Obama Drones On

by craig on November 7, 2012 11:08 am in Uncategorized

Four more years of drone killings, Guantanamo, crazy FBI agent provocateur plots, whistleblower prosecutions and surveillance of citizens were going to come whoever won. Goldman Sachs funded both candidates royally. I probably prefer the slightly tempered or disguised neo-con to the red meat neo-con, but let nobody pretend it makes a vast difference.

A respected retired African President told me last week that George Bush did more for Africa than Obama. Amazingly, I believe that to be true; whatever his motives, a number of Bush initiatives pumped real money into useful African infrastructure. Obama’s relations with Africa have almost entirely revolved around location of military bases.

Perspective changes as you move around the globe.

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  1. It was an election between Tweedle Dee or Tweedle Dum.

  2. It’s dispiriting seeing so many of my friends greeting this as some kind of victory.

    You could also have mentioned the US being so pleased about cranking up the amount of weapons they sold the world last year, no doubt plenty of those ended up in Africa.

    Little piece in Foreign Policy on ‘persistent conflict’ being the US posture for the foreseeable future.


  3. Craig, I take your point that on all the issues you cite, Obama is not really any better than Bush was or than Romney would be (and in some cases worse than Bush, although probably not Romney). But although it’s not relevant for non-Americans, there was a huge difference in terms of economic policy in this election, with Obama being clearly and vastly superior, even if he would be considered center-right or even just right-wing by UK standards. And Big Finance was massively behind Romney and fighting pretty hard to defeat Obama (although of course some firms give to both sides to a certain extent).

  4. “…Bush did more for America than Obama…”

    Africa, presumably.

  5. “George Bush did more for America than Obama”

    I think you mean Africa.

    If there is a substantive difference between Obama and Romney on foreign policy perhaps it is that Obama stands up to Israel a little more firmly than Romney would have done.

  6. Tony Blair was just on CNN International live for his reaction. Nothing unusual about that really. More curiously the interview took place in Jerusalem. Blair was wearing the obligatory poppy.

  7. While I agree Obama has a lot to be ashamed of – though I doubt he will be more penitent than any other politician with blood on his hands – I think the main issue here was about finally putting to sleep the stupid fantasy that America could expect to go back to the 1950s on any level. The ‘message’ from Romney’s mob was very much harking back to an America that if it ever did exist is long gone never to return. America has to deal with the 21st century reality and while Obama has his failings at least he’s smart enough and realistic enough to understand that reality.

    I’m thankful Obama won. It might not get any better but it could have got a whole lot worse very fast.

    I’m curious to see just how much more freedom the President will exercise in his second term.

  8. Yes, Obama and Romney – the election essentially came down to Last Puppet Standing. That said, Obama’s approach on Iran may be slightly less gungho moronic than Romney’s but there’s no guarantee with that. And if Romney had won, the evangelists would have pushed and pushed anti-abortion and Romney would probably have just nodded it through. So, yeah, relief that Romney wont be POTUS but I have no illusions about Obama.

  9. To avoid confusion, Anon at 11:54am is me. I’m not Anon at 11:48 or any other Anon in this thread so I’m Anon (blue) again for this thread (it sort of stuck from an earlier post with multiple anons).

  10. Maybe you’d better call yourself Onymous, Anon(blue)…

  11. So Obombney defeated Robama. Same difference…

  12. This was from the time before Obama first got elected.

    “Have we had the same two families in charge for too long?”…


    That took guts to say that, we need more like him.

  13. Komodo,

    Only reason I don’t pick a “proper” handle is that it would encourage me to post here more often rather than just read.

    PS: Clark come back!

  14. Goldman Sachs funded both candidates royally.

    To name but one. Naming others may be problematical, as this piece explains:

    (sorry it’s the Eructator- but it came from the FT, which has a paywall)

  15. The Melcom store in Accra has collapsed. Sadly many are trapped underneath the rubble.

  16. Turkey has asked NATO ie the USUKIsNATO axis, to place Patriot missiles on its border with Syria. And all this time we thought that Obomber was electioneering.

    Or perhaps La Clinton has been doing the business. There is talk of her standing in 2016. She is supposed to be giving up the Obomber job in January.

  17. “Working Links & Other Welfare to Work Companies and the Labour Party.”


  18. And we have such an open democracy here in the UK.

    7 November 2012 Last updated at 12:22

    Five marines charged with murder to remain anonymous

    The identity of five Royal Marines charged with murder after an incident in Afghanistan will not be disclosed, a judge has decided.

    The men will remain anonymous until their court martial has finished, Judge Advocate General Jeff Blackett ruled.

    The decision will be reviewed when court proceedings have concluded.

    All five have been charged with the murder of an unknown Afghan national contrary to Section 42 of the Armed Forces Act 2006.



  19. Mary,

    I was thinking same re: any child abuse prosecution. We’ll not know who’s been charged. A veil will be drawn to ‘protect the children’. Secret courts are anathema to both justice and democracy.

  20. Good post. Anyone know how to copy and paste a link on an android phone?

  21. 4 more years = much more drones. Whoever won, it was going to herald in the 4th term of George Bush.

  22. “…but let nobody pretend it makes a vast difference.”

    Well, for example, if you’re gay, lesbian, trans, a women, it makes a massive difference. But the sentiment in your remark largely is coming from exactly that group of people who are none of those, and seem to think these issues are not so important in the global scheme of things.

    Not to say I otherwise expect much different than what’s in your first sentence, but it doesn’t help to be dismissive of more than half the population.

  23. Cameron to escalate his MidEast shitstirring-


    Quite a lot of fundamentalist Islamist jihadis you’re courting there, Dave. I’m sure they’ll show their gratitude somehow.

  24. Supernaut

    Life would likely be marginally worse for women and minorities who live in the United States under the Republicans (though I doubt that Romney would in fact have followed that mad agenda with gusto). I have a problem with American women who think their life being a bit better outwieghs women being blown limb from limb in Afghanistan, Iraq, Sirte or wherever. But there you are.

  25. Yup, as the old saying goes, it doesn’t matter who you vote for, the military-industrial complex always gets in.

  26. Anon (blue)

    7 Nov, 2012 - 1:00 pm


    On android browsers Press and hold the link then select copy URL from the menu which should pop up. To paste press and hold wherever you want to paste it then select paste.

  27. @Craig

    Agreed. Just like the identity politics of gay Americans that sees them saluting homosexuals being able to openly serve in the most barbarous killing machine on the planet, the US military.

  28. Anon (blue)

    7 Nov, 2012 - 1:03 pm

    Or you can also share the link (from menu) to email, twitter etc I forgot to add

  29. And referring to the above as somehow constituting ‘progress’.

  30. Quoting from Veterans Today.
    « Press TV the Iranian satellite channel has been banned in Europe supposedly by an order from the European Union when however Maja Kocijancic, spokeswoman for the EU foreign policy chief, Catherine Ashton, told Press TV.
    “I have to tell you that this is a decision of Eutelsat and Arqiva and you have to ask them, it is their decision,”
    “The EU … has adopted new restrictive measures against Iran, but they focus on finance, energy, trade and transport, not telecommunication. And do not contain elements which could have forced Eutelsat to take such a step,” Kocijancic added.

    Gordon Duff of Veterans Today Explains.”In a flagrant violation of freedom of speech, Eutelsat SA ordered media services company, Arqiva, on October 15 to stop the broadcast of several Iranian satellite channels, including Press TV.
    Eutelsat is a person, not a company. Eutelsat says it is European, but it is actually Israeli. French sounding ‘Michel de Rosen’ runs Eutelsat, an Israeli citizen, a company with Israeli stockholders, a company long dictated to by extremist groups within Israel, the militant ultra-nationalists of the Likudist regime of Netanyahu,”

    He goes on to say. “When Eutelsat chose to choke off Iran and end free speech in Europe, many spoke up but none pointed a finger at Israel and their desire to paint Iran with a ‘black brush’,
    Duff said slamming European countries for their silence over the ban on the broadcast of Iranian satellite channels in Europe. “One organization after another, all controlled opposition, part of Israel’s ‘game theory warfare’, rose in self-righteous anger and, as usual, pointed in the wrong direction,” he added.
    Duff described the company as one of the Israeli-owned “chokepoints” which are created to “make sure all communication, all progress, all privacy is subject to what is allowed.”
    “In a flagrant violation of freedom of speech, Eutelsat SA ordered media services company, Arqiva, on October 15 to stop
    the broadcast of several Iranian satellite channels, including Press TV.”

    “It is absolutely unacceptable for us that a company can interrupt a nation’s media in this way. Eutelsat’s decision disregards the importance of the liberty of expression and the free circulation of information,” National Union of Journalists chief, Dominique Pradalie, told Press TV.

