- This topic has 513 replies, 1 voice, and was last updated 1 year, 5 months ago by Dr Edd.
August 26, 2019 at 19:57 #46753Paul Barbara
@ Clark August 26, 2019 at 17:02
Only after completing 100 lines: ‘I confess Paul is virtually always right’.August 26, 2019 at 22:53 #46754Paul Barbara
‘March 2015 Settlements in Vaccine Court: 117 Vaccine Injuries and Deaths’:
Look through the list of vaccine injuries, and notice not one case mentions autism.
I wonder what the reason could be? Oh, I wonder if it could possibly be because: ‘…That fund, the Vaccine Injury Compensation Trust Fund, is currently over $3.5 billion, largely because the U.S. Government refuses to even hear cases related to autism which would quickly deplete the fund. (See: How the Government has Earned $3.5 BILLION from the Claim that Vaccines Don’t Cause Autism.)…’
Crafty lot, aren’t they? But megabucks at stake…
One of the agencies (I believe it was the CDC) even admitted only about 1% of vaccine injuries even get reported.August 26, 2019 at 23:10 #46755Paul Barbara
And here come the cavalry!
‘Nonprofit Drug Maker Produces TB Antibiotic After Private Companies Wouldn’t’:
Nonprofit Drug Maker Produces TB Antibiotic After Private Companies Wouldn’t
There are still decent people who work to truly cure or assist sick people, whose primary care is not filthy lucre.
And I’m sure they earn a decent living.
Companies need to make a profit, but not obscene profits at the patients’ or taxpayers’ expense, and by shady and dangerous illegalities.August 27, 2019 at 15:56 #46757Paul Barbara
@ Clark August 26, 2019 at 17:01
Did Goldacre teach you the ‘straw-man’ technique, or did you teach him?
‘…“they are conspiring to kill us all, so every anti-establishment position is more true than theirs”.’ is not my argument, as should be clear to you.August 29, 2019 at 20:29 #46784Paul Barbara
Very good interview, showing just how evil the Big Pharma Corporations are, and how they infiltrate and/or bribe government regulatory agencies (as well as assassinating doctors they see as problems):
‘The Persecution of David Noakes & Lyn Thyer’: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PpHFkhIBiR8
I’ve known the presenter for years, and have met David Noakes.August 31, 2019 at 09:14 #46794Paul Barbara
‘JAMA Study: Flu Shots Are Killing Elderly Citizens In Record Numbers’:
‘..Inquisitr.com reports: In her blog, Attkisson cites a buried JAMA study from almost a decade ago which showed that there was no improvement in mortality rates among senior citizens with a flu vaccine, even after greatly increased vaccination rates. The study “got little attention,” she says, “because the science came down on the wrong side.”
Whereas the researchers had set out to prove that the push for massive flu vaccination would save the world, the researchers were “astonished” to find that the data did not support their presupposition at all. The data actually shows that deaths increased, not decreased, among seniors following vaccination…’
‘A nursing home near Atlanta, Georgia, now reports a devastating outcome to such a policy, according to Health Impact News. All of the residents of the Hope Assisted Living & Memory Care were given a flu vaccine on Friday, November 7. Every one of the senior citizens developed an immediate fever. Within the week following, five of them died. The source reports that the facility’s typical pattern is one or two losses every six months, frequently due to Alzheimer’s.
Questions must be asked, then, such as: do the benefits of getting a flu vaccine outweigh the risks, especially among vulnerable senior citizens? Or would they be better off choosing to reject the shot? Who benefits if evidence showing the harm of the vaccine is buried?..’
The evidence builds up (good enough for me, anyhow. I don’t take the flu, shingles or pneumonia jabs, despite being ‘advised’ to due to my age.September 3, 2019 at 11:45 #46822Clark
– “You carry on, giving the PTB the benefit of the doubt.”
I think you should ask yourself why you assume that’s what I’m doing. My argument is not “the governments of the world are probably good”. My argument is “Paul Barbara and the websites he trusts are illiterate in science”. Assuming I’m a sheeple merely demonstrates your arrogance.
