The mainstream media for the most part has moved on. But there are a few more gleanings to be had, of perhaps the most interesting comes from the Daily Mirror, which labels al-Hilli an extremist on the grounds that he was against the war in Iraq, disapproved of the behaviour of Israel and had doubts over 9/11 – which makes a great deal of the population “extremist”. But the Mirror has the only mainstream mention I can find of the possibility that Mossad carried out the killings. Given Mr al-Hilli’s profession, the fact he is a Shia, the fact he had visited Iran, and the fact that Israel heas been assassinating scientists connected to Iran’s nuclear programme, this has to be a possibility. There are of course other possibilities, but to ignore that one is ludicrous.
Which leads me to the argument of Daily Mail crime reporter, Stephen Wright, that the French police should concentrate on the idea that this was a killing by a random Alpine madman or racist bigot. Perfectly possible, of course, and the anti-Muslim killings in Marseille might be as much a precedent as Mossad killings of scientists. But why the lone madman idea should be the preferred investigation, Mr Wright does not explain. What I did find interesting from a man who has visited many crime scenes are his repeated insinuations that the French authorities are not really trying very hard to find who the killers were, for example:
the crime scene would have been sealed off for a minimum of seven to ten days, to allow detailed forensic searches for DNA, fibres, tyre marks and shoe prints to take place.
Nearby bushes and vegetation would have been searched for any discarded food and cigarette butts left by the killer, not to mention the murder weapon.
But from what I saw at the end of last week, no such searches had taken place and potentially vital evidence could have been missed. House to house inquiries in the local area had yet to be completed and police had not made specific public appeals for information about the crime. No reward had been put up for information about the shootings.
Behind the scenes, what other short cuts have been taken? Have police seized data identifying all mobile phones being used in the vicinity of the murders that day?
The idea that the French authorities – who are quite as capable as any other of solving cases – are not really trying very hard is an interesting one.
Which leads me to this part of a remarkable article from the Daily Telegraph, which if true points us back towards a hit squad and discounts the ides that there was only one gun:
Claims that only one gun was used to kill everybody is likely to be disproved by full ballistics test results which are out in October.
While the 25 spent bullet cartridges found at the scene are all of the same kind, they could in fact have come from a number of weapons of the same make.
This throws up the possibility of a well-equipped, highly-trained gang circling the car and then opening fire.
Both children were left alive by the killers, who had clinically pumped bullets into everybody else, including five into Mr Mollier.
Zainab was found staggering around outside the car by Brett Martin, a British former RAF serviceman who cycled by moments after the attack, but he saw nobody except the schoolgirl.
Her sister, Zeena, was found unscathed and hiding in the car eight hours later.
Both sisters are now back in Britain, and are believed to have been reunited at a secret location near London.
There are of course a number of hit squad options, both governmental and private, which might well involve iraqi or Iranian interests – on both of which the mainstream media have been very happy to speculate while almost unanimously ignoring Israel.
But what interests me is why the Daily Telegraph choose, in the face of all the evidence, to minimise the horrific nature of the attack by stating that “Both children were left alive by the killers”? Zainab was not left alive by design, she was shot in the chest and her skull was stove in, which presumably was a pretty serious attempt to kill a seven year-old child. The other girl might very well have succeeded in hiding from the killers under her mother’s skirts, as she hid from the first rescuers, and then for eight hours from the police.
The Telegraph article claims to be informed by sources close to the investigation. So they believe it was a group of people, and feel motivated to absolve those people from child-killing. Now what could the Daily Telegraph be thinking?
For Bluebird
http://pastebin.com/0VW3dtL5
For Pink
He’s willing to show the French police his facebook converstaions !
Well he’s already published them (“candlesticks” and all that. Or was it ornaments !)
I thought he was in Jordan not Iraq ? And going to Canada ? Or had been in Canada. I’ll have to re read it.
So yet another hard hitting, to the core, fact finding, truth searching journalist files a report on nothing.
P.S. that’s 1 again again as the answer ! Three times in a row !
No, James, the Telegraph piece is huge progress, MONUMENTAL!
