Origins of SARS cov2


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  • #73982 Reply
    SA

    Clark

    Some of the memes in the Bulletin of the Atomic Scientists are somewhat reminiscent of those repeated by CTs, in that Daszak who has devoted a lot of energy to predicting pandemics and research on viruses, is somewhat carrying out a major coverup in plain sight. It goes without saying that top scientists in a field have a vested interest in getting resources for their research but I am not sure whether that means they lose all scruples. So we now have the hate figure of Daszak and also he manages to terrorize anyone who disagrees with him, and there is therefore a massive conspiracy of silence engendered by fear of retaliation. This is what the first part of this article you have linked to says.

    But particularly galling is this particular paragraph which I have to quote in full for context:

    “On December 9, 2019, before the outbreak of the pandemic became generally known, Daszak gave an interview in which he talked in glowing terms of how researchers at the Wuhan Institute of Virology had been reprogramming the spike protein and generating chimeric coronaviruses capable of infecting humanized mice.

    “And we have now found, you know, after 6 or 7 years of doing this, over 100 new SARS-related coronaviruses, very close to SARS,” Daszak says around minute 28 of the interview. “Some of them get into human cells in the lab, some of them can cause SARS disease in humanized mice models and are untreatable with therapeutic monoclonals and you can’t vaccinate against them with a vaccine. So, these are a clear and present danger….”

    Daszak: Well I think … coronaviruses — you can manipulate them in the lab pretty easily. Spike protein drives a lot of what happen with coronavirus, in zoonotic risk. So you can get the sequence, you can build the protein, and we work a lot with Ralph Baric at UNC to do this. Insert into the backbone of another virus and do some work in the lab. So you can get more predictive when you find a sequence. You’ve got this diversity. Now the logical progression for vaccines is, if you are going to develop a vaccine for SARS, people are going to use pandemic SARS, but let’s insert some of these other things and get a better vaccine.”

    I have highlighted a passage which is a misquote because the article of the bulletin gives a link to the interview and at around 30 minutes Daszak says “… people aren’t going to use pandemic SARS”. So what he is saying is that you use a backbone of another virus which you can limit either with antibodies or in other ways rather than using the actual manipulated virus – a completely different meaning. This is manipulation and is found elsewhere and is similar to those smoking-gun sensational declarations by CTS.

    There are other assumptions in this article and you would really have to be an expert to detect this sort of manipulation.

    But let us look at what is being implied here: Scientists who have devoted a lot of energy to prevent epidemics, knowingly cause one through carelessness in a lab escape. They cover this up, thereby delaying some vital pieces of information that could save the world, and in so doing cause millions of people to die, in order to save their reputations. They are aided and abetted by governments of different colours and interests, but who cares, they are mad scientists who want this sense of power and control. Sounds familiar?

    #74004 Reply
    Clark

    SA, I agree that’s a very significant typo, and most unfortunate that it seems to have got into an echo chamber. If I had more time I’d write to the Bulletin etc; they’re reputable publications so I expect they’d publish corrections.

    However, if Daszak dislikes the accusations about him he has a very simple remedy which is to open his database of bat viruses; science is supposed to be about full disclosure of data, is it not? Instead he has made matters worse for himself by organising that letter making smears of conspiracy theory, and pretending to have no conflict of interest. Daszak could also mitigate the rampant politicisation and China-bashing – the US already has a copy of the genetic database that got taken off-line in China, but Daszak holds the publication rights over it.

    Why hasn’t he released it? Maybe he merely thinks it’s worth a lot of money, in which case it’s up to him whether he thinks it’s worth all the accusations. But with so many dead and so much economic hardship, he has no right telling anyone to shut up about it.

    #74903 Reply
    josh R

    here’s a new one to chew over,
    I’ll leave it to people with more time on their hands to assure me it’s all bollox.

    Corona Ausschuss – Ausweichkanal: Sitzung 60: Die Zeit ist kein flacher Kreis (YouTube)

    Those crazy conspiracists are bleeting on about some patent professional ranting about Corona patents & Fauci, PCR as a publicity rather than clinical tool & the fraud of variants?!?

    We need to robustly challenge this murderous attack on our intellects. Together we can do it!!

    #74908 Reply
    ET

    That video has been posted. It seems there have been many patents especially in Veterinary medicine. The origins of Sars-Cov-2 is still inconclusive.

