Gould-Werritty – the Dodgy Diaries and Deleted Documents

by craig on February 7, 2012 9:38 pm in Uncategorized

Diary entry 27 Sep 2010
Diary entry 8 Sep 2009
Diary entry 6 Feb 2011

The Foreign and Commonwealth Office has finally, this evening, released the Gould/Werritty diary entries under the Freedom of Information Act. The three links above are the diary entries for their meetings on 8 September 2009, 27 September 2010 and 6 February 2011. You may have to click a few times to get the full size image. The lines across the page usually run right across the main right centre column. The entire column, with all the details on the Adam Werritty meeting, has been redacted – literally cut out.

The same is true of all eight of the diary pages I have been sent for Gould’s meetings with Adam Werritty – all information has simply been censored. We can only speculate what is there, who else was present and the subject of the meetings.

If anyone doubts there is a cover-up of massive proportions on what Werritty was actually doing, doubt no more.

But there is one item the very existence of which is entirely damning of the FCO. An email exchange between Gould and Werritty. The emails themselves are bland and avoid mentioning the subject under discussion. But the email exchange was with Matthew Gould’s official email address on the FCO system. My initial Freedom of Information request received the reply that there was no material relating to Adam Werritty on the FCO system. These emails had therefore been deleted off it.

Fortunately, whoever deleted them had forgotten something – the FCO system allows you to attach relevant documents to your electronic diary entries. That created a copy which survived after the correspondence was deleted everywhere else on the system.

That opens up a massive question – who deleted the correspondence, and why, and how much other Gould-Werritty correspondence has been deleted from the FCO system which did not survive by chance attachment to a diary entry?

There is a further question – did the deletions happen after my Freedom of Information inquiry – which would have been a criminal offence?

I have always held it to be impossible, for example, that not one of the eight Gould-Werritty meetings was minuted. If an FCO official has a substantive meeting with somebody outside government, it is standard procedure to record it. One of those meetings even included Mossad officials. The email correspondence which survived on the diary entry but had been deleted everywhere else, shows at least some Werritty material was deleted from the FCO system. Is this what happened to the minutes and records of meetings?

The surviving email exchange is bland, but it still tells us quite a lot. It shows that Gould and Werritty were on first name terms in June 2010, when Gould was Hague’s Private Secretary, that Werritty had Gould’s mobile phone number and that Werritty was sufficiently established to be able to phone up the Secretary of State’s Principal Private Secretary – an extremely busy man – and book him for coffee and a chat on his own recognisances, without feeling the need to reference any organisation or subject of discussion:

From: Matthew Gould (Restricted)
sent: 11 June 2010 14:51
To: Adam Werritty
Subject: RE: Hi
Adam -yes, I did get the message, and asked [my PA -name redacted] to set something up for us. She will eb in touch this afternoon.
Looking forward to seeing you,

Matthew Gould
Principal Private Secretary to the Foreign Secretary
Foreign and Commonwealth Office
King Charles Street
London SW1A 2AH
I2J email: Matthew.Gould@fco.gov.uk til telephone: +44 20 7008 2059 ()) ft.n: 8008 2059
Q uri: MailFilterGateway has detected a possible fraud attempt from “blocked::http:” claiming to be www.fco.gOY.uk

From: Adam Werritty [mailto:adam@werritty.comj
sent: 11 June 2010 14:48
To: Matthew Gould (Restricted)
Subject: Hi
Hi Matthew
I trust that you’re keeping well. I texted you yesterday on a mobile number I had for you but I’m guessing that you’re no longer on that number. I wanted to check if we could arrange for a chat next week over coffee as I’m keen to pick your mind on something. Could you let me know if you’re going to be around and when would suit?
As ever
Adam Werrity
M: +447921577884

Diary entry 16 Jun 2010 – email exchange

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  2. Good stuff Craig, carry on sleuthing.
    I wonder whether more emails like the one you’ve uncovered haven’t actually been deleted, just “accidentally not found” for the purposes of your FOI request. On that basis, now would be a good time for someone working for the IT department to take a copy, and to accidentally post a copy to you…
    It’s worth bearing in mind that the older an email is (especially on an important system like the FCO), the harder it is to summarily delete. Email archives get transferred to backup tapes and offsite storage facilities, and so it can be a nightmare deleting every copy. (This is why privacy requests to delete Facebook accounts and the like can be so onerous for the systems administrator – and usually come with a proviso that only immediately accessible personal data will be removed – since it can sometimes be an intensive task to do completely.)
    So, even if emails appear not to be available for the purposes of FOI, they probably still exist somewhere. All you need is a friendly mole!

  3. Very timeous, Craig. Syria will have to do as a main course, now that Iran appears to be off the menu. Russia and China seem to have other ideas, thank fuck.
    Libya was the starter (were Iraq and Afghanistan a different banquet entirely?) and I have to ask: where are the BBC and CNN? They were crawling all over the NTC before Gaddafi was murdered and the war “ended”. Libya is turning into a lawless mess and now there’s no sign of John “Liberator” Simpson!
    Let’s have another dispatch from the Malabar Front and another four Muslims banged up for LOOKING AT the Houses of Parliament and Big Ben!!

    Note: Big “atrocity” in Homs just before the UN security council vote. Hmmm…

  4. MerkinOnParis

    7 Feb, 2012 - 10:25 pm

    It stinks!!

  5. In the two e-mails shown, Werritty appears as the one calling the shots and Gould as doing his bidding.
    Disgraceful affair.
    Demolish the lot immediately and boot the occupants out. http://www.fco.gov.uk/en/about-us/our-history/our-buildings/buildings-in-uk/king-charles-street/building

  6. As yourself in a precedent post I am quite surprised that the FCO actually considered your FOI request. It would seem that there are still some honest public servants left, which is most unexpected and welcome development.

  7. Mary

    All in favour of booting the occupants out but demolish the buildings? George Gilbert Scott, same architect as StPancras, and beautiful to me.

  8. Mike wrote: “Note: Big “atrocity” in Homs just before the UN security council vote. Hmmm…”
    From Pepe Escobar’s blog
    “So what’s really happening on the ground in Homs? Here are sections from a crucial e-mail sent by a trusted Syrian Christian source:
    Many Syrians are ecstatic about the double veto but Homs is very worrying. The opposition spread news about a massacre just before the vote and they quoted numbers in the hundreds … unbelievably quoted by all news channels (all based on “activists”) without any verification, only to bring the number down to something like 33 later. They never showed any bombing or taking people under rubble or any injured people … just clean-bodied men with their hands and feet tied up and shot mostly once and only in their underwear. Whatever the Syrian government has in its arsenal it seems there are very intelligent bombs that can strip and tie up people then shoot them in the head!!

