The Palestinian Genocide Continues

by craig on November 21, 2012 9:13 am in Uncategorized

Strangely, even the sight on television of the body of a small boy, the same age as Cameron, being dug by hand from the bomb rubble, is not what has stayed with me strongest from the latest attack on the Palestinians. Instead, I recall most vividly a radio broadcast on the BBC World Service two days before the attack on Gaza began.

It was a banal, everyday story of Palestinian villagers being evicted from their land in the occupied West Bank, to make way for an Israeli “military zone”. These pastoralists had lost a thousand hectares to the Israelis in the last few years, and now these ancient villages were being finally, forcibly, evacuated in a vicious act of ethnic cleansing. The shepherds claimed that what this was really about, was the precious springs that watered their livestock. Work was already starting to divert their water to nearby, and illegal, burgeoning Israeli settlements.

The BBC World Service TV has this minute, at 9.00am GMT, started its news broadcast as usual from Ashkelon in Israel, highlighting rocket attacks on Israel. There is no mention on the BBC – there has never been any mention on the BBC, or anywhere in the Western mainstream media – that for at least 4,000 years Ashkelon was an Arab town, until in 1948 the entire, Arab population of 12,000 was driven out by armed force, many being massacred. Doubtless some older inhabitants of Gaza are refugees whose home is Ashkelon.

Israel is exercising its right of self-defence in precisely the same sense that Hitler was exercising the right of self-defence in Normandy in 1944 – ie not at all. Why the world puts up with this blatant ethnic cleansing and prolonged, agonizing genocide of the Palestinain people, I have no idea. It is not just about bombs and rockets and deaths now. It is about the shepherds being pushed out of their village in 2012 as part of the same process of the massacre of Ashkelon in 1948, all a process of genocide of the Palestinians in which Obama, Clinton, Cameron and Hague, as two wholw generations of western politicians before them, are actively complicit.

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  1. Goebbels would have been proud at the propaganda being spewed out by our media and politicians in support of the Israeli ’cause’.

  2. “Why the world puts up with this blatant ethnic cleansing and prolonged, agonizing genocide of the Palestinain people, I have no idea.”

    People can only respond to what they see and hear and feel etc. The prime function of MSM is to ensure that the agressor is portrayed as wearily responding to attack, and when this becomes untenable and unbelieveable they retreat to a position where both sides are portrayed as bad as one another. They further ensure that there’s little context upon which to contruct a moral position.

    Propaganda, in short.

    Why media do this is another matter. It would also mean that media are complicit in the slaughter.

    Gilad Atzmon explains all in his recent book “The Wandering Who”.

  3. And who where the last occupiers (or their allies) to give a fuck about the indigenous?
    I reckon it’s Alexander the Great.

  4. Big areas of Haifa and Jaffa were ‘cleared’ by the Zionist terror army too. Much of Tel Aviv stands on such land.

    No person who upholds humanity can support a two-state solution.

    Are you sure you have “no idea” why ‘the world’ puts up with Zionist terror? A culture of vicious racism and the establishment and use of what Jenny Tonge calls “financial grips” have got something to do with it.

    That’s unless someone can come up with some other reason, which I suppose might be easy and ‘natural’ for those who have minds like goldfish and focus minute by minute on who said what on the telly.

    Even in 1948, the leaderships of the US, the UK, and the USSR were utterly acquiescent. It’s often said that this was because they didn’t want to look bad, in view of the mass slaughter that had recently been carried about by German Nazis. This is utter nonsense.

    Many phrases are in widespread use which in the way they are used are lies. For example, ‘settlement’. Why the fuck doesn’t the western media ever call a kibbutz a settlement? Or publish any article calling the kibbutz the racist institution that it is? Or ‘occupied territories’. What about the territories occupied in 1948?

    It is Hamas who speak the language of truth in this connection, referring to the ’48’ OTs and the ’67’ OTs.

  5. Glad you are well again, Mr Murray.

    “there has never been any mention on the BBC, or anywhere in the Western mainstream media – that for at least 4,000 years Ashkelon was an Arab town, until in 1948 the entire, Arab population of 12,000 was driven out by armed force, many being massacred.”

    The truth is not funny even though there is an internet joke that the Israelis are just taking back the land the Palestinians stole from them before they arrived!

  6. ‘they’ being the Israelis of course.

  7. A Casual Observer

    21 Nov, 2012 - 9:58 am

    Last night I switch on BBC iPlayer and promoted at number one to watch is:

    “The dark charisma Adolf Hitler”

    Why is it when Israel begin a fresh bout of ethnic cleansing do the BBC repeatedly ram the Holocaust down our throats? Is this coincidence?

    Maybe next time “The Nazis: A Warning from History” is repeated we could all take note and draw parallels where they are due instead of adopting the narrative of Israeli criticism = Antisemitism.

    What was it that Oscar Wilde once said… “patriotism is the virtue of the vicious”; forever true whichever way you turn it!

    History is full of cruel and tragic ironies but history is also happening now. Fresh documentaries need to be made on how one peoples struggle and persecution has given birth to anothers.

  8. I don’t think it is coincidence. Around the time of the Gaza massacre of 4 years ago, bus shelters in Britain were covered with big posters advertising the film Defiance.

  9. Ban Ki-moon press conference in Ramallah a few minutes ago with Abbas wasn’t even carried live by Al Jazeera. Had to watch it on Press TV. In contrast, all the networks covered his meeting with Nastyahu last night.

  10. Bomb blast on a bus in Tel Aviv just being reported.

  11. Interesting that as soon as Shillary appears on the scene, the truce flies out of the window. Harry Fear, now on RT, said this morning that it was the worse night of the seven day attach so far and that journalists and reporters are being targeted more than before. The truth must not get out, must it Mr Netanyahu?

    This morning, live from Gaza, Donnison was saying the same about last night’s ‘pounding’ (the BBC phrase) by Israel being the worst so far, the sound of a rocket going off was heard in the background. ‘That will be a rocket heading towards Israel’ he says. ‘The sirens there will be going off’. Seamlessly the cameras switched to Ben Brown in Ashkelon where the sirens were indeed going off. ‘I have to go now’ says Brown. ‘It is very dangerous standing here out in the open. I am going to the shelter’, as he hastened away.

    If that wasn’t all planned, I will eat my kippah!

    btw Shillary should be told that a pony tail is not a good look for a woman of her age. The Croydon facelift is the purpose of course. And she is piling on the lbs. What an awful specimen of womanhood.

  12. And the Drop the Dead Donkey award for most obviously staged news report must go to the BBC’s Ben Brown.

    I think the crouching low and looking nervously over the shoulder deserves the award all on it’s own, getting a sound man to run across the corner of the shot was a stroke of genius. That hint of verging on nervous breakdown tremor in the voice must have taken days to perfect.

    The reporters over in Gaza, where the media are being deliberately targeted by Israel, have a lot to learn about the art of bullshitting if they hope to stand a chance in next year’s awards, they just walk around looking casual as if nothing was happening.

  13. What an amazing nerve Abbas has, to meet Netanyahu at this time, when the legitimate Palestinian government, based in the territory undergoing the blitz, is not doing so. But when has he ever been anything other than a quisling?

  14. I do wish they wouldn’t target buses. If there is one place you can be sure to only harm the powerless, it is a bus.

  15. Oops, sorry, I misread your post, Anon. I thought you meant Abbas, not Ban Ki-Moon.

  16. BBC propaganda management.

    A whole page ostensibly about a footballer, but actually about rockets from Gaza.

    A bomb has just exploded in a bus in Tel Aviv, injuring 10 people. Micky Rosenfeld comes on to the BBC to report. He is from the Israeli police force and is used by the Israeli Ministry of Information to report on such events just as Ms Leibovich reports in to the media here on military ops.

    Timing of this? False flag likely??

    Death toll in Gaza – now 138 Injured – unknown


    Avital Leibovich ‏@AvitalLeibovich

    A bus explodes under my Tel Aviv office. Possibly due to a bomb or suicide bomber. Hearing the sirens of the ambulances.

    Explodes right under the IDF office. Hmm. Initial pictures of bus don’t seem to show much damage – just a lot of smoke.

  18. How do you have en explosion on a bus where all the windows remain intact? Or at least that’s what it looks like from initial pictures.

  19. The bleeding obvious is again offered to William. Maybe he’ll stop the self-righteous bellowing long enough to read it, but there is little hope of that…

    Underlying this confrontation, of course, is the clear evidence that this Israeli government has no intention of negotiating peace along the internationally accepted lines. Not only has it refused in principle to cease settlement expansion, but it has undertaken several specific actions that are clear markers of its intentions to keep large parts of the West Bank and East Jerusalem., all of which are known to your staff in the FCO. The most directly relevant is its refusal to submit negotiating proposals to the Quartet a year ago. It continues to maintain its siege of Gaza which imprisons the population and prevents all economic development, creating a pressure cooker environment which is ideal for recruitment to the militant factions.