– “Did Goldacre teach you the ‘straw-man’ technique, or did you teach him?”
In other words, have I conspired with Goldacre? No I haven’t. I quote him because his arguments make more scientific sense than yours, and because he has a much more convincing explanation for your behaviour than you have for his.September 3, 2019 at 12:04 #46823Clark
Here is the article you accuse of trying “to destroy the credibility of the two researchers”:
I have read through it, and I cannot find a single sentence criticising the scientific reputation of the researchers. There is, however, criticism of their conclusions in that particular paper; is that what you’re unhappy about?
– “Don’t bother to trot out the ‘Official Narrative’ of how breathtakingly flawed all their work was, they were hounded because of what they exposed”
OK. So no scientific analysis is necessary. Since “Paul is virtually always right”, any contrary position is merely “The Official Narrative” and can be discounted.September 3, 2019 at 12:07 #46824Clark
Sorry, I got the link wrong (and the over-enthusiastic forum software embedded an extract). Here is the Globe and Mail article that you accuse of libel:September 3, 2019 at 12:10 #46825Clark
If you can’t see your own ego at work here then you must be blind to it. Maybe Jesus was tempted by the Devil, but you have clearly succumbed.September 3, 2019 at 12:14 #46826Clark
– “Look through the list of vaccine injuries, and notice not one case mentions autism. I wonder what the reason could be?”
It could be that there is extremely strong scientific evidence that the MMR vaccine does not cause autism.
Would you know where to look for such evidence? Would you know how to assess its accuracy? Those are questions, Paul; if you’re attempting discussion rather than ideological bludgeoning, please attempt to answer them.September 3, 2019 at 12:23 #46827Clark
– “do the benefits of getting a flu vaccine outweigh the risks?”
I don’t know; how would you find out? What evidence would you have to assess, where might you find it collated, and what other matters should be taken into consideration?
Maybe the best thing would be to compile every bad occurrence that might have been caused by a vaccination, ramp up the rhetoric and try to scare everyone off vaccination – never, ever mentioning the millions of preventable illnesses every year. After all, “Paul is virtually always right”.
Science = “whatever Paul says”.September 3, 2019 at 12:25 #46828Clark
Oh, so David Noakes isn’t a millionaire who tried to gain political power then?
I thought you claimed to have a distrust of the ‘elite’?September 3, 2019 at 13:32 #46839Clark
Paul, the arguments you have presented on this page are very unfocussed; first it’s Zuckerberg and Facebook, then it’s Google. Then mercury in vaccines, and then glyphosate. Then the Adkins family. Then Wikipedia. Then the “human culling” theory. Then Craig’s mods are conspiring against you (retracted, thankfully!). Next it’s the ‘suppression of GcMAF, Goldman Sachs and the ‘persecution’ of millionaire and UKIP hopeful David Noakes. Then the ‘persecution’ of Wakefield, Seralini and Pusztai.
As best I can make out, your argument goes like this:
“I have presented so many examples that there must be corruption. As corruption has been proven, all my examples are almost certainly true”.
This is not a scientific argument. Scientific arguments examine evidence relevant to a specific scientific claim, and only that; eg. “Merck covered up vioxx side effects” (which they did) is not evidence that fish oils increase intelligence.
And you have a very odd idea of what is ‘natural’ and what isn’t. Drinking colloidal silver (as advocated on about half the sites you promote) is not natural, and neither is injecting anything, let alone GcMAF. Vaccines do prime the genuinely natural immune system, yet you promote the campaign of spreading fear of them.
If you really want to know what Big Pharma get up to, you need to read Goldacre’s Bad Pharma – more than 400 pages about pharmaceutical scams with the collusion of the industry regulators. But before you could understand it you’d need to read Bad Science.September 5, 2019 at 07:32 #46852Paul Barbara
@ Clark September 3, 2019 at 12:25
No, David Noakes isn’t a millionaire, he’s been robbed of everything.
He is not one of the ‘Elite’, he was a well-meaning entrepreneur (in the mold of Aaron Russo).