    What many believe now is that the bodies shown tied up and shot in Khalidiya and which are alleged to be “men, women and children” killed by a bombardment of the Syrian army were nothing but kidnapped Syrian soldiers. Add to them kidnapped Alawites who were not liberated (or actually exchanged). When the FSA kidnap some people, Alawites started to kidnap in return to exchange the prisoners. This doesn’t always work and some people who weren’t “exchanged for” turned up dead in Khalidiya”
    Very messy. Fortunately we have paragons of integrity such as government ministers and MSM reports to reduce this complexity to some thing mere mortals could understand.

  9. It will take a good journalist [if you don’t secure sufficient media access yourself] to spell out the subtleties of your excellent forensic work in a way that grabs wider attention.

    Is it worth asking the information Commissioner to look at this saga of protracted tooth-pulling as an example of the value of the FOIA; but that it would be of much greater value if Whitehall did not go to inordinate lengths to obfuscate, in defiance of bothe letter and spirit of the law.

  10. Iain

    Delighted you are with us again after your hospital experience!

  11. Interesting looking into werritty’s email address.
    The DNS records werritty.com are hidden behind an intermediary in the US. Werritty.com is now possibly out of use.
    The mail server mail.werritty.com is hosted on cmlapp07.csee.securepod.com which is based in the US. So email between Werritty and Gould was passing through, and possibly being stored, in the US.
    It is mildly amusing to see some of the other domains hosted on the securepod machine:
    mail.slickside.com, … mail.gaystraightandbeyond.com, mail.pornlinking.com
    Others include mail.ericpickles.com (!!!)
    Strange unintentional bedfellows!
    Ooops the source:

  12. “MailFilterGateway has detected a possible fraud attempt from “blocked::http:” claiming to be http://www.fco.gOY.uk”


  13. Brilliant work Craig. Your blog is stupendous and prised open my eyes to the deficiencies of the mainstream press.

    You are the OB1 Kenobi of the Information Wars. Keep doing what you do so well.

  14. @Giles – I noticed that, but the transcription from the image is wrong. Should be ‘gov’, of course!

  15. In relation to Iain’s point, I think it is worth writing to the Information Commissioner. I normally find them quite toothless, and their pronouncements quite timid, but there is sufficient evidence here to mount a FOI prosecution. Leading right up to O’Donnell too, though I doubt they’d go that far!

  16. I need to digest this latest revelations. Wholesale redactions of the diary appointment, ffs it is not minutes, but the stuff is censored all the same.
    Democracy, duncyou love the smell of it in he morning?
    Who was/were attending these meetings, and what was Werrity trying to pick up? I assumed he only did that with Fox.
    Thanks Craig, for all your hard work.

  17. What a can of worms! Craig, it’s impossible to over-state the importance of what you are doing here, especially as the main stream media are so obviously derelict in their duties and the government opposition is not worthy of the name.

  18. 8 Feb: YNet News: Israel embassies preparing for Iran strike?Diplomats statione in Israel request gas masks, prepare contingency plans in case of missile attacks; envoys fear that thousands of dual-citizenship Israelis will seek
    In the framework of the preparations for possible fallout in case of an Israeli strike on Iran, foreign diplomats stationed in Israel requested that the Foreign Ministry equip them and their family members with gas masks…

  19. Sing If Your Proud To Be Goy

    8 Feb, 2012 - 5:42 am

    “@Giles – I noticed that, but the transcription from the image is wrong. Should be ‘gov’, of course!”

    Ha! Not just a Freudian slip by the chosen ones then? Oi vay, I’ll get into trouble for saying that.

  20. DownWithThisSortOfThing

    8 Feb, 2012 - 5:52 am

    “All in favour of booting the occupants out but demolish the buildings? George Gilbert Scott, same architect as StPancras, and beautiful to me.”

    It’s a small price to pay considering the desire of many of the occupants to March lockstep with the Israeli controlled US towards global domination, which will only lead to nuclear conflict with China and Russia, turning most of London into smooth green glass.

  21. What’s wrong with having paragraphs on this commenting system? Paragraphs are vital for readability. Well annoying.

  22. Happy & Sneezy

    8 Feb, 2012 - 7:09 am

    Hi Ho, Hi Ho, It’s Of To Work We Go
    in a study published last year, researchers found that Israeli judges making the difficult and sensitive decision of whether or not to grant parole opted to do so in roughly 65% of cases after lunch, and hardly ever just before.
    From an irrelevant Guardian article – /lifeandstyle/2012/feb/07/why-willpower-matters
    Here’s a relevant one:
    Funny how the establishment media made an exception for Iraq…sort of….

  23. I have a question as someone from the US. What if Werritty is an MI6 agent? Doesn’t that mean any reference to his activities as an agent is protected by one of those Brit state secrets acts? If so, doesn’t that mean that Craig really has no access to anything he might have done? Doesn’t the FROI act exempt any of his activities from exposure?

    sorry I am an outsider but it seems that there is little Craig can do if Werritty is an official spook.

  24. “Dear Freedom of Information customer,

    considering your latest purchases, maybe you will be interested in the following offers:
    Paper refills for Filofax organisers
    Read our customer reviews:
    – Great value, loads of sheets in one go!
    – Very happy with the quick delivery, also the dates on the pages are in the future
    – The Filofax paper does everything the Freedom of Information paper does, except you have to scribble the names of the civil servants you fancy having on your agenda yourself

  25. Of course they are beautiful buildings Craig. When I was standing about five feet away from you when you were speaking at the rally against the Mavi Marmara atrocity, I looked across at where you used to work and thought that the gleaming government buildings, made from Portland stone quarried by humble Dorset men, were just like impenetrable fortresses for the establishment, an impression reinforced by the high security gated entrance to Downing Street.
    I thought the same about the Royal Courts of Justice (opened 1882 – George Edmund Street architect) when we were there for the Dr Kelly inquest case. When you enter after going through airport style security, you enter a massive and empty cathedral size space. Little winding stone staircases led to the gallery of the court allocated and not large enough to accomodate the members of the public who turned up. These buildings were all designed to intimidate the little man and to prop up the masters at the time when the British Empire was predominant in the world. Things have changed but the systems and the buildings have not.
    Don’t demolish them then. Turn them into homes. Put the gangsters in charge in warehouses on industrial estates and give the MPs portacabins instead of their second homes. :)

  26. Mary

    I’m glad that Craig has persuaded you that demolition of a fine Geroge Gilbert Scott building is not an acceptable option. Indeed, it would be completing nefarious plans for just that by Sir Geoffrey Howe, which were only resisted with considerable difficulty.
    I entirely agree with you about the gated entrance to Downing Street, on which I can vouch personally for the following anecdote.
    In the early 1980’s (after the gates had been installed) David Gentleman published a fine collection of watercolours of many sights in London. These included the gates; and with his expressive skill, the artist was able to convey his detestation of the gates. When working in the FCO on China 1984-87 I had to reccomend official gifts for senior Chinese leaders on several occasions. For Hu YaoBang’s visit to No 10 during his visit to the UK, I recommended the David Gentlemen London volume. In contrast to all my other suggestions, this was rejected and I learned that the reason was that the artist was on Mrs T’s black list, precisely because of his depiction of the gates to hinder access to Downing Street

  27. Been looking forward to this. But a couple of days ago Craig flagged something else that was going to be explosive news, but which he was going to hold back until he got the stuff from FCO.