    None of this has been lost on Hamas or the other Palestinian groups. It is not surprising that they resort to mounting attacks as part of resisting Israeli expansionism, and that leads to Israeli repression, which leads to the cycle of violence. The time has surely come to stop blaming Hamas and to place the responsibility squarely on Israeli expansionism where it belongs. Until Israel is held to account for its actions, it is hard to see how the cycle of violence will end.

    (my emphasis -K)

  20. Ok, See some damage now. Being reported that explosion may have been outside bus.

  21. Looks like the bus was right outside the Kirya military base at the time.

  22. Strangely, coincidentally or whatever, the bus that was bombed in Tavistock Square on 7/7 carried this advert:

    ‘The bus displays the well-known advert for the horror-movie ‘The Descent,’ which opened on July 8th (!). The film’s promoters (Wikipedia tells us) had to quickly alter the adverts, because: ‘ ”people were still trapped underground in reality, so no one really wanted to go see a film about people trapped underground…” Yes, indeed, it was ‘Outright terror, bold and brilliant,‘ just as the advert stated.

  23. It seems that Israeli propaganda follows the advice in the bible:
    2 Samuel 1:20
    “Tell it not in Gath, publish it not in the streets of Askelon; lest the daughters of the Philistines rejoice, lest the daughters of the uncircumcised triumph.”

  24. Another report that this was not a suicide bomber. Unclear whether package left on bus or detonated just outside. Whatever exploded it certainly wasn’t your typical bus explosion.

    I can remember berry picking buses with fewer intact windows.

  25. Norman Finklestein says, “the Israel army is the most cowardly army on earth”, much to the annoyance of a very fat American bloke.

  26. Hamas now claiming responsibility according to some reports. Not a wise move really.

  27. By the way, it’s well worth reading The Guardian’s Live Blog on the ‘crisis’. It really is amazing how obvious their pro-Israeli bias has become, to the extent that it isn’t even remotely hidden. Oh, at some point a few days down the line a few articles will appear talking about the blockade, but it’s too late then isn’t it? The intial impact is what counts.

    The MSM is simply not worth reading anymore, other than to laugh at, and mock. It’s basically an insult to our intelligence. I’m no rocket-scientist, but I really don’t appreciate lies, psy-ops and propaganda masquerading as ‘objective reporting’. I get kinda insulted, really. As in, who are these people to manipulate public opinion is such a blatant manner? What did they ever do, but go to Oxbridge? Nothing, really.

  28. Media bias? Here’s an instructive example.
    A few years ago I signed up to the Washington Post’s emailed news alerts. I can’t really remember why.
    Anyway, precisely nine minutes ago I got one of those alerts informing me that 10 Israelis had been injured in a bus explosion in Tel Aviv. Not once during the previous week has the Post alerted me about the deaths of any of the 136 (and counting) Palestinians. This includes the deaths of some 25 children.
    Civilian casualties are a terrible thing. But it seems that for “our” media only one side matters.

  29. Oh, nearly forgot: welcome back Craig.

  30. Suggestion regarding the demonstration in London on Saturday; for anyone wanting to meet up before proceeding to Downing Street, the previous thread would be a good place to make arrangements.

  31. Craig, I’m not sure how the term ‘self-defence’ is defined in international-legalese, but I have heard it said that any occupier who continues to maintain an occupation in contradiction of international law cannot lay claim to the rationale of self-defence for any retaliatory actions against those being occupied. Is this the case?

  32. That said, Brendan, Seumas Milne has written a good piece for today’s print Guardian, with some of the points Israel would rather were not published –

    CiFWatch (a subsidiary of BICOM) are apoplectic about it. Well done, Seumas. Keep it up.

  33. Am I hearing right? Claims that one or two people (one said to be female) got on bus, left package and got off again right outside a military base? Suspects not apprehended as of latest news.

  34. Was listening to some official Zionist stooge doing ‘earnest’ nearly as well as Alan Partridge last night. All Israel wanted, he said, was peace.

    Yeah. That’s what he said. Let’s deconstruct that a little:

  35. From Haaretz today:

    Activists from the Coalition Against Racism in Israel demanded Tuesday that Upper Nazareth Mayor Shimon Gafsou be “indicted for racist statements” after he sent a letter to Interior Minister Eli Yishai claiming that Nazareth is full of “Israel-hating residents whose place is in Gaza and not here.”

  36. Hamas denies claiming responsibility. There were unofficial claims in Gaza but it seems that Hamas has not (as of now anyway) officially claimed responsibility despite reports saying they have. They have supported the action though but not claimed responsibility.

  37. Oh, hell.

    Looks like Fatah is getting sick of just watching in horror.

  38. ….that ol’ divide-and-conquer thing doesn’t work so well if you’re pissing on ALL the divided, does it?

  39. Massive sequence of explosions in Gaza right now.

  40. Last Saturday the BBC’s “Any Answers” ‘phone-in had a line of people queuing to congratulate/ defend Israeli action, all sounded British. It was the usual thing, “If Israel lays down its weapons, there would be no Israel the next day. If Hamas lays down its weapons, there would be peace the next day” etc. etc. – surprised the old “pushed into the sea” cannard never got aired. But a lone voice did speak for Palestine, a woman speaking out the incursions, occupation, settlements and so on. She got a couple of points across, but was pretty drowned out in the pro-Israeli calls.

    I find it very hard to believe this sample is representative of British public opinion.

    Then again, the BBC led for a couple of days with the solemn announcement that a third person has now been killed in Israel, spoken with a gravity usually reserved for the death of an ancient Royal. No mention of the vastly greater number killed on the less defended side.

  41. “Israel is exercising its right of self-defence in precisely the same sense that Hitler was exercising the right of self-defence in Normandy in 1944 – ie not at all”.

    Sorry, Craig – although I really don’t think the Israelis are nearly as evil as the Nazis were, I think there’s a flaw in your analogy.

    Surely France declared war on Germany in 1939 – not the other way round? And I don’t think France could claim any real provocation. How could the German invasion of Poland – on its opposite flank from France – seriously injure France’s interests? (By that logic many nations should have declared war on the USA in the last 50 years!)

    Having started the war, France then lost it fair and square. Its armies were defeated, its territory was overrun, and its government surrendered. No ifs or buts – France declared war on Germany, was completely defeated, and surrendered. I’m not sure what international law says about the occupation of a country under those circumstances, but if the occupation was illegal then surely so was that of Germany, Italy and Japan by the Allies after 1945.

    So I would argue that Hitler’s legal position was substantially stronger than that of the Israelis.

  42. I think we have to start firmly and consistently pinning the label of “appeasers” of psychopathic genocide on the leaders of the Western world who are refusing to condemn Israel’s massacres in Gaza.

    This not a war. It is a one-sided massacre.

    The Palestinians have no army, navy, air-force, no air defence system, no air-raid shelters and they have no heavy weapons–just small arms. They are surrounded on all sides by Israel’s state of the art, high-tech armed forces and navy courtesy of the USA.

    Yet, the Israelis yesterday dropped leaflets on Gaza cynically calling upon them to “evacuate” knowing full well that there was nowhere for them to go.

  43. Now Hague is saying that ‘Terrorists must not be allowed to set the agenda’

    Surely the terrorists have been allowed to set the agenda since at least 1948, with the support of the like of Hague, or am I missing something here?

    He’s also apparently “concerned at emerging reports of a bomb attack on a bus in Tel Aviv”

    He doesn’t show such concern when it’s Palestinian chidren being blown to bit by his friends.

    Surely the craven hypocrisy of this man is apparent to even the dimmest of humanity.

  44. Jews sans frontiers blog has this ironic post exposing the train of “logic” of the good “hasbara” (propagandist for Israel): “How apologize for Israel like a pro”.

  45. This is a good account of what happened to this village and its occupants during the period of the Mandate and then again in Al Naqba.



  46. How fitting, all these explosions and suspicious people not being apprehended, before the 1’oclock news.
    I do not think the first explosion was from Hamas, why such a small package designed to injure and not kill?

    We have to wait what the second explosion is all about but this looks like the masters of false flagging are at it again, since when did they ever care about innocent bystanders if they can fool the International community that this is the last drop that fills the barrel, look at us poor mites taking all this stick from those terrorists.

    What’s Harry making of all this?

  47. I think you have a good point, A Casual Observer.

    “Why is it when Israel begin a fresh bout of ethnic cleansing do the BBC repeatedly ram the Holocaust down our throats? Is this coincidence?”

