Who Cares About Torture in the UK? 89


This is perhaps the best of eleven analyses I have found so far on major US blogs of the new material I recently posted proving a UK ministerial policy of torture.

http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2010/07/01/torture-and-truth/

I have done numerous foreign press interviews in the last two days, including Liberation, Boston Globe and Der Spiegel. But I got the brush off from the Guardian and Telegraph, no response from sending the documents to Channel 4 and the BBC, in fact precisely zilch from the UK media. What is wrong with this country?


89 thoughts on “Who Cares About Torture in the UK?

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  • avatar singh

    “the Guardian and Telegraph, no response from sending the documents to Channel 4 and the BBC, in fact precisely zilch from the UK media. What is wrong with this country?”

    the gaurdian is much more right wing paper than any I find in india-that is what is wrong with the country called uk/.

    look how much iraq war and afgansitan war was pimped up by the guardian-inf act after the war it kept mum about totrue saying ” we have to stabklise and maniatn hold there” the guardian and bbc were dreaming of another empire of thousand years! so hitleresque ,no?

    itis only becaus eof eforts and sacrifice of iraqi and afgani freedom fighters how foiled thes british desire tos tart empire again that the british media start tchanging tune and is now osing as somewhat abivalent and ,letting usa take all blame.!

    we must celebrate the c=achivement of iraqis and afgans who stopped the angloamerican in its march to the empire and lootin g of the world.

  • avqatar singh

    your comment-“Harvard Study: From 1930s-2004, NY Times called waterboarding torture in 81.5% of articles, LA Times in 96.3%. Yet from 2002-2008, NYT did so in only 1.4% and LA Times in 4.8%. The WSJ? 1.6% (1 of 63 articles) and USA Today never called waterboarding torture or implied it was torture.

    http://www.hks.harvard.edu/presspol/publications

    /papers/torture_at_times_hks_students.pdf”

    shopudl we not have the world jury judge and put to torture the biggest terrorist of world tony blair bastard and his monkey7 freind subhuman bush?

  • ingo

    Welcome back Tony, great to hear you have you guitar close to your heart and your music even closer.

    may your dad get back to his former self, as fast as Scousers talk.

    I very much agree with Clarks punching resumee and Vronsky’s assemssment.

    The future will be controlled and we better get sussed.

    I will tear myself away from beautifull Norfolk at the end of the month and go up north to help on Jamies Doune castle fair.

    I’m sure that there will be enough space to meet and talk, without mobiles, internet,etc. face to face talk.

    There are people like us all over the world and we will find ways to organise, Ruth is right, we should be instigating our own human rights torture inquiery of sorts, Holland is nearby and hopefully helpfull, regardless what the status quo is forcing the media to accept here.

    We should be approaching Dutch MP’s/Government ( know anyone?) and play on their liberal history, the disgusting way they were treated by Blair and his Goldie locks, regardless who chews the katt here to bamboozle the general public’s media consumption.

    I have no more time for any of the three leading parties, their agenda has melted into one Dogam and we cannot expect sense and certainty for our children from them, they have been to the cross road.

    What is now being presented to us is worth than George Orwell, not because its a copy of his predictions, but because the masses, the plastic consuming masses, accept it as gospel.

    lets speak to the young generation, lets take them into our fold and inform them as to what matters, i.e. help yourself to help others, communities are not dead, regardless of the multiple indoctrination that we are subjected to, a new dawn of politi.

    We are not programmed to perform the liars dance and we should teach our children to be aware of simple messages.

    So who’s coming for wee dram in the rabbit hole?. PS Suhayl, they will need a medical professional to sit by, health and safety and all that shit, you could be it and its only a spit away from you. For me, its more like a journey to the worlds end(a brilliant session pub in Watton, Norfolk), on foot.

    please if there is somebody going up there from further south, lets meet up somewhere like Peterborough and share the costs.

    Organising here, in full view of the MI clones is not condusive to the future of our kids.

    what do you say? Do we have a date in sunny Scotland? or are we going to carry on in this anonymous fashion?

    Tony, lets not quit earth whilst we are still cognitive and able to raise hell on wheels.

    If we do not like what pushes us into oblivion, then we have to shut out the diverted and abused normalcy that is presented to us, create our own norms.

    what have we got to loose? Money? a date? a piss up in the pub?

    Just to cheer you all up, this is the sort of stuff I have been partying to in my hay days, eat your heart out Macy Gray (she swallowed betty Davis hook line and sinker, good on her). ENJOY.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RWTt1biOZX4

  • tony_opmoc

    Scouse Billy,

    Well You Scousers did an absolutely FANTASTIC job of keeping My Mum Alive.

