- This topic has 1,202 replies, 1 voice, and was last updated 4 months ago by Dave.
January 8, 2021 at 01:40 #64504Clark
Hiya Brian; thanks for the vid and good to see you. Squonk’s OK now the trouble in Washington has calmed down.
Re. “Clap for the NHS / Heroes”; it’s the sort of thing that puts everyone automatically in the wrong, whether they support it or reject it. It is unavoidably divisive. As supposed support for the workers it is paltry, an insult by being so obviously a propaganda ploy, but to abstain can only look mean. It’s an embarrassment. And yes, the new militaristic echo just makes it worse.January 8, 2021 at 01:44 #64505N_
Good news: Clap for Heroes yesterday seems to have been a bit of failure. Or at least those who are behind it (see below) look as though they will have to change it a lot.
I am hoping that the underlying reason is a sense of growing unease among working class employees of the NHS, such as nurses, about all the Covid-related absolute bullsh*t that is going down. Maybe some of them are even sensing the ongoing build-up to a Malthusian “cleansing”. If that doesn’t give them the collywobbles, nothing will.
From this perspective the idea of “Don’t clap for them; just give them more pay” would be a result of the trade union leaders having been called in by big business and government to help out. Please DON’T let this be the angle from which you oppose “Clap for Heroes”, because it’s a trap.
(Yes, this is how propaganda works in fast-moving situations. You are seeing how control over opinion is actually wielded. Shifts like this can say a HUGE amount about how the rulers actually rule, about divisions and strategy and dynamic, but you need to have worked out a fair bit about all of that first in order to understand it I think. Most critics understand little about this, because they are too busy deploying their petty bourgeois idea that bad management is some kind of big reason for stuff, when it isn’t. A good book to start with is Edward Bernays’s “Propaganda”. Bernays practically invented modern marketing and knew what he was talking about.)
I am all in favour of nurses getting more pay, but seriously that goal or demand should NOT be the main issue right now. It’s not as if they’re starving.
In fact if they are given more pay that will be advance warning (if any were needed) that they will be given some orders to do some very dirty stuff indeed. When you see how they are increasingly being presented to the majority who do not work in the “health” sector as some kind of soldiers or at least “home guard” force, be very afraid.
Anyone sceptical of the idea that the unions are helping out big business and the government should first try to wrap their heads around who the backers of “Together” actually are. Backers include Google, the global company that is deeply involved with the NHS’s Covid-19 “app”, and Aviva, one of the “Big 4” providers of private health insurance in Britain. When interests like that tell you to all stand together ritually clapping for the state’s heroic hygiene service…think a bit before saying “yes sir”.January 8, 2021 at 02:30 #64506BrianFujisan
No..You will See VERY LITTLE Of Ths in Scotland
On an OT .January 8, 2021 at 12:23 #64521N_
How likely is that the vast majority of the population in Britain etc. may have already contracted SARS-CoV2?
Some may pooh-pooh this idea, but wait a minute…
A negative antibody test provides NO indication that a person hasn’t already contracted the virus and beaten it off. This is because they may have an immune system that manage to kill the virus with its “first line of defence” without calling out any “specialised” antibodies. Therefore the published figures for “cases” do not refute the hypothesis.
It is a glaring fact that the authorities aren’t lifting much of a finger to spread information about how to keep your immune system in good shape. If they were serious about preventing deaths from this kind of coronavirus (i.e. SARS) in a pandemic, they would do precisely that.
Note that we live in conditions where “flu vaccines” are promoted all over the place – by Tesco, by the government, by local “GP” quacks, etc. Only a moron takes a flu vaccine every year like a compliant little sheep. Not very many people at all know about how to reduce your risk of falling ill with the rhinoviruses that cause most cases of the common cold, the coronaviruses that cause about 1 in 6 cases, and the flu-type viruses that cause flu. (Those who want to start informing themselves, start with vitamin C. But for goodness’ sake don’t buy the tablets that contain artificial sweetener, OK? Try orange juice.)
It is an admitted fact that black British and Pakistani British people have died “with Covid” in larger proportions than white British people, and also that working class people especially if working in “insecure” jobs are more “at risk”. (The death rate too probably varies a lot by “socioeconomic group”, i.e. class, but I have found no documentation to that effect – too touchy a subject, presumably. But it’s admitted that black and Asian people in Britain are dying in this pandemic in proportionally greater numbers than white people).