    The points of similarity between Israel and Nazi Germany are many and glaringly obvious. Apparently someone decided that “if you can’t beat ‘em, join ‘em”. Apart from the fact that most of the Nazis’ most horrible policies came straight out of the Old Testament, we can immediately cite

    1. Belief in a single Master Race destined to rule the world. (Including belief in the outdated and discredited notion that there are distinct human “races”).
    2. Belief that all other human beings are only slightly, if at all, more dignified than animals; both animals and foreigners (non-Aryans or gentiles respectively) existing purely to help make life more comfortable for the Master Race.
    3. Desire for the Master Race to procreate rapidly, thus filling up the earth. What about the other races? What about the other races indeed? They can be displaced into arid desert regions, where with any luck most of them will die of “natural causes” (starvation, thirst, exposure, disease, etc.) If too many survive, measures can be taken…
    4. Willingness, verging on eagerness, to use extreme violence. After all, forgiveness and tolerance are signs of weakness, which the Master Race cannot afford. Utter ruthlessness becomes a virtue when dealing with Untermenschen (sorry, gentiles).
    5. Great sophistication in the use of applied violence. Cultivation of techniques such as control of the air, commando tactics, and Blitzkrieg (sorry, “Shock and Awe”).
    6. Determination to demonstrate that one member of the Master Race is worth more than hundreds or thousands of subhumans. So, when a MMR is killed by an SH, reprisals involve the killing of scores, hundreds, or thousands of SHs.
    7. Mastery of propaganda. (See the writings of Hitler, Goebbels, etc., passim). Particularly the Big Lie: “The great masses of the people in the very bottom of their hearts tend to be corrupted rather than consciously and purposely evil … therefore, in view of the primitive simplicity of their minds, they more easily fall a victim to a big lie than to a little one, since they themselves lie in little things, but would be ashamed of lies that were too big”.
    8. Self-conscious pride in Culture, which helps to prove how superior the MR is to the SHs.
    Adding further points to this indictment, a fairly easy task, is left as an exercise to the student. It should, however, be noted that the above beliefs are by no means exclusive to Israelis or even Jews. Most contemporary Americans, for instance, seem to feel that – even if they have been reluctantly compelled to accept black Americans as equals – brown Asians (especially if Muslim) are far less important than themselves.

  48. Israelis didn’t seem interested in forensics from that bus from the pictures. Bus was also driven away from scene under its own power within an hour or so of the blast

  49. Are these explosion false flag ops to give Netanyahu the pretext to extend the attacks on Gaza? I think we should be told. It stinks.

  50. This was written a day or so ago when the death toll in Gaza stood at 100.

    Nevertheless, it makes a good analysis of Israel’s game plan.

    [..]Indeed, with the sectarian attacks taking place in Syria spilling over into Lebanon, Hezbollah itself is similarly in little position to lend the type of support to Gaza that it did in 2006, for example, by opening a second front in response to Israeli shelling of Palestinians. Stratfor again: “Hezbollah will likely be extremely cautious in deciding whether to participate in this war. The group’s fate is linked to that of the embattled regime of Syrian President Bashar al Assad; should Syria fracture along sectarian lines, Lebanon is likely to descend into civil war, and Hezbollah will have to conserve its strength and resources for a battle at home against its sectarian rivals.”

    If Syria does fall, therefore, we can expect to see far more Israeli massacres of the type now currently under way. Not only will Syria be knocked out of the ‘resistance axis’ altogether, and Hezbollah left without a supply line from Iran, but Iran itself will be left isolated and less able to provide the Gazans with the missiles that currently provide their only effective deterrent to a renewed Israeli occupation.

    This goes some way to explaining why the Israelis have been so supportive of the Syrian rebels, with Peres and Barak both throwing their weight behind the militias. Syria’s support for Hezbollah, and the link it provides to Iran, has been a key obstacle to Israel’s ability to attack the Palestinians with impunity, and therefore to its ability to unilaterally impose a final settlement on Palestine. For now, the main obstacle to Israeli diktat remains the Fajr-5.

  51. “The dark charisma Adolf Hitler”

    I also saw this, and was puzzled. The programme was almost entirely content free – simply stock footage of the nazis with a highly loaded commentary on what we should think of them. It had ludicrous graphics, and a sound track of barbarically edited classical music (three bars of this, four of that, cacophonous throughout). It came across like a longer version of Orwell’s Two Minute Hate. What on earth was it for?

  52. Ronaldo donates 1.5 million € to the children of Gaza ! A great gesture from a great player. I hope other celebrities join him in what amounts to a protest to the slaughter and destruction taking place.
    Comparing the IDF to the German army does not really ring true.The Germans fought against armies. The IDF pick on the defenceless and have been doing the same since 1947 and before that in the 30’s when they were known as Irgun and Hagannah.The children of those Terrorists are now running Israel, and calling the ethnically cleansed the terrorist.
    Our media is pathetic and just like our Foreign Minister (Little Willie)and the British Ambassador to Israel are part of the Zionist mouthpiece.The anti semites are the Zionists.

  53. exactly venceremos, this will be used as the final incitement to re-occupy Gaza.

    Agree with Tom Welsh and casual Observer, the set up was planned for month ahead so it seems, and all the trailers were working up to some dark and dank mood before it even went out. Full spectrum media dominance over the tricks department, but only us who sit outside their bubble can see this, the vast majority of apolitical apathetic non voters and the average 9-5 Joe Bloogs does not understand the nuances of this contrite news management.

    All those who ever wanted to scratch my eyes out/have a pint in mutual solace, this Sat. will be your chance if Phil comes up with a venue suggestion. would love to meet you all, but do recognise that many of you live in Scotland.

    Sorry Suhayl, no London tea for you, unless….

  54. Nevermind,

    IDF bombed very close to Harry as he was interviewing an injured cameraman for RT about an hour ago. Harry commented that “Israel has shot itself in the foot as never before have Palestinians been more united against them.”

  55. For the record, the Middle East debate yesterday in the HoC. Hours of waffle from Hague, and the following page.

    12.35pm onwards until 2.10pm

    plus a point of order from Halfon who like many others in the debate forgot to mention his allegiance to Israel.

    Robert Halfon (Harlow) (Con): On a point of order, Mr Speaker. For the avoidance of doubt, when I asked the Foreign Secretary my question I should have referred Members to my entry in the Register of Members’ Financial Interests.

    Mr Speaker: I am grateful to the hon. Gentleman for putting that on the record.

  56. Was a time I was ashamed to be the same nationality as William Hague, nowadays I’m ashamed to be the same species. How the hell did a boverboy get to be Foreign Secretary anyway? How did someone who lost an overwhelming vote of no confidence in his ability to run the country from the people of Britain in 2001 get to be deciding foreign policy?

    Don’t suppose him joining Conservative Friends of Israel when he was 15 has harmed his career prospects any.

  57. If you give, as America and her satraps have, a blank cheque to Israel, sooner or later a psycho will get to play with drones. Netanyahu has created more ‘terrorists’ than OBL could have hoped for.

  58. “Why the world puts up with this blatant ethnic cleansing and prolonged, agonizing genocide of the Palestinain people, I have no idea.”

    Two words: Suez Canal. You think the ghost of Abdel Nasser isn’t haunting a lot of people right now?

  59. Guess what the Western media news will lead on this evening and tomorrow? (Hint. It won’t be dead children in Gaza).

    Never forget that Zionism was a terrorist movement during the British mandate. The King David Hotel in Jerusalem–British HQ–was blown up by their militia. The present Israeli government has its roots in that movement. And they are not above bombing their own kind on a bus if it gives them the pretext to slaughter more defenceless Palestinians Gaza.

  60. Just spotted Jack Straw *makes sign of cross* questioning Hague’s infuriatingly mendacious ramble on the subject of Israel (we don’t support the terrorists) and Syria (we do support the terrorists)….

    Straw: Given that the experience of the past decade or more is that Israel pockets any concession made by the west to accommodate its position and then not only does nothing but makes the situation worse—by illegal settlement building, for example—will the Foreign Secretary please reconsider his position on the British Government’s refusal to vote for the United Nations General Assembly resolution? He is a man of great fluency, and he normally convinces the House with his arguments, but I find his reason for that refusal utterly incomprehensible. It is not that I disagree with it; I simply do not understand why our voting for the resolution would make the situation worse. Surely it would make it much better.

    B (FP) Hague: (translation) We’re sitting on our hands until the US gives us permission to vote against it.

  61. watching the parliament debate gaza situation was quite laughable,

    “israel is using advanced technology to carry out precision point laser guided attacks, the wicked Palestinians are firing haphazardly and sometimes killing innocent zionists”

    the people you are attacking are about 50 years behind you technologically

  62. Stop the slaughter, stop the crime, Free, Free, Palestine!

    Wish Craig was around to make one of his rousing speeches. Glad he is better. I did not realize that he was in Ghana when he became ill and that he was still there.

    PS Bus top billing BBC 1 News at One of course.

  63. There is a battle raging in cyberspace too since Israel threatened to shut down the internet in Gaza. Israel is losing that one big time.

  64. The BBC’s herald to war in Iraq, Afghanistan, Libya, etc etc, in fact anywhere where white skinned people are killing brown skinned ones, is now in Gaza City. I mean the pugnacious Wyre Davies. Hope he has a thick flak jacket. He definitely gets turned on by war.

  65. Nevermind, Not just Scotland — but the north of Scotland for me! Good luck on Saturday to one and all. If you ever want to climb a Munro, give me a shout…

  66. This is pertinent:

    “As a general rule for understanding public policies, I insist that there are no persistent “failed” policies. Policies that do not achieve their desired outcomes for the actual powers-that-be are quickly changed. If you want to know why the U.S. policies have been what they have been for the past sixty years, you need only comply with that invaluable rule of inquiry in politics: follow the money.