Just en passant, Prof. Leroy Hulsey’s report is out, in case your interested. I’m not proposing we discuss it, just letting you know things are moving on that front.September 5, 2019 at 07:37 #46853Paul Barbara
@ Clark September 3, 2019 at 12:23
If you check the list of payments for ill effects by the Vaccine Court (that I put up here previously) you will note that most of the payments are re the Flu Vaccine. Do you take it? I don’t.September 5, 2019 at 07:52 #46855Paul Barbara
@ Clark September 3, 2019 at 13:32
I don’t agree with Noakes’ politics; I voted out, but like Craig believe some kind of deal like I think Norway has with the EU would be fine. The one thing I don’t want to see is us as under the thumb of the US and it’s ‘Trade Deals’, forcing all manner of junk down our throats like GMO’s, chlorinated chicken, hormone-filled beef and dairy and pesticides, herbicides and 5G for afters. And of course, bye bye NHS.
I wanted out because I saw the EU as a massive building block of the NWO; I still see it that way, but I had not understood we would be putting ourselves at the mercy of the Yanks and their ‘Deals’ that we couldn’t refuse (at least, they wouldn’t be refused by the Tories).
Sure, I tie in a lot of different things in this thread, because the issues are linked by the bad results they will have for the majority, and the vast profits they have for the PTB.
If your Goldacre has spent 400 pages informing you and anyone else who reads his book just how evil Big Pharma is, I’m surprised it hasn’t percolated through to you yet.September 5, 2019 at 08:27 #46856Paul Barbara
@ Clark September 3, 2019 at 13:32
“I have presented so many examples that there must be corruption. As corruption has been proven, all my examples are almost certainly true”.
That is broadly my position – I give so many examples that it hopefully becomes apparent that these big corporations are corrupt and evil – any exception (if you can find any) will prove the rule.
And these same evil, corrupt corporations, as well as foreign governments, bribe and/or blackmail the eminently corruptible politicians who rule us. So they easily gain effective control of ‘Regulatory Agencies’, which are often infiltrated by ‘revolving door’ corporation plants, or emasculated by corporation lobbying of the government.
Yesterday, I more-or-less politely declined the kind offer of electric and gas ‘Smart’ meters, another killer.
When asked why, I replied ‘Because I’m not stupid’. 5G, Fracking, GMO’s, Regime Change wars – when are people going to wise up?September 5, 2019 at 13:22 #46869Clark
– “I’m surprised it hasn’t percolated through to you yet”
Again, please try to read what I actually write, rather than what you think I mean. On this thread I have repeatedly expressed my distrust of the big pharmaceutical companies. I quoted Goldacre; “Big pharma is evil: I would agree with that premise”, and I even criticised a passage that you yourself cited, because it equivocates and pulls its punches.
But I don’t think MMR causes autism etc., and so you filter out what I’m trying to tell you. You thereby confirm Goldacre’s criticism:
– “‘Big pharma is evil,’ goes the line of reasoning, ‘therefore
homeopathy works andthe MMR vaccine causes autism.’”September 5, 2019 at 13:33 #46870Clark
What’s this “everything” he’s been robbed of? He was operating out of Guernsey; there ain’t no paupers there; I’ve seen for myself!
He’s not a scientist or an academic. He worked for the MSM and JP Morgan Chase Bank.
– “Prof. Leroy Hulsey’s report is out…”
If you remember what I actually wrote on the 9/11 Thread, I suspect that WTC7 may have been subject to emergency demolition, prompted and undertaken by some very brave and determined fire-fighters, a decision made just before the WTC7 exclusion zone was enforced; there are multiple strands of circumstantial evidence which point that way. The bottom-up collapse of WTC7 tells us nothing about the top-down collapses of the Twin Towers.September 5, 2019 at 13:44 #46871Clark
– “when are people going to wise up?”
You imagine yourself to be wise. I have bad news for you; what you call the Devil is more insidious than you give credit for. Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn:
– “If only there were evil people somewhere insidiously committing evil deeds, and it were necessary only to separate them from the rest of us and destroy them. But the line dividing good and evil cuts through the heart of every human being. And who is willing to destroy a piece of his own heart?”
