- This topic has 1,208 replies, 1 voice, and was last updated 1 week, 2 days ago by Dave.
January 5, 2021 at 02:28 #64331Clark
Oh, and let’s properly regulate virus research, have proper lab inspections, and move the most dangerous research to remote locations, with proper worker quarantine. The first SARS arose naturally once, and escaped from labs at least three times:January 5, 2021 at 06:34 #64337Dave
Its seems there is agreement, even among the official conspiracy theorists, that coronavirus-19 came from China, but disagreement whether it came from a meat market or from a Deep State part funded bio-lab in Wuhan.
As soon as the concerted MSM coverage began it was clear this was the latest assault on Trump, hoping to ruin his re-election chances by wrecking the economy and using the virus to ban political gatherings and allow election irregularities to be introduced under cover of an emergency. I mean in UK you have the farce of a poorly attended mother of parliaments due to a virus!
Trump had to be removed as a successful populist leader against Globalism, but he’s fighting back, whereas Corbyn was easily pushed aside, and the Globalist Project is now called the Great Reset. This isn’t about serving humanity, albeit there are useful idiots, and hired help, who think so, its about entrenching the power of the existing ruling class and is an alliance between the western bankers, the Chinese communists and the Vatican. I.e. using a virus to impose, in a day, a police state with all protests banned, except violent Deep State backed hate-groups like BLM and Antifa, used to attack patriotic opinion.
The problem is despite their best events in inflicting health and economic harm, following the communist dictum the end justifies the means, with corrupt democrat and republican politicians well rewarded for just following orders, Trump’s still standing and has heroically exposed the election irregularities to millions of Americans, despite the BBC/MSM censorship.
And therefore instead of the virus-crisis ending in November, a new mutant, no details provided, has allegedly emerged requiring even greater restrictions to stop its spread, despite the restrictions not stopping the spread of the first deadly virus. In other words the latest national lockdown that makes no medical sense, but has been announced to try and double down on the virus-terrorism to stop Trump, as Congress meets to vote on the Presidency.January 5, 2021 at 11:18 #64346SA
January 4, 2021 at 22:55#64308REPLY
“What is the Agora Blog? I’ve never heard of it till now and I’m not aware of ever referencing it. You’ve associated me with it in a very negative way. If you don’t have a reason for doing so, the honourable course would be to retract this false association.”
Yes Node, I acknowledge my error, it was not the Agora Blog by Ian Davis, and for this I sincerely apologise and eat humble pie. However I will amend this to say that the source of the original argument you put forward in your post of January 4, 2021 at 17:10#64276 was actually partly from the article by Ian Davis in OffGuardian
So let us see why I and Clark have reached this conclusions:
“By the way, your 95% effective claim is based on a calculation that gives relative risk reduction:
100(1 – (0.044/0.88)) = ~95%.
The absolute risk reduction is much more meaningful:
(0.88-0.044)% = ~0.84%”
OffGuardian Ian Davis:
Using Pfizer’s figures, the relative risk reduction is 100(1 – (0.044/0.88)). Which is 95%. Voila!
Almost a cut and paste I would say. Would you agree?
That would have been fine if you had then linked the source of this calculation, but as Clark pointed out, it appears from your post that you have independently arrived at these figures.
Another quote further down from Ian Davis:
However, this was based upon relative risk reduction. That is the declared percentage difference between the vaccinated group’s 8/18310 chance (0.044%) of developing COVID 19 against a 162/18319 (0.88%) chance of COVID 19 symptoms without the vaccine. As this larger group of 43,000 people have yet to be trialled, there is no basis for this claimed outcome. But it is what it is, and we can use these reported figures here.
This sounds fantastic and is a much better marketing strategy than reporting the absolute risk reduction. The absolute risk of developing COVID 19 symptoms without the vaccine is supposedly 0.88% and with the vaccine 0.044%. In absolute terms, the effectiveness of the vaccine is (0.88-0.044)%.
“For the record, my only substantial quote today was from the British Medical Journal (BMJ) Blog (“Comment and opinion from The BMJ’s international community of readers, authors, and editors”). You didn’t respond other than to attack me personally.”