    “When you do so, I believe you will find U.S. policies in the Middle East to have been wildly successful, so successful that the gains they have produced for the movers and shakers in the petrochemical, financial, and weapons industries (which is approximately to say, for those who have the greatest influence in determining U.S. foreign policies) must surely be counted in the hundreds of billions of dollars.

    “So U.S. soldiers get killed, so Palestinians get insulted, robbed, and confined to a set of squalid concentration areas, so the “peace process” never gets far from square one, etc., etc. – none of this makes the policies failures; these things are all surface froth, costs not borne by the policy makers themselves but by the cannon-fodder masses, the bovine taxpayers at large, and foreigners who count for nothing”.

    – Robert Higgs (quoted by Arthur Silber in his blog “Once Upon a Time”)

  67. Hope sight of Esler won’t set Craig’s recovery back!

    Lessons fromn the Top
    The most successful leaders educate, persuade and bring about change through the stories they tell, but we rarely have the background knowledge to explore how they do so.

    Watch award-winning television and radio presenter Gavin Esler as he shares the leadership secrets he’s gleaned from thirty years interviewing the world’s greatest frontrunners.!!

    Pure self aggrandisement. He thinks some of the fairy dust rubs off on to him.

  68. Just a moment there, Tom Welsh. Higgs is a guru of the Austrian School of economics. He supports an unrestrained market without reserve, and is wholeheartedly opposed to “The State”. He has a following among those members of the Tea Party who can read without moving their lips, few as they may be. Given that market forces have determined US foreign policy, according to the quotation, I’m inclined to think that the last paragraph is not intended ironically or sarcastically. Which rather changes the message of hope it seems to offer.

  69. I still don’t see people seeing that this is just a convenient way for Israel to regain the agenda initiative against Iran after it failed to unseat Obama because he wasn’t doing enough for Tel Aviv.

    With the asssassination of the Hamas military leader, Israel kicked off a campaign which the newly re-elected President had no alternative but to support unless he was willing to go after the traitors, headed by disgraced DCI General David Petraeus and his surrogate Paula Broadwell, who worked behind his back to unseat him.

    Now it is just a case of the tail wagging the dog big time, and the poor Palestinians are just convenient cannon fodder.

    This is just institutionalized war crimes that Hitler’s people could never get the necessary support, cowardice and excuses for.

  70. I want Israel abolished as much as the next anti-racist but was Ashkelon really Arab four thousand years ago? I thought the arabisation of the middle east came much later. I only ask because the truth matters. Apart from that possible error, I agree with what’s being said here.

  71. I’ve put this question on the Office of Tony Blair website (thanks, Mary, for the idea):

    Could you please tell me how many times since March 2009, in the course of his activities as Quartet envoy, Tony has visited
    (a) Gaza
    (b) The Occupied West Bank
    (c) Israel proper?

    I’d also be interested in any visits to any of these that were NOT conducted under the aegis of the Quartet.

    With thanks in anticipation,

  72. Depends what you mean by Arabs, Levi. If “people from the Arabian peninsula”, then no. If “non-Jewish Semitic people with descendants in the area today” (Israel’s loose current working definition of people who can be safely humiliated), then, yes. Canaanites with a fair degree of civilisation, indeed.

  73. Levi9909

    Who do you think the “Philistines” who built ancient Ashkalon were? (Genuine question, but difficult to imagine any genuine unbiased archaeological research on the subject in that part of the world).

  74. Israeli Deputy Prime Minister Shalom’s social media hacked and defaced.

  75. Follow the money and ask yourself why Mr. Obama is sooo supportive of Israeli current actions.

  76. Someone was asking earlier about the legal status of Gaza:

    …Israel continues to exercise “effective control”, a legal designation with implications. As the Goldstone Report (paragraph 187) makes clear (supporting the conclusion of the 2003 ICJ decision), “in addition to controlling the borders, coastline and airspace… Israel continued to control Gaza’s telecommunications, water, electricity and sewage networks, as well as the population registry, and the flow of people and goods into and out of the territory while the inhabitants of Gaza continued to rely on the Israeli currency.”

    To these facts can be added Israel’s continuing capacity and willingness to impose a siege on Gaza and to send in forces to arrest suspects, transfer them elsewhere, and put them on trial before the military courts that have been in operation since 1967.

    Why is it important to recognise that Gaza is still occupied by Israel? Because this legal status speaks to issues far broader than the current war in Gaza and the Israeli-Palestinian conflict. Put simply, an occupying state has no legal right to wage a full-scale military war against an occupied population. Rather, the occupying state is legally obligated to protect the rights and prioritise the interests of this population, something Israel has manifestly not done in any part of the Occupied Territories.

    (emphases mine – K)

  77. We have the beginnings of a meet-up before Saturday’s London demo. Anyone else who’d like to join in, please see here:

  78. Another chilling quote from the above:

    First, Israel tries to frame its policies as complying with international law in order to avoid accusations of war crimes. The success of this argument depends on its terminology, and the policies that flow from it, remaining unchallenged. Second, to the extent that state practice (especially the practices of powerful states) is the main means through which international law – especially the laws of war – evolve, the “Israeli model” of disregarding civilian immunity and using disproportionate force in the aggressive pursuit of security may attain influence and credibility beyond this conflict.
    Conflict places stress ‘specifically on children’ of Gaza

    According to former senior Israeli military lawyer Daniel Reisner, this situation is precisely the goal of Israeli legal reasoning, which seeks to achieve “a revision of international law… If you do something for long enough, the world will accept it… International law progresses through violations. We invented the targeted assassination thesis and we had to push it. At first there were protrusions that made it hard to insert easily into the legal moulds. Eight years later it is in the centre of the bounds of legitimacy.”

    Bet you made Momma proud when you graduated from law school, Danny.

  79. Bet there’s no market for their ‘solution’ in Gaza as Muslim burials take place before sundown on the day of death or as soon as possible thereafter.

  80. RE: “The dark charisma Adolf Hitler”

    I didn’t watch this but was surprised at the trailers. I thought the ‘it was all down to one evil fella’ propaganda was long relegated to the history channels.

    If the bbc really are repeatedly warming us into israeli military adventures with such rubbish (would be interesting to know) then we are truly well beyond Chomsky & Hermann’s propaganda model. That this current doc is currently promoted to no. 1 on iplayer is appalling.

  81. John Pilger speaks to Dennis Bernstein Dennis worked with Nora Barrows Friedman, who writes on Electronic Intifada, on the Flashpoints radio show on Pacific Radio.

    An Interview With John Pilger
    Israel’s Gaza Rampage: It’s Not Just War







    “November 20, 2012 For Immediate Release (202)225-5871

    Undermining Peace in Gaza and Israel in One Minute Flat

    How the House Defeated the Democratic Process “Unanimously”

    WASHINGTON, D.C. (November 20, 2012) – On November 16, 2012, the United States House of Representatives passed a resolution, H.Res 813, expressing “vigorous support” and “unwavering commitment” to the State of Israel while bombs were being dropped on Gaza and missiles were launched toward Ashkelon. The resolution expresses the official opinion of the House of Representative. The resolution was passed “without objection.”

    It is unusual that legislation addressing a topic of such importance would be brought up without giving members of Congress any prior notice. The bill was introduced at 12:04 pm. The resolution was “agreed without objection” by 12:05 pm.

    “There was no notice, no committee hearing, no discussion and no debate. In such a fashion, we achieve unanimity on great matters related to the Middle East,” said Kucinich.

    Concerning this abnormal set of circumstances and addressing the tragic violence in Israel and the Gaza Strip, Congressman Dennis Kucinich (D-OH) today released the following statement.

    “I object to H.Res.813, an unfortunately and unnecessarily one-sided resolution that was brought up on Friday, November 16th for consideration without any advance notice to members of Congress and which was completed in about a minute without any discussion. The hasty nature in which this resolution of such significance was considered undermines the unspoken, but operationally essential understanding, that bills of great importance will not be quietly tiptoed through Congress. A loss of Members’ confidence in Leadership results when House floor procedures are conducted in a manner frustrating to good faith. Such conduct can only add to the hyperpartisanship and the breakdown of comity in Congress that Americans find objectionable.

    “Members must be given the opportunity to debate U.S. support of a military operation that is likely to be of significant consequence in talks between Israel and the Palestinians. This impacts the region and the world.

    “Only one minute for consideration of a most consequential resolution in the House, when in the past week, the death toll in Gaza has climbed past 100, including 24 children. Over 800 people are reported to have been wounded. Rockets from groups in Gaza have landed in several Israeli towns. Three Israelis have been killed.

    “This latest military escalation began after Israel assassinated Ahmed Al-Jabari, the head of Hamas’ military wing. According to Israeli negotiator Gershon Baskin, who secured the release of Gilad Shalit, Mr. Jabari ‘wasn’t just interested in a long-term cease-fire; he was also the person responsible for enforcing previous cease-fire understandings…On the morning that he was killed, Mr. Jabari received a draft proposal for an extended cease-fire with Israel, including mechanisms that would verify intentions and ensure compliance.’ Could anything be more destructive of peace than the assassination of a principal to ceasefire negotiations? And the House only has one minute to consider the ramifications of such action?