It must be true that the TESTING network (its protocols, logistics, laboratories, and communications) featured in the pandemic “exercises” such as Event 201 as well as in other planning.
Now put all the above together.
What I’m suggesting is that if you haven’t bothered keeping your immune system in good shape – whether you’re a couch potato or you’re somebody who “goes to the gym” to build up your muscles, which have little to do with your immune system – and then you fall ill for example with “seasonal flu”, then if you get any kind of medical attention whatsoever you had better WATCH OUT. Especially if you are black, South Asian, or working class…
* because the test when it comes back may well say you’re SARSCoV2 positive even if you aren’t;
* because your flu-type symptoms may get you “diagnosed” with “Covid” regardless, in which case don’t expect to get any proper contact with your family and so on, which is very important to keeping up people’s “will to live” when they are ill and makes them (slightly) less vulnerable to bullsh*t stitch-ups too;
* because if you’re in the hospital you may REALLY get hit by SARS-CoV2 (again and worse than before) because of a high viral load, and
* because if and when you catch the pneumonia which is so rife in hospitals, they may just kill you off. (If more people understood about “DNR”  and “QOLY” , there would be riots in the streets.)
1) DNR – “Do Not Resuscitate”
2) QOLY – “Quality of Life”. (I wouldn’t be at all surprised if “medical records” contain a number for this for almost everybody. The metric is calculated as in the following example: “10 years of 100% quality, followed by 5 years at 60% quality and 1 year at 20% quality, give this person a QOLY socre of (10 * 100%) + (5 * 60%) + (1 * 20%) years, equals 13.2 years. That’s how medics think of you. Vets think of pets in the same way – how long you’ll still be bringing your pet to them and how much money they think they will make out of you in that time.January 8, 2021 at 12:31 #64522N_
Don’t forget too that vegetarians on average live 8 years longer than flesheaters (9.5 years for men, 6.1 years for women). Obviously there are other variables involved too – no doubt about that – but still the statistic says an awful lot about how a healthy lifestyle can help you live much longer in this world in which there are loads of bacteria and viruses flying about all the time that in some cases kill people.January 8, 2021 at 14:13 #64525Clark
– “How likely is that the vast majority of the population in Britain etc. may have already contracted SARS-CoV2?”
Well, how fast are infections rising, followed by deaths? Would that be happening if there was widespread resistance or immunity?
– “A negative antibody test provides NO indication that a person hasn’t already contracted the virus and beaten it off. This is because they may have an immune system that manage to kill the virus with its “first line of defence” without calling out any “specialised” antibodies.”
Oh, you know all about this, do you? It’s the field you’ve studied and specialised in for a few decades, is it? Or are you just parroting Yeadon? ‘Cos you didn’t say any of it before Yeadon said it. Yeadon who said there could be no second wave, immediately before the second wave and its tens of thousands of deaths.January 8, 2021 at 14:17 #64526Clark
N_, your posts have been so full of hate for all and sundry, can I assume you’re spreading the covid denial conspiracy theory in the hope of killing off as many of your fellow humans as possible?
You’re always going on about some impending “cull” by our “masters”; psychological projection, possibly?January 8, 2021 at 15:44 #64529ET
“If more people understood about “DNR”  and “QOLY” , there would be riots in the streets.”
QALY and WELBY are imperfect attempts to quantify things that are pretty difficult to quantify. Mostly used in assessing cost effectiveness of interventions. It is a government’s job to ensure value for money where there are limited resources.
Charlie posted a link to a parliament committee discussion in this thread where these terms were invoked:
I have never seen QALY in any medical notes, not ever. As I have said before N_ you have a real issue with doctors which you demonstrate incessantly in your posts in many threads. I can assure you QALYs never come into individual patient care decisions. I am fairly sure that a large number of docs have never heard the term.
As for DNR orders. Many patients request this themselves. Think of an end stage cancer patient who does not want medics jumping on their chests to resuscitate when they know they are going to die very soon anyway. I think that the vast majority of the public is well aware of DNR orders and understand their place. Decisions relating to DNRs are made after discussion with patients where possible and family members. The most senior person on the medical team is involved as soon as practically possible.