  31. Tory MP questions civilian drone deaths in Commons

    Tuesday 06 November 2012

    by Roger Bagley in Parliament



    Conservative MP Rehman Chishti faced combined attack from a Lib Dem ally and a Tory minister when he challenged the use of deadly unmanned drones today.

    Mr Chishti launched a Westminster debate to protest against civilian deaths from drone attacks in Pakistan and Afghanistan.

    The Gillingham Tory MP quoted estimates that up to 885 civilians had been killed by US drones in Pakistan.


    Look at the shocking and complacent response.

    Mr Chishti will not be advancing up the parliamentary ladder.

  32. Anon (blue)

    7 Nov, 2012 - 1:11 pm

    Florida just jumped up to 99.3% Obama win on Intrade (was 95% 1/2 hour ago). Looks like the people with money are certain that’s going Democrat when all is said and done.

  33. Eh, Romney or Obama, the only difference is which corporations will start getting government orders. Romney has already announced big purchases from the arms industry. Obama I guess gets less support from there.

    As to the drones, etc., the resident of the White House has very little to say. It’s none of his responsibility: he has military advisers to decide on such technicalities. However, I’ve heard it was Obama’s personal efforts that brought about swapping B-52s for Predators in Afghanistan.

    As to foreign policy… well, it was (supposed to be) run by Ms Clinton… What did you expect.

  34. Anon (blue)

    7 Nov, 2012 - 1:15 pm


    I notice PressTV is still carried by the UK based “LiveStation” Internet tv service (Windows/Mac/Linux/Android/iPhone etc). I wonder if they are getting pressure to remove the channel?

  35. Bush’s aid to Africa in the key area of health was tied to deeply conservative principles of abstinence, and avoiding the promotion of contraception. I suspect taking a positive view of his role there would require similarly conservative principles. http://www.trust.org/alertnet/blogs/africa-views/a-condom-condemnation-george-bushs-hiv-and-aids-legacy-in-africa/

  36. ‘as the old saying goes, it doesn’t matter who you vote for, the military-industrial complex always gets in.’

    True- and this fact is a misfortune felt more painfully in Yemen & the NW Frontier than here, KOWN.

    The only siver lining I can identify in O’Bombers 2nd term is that it has almost certainly discomfited Netanyahu- the two men clearly niggle each other terribly, but for the sake of the real ‘special relationship’, both men must continue to grin & bear it.

  37. Is it possible that the Democrats have deliberately moved to the right so that the Republicans have got no where to go but into the crazy-zone? Capturing and holding the centre-right of politics means they can marginalise the GOP until it becomes effectively unelectable and in perpetual opposition.

  38. John Goss NB

    David Cameron vowed to work with newly-reelected Barack Obama to find ways to end the bloodshed in Syria after hearing “horrendous” stories of suffering from refugees at a camp in Jordan.


  39. “Tom Lehrer – We Will All Go Together When We Go”


  40. My friend Donald is cross. LOL So there is little schadenfreude.

    Furious Trump calls for a ‘revolution’ after ‘disgusting injustice, sham and travesty’ of Obama’s re-election
    The Donald took to Twitter Tuesday night after it became apparent Obama would win election
    Called for a ‘revolution’ and added that Obama’s re-election was a ‘disgusting injustice’
    Later deleted several of his more extreme tweets
    Conservative billionaire is famously outspoken over president and was high-profile member of so-called ‘birther’ movement


  41. “Nick Harvey (Minister of State (Armed Forces), Defence; North Devon, Liberal Democrat)”

    “In the last three years to 19 June 2012, 176 strikes have been carried out by UK Reaper unmanned air vehicles (UAV) in Afghanistan. Reaper is the only UK UAV which carries weapons. I cannot comment on UAVs or strikes by other nations. Reaper is acquired, supported and armed through the US government. The prime contractor to the US government for the construction of Reaper is General Atomics—Aeronautical Systems Inc., based in California. The UK takes every reasonable measure to avoid civilian casualties. I am aware of only one incident where individuals not classified as insurgents were killed by a UK Reaper UAV. The incident took place on 25 March 2011 and resulted in the death of four civilians in addition to two insurgents. An International Security Assistance Force (ISAF) investigation was carried out and concluded that the actions of the Reaper crew had been in accordance with extant procedures and ISAF rules of engagement.”


  42. “The future of the USA – 2012-2016 (Part 3) – The breakdown of the US socio-political fabric”


  43. I’m glad that I’m a friend of America, because that enabled me to enjoy Obama’s victory. The thought of a Mormon becoming the most powerful person on earth – shiver me timbers!

  44. Nick Harvey, sadly had to go. His opposition to supporting an Israeli first strike on Iran had been noted….


    And Rachel Stevens is wearing a black jumpsuit. Never heard of her, but it must be important or the Mail wouldn’t put it on the site.

  45. Uzbek in the UK

    7 Nov, 2012 - 3:40 pm

    Mr Murray,
    Not to defend Obama but do you seriously think that Romney would have ended drones? I doubt it very much. US is in near future unlikely to commit more ground forces and for whoever is in Oval Office drones are ‘good’ substitute. Republicans and Democrats all depend on those who support aggressive policies and rush to cash in on terrorism threat.
    US drones will continue until there is an institution (international perhaps) that will have power and influence to put stop on it. Or until US public takes this matter seriously and demands from the government to stop drones. Until then I am afraid it does not really matter who is in the Oval Office.

  46. Uzbek in the UK

    7 Nov, 2012 - 3:48 pm

  47. The Yanks obviously love all that sleb stuff on the RH side of the webpage.

    The Daily Mail has overtaken the New York Times to become the world’s most visited newspaper website, according to online tracking service Comscore. The biggest increase in readers has been in the US – so how did this very British institution do it?

    There is something compellingly simple about MailOnline. No fancy site navigation, picture carousels or slideshows – just a front page with stories and pictures. Thousands of them.


  48. Sorry, Uzbek. Drones are here to stay. Market forces ™, you see. The US hasn’t even signed the 1997 Ottawa Landmine Ban Treaty. The types it has given up were delegitimised (under Bush) in 2004 and action began on these last year….


    Drones are actually much more use than landmines, and the manufacturers are lobbying like crazy for US contracts.

  49. After 4 years Obama kept one promise ,and that was to his children. He got them a dog !
    Wonder what he manages in his second term ?
    50% voter turn out. Wonder how many voted just to keep Romney out ?

  50. Amazed at the number of people (tho’ not here) expressing relief at Obama’s re-election as if it made any difference.

    Simon Schama on R5 this morning made the point that from a foreign policy perspective there is no real difference between Rombama and Obney.

  51. Jemand,

    I have just suspended it until I can get more evidence as to its truth or otherwise, as Mary seemed to find evidence that he is twittering away quite unconcernedly

  52. I never knew that you were a wren, Dreoilin, my favourite little bird. I always pronounced it to myself as Dree Oil In. I see I was wrong.


  53. Imagine if the Drones just targetted the poor and isolated with gifts. Ipods containing audiobooks and uplifting tunes, wooly socks, lego, mince pies. The country would be dazzled and treated into hopefulness.

    No, we direct industry to smash people into the soil.

  54. Do you know the multi story building that has collapsed in Accra Craig. Terrible. Are building standards observed or would there be some natural cause?

  55. Mark Golding @ 1.58 p.m. I noticed that too on the news this morning and told a friend that we (the UK) were going to get involved in another Zionist war this time in Syria. And Iran will not be far behind. Very disturbing.

    This in my opinion is an attempt to divert attention from Ted Heath’s buggering (and possibly murder, because some never returned) of little boys on his yacht. The boys were supplied from the children’s home in Jersey, apparently by Savile, according to David Icke, whose fantastic blog is no longer looking like the fantasy it was once thought to be. According to his blog the boys’ throats were slit as part of the sexual gratification. And all the other child abuse from powerful and protected people.

    Hopefully the more rational countries with muscle, Russia and China, will prevent these desperate acts from a desperate government. Like Thatcher, Cameron, Thatcher’s colleague in seedy African arms’ deals, thinks a good war will get him another term. He is currently on an arms’ sales tour of the middle east. Doesn’t it make you sick?

  56. Tom Watson accuses May of “a cover-up” over child abuse claims

    The media may be transfixed by the spectre of a paedophile cabinet minster abusing children, but what actually matters is that thousands and thousands of children, whose lives have been ground into nothing, who prefer to kill themselves than carry on, who have nowhere to turn, to whom nobody listens, whom nobody helps. Does she sincerely want to start making amends or can she live with being what she’s just announced – the next stage of a cover-up.

  57. doug scorgie

    7 Nov, 2012 - 4:56 pm

    Mark Golding – Children of Conflict
    7 Nov, 2012 – 1:58 pm

    “David Cameron vowed to work with newly-reelected Barack Obama to find ways to end the bloodshed in Syria after hearing “horrendous” stories of suffering from refugees at a camp in Jordan.”