The MSM have actually sent a team to Iraq and spoken to family members, there’s a lot of new information there and above all, Bluebird’s family research has been fully vindicated.
This is mainstream now. Isn’t that what we’ve all been calling out for?
@bluebird 23 Dec, 2012 – 1:32 pm
Petraeus / Kagan is a whole new scandal unrelated to Petraeus / Kahwam. Involves Kagan & her husband, rightist pro-war civillians who were deeply involved in guiding the course of the war in Afgahnistan, right beside Petraeus and given highest security clearance.
On the other matter (the one I agreed not to mention again – like our Mr. X from Chicago & London):
visit http://www.Visionbox.org and http://www.CrisisActors.org
Is it not unusual that these are both .org mostly used by volunteer and non-profit groups. One would think somebody could make good cash money from such a “central casting” service. Or is a substantial donation expected?
I quite agree with you Pink
22 Dec, 2012 – 8:49 pm. The french is smoke, mirrors and confusion. I hope the message is getting out around the world that if you want to assassinate someone without ever being caught or punished, France is just the place to do it! The trouble is we have everything from them: a different theory for every day of the week whilst obdurately blind to the most obvious; putting out clear lies such as Zainab was dead when they must have known she wasn’t; major blunders such as not checking the victims inside the car for vital signs whilst not finding a child for eight hours and not being able to stop the killers escaping or even identifying or locating their vehicles; changing their stated facts such as the number of bullets, the nature of the injuries, the weapon(s) used, who made the first call, the description and ownership of the 4×4; passing the buck as with their comment about the cause being in England and a suggestion that the British authorities weren’t being helpful; evasion when refusing to answer press questions and appearing annoyed they would have the audacity to ask them; witholding useful information such as the dubious 3.15pm photograph on the grounds of it being “morbid” (who has ever heard of such a thing?) or indeed of Mollier despite the help this might have afforded in tracing their respective movements; discrimination in making public Al Hilli’s financial affairs whilst witholding Mollier’s on the grounds that the latter’s family “deserved some privacy”; obstinately refusing to concede that Mollier could have been a target despite strong evidence to the contrary; intentionally misinterpreting the tyre, blood and glass evidence in the lay-by; and generally giving the impression the crime could not be solved or culprits caught. These are just a few examples of Maillaud’s total incompetence and is a indictment not just of him but of the whole French system of justice apparently a view shared by not a few French nationals themselves that the stories of both police and judiciary corruption published here only go to confirm. I am hopeful the the French people will themselves demand better.
* the French investigation (sorry)
NR
Oh. I see. Another Holy Land “Frederick” with a similar name. There are too many Fredericks close to Patraeus.
Kagan seem to have a lot of high ranked family members.
http://www.nytimes.com/2010/05/11/us/politics/11court.html?pagewanted=all&_r=0
James
Thanks for the link. Nice summary. So we have a car that is owned by the LATIN KINGS mafia clan that was said to be Adam Lanza’s car. Why is there no word in media?
What puzzles me, though, is the motive of the LATIN KINGS for killing children. They are killers, drug dealers and arms dealers but i dont think that they are killing children. So then where is the reason?
Somebody paid them for child abduction? Why was Lanza driving a mafia car?
Sorry Pink
22 Dec, 2012 – 8:49 pm, I don’t quite get this bit of your useful post.I’ve worked out the ONF now but who is MB? Do you mean Brett Martin or someone else?
You say: “Look at this about ONF if MB was there so was ONF so they were all in the vicinity,if he was arrested then they would have a description but no one knows anything it seems .
“Investigators are still looking for a motorcycle seen that day. The driver was not far from where the killing when he was arrested by agents of the ONF (National Forest). The latter asked him to leave the area because the forest is home to the Combe d’Ire partly a nature reserve, where traffic is prohibited.
English or a cyclist would have crossed this same bike lowest moments later, before discovering the bodies of victims. The driver is he the murderer? Only certainty biker went near the vehicle of Al-Hilli in the slot of the drama. Despite calls for testimony , it still has not appeared”
I agree sadly we can trust very little of what comes out of the the French investigation, including the stuff about the motor cyclist and 4×4. The trouble is SOME of it might be true but it is almost impossible distinguishing between the true and false. The official statements about these two vehicles stretches credibility to breaking point however. My view is there WAS a 4×4 and a motor bike on scene and probably directly implicated in the murders, but that for some reason the prosecutors and those involved have set out to confuse or camouflage the true facts.