You then later did quote the article by Peter Doshi in the BMJ.
I did not attack you personally, I just merely mentioned the confusion created between your two different posts.
The problem here is that I do tend to agree with you to a very small extent, and with Peter Doshi and also with what ET has said. Yes we must be cautious about the vaccine, and yes the data is not mature, how can it be if vaccines have only been developed 6 months ago, of course we do not have long term safety data and so on, but given the gravity of the situation there is a real urgency in breaking this cycle. If you have other suggestions, bolstered by reliable quotes, that naturally acquired herd immunity is the way forward, then let us have this discussion.
Therein is the problem Node. If we can solve our differences by rational discussion then we need to agree as to what our beliefs are and how we can respect each other. But this is impossible if we jump from one subject to another. If you start with the view point that the virus is no worse than the ‘flu, and that the PCR is meaningless, then of course we cannot take you seriously when you then jump onto why the vaccine is not effective and so on. At some point we may just agree to disagree.January 5, 2021 at 11:30 #64347SA
“And therefore instead of the virus-crisis ending in November, a new mutant, no details provided, has allegedly emerged requiring even greater restrictions to stop its spread,”January 5, 2021 at 12:00 #64348N_
One thing about the pandemic, right now when England enters “very big lockdown” whereas most of Scotland only goes into “big lockdown”, is as follows.
SNP types will be wondering whether the holding of the Scottish general election on 6 May can be put into question, with the reason being seen as English people “ignoring Scotland”, or – better still – English people spreading germs. Of course to the hypocritical Hun middle classes in Scotland, this will be couched as English people being incompetent at management – insufficiently Calvinist with the cashboxes maybe. To the majority of the population, though, it will be sold as “They come up here, they think they’ve got a right, and they haven’t washed their hands”.
Imagine if bubonic plague had arrived and spread out from Notting Hill in 1960. Good news for the Mosleyites or bad?
I just hope a leading SNP type is caught on camera saying what they really think, namely that the pandemic could be wonderful for their xenophobic cause.
Another way of looking at this is that the fascism that has reigned in Britain isn’t particularly “imperialist”…and so when fascism is in the air, it’s not only in the air in the “Junker” group in the Union’s capital city.January 5, 2021 at 12:21 #64349node
Lordy! Lordy! …. I made a pretty uncontroversial post backing up my statement to Dredd that the new vaccines were “poorly tested”, which everybody here seems to agree with, yet it has provoked a barrage of insults, smears and false claims.
I make no apologies for sourcing Off-Guardian. It is an excellent site (eg see today’s story about so-called Russian hacking which backs up several of Craig’s claims). However I get my information from many other sources too, and I don’t feel the need to provide a link for every fact I post here. In general, when I summarise someone’s point, I don’t; when I post a substantial quote, I do.
I didn’t post your 2nd quote from Ian Davis so I don’t know why you think it’s relevant. By the way, I notice you haven’t refuted anything he said, just complained about where he said it
Finally you lay down some rules for “rational discussion” which I’m to abide by if you are to take me seriously. Ha ha, what arrogance! Maybe I’ll take you seriously when you realise calling someone names (covid denier, trivialiser, conspiracy theorist, deluded, etc) has no part in rational discussion.January 5, 2021 at 12:22 #64350Clark
The trouble with Iain Davis’ “absolute risk reduction” is small sample size, monitored for a short time period. For instance, if we observe a sample of 50,000 people for six months, probably none of them will be killed by traffic collisions, so we therefore conclude that all road and vehicle safety features, traffic law and enforcement are unnecessary, an impediment to freedom and a waste of effort.
Iain Davis’ article primarily serves to provide confirmation bias for those who already accept some covid-19 conspiracy theory, eg:
– “It should also be noted that these figures suggest the threat from COVID 19 is vanishingly small.”
But we know that covid-19 has killed tens of thousands of people in the UK alone and overwhelmed the health service, so the above statement can be interpreted two ways. It could be showing that Iain Davis is misinterpreting the figures. But for those who already accept the conspiracy theory, and worse, for those who are considering giving it credence, it can supply false confirmation for all the rest of it, ie. that there’s no crisis, the mortality figures are an artefact from stupid, supine doctors sheepishly following government instructions to misclassify cause of death, it’s really just a common cold being blown out of proportion by the “MSM” so that Bill Gates can sell vaccines, etc. etc. etc.
