Anti-Scottish Propaganda 153


I guess we are in for a full three years of anti-Scottish lies from the mainstream media. One of the most common unionist lies is that Spain would veto Scottish independence, as claimed in today’s Independent. This canard has been about for years and is assiduously spread by unioinists. I have discussed it in the past with senior Spanish diplomats, and they have been unanimous that it is impossible that Spain would seek to veto Scottish membership.

Firstly, nobody in the EU has ever left the EU voluntarily, let alone been expelled, and the idea that 5 million EU citizens in a stongly pro-EU country would be thrown out against their will is not in the realm of practical politics. The whole dynamic of the EU is expansive, with countries continually accepted into membership who technically should not be. Everybody knows, for example, that Romania and Bulgaria were not remotely close to compliance with the acquis communitaire when they were admitted. There is no appetite anywhere in the EU to argue that an EU member successor state would have to re-apply.

Secondly, Scots are much liked internationally. There is a strong popular understanding throughout Europe of Scottish desire for independence – bagpipes, Braveheart and a separate football team are an intrinsic part of this strong Scottish popular recognition. There are no votes in Europe in being beastly to the Scots, and that includes Spain. The Spanish government are not stupid. It would be very unpopular in Spain to act against the Scots, and would infuriate the Catalans and actually boost the independence movement there. Tactically, there are times when it is best to pretrend to be relaxed about self-determination, as Cameron is doing.

Thirdly, there is a real difference here with the Kossovans. Spain does not oppose Slovenia, Croatia or other parts of the former Yugoslavia from EU membership. It did not oppose the Czech Republic or Slovakia. Spain does not automatically argue against EU membership for splitting states – that is a lie spread by English unionists. Unlike Kossovo, the Scottish state is not inextricably linkes with organised crime, and is not outside the EU.

Finally, as an example of Unionist lies and tricks, read the Independent article very carefully. You will see that the anaonymous “source” of the claim that Spain will veto Scottish EU membership is not anything to do with the Spanish government, but a Whitehall official.

The actual headline of the article should be:

“Whitehall Official Lies that Spain Would Veto Scottish EU Membership”.


153 thoughts on “Anti-Scottish Propaganda

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  • craig Post author

    Mary,

    Yes, Brian is quite good. He should have made it more clear that his source here was not Spanish though.

  • mike cobley

    I feel we should have some clarity here, Craig – are you saying that any argument from any quarter that opposes independence is intrinsically anti-Scottish?

  • Ed Davies

    “Firstly, nobody in the EU has ever left the EU voluntarily, let alone been expelled,…”

    Technically that’s right as far as I know. However, Greenland did leave the EEC in 1985 prior to it becoming the EU in 1993.

    But yes, the impression I get is that most other EU countries would, given the choice, rather have Scotland as a member than England.

  • Guest

    Those who want to keep the union are going to try every trick in the book to keep it that way!. I am waiting for stories about SNP/MSPs to appear in the mainstream media, both in their financial dealings and private lives, there is no doubt what so ever that the security services have/will be working on both the above at this moment and will drip, drip them to the newspapers with emphasis on the few months before the referendum vote, whenever that will be. All this is going to get very nasty.
    .
    Whatever you may think ?, the powers that be were mortified when people returned six SSP/MSPs to the scottish parliament, whatever you may think ?, the fact is there are now NONE!.

  • Ed Davies

    On further thought, Greenland is an interesting precedent in that it gained a degree of independence from Denmark whilst remaining in the then EEC, in 1979. It only later left the EEC, in 1985.

    I speak with great knowledge on this subject. Well, actually I had a vague recollection of the general idea then had a quick look at Wikipedia.

  • Tom Welsh

    “the Scottish state is not inextricably linked with organised crime…”

    Well, not since the end of New Labour at least.

  • MJ

    I would have thought that an independent Scotland would be best off outside the EU and with its own currency. Iceland is a good model. It would also mean that Scotland would be able to claim as its own its rich North Sea and Atlantic fishing waters.

  • Greg Dunn

    Yes totally agree. The London Establishment will do all the can to manipulate the situation in their favour by all unfair means at their disposal.

    The fact is that the last fully independent Scottish Parliament was voted out of existence due to English bribes of money and land to corrupt Scottish nobles who put personal gain ahead of their country. It is totally amazing, to me, that at no time have the people of Scotland [or Wales for that matter] ever had a say in whether they want to be a part of the English dominated “Union” or not.

  • Guest

    “The London Establishment will do all the can to manipulate the situation in their favour by all unfair means at their disposal.”
    .
    Greg Dunn
    .
    NOT just “The London Establishment”, as you say…”English bribes of money and land to corrupt Scottish nobles who put personal gain ahead of their country.”…thats the problem, they are still around, and many in positions of power and influence.
    .
    MJ, totally agree.

