176 thoughts on “Mavi Marmara: Footage Hidden From the Israelis

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  • Larry from St. Louis

    “Strangely, a few people have even claimed that a photograph of a few knives and sticks was also fabricated when such a photograph would have been utterly pointless (we KNOW the peace activists had sticks, chains and knives and used them).”

    And the silliness a few days ago was that the ship was just about to turn back. After months and months of planning, a course charted from the minute of planning until being boarded – it’s now claimed that the ship was going to turn back.

    I really can’t wait for the rest of what the conspiracy-thinking nuts have for us on this one.

  • angrysoba

    “angrysoba

    before I give you a link to the IDF press release.

    Tell me, will it make a difference to you. If not, go find the link yourself.

    If it will, and you will renounce all your Zionist beliefs as a result and join the correct side. I will give you the link.

    So Angry which is it?”

    Of course it makes a difference if they say they faked the recording.

    As for the term “Zionist” that’s not even a term I use because it seems to have a thousand different meanings.

  • Larry from St. Louis

    Arsalan: “I’m a Muslim, 1.5 billion people share my beliefs.”

    Always with that threat.

  • Arsalan

    Larry the liar only racist morons like you see it as a threat.

    Humans see it as a statement of fact and nothing more.

    Most of the planet isn’t bigotted like you and the other idiot.

    You are the bigoted exception and not the rule.

    So Larry, feel threatened and hide under your bed.

  • angrysoba

    “And the silliness a few days ago was that the ship was just about to turn back.”

    I saw that one too. I just can’t get my head around where they’re coming from most of the time let alone how they further their argument trying to show which direction the Mavi Marmara was heading.

    Maybe it’s a hangover from the sinking of the Belgrano. They’ll deploy any possible argument there is to throw up dust.

  • Michael Petek

    Arsalan, apart from the typographical error I made in my previous posting, I have in front of me the parallel Arabic and English text of Ummdat as-Salik, a manual of Islamic law by Ahmad ibn Naqib al-Misri (d. 769/1368), translated by Nuh Ha Mim Keller and certified by al-Azhar. Here is the exact text:

    “O9.0 JIHAD

    (O [the following is an excerpt from the commentary of Sheikh ‘Umar Barakat]: Jihad means to war against non-Muslims, and is etymologically derived from the word mujahada, signifying warfare to establish the religion. And it is the lesser jihad. As for the greater jihad, it is spiritual warfare against the lower self (nafs), which is why the Prophet (Allah bless him and give him peace) said as he was returning from jihad,

    “We have returned from the lesser jihad to the greater jihad.”

    The scriptural basis for jihad, prior to scholarly consensus is such Koranic verses as:

    (1) “Fighting is prescribed for you” (Koran 2:216);

    (2) “Slay them wherever you find them” (Koran 4:89);

    (3) “Fight the idolaters utterly” (Koran 9:36);

    and such hadiths as the one related by Bukhari and Muslim that the Prophet (Allah bless him and give him peace) said:

    “I have been commanded to fight people until they testify that there is no god but Allah and that Muhammad is the Messenger of Allah, and perform the prayer, and pay zakat. If they say it, they have saved their blood and possessions from me, except for the rights of Islam over them. And their final reckoning is with Allah”;

    and the hadith reported by Muslim,

    “To go forth in the morning or evening to fight in the path of Allah is better than the whole world and everything in it.”

    Details concerning jihad are found in the accounts of the military expeditions of the Prophet (Allah bless him and give him peace), including his own martial forays and those on which he dispatched others. The former consist of the ones he personally attended, some twenty-seven (others say twenty-nine) of them. He fought in eight of them, and killed only one person with his noble hand, Ubayy ibn Khalaf, at the battle of Uhud. On the latter expeditions he sent others to fight, himself remaining at Medina, and these were forty-seven in number.)”

    Now, Arslan, let me anticipate your next post:

    “Aaaaaargh! Michael Petek, enemy of Islam! Enemy of Islam! Infidel! Infidel!”