    However he did not visit the ten Palestinian refugee camps in Jordon to hear their “horrendous” stories of suffering.

    The West is, and has been for a long time, governed by war criminals.

    Ending the bloodshed in Syria, as most posters on this blog know, is a simple matter of stopping the US; UK; Israel; Saudi Arabia and Turkey supplying weapons and training to the Syrian rebels and an insistence that the rebels agree to talks, through mediators, with the Assad regime with genuine democratic changes on the table.

    This is not Messers Obama; Cameron; Netanyahu; Abdullah bin Abdul Aziz and Erdogan’s take on how to end the bloodshed. Their view is that the end (regime change) justifies the means – no matter how many innocent men, women and children die. Regime change at all costs!
    We must find a way to end all state sponsored terrorism which has taken over from diplomacy and conciliation in dealing with international conflicts: a vertical uphill challenge.

  58. Abe Rene

    “I’m glad that I’m a friend of America, because that enabled me to enjoy Obama’s victory.”

    I wonder what exactly this enjoyment entails? Do you have even the faintest idea, as a human being, the meaning of the word joy? Or beyond the word, the actual feeling?

    Sorry to awake you. Please carry on…

  59. Did you know that there are no….
    now ten enquiries taking place into child abuse? All designed to fog us so that nobody will have the slightest idea what is going on. Nobody will be brought to justice.



    The on-air presenters at the BBC are to have their contracts redrawn so that they cannot evade tax. That will upset the likes of Paxman and Bruce but the catch is that the new contracts will only come into place when their present ones expire. I expect they have all been given good notice of this to allow the exisiting contracts to be extended.

  60. Did you know that there are no

    …business like show business?

  61. Inquiries are the politicians smoke grenade. The more they lob the more they have to hide.

  62. John Goss and Doug Scorbie As you said.

    Cameron is a complete and utter shit.

    Cameron: I’ll work with Obama to ensure Syria is top priority
    PM hears ‘appalling stories’ of suffering during visit to Za’atri refugee camp in Jordan, home to 23,000 Syrians


    Many of those Palestinian refugees in Jordanian camps are now second and third generation from Al Naqba in 1948.

  63. Cameron’s stooge, the windbag full of hot air known as Clegg, had a hard time at PMQs today when he deputised for his master.

    Heckled fromn both sides.

  64. Guest- many thanks for the link @3.07PM

    The points about deteriorating educational standards and infrastructure in the US are well made. The recent ‘Superstorm’ has certainly highlighted shortcomings in the latter.

  65. Ben Franklin (head honcho CIA Office for Craig Murray Operations)

    7 Nov, 2012 - 5:51 pm

    “Life would likely be marginally worse for women and minorities who live in the United States under the Republicans (though I doubt that Romney would in fact have followed that mad agenda with gusto)”

    You miss the point on Romney, Craig. The Republicans want a figurehead POTUS to ditto the Congressional Agenda.(see the NO-VETO Bush) Therefore, Romney would be irrelevant. The momentum for the right has been shifting down. Like a twenty-ton flywheel, it takes a lot of foot/lbs of energy to reverse the Juggernaut. The Framers designed the bicameral structure for slow change. That’s why you have the boiling kettle of the House of Representatives, and the cooling saucer of the Senate. You might not like it, but there it is….

  66. @ John Goss,

    “Mark Golding @ 1.58 p.m. I noticed that too on the news this morning and told a friend that we (the UK) were going to get involved in another Zionist war this time in Syria. And Iran will not be far behind.
    Very disturbing.”

    I don’t think that the trajectory of US foreign policy is going to deviate from the predetermined plan ( unless the US economy collapses):-


    Now – when someone at the top echelon of the military provides this kind of evidence – then one would not be logical to think that the same path that Clark has stated is the US plan, then we simply have to accept that the warmongering led by the US will continue.

  67. Correction:-

    “…not be logical to think that the same path that Clark has stated is ( not) the US plan…”

  68. Carelessly tried to watch the BBC News today. The prog lasts for 30 minutes. After 20 minutes, they’re still waffling about the US election. Cut to a BBC reporter in China, who is asked what the Chinese TV are saying about the US election. He practically rolls his eyes and sarcastically states that the Chinese seem to think what’s happening in their own country is as important as what’s going on in the US. Huh. Shall we get a Chinese person for the next DG of the BBC?

  69. Good book by Tariq Ali on President Obama – ‘The Obama Syndrome: Surrender at Home, War Abroad’ – strongly recommended.


  70. “The government outsources the process of stopping private sector tax abuse to…the private sector”


  71. Agree on the smoke bombs, Mary, what we now need is ‘deliverance’ of said persons to the schafott, or apply for crowd funding of a few Cz 750M1, forget the waste of taxpayers money…

  72. First Wednesday: Trouble at the BBC – Savile, management and public trust

    November 7, 2012 7:00 PM

    The last time the BBC set up an internal inquiry of the scale of the Pollard Inquiry it resulted in a shake up that saw the resignation of the Director General and the Chairman. Nearly ten years on from the Hutton Inquiry pressure is again mounting at the BBC and there are calls for those at the top to “fall on their swords”.

    Join us as we ask whether the criticism levelled at the BBC and its management is fair and how damaging it could be. Does the failure to adequately justify and explain the reasons for dropping the Newsnight investigation into Jimmy Savile’s past point to a larger problem with decision-making at the BBC?

    Chaired by Steve Hewlett, a writer, broadcaster and media consultant.


    Sian Kevill, runs independent production company, Make World Media. Previously she was editor of the BBC’s Newsnight programme where she won two BAFTA and two RTS awards, she also worked on BBC World News where she had overall editorial responsibility.

    Stewart Purvis, professor of television journalism at City University London. He is a former Editor-in-Chief and CEO of ITN, and Ofcom’s partner for content and standards.

    David Elstein, chairman of the board of openDemocracy Ltd and of the Broadcasting Policy Group. Previously he launched Channel 5, worked for Sky as head of programming and began his career at the BBC as a producer and director.

    Jean Seaton, Professor of media history at the University of Westminster.

  73. That is at the Frontline Club. They usually film these events and put up a video online later

  74. Reality check on ObamaCare. My sister-in-law in Utah has discovered that if she and her husband wish to retire (both early 60s) they will need a joint income of $40,000 a year just to pay for health insurance.

  75. resident dissident

    7 Nov, 2012 - 7:40 pm

    @John Goss

    “Hopefully the more rational countries with muscle, Russia and China,”

    I feel your pain at seeing all these “free and fair” elections in countries where it is permitted to express different viewpoints without fear for your life. Weren’t you the joker who was linking to Russia Today so as to receive undistorted eulogies on your comrades in North Korea?

    Some of us actually prefer our irrational democracies to your rationality.

  76. Assange says victorious Obama ‘wolf in sheep’s clothing’

    I asked for my 16-yr old’s opinion. His response: Every politician is a wolf in sheep’s clothing! Profound! Aren’t there any statesmen left?


  77. “Syria is an enduring project. This is a leaked joint US-UK intelligence file:

    “In order to facilitate the action of liberative [sic] forces… a special effort should be made to eliminate certain key individuals [and] to proceed with internal disturbances in Syria. CIA is prepared, and SIS (MI6) will attempt to mount minor sabotage and coup de main [sic] incidents within Syria, working through contacts with individuals… a necessary degree of fear… frontier and [staged] border clashes [will] provide a pretext for intervention… the CIA and SIS should use… capabilities in both psychological and action fields to augment tension.”

    That was written in 1957,”


  78. And in 1982, this from Oded Yinon. Find/search for the word SYRIA. Syria comes in 18 times.

    A Strategy for Israel in the Nineteen Eighties
    by Oded Yinon

    This essay originally appeared in Hebrew in KIVUNIM (Directions), A Journal for Judaism and Zionism; Issue No, 14–Winter, 5742, February 1982, Editor: Yoram Beck. Editorial Committee: Eli Eyal, Yoram Beck, Amnon Hadari, Yohanan Manor, Elieser Schweid. Published by the Department of Publicity/The World Zionist Organization, Jerusalem.

    At the outset of the nineteen eighties the State of Israel is in need of a new perspective as to its place, its aims and national targets, at home and abroad. This need has become even more vital due to a number of central processes which the country, the region and the world are undergoing. We are living today in the early stages of a new epoch in human history which is not at all similar to its predecessor, and its characteristics are totally different from what we have hitherto known. That is why we need an understanding of the central processes which typify this historical epoch on the one hand, and on the other hand we need a world outlook and an operational strategy in accordance with the new conditions. The existence, prosperity and steadfastness of the Jewish state will depend upon its ability to adopt a new framework for its domestic and foreign affairs.