    “The root of this latest flare up in hostilities is deep. Negotiations between Israel and the Palestinians on a two-state solution have been virtually non-existent. Innocent people in Gaza continue to suffer under a blockade that has deprived them of everything from food and clean water to educational opportunities. Illegal settlements continue to be built in the West Bank and East Jerusalem, further diminishing prospects for a negotiated two-state solution.

    “The hastily written, and even more hastily passed resolution, fails to mention any of that. In its deficiencies are writ the failures of our own Middle East policies. This latest outbreak in violence is deplorable and I am strongly supportive of Egyptian efforts to negotiate a ceasefire. Innocent people on both sides deserve to live without fear. Can the House Leadership spare a minute for that point to be made?”

    ### “

  83. It seems to me there are documentaries about Hitler and the Nazis on TV pretty well all the time. It is quite a staple of the airwaves and there seems to me nothing illegitimate about that. I do not think there is any evidence that there is more of such during Israeli military actions. I think that if you start speculating that “Inglourious Bastards” or “Schindler’s List” or “The Boy in the Striped Pajamas” are released to an IDF timetable, you are losing grip on reality.

  84. @Mary

    ‘This morning, live from Gaza, Donnison was saying the same about last night’s ‘pounding’ (the BBC phrase) by Israel being the worst so far, the sound of a rocket going off was heard in the background. ‘That will be a rocket heading towards Israel’ he says. ‘The sirens there will be going off’. Seamlessly the cameras switched to Ben Brown in Ashkelon where the sirens were indeed going off. ‘I have to go now’ says Brown. ‘It is very dangerous standing here out in the open. I am going to the shelter’, as he hastened away.

    If that wasn’t all planned, I will eat my kippah!’

    Yes, it is very reminiscent of this broadcast by CNN’s Charles Jaco during the Gulf War:

    The siren scene starts at about 3.20, and the entire thing is fake. Brown, like his imperial predecessors, is following in the venerable tradition of western propaganda.

  85. Gawain

    Now that orchestration I can believe

  86. “Just a moment there, Tom Welsh”.

    Sure, what can I do for you?

    “Higgs is a guru of the Austrian School of economics. He supports an unrestrained market without reserve, and is wholeheartedly opposed to “The State”.”

    True enough, but I can’t see what relevance any of that has to the passage I quoted.

    “He has a following among those members of the Tea Party who can read without moving their lips, few as they may be”.

    That may well be true, but it doesn’t necessarily imply anything at all about either Higgs or his ideas. Aren’t you sidling up to an indirect kind of ‘ad hominem’?

    “Given that market forces have determined US foreign policy, according to the quotation, I’m inclined to think that the last paragraph is not intended ironically or sarcastically. Which rather changes the message of hope it seems to offer”.

    I didn’t see any message of hope at all, and having carefully reread that paragraph I still don’t. All I really meant to do was convey the idea that the outcomes in the Near East, far from reflecting policy failure, were exactly what was intended all along. I had read the Higgs quote this morning, and couldn’t imagine phrasing the idea better myself. So I used Higgs’ words.

  87. Craig at 21 Nov, 3:18 pm: yes, TV has been awash with WWII stuff – films, documentaries, whatever – all my life. However, I disagree that there is “nothing illegitimate about that”. Nothing more illegitimate than usual, but it remains part of the never ending propaganda for war.

    Ditch your TV licenses. The broadcast licenses of the foreign companies that contradict the mainstream corporate agenda are being withdrawn in any case. Use the Internet where you have to choose what you watch, and where you can block the adverts that keep the whole thing going. Why should some big company decide what you should consider important, in any case?

  88. O/T Can somebody, Jon, or Clark, or somebody with technical expertise try to open this please and post its contents? It’s to do with the Julian Assange affair and says something about Billy McCormac commenting on the CIA (of which he might know more than is suspected) not being capable of something . . . Arbed, on the Anna Ardin liar blog post, cannot open it either. Thanks

  89. Ditch your satellite subscriptions, take down your aerials and dishes. Centralised media attracts propagandists like dead meat attracts flies. Every reduction in audience numbers hits them where it hurts; advertising and PR.

    If you are technical enough to change a fuse, learn about how to keep the Internet working and unfiltered. Learn why the DNS system is the weak point (it’s centrally administered), and that we can overcome this by sharing information. Learn why the Internet Service Providers now supply all wireless routers with wireless encryption pre-enabled (it keeps us isolated, vulnerable and make it easier to identify our traffic). Get a secure operating system that respects your freedom, and then switch off the “security” on your wireless connection and set it free!

    If you want a thing done properly, do it yourself!

    Too right!

  90. @ Tom
    True enough, but I can’t see what relevance any of that has to the passage I quoted.

    All becomes clear if you read to the end, as you then do, with annotations.

    That may well be true, but it doesn’t necessarily imply anything at all about either Higgs or his ideas. Aren’t you sidling up to an indirect kind of ‘ad hominem’?

    No. I’m pointing out as a matter of background that Higgs is in favour of an unrestrained market, and that he’s maybe not being sarcastic – as some might read him, and I did at first glance – but sincere. That IS his view of the proles.

    I didn’t see any message of hope at all, and having carefully reread that paragraph I still don’t.

    Sorry, I phrased that badly, in haste. I should have said ” the message of hope an optimist might take from a member of the Austrian School apparently being facetious about the activities of the market..”

    I trust that helps.

  91. A Casual Observer

    21 Nov, 2012 - 3:59 pm

    “I think that if you start speculating that “Inglourious Bastards” or “Schindler’s List” or “The Boy in the Striped Pajamas” are released to an IDF timetable, you are losing grip on reality.”

    But what about “Iron Sky”… that one looks a bit suspect to me – who with a sound grip on reality would fund such a film… there has to be a hollywood conspiracy!?


    Seriously though – it was just an observation, I’ve no idea how the BBC works with regards to their programming schedule and/or how flexible it is with how it relates to current events.

    They are not organised enough to have an ‘agenda’ but I’m not ruling out editorial or political bias among their members.

    I have, after all, watched what passes for their flagship ‘news’ program and drawn my own conclusions from that i.e. a licence fee funded balanced and critical documentary of the history of Israel and Palestine will never happen.

    If anyone has historical records of all BBC program scheduling then point me to it and I’ll run it through the old database to see if any hot-spots crop up – other than that it’s all just speculation.

  92. Regarding the timing of nazi documentaries in British TV and Israel operations, I do not think any conspirational explanation is necessary. There is ALWAYS some documentary of the sort being aired

  93. John Goss, if you inspect that URL, you’ll see that it is a Google address, followed by an address at Percent symbols are used to replace special characters, “2F” is a forward slash. The server for will respond with its home page, but when the rest of the URL is included, the server just leaves you waiting.

    I’ll try some other approaches…

  94. @Clark

    ‘Ditch your TV licenses. The broadcast licenses of the foreign companies that contradict the mainstream corporate agenda are being withdrawn in any case. Use the Internet where you have to choose what you watch, and where you can block the adverts that keep the whole thing going. Why should some big company decide what you should consider important, in any case?’

    I’d largely agree with this sentiment, but for different reasons. My major concern is that many modern media outlets are coming down with members of the intelligence establishment, and that such a relationship is specifically designed to distort the public consciousness as a whole. Check out a few examples of intelligence penetration into the media industry:

    Making things rather worse is the reality that our communications systems are becoming more and more centralised, both in the sense of corporate monopoly control and in the sense of possible state surveillance. The below chart clearly reflects the extent to which a once burgeoning media industry has now become a tool of the powerful:

    And given the recent work of the NSA and GCHQ in screening the communications of ordinary citizens, it is becoming increasingly clear that we must police our own discourse in an altogether more circumspect manner.

    One of the best sources on all of the above is Richard Keeble – a man who seems to have dedicated a great deal of time and effort in confronting the idea of spooks operating in the media. See the following for more information:

    All of which confirms to my mind that I must treat everything I hear when a certain degree of skepticism. The domain of public reason is most definitely under threat.


