Fall of Tripoli 104

It seems that Gadaffi’s regime has collapsed very quickly at the end. It is difficult to be sure as yet, but it seems there may have been mercifully less further bloodshed than might have been feared. Thank goodness the NATO bombing campaign will now end.

It is plain that there is a great deal of support from ordinary citizens of Tripoli for the rebellion. Whether that translates into specific support for the leadership of the Transitional National Council is quite a different question. Getting rid of a bad government is difficult, but not as difficult as establishing a good one. The next few weeks will be very interesting.

The mainstream news media will move on in a few days, as it has moved on from Egypt. Not all pro-democracy demonstrators arrested under Mubarak have yet been released under the new military government there. However it is good to see anti-Israeli demonstrations are allowed. That is a major advance on the Mubarak years. NATO may yet find it equally difficult to hijack the Libyan people to their agenda.

Now of course NATO are free to move on to oust the despotic, torturing regime of Bahrain. Or not.

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104 thoughts on “Fall of Tripoli

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  • Courtenay Barnett

    @ Wendy,

    And here are the choices:-

    “and theres 30 000 rioters the police are looking to charge ..”

    1. Bring the troops home and stop the wars of aggression – then sensibly redeploy money and returning military persons in response to the UK’s socio-economic dislocations;or

    2. Spend more money building more prisons for a further 30,000 convicts and imprison for as long as possible with no, absolutely no, money wasted on their rehabilitation.

    Guess which option Cameron is taking?

  • Suhayl Saadi

    First, several of Qaddafi’s sons were captured, now it appears that at least two of them were never captured at all and that this ‘news’ was propaganda. Unsurprisingly, there will be much more of this to-ing and fro-ing of ‘unconfirmed reports from unnamed sources’ in the coming days. The psychological war rages. It appears that the battle for Tripoli will be bloody.

  • Donny Darko

    NATO troops have been there since the outset.All TV coverage of the so called rebels clearly show them disorganised and incapable of handling the weapons that have been handed and built for them.
    The fear in their faces is real as their NATO handlers push them to fill positions during the day which they bombed at night.They are being used.
    One of the main targets all along has been the Govt TV station as they have been showing the reality in Tripoli despite the NATO bombings.Cameron has said he wants British troops in there as “Peacekeepers”. Watch as they magically appear over the coming weeks to mop up the defenders of Tripoli,to keep the peace that NATO actually has broken.
    Ghadafi’s nickname Mad dog I think is pretty close, but he at least has Libya’s independence at heart,whilst whatever powers are behind the rebels certainly do not.I feel sorry for the Libyan people and ashamed that our country has yet again been party to aggression for as yet unexplained reasons.NATO is a bully and we really should leave this sick relic of the past behind.

  • John Goss

    @ Mark-golding. A very reasoned and reasonable report.

    NATO governments’ manipulation of the western press, it appears, has sent many young and untrained soliders to their deaths in making them think that the Gaddafi government was just about to topple, when this was clearly not the case. But what does NATO care about human loss? Oil is all NATO is interested in. It is the evil face of international organisations.

  • OldMark

    ‘Now the dumb world is intoxicated by BBC propaganda – swooning over the complete fantasy of a jubilant rebel victory in Tripoli celebrating the end of the war.’

    Mark G- yesterday’s propaganda about the ‘end game’ in Tripoli looks pretty rank this morning; it is Saif al-Islam who looks jubilant at the moment.

  • HG Wells ‘the alien’

    ‘The French and British have now backed down, and both have agreed that Gaddafi will be able to remain in Libya as part of any transition deal. That amounts to an acceptance that he will be the power behind the throne. The problem is, of course, that it is Gaddafi who is growing stronger and NATO which is growing weaker, with political will to keep killing crumbling as surely as NATO economies and currencies.’

    The moderator of your comments thinks I like to make parodies and apologizes for this thought. Quite right too. I am just trying to make serious contributions to the threads. I was only puzzled by some of the points made on the threads. Mr Murray seems to have made an error in his soothsaying and this makes me think that he might make other errors and this is important because I rely on the threads to help me understand the sinister forces, ‘the evil face of international organisations’ and the ‘the wheel of history’. As I repeat myself; please don’t cut my threads as you threaten to do with the YugoLarry man. I do not deserve such punishment for my curiosity. As a moderator I appeal to your sense of balance, which I know you have as it is clear from your description of Gadaffi’s socialist theory and your use of terms like neocapitalism.

  • tomtom

    Re the capture/non-capture of Saif al-Islam Gaddafi – it just goes to show that a lot of the news regarding Libya is propaganda tosh.

  • mary

    As you were saying Mark.
    There is another good comment on Media Lens from John Hilley in which he copies his e-mail to the BBC on the complete bias of Newsnight last night. The roll call alone of the guests is sufficient to confirm this. The theme was ‘Our side won’.
    Shashank Joshi, Royal United Sevices Institute
    Andrew Mitchell, International Development Secretary
    John Bolton, ex-US Ambassador to the UN and arch neoconservative
    Guma El-Gematy, UK Coordinator, Libyan National Transitional Council
    Rory Stewart, Conservative MP and former Deputy Governor in Iraq
    John Rentoul, Political Editor for the Independent and Tony Blair’s biographer
    Sir Richard Dalton, ex-UK Ambassador to Libya
    Elliott Abrams, Deputy National Security Adviser to George W Bush
    Lord Mark Malloch-Brown, Foreign Office Minister, 2007-09
    Rushanara Ali, Labour MP
    I did not watch or listen to any of the propaganda yesterday.