The human mind is highly susceptible to conspiracy theory because we are social animals and capable of deception and manipulation, so we have developed a “malicious agent spotter”, just like our “face and object spotter” sees patterns in clouds, or genitals on irregular carrots.January 5, 2021 at 12:31 #64351Clark
Node, you’re absolutely right; it would be very rude of me to laugh at you and call you a fool, even if you insist that this really is a penis on this carrot.
It’s your responsibility to check your own thinking for common thinking errors. It’s your responsibility to check articles and sites for their veracity. The alternative is the old, pre-Internet ways of gate-keeping and censorship, because lives are at stake, so we should all start taking responsibility.January 5, 2021 at 12:39 #64352N_
Guardian – Michael Gove:
“We can’t predict with certainty that we’ll be able to lift restrictions the week commencing the 15 to 22 [February]. What we will be doing is everything we can to make sure that as many people as possible are vaccinated so that we can begin progressively to lift restrictions.” [Emphasis added.]
So it doesn’t matter if “cases” and “deaths” fall to zero, and he’s forgetting that there was just a holiday called “Christmas” too, and that China defeated SARSCov2 without a vaccine. None of that matters. Gove is explicitly linking the lifting of “restrictions” to prior mass vaccination. That’s the line now.
Next PM? Gove or Hunt. Johnson plays badly in Scotland and somebody in London will notice at some point. Gove, for those who don’t already know, is Scottish. Gove is also a raving Hun, having called Theresa May a “Catholic” because her father was a Church of England vicar. In fact Gove went further still and called her a “continuity Catholic”, which, for those who may not be familiar with Protestant sectarianism in Scotland, is a reference to the IRA. I wonder whether Gove has any evangelical money from the US behind him.January 5, 2021 at 12:44 #64355Clark
Dave, it seems to me that QAnon is eating away your mind; claim it back!
You do realise that Trump has B52s circling Iran, and he sacked and replaced the chief of nuclear weapons deployment for some reason, so those B52s quite likely have nuclear cruise missiles aboard? Those B52s have already provided backup for Israel’s latest murder of a top Iranian nuclear scientist.
Trump really isn’t what you think; he’s just a liar who knows how to exploit the human weakness for conspiracy theory. He promised you he’d reveal who dynamited the Twin Towers, didn’t he? Did he ever make good on that? He knows the damn things just collapsed, and he calls Larry Silverstein “my good friend”.January 5, 2021 at 12:53 #64362Clark
N_ – “China defeated SARSCov2 without a vaccine”
Not exactly. China is running an ongoing successful campaign of track, trace and suppression, and has collaborated with Russia on vaccine development. But due to effective social restrictions (and the lack of human rights concern in imposing them), China has time for better vaccine testing.
The next few months will be interesting; can China’s social measures suppress the new variants, or will China rush to deploy vaccines too?January 5, 2021 at 14:28 #64369node
To be clear, my post of January 5, 2021 at 12:21 was addressed to SA.January 5, 2021 at 14:34 #64371Clark
Three articles relevant to subjects currently under discussion here:
– The false promise of herd immunity for COVID-19: Nature.
– Natural herd immunity should not be used as a means of pandemic control: BMJ Blogs.
Both the above reference the resurgence of illness in Manaus, Brazil, despite indications that herd immunity from infection had been reached.
– COVID-vaccine results are on the way — and scientists’ concerns are growing: Nature.
Lots of good citations. Do we really need OffGuardian?January 5, 2021 at 14:35 #64372Clark
Node – “To be clear, my post of January 5, 2021 at 12:21 was addressed to SA.”
Tough.January 5, 2021 at 16:32 #64375ET
Update on the situation where I live. Six positive test results have emerged late yesterday and overnight. The positive results are from a mixture of circumstances although, at the moment, there is no indication of any link to the two cases announced on New Year’s Eve. (The two I posted about earlier who had completed their 14 day self isolation and found to be positive on day 21) I know no more detail than that for now. One of the six most recent positive cases is again from an individual who had completed their 14 day period of self-isolation.