    Not clear what in the above is the explosive news.

    All quite interesting and worth further digging, but a lot more work to do I suspect.

  28. Thanks for that anecdote Iain. David Gentleman now 82 I see is an amazing and brilliant artist with a fine body of work some of which is known to me. However I did not know that he designed the Bliar poster with the bloodspots and some of the 2003 protest posters. Included on this Google images page.
    I am also glad that you have recovered from your surgery.
    Re the FCO redaction, I am told by someone who was sent redacted material on a pdf from a government department, that, when he copied it on to Open Office, the redacted items miraculously appeared. Was that a fluke and would this work for the stuff sent to Craig?

  29. @dunwich – isn’t it explosive news that in answering the FOI request, either someone lied (about the existence of emails) or someone deleted them (a criminal offence in itself). That’s pretty substantial, in my view – and Craig has plenty of threads now to pull at.

  30. Messages get purged from the FCO system, normal. However, in many institutions/businesses, backup copies of all system databases are created daily (or 2-3 times a day) and may be archived for many years. I see big chances this is also the case in FCO, and backup copies are kept somewhere by security services. Did you explicitly mention backup databases in your request? Or, as the “data holder” might not be FCO in this case (I imagine, MI5, etc.), a separate request under FOI Act needs to be filled?

    Still, I imagine combing through hundreds of database copies which each has to be separately loaded onto a clean system can be time-consuming…

  31. Thanks for your 9.59 am link, Mary. There’s a rich range of David Gentleman’s work there, much new to me, including the poster in support of Julian Assange.

  32. boniface goncourt

    8 Feb, 2012 - 11:14 am

    Gould, Werrity, Hague, Fox….tutti frutti?

  33. Kashmiri, the back-ups don’t really matter. They found the originals, and redacted almost everything in them. The redaction probably isn’t legal anyway, but presumably they’d just redact anything important in the back-ups, too.
    I hope that someone at the FCO leaks this material.

  34. Kashmiri, your point about other Data Holders may be useful. I suppose it is worth submitting additional FOI requests, just to make the magnitude of the redactions difficult to ignore.
    This is really embarrassing for them because they need a reason for the redactions. Usually, they claim “national security”. But officially, Werritty was no one, so there should be no security implications about anything he could have discussed with the ambassador to Israel.

  35. Didn`t they do this in Nazi Germany!

  36. Meanwhile the killing goes on.
    U.S. drone attack kills 10 in Pakistan: officials
    Posted by The Editors on February 8, 2012, 9:46 am

    By Haji Mujtaba

    MIRANSHAH, Pakistan | Tue Feb 7, 2012 11:28pm EST
    (Reuters) – A U.S. drone aircraft killed 10 suspected militants in Pakistan’s North Waziristan region near the Afghanistan border on Wednesday, security officials and residents said, the fifth such strike this year.

    The unacknowledged Central Intelligence Agency drone program, a key element in U.S. counter-terrorism efforts, was apparently halted after a November NATO air attack from across the Afghan border killed 24 Pakistani soldiers enraged Pakistan.

    The United States resumed attacks with the missile-firing drones in northwest Pakistan on January 10.

    In Wednesday’s attack, a drone fired two missiles at a house suspected of being a militant hideout in the village of Thapi, 15 km (10 miles) east of Miranshah, the main town in North Waziristan.

    The building was completely destroyed and 10 suspected militants were killed, Pakistani security officials said.

    “Almost all the men were burnt beyond recognition,” a villager said after visiting the destroyed house.

    “Dozens of militants arrived later and took over rescue work. They pulled out nine bodies,” he said, requesting anonymity.

    Security officials and villagers said the dead included foreign fighters but they did not specify their nationalities.

    Several militant groups, including the Afghan Taliban and al Qaeda, have a presence in Pakistan’s northwestern ethnic Pashtun regions, taking advantage of a porous border with Afghanistan to conduct cross-border attacks, or plot violence elsewhere.

    North Waziristan is also an important base area for the Haqqani network, an Afghan militant faction allied with the Taliban which the United States says is one of its deadliest adversaries in Afghanistan.

    While the Haqqani faction says it no longer needs a sanctuary in North Waziristan and has made enough battlefield gains in Afghanistan to stay there, it is known to still operate in the Pakistani border region.

    A Pashtun tribal elder said militants usually avoided gathering, limiting groups to three or four people to minimize losses in the event of a drone attack. But they had dropped their guard recently.

    “It has been freezing cold in the last few days and then there were no drones for some time. That’s why the militants started living together and suffered heavy losses,” the elder, who declined to be identified, told Reuters.

    The use of the unmanned aircraft over Pakistan is opposed by most members of the public and Pakistani politicians, who regard the attacks as violations of sovereignty that produce unacceptable civilian casualties.

    But despite its public stance, Pakistan has quietly supported the drone program since President Barack Obama ramped up air strikes after taking office in 2009.
    (Additional reporting by Jibran Ahmad in PESHAWAR and Saud Mehsud in DERA ISMAIL KHAN; Writing by Qasim Nauman; Editing by Serena Chaudhry and Robert Birsel)


  37. Off Topic BUT another small piece of the puzzle. Iran and the Olympics.

    Facebook and Twitter have taken down Fathers4Justice with more than 11.000 followers, without reason or notice ?

    I looked around because it made no sense , they do some crazy things to be heard and you may not agree BUT to remove their freedom of speech? I then found a blog where they have a plan to call attention to themselves at the Olympics. NOW, if there is a plot to use the Olympics as a springboard to invade Iran, Fathers4Justice will have extra media interest who knows what footage may be picked up while one fed up dad is swinging from a tree as Batman and someone caught seen doing something where he or she should not be.

    The same happened with 7/7 London bombings, two American witnesses the BENSON sisters were hurried away as reporters tried to speak with them. Neither were at the inquest !


  38. willyrobinson

    8 Feb, 2012 - 12:32 pm

    Disappointing redactions, but didn’t expect it to be easy either. It’s a good point that Clark makes: now, how do they justify them?
    Also, if something isn’t actually secret, is there any penalty for leaking it?

  39. O/T Redknapp and Mandaric cleared of tax evasion. Does this mean that if we have have the spare hundred thousand or two, we can tuck it away tax free offshore?