  • JOHN STACK

    You totally misunderstand Scottish patriotism. It is not about hatred of England. There is very much to admire about them. Just step back and look. Step back some more and they look even better.
    Step back 300 miles (London to Edinburgh) and roll back 300 years of assimilation and they look perfect. Look on the English with Christian charity. God made them like that.
    If you are not a true Scot (if you have to ask, you’r not) you are welcome as a guest. But as a guest have the decency not to move the furniture or make changes in the Land you now love. SCOTS own it.
    Patriotism is fully positive. Identification of ones own free land is basic. Breathing clear free air, or walking over totally free hills is uplifting. As the first letter says a materialistic system cannot put a true value onto values it does not understand.
    Successfully colonising a land is not democracy or freedom or justice. If Justice is not given IT WILL BE TAKEN. Why not do it the easy way. A lot of English would die on the spot to defend their Englishness “my country right or wrong” Why not see that Scots are the same. For one side, Scots, it is over. Instead of a divorce try a separation. Then have a referendum to see if you want a Union again. The wind of change and separation will blow out a failure or enhance a good union. “Dont ask what your Country can do for you……….”. In the jigsaw of your life Scotland is the piece over your heart. You can never be at truly peace without it. You can love a Land for what it can do for you or for how beautiful it is. Or you can love it despite any negative things. Thats patriotism. If you don’t feel it in your heart you should not try to force real Scots into your flat colourless world.
    Be brave. Be Scottish. Be wary . Only a few patriots are needed to keep the flame alive. Treat them well for they hold your dreams.
    Craig, thanks for the use of the pulpit! Only spirit will do it, there is so much fear.

  • Mary

    Agree Greg Dunn.
    .
    Today, just 1250 or so landowners own two thirds of Scotland.
    .
    This is mainly the aristocracy and rich individuals: the largest landowner, after the Forestry Commission, is the Duke of Buccleuch (270,900 acres). He owns estates, castles and palaces in Selkirkshire, Dumfriesshire and Dalkeith palace in Edinburgh. A keen hunter, he is said to have donated £3/4m to the Countryside Alliance.
    .
    Many of these landowners are represented by the Scottish Rural Property and Business Association (SRPBA), formerly the Scottish Landowners’ Association, based in Musselburgh just outside Edinburgh. As well as the shooting and deer-stalking estates, many are given over to monoculture forestry or the type of farming that seems more interested in EU subsidies than food production or effective land management.
    .
    The largest foreign landowner (and one of the richest men) in Scotland is a Dutchman, Paul Van Vlissingen, owner of Calor Gas and the Makro cash-and-carry empire. ‘Environmentalist’ Vlissingen, who wants to reintroduce the wolf and the lynx to Scotland, owns the Letterewe Estate in Ross and Cromarty (around 80,000 acres). His partner, Professor Caroline Tisdall, is on the board of the Countryside Alliance and has said that she will ‘die in a ditch to defend hunting’.
    .

    Van Vlissingen is the inspiration behind a scheme to privatise many of Africa’s national parks, helping to found the South African company, Africa Parks Management and Finance Company.
    /..
    http://www.corporatewatch.org.uk/?lid=1308

  • Michael Follon

    In response to Ed Davies (comment number 5) –

    “…However, Greenland did leave the EEC in 1985, prior to it becoming the EU in 1993.”

    At the present moment Greenland (which is not a Member State of the EU and never has been) is a Commonwealth within the Kingdom of Denmark (which is a Member State of the EU) but is not yet a fully independent country. It chose to leave the EEC in 1985 due to “the EEC’s commercial fishing regulations and a EEC ban on seal skin products.” – Wikipedia.

  • Guest

    “Duke of Buccleuch”
    .
    The “Buccleuch” family also own many acres of land in England if memory serves me right. No doubt given for past services rendered.

  • Doug Daniel

    The fact is no one knows for sure what the exact situation will be if Scotland votes to become independent. It’s almost certain that Scotland will not be treated as a complete outsider to the EU and require to go through the full joining process, mainly because Scots are already EU citizens, and if only because of the logistical nightmare it would present, it’s completely unthinkable to suggest that Scots would see all their EU rights taken away from them.

    It may be that there is a simple majority vote on letting Scotland remain. It may be that both Scotland and the UK are treated as successor states. Personally, I find it hard to believe the EU won’t just decide that, as the landmass of Scotland is already in the EU, as the people of Scotland are already EU citizens, and as Scottish businesses and organisations are already under EU regulations, that Scotland is already in the EU, and thus no further action is required. But until we know for sure, it is silly for people to state their opinion as if it were fact – unfortunately, this is what unionists do, as the recently-rebuffed lies about Scotland having to get permission to use the Sterling show (which Scottish Labour MSP Ken Macintosh was trying to perpetuate on today’s Sunday Politics Scotland, despite the deputy leader of Labour in Scotland, Anas Sarwar, admitting this was untrue on the very same show the previous week).