You blame the world’s problems on some evil, essentially unidentified elite, but it is far worse than that; some of the problem resides within each and every one of us. Part of it is the feeling we each have that we know better than nearly everyone else.September 5, 2019 at 22:20 #46888Paul Barbara
@ Clark September 5, 2019 at 13:44
Don’t worry, I’m fully aware how insidious the Devil is, he runs the world.
And yes, he has power over all of us, to an extent, generally working through our subconscious.
But many people actively collaborate with the Devil, effectively selling their souls for wealth and power on this earth.
I believe that the Devil is an actual entity, and he has armies of demons at his command.
I don’t expect you to agree, but that is what I believe, literally.
@ September 5, 2019 at 13:22 you state:
‘…But I don’t think MMR causes autism etc.,..’ Just how scientific is that? You don’t think so, so you must be right. Exactly the kind of thinking you accuse me of! Essentially, you accept the ‘Official Narrative’, and dismiss all alternative views and evidence.
And it is not an isolated occurrence. You have preferred your own inexpert opinion over experts in other fields.September 5, 2019 at 23:33 #46890Clark
Here is some of the sort of evidence I base my view on:
– “We included five randomised controlled trials (RCTs), one controlled clinical trial (CCT), 27 cohort studies, 17 case‐control studies, five time‐series trials, one case cross‐over trial, two ecological studies, six self controlled case series studies involving in all about 14,700,000 children and assessing effectiveness and safety of MMR vaccine”
I have linked to it in a previous discussion. I have also mentioned cohort studies and case-control studies in this thread.September 6, 2019 at 00:18 #46893Paul Barbara
@ Clark September 5, 2019 at 23:33
And here is an example of an info source I get my opinions from:
‘Robert F. Kennedy, Jr. Nails the Vaccine Argument’:
‘..Now, all of the vaccines on the schedule, and all medical products, are required to list whatever safety testing they do. Not one of these has ever used a placebo. But some of them do safety testing anyway, like the polio vaccine, for maybe 48 hours.
The hepatitis B vaccine that is given to every child in this country on the day it’s born, they observe for 5 days. That means if a child dies on day 6, it never happened. If a child has a seizure on day 6, it never happened. If the baby gets food allergies and is diagnosed three years later, or autism or an auto-immune disease, it never happened. That way they can say it’s safe.
The weird thing is that there was one vaccine, the MMR vaccine, that all of this hoopla is about, it’s the only vaccine that has no safety testing listed on the insert. And for many years, Del [Bigtree] and I have been saying, “that’s weird.” Do any exist? What happened? So we sued HHS. We said, “where is it?”
Three weeks ago they gave us the safety testing. There were 800 kids. Normally you have 20,000 kids or subjects in one of these. There were 800 kids in 8 different categories. For a drug they are going to give to billions of people. The testing lasted only 42 days.
But 50% of the kids who were involved in that study had gastro-intestinal illnesses, serious ones, some of them for the full 42 days. 50% had respiratory illnesses, some of them for 42 days. This is a product that is worse, according to its own record, than the illness it’s pretending to prevent….’
Seems some disconnect between your sites figures and RFK Jr.’s. I trust his.
I shall try to send RFK Jr. the ‘evidence’ you quote, and I shall try to send RFK Jr.’s article to Cochrane, askinf them respectively to critique the other. It will take some time, I should imagine, before I get responses, if I do.September 6, 2019 at 00:31 #46894Paul Barbara
@ Clark September 5, 2019 at 23:33
When I tried to find your quote on the link you provided, I could not find it.
Can you please check if you sent me the right link, and if so, explain where your quote is?
I intend to send it to RFK Jr., with a request to comment on it (as I explain below in another comment).
‘…Here is some of the sort of evidence I base my view on:
– “We included five randomised controlled trials (RCTs), one controlled clinical trial (CCT), 27 cohort studies, 17 case‐control studies, five time‐series trials, one case cross‐over trial, two ecological studies, six self controlled case series studies involving in all about 14,700,000 children and assessing effectiveness and safety of MMR vaccine”September 6, 2019 at 00:43 #46895Paul Barbara
I have now contacted Cochrane; here is a copy of my email (via web form):
How do you reconcile your claims of the safety of the MMR Vaccine against the information RFK Jr. gives re the absolute minimalistic 800 children ‘Safety Test’?