  40. @ Mary,
    “O/T Redknapp and Mandaric cleared of tax evasion. Does this mean that if we have have the spare hundred thousand or two, we can tuck it away tax free offshore?”
    Lucky old ‘Arry.Went to Monaco,opened an account- in his dog Rosie’s name – deposited a coupla hundred grand but just couldn’t quite remember doing ths.Honest m’Lud.
    Think this case could’ve gone either way until the last few days when Capello’s now in a bit of trouble.’Arry looks a shoe-in for the Engerlund managers job i rek and it just wouldn’t do if he had a conviction for tax evasion…

  41. You were spot on Jives and know more about the world of football than I do. The betting is now on Redknapp, ‘a very wealthy man with property investments’ according to one comment. I see that Mandaric had the ex DPP Ken now Lord Macdonald as his counsel. Couldn’t lose. The financial affairs of Portsmouth FC sound ‘well dodgy’ to put it in the parlance. I see here that Fred Dinenage, the father of Caroline Dinenage the Gosport Con MP is defending Redknapp.

  42. Off topic: Recently, Iran has claimed to have taken control of and landed a US reconnaissance drone. Two or three months ago, I read a report that the drone control centre in the US had to remove some “infection” from their computers. I would expect these drones to use encrypted communications, so maybe it’s more likely that Iran took control via the US control centre, across the Internet, than that they interfered with the radio control data in Iranian airspace.

  43. @Clark, we but have to come to terms with the fact that FCO is and will be able to redact any information before sharing publicly. For example, if you took them to court, they might state that a secret service officer was scheduled to be present at each meeting – and this is already something they have a right to withhold. You will only win what they will let you win, unless somebody there makes a mistake, leaks info on purpose, or there are some systemic loopholes through which you may get access to information.

    Well, to be honest I can’t imagine a country where its foreign ministry would be obliged to publish all material ever created by its officers along with their meeting schedules and minutes of all meetings.

    Some shady deals which benefit selected lobby groups but are contrary to interest of the nation as a whole – like the Werritty case – should and must come to light and be prevented, and here the laws on transparency (FOI, etc.) are a great helper. Still, I have little hope of having a spectacular success here – unless someone from within FCO decides to blow up the current pro-Israel policy and consequently sacrifice Werritty, Goud etc.

  44. @Clark,
    Taking control of the US command centre? I honestly doubt arm control systems are ever physically connected to the internet.
    I recently read a different explanation which sounds plausible to me.
    This particular drone model uses GPS signal to control its position in relation to its flight plan (the plan itself can be loaded remotely). What has apparently happened in this case was that Iran has used fake GPS signals beaming from earth to overrun the real GPS signalling, thus making the drone believe it was nearing its landing field in Afghanistan whilst it was nearing an Iranian landing strip. The article quoted some specialists who say the relevant technology is available out there on the market.

  45. “This is really embarrassing for them because they need a reason for the redactions. Usually, they claim “national security”. But officially, Werritty was no one, so there should be no security implications about anything he could have discussed with the ambassador to Israel”
    If anyone was to have told Werritty anything that they should not have…well all this may have implications under the “The Official Secrets Act”.

  46. The taboo subject finally is broken and for the first time the subject of political prisoners is getting acknowledged. Political Prisoners in the North American Homeland
    Lynne Stewart, the U.S. court appointed attorney for Islamic Sheikh Omar Abdel-Rahman, is over 71 and fighting cancer as well as diabetes in a U.S. prison. Her appeal challenging the length of her sentence goes to court February 29th in Manhattan: the government extended her prison time from 28 months to 10 years after she bravely joked about the initial sentence on the courthouse steps. Her conviction: communicating on behalf of her blind and imprisoned client. She never should have been sentenced to jail. Known through her life’s work as an uncompromising lawyer for the disadvantaged of varying political beliefs, her case represents a clear public attempt to intimidate attorneys representing fundamental human rights.

  47. Just wondering what accountability there is, if any, for communications via mobile. Werritty first tried to make contact by text – if Gould had so happened to reply to him more quickly there would probably never have been an email from Werritty on record at all.

  48. And Werrity is still in hiding…how long is that now?

  49. I am not sure I understand what the issue is here. Sure the FCO are trying very hard not to comply with your FOI requests, but that, though, possibly not legal, who knows, is kind of predictable, given that Werrity and Gould etc were meeting with Mossad and Israel’s military top-brass to discuss policy towards Iran and its nuclear weapons. I mean, why wouldn’t these people involved want to keep these discussions secret, given their sensitivity. Or I mean, the fact that they don’t want to share them with Vronsky or Mary is sort of fair enough, I think. You may say, well all this is so undemocratic, but there is still democratic control over the FCO via Parliament, and that states keep secrets about sensitive issues can surely come as no surprise.

    The content of these discussions is a secret. Mr Murray speculates that it is about a possible Israeli attack on Iran. But it is not secret that the Israelis are nervous about Iranian nuclear weapons and, we must suppose, are discussing the potential use of military force to counter what they perceive to be a threat. I don’t know, maybe Werrity and Gould were trying to suss out that Israeli mind-set, their thinking on this issue, and if they were then probably this important task would and will be made more easier if the Israelis are reassured that details of their plans are not placed on Craig Murray’s blog.

    Can someone please explain what is so mysterious here? I ask this question irrespective of the rights and wrongs of conducting or supporting a war on Iran, which, on the face of it, does sound like a bad idea.

    Sorry to intrude on private grief.

  50. Lloyd,
    You’re missing the key point.
    Never mind not wanting to share info with Vronsky or Mary,why would the FCO want to share it with Werrity? Werrity is a civilian and has no reason to be involved in any of these discussions.All he appears to be is Fox’s bestest chum – hence Fox’s resignation.

  51. Lloyd If you really believe this ‘You may say, well all this is so undemocratic, but there is still democratic control over the FCO via Parliament..’ then sorry but there is no hope for you.

  52. Re Libya: How did John Simpson et al get in? Who facilitated entry? MoD? FCO? And then who showed them round, protected “our” journalists? There was obviously an open invite there, although you saw nothing of the NATO airstrikes.
    Now that Libya is turning to shit, the invite gets withdrawn. There’s no facilitation. It no longer dominates our nightly viewing. As Harold Pinter might have said: It isn’t happening. And there’s no way on earth guys like Simpson would dare go where they’re not invited. They might get their hair mussed.
    Is that how the mainstream media operates? Are they all embedded, 24 fuckin 7?

  53. “Werrity is a civilian and has no reason to be involved in any of these discussions” — Jives
    and had no security clearance to be involved in them, iirc.