Far from rioting I think most people in the UK would understand what a QALY is attempting to be and I am certain anyone who has had a relative with cancer or other end stage disease knows the place for DNRs.
As for flu vaccinations, I think you need to reassess your opinion. Prior to this pandemic the effects of the annual excess winter deaths was being addressed by the NHS. More and more hospitals and GP surgeries were emphasising hand hygiene, use of PPE dealing with suspected flu and recognising its role as a significant cause of death. Vaccination was encouraged in the vulnerable groups and latterly more broadly. Protocols were drawn up on caring for suspected flu patients in hospitals with more emphasis on isolations and PPE. It was moving in the right direction.
I note that the deaths from Respiratory causes other than covid are significantly down in 2020. I suspect because of the general anti-viral measures being adopted by more people.January 8, 2021 at 16:30 #64537Clark
New Age hippiedom is exceedingly ugly. Food prejudice, health prejudice, dismissal and wilful ignorance of science, moral relativism, and the incessant carping on about the “immune system”, of which they have less than rudimentary understanding. As an ideology it preaches that each adherent’s opinion is just as good as that of anyone who has studied a subject and practised in its field for a significant portion of their life. Mentally lazy, emotionally shallow, individualistic and uncaring; a very sad thing to have developed from the 1960s psychedelic movement and those brave activists who opposed the US devastation of Vietnam. Once subsumed by it, I’m proud now to have rejected it.January 8, 2021 at 17:41 #64542SA
Ten countries in the world account for 57 out of the 88 million cases of Covid-19 in the world that is 64% of cases. These top 10 include 5 of the G7 nations. The US alone accounts for a quarter of all cases. What do these statistics say?January 8, 2021 at 18:27 #64547ET
Made me go calculate that those top ten represent 31.6% of the worlds population which makes it even worse. Whatever it says it will be clouded (deliberately) by the inclusion of India, Russia, Turkey and Brazil in the top ten and no doubt SFA will be learned from it despite volumes being written about it. What it ought to be screaming is just how bad our decision making is and where our focus is.January 8, 2021 at 18:56 #64549SA
Also the worst daily deaths, over 1000, are UK, Mexico and US.January 8, 2021 at 23:12 #64554Clark
Brian, thanks for the Galileans application. I’ve never followed their changing positions over time; they move much faster than I thought.January 9, 2021 at 10:14 #64560SA
A new ‘wonder drug’ is emerging for the prophylaxis and treatment of Covid-19 according to some groups. The new component in this is Ivermectin, a well known antiparasitic medicine widely used to treat various diseases and widely available and cheap. There is in vitro evidence that it can be effective but the doses used are about 10X those used for treatment normally. Australian researchers swear by it and there is something called The FLCCC Alliance and many of the treatments suggested are in use in ITU units but some others not universally accepted. This group is now pushing forward their protocol, the upgraded version of which is Ivermectin . The newest protocol called MATH+ is on their website and the rationale for using Ivermectin is discussed above. The problem with this sort of approach is that which we saw before with chloroquine, is that there is a theoretical base for the effectiveness of the treatment, but in practice, there is little clinical effect, and to prove efficacy, patients need to be enrolled in properly conducted trials. I have posted this to draw attention to the possible controversy that this may now be highjacked by the conspiracists who will see this is suppression of effective cheap treatment which will render the vaccines obsolete. But of course big pharma are not interested!January 9, 2021 at 12:05 #64561Clark
Brian, thank you very much for the documentary you linked to; me and Steph watched it last night.
N_, have you watched it, and what did you think? Depending upon your initial reply, we could start another forum to discuss it as it is off-topic here, apart from background conspiracy theory that has intruded upon nearly all vital subjects for the past two decades.January 9, 2021 at 12:26 #64562Clark
SA, I hope this new treatment does work because the recent rise in the seven-day average death curve is steeper than ever before.
Updating my earlier prediction (#64441 above) with the latest seven day averages:
Current case numbers are now at least 2.34* times higher than reached before the November restrictions caused them to fall, so I predict that the death rate must rise to at least 2.34 times its averaged November peak, ie. over 1138 deaths per day, on average.