Basically, I am not medical/technical minded, just an average Joe, and I’m asking if you would give me a critique of what RFK Jr. has written, or of the transcript of his talk, which I forward here, because the two attitudes to MMR safety differ so fundamentally:
‘Robert F. Kennedy, Jr. Nails the Vaccine Argument’:
I must add I favour RFK Jr.’s take.September 6, 2019 at 01:19 #46897Paul Barbara
‘The True Purpose of California Vaccine Bill SB276’:
‘…According to a MedAlerts search of the FDA Vaccine Adverse Event Reporting System (VAERS) database, as of 2/5/19, the cumulative raw count of adverse events from measles, mumps, and rubella vaccines alone was: 93,929 adverse events, 1,810 disabilities, 6,902 hospitalizations, and 463 deaths….’
And these bought ‘Legislators’ want a child’s right to education reliant on playing their ‘Russian Roulette’?
And that is without taking autism into account, because the Vaccine Court refuses to even look at cases of autism, never mind compensate them. It pretends that vaccines can’t cause autism.
Knocked over by a car? But the car was only going at 20 MPH, so you obviously died because you had a thin skull. Act of God!September 6, 2019 at 01:30 #46899Clark
It’s the first paragraph in the sixth section “main results”. I opened the page from your copy of the link.September 6, 2019 at 01:41 #46900Clark
The adverse events, disabilities, hospitalizations and deaths from vaccination must be weighed against the adverse events, disabilities, hospitalizations and deaths from measles, mumps and rubella. Note that the figures are cumulative, so these are since records of MMR began.
You make a false case if you promote only one side of the data. These official figures also show that the repeated claim of anti-vaccination sites that “the authorities pretend that vaccines are perfectly safe”, and which you enthusiastically repeat, are also false. Falsity is, I think, what you would call “the work of the devil”.September 6, 2019 at 01:50 #46901Clark
– “Not one of these has ever used a placebo”
It would be unethical to give a placebo, because the doctors would be withholding preventative treatment while convincing the parents otherwise.
Surely RFK has had this explained to him; even I know it. It is therefore dishonest of him to suggest that omitting placebo is underhand. Dishonesty is the devils work, and you need to think more carefully; doctors are more intelligent and caring than you are giving them credit for.September 6, 2019 at 02:17 #46904Clark
This is all a massive distraction.
In a humane, just society, parents of autistic children would get support no matter what caused the autism. But the US is not a humane, just society; it is a viciously capitalist society, so parents have only the chance of “compensation”. And they can only get that if they can prove that the autism was caused by some entity that has enough money to pay them.
Consequently lobby groups develop, and some people, maybe mistaken but possibly unscrupulous, amplify or even exploit the distress and poverty of parents to become figureheads and ‘heroes’, and sometimes to gain an income for themselves.
The fundamental evil is capitalism, which sets everyone in competition with everyone else.September 6, 2019 at 02:29 #46905Clark
The Cochrane authors already answered you; it’s in the section “Authors conclusion”:
– “The design and reporting of safety outcomes in MMR vaccine studies, both pre‐ and post‐marketing, are largely inadequate.”
Why did you not see it? Had the devil blinded you to good works?September 6, 2019 at 02:32 #46906Clark
How did Satan manage that, Paul? Had he tricked you into looking only for the confirmation of falsity?September 6, 2019 at 02:40 #46907Paul Barbara
@ Clark September 6, 2019 at 01:30
Thanks for pointing out the quote. I’ll send it tomorrow (too tired now).September 6, 2019 at 04:29 #46916Clark
Good on you Paul for giving RFK the information, and the opportunity to argue his case.
If he now attacks the reputation of Cochrane or the researchers, rather than addressing the evidence they present and the methods they employ, then you will know that he’s not arguing scientifically.September 6, 2019 at 10:06 #46928Paul Barbara
@ Clark September 6, 2019 at 02:29
‘…“The design and reporting of safety outcomes in MMR vaccine studies, both pre‐ and post‐marketing, are largely inadequate.”…’
How come you never saw it? If you did, how do you still accept that the MMR is safe?September 6, 2019 at 10:12 #46930Paul Barbara
Here’s Cochrane’s (very speedy) answer:
‘Thank you for your message.