Let us take the motorbike first. You will notice the motor cyclist was “arrested”. Even if this is a factor of translation and he was only stopped, have you ever known such a procedure not resulting in registration details being taken and the name and address of the rider? In which case there must be a good reason not explained why this vehicle and person were not traced. And if as reported he had large panniers, would not forestry officials on the look out for poachers wish to look inside them? Why so long before putting out the story and even then with no accompanying description? It is a story to confuse rather than to find the person involved.
Then there is this incredible story that I have flagged up before, that the green 4×4 was actually a forestry vehicle that weeks later was traced and ruled out. It is simply not believable that state officials with a quasi-policing role could have passed the murder scene at exactly the time of the murders, yet not IMMEDIATELY reporting to the Gendarmerie, not only to absolve themselves but to provide vital information on people and vehicles. If this was the vehicle that WBM reported seeing, the forestry officials must have witnessed all the participants including the killers. How can Maillaud expect us to believe such a fantastic story that it took many weeks to identify this vehicle and rule it out, and if so its occupants provided not a scrap of useful information. Apart from anything else, such Forestry employees would be guilty of gross misconduct for not immediately coming forward.
There is something PROFOUNDLY wrong with Maillaud’s output is there not?
The article you quote at http://www.francetvinfo.fr/ou-en-est-l-enquete-sur-la-tuerie-de-chevaline_160149.html Pink, published on the 25th October includes additionally this:
“Le premier objectif des gendarmes était de reconstituer le scénario des assassinats. Dans la voiture des victimes britanniques, les enquêteurs ont retrouvé un appareil photo. Sur les clichés pris dans le hameau d’Arnand, près de Chevaline, on voit les membres de la famille Al-Hilli poser tour à tour, là devant une maison fleurie, plus loin le long d’un torrent. La famille semble détendue. Sur l’un des clichés, Saad Al-Hilli sourit, sa fille juchée sur ses épaules. Difficile d’imaginer qu’une demi-heure plus tard, à 4 km de là, leur vie va basculer sous le feu nourri d’un tireur déterminé.”
Curiously it suggests that the Al Hilli’s would be shot “half an hour” after the notorious photo had been taken, yet we were told by the police that the photo was timed at 3.15pm and everyone was dead by 3.30pm. That’s not half an hour by anybody’s reckoning is it?
Phyllis Buyington and Cassandra Scire
http://m.facebook.com/cassandra.scire.18?id=1684808868&_rdr
This is the facebook page of Cassandra Scire. She is the niece of Rodia and was arrested with him in their lafest theft. There are rumours that she was Adam Lanza’s girlfriend.
She has 2 friends. One of them is Phyllis Buyington.Christppher Rodia is also on the friends list of Buyington.
Since the days of the Shooting, Buyington is posting like crazy on her facebook page for the children. She isnt even from Sandy Hook and she does not have any relations there, does she? She posts about 10 more times than she had done after the death of her husband in may.
This is weird.
Something to get you teeth into James
22 Dec, 2012 – 10:24 pm. (Sorry couldn’t resist that one!)
Phyllis Buyington was a Nanny for kids in Norwalk (CT) and in Florida and Mimi Dumont, tge second person on Cassandra Scires facebook page was a Daycare Nanny for little kids. Too many Nannies here as friends of criminal Cassandra Scires. 100% Nannies exactly. Wasnt mrs lanza also in care of kindergarten kids?
Phyllis is going nuts on her facebook page recently. What’s up there? Scires is the niece of criminal mafia member Rodina (and she lived in his house) whose car had been used by Adam Lanza. Or was Lanza used by Rodina?
Are the media too stupid to find this or are they brainwashed with a D notice once again?
https://twitter.com/colinfreeman99
This is the Byington family. Sorry that i misspelled Byington above.
http://m.legacy.com/obituaries/thehour/obituary.aspx?n=william-i-byington&pid=157948731&referrer=0&preview=True
So we have a nanny going living 35 miles from Sandy Hook going crazy on her facebook site.