    Once upon a time people lived on a land in pastoral conditions with their brethren and sisters and neighbours. And amongst these people was a man who lived for his family, his wife, his children and loved them first then in his heart he loved next, the land which he farmed.
    One wretched day there was an arrival of others who expelled many of the people who had lived in peace, and the man had to leave with his family.
    The resentment grew in the hearts of the weak and vulnerable who had been expelled and were without their homes and homeland.
    As time went by, the occupiers established themselves and came to be recognised in the world as having a right to live upon the land up to a line in the sand. But the occupiers were not satisfied with that gain and invaded and built beyond that line in the sand.
    Alas, with the passage of more time the animosities grew and the weak sought to arm themselves against the strong. The epithet of violence spread became imprinted on the names of many across the land. Conflict and resistance grew, and as a tree grows braches and leave so too did conflict spring resistance.
    Some in the world sided with the strong against the weak; while others sided with the weak against the strong.
    There was conflict grief and strife all around. So the strong resolved to launch greater wars and show that might could defeat the weak.
    And so it came to pass: the belief was that a man could be killed and the weak would be pacified and subdued. At first the man’s brother was killed and more resentment grew in him. Then his wife was killed and the resentment grew all the more. Then one day all his children were killed and he resolved then that he would arm himself and fight. He had lost all that in this world he had desired, and so his death, his life, his aspirations merged as one. There was no longer any difference for the man between the light of day or the darkness of night. His life’s meaning now became a testament that in a noble death there would be greater meaning than in a recreant’s life.
    And so, as the days, the weeks, the months passed by, the strong continued to demonstrate their strength and the man lived his life with the only meaning now that he could find to fill his heart.
    Moral of the story: It is better to be a coward for a minute than be dead for the rest of your life; or – to sin by silence when they should protest makes cowards of men?

  96. John Goss, it was just taking too long to respond. I think I’ve got it, and I’ve placed a copy here, but it looks a bit dodgy (some characters displaying incorrectly):

  97. Sky’s Kay Burley to UK Israeli Amb.Taub “Does this mean a ground invasion is more likely?” referring to the bus.

    Taub to Burley …”Blah blah, spiel, spiel, …. We may have to consider a military intervention.” !!

    The irony was lost in his chutzpah.

    A Jewish American teacher writes:

    ‘It is time to stop being afraid to equate Israel with the Nazis. Are they even Jewish? Nowhere in the Talmud is it taught that when your home is destroyed it is your right to take another’s and put them out. Yet the ethnic cleansing of Palestine from pre-Israeli statehood to the present stands as a stark contrast to what it is to be Jewish. Targeting women and children, families, water towers and other forms of infrastructure, is sheer barbarism. The brute racism by Israel’s leading figures, as supported by opinion polls of its people, can only be compared with Grand Dragons and neo-Nazis.

    It is time for all people of conscience, especially Jews, to stand up and put a stop to the practices of such an insane country.’

  98. Thanks Clark. I managed to find it by pasting some of the text under the link in a chain. But as it is off topic I’ll paste it on the Anna Ardin liar blog. Thanks again.

  99. Good to hear that you are feeling better Craig.As to Israel’s latest murderous foulness of course the british brainwshers corp: serve it up as all Hamas’s fault,even though savile tainted boaden has been retired the new stooge is under the same dictat.Pilger’s article is as usual spot on but available on counterpunch not in our disgusting “free” press.The irony of Obomber burbling on re: states having the right to defend themselves from rocket strikes while doing just that to Yemen Pakistan Libya is nauseating but irony has never been a word understood in whitehall or washington. yesanyahoo is a sadistic fascist and I hope somehow the Palestinians can survive this genocidal onslaught. As to wee willie he is right down there with the bliar, that torturing genocidal thug,Warsaw yes but never forget Fallujah and check out what was done there.The pattern is clear if it makes money for the “right” people then torture or mass murder indeed any horror is permitted.We live in evil times.

  100. @Craig

    I’m glad you are feeling somewhat recovered. Your readers and supporters have missed you greatly.


  101. What struck me was that, watching the mainstream media I would conclude that Israel has every right to take this course of action and that most right-thinking people would support it.

    However, a quick search reveals hundreds of pro-Gazan demonstrations taking place around the world, while I could literally turn up nada for people marching to show their support of Israel.

    The only explanation I can come up with is, of course, totally unacceptable! That Jews and their associates do indeed control the world’s media, inasmuch as what is being reported appears to bear no relation to popular sentiment outside of a tiny fraction of the world’s population.

  102. Anyway, Jews may not in fact control the mainstream media, but, this week, at least, one would be *forgiven* for thinking so.

    In fact, it’s getting a little dangerous, the disconnect is so large that the propaganda may not really do it’s job this time around. The Zionist sledgehammer of needing to show total support for their cause only goes to reveal the puppeteer’s hands.

    If my 200+ FB friends are any guide to the popular mood, only 1 has supported Israel, while others are busily sharing around photos and reports from the Gazan point of view. Every time there’s an invasion, given social media’s penetration of the planet, we get more pictures, faster, and the most poignant go viral, undercutting the official narrative more or less instantly.

    Anyone flicking between social media and the mainstream media is instantly awoken.

  103. Ben Franklin -Machine Gun Preacher (unleaded version)

    21 Nov, 2012 - 5:40 pm

    Speaking of poignancy, Craig, I was moved when I heard that Palestinian fisherman had no choice but to fish during this rout. Again, the Warsaw Ghetto with smuggling being the only means to stave off starvation, comes to mind.

  104. The only thing that the facist government of Israelies will understand is a complete boycott of all their export products, so when my wife and I shop anywhere in Europe we look at country of origin – if it’s Isreal then we don’t buy. Could the internet start a world wide boycott?
    Regards Fred Hodges

  105. @Kingfelix. I don’t use Facebook any more (it is a privacy/surveillance nightmare), but I can well imagine what you describe is going on. It is a useful source of news that you don’t get from the media. The photos of the dead children I discovered via Twitter (another privacy nightmare). I haven’t seen them on the corporate mediate websites.

    Paxo was right about one thing: the post-Hutton BBC is run by a shower of “incompetents and cowards”.

  106. Ben Franklin -Machine Gun Preacher (unleaded version)

    21 Nov, 2012 - 5:52 pm

    PressTV says the bomber has been identified, but apparently, still at large….no details

  107. doug scorgie

    21 Nov, 2012 - 5:56 pm

    21 Nov, 2012 – 12:49 pm

    “How the hell did a boverboy [William Hague] get to be Foreign Secretary anyway? How did someone who lost an overwhelming vote of no confidence in his ability to run the country from the people of Britain in 2001 get to be deciding foreign policy?”

    Blackmail has great leverage on government ministers.

    Hague is controlled by the super elites because they have intelligence on him that, if made public, would destroy him. In short, he has something to hide.

    Rumours of his bi-sexual/homosexual activities for example have been around since he was at Oxford.

    Hague became Foreign Secretary in May 2010. In August 2010 William Hague stated that the UK should have an ethical foreign policy. In September the same year news that he was sharing a hotel room with a 25 year old man was splattered all over the MSM, including the Daily Telegraph, and the rumours of his past sexual liaisons were brought back into focus. From that time on his ethical foreign policy disappeared.

    I wonder if he ever met Jimmy Savile.

  108. I was looking to see what Beardie had to say about Israel’s atrocities.

    Nothing. Too busy schmoozing with the Chief Rabbit.

    Shared experiences….. etc

    And as for the CoE wailing, crying, hugging and kissing on their irrelevant Synod outcome, well!

  109. Ben Franklin -Machine Gun Preacher (unleaded version)

    21 Nov, 2012 - 6:06 pm

    “Now there is the warfare in the Gaza Strip. I recalled the other day the sequence of events at the start of the current upsurge in violence. But the deficiency in temporal understanding is not just a matter of who started the newest round of fighting. Israeli demands that “the rockets must stop” before Israel ceases its lethal operations feed a general impression that the story is one of Hamas rockets first, and Israeli response afterward.”

    The beatings will continue, until morale improves. They say truth is the first casualty of war, and I think context is the first pillar of truth to fall.

  110. @Mary. The Pilger interview is must read for everyone. He took the words out of my mouth:

  111. Ben Franklin -Machine Gun Preacher (unleaded version)

    21 Nov, 2012 - 6:14 pm

    Poster boy for Redemptive Self-Awareness:

    “THE DESIRE to prevent harm to innocent civilians in Gaza will ultimately lead to harming the truly innocent: the residents of southern Israel. The residents of Gaza are not innocent, they elected Hamas. The Gazans aren’t hostages; they chose this freely, and must live with the consequences.”

    Yes, the Truly Innocent…..

    It reminds me of the early war on the poor by Ronald Reagan, who determined that the lunches of poor children funded by the Feds could include Ketchup, as a vegetable.

    He had no problem with the TRULY needy.

  112. Ben Franklin -Machine Gun Preacher (unleaded version)

    21 Nov, 2012 - 6:22 pm

    Awaiting other media stories on the gas pipeline. Until then, this is it….

    Death by strangulation. I do believe the Zionists seek to fulfill the Biblical prophecy wrt Tyre and Sidon, with Gaza as a bull-dozed wasteland which only snakes and scorpions inhabit.

  113. Ben Franklin -Machine Gun Preacher (unleaded version)

    21 Nov, 2012 - 6:22 pm

    Or, they need more beachfront property…

  114. Hamas and Israel agree to cease-fire, according to La Clinton:

  115. Shouldn’t the following:

    ‘Israel is exercising its right of self-defence in precisely the same sense that Hitler..’

    be more like

    ‘Zionist Israel is exercising its right of self-defence in precisely the same sense that Hitler..’

  116. Ben Franklin -Machine Gun Preacher (unleaded version)

    21 Nov, 2012 - 7:15 pm

    Hillary saved Bibi from himself. 84% of Israelis supported the Gaza action, but only 30% supported the ground invasion.

