Obama Drones On

by craig on November 7, 2012 11:08 am in Uncategorized

Four more years of drone killings, Guantanamo, crazy FBI agent provocateur plots, whistleblower prosecutions and surveillance of citizens were going to come whoever won. Goldman Sachs funded both candidates royally. I probably prefer the slightly tempered or disguised neo-con to the red meat neo-con, but let nobody pretend it makes a vast difference.

A respected retired African President told me last week that George Bush did more for Africa than Obama. Amazingly, I believe that to be true; whatever his motives, a number of Bush initiatives pumped real money into useful African infrastructure. Obama’s relations with Africa have almost entirely revolved around location of military bases.

Perspective changes as you move around the globe.

Tweet this post

193 Comments

  1. It was an election between Tweedle Dee or Tweedle Dum.

  2. It’s dispiriting seeing so many of my friends greeting this as some kind of victory.

    You could also have mentioned the US being so pleased about cranking up the amount of weapons they sold the world last year, no doubt plenty of those ended up in Africa.

    Little piece in Foreign Policy on ‘persistent conflict’ being the US posture for the foreseeable future.

    http://www.foreignpolicy.com/articles/2012/11/06/a_period_of_persistent_conflict%20

  3. Craig, I take your point that on all the issues you cite, Obama is not really any better than Bush was or than Romney would be (and in some cases worse than Bush, although probably not Romney). But although it’s not relevant for non-Americans, there was a huge difference in terms of economic policy in this election, with Obama being clearly and vastly superior, even if he would be considered center-right or even just right-wing by UK standards. And Big Finance was massively behind Romney and fighting pretty hard to defeat Obama (although of course some firms give to both sides to a certain extent).

  4. “…Bush did more for America than Obama…”

    Africa, presumably.

  5. “George Bush did more for America than Obama”

    I think you mean Africa.

    If there is a substantive difference between Obama and Romney on foreign policy perhaps it is that Obama stands up to Israel a little more firmly than Romney would have done.

  6. Tony Blair was just on CNN International live for his reaction. Nothing unusual about that really. More curiously the interview took place in Jerusalem. Blair was wearing the obligatory poppy.

  7. While I agree Obama has a lot to be ashamed of – though I doubt he will be more penitent than any other politician with blood on his hands – I think the main issue here was about finally putting to sleep the stupid fantasy that America could expect to go back to the 1950s on any level. The ‘message’ from Romney’s mob was very much harking back to an America that if it ever did exist is long gone never to return. America has to deal with the 21st century reality and while Obama has his failings at least he’s smart enough and realistic enough to understand that reality.

    I’m thankful Obama won. It might not get any better but it could have got a whole lot worse very fast.

    I’m curious to see just how much more freedom the President will exercise in his second term.

  8. Yes, Obama and Romney – the election essentially came down to Last Puppet Standing. That said, Obama’s approach on Iran may be slightly less gungho moronic than Romney’s but there’s no guarantee with that. And if Romney had won, the evangelists would have pushed and pushed anti-abortion and Romney would probably have just nodded it through. So, yeah, relief that Romney wont be POTUS but I have no illusions about Obama.

  9. To avoid confusion, Anon at 11:54am is me. I’m not Anon at 11:48 or any other Anon in this thread so I’m Anon (blue) again for this thread (it sort of stuck from an earlier post with multiple anons).

  10. Maybe you’d better call yourself Onymous, Anon(blue)…

  11. So Obombney defeated Robama. Same difference…

  12. This was from the time before Obama first got elected.

    “Have we had the same two families in charge for too long?”…

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ldtmuZHVUWY

    That took guts to say that, we need more like him.

  13. Komodo,

    Only reason I don’t pick a “proper” handle is that it would encourage me to post here more often rather than just read.

    PS: Clark come back!

  14. Goldman Sachs funded both candidates royally.

    To name but one. Naming others may be problematical, as this piece explains:
    http://www.businessspectator.com.au/bs.nsf/Article/US-election-Obama-Romney-pd20121106-ZSSKT?OpenDocument&src=sph&src=rot

    (sorry it’s the Eructator- but it came from the FT, which has a paywall)

  15. The Melcom store in Accra has collapsed. Sadly many are trapped underneath the rubble.
    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-africa-20237230

  16. Turkey has asked NATO ie the USUKIsNATO axis, to place Patriot missiles on its border with Syria. And all this time we thought that Obomber was electioneering.

    Or perhaps La Clinton has been doing the business. There is talk of her standing in 2016. She is supposed to be giving up the Obomber job in January.