We have now had 3 people test positive beyond 14 day isolation. Prior to this we have had no community cases since May 20 2020 and the only positive tests were from people who had travelled off island and returned or came from elsewhere for (exempted) work purposes.
Given the very small numbers of cases here I think that 3 people testing positive after a 14 day isolation period is significant and points to a new and worrying development. I suspect this is also happening elsewhere and contributing to the ever increasing cases. I think it’s time to re-evaluate the self isolation duration. The government here is currently in a meeting to address this new situation.January 5, 2021 at 17:26 #64376Clark
– “I think it’s time to re-evaluate the self isolation duration.”
Obviously, it needs to be increased to at least four weeks. Ongoing PCR monitoring should be implemented. And there should be proper quarantine rather than self isolation.
– “We have now had 3 people test positive beyond 14 day isolation.”
…and also three cases that so far are an absolute mystery. Both developments are extremely worrying.
Thanks for this; information from communities that we would expect to be protected by isolation is particularly valuable.January 5, 2021 at 18:49 #64383ET
Up until Dec 23 anyone self isolating here had to have a test on day 7, since Dec 23 that has changed to day 1 and day 13. Self isolation meant you could not leave your house for any reason (excepting you got sick enough to require hospital admission) and anyone else in your household had to also self isolate for the same period. It was diligently followed and enforced. The numbers would have been small.
It seems Clark that our government has been reading your posts 🙂
From Wed midnight more or less full lockdown measures wll be implemented as they were in March. Social distancing, masks, closure of pubs restaurants etc, non essential business closed, no weddings or collective worship etc etc I think you get the picture.
“We are moving to Level 5 of our borders framework. We strongly discourage any travel off island. If people do decide to travel after tonight, we cannot guarantee when they will be able to return.”
“Those who do return from one minute past midnight Wednesday night to Thursday morning – again just to be clear in just over 30 hours time – will be required to undergo a new testing regime. This will be three tests. One on day 1. Another on day 6 or 7. A third test on day 13. If people are not prepared to do this, they will have to self-isolate for 21 days.”
“Returnees will no longer be able to self-isolate with anyone other than those they have travelled with.”
There is a whole list of measures but pretty much full lockdown. What a bummer, we were doing so well. I think they will have to amend the self isolation period even with testing and I expect they will.January 5, 2021 at 19:29 #64385Clark
ET, the relative safety of your island is worth protecting. It was a Green Zone, now back to Red. I’m glad the action is fairly decisive, but isolation of 21 days leaves no margin, for 21 days was the period after which a positive test occurred; I’d prefer 28 days. I hope that with the other, general population measures, 21 day isolation will be enough. It is well worth enduring a short period of strong restrictions to get back to normal; I wish everyone there the very best.January 5, 2021 at 19:36 #64386ET
I agree Clark, I was being somewhat tongue-in-cheek. I think they will have to look at the isolation period again though I don’t expect many want to travel anyway. We are still awaiting the variant analysisJanuary 5, 2021 at 19:37 #64387Clark
– “What a bummer, we were doing so well”
You’re still doing well. I’m near Chelmsford where over 1% of the population are infected; in some nearby places it’s over 1.3%.January 5, 2021 at 22:21 #64389Clark
Some practical advice I just received…
The increased infectiousness of the new UK variant actually translates to a much smaller dose of viral particles being required to cause infection – droplets around a quarter of the mass compared with the earlier type. This means that they float in the air much more easily, for a longer time and can drift further – so the “2 metre social distancing” recommendation is no longer adequate.
Wear a mask anywhere there are people, even outdoors.
The disposable paper masks marked as “surgical grade” and available for instance at Tesco for around £5 for ten have been found in testing to be very nearly as effective as N95 masks. However, because the folds come into contact with each other if these masks are reused, they should only be used only once.
Sorry, I don’t yet have references for either of these claims, however my source has got almost everything right so far so I intend to follow this advice.January 5, 2021 at 22:35 #64390Clark
ET, another possibility that should be considered is that infection had been circulating unnoticed at a low level among the population on the island for some time, possibly introduced on an object, and the travellers actually picked it up after their period of self isolation – this would also be consistent with the three otherwise unexplained cases, especially if contact tracing shows no contact with the travellers.
