is usually a non-violent process. Of course, if the tenant then arms himself with weapons and persists in using them against those who try to remove him, matters may escalate. But that is his choice, his fault and his responsibility.

        In the case of Israel, its citizens have never paid any rent; nor did they ever offer to sign a lease. They just walked in, took everything, and killed anyone who resisted. It is eminently reasonable to ask them to leave; and if they refuse, to apply whatever degree of force proves necessary to get them to do so.

        At the very least, it is reasonable to ask for the dissolution of the Israeli state and its replacement by a government of Palestine that treats all its inhabitants equally and decently as first-class citizens. The current regime arrogantly assumes that only Jewish Israelis can be first-class citizens – a position that spits in the face of all international law and human rights.

        • Bayard

          “It is an old trick to point to calls for the removal of Israelis from certain land, or for the dissolution of the Israeli state, and claim that they imply the death of anyone.”

          It is an equally old trick to imply that reform to the Israeli state is the same as its abolition. An Israel that functioned like a normal European state, where all were (relatively) equal under the law could easily be an Israel that stretched “from the river to the sea”. It wouldn’t be the same Israel as it is today, but it would still be Israel.

          • Stevie Boy

            I believe it’s the case (?) that, before the UK (primarily) conspired with the zionists to grab Palestine and illegally set up the ‘state of Israel’, the indigenous Jews then in Palestine lived in relative harmony with the majority Palestinians. That all changed when all the rascist, rabid, right wing eastern europeans and americans moved in. Essentially, the West rounded up all the unwanted, second rate thugs they could find and stuck them in Palestine – and here we are.

    • Tom Welsh

      “There may be many here who wish, following a well-established historical tradition, that Jews just lined themselves up for slaughter…”

      Please note the weasel words “there may be…” In fact, I am pretty sure that there are not.

      • John Main

        I’ve read most of the posts on here and I am pretty sure there are.

        The general tenor of the dialogue on here is that Israel must cease to exist. That is in agreement with the avowed intent of many of Israel’s neighbours. The execution of that intention effectively means that nearly 9.5 million people must choose between slaughter or becoming refugees in Europe, the Americas, Australia, etc.

        Like everybody else, I don’t have any answers. But it doesn’t help when the harsh facts of the reality can’t or won’t be acknowledged.

        • Cabbage

          Palestine is under occupation. Everybody needs equal rights from river to sea, in other words, the whole of Palestine needs equal rights for all occupants, including people who now live within the parts of Palestine occupied in 1948.

          An end to Apartheid means the perpetrators of crimes against humanity will need to be held to account.
          The full right of return of the Palestinian refugees and restitution for the deprivation of their property.

          That is indeed a call for the fundamental reimagining of occupied Palestine, into a modern secular pluralistic democracy where Palestinian Jews and Palestinian Christians, and Palestinian Muslims, and Palestinian atheists all enjoy absolute equality and justice.

  • A C Bruce

    British politicians accepted bribes from a foreign government to turn a blind eye to ongoing mass murders committed by that foreign state.

    You would think that would be a crime, wouldn’t you? Not in foul Britain it isn’t.

    May they rot in hell.

  • AG

    just to update: German open letter condemning the alleged silence on antisemitism in Germany.
    (Corbyn all over again?)
    150 known but mostly lesser known (but that means nothing in itself) writers and authors have signed.

    We again witness completely divided worlds.
    They at least from the letter are completely unaware of the bigger picture.

    And in fact they draw parallels to URK/RU but turn things onto their head.


    Not a single word about war crimes, about genocide (or at least the danger of it to make it easier for these folks to get into a dicussion) no word of the UN callings, resolutions etc.

  • glenn_nl

    Any Questions’ on Radio 4 had a series of politicians lining up to praise Israel’s nobility and repeatedly refer to its rights, while saying ‘Hamas’ about every third word. It did not sound as if the audience were with them.

    On ‘Any Answers’ – the ‘phone-in section afterwards – about half the callers appeared to support Israel and dismissed any talk of a cease-fire until Hamas was either destroyed or surrendered (which is actually the same thing), and all hostages released.

    In “The BBC : myth of a public service” by Tom Mills, the author wrote about our invasion of Iraq in 2003, and how the BBC had to set up scores of extra lines for the ‘phone-in.

    This was to enable the producers to pick out the occasional pro-war call that came out of a vast majority of anti-war callers, so they could make it appear that as many people were for the war as against it. Doubtless they did the same thing again today.

    This is what the BBC calls ‘balance’.

    • Goose

      Tory ministers have apparently been hauling BBC bosses in, to apply pressure over their coverage. Rigging audiences and phone-ins for political shows, with relatively small audiences, is an easy solution. Unfortunately the UK has become that kind of country.

      This isn’t a conspiracy theory. The BBC has previously been caught out rigging Scottish Question Time programmes, in favour of unionists.

    • Casual Observer

      Interesting. One can understand the Any Answers part given that the Hasbara network must at present be working its socks off. The politician aspect is more worrying, given that politics requires one to have a developed sense of which way the wind is likely to blow, or possibly an ability to smell out the view of voters ? Maybe the political class have had their olfactory abilities denuded by the recent lurgy ?