  54. The headlines get more ridiculous:
    “Iran Training Thousands Of Female Ninjas Ahead Of Inevitable War” says MSNBC
    “18 premature babies die in Homs hospital after power cut caused by fifth day of shelling by Assad troops” says the Daily Mail, apparently quoting the Beeb
    [Echoes of ‘Saddam’s Soldiers Threw Babies From Incubators’ (according to Kuwaiti ambassador’s daughter)]
    Infowars.com has a piece on the latest FBI warnings: ‘Purchasing a cup of coffee using cash instead of a credit or debit card, using Google Maps to view photos of sporting event stadiums and large cities, and installing software to protect your internet privacy on your mobile phone — these and many other mundane activities are now considered to be potential terrorist activities’
    (Yes, I know all about Alex Jones, but he’s quoting FBI flyers and giving links.)

  55. Mary, ok, but you want to, on the one hand, demolish their HQ on King Charles Street and on the other hand you expect them to reveal their really sensitive secrets about really serious international issues with you. I don’t think you can have it both ways.

  56. I was merely querying the fact that you believe that they, the FCO, are under the control of Parliament.

  57. Anon the one and only

    8 Feb, 2012 - 8:49 pm

    Thank you Lloyd for pouring a long overdue bucket of cold water on this matter. I always find it interesting how many people rather than just reaching the conclusion in cases such as this where there is a lot of ambiguity as to motivations and explanations as what is going on, rather than just admitting that this is the case, just fill in the gaps with their own pet causes and theories. So are conspiracy theories born.

    One can also appreciate the irony of how all these enquiries are made possible by the Freedom of Information Act which we have courtesy of their beloved Jack Straw and Tony Blair. Perhaps the even greater irony is how Mary continues to challenge our democratic processes and uses very opportunity to attack our political systems and leaders – and yet is totally silent on such matters when it comes to those regimes that she supports. Where is the democratic oversight in Iran, Syria, Russia – Mary – care to comment, I thought not.

  58. Anon&…
    You are busy with Hasbara going from thread to thread repeating the same bilge over and again. Alas the numbers of political prisoners in the “democratic” West, somehow are indicating to the world at large a dysfunctional Oligarchy experiencing an identity crisis; gone berserk.
    Further what do you mean by; “Mary continues to challenge our democratic processes and uses very opportunity to attack our political systems and leaders”? Who do you think are you? Fucking Duke of Edinburgh? Remember you are one of the many who have nothing in common with you, ie you are an individual, and “our” is only you and perhaps your ziofuckwit chums.

  59. Private Eye (issue 1307) on sale today has the following:-
    ‘International development minister Alan Duncan had a secretive meeting last year with an MI6 agent-turned businessman who has links to Dr Liam Fox’s old pal Adam Werrity, according to records obtained under freedom of information rules.
    ‘The Department for International Development’s (DfID) list of ministers’ meetings says Duncan met The Gulf Consultancy to “”discuss DfID’s engagement with key partners in the Gulf region” in January 2011. But responding to an FoI request, DfID claimed it had no record of the meeting with this unknown and untraceable organisation.
    ‘When the Eye pressed DfID with another FoI inquiry, it admitted that “it has come to notice that Mr Duncan’s meeting was with ‘Gulf Consultancy Services’ rather than ‘The Gulf Consultancy’ as stated.”
    ‘Gulf Consultancy Services is a business name used by Geoffrey Tantum, MI6’s former Middle East director. Tantum also serves on the advisory board of a security company, G3 Good Governance Group, which financed Werrity’s activities. G3 paid up to £60,000 to fund his travels with former defence secretary Liam Fox as his unofficial adviser; and it also helped set up a trust supporting his missions.
    ‘Tantum’s daughter Laura also runs a a charity, the Universal Exports Charity Foundation, funded by G3 and run from its London HQ.
    ‘Duncan and the well-connected Tantum were both prominent members of “Le Cercle,” a kind of dining club for intelligence and Conservative types. The content of their meeting remains a mystery. DfID would only say it was “a general meeting, discussing political developments in the Gulf Cooperation Council region” where “no note was taken.”
    ‘”The meeting had absolutely nothing to do with Adam Werrity,” said Tantum. “I did not know Adam Werrity at the time of the meeting.”
    ‘What is clear is that commercial consultants have good, unrecorded access to ministers. Tantum told the Eye his consultancy “advises big companies on Middle East affairs.” Tantum’s other employer, G3, also advises big companies with Middle East interests, including BAE Systems.
    ‘”It has proven extremely difficult to get a clear answer about who ministers and their officials are meeting and why,” Lisa Nandy MP, who helped identify the Tantum-Duncan meeting, told the Eye. “Why is the department so reluctant to publish the details?”‘

  60. Kashmiri, yes, GPS interference sounds reasonably plausible.
    However, above is the story in question. Drone control caught a keylogger. That most likely indicates that (1) drone control systems are connected to the Internet, and (2) the system runs Microsoft Windows. Indeed, a keylogger is just the right tool to discover how the drones are controlled. It’s usually used for intercepting passwords and bank details, etc.
    It is utterly crazy and irresponsible that these killing and reconnaissance machines are controlled using the least secure operating system available.

  61. As the Fox/Werrity/Gould scandal demonstrates in its festering way, industrialised total war is only possible as a consequence of absence of open government exploited by those who profit from death. Bradley Manning, a brave ordinary soldier, by exposing the inner workings of the warfare state, has done more to counter that process than anyone in history. Who more deserving, then, of the Nobel Peace Prize 2012?
    I’ve just sent my own message to the Nobel committee. Send yours:

  62. Lloyd, you’re forgetting that Craig was a diplomat and still has many connections within the FCO.
    Craig wrote: “My sources within the civil service remain adamant that the purpose of all this activity was diplomatic preparation for an attack on Iran.”
    You’re forgetting that MPs have been fobbed off and silenced in the House of Commons when they have inquired about this matter. You can’t call that democratic. It is obviously an attempt to bypass democracy.
    You’re forgetting that the UK went to war upon Iraq based upon a web of lies, and deception of the House of Commons.
    And you seem to believe that Iran has nuclear weapons, a belief that the CIA do not share. And you forget that Israel has hundreds of nuclear warheads. If they’re not an effective deterrent, what use are they? They’re self-defeating against suicide bombers.

  63. Open Guv,
    Holy Baksheesh they are all at it;
    But rather than housing a charitable organisation with interests in development in Sri Lanka, that address is the base of a major intelligence firm, specialising in strategic consultancy.
    G3 Ltd describes itself as an “independent strategic advisory firm”.
    According to account information obtained by Sky News, G3 employs 32 analysts and is chaired by President Ronald Reagan’s former assistant secretary of state for Africa, Chester Crocker.
    It is also closely connected with a security investment fund called C5 Capital which counts Lt General Sir Graeme Lamb, the former director of UK Special Forces, among its employees.
    The C5 Capital website claims its relationship with G3 allows it “unparalleled access to in-depth sector knowledge and to an extensive network of specialist advisers”.
    G3 also funds what it describes as a “charitable organisation” – Universal Exports Charity Foundation, which is registered both as a charity and a company, and has Lord Ashdown as one of its advisers.
    Universal Exports Charity Foundation is administered and run by Laura Tantum, who is believed to be the daughter of Geoffrey Tantum, a former MI6 Middle East director.
    Despite this network of intelligence consultants and defence investment organisations working from 40 George Street, G3 have categorically denied any involvement with the Sri Lanka Development Trust or Liam Fox.
    This story ought to be headline news on every bloody tabloid; rampant corruption at epidemic levels.