  17. “Working Links & Other Welfare to Work Companies and the Labour Party.”

    http://intensiveactivity.wordpress.com/2012/11/06/working-links-other-welfare-to-work-companies-and-the-labour-party/

  18. And we have such an open democracy here in the UK.

    7 November 2012 Last updated at 12:22

    Five marines charged with murder to remain anonymous

    The identity of five Royal Marines charged with murder after an incident in Afghanistan will not be disclosed, a judge has decided.

    The men will remain anonymous until their court martial has finished, Judge Advocate General Jeff Blackett ruled.

    The decision will be reviewed when court proceedings have concluded.

    All five have been charged with the murder of an unknown Afghan national contrary to Section 42 of the Armed Forces Act 2006.

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-20239012

    WHY?

  19. Mary,

    I was thinking same re: any child abuse prosecution. We’ll not know who’s been charged. A veil will be drawn to ‘protect the children’. Secret courts are anathema to both justice and democracy.

  20. Good post. Anyone know how to copy and paste a link on an android phone?

  21. 4 more years = much more drones. Whoever won, it was going to herald in the 4th term of George Bush.

  22. “…but let nobody pretend it makes a vast difference.”

    Well, for example, if you’re gay, lesbian, trans, a women, it makes a massive difference. But the sentiment in your remark largely is coming from exactly that group of people who are none of those, and seem to think these issues are not so important in the global scheme of things.

    Not to say I otherwise expect much different than what’s in your first sentence, but it doesn’t help to be dismissive of more than half the population.

  23. Cameron to escalate his MidEast shitstirring-

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/middleeast/syria/9659247/Britain-to-organise-armed-Syrian-rebels-into-efficient-fighting-force.html#

    Quite a lot of fundamentalist Islamist jihadis you’re courting there, Dave. I’m sure they’ll show their gratitude somehow.

  24. Supernaut

    Life would likely be marginally worse for women and minorities who live in the United States under the Republicans (though I doubt that Romney would in fact have followed that mad agenda with gusto). I have a problem with American women who think their life being a bit better outwieghs women being blown limb from limb in Afghanistan, Iraq, Sirte or wherever. But there you are.

  25. Yup, as the old saying goes, it doesn’t matter who you vote for, the military-industrial complex always gets in.

  26. Anon (blue)

    7 Nov, 2012 - 1:00 pm

    Giles,

    On android browsers Press and hold the link then select copy URL from the menu which should pop up. To paste press and hold wherever you want to paste it then select paste.

  27. @Craig

    Agreed. Just like the identity politics of gay Americans that sees them saluting homosexuals being able to openly serve in the most barbarous killing machine on the planet, the US military.

  28. Anon (blue)

    7 Nov, 2012 - 1:03 pm

    Or you can also share the link (from menu) to email, twitter etc I forgot to add

  29. And referring to the above as somehow constituting ‘progress’.

  30. Quoting from Veterans Today.
    « Press TV the Iranian satellite channel has been banned in Europe supposedly by an order from the European Union when however Maja Kocijancic, spokeswoman for the EU foreign policy chief, Catherine Ashton, told Press TV.
    “I have to tell you that this is a decision of Eutelsat and Arqiva and you have to ask them, it is their decision,”
    “The EU … has adopted new restrictive measures against Iran, but they focus on finance, energy, trade and transport, not telecommunication. And do not contain elements which could have forced Eutelsat to take such a step,” Kocijancic added.

    Gordon Duff of Veterans Today Explains.”In a flagrant violation of freedom of speech, Eutelsat SA ordered media services company, Arqiva, on October 15 to stop the broadcast of several Iranian satellite channels, including Press TV.
    Eutelsat is a person, not a company. Eutelsat says it is European, but it is actually Israeli. French sounding ‘Michel de Rosen’ runs Eutelsat, an Israeli citizen, a company with Israeli stockholders, a company long dictated to by extremist groups within Israel, the militant ultra-nationalists of the Likudist regime of Netanyahu,”

    He goes on to say. “When Eutelsat chose to choke off Iran and end free speech in Europe, many spoke up but none pointed a finger at Israel and their desire to paint Iran with a ‘black brush’,
    Duff said slamming European countries for their silence over the ban on the broadcast of Iranian satellite channels in Europe. “One organization after another, all controlled opposition, part of Israel’s ‘game theory warfare’, rose in self-righteous anger and, as usual, pointed in the wrong direction,” he added.
    Duff described the company as one of the Israeli-owned “chokepoints” which are created to “make sure all communication, all progress, all privacy is subject to what is allowed.”
    “In a flagrant violation of freedom of speech, Eutelsat SA ordered media services company, Arqiva, on October 15 to stop
    the broadcast of several Iranian satellite channels, including Press TV.”

    “It is absolutely unacceptable for us that a company can interrupt a nation’s media in this way. Eutelsat’s decision disregards the importance of the liberty of expression and the free circulation of information,” National Union of Journalists chief, Dominique Pradalie, told Press TV.