This links to Cassandra Scire, the niece of Christopher Rodia.
Lots of children’s Nannies, the Latin Kings and too many Italians in that plot.
Once again police is telling us fairy tales and media accept that willingly and without any criticism.
Why would a 19 yrs old criminal have only 2 facebook friends and those friends are Nannies?
@Tim
Sorry I meant the Motorbike (MB)I see they used Motorcycle in the article,I didn’t think as I always say motorbike.
I won’t swear to it but I think the Motorcycle with panniers was a different one seen by a farmer when it stopped to allow the cows to pass .
The motorcycles are another web of intrigue there was one ridden by a young lad who heard the shots but legged it when he heard sirens as he was riding illegally .
Then one stopped by ONF and one seen by a farmer .
I think young lad has been ruled out but its still not clear if the bike seen by farmer is the same as one stopped by ONF or another one.
…….
Then there is wigs in cars
http://www.francetvinfo.fr/tuerie-en-haute-savoie-des-questions-toujours-en-suspens_137731.html
“A witness told some journalists on Friday have crossed a white car “a little bit crazy” on a road near the site of the quadruple murder shortly after his estimated time. He then presented to the police to give them his testimony. “At first I thought it was two girls inside, but once they passed me, they looked weird, weird with hair, as if they wore wigs. ”
But the prosecutor did not seem convinced by this version. He also referred to the testimony of a cyclist, collected at a hearing, which saw a “4×4 green or dark” , while recalling the multiplication of the evidence. “We are in Savoy, in the mountains, in a period where there are tourist 4×4 everywhere. ”
Time of photos
http://www.francetvinfo.fr/tuerie-de-chevaline-la-famille-al-hilli-ne-se-sentait-pas-menacee_155161.html
“It is “a real family photo. Both women were smiling and did not seem worried. This suggests that everyone was relaxed at this time” , described Eric Maillaud. These photos were taken before including the hamlet of chalets Arnand, a few kilometers from the killing. The latest photos were taken at 15:15 September 5, 2012, a little over half an hour before the warning given by relief at 15:48 amateur cyclist who discovered the four bodies. They have been shown in recent days the inhabitants of the hamlet “to see if they remembered something” , said the prosecutor.”
Thanx Strawberry..Just saw that and what I gather from it is The police have not interviewed Balsam, implication that Saad hired muscle, after he was beat up.. to remove whoever lived at the choice “Chelsea on the Tigris” property..that he was worried about his hacked accounts..(we can presume responsible..the alleged person in UK custody Abiodun whose case has mysteriously dropped off the radar or given Saads proficiency and .someone much higher up if he was under monitoring) something new I saw and perhaps missed in earlier papers..was the inclusion of Saads support for Iran and militias this would again paint him as a bad man killed by another bad man.
Then the line of hundreds of murders that the Iraqi police will never catch up up… We do know that his business had dried up after visit to Iran..obviously he was under extra scrutiny up to the day he died.
@ bluebird 23 Dec, 2012 – 5:58 pm
The NYT link you give is for Elena Kagan of the Supreme Court US.
