Fall of Tripoli 104


It seems that Gadaffi’s regime has collapsed very quickly at the end. It is difficult to be sure as yet, but it seems there may have been mercifully less further bloodshed than might have been feared. Thank goodness the NATO bombing campaign will now end.

It is plain that there is a great deal of support from ordinary citizens of Tripoli for the rebellion. Whether that translates into specific support for the leadership of the Transitional National Council is quite a different question. Getting rid of a bad government is difficult, but not as difficult as establishing a good one. The next few weeks will be very interesting.

The mainstream news media will move on in a few days, as it has moved on from Egypt. Not all pro-democracy demonstrators arrested under Mubarak have yet been released under the new military government there. However it is good to see anti-Israeli demonstrations are allowed. That is a major advance on the Mubarak years. NATO may yet find it equally difficult to hijack the Libyan people to their agenda.

Now of course NATO are free to move on to oust the despotic, torturing regime of Bahrain. Or not.


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104 thoughts on “Fall of Tripoli

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  • mark_golding

    “Guma El Gamaty is the UK spokesman for the NTC. He says the rebel leadership is appealing to supporters not to resort to revenge violence: “Hopefully soon, in a few hours or a day or two, the city will be under total control of the freedom fighters, and then the NTC will move over to Tripoli and assume leadership of the country from there. Judging by what happened so far in Libya, there was no sign of the feared reprisal and breaking law and order and revenge and so on. So hopefully Tripoli will emulate the rest of the country and the way the rest of the country went – we have appealed and we are appealing to the people of Tripoli to keep calm.”
    BBC

  • Wikispooks

    Now of course NATO are free to move on to oust the despotic, torturing regime of Bahrain. Or not.
    .
    I fear that ‘Bahrain’ will be replaced with ‘Syria’ in that observation – plus the removal of ‘Or not’.

  • John Goss

    It appears that the Gadaffi compound is due to fall in the next two hours. Oliver Miles says the Lybian people should take the credit for any regime change, and that if NATO is given the credit the new regime will not last long. Nobody knows what the new regime will be like. It might have at its head another dictator. Let’s hope for the best.

  • Richard

    yes, one hardly need waste one’s breath/fingers to point out that when a dictator dies in his bed he is usually succeeded by his son, and when he is removed by a popular pro-democracy uprising, he is succeeded by a different dictator. Without a foreign conquest and occupation, there seems to be not even a theory on how to establish democracy after dictatorship; and ‘The West’ seems to have lost the instruction book for that now too. There are a few moderately encouraging examples from Africa and Latin America. Nicaragua, for instance worked out more or less OK, sort of, eventually. Those ex-Soviet-bloc states that have joined the EU (this seems the vital factor, the incentive of money!) have achieved or might soon achieve the level of democracy normal in Western Europe. Blimey! is that the best we can hope for? The system that gives you Berlusconi, Murdoch, Andreas Papandreou, Vaclav Klaus, Breivik, ETA…? Seems to be so.

  • ingo

    I hope you are right John Goss, because if the new leadership is not to our liking, alrerady this morning the s[pectre of Alquaeda in libya has been mooted, we will just invent another threat, the Larry’s of this world are barely covering their steps, they are dab hands at it.

    So if we don’t like who’s in charge and he is not mallable enough for international string pullers, he will be exchanged, rest assured no women will have a chance, nor will anyone who has had no ‘previous’ connections with any of the past colonial allies.

    Watch the suggestion for leadership come form the French, the Brits etc., they’ll be falling over themselves to get their placemen in charge, it will be a line up of sorts, a rogue’s gallery spectaculaire.

  • HG Wells 'the alien'

    ‘It is beyond despair.’ These were the words that I read on the threads not so long ago. Now I read that it seems that this view, sorry perspective, may have been false. Your leader writes: ‘It seems there may have been mercifully less further bloodshed than might have been feared.’ Again the threads are confusingly letting me down in their seemingness. Some people from the Libya country are saying that it is a ‘great day.’ Now I am in despair. I had been led to believe by many on the threads, like Mary and her followers, that the sinister forces behind the real events were making it all up and that the God Gadaffi was the resistance to these forces when it turns out that it was the other forces, backed up by the sinister forces, that were the cause of the great day.