  31. Tory MP questions civilian drone deaths in Commons

    Tuesday 06 November 2012

    by Roger Bagley in Parliament

    Printable

    Email

    Conservative MP Rehman Chishti faced combined attack from a Lib Dem ally and a Tory minister when he challenged the use of deadly unmanned drones today.

    Mr Chishti launched a Westminster debate to protest against civilian deaths from drone attacks in Pakistan and Afghanistan.

    The Gillingham Tory MP quoted estimates that up to 885 civilians had been killed by US drones in Pakistan.

    /..
    http://www.morningstaronline.co.uk/news/content/view/full/125779

    Look at the shocking and complacent response.

    Mr Chishti will not be advancing up the parliamentary ladder.

  32. Anon (blue)

    7 Nov, 2012 - 1:11 pm

    Florida just jumped up to 99.3% Obama win on Intrade (was 95% 1/2 hour ago). Looks like the people with money are certain that’s going Democrat when all is said and done.

  33. Eh, Romney or Obama, the only difference is which corporations will start getting government orders. Romney has already announced big purchases from the arms industry. Obama I guess gets less support from there.

    As to the drones, etc., the resident of the White House has very little to say. It’s none of his responsibility: he has military advisers to decide on such technicalities. However, I’ve heard it was Obama’s personal efforts that brought about swapping B-52s for Predators in Afghanistan.

    As to foreign policy… well, it was (supposed to be) run by Ms Clinton… What did you expect.

  34. Anon (blue)

    7 Nov, 2012 - 1:15 pm

    Norse,

    I notice PressTV is still carried by the UK based “LiveStation” Internet tv service (Windows/Mac/Linux/Android/iPhone etc). I wonder if they are getting pressure to remove the channel?

  35. Bush’s aid to Africa in the key area of health was tied to deeply conservative principles of abstinence, and avoiding the promotion of contraception. I suspect taking a positive view of his role there would require similarly conservative principles. http://www.trust.org/alertnet/blogs/africa-views/a-condom-condemnation-george-bushs-hiv-and-aids-legacy-in-africa/

  36. ‘as the old saying goes, it doesn’t matter who you vote for, the military-industrial complex always gets in.’

    True- and this fact is a misfortune felt more painfully in Yemen & the NW Frontier than here, KOWN.

    The only siver lining I can identify in O’Bombers 2nd term is that it has almost certainly discomfited Netanyahu- the two men clearly niggle each other terribly, but for the sake of the real ‘special relationship’, both men must continue to grin & bear it.

  37. Is it possible that the Democrats have deliberately moved to the right so that the Republicans have got no where to go but into the crazy-zone? Capturing and holding the centre-right of politics means they can marginalise the GOP until it becomes effectively unelectable and in perpetual opposition.

  38. John Goss NB

    David Cameron vowed to work with newly-reelected Barack Obama to find ways to end the bloodshed in Syria after hearing “horrendous” stories of suffering from refugees at a camp in Jordan.

    http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/david-cameron-vows-to-find-ways-to-end-syria-bloodshed-8294091.html

  39. “Tom Lehrer – We Will All Go Together When We Go”

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=frAEmhqdLFs

  40. My friend Donald is cross. LOL So there is little schadenfreude.

    Furious Trump calls for a ‘revolution’ after ‘disgusting injustice, sham and travesty’ of Obama’s re-election
    The Donald took to Twitter Tuesday night after it became apparent Obama would win election
    Called for a ‘revolution’ and added that Obama’s re-election was a ‘disgusting injustice’
    Later deleted several of his more extreme tweets
    Conservative billionaire is famously outspoken over president and was high-profile member of so-called ‘birther’ movement

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2229109/Election-2012-Donald-Trump-tweets-anger-following-disgusting-injustice-Obamas-election.html

  41. “Nick Harvey (Minister of State (Armed Forces), Defence; North Devon, Liberal Democrat)”

    “In the last three years to 19 June 2012, 176 strikes have been carried out by UK Reaper unmanned air vehicles (UAV) in Afghanistan. Reaper is the only UK UAV which carries weapons. I cannot comment on UAVs or strikes by other nations. Reaper is acquired, supported and armed through the US government. The prime contractor to the US government for the construction of Reaper is General Atomics—Aeronautical Systems Inc., based in California. The UK takes every reasonable measure to avoid civilian casualties. I am aware of only one incident where individuals not classified as insurgents were killed by a UK Reaper UAV. The incident took place on 25 March 2011 and resulted in the death of four civilians in addition to two insurgents. An International Security Assistance Force (ISAF) investigation was carried out and concluded that the actions of the Reaper crew had been in accordance with extant procedures and ISAF rules of engagement.”

    http://www.theyworkforyou.com/wrans/?id=2012-06-26a.113096.h&s=date%3A20120626+column%3A187+section%3Awrans

  42. “The future of the USA – 2012-2016 (Part 3) – The breakdown of the US socio-political fabric”

    http://www.leap2020.eu/The-future-of-the-USA-2012-2016-Part-3-The-breakdown-of-the-US-socio-political-fabric_a9998.html

  43. I’m glad that I’m a friend of America, because that enabled me to enjoy Obama’s victory. The thought of a Mormon becoming the most powerful person on earth – shiver me timbers!