  64. ate my comment again

  65. Anon 1&O, having argued with you before, I’d expected better from you than the above praise for Lloyd’s ill thought-out comment. And I’ve never known Mary to “support” the regimes you mention, nor for her to oppose democracy in any way. Mary is highly critical of the UK, US, and Israeli regimes. That is her specialism. Specialising is the way expertise is created. There are plenty of other specialists to cover the matters you mention.

  66. Thanks Fedup. I see our friend has been at it on the Know Your Limits:Syria thread and that you dealt with him successfully. He speaks there – ‘Please try and get it into your head that human rights are meant to be universal (and that is what International Law says)’ – but does not mention US extra judicial killings and killings by drone (10 yesterday on the Pakistan border) nor of Libya nor of Gaza nor of Mossad assassinations nor of all the other places where the USUKISNATO axis has
    visited its evil.

  67. Lloyd, I’m sorry to say this, but the more I read your comments the more naive you seem. Look at your 7:20 comment. This is about the relationship between the FCO and the electorate. The personal opinions of any one individual voter (in this case Mary) matter hardly at all in that relationship. Can you really imagine a government spokesperson announcing on television “We should tell you, the electorate, about our policy within the FCO, but Mary at Craig Murray’s blog wants to knock our building down, so we won’t, so Ya Boo Sucks to you all”?

  68. I appreciate your comments Clark but please don’t waste your time with these latest diversions.
    Ref this strange charity that Tantum’s daughter set up in July 2010, no accounts have been provided and the only information given are the names of the four trustees. Lord Ashdown but weirdly named as Mr Jeremy John Durham Ashdown, Mr Robyn Scott, Lady Deborah Peat wife of the previous secretary to Prince Charles and a Mr Andrew Wright. One of their areas of operation is Ghana so watch out Craig. The whole thing is so crazy you think there must be something behind it.

    Many names were given in this Telegraph piece on G3 and Tantum including our old friend the Duke of Westminster.


  69. Mary, I’m all for intelligent debate, and for the debate to broaden, as Anon 1&O and Lloyd apparently wish, we need sensible comments we can engage with, not spurious criticism, whether it be of you or anyone else. I hope that Lloyd etc. raise their game, because that may further the debate on these vital issues.

  70. Clark,
    “that may further the debate on these vital issues.”
    You are an eternal optimist. These specimens are not here to debate, they are here to teach the goyim and reinforce the bilge that is passed as “commons sense” at these times, whence idiots/lunatics are in charge of the asylum.
    Out of curiosity have you ever known of a single instance of a zionist ever gravitating towards sense and logic, through dialogue and debate?

  71. Mary
    Good investigation there, this paragraph tell it all; “In a lucrative industry reliant on insider information and expertise, Mr Pienaar has made it his business to be well-connected. A number of Establishment figures are on the company’s payroll”

  72. Anon the one and only

    8 Feb, 2012 - 11:07 pm


    Could you point me to where Mary has ever criticised the regimes I mentioned? I can point to cases where she has defended them, if you wish. Clark you may wish Lloyd etc to raise their game – does the etc. include the likes of Fedup who is prepared to make far stronger allegations and much less supported allegations about others views than I ever would, but clearly hasn’t the intelligence to realise that he is wasting his time and putting up his own blood pressure.

    MAry says that I’m not prepared to condemn abuses of human rights by the US, Israel or Libya (since Ghadaffi) – that is just not true. I am more than happy to do so where these have occurred. As I said human rights are meant to be universal and I try to avoid moral relativism.

    On a more serious level – I do think that there is a genuine point that one sided defences of human rights, which are meant to be universal, are not particularly effective in changing attitudes and opinions. Amnesty makes a point of ensuring that those who get involved in the letter writing campaigns, write to support those who are being victimised in a wide range of political regimes.

  73. @Clark, thanks for the link, interesting reading.
    As a matter of fact, I find the following explanation in mind:
    In spite of all, I still believe US drones are not connected to the public internet. Sure, their video streams use standard satellite broadcasting technology. However, drone control is an entirely different piece of cake. Even in the mentioned article, the Iranian scientist does not claim they broke into drone control system – only that they simply used engineered GPS signalling.

  74. Anon&…
    Why do You want supportive evidence? Is your intention not other than serving the cause by adding the source to your infernal database of hasbra and acue for GIYUS operatives to swamp the site with the usual crap?
    Your kinds’ tactics are so threadbare and so obvious, I reiterate how dare you to think you can fool all the goyim, all the time.

  75. Fedup, that depends what you mean by “Zionist”. About two weeks back I followed a link from this blog to a video of a self-proclaimed Zionist who argued that Israel’s aggression, expansionist policy, and hostility towards Iran were highly detrimental to Israel’s own interests. I’d also cite Noam Chomsky. Though I don’t know whether he self-identifies as a Zionist, he always responds to Israeli criticism by pointing out that he wishes to change Israel’s policies for Israel’s future peace and security, as much as everyone else’s.
    Fedup, people’s motivation for posting nonsense is none of my business, but if people post nonsense here I shall knock it down, such that it is seen to be knocked down. This is why I don’t resort to abuse and name-calling; it attacks the wrong target. It attacks the person but not their argument.

  76. Kashmiri,
    Do you expect CSM to carry the blue prints for the drones too? The technology involved is classified top secret, yet Iranian have broken into it, and to expect that the US will sit back and take it on the chin is a bit naive won’t you agree? (shades of German enigma machine)
    Would the damage limitation exercise include all manner of simplification and downplaying of the whole affair?

  77. Clark,
    “Israel’s aggression, expansionist policy, and hostility towards Iran were highly detrimental to Israel’s own interests”
    Those zionists who oppose any aggression towards Iran, are fully aware that any attack on Iran will result in the end of the zionist state.
    The fishwife diplomacy of the Western operatives and their counter parts in Isreal, which determines Iran as a weak and ineffective state, that can be subject to military attacks and fail to retaliate in a fashion that would endanger the belligerents attacking her, is a fantasy. Furthermore, the fantasy of Iron Dome keeping Isreal safe is just that; a fantasy. Therefore the anticipated reactions that you refer to.
    Hence, my question still remains unanswered.

  78. Open Guv – well posted! good news of Private Eye’s very nearby FOI investigation. It is good to see Craig not completely isolated. Yet they did not mention Craigs requests.

    Drones hacked – not possible to know, just waffle about…

    Bradley Manning’s nomination for Nobel – brilliant!