  • Larry from St. Louis

    angrysoba: “As for the term “Zionist” that’s not even a term I use because it seems to have a thousand different meanings.”

    In addition to that, I think “Zionist” probably means something quite different in American English rather than British English. It sounds rather primitive, and when an American uses it, it pretty much tells you all that you need to know about that person (i.e., the speaker is probably a right-wing Jew-hating nut).

    So, for instance, when Craig Murray expresses fear that “Zionist trolls” have invaded his website, to American ears he sounds like a Jew-baiter who’s doesn’t quite understand the true genesis of the Protocols of the Elders of Zion.

  • Suhayl Saadi

    Oh, what’s the point. Michael and Arsalan will have their tennis-match, regardless.

    Fact: Nine dead in the Eastern Med.

    Fact: Gaza is under illegal blockade.

    Fact: Israel continue to occupy territories which do not belong to it as delineated by the UN.

    Fact: Israel continues to exert oppression of the Palestinians and to resist rational efforts to resolve the issue.

    Fact: The USA continues to provide the Israeli state with massive amounts of money.

    Fact: Via its military-industrial technology, the Israeli state is a major player in the generation of war. So is the UK state, incidentally. And Germany. And Russia. And of course, the grand-daddy of ’em all, the USA.

    Fact: Any rational discussion needs to focus the role of the Israeli state in US imperialism and not be directed at the Israeli people who are as variegated a bunch as the bloggers on this site.

    All the rest – who said what, when, and all the stuff about photographs and so on – is persiflage, much of it generated by pro-Israeli media activists.

    Facts.

  • Larry from St. Louis

    Arsalan, why do we rarely hear from Christians “Do you realize you just offended X billion Christians?”

    Always with the numbers with you people.

  • Larry from St. Louis

    Israel as an instrument of U.S. imperialism is about as likely as me being a paid-for Zionist secret-agent man, which you have otherwise maintained.

    Are Turkey and Egypt instruments of U.S. imperialism? They receive all sorts of aid. Are certain African governments instruments of Swedish imperialism?

    Fact: Hamas will not back away from its desire to destroy Israel.

    Fact: Every time your jihadist compatriots fire a rocket from Gaza, you weaken the elements in Israel who want to pursue peace and have the power to create peace.

    Fact: Nentanyahu’s latest rise to power is greatly attributable to the behaviour of your suicide-loving culturally insane Muslim compatriots.

  • Arsalan

    Angry the whole world except Israel and its US puppets see what happened for what it is. It is only Israel that it was all a conspiracy to Make Zionism look bad. So are you becoming a conspiracy theorist now?

    I have spent too much time here, I need to get some work done. Bye Angry, out of the Zionists you are the least bad.

    Michael Petek and his bigotry has made me come to that conclusion.

    I think he does your cause more harm than good. So I suppose I should be thankful for his existence should I?

    Craig Micheal Petek doing a black ups to make Zionists look bad.

  • angrysoba

    “In addition to that, I think “Zionist” probably means something quite different in American English rather than British English. It sounds rather primitive, and when an American uses it, it pretty much tells you all that you need to know about that person (i.e., the speaker is probably a right-wing Jew-hating nut).”

    It could be, but I honestly didn’t think much about the term until a few years ago and it always seemed to appear in a construction such as “Those Neo-con Zionist NeoZionNazi Zionist Neo-con warmongerererers” spat out like expletives. Because of a noticable correlation between the ejactulation of the term “Zionist” and great gobs of spittle I’ve found it very hard to take anyone who regularly uses the term seriously.

  • Arsalan

    Suhayl Saadi

    I’m not going to get in to a tennis match with him because I know that is his plan. Larry and Stephen tried the same thing when they first started pasting here.

    He is trying to cut and past from the Quran to try and divert attention form the people killed.

    That is a common Zionist tactic and a common Nazi Tactic.

    When Nazis are question about Jews killed they cut and past from the talmud in the way MP is doing.

    And if the Jew tries to refute their interpretation, attention is withdrawn from the matter at hand, the people killed.