    #74910 Reply
    Clark

    I’ve listened to the bloke in the bow tie for a few minutes. He makes no clear distinction between ‘coronavirus’ as a family of viruses, and ‘coronavirus’ used colloquially since 2020 to mean specifically SARS-CoV-2. Yes, there must be loads of patents associated with coronaviruses, going back decades. At Wikipedia, there are many references to scientific papers concerning attempts to make vaccines against various coronaviruses.

    I can’t be bothered to listen to such mush. If he has seen a patent with precisely the sequence of the SARS-CoV-2 spike protein, could a believer please just post a link to that specific patent so that I can check for myself? That would be significant, but I’ve followed one of these wild goose chases before and it was false.

    Let’s be clear; this is conspiracy theory. Why? Because as soon as the genetic sequence of SARS-CoV-2 was published early in 2020, the virology, immunology and genomics communities started searching for previous occurrences of the sequence, and finding its closest known relatives. If Google had immediately presented twenty examples from registered patents, it would have been all over the scientific literature unless the vast majority of those scientists were conspiring to conceal it.

    #75353 Reply
    michael norton

    The rulers of China are on edge after the U.S.A. spy agencies somehow managed to secure a giant catalogue of genetic information from the Wuhan Institute of Virology.
    It is thought that access to a huge amount of genetic information could finally reveal the origin to COVID-19, according to CNN.

    I have always thought that the virus came from the Level Four Laboratory in Wuhan.
    “the simplest explanation is usually the best one.”

    #75371 Reply
    Clark

    As it’s a “spy agency” we’ll probably never know where they got the genetic database, if they’re not merely bluffing. All we’ll have is the story they wish to tell and whatever snippets they release – chosen to support whatever political objectives have been decided behind the scenes.

    Most likely they just secretly bought a copy from Peter Daszak of New York Ecohealth Alliance, who commissioned and funded the research at WIV and therefore hold the ownership rights to it.

    Secrecy kills. Transparency now!

    #75385 Reply
    michael norton

    Clark, I am not sure how many Level Four Laboratories there are in the World, I thought I heard China is opening a second?
    Is the main purpose in most of them, to mess about chopping up dangerous virus.
    Is there anything useful, other than war or threat of war, that these places do?

    #75387 Reply
    Clark

    This was a civilian programme. The claim was that by trying animal viruses in humanised mice they could predict which ones were likely to spill over to humans, and prepare, with treatments and vaccines. The motivations were the original SARS, MERS, Ebola etc.

    Backfired a bit, I’d say.

    There are quite a lot of these BSL4 labs all over the world. But part of the problem at WIV was that some of the work was being done at just BSL Level 2.

    You can order the humanised mice over the internet. You can have bits of DNA synthesized by providing the genetic sequence, and the company will post them to you; transfer them to your own cell cultures at home. There’s a whole hobbyist amateur genetics community working in their own kitchens. I kid you not.

    #75650 Reply
    michael norton

    [ Transferred from the Westminster thread by the mods. ]


    I don’t think you could make this stuff up.

    Marburg Black Hemorrhagic Fever

    1967 Marburg virus outbreak in West Germany was an outbreak of Marburg hemorrhagic fever initial among laboratory workers who were exposed to imported African green monkeys or their tissues while conducting research. A total of 32 people (laboratory workers and their contacts) became sick.

    Yet it is in Marburg that BIONTECH has its laboratory.
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-58186032

    #75677 Reply
    michael norton

    Just reading this gives me the shakes
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marburg_virus_disease

    So it seems that monkeys or bats are routinely chopped up to get at viruses.

    It is becoming a little, little, more clear that very dangerous diseases strike in or near laboratories that are looking at these vectors. Is there world oversight?

    #75682 Reply
    michael norton

    Danish scientist Peter Ben Embarek, who led the international mission to Wuhan, said a lab employee infected while taking samples in the field falls under one of the likely hypotheses as to how the virus passed from bats to humans.

    He told the Danish public channel TV2 that the suspect bats were not from the Wuhan region and the only people likely to have approached them were workers from the Wuhan labs.

    Ben Embarek previously acknowledged in an interview with Science magazine that “politics was always in the room with us” during the Wuhan trip, which was mired in delays after China initially stalled approval for the international researchers’ entry.
    https://www.france24.com/en/asia-pacific/20210813-china-rejects-who-call-for-renewed-probe-into-origins-of-covid-19

    So, it does not have to have been a leak from the Level Four Lab in Wuhan.
    It could though, be persons contracted to collect bats in Bat Caves in a different part of China, who became the zero people?