  79. Yes, I’m the wren, Mary. Very common in Irish and Celtic folklore. :)

  80. Resident Dissident

    I don’t normally entertain trolls but in the interests of freedom of expression I refer you to British-born subjects Talha Ahsan and Babar Ahmad who are accused of having connections with a website in 1998 (if my memory serves). Each have been in English jails for more than 6 years and 8 years respectively without charge before being extradited to solitary confinement in the good old US of A, another free country with a Gulag in Cuba which has contained some 800 prisoner. Only one of these has been tried and convicted of anything. Thank God for your democracy. Jokers come in all colours. Ask to borrow one of your friend’s mirror.

  81. Well said John. Your namesake writes of the US Gulag and one US citizen Dr Rafil Dhafir.

    The Political Trial of a Caring Man and the End of Justice in America
    By John Pilger

    November 07, 2012 “Information Clearing House” –

    That was 1997, more than five years before George W. Bush and Tony Blair invaded Iraq for reasons they knew were fabricated. The bloodshed they caused, according to recent studies, is greater than that of the Rwanda genocide.

    On 26 February 2003, one month before the invasion, Dr. Rafil Dhafir, a prominent cancer specialist in Syracuse, New York, was arrested by federal agents and interrogated about the charity he had founded, Help the Needy. Dr. Dhafir was one of many Americans, Muslims and non-Muslims, who for 13 years had raised money for food and medicines for sick and starving Iraqis who were the victims of sanctions. He had asked US officials if this humanitarian aid was legal and was assured it was — until the early morning he was hauled out of his car by federal agents as he left for his surgery. His front door was smashed down and his wife had guns pointed at her head. Today, he is serving 22 years in prison.

  82. This goes with my post above at “7 Nov, 2012 – 3:07 pm”

    “The position taken by the Obama administration in last week’s oral arguments is further confirmation that the US political establishment is moving rapidly toward authoritarian forms of rule.”


  83. This is the wife of the then Governor of New York.

    ‘The then Governor of New York, George Pataki, called this “money laundering to help terrorist organisations … conduct horrible acts”. He described Dr. Dhafir and the supporters of Help the Needy as “terrorists living here in New York among us … who are supporting and aiding and abetting those who would destroy our way of life and kill our friends and neighbours”. For jurors, the message was powerfully manipulative. This was America in the hysterical wake of 9/11.’

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Libby_Pataki Note her allegiance to Israel.

  84. “anon: Tony Blair was just on CNN International live for his reaction. Nothing unusual about that really. More curiously the interview took place in Jerusalem. Blair was wearing the obligatory poppy. ”

    Well Blair did declare his home as being in the Zionist occupied city of Jerusalem.


    The only honest thing he’s ever said

  85. This goes with my post above at “7 Nov, 2012 – 3:07 pm” and at “7 Nov, 2012 – 9:22 pm”

    ““The day we see truth and do not speak is the day we begin to die.”

    – Martin Luther King”


  86. Blair was supposed to have the use of a whole floor of that hotel which is very expensive. I believe he has moved to a rented house in Jerusalem now.

    The daughter Katherine, about whom there was much speculation at the time when her father invaded Iraq, has been called to the Bar. Brother Nicky not doing so well. Euan – what is he doing? And young Leo. I actually feel very sorry for these children having such parents.


  87. Dispiriting. One of my best friends was on Facebook, urging the US to vote Obama. Shared links with pictures of Obama’s back – ‘I’ve got his back’ as the tagline. Basically, Macdonalds is food for people who don’t pay attention to the contents, and Obama is the President for people who don’t pay attention to politics.

    I’ve no idea who Mr President Iconography really is, but he’s not who his supporters want him to be. He never will be, never was.

  88. Did anyone notice or are my eyes blind?

    Hold on a moment, where is secretary Hillary Clinton? We know she is not running for a second term, yet why is she not congratulating President-Elect Obama after the call or after his acceptance speech.

    Must we conclude a rift twix friends and never the twain shall meet on foreign policy?

    I think so – LEAVE SYRIA and IRAN alone!

  89. @Mark Golding

    Good observation. According to reports, she is stepping down as SoS to retreat to private life – total bullshit, of course. Hillary’s ambitions are very much tied up with ol’ Bill’s, and he wants another two terms as president – thru her.

    I think that the Clinton’s need to get out of public view for a while and work behind the scenes to secure Democrat nomination for the next election. Four years will be needed to get the money together and the time will help erase some history so she can reinvent herself as a fresh candidate. (*vomit*)


  90. alan campbell

    8 Nov, 2012 - 4:01 am

    Obama is certainly not in the same class as Alex Salmond.

  91. I feel your pain at seeing all these “free and fair” elections in countries where it is permitted to express different viewpoints without fear for your life. Weren’t you the joker who was linking to Russia Today so as to receive undistorted eulogies on your comrades in North Korea?

    Some of us actually prefer our irrational democracies to your rationality.

    That’s the problem, you think that having ‘free and fair’ elections (US 2000 and 2004? UK postal vote rigging in the 90s and 00s?) between two parties funded and controlled by the same group of people is somehow better than a one-party state with no elections, or show elections. People in Russia speak out against their government every day without ‘fear for their life’. Regarding RT, it provides a much needed counter balance to the Western media’s monotone view on everything – i.e. the West is good and the East is bad.

    Re: Syria. Who’s being more rational (and moral), the Russian’s Lavrov or the West’s Clinton and Hague?

  92. Yes, I’m the wren, Mary. Very common in Irish and Celtic folklore.

    Ubiquitous. Loud and irritatingly monotonous song. Mmm.

  93. O/T, but not very far, cause bollox Obomber stole the BBC’s attention. One of three letters to the EDP today, after the BBC’s hysteria over their US election brief, so much more legitimate than our PCC election, as it looks like, has died down.

    It is from the totally discouraged and fed up ex agent to Chloe Smith, Margaret Eastham.

    Dear Sir

    I ready today’s information on the Conservative PCC candidate and I am very concerned. There is a gaping hole in this information which I feel that people of Norfolk have a right to know about. Colonel Athill says this is alluded to on something called LinkedIn (whatever that might be) but it is not on his website and it was not mentioned in the EDP today.

    At the beginning of this year Colonel Athill took up the post of British Territorial Director of an official body of the Czech Republic licenced by their Ministry of Trade. This body called the Czech Middle Asian Chamber of Commerce promotes trade with Russia, the Ukraine, Belarus, Kazakhastan, Afghanistan Pakistan Libya and Iraq with Colonel Athill in Great Britain. These are the only countries they promote trade with and they are all failed war-torn areas each with their own horrendous human rights records, details of which are readily available on the worthy website Human Rights Watch. And we dont have to look further than our own newspaper every week for news of Afghanistan.

    I quote Colonel Athill verbatim from an email to a concerned member of the public as saying his special role with this body is to “facilitate trade by British firms through the Czech Republic to new markets”. All goods from this country that can be exported to these dictatorships openly (if they are not under sanctions which they often are) can be done so through an export licence granted by the British Government. I will leave it to the imagination of the people of Norfolk what sort of goods need to be sent under cover through the Czech Republic to the failed states on their client list. Colonel Athill tries to brush his role with this Czech Government outfit to one side by saying that he is not being paid for being a director. That is irrelevant and we all know it. However as a Director of a Foreign Political Entity I am not sure he is entitled to stand as Police Commissioner in any event.

    I find it beyond disgraceful that the Conservative Party in Norfolk has given us this candidate without being fully open and transparent. I could never vote for someone with this background. It is distasteful and does not rest lightly with my conscience. It is not enough for Colonel Athill to say that he would consider resigning as the British Director of a Czech Government go-between if he is made Police Commissioner. He has those contacts and they will not cease being known by him and it is impossible not to feel uneasy. So for the first time in my adult life I shall not be voting Conservative. I have written to the person I have been most impressed with in his promises to us, especially his refusal to sign up political chums for the post of second in command. Mr Morphew assures me he has never tried to promote trade with war torn dictatorships in Central Asia so I shall vote for him.

  94. Don’t be mean Komodo. Their song lifts one’s heart. Fesity too if you go anywhere near their nest.


  95. Yes Mark and Jemand, as I said yesterday Shillary is nowhere to be seen or heard, for a change.

    There is a lot about her standing next time so I assume that this message has been coming out from her lair. Even mention of Chelsea. I think they watched too many episodes of Dynasty.

    Clinton 2016? Hillary is top choice as Democrats turn to next election

    Outgoing secretary of state is bookmakers’ favourite for presidency despite having said repeatedly she will not run again


  96. They sound like uniselector switches in need of oil, Mary.

    Give me a hedge sparrow any day.

  97. Further to Athill: his election leaflet attempts to link his candidacy with the Tory-led council, and is designed to look like a council handout. Some of the images may indeed be the property of Norfolk Council. Couldn’t find the actual publisher on it (I think this is illegal), but it would obviously be the Conservative Party.