  79. Anon 1&O, a good coincidence; our posts crossed, and I saw your comment above after my reply to Fedup (who I hope will heed my reply). I find Mary’s contributions particularly valuable, because she puts in the time to go digging in the publicly available information to discover the links between powerful people and groups that would otherwise remain out of sight.
    I think you need to distinguish between support for a regime, and defending against propaganda. For instance, Mary commented upon the strangely rising “death toll” in Homs, and its even stranger sudden fall immediately after the UN Security Council vote. She concluded her comment with “of course, there should be no deaths at all” or something similar.
    The problem is that propaganda overlaps with reality, it’s impossible to hit the target without some “collateral damage”, generally to one’s own credibility.
    As you know I oppose intervention in other countries. The corollary to that is that people must exert pressure within their own countries. This Mary does, and I respect this. You accuse her of supporting, say, Assad, but she has never criticised peaceful protest against him.
    The situation in Syria looks sickeningly similar to the start of the trouble in Libya. It is not a coincidence that some people’s “Propaganda Radar” is on maximum sensitivity at present, and therefore maybe picking up some false positives.

  80. Clark,
    “Once a political decision has been reached to proceed with internal disturbances in Syria, CIA is prepared, and Secret Intelligence Service (MI6) will attempt to mount minor sabotage and coup de main (sic) incidents within Syria, working through contacts with individuals,” said a US-UK leaked intelligence document.

    In her new article, political analyst Felicity Arbuthnot disclosed the document, which said “incidents should not be concentrated in Damascus” and that a “necessary degree of fear,” “frontier incidents” and “border clashes” would “provide a pretext for intervention… the CIA and SIS [MI6 should use… capabilities in both psychological and action fields to augment tension.”
    In an op-ed article written for The New York Times, Efraim Halevy, who headed Mossad from 1998 to 2002, claimed that Iran’s foothold in Syria has enabled Tehran to pursue its “reckless” regional policies, and to stop those policies, Iran’s presence in Syria must be ended.

    “The public debate in America and Israel these days is focused obsessively on whether to attack Iran…to halt its nuclear…ambitions [and] hardly any attention is being paid to how events in Syria could result in a strategic debacle for the Iranian government,”
    Meanwhile back at the ranch US has seen a judicial offensive on Lebanese Hezoallah and its “association” with “drug cartels” hence the need for forfeitures etc.
    However Russia is warning against any unilateral intervention in Syria.
    BTW what do you mean by “taking heed” Clark?

  81. Kashmiri, thanks for the link.
    Crab, I know that my comments about drone takeover are mere speculation, but I thought the idea should be circulated nonetheless, and I hadn’t seen my suggestion anywhere else.
    Fedup, beware lest your definition of “Zionist” end up circular i.e. based upon itself. Why shouldn’t an Israeli wish to save Israel from the results of its own policies? I wish to save the UK from UK policy. That doesn’t make me a UK Imperialist.

  82. Fedup, re: your 12:02 am comment, I saw that quote yesterday. It refers to a coup in 1952 or thereabouts, doesn’t it?
    I hope you heed my suggestion to direct attacks at arguments and not people. I regard your 11:14 pm comment as counter-productive. Anon 1&O’s motivations are not the issue, and presumably you cannot know them.

  83. Clark,
    “Why shouldn’t an Israeli wish to save Israel from the results of its own policies? I wish to save the UK from UK policy. That doesn’t make me a UK Imperialist.”
    UK is as imperialist as my next door neighbour, a flatulent old fart drunk on cheap cider and ever full of piss and wind. Let us face it UK is well past the imperial days and these days we are more akin to satraps/charge hands of the US empire. (FFS the old Castro is taking the piss out of us, and having few a laughs at our expense these days)
    A zionist by definition cannot deviate from the letter of the Isreali policies. The apparently feral commenter springing here and there, is in on way engaged in any debate. These are engaged in didactic attempts to reinforce and keep relevant the tsunami of disinformation available on demand masquerading as the controlled media. Hence let us not to kid ourselves.

  84. A former Assistant Secretary to the US Treasury on the background to the most pressing priority currently exercising Matthew Gould, Her Majesty’s ambassador to Israel, Fox-Werrity co-conspirator & self-declared Zionist:

  85. Sarkozy and Cameron’s attack and intervention in Libya was so successful in achieving a peaceful conclusion that apparently it is now necessary to have contingency plans to evacuate the Brits.
    From today’s PMQs
    Andrew Stephenson (Pendle) (Con): The Prime Minister will have seen this morning’s Defence Committee report on Libya. What steps is he taking to ensure that the UK will be fully able to evacuate all UK nationals from conflict zones, and reduce our reliance on civil charter aircraft?
    The Prime Minister: My hon. Friend raises an important point. I think that the Libya evacuation, and other potential evacuations in a dangerous and unstable world, have brought home to us the importance of having transport aircraft in the Ministry of Defence and the RAF. I can announce today that because the MOD’s finances are now better run and better managed, and because we have found savings, we will be able to purchase an additional C-17 for the RAF. This aircraft is becoming an absolutely brilliant workhorse for the RAF, bringing men and material into a war zone such as Afghanistan, and evacuating civilians in times of need. It is an important investment for the country, and I am glad to announce that we can make it today.
    and later in answer to a question about Syria from Menzies Campbell, we know Cameron’s real aims, if we did not know before –
    Sir Menzies Campbell (North East Fife) (LD): What confidence can we have that unilateral intervention by Russia will put an end to the terrible violence in Syria?
    The Prime Minister: I think we can have very little confidence in that. Frankly, Russia and China set themselves against Arab opinion and world opinion when they set themselves against passing what would have been a strong and good UN resolution. My right hon. Friend the Foreign Secretary was absolutely right to push for that resolution.
    What we now need—Britain will play a big part in this—**is real engagement with the opposition groups both inside and outside Syria,** bringing together the strongest possible international alliance through a contact group, so that **we can co-ordinate our efforts with respect to getting rid of that dreadful regime**. We should make sure, through the EU and other bodies, that we continue the sanctions and pressure.
    The bloodshed in Syria is absolutely appalling. The Russians have to look at their consciences and realise what they have done, but the rest of the world will keep fighting as hard as we can to give the Syrian people a chance to choose their own future.

    PS Many £thousands drop into Campbell’s lap including £5,000 from the Saudis for his visit there in 2009. What a hypocrite.

  86. Clark, (our posts crossing)
    Have we not been witnessing the Sykes Picot redux the latter day version?
    You may have the patience of arguing the toss with the zionists, but from my bitter experience these zionists have no intentions of any exchange of ideas. In fact they are akin to South African apartheid defenders, and in no way ready for any kind of compromise or fruitful debate. Therefore You can debate with these if you wish; let them have your email address, but frankly I have no fucking time for any of the wankers.