    Nazi trick, he uses it because he is a Nazi.

    Michael, you want an interpretation of the verse go to a Mosque and ask what the verse was revealed concerning.

    If you are just pasting to divert attention, it wont work.

    You are a Nazi for supporting the people killed on the ship and those that die of starvation in Gaza. And that is where we will keep the attention

  • angrysoba

    Anyway, I looked up the stuff about the recording.

    The first was of the IDF warning the Mavi Marmara not to enter Gaza.

    The second was an edited version of a completely different conversation in which the “Go back to Auschwitz!” thing was heard. There was never any question that it was edited even though there were questions over its authenticity. (As it happens I thought it sounded weird too).

    Then the full transmission was released with all the silences and boring bits included. It was a conversation on an open channel which is why people on other boats could also be heard.

    It really seems to be a weird thing to dispute though.

  • Arsalan

    Larry the Liar so are you telling me you don’t support netanyahu?

    So who do you support then?

    Peace now?

  • Larry from St. Louis

    “Larry the Liar so are you telling me you don’t support netanyahu?”

    Correct. Now try wrapping your head around that one, you fucking Neanderthal.

  • Arsalan

    Larry We already know you are a rabid Zionist.

    Don’t try and pretend to be on the left wing.

    we remember your earlier posts.

    And the same goes for MP if you are intending to try the same argument.

  • Arsalan

    “Now try wrapping your head around that one, you fucking Neanderthal.”

    So are you going to give any more comments to convince us you belong the the peaceful side of Zionism that wants to achieve some sort of coexistence?

    One that rejects Netanyaho?

  • Anonymous

    Larry feel free to spread your bile about Muslims now. I’m going home. I have a wife too cook me food. I have children. I also have a paper to write and an fierce argument to prepare with my supervisor because he is one of the World’s greatest Scientists and I have just rubbished one of his theories.

    You have until my meeting with him, to hatemonger without me calling you a Nazi.

    Bye everyone, both Nazis and Humans.

    I’m off to Eat, and then to Prepare for the day when someone I respect very much beats the shit out of me in front of an audience.

  • Mrs Average

    I laugh at the zionists because they are the stupidest people on earth. How can they take themselves seriously? Do they not realize how stupid they look to the rest of the world? Flailing about in blood and guts and for what. They have already lost. I’ll tell you what, we should build a wall around that foolish little country…

  • Arsalan

    Mrs Average Vampires can not feed off their own blood, only two things are keeping Israel alive. The taxes Americans pay to it, and the money mobsters steal and launder in it.

    Without it it would die.

  • Suhayl Saadi

    Anonymous poster at 627pm on 11th June 2010 CE:

    Good luck!

    Of course, the regimes ruling Turkey and Egypt, and many other regimes as well, further the aims of US imperialism. How many military bases does the USA have around the world? Israel, however, like the UK, is part of the colonial mechanism; it is not a colonised state ruled by a ‘native elite’. It also gets enormous amounts of money from the USA, much more than any of the others. I’m no fan of Hamas. But unfortunately, Labour in Israel has been no better wrt the Palestinians, settlements, etc. than the other parties when they’ve ruled. Now there is a coalition govt with both components. There is a common strategy.

    You know, I would like to see peace – I have no desire to see Israel or any other place destroyed – but also justice. Because without the latter, there will never be the former.

  • Arsalan

    Suhayl Saadi

    It doesn’t matter whether we are fans of hamas or not. What matters is the Palestinians are, they voted Hamas in.

    And people who claim to believe in democracy should respect that.

    I don’t claim to believe in democracy so I don’t respect that. Hamas were fools to take part in the elections. Any idiot knows democracy is a farce.

    Muslims are only allowed to take part in elections to endorse the dictators America chooses, or in this case Israel chooses.

    The Palestinians choose someone, which the Israelis didn’t choose, so Israel Punished the Palestinians, and used their American puppets to Punish the Palestinians some more, and the EU not to be left out joined in on the punishment. Because democracy is the right of the white man, the best the brown man can hope for is to endorse the choice of the white man by placing a cross next to his choice.