  98. The mans on radio Norfolk Nick Conrad show, now Komodo.

    go go go, I can’t get on, been on the first phone in.

  99. resident dissident

    8 Nov, 2012 - 9:36 am

    “People in Russia speak out against their government every day without ‘fear for their life’”

    Tell that to Anna Politovskaya and the many other Russian journalists who have been murdered.

    And there were not just two candidates in the US presidential electorate – and if you think the two parties in the US were saying the same think you must add stupidity to your many defects.

    And regarding your question on Syria the answer is clearly Clinton and Hague.

  100. resident dissident

    8 Nov, 2012 - 9:40 am

    Mark Goulding

    And of course Syria and Iran never meddle in the affairs of other countries do they? Strangely enough your are somewhat quiet on this matter. What is it hypocrisy or your keyboard somehow freezes.

  101. resident dissident

    8 Nov, 2012 - 9:47 am

    “The daughter Katherine, about whom there was much speculation at the time when her father invaded Iraq, has been called to the Bar. Brother Nicky not doing so well. Euan – what is he doing? And young Leo. I actually feel very sorry for these children having such parents.”

    Not as sorry as i feel for your parents who probably tried so hard to teach you decency and manners. But even if they failed in that task perhaps you should reflect as to whether references to the Blair children actually add or detract from your arguments with Tony and Cherie.

  102. resident dissident

    8 Nov, 2012 - 10:02 am

    @John Goss

    You are right that you don’t entertain trolls or otherwise. The Islamofascists (and that is clearly their politics) were not extradited to the US because of connections with a website – rather more serious offences like conspiracy to murder and money laudering were the reasons. You might also wish to consider how they would have been dealt with in your beloved Russia (and also China given their treatment of their Muslim minorities) – your argument just defies any serious analysis. You might also consider whether you would be allowed similar freedom to use the www in China.

  103. Ignore the troll.

  104. Maybe it’s my old eyes, Nevermind, but I couldn’t find the required info on the leaflet that came through my door yesterday, and I don’t have it to hand. It’s not the same as the .pdf on his website, either.

    More significantly for leaflets everything published in support of the campaign must contain an imprint stating who printed and published the leaflet and their address. This usually takes form of a small print line at the foot of any leaflet saying “Printed by Anytown Printers, 30 High Street, Anytown, Anyshire and Published by John Smith, 25 Main Street, Anytown.” In this example John Smith is not the candidate, but the agent and the campaign headquarters or committee rooms is at 25 Main Street. This does not have to be John Smith’s residence but it does have to be where the campaign can be contacted. Your imprint must appear on every leaflet, poster, calling card, press release or anything else you produce as part of the campaign. Failure to do so could put you in breach of the Representation of the People Acts and your opponents will soon let you know if it does.


  105. In the free west, where everything is open, nobody in the press is allowed to mention the names of the lying, Anna Ardin and Irmeli Krans, or even Sofia Wilen. There is good news for us all. A new book by Guy Sims is available in English which covers chronologically Julian Assange’s time in Sweden and is now available in English. It is very reasonably-priced at less than $3. Arbed posted a link to it yesterday on ‘Why I am convinced Anna Ardin is a Liar’ and I bought a copy. I can tell you it is well worth the money.


    What I cannot understand is why the Swedish police and prosecution services are not on trial for perverting the course of justice. I would chip in if Assange’s lawyers were to put a case together. I am sure many others would too.

  106. resident dissident

    8 Nov, 2012 - 10:29 am

    “In the free west, where everything is open, nobody in the press is allowed to mention the names of the lying, Anna Ardin and Irmeli Krans, or even Sofia Wilen.”

    That may or may not be the case – but you can certainly mention it on the internet; which is considerably more freedom than you would be allowed in your beloved China if you were to make similar accusations of corruption against one of its “rational” leaders.

    By troll – I presume you mean someone who disagrees with and demolishes your stupid arguments.

  107. technicolour

    8 Nov, 2012 - 10:31 am

    And here we have a ridiculous and petty attack on a sincere and informative long-term poster from Komodo, who, when they’re not claiming to be writing ‘as a bit of a cunt’ links approvingly to lies and prejudices from the Daily Mail. Possibly because their views have been challenged, which is, of course, unforgivable enough to take personal insults onto the next post. Well done!

  108. No you (expletive deleted). It was a ridiculous and petty attack on a ridiculous and petty bird. Grow up.

  109. Suhayl, I have Tariq Ali’s ‘The Obama Syndrome: Surrender at Home, War Abroad’ on my ‘to read’ list. I’ve been trying to contact you to see if you would join this Facebook page:


    That goes for any other most capable writers and entertainers who enliven this blog.

  110. technicolour

    8 Nov, 2012 - 10:58 am

    Of course it was, Komodo. Have you tried taking your personal feelings about our feathered friends here? –


  111. technicolour

    8 Nov, 2012 - 11:05 am

  112. Hugh Muir has picked up on Athill, Nevermind

    A week until the police commissioner elections that nobody much wanted and a whole new era of accountability that nobody really understands. Not much focus on Norfolk thus far, but a rich mix there has been made richer still with the candidature of the Tory James Athill. Who he? He left the army as a colonel last year, having led British and Gurkha units and commanded a training regiment. He also held “diplomatic and operational positions in the Middle East, south-east Asia and, most recently, central Europe”. It’s the diplomatic stuff in central Europe that’s exciting interest. Fingers in quite a few pies, has the candidate, and though his website is exhaustive, one thing not immediately apparent there is his grand and curious title of UK territorial director for the CSOK, the Czech Middle Asian Chamber of Commerce. What’s that, asked a curious voter. Oh, it’s innocuous, said Athill. It’s about British firms trading in new markets via the Czech Republic. Then why didn’t you declare it on campaign literature? Well, it’s on my LinkedIn page, he said. And I did tell the Tories before they selected me. Might have been nice, in the new era of accountability, if he had mentioned it to the electorate. For he was the defence attache at the British embassy in Prague. And among the activities proclaimed by CSOK are industrial and defence undertakings in Iraq, Afghanistan, Kazakhstan and Libya. Nice chap, apparently, but people watch James Bond, Tinker Tailor. In a vacuum they think all sorts of things.


  113. U.S. WikiLeaks Criminal Probe ‘Ongoing,’ Judge Reveals


    A 2-year-old federal grand jury probe into the secret-spilling website WikiLeaks is still “ongoing,” a federal judge in Virginia revealed Wednesday in a brief ruling.

    It’s the first official confirmation since WikiLeaks founder Julian Assange was granted asylum by the Ecuadorean government in August that the grand jury investigation is continuing …

  114. No discussion of the Bush family is complete without respected journalist Russ Bakers extraordinary book – FAMILY OF SECRETS.

    You wont be disappointed.

    Here’s the Amazon Link: http://www.amazon.com/Family-Secrets-Dynasty-Powerful-Influence/dp/1596915579

  115. Dreolin, thanks for posting that link. I am increasingly convinced that if the defence team of Assange take on the Swedish police and prosecution services, they will win, and any case they thought they had would crumble.

  116. I hope you’re right, John. In any case, he’s been so thoroughly demonised in the media, it’s hard to see how anyone could claim he’d get a fair trial.

  117. Agreed Dreolin, but he would not be on trial, they would. What’s more it would probably get the prosecution service to show their hand, if they are holding anything of significance. The whole case is political. All the prosecution players are friends. This video, I have been informed, is doing the rounds in Sweden via Flashback.


    It is probably nearer to the truth than anything seen in our media.

  118. Thanks for the link John. I’ll watch that when I get home, later.

    And ‘GUEST’, you posted a link for me for which I intended to say thanks. Distractions distractions ..
    You intend to do something and before you know it you’ve changed apps and you’re doing/reading something else …

  119. Dreoilin,

    Thats ok, “distractions”, I know what you are saying all to well!.

  120. Appears to be in agreement with Mad Mel:


  121. Must be almost as much fun to work here as it is to be a guest –


  122. Ben Franklin (head honcho CIA Office for Craig Murray Operations)

    8 Nov, 2012 - 2:01 pm

  123. Ben Franklin (head honcho CIA Office for Craig Murray Operations)

    8 Nov, 2012 - 2:05 pm

    I see the magpie and colour me brown have formed an alliance with village idiot. Birds of a feather, schlock together, he he.

  124. Let’s all lighten up and listen to Karl Rove, Ben…


    If you can get past the very irritating insurance ad, that is.

  125. Ben Franklin (head honcho CIA Office for Craig Murray Operations)

    8 Nov, 2012 - 2:48 pm

    I am light as a featha, ‘modo.

    Not one to gloat, however, as this chapter leads to the next, governance.

    I was watching FOX when they called Ohio, and then called it for Barf-Orama, and was a little surprised when they called it on something so close with just 50% of the vote in. Like Rove I also smelled something rotten in Denmark, until the next morning.