* 59,344 ÷ 25,331 = ~2.34
2.34 x 486 = ~1139
This figure is locked in by the pattern we have seen so far, even if infections stop rising immediately, so only new treatments, or depletion of the proportion vulnerable could change it. I suspect it’s an underestimate anyway.January 9, 2021 at 12:29 #64563Clark
PS: that’s a seven day average, meaning that there will soon be a week with around 8000 covid deaths.January 9, 2021 at 15:42 #64570N_
The royalist media say the “queen” has beeen vaccinated at her main castle.
Great PR there. God bless you, Ma’am.
Did they do it with a hallmarked silver needle passed along a line of male flunkeys wearing tights, smilingly watched over by the Archbishop of Canterbury carrying a sprig from the Glastonbury Thorn?
And incidentally, how did this year’s Epiphany service go on 6 January in the Chapel Royal at St James’s Palace? Traditionally the “queen” receives gold, frankincense, and myrrh at it, as if she was Jesus Christ.
Ah, what “service to the nation”.
For bonus points: who is the “queen’s” health insurance policy with? And who pays for it? Something tells me the medics who treat her at London’s leading private hospital, the King Edward VII, don’t do it for free.January 9, 2021 at 16:03 #64572glenn_uk
Can’t Mystic N_eg have his own channel, so the monotonous droning of idle supposition, witless prattle, negativity and self congratulation can be more easily skipped by everyone else? Mystic N_eg never deigns to converse with anyone (apart from his great self!), so why bother putting it on a public channel at all? Surely it would be more seemly for such self-pleasuring to be undertaken in private.
I don’t know why you get upset about his stupidity, Clark, and his sheer lack of knowledge on subjects far and wide on which he supposedly dispenses wisdom – cringing embarrassement for his lack of self awareness would be a better placed emotion.January 9, 2021 at 16:06 #64573N_
The “queen”, the billionairess who has also been a lifelong poster girl for other big business interests than her own, reckons the current lockdown in Britain might be a bit on the pinko liberal, wishy-washy, trendy-teacher, “too much carrot and not enough stick” side.
If you read the body text of that article in the Independent, it doesn’t actually say that. It doesn’t attribute the idea that the lockdown is “too lax” to the monarch. It attributes it to a behavioural psychologist (yes) at UCL, called Susan Michie, who sits on SAGE. But the headline (always more important than the body text) reads as follows: “Covid news — live: Queen vaccinated at Windsor Castle and fears lockdown ‘too lax’ to beat variant”.
“Queen vaccinated at Windsor Castle and fears lockdown ‘too lax’ to beat variant“.
How does that read?
Meanwhile, outside the immediate world lived in by her majesty, her family, her archbishops, her stockbrokers, her art treasure custodians, and even her lords and ladies in waiting, 44 branches of Poundland are closing, leading to large-scale price inflation for many among the poorest in Britain.
Michie advises the WHO on “Covid-19 and behaviour”. I wonder whether she was involved in Event 201.
She also chairs the UK Food Standard Agency’s Social Sciences Advisory Committee. Read that and think about it, anybody who thinks it’s insane to believe food shortages are coming.January 9, 2021 at 16:43 #64574N_
Some people are getting vaccinated who have already had “Covid-19” (take this to mean they exhibited the collection of flu type symptoms associated with infection with SARS-CoV2 and they were also tested as SARS-CoV2 positive) and recovered – i.e. their antibodies already fought SARS-CoV2 off. What idiots! What would they do if the government told them to stick their head in the gas oven? Best understand what the word “vaccine” means before you stick your arm out for officials and say “SIR! Reporting for my injection, SIR!”January 9, 2021 at 17:16 #64575glenn_uk
The only idiot is you, N. Plenty of people had antibodies having had Covid-19 once, but then also got sick with Covid again. Antibodies alone DO NOT provide immunity. They wear off. They are not found to be effective enough in every case. Why don’t you wise up before talking about subjects on which you’re almost entirely ignorant? (Answer: the Dunning-Kruger effect)
Don’t bother having a shot if you don’t want one. But you really should stop calling people who have enough sense to be immunised mindlessly obedient, you insufferably pompous arse.January 9, 2021 at 17:26 #64577ET
@ Mystic N_eg
“Some people are getting vaccinated who have already had “Covid-19” (take this to mean they exhibited the collection of flu type symptoms associated with infection with SARS-CoV2 and they were also tested as SARS-CoV2 positive) and recovered”
Or perhaps they had very low oxygen levels, a dense white shadow in both lungs on their X-rays, a particular pattern of low platelets and specific white blood cells, and very high marker of clotting called D-Dimer. This is a clinical pattern doctors all over the world. Perhaps they are scared having had it and want to protect themselves as best they perceive they can.