Cochrane is a global independent network of researchers producing reviews of health evidence. As such, the organisation does not take a stance on the findings of individual research papers. We simply support evidence-based decision-making by clinicians and patients.
For information from Cochrane on the evidence regarding the MMR vaccine you would need to search for relevant reviews in the Cochrane Library: https://www.cochranelibrary.com .’
So they pass on commenting on RFK Jr.’s speech/transcript. Pity they couldn’t stretch their parameters a bit to indicate where they think he is wrong. Hopefully I’ll get a better response from RFK Jr.September 6, 2019 at 10:33 #46931Paul Barbara
@ Clark September 6, 2019 at 01:41
‘..The adverse events, disabilities, hospitalizations and deaths from vaccination must be weighed against the adverse events, disabilities, hospitalizations and deaths from measles, mumps and rubella. Note that the figures are cumulative, so these are since records of MMR began…’
So where are the lists of the adverse events, disabilities, hospitalizations and deaths from measles, mumps and rubella?
And notice the CDC’s own investigation which they funded showed only about 1% of adverse reactions gets reported, which caused the CDC to cut the funding and stop the investigation continuing:
‘It’s True, Less Than 1% of Vaccine Adverse Effects Are Reported’:
‘…This was clearly alarming and would have rocked the entire industry if given the light of day. Vaccine adverse events are supposed to be rare; they shouldn’t occur in over 2 percent of shots. So, the CDC buried the study and cut ties with the researchers.
The report states: “Unfortunately, there was never an opportunity to perform system performance assessments because the necessary CDC contacts were no longer available and the CDC consultants responsible for receiving data were no longer responsive to our multiple requests to proceed with testing and evaluation.”…’September 6, 2019 at 11:04 #46932Paul Barbara
@ Clark September 6, 2019 at 02:17
‘..This is all a massive distraction….’ Not for those affected.
‘..The fundamental evil is capitalism, which sets everyone in competition with everyone else…’
So what to do? End capitalism?
Much easier to campaign for no mandatory vaccines, and proper vaccine testing and accountability from the Big Pharma Corporations.
Or just stand around, wringing our hands and tearing our hair, and letting the murderous Big Pharma and their government and media cronies carry on poisoning us and our children?September 6, 2019 at 11:27 #46933Paul Barbara
Food for thought:
‘Germany ‘among worst in Europe’ for vaccinating children’:
‘..”It is sad that Germany comes in last in Europe in terms of eliminating measles,” said President of Berlin’s Robert Koch Institute (RKI) Lothar Wieler in a recent report…’
‘..However, despite lagging behind the desired vaccination rate, 2016 saw a dramatic drop in reported cases of measles…’
Ah, but….’11 Countries with the Highest Rates of Autism in the World’:
‘…This theory fails to explain the low autism prevalence in countries like France, with 5 cases in 10,000 people or Germany, with just 1.9. Germany’s neighbor Denmark has an autism rate of 68 cases in 10,000 people, which is a staggering difference…’
I wonder if there isn’t a link between Germany’s low rate of vaccination, and there very low number of autism cases?
‘Measles death in Germany prompts calls for mandatory vaccinations’:
Possibly because the child wasn’t vaccinated – I admit.
But, what is more dangerous? The vaccine, or the measles?
‘Measles Vaccines Kill More People than Measles, CDC Data Proves’:
‘…Parents concerned about their vaccinated children potentially contracting measles from unvaccinated children may want to consider the fact that the bigger health threat is technically the vaccine, not the disease itself. Comparative data provided by the U.S. Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) and the Vaccine Adverse Event Reporting System (VAERS) reveal that nobody has died from measles in more than 10 years, while at least 108 deaths reported in VAERS during the same time frame have been linked to measles vaccines….’
And of course, we know that VAERS reporting of adverse reactions is extremely low….