  • Bp

    As an ignorant and naive 10-year old schoolboy in 1948 I remember listening to the radio and sharing in the general sense of satisfaction as the members of the UN voted into being the the new State of Israel. However over the past 75 years I have watched, first with a growing sense of unease, then with dismay, and finally with horror, as Israel has displayed so many of the characteristics of the nazis from whose persecution they were escaping. Indeed many of its leaders have openly boasted of their determination to recreate the Greater Israel to which they feel entitled, and if this means committing acts of genocide and clearing away all the original inhabitants of Palestine and bringing general mayhem and murder to their neighbours throughout the Middle East and beyond, then too bad. They are, after all, “God’s Chosen People”!

    The current genocidal action in Gaza is a blot on humanity. That the United States and the UK, together with their fellow travellers in the MSM, are actually applauding it is an absolute disgrace – though given the equanimity with which they have watched and actively tolerated such previous activities it is perhaps not surprising. I am ashamed of my government and of the vast majority of MPs who are going along with this. I cannot understand how any decent person, regardlless of their views on Hamas, can believe that the current level of killing and destruction within Gaza is justifiable. Furthermore the dangers of a much wider conflagration in the Middle East must surely be as obvious to them as they are to the rest of us. Why are they so in thrall to Israel that they are willing to betray their responsibilities as MPs by failing to demand an immediate ceasefire in Gaza? Instead they demonstrate a total lack of morality and of humanity. They bring shame upon our country and they disgrace themselves.

  • Jack

    Israel’s cut of communication is just another proof what a truly calculating, evil, sadistic, racist regime this is – they are driven my fanatical ethnic hatred.
    Palestinians now cannot call ambulances nor can media show the crimes being commited by Israel right now.
    Most likely the death toll would top 10k before the weekend is over.

    UN human rights chief warns of ‘potential for thousands more civilians to die’
    “Given the manner in which military operations have been conducted until now, in the context of the 56-year-old occupation, I am raising alarm about the possibly catastrophic consequences of large-scale ground operations in Gaza and the potential for thousands more civilians to die,” the UN high commissioner for human rights said.
    More than 7,700 Palestinians have so far been killed in Israel’s relentless bombardment of Gaza in the past three weeks.

    Musk has offered Starlink to be set up for Gaza but only for humanitarian agencies.

  • Republicofscotland

    Al Jazeera news reporting that the IDF are now in Northern Gaza, supposedly fighting Hamas in a door to door style action. Al Jazeera also says that the Zionists have created an absolute blackout in the ability for info to get in and out on what’s happening whilst the IDF are in Gaza.

    No doubt the US and the dis-united kingdom will have special forces on the ground aiding and and advising the Zionists.

  • Goose

    How impressive is Spain’s acting Minister of Social Rights, Ione Belarra? A lone voice of sanity in a sea of evil, corrupt Western politicians.

    If all other European leaders followed her suggestions: by breaking off official relations with Israel; expel their ambassadors; cease all weapon supplies and impose sanctions. That evil old toad, Netanyahu, would be booted from office, and there’d be a two-state solution delivered within a year. It really is as simple as that.

  • Fat Jon

    I’m afraid this is what happens when those with a new world agenda and billions of £££/$$$ use the security services and right wing media to character assassinate and harass anyone who appears to be close to gaining power on the left.

    Unfortunately, their easy option was to use antisemitism as a way to cut down people such as Ken Livingstone and Jeremy Corbyn, resulting in the bolstering of Israel’s confidence that they can do anything they like, and no one dare criticise, or their characters will also be burned on the bonfire of anti-semitic hate speech.

    Sadly, the evil genie has been let out of the bottle and no one is going to get it back in again without a massive escalation of war in the Middle East; and even that probably will not work because those with the new world agenda have factored this escalation into their plans already.

    • Goose

      They can’t win. All they’ll do is make the whole Muslim world identify with Hamas, totally self-defeating.

      And, I think the political generation that is uncritically loyal to Israel, in the US, is dying out. Who are the next US leaders? Kamala Harris? Pete Buttigieg? Both are about as popular as a fart in a lift. And the US GoP right are completely nuts. The US is headed for serious political strife.

  • Peter Mo

    The London march looked massive. Like to know from veterans from the Iraq war protests just how it compared. Surely more than 300,000.
    Seemed an inappropriate location for such a large protest and why was the march stopped several times on the bridge? Could have ended in disaster.

  • Jack

    Best summary of arab leaders disgraceful stance:

    A message from a Palestinian was read out on Turkish television:
    “Tell Muslim countries not to offer funeral prayers for us. We are alive and you are dead.”

    Most likely (many) arab states normalization with Israel past years have included a greenlight to bring regime change in Gaza.
    Have any arab leader even used such obvious words as ethnic cleansing and genocide in their feeble protests against Israel?

  • Crispa

    A useful (here slightly edited) summary of the situation and basis for taking up a position comes from Russian blogger “Colonel Cassad” on
    “—it is important to remember that despite the legitimate struggle for the rights of oppressed Palestinians, Hamas also uses terrorist methods of warfare in its practice. This is so that you don’t get the impression that there are cute little girls in white gloves. But when we compare the clash of terrorist methods with the methods of apartheid and genocide, the latter are what makes Israel many times worse and worse than anything that Hamas does”.

  • alexey

    While this is not a moment to make introspection the central subject, there is a profoundly different “feeling” to waking up in the morning knowing there is a genocide taking place, right now, and while I slept. And our governments, our opposition, our international institutions seem to want to cheer it along. I can’t quite compute it; it’s new, it’s as unpleasant as the depression that comes with a relationship breakup; but it is singularly different. You don’t know who to reach out to, or even if going about a day with the family is “a thing”.

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