There are studies from long before this pandemic showing people being reinfected with coronaviruses (the 4 causing common cold and endemic in the population) from 6 months to ten years later. It isn’t known if immunity is conferred by having become infected though there is some evidence that it does. There are also cases of reinfection. If immunity is conferred it isn’t known how long that will last. Of course this also applies to the vaccine. There are a lot of unknowns.January 9, 2021 at 23:18 #64586Clark
I cycled into Chelmsford today to shop for groceries. Lots of people about, busy; nothing like the Spring “lockdown”. One wise soul had brought three primary school age children with him to the CoOp; he masked up, they didn’t. Thanks, mister!
– “…fears lockdown ‘too lax’ to beat variant”
Flippantly – that looks likely to me.
1) It’s a shame, and literally fatally stupid, that this has become a matter of enforcement. In Taiwan, Singapore, South Korea etc. nearly everyone understood what needed to be done, and just did it. Many here may prefer the racist explanation that Asian foreigners are just compliant sheeple, but in fact, having had experience with SARS, they exercised social self restraint because they understood that it was right and sensible to do so.
I suppose that Europe and the US has so many antisocial idiots pushing various shades of conspiracy theory that a lot of people “don’t know who to believe”. Choosing who to believe has certainly been Node’s method in this and other technical matters, and it’s the example set by the corporate media over the course of decades; “expert versus expert”.
2) Laxity versus strictness isn’t the issue. The problem is that merely telling people to stay home is nowhere near enough. We need all the measures listed at endcoronavirus.org (appropriate page linked below), plus proper quarantine, local distribution of necessities especially food, more and better ventilation, activities moved outdoors, temporal segregation, stable groups of workers, and universal basic income so that people aren’t forced to work when feeling ill and have no need to hide from testing.
But even Marxists like N_ aren’t prepared to advocate any of this. Apparently, such measures are beyond our imagination.January 10, 2021 at 10:24 #64604SA
It is not so simple. The government’s messaging has been ambiguous probably intentionally. Why should leaders in a crisis leave it to individuals to decide what is good for society as a whole? Because many of Boris’ backbenchers are more interested in money than in people and the only ‘opposition’ he has is from his even more extreme right wingers. This is why I get angry with supposed Marxists who belittle the pandemic and don’t seem to distinguish between the realities created by the virus and the exploitations for gain and control by the right wing authorities. Some of these ‘Marxists’ even think that giving more pay to health care workers who are risking their lives, is not really a priority, thereby exposing a complete lack of understanding as to why there is such a manpower shortage in the NHS, because of market forces and exploitation of those who have a vocation. Some of these Marxists spend equal time in slagging medical and nursing professions as they do governments, thereby making the job of our incompetent government easier to deflect.
But now professionals are coming out openly on MSM media criticizing the government’s approach as too slack. Lockdown does not mean still arguing about open garden centers and DIY shops and places of worship and football matches. It means empty streets except for people with specific purposes. Children in supermarkets should be banned, in fact people should shop on their own. Reduce people flow. Curfews from sunset to dawn or something like that. And testing and proper tracing.
The government has failed to use the nightingale hospitals because they were under the illusion that this was a business opportunity for their cronies but when they realised that this was not going to happen because there is no manpower to run these places, they did not have the vision instead to use them as an opportunity to isolate those with milder symptoms. This would also create an opportunity not only to reduce the pool of infected individuals, but to learn more about the natural history of the disease at the less severe end and to possibly research how prophylaxis might work. These would require less trained staffing and maybe recruitment of those who would otherwise be in furlough or unemployed.
Sorry about the rant, but it seems so obvious to me where the block is and how it could be bypassed and why it is not, because of ideology, and sadly this ideology cuts across the divide.January 10, 2021 at 11:54 #64606N_
The rule now in Britain is that when the police tell you to go home, you must, and if you don’t they will “fine” you.