The one I mentioned is yet another Kagan: “Did general David Petraeus grant friends access …”
http://www.independent.co.uk/…op-secret-files-8426225.html
Ah Ha! So Frederick or Fred or Freddy are the cover names for the US agencies, just as Martin is used by British agencies. 🙂
http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/WMG/JamesBondJr
“… all those different looking Bonds are completely separate people, with the code name “James Bond” being passed down when one of them dies or retires… “
Pink
23 Dec, 2012 – 4:25 pm with ref. to your telegraph article I think this is the first time Hashim has been specifically referred to and his treatment at the hands of Saadam, though still no detail or his undoubted link with the CIA and probably British Intelligence as well. Then there is the inclusion of what I assume is a mistake, stating that Kadim left Iran in 181 istead of 1971 presumably not intentionally misleading. Unless we have been wrong all along? If it was 1981 Saad would have been ten years older at 18. Then there is the fascinating story about his trip to reclaim the family house in 2003 when he got beaten up by the occupants. Remember this was over 30 years of being absent from it! It was apparently immediately after the invasion of that year and after he had obtained British citizenship. It must have been very foreign and dangerous. But then note despite the injuries sustained, he very remarkably manages to get it back (evicting the occupants?). When asked how he replied “I used some connections”. Oh yes that says a lot don’t you agree? He’d not been to Iraq since he was eight. Saadam Husain hated his family. The only organisation with any clout in 2003 was whom??? Why of course the American forces. Why would the Americans help out a Iraqi ex-pat of 30 years? I will let you work that one out. That’s the hardest evidence yet of direct America contact/backing. The rest of his cousins interpretation chimes with that many of us have held for some time.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/middleeast/iraq/9762604/Alps-murder-Truth-about-Saad-al-Hillisfamily-feud.html
“When Kadhim left Baghdad in 1981, the property was stolen by another family, so after Saddam’s fall in 2003, Saad came back to reclaim it,” recalled Hussain, who said it was the first time his cousin had returned to Iraq.
“But Saad was a quite a confrontational guy, and he liked to fight for his rights. Later he told me that he had got the house back. When I asked him how, he just said: ‘I used some connections.'”
He added that the wider Hilli family were also distrusted by Saddam because they had held senior positions in Iraq’s monarchical regime, which the Iraqi despot’s Ba’ath party had opposed. Balsam’s own father, Hashim, who served as as diplomat, was brutally tortured in jail in 1969, turning him into “a completely different person, terrified of everyone and everything,” according to his daughter.
“We used to discuss politics in our online conversations, and I was surprised by how radical he was – he was very supportive of Palestine, Hizbollah and Iran,” said Hussain. “If he tried to give his technology to one of those Middle Eastern powers, he would incur the anger of their rivals. I have no proof of this, but if he was stuck between them, there could be some consequences.”
Hussain points the finger at Israel, saying Mossad would not hesitate to wipe out anyone offering to help Tehran, just as they have done with scientists involved in Iran’s nuclear programme. Others, though, think that if Saad had been hawking secrets around, it is just as likely that he fell foul of those he was trying to sell them to, either because the deal went sour for some reason, or to silence him afterwards.
During some of the conversations, Saad also expressed frustration about having lost various computer passwords and having his Skype account password “stolen”. Again, what seemed like petty gripes at the time just might, with hindsight, have significance.
@ pink wow wigs..I had not seen that! I have heard of robberies in banks with Ronald Reagan masks..and even Willie Nelson with a guitar…but those were banks. Someone going the extra mile here for accidental in the woods robbery. Interesting to say the least!
@bluebird 23 Dec, 2012 – 7:47 pm
“This is the Byington family. Sorry that i misspelled Byington above.”
http://m.legacy.com/obituaries/thehour/obituary.aspx?n=william-i-byington&pid=157948731&referrer=0&preview=True
“So we have a nanny going living 35 miles from Sandy Hook going crazy on her facebook site. This links to Cassandra Scire, the niece of Christopher Rodia. Lots of children’s Nannies…”
Don’t forget this nanny / murder story in NY recently:
http://www.dailykos.com/story/2012/11/27/1165153/-Media-Convicts-Killer-Nanny-of-Murder-of-CNBC-VP-s-Children-43-Trillion-Lawsuit-Story-Nixed
The last para:
“American jurisprudence has long relied on the firm presumption of innocence before a finding of guilt by a jury. Courts have found that media coverage which greatly taints the mindset of the public from which jurors will be drawn must be considered, in legal jargon, “poisoning the well,” or “poisoning the jury pool.””
I am just guessing here, but from how things work in Hollywood, I would not be surprised to find that for some of the elites one of the duties of a nanny is also as family drug runner.
Was it not in the US that rightist radio star Rush Limbaugh was using his maid to fetch his oxy?
@Manny 23 Dec, 2012 – 8:24 pm
“@ pink wow wigs..I had not seen that! I have heard of robberies in banks with Ronald Reagan masks..and even Willie Nelson with a guitar…but those were banks. Someone going the extra mile here for accidental in the woods robbery. Interesting to say the least!”