If there is a more widespread outbreak, waste water testing could help to narrow down the search area, to help target testing of individuals.January 5, 2021 at 23:15 #64396mods-cm-org
FYI, ‘Dave’ posted a reply that had nothing to do with SARS-CoV-2 or any other infectious disease; instead it focused on Trump and the US election. Accordingly. it was off topic.
Unfortunately, unlike the main comments under Craig’s articles, the discussion forum software does not allow suspended messages – with mod annotations – to be viewable by their authors, so this needs to be a separate entry.
Dave, if you want to talk about something else, start another forum topic.
Thank you.January 6, 2021 at 01:16 #64399ET
Anything is possible Clark though we had 7 months virus free until New Year’s Eve. If there were a low level of cases you’d have expected someone to show up symptomatic before now especially as we had no socal distancing and everything was open. Introduced via an imported surface is a possiblity I guess we shall have to wait and see what unfolds.
As to the new variant I can understand less viral load needed to infect causing more transmissability but wouldn’t the droplet production be subject to physics of the respiratory tract rather than a change in viral genome. As in a function of the mucous properties and hydrodynamics etc rather than the virus? Is the droplet mass going to change during a cough?January 6, 2021 at 02:17 #64400N_
Torygraph: National deficit in Britain to reach £450bn this year, or 21% of GDP? What, no “V”-shaped recovery after all, then? The pandemic is heaven not just for Big Pharma but for finance capital too. According to the Torygraph, financial markets are expecting a Bank of England rate cut later in 2021 to below 0% and “(b)anks have said such a move could force them to start charging for bank accounts.”
“Or else what?” is the question to ask.
This is debt begetting more debt. Yum yum say the banks. That’s the reason the government did a “Duke of York” with the universities, marching the students in and then marching them out again. What did that achieve? Well it achieved squillions of pounds’ worth of debt for 18-year-olds.
Moreover, when you come to think of it, “negative interest rates” may mean terribly fascinating think pieces for those few leftwingers who read the business pages, but the most salient aspect for most people may be precisely “you gotta pay now to have a current account”, plus indeed a fullblown “depositor levy” for those who still have a bit of money left. “It’s the pandemic, see.”
How long until the idea of a “recovery” bites the dust?January 6, 2021 at 05:27 #64401SA
Clark and ET
I am not so sure about fomite transmission. The main source would be contaminated chilled food that is then not cooked before eating or contaminated handlers, according to the Cases reported in China which I posted above.
As to longer periods of isolation, I guess you would need more data before the policy is changed. The first two cases described are less worrying than the presumably unconnected 6 cases with no clear travel history or contacts from travellers.
I also thought that the new variant is more sticky and therefore causes infections at a lower level of exposure.January 6, 2021 at 10:19 #64402Dave
To Mods. My deleted post about Trump was a one-off in response to a Post by Clark @ January 5, 2021 at 12:44#64355
He never mentioned the virus on that post, and I am contending the response to the virus is political rather than medical and used as a smokescreen to use election irregularities to topple Trump. So please restore my post as it answered Clark’s post.January 6, 2021 at 11:36 #64403N_
“You can only leave your home to exercise, and not for the purpose of recreation or leisure (e.g. a picnic or a social meeting). This should be limited to once per day, and you should not travel outside your local area.”
“You can exercise in a public outdoor place:
* by yourself
* with the people you live with
* in a childcare bubble where providing childcare
* or, when on your own, with 1 person from another household”
This document uses “You should”, “You must”, and “You can only” without clarity. (Was the document cobbled together by a kid in the office, maybe someone in Whitehall’s poshie university pal or second cousin? Don’t ask them to write software documentation.) What is clear is that if you have a picnic, or meet two friends outside, or walk too far along urban streets, or are seen outside too often, or sit down for a breather when you’re out walking, the police have been told to clamp down on you and try to steal your money. Exactly when you would and when you wouldn’t be breaking the law, who knows? But who cares any more?