So we’re not supposed to believe in the Holy Vaccine then? 🙂
Add that to food shortages. When food runs out, people get more stroppy for a while. Then they get less stroppy after a few days as their body weight falls. (There has been academic research on this.) If you can condition them to obeying policemen’s orders to get off the streets, then you’ll have less trouble from the starving classes during those few days.
Disagree? Then WHY are the police being fired up, being officially encouraged to do things like hassling people who
* have stopped for a sit on a bench during their exercise walk,
* have taken some coffee with them when they exercise,
* have driven a few miles to a park or a place where they like to walk, or
* have left their house more than once in a day.
none of which activities are actually banned? (As if what’s written in paper laws matters a damn now.)
There must be a reason and it’s to do with obedience.
Out of interest, how are the cops checking the identity of people that they’re harassing? There’s no obligation to carry ID in Britain.
The “leaving your house more than once per day” is especially interesting. That’s not against the law. You can exercise, walk your dog, go to the supermarket, drop a pack of paracetamols through your auntie’s door, leave your home for work or business reasons, all on separate outings. But imagine trying to argue that to a thicko young cop who can’t do joined-up writing, or maybe a group of cops who are all geeing each other on. Such cops have been told not to “explain” the rules, but to focus on “enforcing” them. You know what that means. It means “Stop trying to argue with me. You’re wasting police time.” Thicko cops are absolutely LOVING this.January 10, 2021 at 12:03 #64608N_
There is also a question as to what is happening with the gang-controlled illegal drug economy during this lockdown – heroin, crack cocaine, etc. With nightclubs shut and presumably with more police street patrols, this must be changing somewhat. More business for companies such as Hermes? And evictions for rent non-payment are supposed to have stopped, right? That doesn’t mean debt isn’t building up for those who can’t pay their rents. That’s what I want to read about, not that the damned “queen” has had an injection.January 10, 2021 at 12:32 #64609N_
It is ridiculous how some in the lefty middle classes have now been given the okay to call Trump “fascist”, to look out their Adorno etc., when in actual fact 6 January wasn’t an “insurrection” nor was it something these dimwits saw coming, and yet they’re still too timid and stupid to criticise the fascism that has reigned in most countries since March 2020, hung on the notion of the killer virus pandemic – and which in the US in particular is not going to disappear on 20 January when a new president is inaugurated.January 10, 2021 at 13:27 #64611Dave
I think the pandemic will end in US on 20th Jan, but the measures to end the pandemic will get far worse as the ruling elite impose communism to entrench their privilege, under the guise of keeping the poor and vulnerable people safe. And the tag-team will say go further and end the world to save lives.January 10, 2021 at 13:46 #64612node
Who here thinks things will return to normal once sufficient numbers have had the vaccine?January 10, 2021 at 14:13 #64613N_
Thirteen men (spooky number, huh?) have been caught by police “playing cards” at a “social club” in Hackney, inner London. Thus reports the Sun newspaper
What is the first thing that the huge majority of Sun readers will think when they read that?
Fascism doesn’t “theoretically” have to be racist. But the problem is that fascism isn’t a theoretical thing. (Sorry Adorno, mate, you plonker.) In practice it is almost always racist, because racism fits in with and helps with its appeal to “how people really feel”.January 10, 2021 at 14:15 #64614N_
And any leftwinger who doesn’t know the answer to the question “What is the first thing that the huge majority of Sun readers will think when they read that?” really ought to wise themselves up fast. Meet some real people some time.
This was a feature of the previous lockdown too…scare stories about “Leicester” and “Brixton” and “unauthorised parties”. Watch this space.January 10, 2021 at 15:38 #64617ET
“Who here thinks things will return to normal…….”
They will at some point. Every other such event in history has ended even before the advent of vaccines and anti-biotics.
“once sufficient numbers have had the vaccine?”
The various vaccines effects in the real world have yet to be proved/proven. If they do confer some degree of immunity, and/or reduce transmission and/or reduce the risk of severe disease they will speed a return to normal.
Or we have arrived at an extinction level event. I don’t think this is the case as I don’t think this virus is virulent enough (yet) and the majority of people have relatively minor levels of morbidity. By relatively I mean compared to those requiring hospitalisation and/or ventilation.January 10, 2021 at 19:06 #64629Clark
I agree with ET’s position. I’d just add that we have no idea of the various vaccines’ efficacy against some of the new variants.