  • Jon

    @HG_Wells, I don’t understand much of your last post, but your sarcasm about my political balance is misplaced, as is your implication that I support Gaddafi. I don’t, as it happens, and my post on the topic made that quite clear. Most people here welcome differing views, but curiosity should be an addition to respect, not a replacement for it.

  • ingo

    here in Norfolk, Archant news press has finally shut/censored the last forum to current affairs debate, a single thread on the Pink Un.

    Now that the Canaries are in the premiere league, their footie forum, the ‘pink un’ has turned into an anodyne appreciation blog, come what may.
    All threads relating to politics as we know it, or current affairs not covered by the Eastern Daily Prattle, are banned and censored.
    Censored interaction is now taking place in their electronic version, again only comments on the few issues they cover, non of which are covered here, the dumming down and mis direction of news is carrying on.

    Non coverage is as much censor than false coverage and embellishment, not that Archant would agree.

    sorry for digressing into the Tripoli thread, looks like Hague loves Ghaddaffi after all, or is it just a ruse to get him out of his bunker?

  • Jon

    @vronsky – indeed. But on the DSK affair recently he was particularly busy. I wonder what it is about that issue that makes him/her/it/them so hot under the collar? Plenty of machinations going on under the surface, of course, given that he might otherwise have been running the IMF had he not resigned.

  • mark_golding

    I believe this thread has gained enormous importance because it clearly shows us that Western deception is rife and the deceivers have zero regard for an individuals life. Without being boringly philosophical, current thinking in the intelligence services and their ghastly think-tanks dictates collectivism rules over individualism whereas in my world individualism is the moral stance. Pages have been written on this so I will stop there, except for this example exposed in ‘Four Weeks in May’ by my friend retired Naval Captain David Hart Dyke.
    Even a ‘straight’ war like the Falklands embraced deception and saw the loss of a ship and many shipmates because the ‘powers’ dictated HMS Coventry would be sacrificed to deflect air-power from the landing site..
    All we can do is drape a Union Jack over the coffins and fire a volley of rounds in the air while young lives are terminated and mothers and families left with only memories. These men signed up for combat and risk but why increase those risks by betrayal?
    Deception is ‘de rigeur’ – the ‘war of terror’ is deception – please at least remember that this September anniversary.

  • Scouse Billy

    Thank you, John – there is still the issue of the Cabinet Office appealing the Information Commissioner’s decision that all documents should be disclosed unredacted.
    Speculation abounds regarding the Cabinet Office’s stance – could it be the preservation (sic) of Lady Thatcher’s reputation? I hope we find out but the families’ right to the truth and closure must come first.

  • mary

    I read the Murdoch Times in a cafe this morning. The first 12 pages were full of the most revolting propaganda imaginable, including the front page.
    I just heard a French NATO commander of Operation Unified Protector (you could not make that up) Col Roland Lavoire? speaking from Naples. He was introduced by a hard sounding NATO spokeswoman in Brussels giving the line that the end is near.

    The NATO-rabble-rebel-alliance is currently bombing Tripoli and are obviously going for an all out assassination of Gaddafi. What would my father have thought of state assassination happening 60 odd years after the end of WWII and the establishment of the Nuremberg principles? The intended assassination of Gaddafi follows the precedent of the killing of Bin Laden.
    One footnote I spotted in the Times. The well known self publicist Louise Mensch is claiming that a death threat has been made against her children. She has been told to get off Twitter. It is the silly season after all.

  • John Goss

    Guest. Very disturbing. Fat chance NATO will try and get the oppressed people of Bahrain to overthrow this despotic regime with a US base there.

  • mark_golding

    Thanks for link Guest – yes I have a fondness for Peter Dale Scott and his ‘deep events’ or events that are obscured and/or misrepresented in mainstream media, whose origins are mysterious but often intelligence-related, attributed to marginal outsiders, but intersecting with large and seemingly powerful but covert forces believed to have the power and the intent to influence history.
    I spend some hours a day exhaustively trying to penetrate these covert forces which even as each hour passes are becoming more feeble, more lame and ineffective at manipulating history and more absurd and ludicrous because the intention is created out of a lack of trust and fear and are certainly not made out of a greater good for all.
    This is cause and effect when the ’cause’ has not be identified correctly and perceived as a series of physical and mental steps that lead to the effect. To the objective observer that would appear to be the case. Yet these steps are the effect, the cause is our conscious and/or sub-concious decision to make something happen even if that decision seems outside our control.
    The universe itself works on the same principle. Think of it as the superconscious mind. When you’ve made a clear, committed decision, it will open the universal floodgates, bringing you all the resources you need, sometimes in seemingly mysterious or impossible ways because others can pick up that positive decision; it contains enough energy to travel through the medium that connects all of us. It is a simple process but our minds are are cluttered with the flotsam and jetsam of social conditioning and we have a hard time thinking on this level.
    You are using your consciousness to create what you want in a determined and positive way no matter how impossible it seems. Only ‘time’ is a restriction because our universe is based on time, it is a constant, nevertheless ‘in time’ if the cause is for the greater good it will be shared and achieved.
    I hope that answers the question, ‘what is the ‘power of intention’ I was asked some threads back.

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