    You rebuilt her hip and you rebuilt her heart.

    She was born in London, and came back to her home to gracefully die.

    She didn’t quite make 100 – but you Scousers did a fantastic job.

    I am seriously considering moving back up North.

    My Son born in London has got nearly all his business in Manchester

    Lancashire People are Completely Out Of This World In Their Genuine Friendship and Warmth and I Can’t Get a Pint of Pendle Witch Down South

    And The Hospitals and The Doctors and Nurses Here Are All About Keeping People Alive.

    And They Speak LANCASHIRE

    Tony

  • Clark

    Tony_opmoc,

    good to hear from you again.

    Ingo,

    yes, a fine suggestion. I shall try to attend.

    All techies,

    it seems inevitable that the Internet will become a target for censorship. We need a contingency plan. I see the Internet as the physical substrate of an emerging global consciousness, it is too valuable to be permitted to slip away. I have an idea or two, there must be many more ideas floating around out there.

  • Clark

    Tony_opmoc,

    I lived in York for a few years, and spent quite some time in Leeds, Bradford and there abouts. I used to visit Essex to see my parents; there seemed to be more humanity and common sense Up North, so I’ve often wondered why you’ve been hanging on in London. I’ve been in Essex for years now, and I’m pretty pissed off with it.

  • tony_opmoc

    ingo,

    I am a man of limited resources. Whilst I brought up to Lancashire My Guitar, I didn’t bring my amp. I am just trying to learn ho to play it…

    But I did bring my Zen and quite a lot of cables..

    I am just trying to work out if I can find a way to play your link at 110 decibels.

    It is just completely Fucking Fantastic

    And so are we…

    There are so few of us around it is scary

    You are an ANGEL

    BETTY DAVIS -“They Say I’m Different” (1974)

    Tony

  • tony_opmoc

    Clark,

    When Margaret Thatcher closed down The North Of England – and us blokes from Oldham were being made redundant from the Highest Fucking Tech Company In The Entire World – We were 10 Years ahead of The Americans

    My mate said he would never work in London

    But he was better looking than me – and much more extrovert – he even got himself a job flogging cars whilst I was on the dole learning how to program Computer Games on a Commodore VIC 20 with 1K expansion cartridge

    And I was about to form my own company – doing computer games – and if I had I might have made loads of money from computer games

    But he got a job in Waterlooville – near Havant in Porstmouth probably working for the Competetion

    I Have Never Worked For an American Company

    I am English

    And We were the Fucking Best Then

    And We are The Fucking Best Now

    Sure I have worked with loads of Americans -who were Brilliant – But I have Never Given Away any Technical Secrets About How Manchester Is The Most Innovative Place In The World As Far as Computing Is Concerned which is Why My Son has Moved Almost All His Business There

    And I do Not Live in London

    Sure I have worked in London -but under my own terms

    Most of the time I was working in London I was working From Home

    I live in One of The Most Beautiful Villages In The World and Have Loads of Friends

    I travel into London occasionaly

    What pisses me Off is that I came down south before I had seen the Happy Mondays Live in Liverpool

    But I saw them last year

    And I met Lemmy in Soho

    You see I am stretched between The North and the South

    I have spent half my life Up North and Half Down South

    The Weather Tends To Be aLot Better Down South

    Like I was swimming naked in a mates swimming pool a couple of months ago when it was hot in May and he said come round for a BBQ

    They didn’t mind

    because Both My Wife and I Still Speak Broad Oldham and Wigan and She is a Heart of Gold – And Are Really Open – We Pull Loads of Friends because We Cut Through All The Bullshit – and then they try and Compete With Us – Because They Realise We are Completely Harmless

    Tony

  • Tony_Opmoc

    For the last 3 years or so since the websites in England were infiltrated by foreign agents who trashed nearly all discussion about contentious issues with complete and utter rubbish, I moved my virtual world and my virtual discussions to America…

    The Standard was Just So Much Higher.

    It was like posting on a UK website in 1997.

    People used their own real names and said exactly what they thought and recommended some completely amazing books..

    So for over a year I didn’t dare post a word.

    I was completely ignorant.

    Sure I had loads of time on my hands after retiring but I never had had the time to learn anything that was not connected to me earning a living to support my family.

    Now I had a pension – and time to Learn

    So I guess I fell in Love with America

    A place I have never been to

    The thing is I could play my word guitar – and they hardly ever deleted anything

    And sometimes I was not very nice

    But they always seemed to forgive me

    Whilst I realised I was occupying far too much of Craig Murray’s time deleting all my drunken rants such that he wasnt even reading them much before he deleted them.