The rule on only being allowed to exercise outside once each day – and without any “recreation” or “leisure”, so make sure you don’t have a twinkle in your eyes above your mask – has absolutely nothing to do with public health. Nor does coronafascism as a whole. Next steps are being prepared and they will shock the sh*t out of most people. That includes many who post critical stuff to blogs.
If they want to stop me going for my daily walk, they’re going have to shoot or imprison me.January 6, 2021 at 11:41 #64404N_
It’s as if they want everyone inside their houses, picking their mobile phones, eating crisps and necking booze until they risk bursting their guts or passing out, not daring to go for a walk because that would make them a public enemy, occasionally clapping on their doorstep for the Holy “NHS”, and not wanting to talk so much about “disappearances” or daring to criticise (or even name) fascism even in whatever illiterate muck they have been conditioned into monkey-typing on their stupid phones.January 6, 2021 at 12:04 #64405N_
Big Pharma’sThe “vaccine minister” Nadhim Zahawi, currently the chief strategy officer of the oil company Gulf Keystone Petroleum International (as well as having many other business activities, and also being the co-founder and a former CEO of YouGov), says that children’s nurseries are “safe”. Must be a magic virus then, not to infect babies or be capable of being passed on by them. What garbage this guy talks.
There is such a strong element now of saying “any old sh*t” because the success of the internet in degrading the culture has meant there’s no problem with the vast majority of the population believing it, or at least acting as if they do – and if you do that enough, you end up believing it.
Then there is the question of why parents who are locked down would want to send their babies to a nursery in the first place. Do their babies get in the way of their phone-picking?January 6, 2021 at 12:49 #64407glenn_uk
N: “It’s as if they want everyone inside their houses[…]”
No, they just want to avoid overloading the health system – it really is that simple. Same behaviour is seen in pretty much every country, it’s not that much of a mystery.
Wonder what Mystic N_eg’s latest timeline is for mass starvation in the UK?
January 6, 2021 at 12:52 #64408Clark
- This reply was modified 2 weeks, 5 days ago by degmod.
ET, 01:16, #64399 – “…wouldn’t the droplet production be subject to physics of the respiratory tract rather than a change in viral genome”
Yes, droplets will be produced in all sizes, just as they always were. But with the new variant smaller droplets are now dangerous, and these smaller droplets can float further and for longer.January 6, 2021 at 12:55 #64410Clark
MODS you’re welcome to delete my non-covid “Nukes over Iran” replay to Dave as well. Let’s keep this focussed; ultimately, nature is more powerful than politics.January 6, 2021 at 13:06 #64411Clark
N_, 12:04, #64405 – There is such a strong element now of saying “any old sh*t” because the success of the internet in degrading the culture has meant there’s no problem with the vast majority of the population believing it, or at least acting as if they do – and if you do that enough, you end up believing it.
Huh! You haven’t looked into any mirrors recently then, N_?
There’s no “them”, there’s only us, a load of confused and often angry apes desperately trying to decide how to cope, many of us misapplying our entrenched ideologies.January 6, 2021 at 13:55 #64412Clark
glenn_uk, 12:49 – “Same behaviour is seen in pretty much every country…”
See? That proves it’s a conspiracy! Just like fire engines all over the world squirt water at burning buildings; what the hell do they make’m do that for, eh?January 6, 2021 at 14:02 #64414Dave
Simon Dolan of Keep Britain Free crowdfunded an attempted Judicial Review of the illegal lockdowns. Illegal because the Government/Politburo are using the 1984 Public Health Act to impose their communist tyranny, but the Act doesn’t allow for a vastly disproportionate response to a seasonal respiratory virus. The courts for process reasons (as in the US) refused to hear the merits of the case.
This appears to mean the government can’t be formally challenged in court, but they can be challenged in court, but you need a courageous hero, Piers Corbyn, to do so, by getting arrested and insisting on a court case, and then challenging the legality of the ‘law’.
To avoid this the Police advise, then issue PCNs then threaten £10,000 fines and make a point of making a rough-handling arrest, but then release people after hours in jail, without charge but perhaps on bail. But as its illegal nothing goes to court and if it does the Judge dismisses it, as the penalty sought is far too excessive to be considered justice.