The distinctive kill-wig, lipstick, easily identifiable hoodies – where have I heard that before?
Can anyone help and tell me what kind of car this is? I am not very good with autos.
http://i215.photobucket.com/albums/cc191/sys_config/ScreenHunter_02Nov240323-2.gif
I could alter the time and date on my camera now and take a photo when the latest photos were taken at 15:15 September 5, 2012
I still think this covers up the fact they arrived at least an hour earlier
NR
Fred ! Martin !
Logical really. Like ICAO codes.
They use them to “recognise each other.
Wonder if the French ones are called “Philippe” ?
“Is that you Philippe ? It’s Fread and Martin here”
“No, I’m Pierre. I don’t know Ph …….”
Pop, pop, pop !
On another important matter; since this mystery might well continue for 100 years, should we not adopt a trendy and cool name for ourselves as the Ripperologists have done?
Maybe call ourselves Chevalinistas – the renowned and much feared Horse Butchers, the bane of mass murderers.
http://scifake.com/ripperologists/
If you like true-life horror stories, this is one of the best. A doctor who had a special rooming house built in Chicago in time for the World’s Fair in the late 1800s. It was built with air tight rooms, secret passages, chutes, dissecting tables and a crematorium in the basement. He lured young working girls there and gassed some in their sleep, by piping gas into their room.
It has been proposed several times that he was Jack the Ripper, but there’s no proof he was in England at the time.
Herman Webster Mudgett aka Dr. Henry Howard Holmes aka H. H. Holmes was convicted of killing 27 people and was hung until dead in the Moyamensing Prison on May 7, 1896. The Castle itself was burnt down in August 19, 1985 and where the Castle once stood is now a Post Office that will be closing down soon at 63rd & Wallace in Englewood, Illinois.
Good true-crime account, in the book “The Devil in the White City”
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Devil_in_the_White_City
Does CT stand for Connecticut or for conspiracy theory? 🙂
NR
Lanza, Rodia,Scires,Monroe, Pelletier, Byington are all related. RELATIVES!
Thanks to facebook and friendslists and obituaries.
http://m.facebook.com/ty.s.skarupa?fref=fr_tab&__user=100000455881356
http://m.facebook.com/people/Mark-Monroe-Sr/100000800680301?id=100000800680301&_rdr
The key is Barbara Coppola-Lanza.
The Rodia /Scires Latin Kings Clan was related to Lanza.
That is something!
When i look the facebook page and those photos of the Rodia guys and the Scires and others listed all i think of is pedophilia. That is pretty weird.
@ James I like it too.Like the Man from UNCLe…I wonder what the ones for Germany Russia are..
where is MA in all this?
I forgot the little white car with dent is parked in front of BMs house, so was curious.
Pink
22 Dec, 2012 – 8:49 pm
good job, pink, continue in this way !
Pink
23 Dec, 2012 – 8:00 pm yup i’m with you on the three motorcylists. I think the farmer saw his the day before if i remember correctly. anyway EM’s story just isn’t believable.
As to photo at 3.15 I’m not sure u got my point that in that France TV article it states they were shot dead “half an hour later”. If the time of photo (3.15) is right and the time of shooting was 3.30 no way was it “half an hour (“demi-heure”) later”. Even almost 2 months later (25.10.12) they still can’t get their timings right. Of course it could be just sloppy reporting – using the time of first call (3.48) as the time they were referring to. Who knows?
Investigators probably know the culprits, but the cover for political reasons.
this is confusing too Pink (8.30)
““A witness told some journalists on Friday have crossed a white car “a little bit crazy” on a road near the site of the quadruple murder shortly after his estimated time. He then presented to the police to give them his testimony. “At first I thought it was two girls inside, but once they passed me, they looked weird, weird with hair, as if they wore wigs. ”
The woman who saw the white Peugeot speeding away and nearly hitting her on the corner, said there was only one male driver dressed in black who for some reason she thought “looked English”. Somewhere else the little 306 is confused with a “four wheel drive Peugeot”. There is no way the police could be this confused or confusing except on purpose.