    Then again, let us not dwell too much on the good/bad news from desert. Even though it has taken a lot of time and effort on the part of the NATO and the rebels, and even though the Gadaffi used to hang students from lamposts and fund the IRA, let us move on quickly and forget about this and begin again our renewed criticism of the sinister forces for doing or not doing other things.

  • John Goss

    H. G. W. Alien may not think it is merciful that less blood has been shed than was expected. But there has already been too much blood shed by NATO bombs going astray. NATO is not too interested in who dies, though from a bad publicity angle there is an obbligation to restrict civilian deaths. But NATO has only been making its presence felt in order for the West to get a lever into the oilfields of Lybia, just as the ‘allied forces’ did in Iraq.

  • Azra

    Craig,
    In Egypt the anti Israel and pro Palestinians demonstration were always allowed , I believed the regime considered them “letting off steam”, what was never allowed was the anti government demonstration. I lived few years in Cairo and even took part in couple of those demonstrations myself.

    What will happen in Libya, is anybody’s guess. Libya is as tribal as Iraq, but unlike Iraq, Shi´ite is almost non existence therefore at least there will not be Suni Shi’ite divide.

    My fear for Libya will be tribal rivalry and fight for power and influence.
    I hope to God they will think of the interest of the nation first(unlikely!)
    Evolution is much preferred to revolution specially if it is backed by foriegn powers, they would want their rewards no doubt!

  • mary

    @HG Wells ‘the alien’ …..I had been led to believe by many on the threads, like Mary and her followers, ….
    .
    I will ask you yet again to stop repeating your nonsense. You have not been led to believe anything by me and I do NOT have followers.
    .
    Who are you? Some sort of insert?

  • larry Levin

    BBC/Sky are pure establishement propagandists in the mold of Pravda, Russians had to learn how to read pravda between the lines,

  • Tom Welsh

    “Getting rid of a bad government is difficult, but not as difficult as establishing a good one”.

    Well, we in the UK should know. I voted unhesitatingly to get rid of New Labour, but now I wonder if the ConDems are really any better. And there is absolutely no prospect of getting rid of the whole parcel of rogues who run our country – the system is firmly entrenched.

    I hope that NATO will now swing into action to bomb any of Libya’s new masters who harm civilians. I fear it will not – something along the line sof “if they have been harmed, they must have been Qadafi supporters”. Rather like the bombings in Asia, where anyone killed or maimed automatically becomes a member of al-Qaeda.

  • HG Wells 'the alien'

    I must apolgise. It is true that it is not true that you have followers. I will not say this again: I have been led, however, to believe certain things that hqve not turned out to be true by yourself and the other comments on the threads who have suggested, and suggest, that I should not be on the side of the sinister forces, ever. However, it turns out that the sinister forces are not as stupid as some people had suggested and that some of the Libyans were not happy with their ex-leader. I found these words on the threads which led me to side with the threads. Don’t be too worried though brave commentators as it appears that your leader Craig made one the biggest errors.

    ‘Our very evil leaders are capable of bombing mummies and children in Libya,’ used to make me see the reality.

    ‘Totally pathetic’, used to describe the actions of the sinister forces:

    ‘for rebels read rabble’, ditto:

    ‘Libya – a war policy in chaos’, ditto:

    ‘Any moves towards a diplomatic solution in Libya would be welcome, but one thing is for sure, for them to have any chance of success the NATO bombardment will have to end.’|

    And from your leader.

    ‘The French and British have now backed down, and both have agreed that Gaddafi will be able to remain in Libya as part of any transition deal. That amounts to an acceptance that he will be the power behind the throne. The problem is, of course, that it is Gaddafi who is growing stronger and NATO which is growing weaker, with political will to keep killing crumbling as surely as NATO economies and currencies.’