    Political expediency is always the watchword.

  117. @ Fred 21 Nov, 2012 – 12:49 pm

    How the hell did a boverboy [William Hague] get to be Foreign Secretary anyway?

    Hagues patron throughout the opposition years was the non-domiciled cocaine wholesaler Lord Ashcroft. Now it’s payback time:

  118. That’s fine for his long standing former girlfriend, Tony Blair is also married and he swings both ways according to Clarissa D.W. autobiography.
    I did not like Judo and ended up doing taekwondo for exactly those sweaty moments, i.e two large bulls, slipperin’ and sliding of each other like a day old Kipper of a wet rock….

    Lest see what the so called media expert says to this. I’m not saying he knows or is serious.

  119. Hellarry: ‘Look Bibi, be serious, we want this gas as much as you do, but we can’t be faced with constant attacks and we know were you are taking this…’

    Bibi Churchill: Ok then, Monica, oops, because its you, but I will keep my toys ready for after my re-election.

  120. Craig–as someone who understands political reality better than most–if you were given the task of deciding what Israel should do–what would your answer be?

  121. Rob,

    Were I in charge of Israel I would be considering what are my absolute objectives; and I suspect they would be security, prosperity, the right to live where they now are and personal and political freedom for the citizens of the country. I would then look to South Africa as an example of a political settlement that accepted the once unthinkable – majority rule – and secured those objectives for the white South Africans. And I would look to how to dismantle Israel’s own version of the apartheid state accordingly, looking in particular to the US to pump in huge amounts of money to compensate Palestinians for land lost – money that is being pumped in anyway and spent on weapons.

    But the problem is that Israel in fact has other objectives, which are linked to lunatic notions of god-given hegemony over a certain land area where nobody else should live or share in governance.

  122. The divisions in south africa seem as wide as they ever were, just somewhat less clearly defined by colour. I would hope for something far better for the palestinians.

    Pilger on south africa:

  123. @ Craig,

    ” But the problem is that Israel in fact has other objectives, which are linked to lunatic notions of god-given hegemony over a certain land area where nobody else should live or share in governance.”

    But – God was the real estate agent that gave the Zionists the land – and who can dispute the will of the almighty?

    If you equate:-

    US aid for Israeli weapons purchases – vesus – the alternative impact of funds sensibly directed to and applied for building bridges of peace – take your choice.

  124. A small protest individuals can participate in is simply making sure not to buy any product with a 729 barcode – 729 indicates that goods come from Israel. I understand the BDS (Boycott Divestment Sanction) movement is having some success, and it something we powerless individuals can do to show support for Palestinians.

  125. Craig, I know nothing of the Philistines except that they were, er, Philistines. I always thought that Arabs were defined by their mother tongue being Arabic. I understand that much non-Israelite/Jewish civilisation in Palestine pre-dates the Israelite presence but non-Jewish non-Hebrew speaking still leaves lots of possible peoples apart from Arabs.

    Of course, it has no bearing on the rights and wrongs of the situation now.

  126. Craig–thanks for the reply. Succinct and to the point. There are some key differences between Israel and South Africa though. South Afrcia was not surrounded by countries calling for its extermination.

  127. @Robert King. When have Jordan and Lebanon ever asked for Israels destruction, could you please provide us with a link.

    Whilst we are at it, Robert, do you regard the Golan Heights and Sheeba farms as Israeli territory?

    And when would be a good time to return them to their right full owners?

  128. @Robert King – astonishing that people are still trotting out the same tired line.

    Thought experiment by Juan Cole –

    (Not for you, Robert, it will make you angry, it doesn’t love Israel enough to exempt it from all international law)

  129. Ziofuckwits at their best, shooting fish in a barrel and calling it “self defence”. The crazed lunatic in charge in the run up to the elections (solely for the Jews) is flexing his muscles and showing how ably he can kill many hundreds of Palestinians and not break into any kind of a sweat.

    Evidently the most vicious wanker contest passed as “elections” calls for the routine and ritual slaughter of the Palestinians whom have been subject to more than seventy years of ethnic cleansing while the world has stood by and applauded the aggressive ziofuckwits as the inheritors of the vengeance to be wreaked upon all those inhabitants of the mid east.

    However, in the unequal war that has been under way, there are new weapons that have come to play a tiny part and the resulting damage from these weapons have been largely kept secret by the ziofuckwits in a bid to deny the Palestinians the feedback of the accuracy of their targeting.

    The fact that for the first time there are actually rockets getting fired at the ziofuckwitstan, and not the crude pipe bombs has these ziofuckwits running around and scurrying cockroach fashion to hide in any nook and cranny available. Iron doom has turned out to be another white elephant that is a money pit and no protection, and the plans to “pound” the Palestinians some more has back fired in a spectacular fashion.

    The media around you are lying by taking the usual lines of “poor plucky Is………” also by keeping you in the dark as to the developments on the ground. The old days of defenceless Palestinians not owning more than few slings and piles of rock going to the fight of the fighter jets and helicopter gunships and tanks and howitzers firing flechette rounds. Needless to point out the indignant ziofuckwits are up in arms that these kind of weapons have found their way into the hands of the Palestinians, because as Norman Finkelstein has observed the ziofuckwit militia parading as an army is home to a bunch of most cowardly operatives who like shooting little old ladies children and defenceless civilians.

    The fact that all of you are getting duped is on many more levels than the most obvious ziofuckwit narrative of a “nation” under siege. Fact is the rapid developments in the area of the untold poverty and misery have brought on a revolution of the poor, dispossessed and destitute that no longer fear the shiny weapon systems and are no longer afraid of death. This development is the beginning of the end for the tyranny of the ziofuckwitstan and its allies that have all come out in a single chorus in support of the rights of the ziofuckwitstan to self determination and “self-defence”, this being the zero sum game. Ie no self-defence and self determination for anyone else.

    People in the mid east have a long memory and for the years that are to come those supporters of injustice and tyranny will come to rue their ill advised and unjust decision to side with the forces of evil and tyranny. Simply put Palestinians have nothing more to lose, and this makes them a far more impressive group of fighters and soldiers than any of their pampered lard arse counter parts in the ziofuckwit militia or any other army.

    Go find out the damage that has been sustained by the ziofuckwits despite their efforts to keep a lid on it.

  130. Palestinians are generally referred to as Arabs in Israel, regardless of their genetic origin, Levi. In that sense, Canaan was Arabic in 2000 BC, before the Israelites decided they liked the place (see Exodus)

    Also, no-one was speaking Arabic in 2000 BC, as it hadn’t been invented. Neither were they speaking Hebrew, but Canaanite, one of the branches of the protosemitic language of the region. By contrast, the Jews emerging from Egypt after generations of residency were almost certainly speaking Egyptian….

  131. Ben Franklin -Machine Gun Preacher (unleaded version)

    22 Nov, 2012 - 3:53 pm

    How is a stalemate, victory for Palestinians? Positive thinking won’t, alone, do it.

    “Under the deal, the Palestinians and Israelis agreed to end all hostilities against each other. But the Israeli regime did not agree to lift the blockade of the Gaza Strip.

    Gaza has been blockaded since 2007, a situation that has caused a decline in the standards of living among the population of about 1.7 million Palestinians.”

  132. Ben Franklin -Machine Gun Preacher (unleaded version)

    22 Nov, 2012 - 4:20 pm

    Fratricide, patricide, genocide….all have the same odor.

  133. Ben Franklin -Machine Gun Preacher (unleaded version)

    22 Nov, 2012 - 5:06 pm

    But….Bibi Obama has an election to win, people.

    “In Israel, small demonstrations were held in communities that were struck by rockets. Protesters said the military should have hit Hamas harder and some held signs demanding security and denouncing “agreements with terrorists.”

    Leaders on both sides used tough language as they prepared to engage in indirect negotiations on a future border arrangement through Egyptian mediators.

    “I know there are citizens that expected a wider military operation and it could be that it will be needed. But at this time the right thing of the state of Israel is to take this opportunity to reach a continuous cease-fire,” Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu said.”

  134. Ancient history is subject that I enjoy reading about, but this is a purely a layman’s interest. However from what I can recall from some of the books I’ve read on the ancient ME, the earliest known inhabitants of the land now called Palestine/Israel, were comprised of two distinct people, namely the Philistines, who were settled on & near the coastal areas, and the Canaanities, who were settled much further inland. Not much is known about the Philistines, as they mysteriously disappeared quite early on, but the general view is that they were most probably Greeks settlers, and probably from Crete.

    “Palestine” is the Roman latinised corruption of the original Greek “Παλεστίνα / Palestína”, as used by & recorded by Herodotus in the 5th century BC. The Philistines are sometimes said to have lived in five cities (the Pentapolis) that together made up Philistia, from which the Greeks may have derived the name Palestina.