  44. Nick Harvey, sadly had to go. His opposition to supporting an Israeli first strike on Iran had been noted….

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2203892/Nick-Harvey-axed-supporting-Iran-attack.html

    And Rachel Stevens is wearing a black jumpsuit. Never heard of her, but it must be important or the Mail wouldn’t put it on the site.

  45. Uzbek in the UK

    7 Nov, 2012 - 3:40 pm

    Mr Murray,
    .
    Not to defend Obama but do you seriously think that Romney would have ended drones? I doubt it very much. US is in near future unlikely to commit more ground forces and for whoever is in Oval Office drones are ‘good’ substitute. Republicans and Democrats all depend on those who support aggressive policies and rush to cash in on terrorism threat.
    .
    US drones will continue until there is an institution (international perhaps) that will have power and influence to put stop on it. Or until US public takes this matter seriously and demands from the government to stop drones. Until then I am afraid it does not really matter who is in the Oval Office.

  46. Uzbek in the UK

    7 Nov, 2012 - 3:48 pm

  47. The Yanks obviously love all that sleb stuff on the RH side of the webpage.

    The Daily Mail has overtaken the New York Times to become the world’s most visited newspaper website, according to online tracking service Comscore. The biggest increase in readers has been in the US – so how did this very British institution do it?

    There is something compellingly simple about MailOnline. No fancy site navigation, picture carousels or slideshows – just a front page with stories and pictures. Thousands of them.

    /..
    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-16746785

  48. Sorry, Uzbek. Drones are here to stay. Market forces ™, you see. The US hasn’t even signed the 1997 Ottawa Landmine Ban Treaty. The types it has given up were delegitimised (under Bush) in 2004 and action began on these last year….

    http://www.reuters.com/article/2011/02/14/us-usa-landmines-idUSTRE71D6F020110214

    Drones are actually much more use than landmines, and the manufacturers are lobbying like crazy for US contracts.

  49. After 4 years Obama kept one promise ,and that was to his children. He got them a dog !
    Wonder what he manages in his second term ?
    50% voter turn out. Wonder how many voted just to keep Romney out ?

  50. Amazed at the number of people (tho’ not here) expressing relief at Obama’s re-election as if it made any difference.

    Simon Schama on R5 this morning made the point that from a foreign policy perspective there is no real difference between Rombama and Obney.

  51. Jemand,

    I have just suspended it until I can get more evidence as to its truth or otherwise, as Mary seemed to find evidence that he is twittering away quite unconcernedly

  52. I never knew that you were a wren, Dreoilin, my favourite little bird. I always pronounced it to myself as Dree Oil In. I see I was wrong.

    http://wiki.answers.com/Q/What_is_the_Gaelic_word_for_wren

  53. Imagine if the Drones just targetted the poor and isolated with gifts. Ipods containing audiobooks and uplifting tunes, wooly socks, lego, mince pies. The country would be dazzled and treated into hopefulness.

    No, we direct industry to smash people into the soil.

  54. Do you know the multi story building that has collapsed in Accra Craig. Terrible. Are building standards observed or would there be some natural cause?

  55. Mark Golding @ 1.58 p.m. I noticed that too on the news this morning and told a friend that we (the UK) were going to get involved in another Zionist war this time in Syria. And Iran will not be far behind. Very disturbing.

    This in my opinion is an attempt to divert attention from Ted Heath’s buggering (and possibly murder, because some never returned) of little boys on his yacht. The boys were supplied from the children’s home in Jersey, apparently by Savile, according to David Icke, whose fantastic blog is no longer looking like the fantasy it was once thought to be. According to his blog the boys’ throats were slit as part of the sexual gratification. And all the other child abuse from powerful and protected people.

    Hopefully the more rational countries with muscle, Russia and China, will prevent these desperate acts from a desperate government. Like Thatcher, Cameron, Thatcher’s colleague in seedy African arms’ deals, thinks a good war will get him another term. He is currently on an arms’ sales tour of the middle east. Doesn’t it make you sick?

  56. Tom Watson accuses May of “a cover-up” over child abuse claims


    The media may be transfixed by the spectre of a paedophile cabinet minster abusing children, but what actually matters is that thousands and thousands of children, whose lives have been ground into nothing, who prefer to kill themselves than carry on, who have nowhere to turn, to whom nobody listens, whom nobody helps. Does she sincerely want to start making amends or can she live with being what she’s just announced – the next stage of a cover-up.