  87. Further background to Mr Gould’s most pressing priority:

  88. Mary,
    How fortuitous can the question prove to be?
    UK to buy its 8th Boeing C-17 military plane
    The disabled no longer can claim disability allowance, the mentally ill will be roaming the streets and winding up sleeping in the door steps, heck we will have our bit of military hardware all the while helping the Boeing corporation at the same time.

  89. Fedup, you wrote: “The apparently feral commenter springing here and there, is in on way engaged in any debate. These are engaged in didactic attempts to reinforce and keep relevant the tsunami of disinformation available on demand masquerading as the controlled media.”
    That is your opinion, one that others may not share. Remember that opinions vary widely. Consider an unseen (i.e. non-commenting) reader of this thread who hold opinions between yours and Anon 1&O’s. The argument pulls them back and forth, when suddenly they encounter an outburst of unfounded assertions by one about the motivations of the other. The outburst is likely to sway that undecided reader to the opposite side, i.e. unfounded assertions about motivation are likely to be counter-productive.
    When you see disinformation, counter it with links and evidence. Calling it “disinformation” carries no evidence of its own, and is likely to lose you readers.

  90. Clark,
    I wish I had your patience and optimism. Do you honestly think those uncommunicative readers do not know about the venal apartheid theocracy in Isreal bent on preserving itself whilst the big bully US is still relevant?
    Assertions you say, I have asked you a simple question;
    Out of curiosity have you ever known of a single instance of a zionist ever gravitating towards sense and logic, through dialogue and debate?
    This question, so far remains unanswered.

  91. Fedup, good arguments win supporters; thousands of people see these threads. It matters not if you cannot sway an individual in argument because their mind is already made up. If your argument is stronger than theirs, you will sway others who are reading. Insults and accusations fail to do that. Rather, they make it look like you’ve lost the argument. It is more effective to remain silent than to start calling people names.

  92. Clark, (crossed posts)
    PS let the ziofuckwits do their own research, I will in no way contribute to their efforts in; thwarting, swamping, complaining, attacking, and coercing the sites/owners/advertisers/etc.
    PPS holding onto queens-bury rules whilst engaging a bunch of dirty fighters may be appealing to you, but is not in any way my cup of tea.
    PPPS to consider the cock and bull stories of the zionists as valid and without any needs for citations/corroborations/proof, whilst demanding sources for all that I say is a bit of one-sided affair won’t you agree?

  93. Fedup, I don’t classify people as Zionists or otherwise, but I have known people change their minds about things, yes. But it never happens in those slanging matches that break out, like the one after the executions by Israeli forces who boarded the Mavi Marmarma.
    It surprises me that people don’t work this out. You are as convinced as I am that our mainstream media is full of propaganda, but you debate as if everyone can already see through that propaganda, or else is part of “The Enemy”. If propaganda didn’t work, perception management wouldn’t be the multi-billion dollar industry that it is. You have to believe that there are many people who believe untrue things because the relentless Media Machine has convinced them of it. Calling you opponent “a zionist” does nothing to correct their impressions. Always, be civil, state the argument, and link the evidence.
    I’m neither particularly patient nor optimistic. Just realistic. I just hope humanity get through all this without a nuclear holocaust.

  94. Fedup, as I see it, Lloyd above did me and my arguments a big favour (see my comment at 9:33). He deployed such weak arguments that he gave me a chance to make about four important points. He said that Craig was speculating, so I pointed out that Craig has FCO contacts who report the subject matter of the argument within the FCO. So that evidence is on this thread now, as well as an older one. He claimed the UK government was acting democratically; that was easy to refute with an example. He stated that Iran had nuclear weapons, giving me a chance to quote a CIA opinion to the contrary. And he gave me the chance to mention the lies on which the Iraq devastation was predicated. Do you see how this works? Who cares whether I swayed Lloyd? He enabled me to do anti-propaganda!
    Of course, I could have just called him a “ziofuckwit” and had done with it. Nah. Nothing to do with “Queensbury Rules”.

  95. 1 Feb: AP: Nobel peace prize jury under investigation
    Nobel Peace Prize officials were facing a formal inquiry over accusations they have drifted away from the prize’s original selection criteria by choosing such winners as President Barack Obama, as the nomination deadline for the 2012 awards closed Wednesday.
    The investigation comes after persistent complaints by a Norwegian peace researcher that the original purpose of the prize was to diminish the role of military power in international relations…
    Fredrik Heffermehl, a prominent researcher and critic of the selection process, told The Associated Press on Wednesday that “Nobel called it a prize for the champions of peace.”
    “And it’s indisputable that he had in mind the peace movement, i.e. the active development of international law and institutions, a new global order where nations safely can drop national armaments,” he said…
    “Do you see Obama as a promoter of abolishing the military as a tool of international affairs?” Heffermehl asked rhetorically…

  96. Clark,
    Considering the precious hours of my life spent on trying to debate with the zionists and getting these to open their eyes/heart/ears/mind to reason/logic/cries of their victims, and observing the negative results and almost mockingly taken advantage of, I have no intentions of repeating the experience.
    Those seeking answers will not engage in a series of nonsensical interjections defending their position, therefore if it quacks, if it waddles, and if it is feathered, we can safely assume it belongs to the duck family of the birds. Right?
    I bid you good night and sweet dreams for the time being.

  97. @ Oddie,
    Thanks for that link Oddie,appreciated.I’m glad there is to be more scrutiny of the Nobel Peace Prize.I had thought in the last few years it had become a platform owned by the Establishment.It’s important its original remit is re-appraised.

  98. Fedup, just make best use of whatever litter people leave behind. We’re Wombles! I’m off to bed too. Goodnight all.

  99. boniface goncourt

    9 Feb, 2012 - 4:17 am

    It’s all about putting goy money in zionist pockets, with maximum suffering
    to the goyim. Remember that a zionist can only enjoy good fortune if it comes from the suffering of others. Adolf Hitler’s ‘Polish Problem’ of 1939 was Hitler himself, and today’s ‘Iranian crisis’ is not Iran, but Baruch Oybama and
    his analingual British government sluts.

    Depleted Royal Navy to be boosted with catapult-firing Roman triremes for Iran war. Jobseekers to earn their benefits as galley slaves. Sorted!

  100. DownWithThisSortOfThing

    9 Feb, 2012 - 5:10 am

    “Following the surfacing of the photos, the Israeli Embassy in Washington had asked all American newspapers to consider ceasing to publish the photographs of Hazem Bader, claiming both the caption and the photo of the injured worker were untrue and perhaps staged.”
    Palestinian builder gets knocked down by a truck and then gets run over the legs while the IDF enforce the illegal law which bans Palestinians from building or carrying out structural alterations to existing buildings on their own occupied land while Israel’s Jews (but not Israel’s Moslems) can build anywhere they like in occupied Palestine.

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