    Like I said in my previous contribution to the threads, though, we should not let these problems in our observations stop us from our continued criticism of the sinister forces who work behind the real news and I for one will continue to acquire all my information about events on your planet from the threads and will not ever listen to what your leader describes as ‘the mainstream media’, even though they have their people in the Libya.

  • General Dostum

    Now of course NATO are free to move on to oust the despotic, torturing regime of Bahrain. Or not.

    – How about Uzbekistan?

  • mike cobley

    quoth Larry – “BBC/Sky are pure establishement propagandists in the mold of Pravda…”

    Surely you mean in the mould of the Wall St Journal or the Washington Times? C’mon, do keep up!

  • Anon

    “mercifully less further bloodshed than might have been feared.”
    .
    “Kill one man, and you are a murderer, kill millions and you are a conqueror, kill them all and you are God.”
    .
    There are many on this world who think they are God.

  • HG Wells ‘the alien’

    ‘Please tell me more Mary – an area of study for me.’ Here; I have found amoung the silence of the followers of Craig this morning someone who wanted to follow you.

  • mark_golding

    We learn that NATO was indeed bombing and using drones in the defeat of Tripoli. This has been omitted of course from the BBC and many other news outlet reports. Agent Cameron fails to explain to us that Britain did indeed take advantage of the Arab Spring to divide and crush the State of Libya. The main purpose was to covet and prevent oil imports to China and oil deal completions with Russia.
    .
    The next step in the plan is to crush Syria and divide Iran. Britain is well aware the threat that exists from Iran is not her nuclear program but the belief that China and/or Russia will supply her with nuclear bombs in the event of war. To some here this may sound totally absurd but the case is real in the corridors of Peerage power.
    .
    This hegemony can only be prevented by exposing the ‘Big Lie’ of 11 Septembre: L’Effroyable Imposture. This is the West’s greatest fear. The governments of Britain and America must contain the official line at all costs. They know that trust in what they do is paramount to maintain the majority of their people’s support for a Capitalist society based on their model of democracy.
    .
    The intention is to keep forces and bases in Afghanistan and Iraq ad infinitum from where any strikes will initiate. Britain and America will do this despite the grave economic risks, because quantitative easing will always allow the IOU’s to be replaced by printing money.
    .
    I hope to convince you that your children’s children will live in a dark and dangerous world of deceit and ‘them & us’ apartheid unless we are prepared to back the scientific evidence of the ‘Big Lie’ with active support. Right now governments of Europe and America have directed their public media ie broadcasting, including History, Geo and other channels, also major political Internet sites to prepared and transmit and propagatea major propaganda exercise reinforcing the official government report of the events of 11 Septembre beginning on September 5th in the run up to the tenth anniversary.
    .

  • HG Wells ‘the alien’

    This man Mr Golding has disturbing news for us all. He is telling about the corridors of peerage power where there is a hegemony that is lying about September 11th. This is called the big lie and it is coming to us through the history channel and other channels. I think the implication is clear: Mr Golding has the real information and all the mainstream media are working for the sinister forces. Please turn off your tv sets now and focus on the words of Mr Golding. Thank the supreme creator of the universe for the threads for now we know the truth is possible. My confidence is restored. Your paragraphs are all we need.

  • Guest

    “You are attracting the nutters again, Mark – nice one”
    .
    Yes, you can always tell when Mark hits a home run, it brings the zionist hasbra/hasbara out in force. Keep up the good work Mark.

  • Parky

    Maybe Blair could be coerced to become the new Leader of Libya. I’m sure he can talk the folks round to see reason. He did seem to make friends with the Colonel when he visited him in his tent a few years ago.

  • Dr Paul

    One has to admit that the big powers have managed pretty well a regime change on the cheap. A brilliant move to hijack a popular revolt and getting it to adopt their agenda. Of course, the incoming government will be a ragbag and I can foresee many of the problems of post-invasion Iraq being repeated here with former Gaddafi heavies jockeying for position with Islamists, regionalism and general mayhem, but, still, so long as the oil flows, who’s to worry?

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