  57. doug scorgie

    7 Nov, 2012 - 4:56 pm

    Mark Golding – Children of Conflict
    7 Nov, 2012 – 1:58 pm

    “David Cameron vowed to work with newly-reelected Barack Obama to find ways to end the bloodshed in Syria after hearing “horrendous” stories of suffering from refugees at a camp in Jordan.”

    However he did not visit the ten Palestinian refugee camps in Jordon to hear their “horrendous” stories of suffering.

    The West is, and has been for a long time, governed by war criminals.

    Ending the bloodshed in Syria, as most posters on this blog know, is a simple matter of stopping the US; UK; Israel; Saudi Arabia and Turkey supplying weapons and training to the Syrian rebels and an insistence that the rebels agree to talks, through mediators, with the Assad regime with genuine democratic changes on the table.

    This is not Messers Obama; Cameron; Netanyahu; Abdullah bin Abdul Aziz and Erdogan’s take on how to end the bloodshed. Their view is that the end (regime change) justifies the means – no matter how many innocent men, women and children die. Regime change at all costs!
    We must find a way to end all state sponsored terrorism which has taken over from diplomacy and conciliation in dealing with international conflicts: a vertical uphill challenge.

  58. Abe Rene

    “I’m glad that I’m a friend of America, because that enabled me to enjoy Obama’s victory.”

    I wonder what exactly this enjoyment entails? Do you have even the faintest idea, as a human being, the meaning of the word joy? Or beyond the word, the actual feeling?

    Sorry to awake you. Please carry on…

  59. Did you know that there are no….
    now ten enquiries taking place into child abuse? All designed to fog us so that nobody will have the slightest idea what is going on. Nobody will be brought to justice.

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/crime/jimmy-savile/9661795/Independent-inquiry-to-examine-claims-of-Jersey-abuse.html

    ~~~

    The on-air presenters at the BBC are to have their contracts redrawn so that they cannot evade tax. That will upset the likes of Paxman and Bruce but the catch is that the new contracts will only come into place when their present ones expire. I expect they have all been given good notice of this to allow the exisiting contracts to be extended.

  60. Did you know that there are no

    …business like show business?

  61. Inquiries are the politicians smoke grenade. The more they lob the more they have to hide.

  62. John Goss and Doug Scorbie As you said.

    Cameron is a complete and utter shit.

    Cameron: I’ll work with Obama to ensure Syria is top priority
    PM hears ‘appalling stories’ of suffering during visit to Za’atri refugee camp in Jordan, home to 23,000 Syrians

    http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2012/nov/07/cameron-obama-syria-top-priority

    Many of those Palestinian refugees in Jordanian camps are now second and third generation from Al Naqba in 1948.

  63. Cameron’s stooge, the windbag full of hot air known as Clegg, had a hard time at PMQs today when he deputised for his master.

    Heckled fromn both sides.
    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-20238334

  64. Guest- many thanks for the link @3.07PM

    The points about deteriorating educational standards and infrastructure in the US are well made. The recent ‘Superstorm’ has certainly highlighted shortcomings in the latter.

  65. Ben Franklin (head honcho CIA Office for Craig Murray Operations)

    7 Nov, 2012 - 5:51 pm

    “Life would likely be marginally worse for women and minorities who live in the United States under the Republicans (though I doubt that Romney would in fact have followed that mad agenda with gusto)”

    You miss the point on Romney, Craig. The Republicans want a figurehead POTUS to ditto the Congressional Agenda.(see the NO-VETO Bush) Therefore, Romney would be irrelevant. The momentum for the right has been shifting down. Like a twenty-ton flywheel, it takes a lot of foot/lbs of energy to reverse the Juggernaut. The Framers designed the bicameral structure for slow change. That’s why you have the boiling kettle of the House of Representatives, and the cooling saucer of the Senate. You might not like it, but there it is….

  66. @ John Goss,

    “Mark Golding @ 1.58 p.m. I noticed that too on the news this morning and told a friend that we (the UK) were going to get involved in another Zionist war this time in Syria. And Iran will not be far behind.
    Very disturbing.”

    I don’t think that the trajectory of US foreign policy is going to deviate from the predetermined plan ( unless the US economy collapses):-

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SXS3vW47mOE

    Now – when someone at the top echelon of the military provides this kind of evidence – then one would not be logical to think that the same path that Clark has stated is the US plan, then we simply have to accept that the warmongering led by the US will continue.