This I believe is what happens to Piers. The problem is, there are outraged people, as opposed activists, who don’t know the rules of the game, who fight back and end up charged on non-corona offences such as resisting arrest/assault.
@ N, this is why they use “You should”, “You must”, and “You can only” without clarity, because the restrictions are not a legal requirement, they are government guidance, dressed up as rules, with the intimidation of ludicrous fines, as if they were law. Many people are duly intimidated to go along with it, but if you read the small print of the ‘rules’ on the gov.uk website you’ll find we are all exempt, if we have the gumption to claim our exemptions.
That said the restrictions are primarily to ban all anti-Globalist/freedom protests under guise of fighting a virus.January 6, 2021 at 14:10 #64416Clark
Indeed, we can’t be sure whether such buildings were destroyed by, or merely with fire. After all, many were old and had structural weaknesses, their construction included old-fashioned materials etc. But you can be sure that the authorities will have them all classified as destroyed by fire, no matter what!
Wake up!January 6, 2021 at 14:29 #64419glenn_uk
D: “[…] the Act doesn’t allow for a vastly disproportionate response to a seasonal respiratory virus.”
Fine. But C-19 isn’t a “seasonal respiratory virus”. Everything following that fallacy above is therefore null and void, sorry Dave.
Oh, and Piers Corbyn is an unhinged lunatic, not a freedom warrior. No wonder you like him so much!
Just as an aside, I watched an old Law & Order programme from the 1990s a couple of days ago, and it concerned some unfortunate individual suffering from schizophrenia. This poor confused person was convinced that mind control was being imposed through vaccines and medical treatments for non-existent illnesses – and guess who was behind it all? Step forward Bill Gates!January 6, 2021 at 15:25 #64424N_
Today when I received an item I had bought online it came with a note from the seller begging for positive feedback – i.e. unpaid help with his advertising. That is not unusual but this was the first time I have had a communication which ended with the valediction “Stay Safe” followed by its author’s name.
Will this become the “new normal”? Mustn’t say “Regards” or “Take care” or “Best wishes” in writing, or “Bye” or “See you later” or “Cheers” in speech, but to be a good obedient citizen always make sure you say “Stay Safe”?
I could see it happening – a SARSCoV2-era update on “Heil Hitler”. Cops and all sorts of tinpots would love it. “Stay Safe” continues the alliteration too. Get an artist on the case to design a symbol for the initial letters?
Scottish nationalists could do a “Mc” version. After all, they organised a mass doorstep clapping event for their leader Nicola Sturgeon’s 50th birthday, subsequent to the Boris Johnson-led “clap-ins” for the Holy NHS. Perhaps “Stay Safe and Freedom Soon!” would fit the bill? “Tomorrow Belongs To Us” is too wordy.January 6, 2021 at 16:09 #64426ET
I have been offered discounts to leave reviews which usually involves registering with a third party review site which I refuse to do. presumably the third party sites pay for each sign up hence discount and make their money on your data.
Stay Safe. Have you not parted company from someone with “Drive safely” or “safe journey?” Reflection of the times and a PR exercise all in one. Not sure I’d read too much into it.
The ONS has uploaded week 52 figures.
- 2020 All Deaths 604,045
- 5yr avg Yearly All Deaths 531,129
- 2019 All Deaths 527,234
76,811 increase over 2019 or 13.8% that figure being 12.7% of total 2020 deaths. 72,916 increase over the 5 year avg or 13.7%.
The 2020 figures break down age groups in 5 year increments whereas the previous years don’t. So that said I looked at the age group 15-44 and 45-64 as that was what was available in the previous years.
- 2019 age 15-44 = 14714
- 2020 age 15-44 = 15443
- 2020-2019 15-44 age = 729 or 4.95% increase over 2019 or 4.72% of 2020 deaths for that age group.
- 2019 age 45-64 = 63195
- 2020 age 45-54 = 71979
- 2020-2019 45-64 age = 8784 or 13.9% increase over 2019 or 12.2% of 2020 deaths for that age group.
- covid related deaths (mentioned on death cert) 2020 = 77,686
- resp deaths 2020 = 62,420
- resp deaths 2019 = 71,674
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