    I thought the Rubes would be humbled, but they’ve doubled-down on the crazee. At what point does optimism, become delusion

  126. As you say, governance. And the Great US Public have succeeded in renewing the stalemate.

    We have crazies too, as Jay (7.09 am GMT, next thread) reminded us earlier:


    Want her? Please?

  127. Ben Franklin (head honcho CIA Office for Craig Murray Operations)

    8 Nov, 2012 - 3:21 pm

    with a forward by David Mamet….’nuff said.

    Mebbe you can tell me why so many look the other way at Russia and Syria? Not a word about the criminal states and their ruthlessness. Just askin’.

  128. doug scorgie

    8 Nov, 2012 - 3:52 pm

  129. We’re having trouble with reversing the Cold War doctrine of “no interference in the affairs of sovereign nations”, Ben.

  130. Have just seen a trailer for Yotam Ottolenghi, yet another cookery programme.

    ‘I was brought up in Israel (pictures of someone diving into a blue sea from a boat) (I think). I love the food of the Mediterranean. (pictures of him making hummous and of a bowl of tomatoes with a nice laughing Arab lady) It is my home.’

    Quite Mr Ottolenghi.

    Somewhat different for the Palestinians though, especially those in Gaza on their siege rations. And little or no freedom for them to roam around the Med. They cannot go further than 3 miles from their shore without being attacked by Israeli navy gunships nor can they exit through the crossing points unless they have an Israeli permit.


  131. Ben Franklin (head honcho CIA Office for Craig Murray Operations)

    8 Nov, 2012 - 4:20 pm

    Humanitarian intervention seems to be the cover story, Komodo. But I don’t understand your point on my question as to why US evil is so evident, whereas critiques of Assad and Putin are no where to be seen.

  132. resident dissident

    8 Nov, 2012 - 5:17 pm


    Given that Yotam Ottolenghi’s business partner is Palestinian from East Jerusalem I very much doubt that he needs lectures on such matters from you and your ilk. Quite why he cannot see Jerusalem as his home since that is where he was brought up by his parents through no fault of his own is quite beyond me. Of course actual stories of Jews and Arabs getting on with each other and exploring and respecting each other cultural heritage, of which cookery is a part, is something that bigots on either side will try to rubbish rather than promote as a positive way forward.

  133. Thanks for the digging Komodo, Athill has got so much mud on his stick, he’s toast now. On radio Norfolk this morning the other candidates starting to make quip’s about semtex, asking him whether he had supplied anything.

    His answer was that he ‘has not sold anything’ since he became UK director of Csok Czm in January.

    Having briefed the local paper and the BBC and actually had it flagged up by Nick Conrad, felt good today.

    This attempt by the coalition to control the future of the police by political stooges is breathtaking. What is really bugging me is that these stooges will get elected with the lowest turnout ever. But will they notice?

  134. technicolour

    8 Nov, 2012 - 5:25 pm

    Just about to make shuk-shaka: trad Israeli dish brought back by a musician friend of mine who was working with Israeli and Palestinian musicians. The current, genocidal policy of the Israeli government was doing no-one any good.

    “Birds of a feather, schlock together, he he”. Obviously, bullies prefer it when they’re not outnumbered. He he, indeed.

  135. Ben Franklin (head honcho CIA Office for Craig Murray Operations) 8 Nov, 2012 – 4:20 pm
    “why US evil is so evident, whereas critiques of Assad and Putin are no where to be seen.”

    Ben, if I might chime in on this with my two pence worth:

    Because of where we live.

    We question the authority that rules over us. Our propaganda reminds us daily how evil they are. Which they are.

  136. technicolour

    8 Nov, 2012 - 5:54 pm

    NB There’s been plenty of criticism of Putin on this blog; particularly with reference to journalists, the fixed elections (as criticised by the UN) and Chechnya. I’ve written some of it, fwiw.

    Otherwise, Phil is right – it’s geo-political.

  137. Ben Franklin (head honcho CIA Office for Craig Murray Operations)

    8 Nov, 2012 - 6:58 pm

    “Which they are.”

    Nolo Contendre, Phil. But the Hegemonists are Legion in the world, who would, if they had the scope, to meddle in the affairs of other Nations. Got any in mind?

  138. O/T Sa Vile’s chauffeur and another man arrested on historic rape charges not connected to the Sa Vile enquiries.


  139. I’m pretty surprised at the negative reaction here to Obama’s re-election. From the sounds of it, most here would have been happier for Romney to get in, so there’d really be some proper bitching to do before long. The cultist liar Romney was leading a party of lunatics, supported by crazies and the investor classes who wanted to see tax cuts and wars, no matter what.

    There is a vast difference between Romney and Obama, and try to understand that if Bernie Sanders was voted in, there would still be kill-lists and drone strikes. That part of the US system is pretty much out of political control.

  140. Ben Franklin (head honcho CIA Office for Craig Murray Operations)

    8 Nov, 2012 - 7:34 pm

    Forget it, Glenn. It’s Chinatown…:)

  141. Ben Franklin (head honcho CIA Office for Craig Murray Operations)

    8 Nov, 2012 - 7:54 pm

    BTW; I’ve been battling with ‘progressives’ on Bradley Manning for some time on a blog I frequent. It’s a battle i’ve been shuttered for, until now, because they wouldn’t discuss anything except how to get him re-elected. Now that excuse is gone, so I’m kicking some booty and taking no names.

    The latest…..http://www.armytimes.com/news/2012/11/ap-bradley-manning-offers-plea-acknowledging-wikileaks-role-110812/

  142. Yes there certainly are Palestinians who collude with the Occupation and the Occupiers. Even Abbas has just renounced the right of return. And there is a very rich Palestinian family who have supplied concrete for the construction of settlements on stolen land and for the wal that also surrounds the Palestinians and breaches the Green Line.


  143. Ben Franklin (head honcho CIA Office for Craig Murray Operations)

    8 Nov, 2012 - 8:54 pm


    He’s the only one holding the country together….(snark!)

    “As I approached the group, wading through two other protests taking place in the same square—one for Southern Moroccan independence, the other somehow affiliated with the Ivory Coast—I was overwhelmed with images of Assad, who most of the world holds responsible for 20,000 deaths over the past 20 months of civil war in Syria. The folks who had assembled here are some of his biggest fans.

    Saïd, a 30-something French Syrian who refused to give me his last name, said that he admires Assad’s fashion sense, along with everything else about him: “Just have a look at the suit. He’s stylish.” Saïd told me that he and his family have been Assad supporters since the beginning of the uprising. His mother is a Sunni Muslim and his father is a Christian, and he’s convinced that only Assad can maintain the secular Syrian state. “With Bashar, the different religions can coexist. If the United States helps depose him, it’ll be over. Salafis will take over and kill everyone.”


  144. King of nothing

    8 Nov, 2012 - 9:09 pm

    Glen, I’ve little time for Obama but I’m glad he won simply because the alternative was even worse. I doubt that anyone here would prefer Romney to have won but elections are about voting for the candidate that you least dislike which is a sad state of affairs.

  145. King of nothing

    8 Nov, 2012 - 9:10 pm

    That should have been “Glenn”. Apologies.

  146. O’s foreign policy is a disappointment – but if McCain had won, we’d have bombed Iran by now. Yes, O is the Drone King and hasn’t shut Gitmo and hasn’t saved the world, but a second term means the ageing and ailing Judge Ginsberg can retire from the Supreme Court knowing she won’t be replaced by a Repug judge, that women will still have the right to abortion, and yes, even contraception, in some states; that tiny baby steps have been made to get health care for 50 million uninsured, and god knows how many underinsured, Americans. You have no idea how many people here have heaved a sigh of relief that Mitt Rmoney has to go back to spending time with his family, his houses, his car elevators, his dancing horses and his magic underpants.

  147. Ben Franklin (head honcho CIA Office for Craig Murray Operations)

    8 Nov, 2012 - 9:36 pm

    KON, Falloch;

    Sagacious, you are :)

  148. obama what is he a tavistock cia manbot with a nice man on man blow job technique.
    i here that is standard training in mi6.
    strange how the bond movies have james as such a straight shooter when most of these freaks are warped sa vile types.
    obama has great soap box skills but without his teleprompt he is just another george bush jnr.
    dis man is not jfk ,rfk or martin luther king


    “That’s A Murderer In The White House!


  149. Kwaku London

    9 Nov, 2012 - 1:24 am

    I am not surprised by the negative reaction to Obama’s re-election. We all know he has been a disappointment in some of the policy paths he has taken. But certainly he is the lesser of evils. Hopefully with a second term we will know the real Obama. I guess he had an eye on re-election so much that he couldn’t go against some of the advice he was getting hence the drone strikes etc.