  67. Correction:-

    “…not be logical to think that the same path that Clark has stated is ( not) the US plan…”

  68. Carelessly tried to watch the BBC News today. The prog lasts for 30 minutes. After 20 minutes, they’re still waffling about the US election. Cut to a BBC reporter in China, who is asked what the Chinese TV are saying about the US election. He practically rolls his eyes and sarcastically states that the Chinese seem to think what’s happening in their own country is as important as what’s going on in the US. Huh. Shall we get a Chinese person for the next DG of the BBC?

  69. Good book by Tariq Ali on President Obama – ‘The Obama Syndrome: Surrender at Home, War Abroad’ – strongly recommended.

    http://www.versobooks.com/books/1026-the-obama-syndrome

  70. “The government outsources the process of stopping private sector tax abuse to…the private sector”

    http://www.taxresearch.org.uk/Blog/2012/11/07/the-government-outsources-the-process-of-stopping-private-sector-tax-abuse-to-the-private-sector/

  71. Agree on the smoke bombs, Mary, what we now need is ‘deliverance’ of said persons to the schafott, or apply for crowd funding of a few Cz 750M1, forget the waste of taxpayers money…

  72. First Wednesday: Trouble at the BBC – Savile, management and public trust

    November 7, 2012 7:00 PM

    The last time the BBC set up an internal inquiry of the scale of the Pollard Inquiry it resulted in a shake up that saw the resignation of the Director General and the Chairman. Nearly ten years on from the Hutton Inquiry pressure is again mounting at the BBC and there are calls for those at the top to “fall on their swords”.

    Join us as we ask whether the criticism levelled at the BBC and its management is fair and how damaging it could be. Does the failure to adequately justify and explain the reasons for dropping the Newsnight investigation into Jimmy Savile’s past point to a larger problem with decision-making at the BBC?

    Chaired by Steve Hewlett, a writer, broadcaster and media consultant.

    With:

    Sian Kevill, runs independent production company, Make World Media. Previously she was editor of the BBC’s Newsnight programme where she won two BAFTA and two RTS awards, she also worked on BBC World News where she had overall editorial responsibility.

    Stewart Purvis, professor of television journalism at City University London. He is a former Editor-in-Chief and CEO of ITN, and Ofcom’s partner for content and standards.

    David Elstein, chairman of the board of openDemocracy Ltd and of the Broadcasting Policy Group. Previously he launched Channel 5, worked for Sky as head of programming and began his career at the BBC as a producer and director.

    Jean Seaton, Professor of media history at the University of Westminster.

  73. That is at the Frontline Club. They usually film these events and put up a video online later

  74. Reality check on ObamaCare. My sister-in-law in Utah has discovered that if she and her husband wish to retire (both early 60s) they will need a joint income of $40,000 a year just to pay for health insurance.

  75. resident dissident

    7 Nov, 2012 - 7:40 pm

    @John Goss

    “Hopefully the more rational countries with muscle, Russia and China,”

    I feel your pain at seeing all these “free and fair” elections in countries where it is permitted to express different viewpoints without fear for your life. Weren’t you the joker who was linking to Russia Today so as to receive undistorted eulogies on your comrades in North Korea?

    Some of us actually prefer our irrational democracies to your rationality.

  76. Assange says victorious Obama ‘wolf in sheep’s clothing’

    I asked for my 16-yr old’s opinion. His response: Every politician is a wolf in sheep’s clothing! Profound! Aren’t there any statesmen left?

    http://www.google.com/hostednews/afp/article/ALeqM5gBV6wL34-1aeahv-4CFKE1Sq6pYw?docId=CNG.634648fad1c5f1767fb60069864f215a.e1

  77. “Syria is an enduring project. This is a leaked joint US-UK intelligence file:

    “In order to facilitate the action of liberative [sic] forces… a special effort should be made to eliminate certain key individuals [and] to proceed with internal disturbances in Syria. CIA is prepared, and SIS (MI6) will attempt to mount minor sabotage and coup de main [sic] incidents within Syria, working through contacts with individuals… a necessary degree of fear… frontier and [staged] border clashes [will] provide a pretext for intervention… the CIA and SIS should use… capabilities in both psychological and action fields to augment tension.”

    That was written in 1957,”

    http://johnpilger.com/articles/the-liberal-way-to-run-the-world-improve-or-we-ll-kill-you

  78. And in 1982, this from Oded Yinon. Find/search for the word SYRIA. Syria comes in 18 times.

    A Strategy for Israel in the Nineteen Eighties
    by Oded Yinon

    This essay originally appeared in Hebrew in KIVUNIM (Directions), A Journal for Judaism and Zionism; Issue No, 14–Winter, 5742, February 1982, Editor: Yoram Beck. Editorial Committee: Eli Eyal, Yoram Beck, Amnon Hadari, Yohanan Manor, Elieser Schweid. Published by the Department of Publicity/The World Zionist Organization, Jerusalem.