    I knew this, from experience. It happens every time Muslims vote for someone the great white nations don’t like.

    What did the Guardian say after the Algerian elections in support of the army?

    “Sometimes you have to use undemocractic means to secure democracy”

    which translates as “We need to show those Niggers whose boss!”.

    And that is what Israel is doing in Gaza, showing the uppetty niggers whose boss, niggers who chose a spokesman who the master didn’t like.

    But I do believe Israel would has still killed as many Palestinians if Hamas didn’t take part in the elections and Fatah ran against themselves and wan against themselves as how Israel would have proffered.They would have just used some other excuse for it.

    And Angry, Larry and the new bastard would have supported the killings, but used Fatah as the excuse and not Hamas.

  • Conrad

    As a Christian, Michael doesn’t reflect what I believe. Michael, stay in the New Testament and we’ll make it through this I pray. You do remember to Love Your Enemy. I agree it is extremely difficult and Chritianity has always been a theory never tested. It seems hate has got us no where in history and only Forgiveness and Love can get us through this. Lay off the self righteouness, none of us are God. Trust me I’m a sinner like everybody else. It seems pretty simple to me if we condemn injustice no matter who then we can work on Justice for everybody with the help of our Lord Jesus Christ You can Love someone and still hold them morally accountable. But if you guys insist on staying in the Old Testament ignoring the New Convenant of our Lord Jesus Christ with his fellow believers being the New Spiritual Israeli then I’m afraid the promise spoken of our Lord Jesus Christ that

    ” Put up again thy sword into its place; for all they that take the sword shall perish with the sword” will apply to you and your ilk. I pray not.

  • sandcrab

    Suhayl wrote: “You know, I would like to see peace – I have no desire to see Israel or any other place destroyed – but also justice. Because without the latter, there will never be the former.”

    Alas, that is not how it worked in South Africa and Northern Ireland. Resolution involved an amnesty and letting all sectarian gangsters and killers OUT of jail. The price of peace perhaps is forgiving the unforgivable.

  • Suhayl Saadi

    Maybe, sandcrab. I’m not sure about the Truth and Reconciliation thing in S. Africa. I think capitalism – US hegemony was the price. And we see the results of that, and many other endemic ills now. Desmond Tutu is an amazing guy though. Very personally generous, as well as politically astute. He’s not afraid to stand up and criticise the ANC.

    Conrad, God be with you, you’re a good guy, thanks for being around.

    ‘Me’, you’re hilarious, that’s really funny. Like Oliver Hardy.

  • Anonymous

    Conrad, Michael has nothing to do with Christianity. He is not Christian.

    He belongs is an armageddonite, also known as the Church of the AntiChrist.

    He serves the AntiChrist not Christ in the mistaken belief serving the AntiChrist will speed up the rapture.

    What they state is, “Jesus will come to deal with the AntiChrist”. So they choose to serve the Antichrist, support him and strengthen him so Jesus will come sooner to deal with him.

    They support Israel unconditionally because they believe Israel will be ruled by the antiChrist.

    They think if they do that, they can change sides in the last minute when Jesus arrives and enter eternal life.

    But the fact is, they are only guaranteeing their eternal damnation by such a foolish act.

    They can not serve God by serving the devil. This fact is obvious to everyone, but they blind themselves to it, just as they blind themselves to the evils of Israel starving people in gaza and murdering people trying to feed them.

  • sandcrab

    “Maybe, sandcrab. I’m not sure about the Truth and Reconciliation thing in S. Africa.”

    Me neither, and in NI the timely irish-american withdrawal of financial support for violent republicanism cannot be underestimated. But sincere conflict resolution studies have stressed the importance of placing the wrongs of hatred and fear in the past. The problematic parties have much different views on justice than they have on peace. They are separate goals.

    This video brilliantly records the courageous and noble stand of incredible peace activists.

    The mayhem to follow in the next section of the video account where the aggressors avenge the activists physical resistence to the illegal boarding will communicate the brutal military reality of the attack even more effectively.

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