    Quite simply, if there is some sort of vote on whether Scotland gets to stay in the EU, Scotland will remain in the EU – we will be one of the strongest economies in the EU, we are one of the main oil producers in the EU, and we have the potential to provide 25% of the EU’s total marine renewable energy. Unless the EU suddenly decides to become masochistic, there is no danger of them letting Scotland leave – especially when, as Craig has already pointed out, the EU is all about expansion.

    If the EU had to choose between either Croatia or Scotland being in the EU, I think it’s fairly obvious who would they would choose…

  • Tom Welsh

    “Err, MJ, I think you’ll find that Iceland are currently in the process of negotiating their accession to the EU…”

    That’s amusing and instructive, Doug. On Slashdot it would earn you lots of karma.

    The grass is always greener on the other side of the fence, eh? Unfortunately, grass is just grass.

  • Guest

    “The fact is no one knows for sure what the exact situation will be if Scotland votes to become independent.”
    .
    Sad to tell you this but you are wrong on that one!, whatever happens you can be 100% it will turn out in the end to be as right wing or nearly as right wing as England, not only will England make sure of that also the USA and EU will make sure of that. I will also tell you that if Scotland goes independent the SNP will soon enough fade away and you will find the new labour party back in charge in double quick order…Time will tell.

  • Doug Daniel

    Guest – “Sad to tell you this but you are wrong on that one!, whatever happens you can be 100% it will turn out in the end to be as right wing or nearly as right wing as England”

    Really? I’m wrong to say no one knows for certain what will happen? What, are you a fortune teller or something? Or are you an EU official who has an envelope containing the secret plans for the expulsion of Scotland post-independence?

    Do you not understand what this post is about? It’s about the situation of Scotland in relation to membership of the EU directly after voting for independence. You’re waffle is just a generic pessimistic outlook about the general state of affairs in Scotland in the future. Maybe try and reply to what people are actually saying?

  • pangloss

    Hey Craig:

    CBC is least, I don’t always expect this from our public broadcasting corporation, doing it’s part to inform Canucks about the upcoming referendum:

    http://j.mp/wrrQoU

    The part re the referendum starts about 8’20” .

  • Erchie

    Mike

    Opposing Scottish Independence doesn’t make you “anti-Scottish”

    However, if you are trying to thwart the only body that has a party elected to hold such a Referendum to take control to Westminster, then tat is anti-Scottish.

    Unionism may have a strong case to make, we haven’t heard one yet, but it might, Unionism is a valid point of view. But saying to the electorate of Scotland “stuff you and your votes, only Westminster shall command this”isn’t

    Or do you see such an act as pro-Scottish?

    Perhaps Westminster saving those silly Scots from themselves?

  • Guest

    “What, are you a fortune teller or something?”
    .
    You should not belive in such superstitious nonsense!, I am a realist.

  • Helen

    I don’t give two hoots whether Scotland will be in or out of the EU should the vote be for Independence. It’s not abot what currency we might be allowed to have (who told an Independent America what currencey they were PERMITTED to have, or limited to choosing? Crivvens!)

    This referendum is not about the EU, it is not about Spain, it is about whether we Scots, having lent ourselves to the Westminister Parliament, want to take our political decision-making back into our own hands or not.

    When I decided to marry my husband, I decided to marry him because I thought we could build a decent life toghether. I certainly did not decide on the basis of what kind of job he had, what kind of house we’d have, or indeed what kind of wedding dress or how big would the reception be.

    This decision should be similar. If we choose Independence, then like all things in life, we’ll figure out the rest, ourselves as we go along.

    Establishment, get a grip.
    Craig, thank you for providing the truth.

  • Jives

    Yes,the Establishment and spook dirty tricks will go into overdrive.Prepare yourself for lots of sordid exposes about Nat Mp’s having flings with secretaties,three in a bed romps with hookers and coke and the usual Sean Connery living in Spain stuff.I’m also sure the spooks will have had lots of juicy personal info on Salmond stashed away for just such a scenario.There will be many economic nightmare stories finagled by the Establishment’s favourite nedia-whores etc.
    .
    Plus ca change…

  • Mary

    Bawbag. That’ a good one and new to me. Urban Dictionary, leaving the rude bits out –
    .
    Glasgow, Scotland origin, derogatory name given to one who is annoying, useless or just plain stupid.
    .
    Very apt for the shiny-domed one prone to wearing a baseball cap when out with his pal.

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