    At the outset of the nineteen eighties the State of Israel is in need of a new perspective as to its place, its aims and national targets, at home and abroad. This need has become even more vital due to a number of central processes which the country, the region and the world are undergoing. We are living today in the early stages of a new epoch in human history which is not at all similar to its predecessor, and its characteristics are totally different from what we have hitherto known. That is why we need an understanding of the central processes which typify this historical epoch on the one hand, and on the other hand we need a world outlook and an operational strategy in accordance with the new conditions. The existence, prosperity and steadfastness of the Jewish state will depend upon its ability to adopt a new framework for its domestic and foreign affairs.

    /..

    http://cosmos.ucc.ie/cs1064/jabowen/IPSC/articles/article0005345.html

  79. Yes, I’m the wren, Mary. Very common in Irish and Celtic folklore. :)

  80. Resident Dissident

    I don’t normally entertain trolls but in the interests of freedom of expression I refer you to British-born subjects Talha Ahsan and Babar Ahmad who are accused of having connections with a website in 1998 (if my memory serves). Each have been in English jails for more than 6 years and 8 years respectively without charge before being extradited to solitary confinement in the good old US of A, another free country with a Gulag in Cuba which has contained some 800 prisoner. Only one of these has been tried and convicted of anything. Thank God for your democracy. Jokers come in all colours. Ask to borrow one of your friend’s mirror.

  81. Well said John. Your namesake writes of the US Gulag and one US citizen Dr Rafil Dhafir.

    The Political Trial of a Caring Man and the End of Justice in America
    By John Pilger

    November 07, 2012 “Information Clearing House” –

    [..]
    That was 1997, more than five years before George W. Bush and Tony Blair invaded Iraq for reasons they knew were fabricated. The bloodshed they caused, according to recent studies, is greater than that of the Rwanda genocide.

    On 26 February 2003, one month before the invasion, Dr. Rafil Dhafir, a prominent cancer specialist in Syracuse, New York, was arrested by federal agents and interrogated about the charity he had founded, Help the Needy. Dr. Dhafir was one of many Americans, Muslims and non-Muslims, who for 13 years had raised money for food and medicines for sick and starving Iraqis who were the victims of sanctions. He had asked US officials if this humanitarian aid was legal and was assured it was — until the early morning he was hauled out of his car by federal agents as he left for his surgery. His front door was smashed down and his wife had guns pointed at her head. Today, he is serving 22 years in prison.
    [..]
    http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article32967.htm

  82. This goes with my post above at “7 Nov, 2012 – 3:07 pm”

    “The position taken by the Obama administration in last week’s oral arguments is further confirmation that the US political establishment is moving rapidly toward authoritarian forms of rule.”

    http://www.wsws.org/articles/2012/nov2012/cour-n07.shtml

  83. This is the wife of the then Governor of New York.

    ‘The then Governor of New York, George Pataki, called this “money laundering to help terrorist organisations … conduct horrible acts”. He described Dr. Dhafir and the supporters of Help the Needy as “terrorists living here in New York among us … who are supporting and aiding and abetting those who would destroy our way of life and kill our friends and neighbours”. For jurors, the message was powerfully manipulative. This was America in the hysterical wake of 9/11.’

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Libby_Pataki Note her allegiance to Israel.

  84. “anon: Tony Blair was just on CNN International live for his reaction. Nothing unusual about that really. More curiously the interview took place in Jerusalem. Blair was wearing the obligatory poppy. ”

    Well Blair did declare his home as being in the Zionist occupied city of Jerusalem.

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1169342/An-identity-crisis-Blair-Former-PM-describes-Jerusalem-home.html

    The only honest thing he’s ever said

  85. This goes with my post above at “7 Nov, 2012 – 3:07 pm” and at “7 Nov, 2012 – 9:22 pm”

    ““The day we see truth and do not speak is the day we begin to die.”

    – Martin Luther King”

    http://www.paulcraigroberts.org/2012/08/20/amerikas-future-death-paul-craig-roberts/

  86. Blair was supposed to have the use of a whole floor of that hotel which is very expensive. I believe he has moved to a rented house in Jerusalem now.

    The daughter Katherine, about whom there was much speculation at the time when her father invaded Iraq, has been called to the Bar. Brother Nicky not doing so well. Euan – what is he doing? And young Leo. I actually feel very sorry for these children having such parents.

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2226123/Proud-parents-Tony-Cherie-Blair-daughter-Kathryn-called-Bar.html

  87. Dispiriting. One of my best friends was on Facebook, urging the US to vote Obama. Shared links with pictures of Obama’s back – ‘I’ve got his back’ as the tagline. Basically, Macdonalds is food for people who don’t pay attention to the contents, and Obama is the President for people who don’t pay attention to politics.