    #75688 Reply
    ET

    “Just reading this gives me the shakes”

    Just to give you some more shakes there a whole host of such Viral hemorrhagic fever diseases. God forbid one of these ever gets a chance to get going. It almost happened with Ebola. Gives perspective on the world’s tragically inadequate response to Sars-Cov-2. Comapred to these diseases covid is relatively benign.

    #75698 Reply
    michael norton

    Most marburgvirus infections were repeatedly associated with people visiting natural caves or mines.
    Bats are good spreaders of diseases. I think they are one of the few mammals that inhabit all continents except Antarctica. I think bats co-evolved with the Angiosperm rain forests. They are riddled with viruses.
    Bats are almost certainly fine, if you leave them alone.
    Some years ago a registered bat handler, in Kent I think, caught rabies from a bat and he died.

    #75703 Reply
    ET

    I worked in Queensland many moons ago for a while. Every evening in the summer time hundreds of thousands of fruit bats would emerge towards sunset and take to the skies. It was quite a spectacular sight. Still is from this video.
    Also the cane toads were just as numerous after heavy rains.

    #75791 Reply
    Clark

    Michael Norton, August 13 at 09:17 (above):

    “It is becoming a little, little, more clear that very dangerous diseases strike in or near laboratories that are looking at these vectors. Is there world oversight?”

    No, not that I’ve heard of:

    https://thebulletin.org/2021/06/how-to-make-biomedical-research-and-biosafety-labs-less-dangerous-and-more-ethical-post-covid-19/

    There is a weakness in this biosafety regime, however. There are no surveillance systems of laboratory-acquired infections and, if they occur, there are no mandatory mechanisms in place to notify state and local health officials about those infections. …laboratory-acquired infections fall through the cracks in government surveillance systems. …without good surveillance systems at regional, national, and international levels, it’s difficult to know the extent or severity of the problem until a disaster strikes. […] Until COVID-19, society had largely abdicated research funding decision-making to the scientific community with little, if any, oversight or input by humanists, ethicists, or public health professionals who might not share the scientists’ views.

    At the international level, the World Health Organization should work with the Biological Weapons Convention (BWC) Implementation Support Unit to create a laboratory-acquired infection surveillance system based on data collected and reported at the national levels. Biomedical research is inherently dual use; it can provide society great benefits, but it can also be used for ill. The collaboration between WHO and the BWC would send the message that the international community takes these issues seriously.

    #76161 Reply
    michael norton

    A disinformation campaign claiming that the Covid-19 virus originated from an American military base in Maryland has gained popularity in China ahead of the release of a U.S.A. intelligence report on the virus origins.
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-58273322
    Uncle Joe ordered a 90-day probe into whether the Covid-19 virus came from a lab accident or emerged from human contact with an infected animal.
    But now as the report is due to be released, China has gone on the offensive. In the past few weeks, Chinese sources have been amplifying a baseless claim that Covid-19 was made in the U.S.A.

    China have not covered themselves in glory. They are keeping secrets, secret.

    Even if the Chinese Regime have been so brilliant at ruthlessly suppressing the virus in China, they must of heard their is a pandemic going on in most of the World?
    You would have thought they would want to help the World find out the origin?

    #76379 Reply
    michael norton

    In a new report published in the journal Nature, WHO scientists have warned their inquiries have “stalled” – and the damage caused by further delays could be irreparable.

    As so many, many people have been killed or badly damaged by the virus, it would seem important to do the utmost to discover where this all started?

    #76390 Reply
    ET

    How COVID-19’s origins were obscured, by the East and the West.
    Worth a read, the article charts the timeline and individuals involved in the evolution from the lab leak theory being a nuts conspiracy theory to where we are now. In my opinion, we will never get the full facts about its origin. Whether it was a lab leak or natural evolution it is still with us either way and needs dealing with.

    #77202 Reply
    Clark

    ET, thanks for that link. From a link within it to a Twitter thread by Alexandros Marinos, it seems that certain investors were tipped off early on:

    https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/1404374212907700228.html

    One more piece: Farrar had a call with a group of money managers Jan 31: “In the 20 or 30 years I’ve been involved in emerging infections, I’ve never seen anything that has been as fast or as rapidly moving and dynamic as this”

    The speed of spread is really the defining feature of SARS-CoV-2, more so than its fatality rate.

    Globally, covid deaths have been and continue to be under-counted by around a factor of three:

    https://www.economist.com/briefing/2021/05/15/there-have-been-7m-13m-excess-deaths-worldwide-during-the-pandemic

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