I think the Westminster government would very much like to “get back to normal”, ‘cos they make lots of money from business as usual. They’ve done as little as they thought they could get away with to deviate from normal. If WWII had been handled like this, we’d have been overrun by Nazis very quickly.
– – – – – – –
Node, your attitude to this raises a question about your overall outlook. You once told us at squonk.tk that you believe world affairs to have been run for centuries in secret by a secret “cabal”, or conspiracy, who “try out” different political systems upon the population to see which ones work best to the cabal’s advantage. Seems supremely unlikely to me but there you go. But why, do you think, did this “cabal” suddenly change everything? What didn’t suit them about neoliberalist economics, and why are they trying so hard to preserve it, ready to reinstate once the new virus settles into background circulation like other viruses we’re familiar with?January 10, 2021 at 20:41 #64634glenn_uk
What I love about these conspiracy fantasists, denialists and clairvoyants (like Mystic N_eg, Null-Node and Deluded Dave) is the sheer lack of accountability. There’s absolutely no reckoning with all the BS and lies they tell. When we don’t all starve to death at a definite given date (such as September last year, per Mystic N_eg), is there a pause for thought?
Of course not – not a bit of it. It reminds me of cultists who prophesied the end of the Earth at various times. Everyone gathered around to wait for the appointed hour, nothing happened. Rather than admit they were wrong, they wave it away as a miscalculation – they forgot to carry the 2 or whatever – and the _new_ date for doomsday is now a few years hence.
Rather than be dismissed as a discredited huckster, the faithful are encouraged, and believe the new prediction with even more certainty!
We see this with Trump’s deluded worshipers. We see it with Mystic N_eg’s continual revising of the New Date when mass starvation (or whatever) is going to cull the masses. (Which doesn’t include Mystic N_eg, of course, because …. err…. he’s too smart to believe in this … erm.. fake thing which is going to kill huge numbers because… err.. [Ed: Straighten this out before publication, OK>]
Then we have the uber-conspiracy, tin-foiler Dave. He confidently predicts the virus will go away when Biden gets in! Just like his mates reckoned it would go away on November 5th. But wait – the fake measures against the non-existent virus will persist, yes… The virus is a fake, the measures are a fake, and Biden will take credit for actually doing nothing, but will continue to repress people… until.. until…
And then we have Null Node, who has never believed anything at all because it’s ALL a hoax, and the proof? It’s covered up so well no proof has been allowed to remain! What more proof do you want?
JHC! Where do these freaks come from? And what is this, nut-house central? Why are they allowed to post this gibberish here?January 10, 2021 at 22:00 #64638Steph
‘And what is this, nut-house central? Why are they allowed to post this gibberish here?’
I know. JHC, it’s really quite shocking isn’t it? Why can’t they see that 7 paragraphs of juvenile mocking, complete with infantile name calling, has far more worth.January 10, 2021 at 22:39 #64639SA
Please for the sake of sanity can we try to discuss realities and try to move away from converting this conversation to another discussion about conspiracy theories. As we cannot ban CT mongers may be we can just ignore them and they might go somewhere else.January 10, 2021 at 23:38 #64641Clark
“I don’t mind people acting like idiots so long as they don’t mind me taking the piss out of them” – Jake Thackray.
I used to go and see him perform with John Etheridge at a pub near Epping.January 11, 2021 at 00:10 #64642Clark
SA, I disagree. The ability to recognise conspiracy theory is a very useful heuristic. I know very little about the workings of the immune system, but I didn’t need to in order to recognise that “a second wave is impossible” Yeadon was very probably talking bullshit, because it was so obviously conspiracy theory; “what they aren’t telling you…” etc. Later, ET discovered that he’s floating a company that stands to increase in value from further infection.
The ability to recognise conspiracy theory from its own features is a sort of intellectual immune system, and in the case of covid-19 it could have saved countless lives.January 11, 2021 at 00:12 #64643Clark
Oh and they won’t just go away; they never do. That’s another feature. But a few do recognise their errors of thinking, and reform. I’ve made that journey myself. I hope.
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