    I’ve no idea who Mr President Iconography really is, but he’s not who his supporters want him to be. He never will be, never was.

  88. Did anyone notice or are my eyes blind?

    Hold on a moment, where is secretary Hillary Clinton? We know she is not running for a second term, yet why is she not congratulating President-Elect Obama after the call or after his acceptance speech.

    Must we conclude a rift twix friends and never the twain shall meet on foreign policy?

    I think so – LEAVE SYRIA and IRAN alone!

  89. @Mark Golding

    Good observation. According to reports, she is stepping down as SoS to retreat to private life – total bullshit, of course. Hillary’s ambitions are very much tied up with ol’ Bill’s, and he wants another two terms as president – thru her.

    I think that the Clinton’s need to get out of public view for a while and work behind the scenes to secure Democrat nomination for the next election. Four years will be needed to get the money together and the time will help erase some history so she can reinvent herself as a fresh candidate. (*vomit*)

    http://p.washingtontimes.com/news/2012/nov/7/obama-win-doesnt-change-clinton-plans-step-down/

  90. alan campbell

    8 Nov, 2012 - 4:01 am

    Obama is certainly not in the same class as Alex Salmond.

  91. I feel your pain at seeing all these “free and fair” elections in countries where it is permitted to express different viewpoints without fear for your life. Weren’t you the joker who was linking to Russia Today so as to receive undistorted eulogies on your comrades in North Korea?

    Some of us actually prefer our irrational democracies to your rationality.

    That’s the problem, you think that having ‘free and fair’ elections (US 2000 and 2004? UK postal vote rigging in the 90s and 00s?) between two parties funded and controlled by the same group of people is somehow better than a one-party state with no elections, or show elections. People in Russia speak out against their government every day without ‘fear for their life’. Regarding RT, it provides a much needed counter balance to the Western media’s monotone view on everything – i.e. the West is good and the East is bad.

    Re: Syria. Who’s being more rational (and moral), the Russian’s Lavrov or the West’s Clinton and Hague?

  92. Yes, I’m the wren, Mary. Very common in Irish and Celtic folklore.

    Ubiquitous. Loud and irritatingly monotonous song. Mmm.

  93. O/T, but not very far, cause bollox Obomber stole the BBC’s attention. One of three letters to the EDP today, after the BBC’s hysteria over their US election brief, so much more legitimate than our PCC election, as it looks like, has died down.

    It is from the totally discouraged and fed up ex agent to Chloe Smith, Margaret Eastham.

    Dear Sir

    I ready today’s information on the Conservative PCC candidate and I am very concerned. There is a gaping hole in this information which I feel that people of Norfolk have a right to know about. Colonel Athill says this is alluded to on something called LinkedIn (whatever that might be) but it is not on his website and it was not mentioned in the EDP today.

    At the beginning of this year Colonel Athill took up the post of British Territorial Director of an official body of the Czech Republic licenced by their Ministry of Trade. This body called the Czech Middle Asian Chamber of Commerce promotes trade with Russia, the Ukraine, Belarus, Kazakhastan, Afghanistan Pakistan Libya and Iraq with Colonel Athill in Great Britain. These are the only countries they promote trade with and they are all failed war-torn areas each with their own horrendous human rights records, details of which are readily available on the worthy website Human Rights Watch. And we dont have to look further than our own newspaper every week for news of Afghanistan.

    I quote Colonel Athill verbatim from an email to a concerned member of the public as saying his special role with this body is to “facilitate trade by British firms through the Czech Republic to new markets”. All goods from this country that can be exported to these dictatorships openly (if they are not under sanctions which they often are) can be done so through an export licence granted by the British Government. I will leave it to the imagination of the people of Norfolk what sort of goods need to be sent under cover through the Czech Republic to the failed states on their client list. Colonel Athill tries to brush his role with this Czech Government outfit to one side by saying that he is not being paid for being a director. That is irrelevant and we all know it. However as a Director of a Foreign Political Entity I am not sure he is entitled to stand as Police Commissioner in any event.

    I find it beyond disgraceful that the Conservative Party in Norfolk has given us this candidate without being fully open and transparent. I could never vote for someone with this background. It is distasteful and does not rest lightly with my conscience. It is not enough for Colonel Athill to say that he would consider resigning as the British Director of a Czech Government go-between if he is made Police Commissioner. He has those contacts and they will not cease being known by him and it is impossible not to feel uneasy. So for the first time in my adult life I shall not be voting Conservative. I have written to the person I have been most impressed with in his promises to us, especially his refusal to sign up political chums for the post of second in command. Mr Morphew assures me he has never tried to promote trade with war torn dictatorships in Central Asia so I shall vote for him.

Powered By Wordpress | Designed By Ridgey | Produced by Tim Ireland | Hosted In The Cloud