    So I banned myself – because Craig is so much better – than having to spend his time deleting my drunken rants.

    I Love Him To Bits Though

    A Man of Rare Courage

    Can I have a walk On Part In Your New Film?

    I am the Bloke Who Looks Like The New Bloke in The Prisoner

    He comes from Lancashire Too

    Tony

    Tony

  • tony_opmoc

    Scouse Billy,

    I personally did not do it, though I do ride my bike a lot with my wife…

    No its not a Tandem – but an old couple did ride a tandem from our home at about 4:00am in the morning.

    They drunk two bottles of wine between them…

    But they are both musicians (from South Africa )

    So I thought Fuck It

    There is No Point in Going To Bed

    My wife said she wanted to see it – but I knew she wouldn’t get up so early..

    I did warn her and I had two cups of coffee to try and sober up

    I was by my local train station at around 5:50 am

    And I had my pole

    My monopod

    And I had my high definition camera – and I had my external microphone

    The thing is our Village Just Looks So Completely Fucking Beautiful

    And on The recording in Clear Sound One Of Them Said

    Where Are We?

    They Were In The Most Beautiful Village on The London To Brighton Bike Run

    I Can’t Post The Video Because I am Going To Bed and I haven’t edited it yet

    Tony

  • TheAlmighty

    Welcome back Tony,

    Do your guitar solo’s meander as much as some of your posts ?

    I prefer the three minute heros who are direct and catchy, but each to their own.

    There is much beauty in some of your postings. Keep on rockin.

  • somebody

    Shouldn’t Tony Opmoc have his own blog? It got to the stage before where you had to scroll through yards of his mainly self indulgent stuff to get to comments on Craig’s posts. Nothing personal btw.

  • Suhayl Saadi

    Anonymous poster at 1050pm: It’s an interesting hypothesis. I guess one would have to go through each of the new MP’s ‘portfolios’ and links and those of the ex-MPs, in order to assess whether, overall, there was any substantive difference with respect to to their relationship with the hard state. I mean, people like Norman Baker and Clare Short held fast, whereas some pro-war, etc. ones got the boot. Having said that, yes, I do think that the intelligence agencies continually leverage for more and more money and influence and getting ‘their’ people (eg. allegedly, Pauline Neville-Jones) into critical positions in the legislature which facilitates the economic war-machine is one of those tactics.

    My take – having not undertaken the above research in a systematic manner – is that the scandal may have had something to do with the City of London protecting itself from what it would consider to be inordinate regulation. Of course, the hard state and the world of finance are intimately, indeed systemically, intertwined – as I recently suggested on a previous post on one of these threads – and so whatever the underlying dynamics, one might view the whole as a tussle within the ruling elite.

    The hard state won.

    I think that even though the forthcoming Inquiry may well be – to a greater or lesser extent – a whitewash, as with the Bloody Sunday Inquiry we are likely to see dirty tricks being put into action against those MPs and others who might possibly pose a threat. In the end, the Bloody Sunday Inquiry absolved the state, and the highest levels of command, from systemic mass murder that day and also from engaging in a campaign of disinformation – obstruction of justice – for years afterwards. David Cameron’s apology was possible because of this.

    I expect a similar denouement with the ‘Torture Inquiry’. We may have our own ‘Lynndie Rana England’, our own ‘dog-handling trailer girl’ cinematic distraction. But the highest levels, and the structures and dynamics which they innervate, will remain untouched, fully-operative and indeed, possibly even enhanced.

  • Clark

    My feeling was that the expenses scandal was a distraction from the “bailout” of the banks. It didn’t really matter which MPs were affected or which escaped. What was important was that MPs be robbed of any moral authority with which to criticise the banks, question the bailout, or call for more governmental control of finance.

  • Chris Dooley

    @Clark

    Unless the bank bailout was predicted several years ago then the expenses scandal cannot be a media distraction.

    Heather Brooke had been fighting for the expenses details since 2004 (she almost lost everything she owned in doing so)

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heather_Brooke

  • Clark

    Chris Dooley,

    well, quite a few people saw the financial collapse coming, if not the bailout. But didn’t the expenses scandal start with certain revelations to The Telegraph (sorry, I’ve forgotten the details)? Maybe the timing of that was chosen.

  • Chris Dooley

    Clark,

    You may have a point with the way that the information was leaked to the Telegraph and then drip fed into the rest of the media for several weeks.

    The date set for the public access to the reacted information that Heather Brookes FOI requests forced, also predated the bailout by a few years.