    I find the statement by the African ex-president that Bush did more for Africa than Obama as childish and short sighted. Bush spent money to repair his damaged reputation when he was on his way out. Thats why a road was named after him in Accra. After eight years of Obama we can properly make that comparism.

  150. Vronsky: re – Obamacare. Most of the features of this reform don’t kick in for another couple of years. Surely you’re not trying to suggest the Obamacare reforms has actually cost these relations of yours more money, and their situation that would have been better without it?

  151. I am not surprised by the negative reaction to Obama’s re-election.

    maybe he he orders a stop to the mindless drone kill collaterals and stops the use of depleted uranium use in missiles that are spreading cancer around the world.
    when he stops playing golf cuts down on the drug use and starts telling the truth then maybe we can cut him some slack.
    he is a wall street tool with the power to seem like a friend of the simple folk on main street.
    he is like all people in power a victim of blackmail to keep him in his place.
    he is in it for the power and the cash just like liar blair

  152. Tony: Can you think of any head of a powerful country, where that country was not doing evil things while that person was in charge? America would have carried on whoever was in charge.

    What’s this about drug use, and why shouldn’t Obama play golf? Sure these aren’t rather unfortunate prejudices you might (doubtless inadvertently) be pandering to?

    I’ll agree that he’s pandered to Wall Street, but that doesn’t actually make Obama their tool. More like having some very bad advisers. I very much doubt he’s “in it for the money” in the corrupt fashion of Blair.

    Do you know much about American politics, Tony Roma? It’s not like there’s one person calling all the shots. It’s not like a dictator, or a Prime Minister – the US President can often be rather powerless in various respects.

    IMHO, Obama is not to blame for everything wrong with US policy, he can’t do much about large parts of it. Getting Obamacare took enormous effort, if the face of belligerent, intractable opposition – and opposition who’s only interest is in that of the monied classes.

    This election has been an enormous victory – all the racist filth, the bought lies, the propaganda, the Teabaggers, Birthers, 10th’ers, the accusations of being a Kenyan, a Muslim, a Marxist, a commie (and a fascist) – all the astro-turf movements, and the billions of dollars from wealthiest people on Earth – it didn’t work.

    The election-rigging, dodgy poll machines, gerrymandering, throwing people off the voting roles, false registration, it all failed. All the determined lies of the opposition, despite the right-wing echo machine’s wall-to-wall pounding on them for years – it didn’t work.

    The country is changing – the Repug party is made up of teabaggers, gay-haters, religious nutballs and racist, misogynist crazies. That’s the Repug ‘base’ now. The leaders cannot rope it in anymore, the right-wing infrastructure benefits more by having them in opposition. (Everyone from Limbaugh to local politicians.)

    These crazies will continue to dominate the Repugs for some time, and are increasingly going to marginalise themselves.

    This election showed a major push towards sanity – seems like a lot of people can’t see a positive event right in front of them.

  153. look to the people the man surrounds himself with ex goldman shitsters running policy, ex monsanto types,ex nuclear industry people running nuclear regulators.
    employment of poachers who are now gamekeepers…
    obama has so far spent over 3 months playing golf.


    Obama reaches a new milestone, having gone golfing 90 times in less than three years as president. That’s about three months of golf, given that the excursions generally take about five hours – much of the useful portion of the day.

    glenn you say
    This election showed a major push towards sanity – seems like a lot of people can’t see a positive event right in front of them.

    nice start with yemen drone kills..

    the choice was papa doc or baby romney doc great choice.
    we shall see if we get any hope or change or just more jaw jaw waffle.

  154. Komodo,

    I’ve belatedly responded to you with a question over at “Drone Murder” about emails, where I’m also discussing with Jon the unannounced changes for the spambot filter, asking for prior notice and consideration in future before the bar is raised higher.
    PS. Did you use to work with uniselectors? Got an mp3 of one? :-)

  155. Tony, go look up how many vacations days George Bush Jr took ‘clearing brush’ in TX – many, many more days than O’s golf jaunts. If you don’t like PBO’s policies, then you’ll find agreement with me about some of them, but don’t start on the golf – it’s a Red State riff. Or is it that you’re upset that a black man plays golf? (Sorry, but black folks have been admitted to most golf clubs in the US in the last 30 years or so, thanks to Civil Rights legislation, even if women are still barred from some – that’s you Augusta.)

    Here’s your classy Mitt Romney denouement


    ‘Aides taking cabs home late that night got rude awakenings when they found the credit cards linked to the campaign no longer worked.’

    Always the businessman …

  156. It seems that members of the Obama Admiration Society have been wading in here overnight.

  157. Can the man cry? Why yes.

    Video: Four More Tears: Obama Weeps On Film
    A video released by his campaign team shows President Obama shedding tears during a speech praising his staff’s efforts.
    http://news.sky.com/ (being shown on Sky News currently)

    No tears for those he has been responsible for shredding and maiming though. Did he cry when he sat alongside Shillary and her cohort watching the supposed killing of Osama Bin Laden? No. He is as cold blooded as all the other psychopathic Western ‘leaders’ we have been landed with.

  158. Drones in space. A round up of US technology surveillance and weapon development.

    “Super Weapons and Global Dominion”:

  159. Snap – Couldn’t say I was a uniselector specialist, but I’ve come across them now and again in what is now very old equipment. They can be seen doing their stuff in crossbar (and Strowger) telephone exchanges, some of which may yet survive in less developed countries. I’m sorry, I never filmed one. :-)

  160. Humanitarian intervention seems to be the cover story, Komodo. But I don’t understand your point on my question as to why US evil is so evident, whereas critiques of Assad and Putin are no where to be seen.


    Spot the nation which most consistently claims to promote freedom and democracy. I think your answer’s there. Syria’s never pretended to have democratic values, (and Damascus was the destination for some of the CIA’s rendered victims). Putin’s a bastard, but he’s a bastard the Russians understand even if we don’t. He’s a major improvement on some of the bastards they’ve had.

    I think it’s the perception of hypocrisy that makes criticism of the US disproportionate. If the Cold War had ended with the US going bust, we knew the Russians would be all over the world and trying to rule it (badly). We didn’t anticipate that “victory” would mean the Americans doing exactly the same.

    Or something like that.

  161. This predates the ‘election’ but it is nevertheless an interesting piece. Paul Craig Roberts speaks to Cynthia McKinney, the president the American people were not allowed to have due mainly to the Israel lobby.


  162. Mary @ 7 Nov 9.05

    Only just got round to reading the Pilger article on poor Dr Dhafir. It makes my blood boil.


    Couldn’t agree more and the point he makes about the US plea bargaining being iniquitous is so right. I think of poor Talha Ahsan and Babar Ahmad stuck in solitary confinement with their only option to get out pleading guilty to something they did not do. American justice! Theracist May is another ugly familiar sucking on the shrivelled tit of the Wicked Witch of the West!

  163. @Phil – Drones in space

    Interesting link. Don’t have the time to read it all right now but have some thoughts regarding non-nuke weapons in space. It seems that there might be jurisdictional issues that could allow the white house to keep control over the use of this weapons system to circumvent congress and other political obstacles. Their deployment might not also be covered by existing treaties with nuke powers concerning weapons in space. And the one I find most fascinating is how these drones could be used to drop smart bomblets without invading the air-space of countries with normal aircraft. Bombs could literally fall out of space onto a target sitting outside a cafe – and no one would know where it came from.

  164. O/T (any of them)


    And the Cyclists Are The Lords of Creation mob are pedalling furiously in their wake….

    Sorry. mate. I didn’t see you? Typically because you were coming out of an unlit junction after dark and didn’t happen to be showing lights. Or because you’d ridden up to a junction on the inside of my ten-wheeler. Or because although there are two cycle lanes on this road, you’d decided to play slaloms with the cars in the carriageway. Or because the last time someone suggested you take a quick look at the Highway Code you gave them a mouthful of abuse – and they spotted you again.

    Test. Tax. Insure.

  165. Komodo: That’s exactly the type of lethal prejudice that makes life so difficult for cyclists. All cyclists guilty of the crimes you suggest, eh, every last one of them? I bet hundreds of people got killed and maimed this year already because of them. Oh hang on… how many have been killed by cyclists, compared with car drivers?

    Cyclists already pay tax. We also pay national insurance, and your place must be worth moving to if all car drivers obey all the rules!

    Admit it – they get in your way, that’s your problem with cyclists. We’d all be better off if they were sitting in traffic jams in their own metal cages like everyone else, right?

  166. LOL. Knew I’d draw some fire for that one. Surprised it wasn’t Technicolour, though. The idea that you are at least partially responsible for your own safety seems to be a live issue round here.

    The presumption that cyclists can do exactly as the whim moves them while everyone else (I don’t have a car, never have. I’m a biker), in addition to national insurance, pays for a road fund license, MOT’s, insurance and driving lessons and tests to make sure they DON’T do exactly as they please is IMO unfair.

    I overstated the case, obviously. Some cyclists, possibly most of them, ride with due care and attention. Sure, it’s not always the cyclist’s fault. But it is very far from the motorists, either. Actually, round here, I am impressed by the number of downright dumb cyclists who get away with their idiocy thanks to the alertness of car drivers. I’m a motorcyclist, remember. I hold no brief for cagers.

  167. ….and traffic jams? Often enough caused by some eco-friendly smug twat in Lycra failing to recognise that 20mph is very far from the speed for optimum fuel efficiency to which the queue of tired commuters behind him aspire. One cyclist can initiate more CO2 emission during his journey than a small soot factory. FACT (nearly)

  168. Ah, I didn’t realise you were simply trolling. Should be obvious, with comments such as “The presumption that cyclists can do exactly as the whim moves them” – that would be your presumption, of course. One might say with equal justification that car drivers feel they can park wherever they like. It’s a gross generalisation in your part.

    Prejudice, even. Suddenly it’s not just a problem with being a cyclist, it’s a matter of being a “smug twat in Lycra” too. The clothing is a problem. Their imagined smugness is a problem. It’s actually stupid prejudice that’s the problem.

    Don’t tell me – cyclists don’t appreciate your admonishments, as you grant them your wisdom as you pass? While every car driver – natch! – gives a smiley thumbs-up and a cheery “Thanks mate, I’ll look out for that in future!” whenever their shortcomings are pointed out.


  169. Not a prejudice, Glenn. Bitter experience. The worst are clad in Lycra. As a youth I cycled everywhere (without problems, having been well instructed) There weren’t cycle lanes then. There are now. Use them, please. Your response is partisan, so I take it that you are also a member of the Cyclist Lords of Creation, from whose Lycra-clad twat arsehole the effulgent rays of the solar orb may be -albeit dimly- discerned. But not at night. So sorry. You seemed to be a reasonable person.

  170. technicolour

    9 Nov, 2012 - 2:12 pm


  171. Ben Franklin (head honcho CIA Office for Craig Murray Operations)

    9 Nov, 2012 - 3:02 pm

    “I think it’s the perception of hypocrisy that makes criticism of the US disproportionate”

    That’s actually a relief, Komodo. I was afeared it was due to fond memories of Marxist hegemony :)

  172. Back to that US drone allegedly shot at by Iran.

    Glenn Greenwald writes.

    CNN Claims Iran Shot at a US Drone, Revealing the News Network’s Mindset

    Its Pentagon reporter parrots significant, inflammatory government claims without an iota of skepticism or balance


  173. Ben Franklin (head honcho CIA Office for Craig Murray Operations)

    9 Nov, 2012 - 3:52 pm

    “It seems that members of the Obama Admiration Society have been wading in here overnight.”

    More like perspicacious observers, Mary. Some people just want to whine and point fingers; others wish to understand the complexity, and study the peripherals, before making wide-ranging pronouncements of self-righteous indignation.

  174. @mary
    Saw u tried drawing Craig’s attention to the collapsed shopping cntre in accra, Ghana. I read from one of the websites is that the occupants of the building had turned the top floor into warehouse when infact it was NOT built for the purpose. th

    The idea of there been a engineering fault is little cause of the whole collapse. the Incompetent Mayor of the city was heard calling for the pulling down of the rest of the owner’s other buildings because he ‘didnt’ attin permit for the building.

    Since Craig you are in GHana can u give us updates/.

    On RObama, there’s no difference between them….either we bomb you NOW or Tommorrow, but then YOU HAVE TO BOMBED……..

  175. So sorry too, Komodo, not just about your rather idiotic bigotry against cyclists, but that you feel entitled to make it personal and be unpleasant for no other reason. It goes without saying you know nothing about my riding habits, my attire and so on, yet feel free to loose a stream of childish insults. That says vastly more about you than it does about me.

    As it happens, my main interest is motorbikes. Motorcyclists generally have a jaundiced view of the attitudes and practices of many car drivers, because they cause them serious accidents at virtually no risk to the car driver. Cyclists are even more at risk, because they lack the speed to get ahead of danger, are constantly being overtaken as if it were a god-given right/imperative, and lack the heavy safety clothing. I would not think this entitles me to insult everyone who drives a car.

    But that’s by-the-by, it’s clear you prefer school-yard name calling (“Lycra-clad twat arsehole”, etc.) to any genuine discussion.

    We’ve both learned something. I’m a cyclist at times, so you now know I’m a “Lycra-clad twat arsehole”. And now I know a bit more about you.

  176. Glenn:

    “And now I know a bit more about you.”

    And so do we all. Glenn your balanced responses reflect a maturity that one would like to assume here, in a blog like this. But unfortunately that is not the case. It baffles me how (apparently otherwise) intelligent people can stoop so low with language my teenager son would not use, at the drop of a pin, when someone simply disagrees with them. Its like crapping in public, to me. Shameful, disgraceful and anything but clever, which i think is their motivation.

    Thank you for your high standards. I have some sympathy with “Lycra-clad twat arsehole(s)” that had not been aroused earlier.

    I’m for “Keep this website clean”.

  177. Thanks Villager… not speaking about Komodo here, but it is a shame that genuine discussions between people who’ve been around, and should presumably show a little respect to each other, can’t happen in – as you say – a forum like this. It’s like someone feels entitled to throw their glass on the floor and spit at another, when this is supposed to be a respectable establishment.

    Heck, someone can call me what they like – one shouldn’t get upset about receiving anonymous insults if they’re going to get online. But it is a sorry thing to see at times, because you might feel we hang around here to see a higher standard. Mostly, it doesn’t disappoint at all – you expect no better from some, and enough others provide a perspective well worth considering.

    In points of disagreement, we have something to become interested in – and it becomes much more significant the longer that we’ve been regarding their perspectives. I’d like to discuss it, not just state a view!

    For instance, Mary – for who I have great respect – sees Obama’s re-election as no cause for any optimism at all, in fact it was treated as “bad news day”. I like to discuss that sort of thing, and refine my own thoughts given the opportunity of that interaction. That’s the purpose of this site, for me.

  178. Welcome Glenn and couldn’t agree with you more. Consensus ad idem.

  179. Chris Floyd
    To all those now hailing the re-election of Barack Obama as a triumph of decent, humane, liberal values over the oozing-postule perfidy of the Republicans, a simple question:

    Is this child dead enough for you?


  180. A dream.

    What a Paul Craig Roberts Administration Would Look Like

    But, of course, it is all a dream. No one who actually cares about our country is permitted to serve in public office.


  181. https://dronewarsuk.files.wordpress.com/2012/11/dronestrikefigs.jpg?w=497&h=287

    New Figures: Almost 1,500 US/UK Drone Strikes in Afghanistan Since 2009

    New information about the number of US drone strikes in Afghanistan has been revealed by DangerRoom, the national security blog at Wired.com. According to official US figures supplied to the website there have been a total of 1,160 US drone strikes in Afghanistan since the beginning of 2009. (Note each ‘weapon released’ is counted by the military as a strike; in press reports often several weapons releases at a single location are counted as a single ‘strike’.) This is not the overall total number of US drone strikes as figures have only been given from the beginning of 2009, while US drones have been operating in Afghanistan for several years before that. (Mike D Medialens)

  182. Ben Franklin (head honcho CIA Office for Craig Murray Operations)

    10 Nov, 2012 - 9:09 pm

    “It’s like someone feels entitled to throw their glass on the floor and spit at another, when this is supposed to be a respectable establishment.”

    Not wading in on the specifics, Glenn, but I would much rather be discussing a contentious point within boundaries, as you describe. If something offensive is written by someone you know to be reasonable, it’s easier to overlook. What I can’t stand is pyromania. You know, the folks who just want to arouse emotions for personal titillation, then stand back and lustfully watch the flames?

    A pyro is a bad maniac.

  183. http://www.commondreams.org/video/2012/11/09-0

    From part one of the interview:

    Well, one, I think that it’s morally obscene and spiritually profane to spend $6 billion on an election, $2 billion on a presidential election, and not have any serious discussion—poverty, trade unions being pushed against the wall dealing with stagnating and declining wages when profits are still up and the 1 percent are doing very well, no talk about drones dropping bombs on innocent people. So we end up with such a narrow, truncated political discourse, as the major problems—ecological catastrophe, climate change, global warming. So it’s very sad. I mean, I’m glad there was not a right-wing takeover, but we end up with a Republican, a Rockefeller Republican in blackface, with Barack Obama, so that our struggle with regard to poverty intensifies.

  184. James Petras on the aftermath of Hurricane Sandy. He does not refer to the Caribbean. I read yesterday that 400,000 Haitians are without food.

    Tropical Storm Sandy: Natural or Political Disaster?http://dissidentvoice.org/2012/11/tropical-storm-sandy-natural-or-political-disaster/

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