    As a distraction tactic it does not seemed to have worked though, 4.5 Billion people have noticed the banksters antics. We still await their punishment for their failings though.

  • Suhayl Saadi

    Chris, the bankers have been rewarded. It’s the ordinary bank tellers – and a whole load of middle and working-class public and private sector workers – who have lost, or will lose, their jobs. The only situation in which the big boys – who are enmeshed with, and indeed defined by, the economy of perpetual war – will get their just desserts is not printable here, because it’s no longer conceivable.

  • Clark

    Chris Dooley,

    thanks for the Heather Brooke link. Yes, I see that the MPs expenses information was released at around the time that the courts ordered it. Respect to Heather Brooke. The link doesn’t say how the information ended up at The Daily Telegraph a month or two before the Commons said it would be published.

  • Anonymous

    Suhayl Saadi

    There is another dimension to this. The three Labour MPs and one Tory peer charged, may act as a deterrent to many other MPs/Lords who might get out of line. To my mind there should have been many others charged who were not, not to say they may still be charged in the future?. Goes to show others who have something to hide that they will be exposed, the government have files on them all.

  • Roderick Russell

    Yes, I expect it is all about the establishment and their intelligence services keeping the MP’s in line by pointing out just what could happen to them. After all MI5/MI6 must know all the MP’s secrets, and nobody is perfect. A little touch of light blackmail perhaps?

  • opit

    I read a novel about Tony Blair visiting the U.S.A. – and staying there because it was a ‘Safe Haven’ against prosecution for War Crimes. Not that it was under his name, of course. That was Entertainment.

    And that’s what it will remain.

    I have never understood how a grown man who has worked in the belly of the beast could fail to see ‘The Way Things Are’. Nor is that a matter of change from the past or what happens elsewhere.

    Extraordinary Rendition is an Oxymoron which was announced by the Yanks that the British would be subject to themselves right in the Commons. But it’s been a delightful thread nonetheless.

    I thought the ‘911’ crew too radical in their coverage for people to be capable of taking them seriously. Note that does not mean that I don’t think ‘Poisoning the Well’ Argumentation has not effectively turned people from actually looking at what might be possible in a world where Media Monopoly is enforced by secret Talking Points laying out what is Acceptable Reporting. Not that anyone outside Editorial Concerns is troubled with such. In the days when the trouble of individual opinions were distributed by Pamphleteers ways were found to discourage distribution of information troublesome to the power structure.

    Note that reporting such immediately consigns one to the epithet/pejorative labeling of Conspiracy Theorist.

    Myself, I have a problem accepting the spew of known paid corporate promotion and advertising staff as more credible than unpaid critics.

    So if you see me citing people you think ‘Over the Top’ do not be surprised.

    Under the category of ‘Law’ I think ‘Bilateral Immunity Agreements’ might be of interest. They represent international agreements to frustrate prosecution of War Crimes.

    Rick B. at Tenpercent put me on to stories about Belgium backing off from guaranteeing the protection of the International Court of Justice at the Hague. That would be prudent because of U.S. declaration that it would raid it to secure possession of any U.S. citizen covered under the 2002 American Serviceman Protection Act.

    Spain’s abortive efforts at prosecution likely fell afoul of the same pressures.

    I do not ‘rant’ at length about what is going on in the world. What I have done is collect articles about the ways our worldview is perverted. The posts on foreign policy and Perception Alteration are merely selected from things I have noted from comments and articles as I peruse punditry and politics. So today has been an interesting thread.

    So that you can actually find what I am talking about I have posted a page called Topical Index at opitslinkfest.blogspot.com

    I note it sometimes doesn’t Search properly and recommend going to that location rather than trying to go direct : but it’s your nickel.

    This information was first collected at my.opera.com/oldephartte/links where I proposed to list tips and tricks for finding information from years of surfing. Since it’s a personal list I know I’ve missed a lot. But it does give one a ‘Heads Up’ to sources otherwise ‘missed’ because they are not current, popular or otherwise obvious.

    Sometimes I have noted false flags of sites being dangerous related to really good sources. But I suspect my system has been trashed at least once because of where I was ‘nosing around.’ Obviously those are mostly ‘edited out’ – though there are no guarantees. I take care – and recommend you do the same.

    Original statement of what I thought my objectives were, etc. is at my.opera.com/oldephartte/about

    Or Search Opit’s LinkFest! if things are kludgey. Both have the same name. RSS reports from My Opera reposted under RSS SnapShot! give one a sample of how Personal Search can be augmented by other means than random search – and a chronological record of results regardless of the fact that they will have been replaced by more current data.

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