    The Canaanites were a Semitic people, who spoke a Semtic language from which both Hebrew & Arabic are derived from. Canaan (& the Canaanites) is specifically mentioned in the ancient Egyptian records, and at times as a tributary to the Pharaohs. Two centuries after these early Canaanite references, come the first Egyptian references to a new people, the “Habiru”, thought to be the early Hebrews. The Old Testament itself then documents the invasion & occupation of the Land of Canaan by the Hebrews, as exemplify by the the fate of the Jericho & it’s inhabitants.

    Two further points of interests are that Gaza, was an Canaanite town that was actually visited by Herodotus, and the habit of describing narrow minded people as being “Philistines” is a fairly recent invention, originating from a German university cleric in 1689 who admonished his fellow townspeople who had attacked his students, by quoting the phrase ‘The Philistines be upon thee’, drawn from the Book of Judges.

  135. Fascinating. I ask a legitimate question about what Israel should do and become troll ground zero. For the record troll-boys and girls I am an Amnesty International activist and fully support their position on this–both sides are guilty of human rights abuseses and must stop. The fact that the mildest-worded and genuinely spirited question about what a state should do under the circumstances activates your trap cards speaks volumes about partisanship, display morality and tribalism. If anyone has a grown-up answer then I would really like to hear it.

  136. I thought Craig’s immediate answer to your question was grown-up, Rob. Didn’t you? I see you did. Then you made a provocative assertion, which Nevermind (who is no troll, believe me) questioned. You haven’t answered his question.

    I also would be glad to hear which of Israel’s neighbours has called for its destruction. Don’t you think the regional hostility which does exist would be greatly mitigated if the Palestinians – more broadly indeed, Muslims generally, Sephardim and Christians – were allowed equal status with immigrant Ashkenazi Jews in Israel?

    Your reaction is revealing.

  137. Funny enough Rob, the blindingly obvious solution for ending the conflict was inadvertently broadcasted by the BBC last night;

    I don’t know what the greater shock is, the once Anti-War Charles Kennedy defending mass murder by repeating that Zionist justification for mass murder by uttering the words “Israel has a right to defend itself”, or you claiming that you belong to Amnesty, but mind you, given the direction AI has traveled in the last few years, attracting people like you, actually shouldn’t surprise anybody anymore.

  138. Well posted, Macky. Well said, Owen. It’s taken three bloody assaults on Gaza to get these points into the mainstream, and they need to stay there.

  139. Ben Franklin -Machine Gun Preacher (unleaded version)

    23 Nov, 2012 - 1:22 pm

    Self-righteous alarm is a personal fire first-responders tend to ignore.

  140. What a very gnomic comment, Ben Franklin.

  141. Do you write like that deliberately (if so, I’m not impressed) or is it lerely the true reflection of a confused mind?

    Whatever, it’s rather tiring.

  142. Ben Franklin -Machine Gun Preacher (unleaded version)

    23 Nov, 2012 - 10:33 pm

    “Over Skype this morning, Harry and I spoke about the situation on the ground in Gaza, he told me that: “People are very relieved. The overwhelming majority of people are simply happy that the bloodshed was stopped for now.” It’s not hard to imagine, given that the death toll in Gaza has now reached 100. Harry told me the reason he is reporting in Gaza, is that the conflict there is: “one of the least noticed injustices on the face of the Earth. The overwhelming majority of the media portrays it as a symmetrical conflict between two equally matched peoples, which it’s not.””

  143. Ben Franklin -Machine Gun Preacher (unleaded version)

    23 Nov, 2012 - 10:44 pm

    Non-violent, non-cooperation, is the ticket. It is necessary to shame the Authoritarian’s constituents conscience, not inflame their sensibilities, if peace and justice are your goals.

    “The Friends of Freedom and Justice Committee, in Bil’in village, near the central West Bank city of Ramallah, reported Friday that two residents were shot by a rubber-coated metal bullets, while dozens suffered the effects of tear gas inhalation, after Israeli soldiers attacked the weekly nonviolent protest against the Annexation Wall and Settlements.”

  144. Ben Franklin -Machine Gun Preacher (unleaded version)

    23 Nov, 2012 - 11:04 pm

    T.E. Lawrence wanted to unite the disparate tribes into a unified force.

    “When Lawrence left Damascus four days later, the Syrians had a government that lasted for two years without foreign interference. Writing in Seven Pillars of Wisdom about those momentous days, he said:

    ‘I was sitting alone in my room working and thinking out as firm a way as the turbulent memories of the day allowed, when the muezzins began to send their call of last prayer through the moist night over the illuminations of the feasting city. One, with a ringing voice of special sweetness, cried into my window from a nearby mosque. I found myself involuntarily distinguishing his words: “God alone is great: I testify that there are no gods but God: and Mohammed is his Prophet. Come to prayer: come to security. God alone is great: there is no god but God.” At the close he dropped his voice two tones, almost to speaking level and softly added: “And He is very good to us this day, O people of Damascus.” The clamour hushed, as everyone seemed to obey the call to prayer on this their first night of perfect freedom.'”

    It didn’t last.

  145. Ben Franklin -Machine Gun Preacher (unleaded version)

    24 Nov, 2012 - 12:25 am

    I may repost this, occasionally fyi (cross posted from Correa thread) as some seem to have missed.

    “According to my non-secular auspices I have undertaken a vow of silence. My Order does allow ‘signs’ which amount to narrative, as though a scribe merely parrots script, as a form of appoved communication. Unfortunately, this vow proscribes direct responses to questions, and i apologize to one and all, for the unintended slight.


  146. Two more bit of Ben-ery :

    “Self-righteous alarm is a personal fire first-responders (sic) tend to ignore”

    (yesterday, 1.22pm)

    “This is (sic) the tall weeds of compromise and democracy. Coalitions, alliances may form and then, (comma – sic) disintegrate, (comma – sic) as the normalcy of human nature attempts a beat-back (huh?) of primordial instincts. I hope it develops with as little outside interference, (comma – sic) as possible”

    (yesterday, other thread, 10.29pm).

    Translations, anyone?

  147. Dispatches – inside Britain’s Israel Lobby!

  148. Habbabkuk, no chance. IF we smoke the same stuff as him, just maybe; though even then, i doubt it.

  149. Your readers might be interested in this poem ‘Palestine’ by Heathcote Williams from the Palestine Chronicle.

  150. Israel is denounced as an “occupying power” by both Amnesty and Human rights watch. I have no disagreement with their assessement and I do not support Israel’s actions so please spare me the ad hominems.
    Assuming that people actually want solutions rather than just to display their off-the-shelf morality for the delight of their friends–then a question has to be fairly faced. How to get the Israelis to change their policies? I submit that this is unlikely to happen in isolation. While not disagreeing with Craig’s long-term assessment re South Africa and apartheid I revert to my original question.
    Backing Israel into a corner is unlikely to succeed. Their memories are long and many of them think that the world stood by while their ancestors were led meekly to the slaughter. Without realising the place that this has in modern Israeli minds criticisms will not find their target. Others in the region–like Amedinejad–understand its significance which is why they deny the holocaust. Please understand–for the sake of the hard of thinking(you know who you are, silly boys and girls)–I am not trying to justify what they do but to understand it.
    Unlike South Africa Israel has genuine reason to believe that there are enemies in the region who seek their downfall. Some of those enemies have done so actively recently and the even more recent Arab Springs’ destabilising of things further are unlikely to make them feel more secure. Insecure people lash out. Same for countries.
    Since some commentators appeared to doubt the thought that Israelies might find it very easy to recall neighbours’ actively conniving at thier death then might I draw attention to:
    Suicide bombings which are a regular occurence in Israel and which were openly funded by various neighbours and organised by Hamas. Open calls for Isreal’s destruction by folk such as Amadinejad. Wars in living memory with Syria (1948, 1967, 1973, 1982; Egpyt (offically ended 1979); Jordan (officially at war from 1948-1994).
    Putative solutions that wring hands, blame the UK and the US, and remind us how awful it is that children die in war–as if we did not know these things–do nothing to advance the cause of peace. We dont have a time machine. The situation is as it is. The question is how to get out of it.
    As an experienced diplomat who has a much deeper understanding of the situation and of the realities of politics on the ground I would appreciate Craig’s views. Or anyone elses, if they can refrain from treating me as if I am Melanie Philips’ apologist wandering in by mistake.
    If folk are having a hard time thinking about this issue without first thinking “what does my tribe believe” then might I suggest watching this video first?!

  151. Ben Franklin -Machine Gun Preacher (unleaded version)

    25 Nov, 2012 - 5:05 pm

    Some seem to have no respect for solemn vows. Even if it produces nothing outside of it’s own reward, this is revealing the players for what they are, and that makes me truly grateful.

  152. Robert King,

    you are just feeding us the same old lies about Ahmadinejad that have been spread by scoundrels and repeated by those of their ilk and other minions too lazy or stupid to check the facts. You cannot even spell that name correctly but pretend to know what he actually said in Farsi. You are just as moronic as that psychopath McCain who wanted to talk about Ahmadinejad but could not even pronounce his name. Can zou please look at this video
    to understand how pathetic you are.

    May I also refresh your memory that Israel attacked Egypt in 1956. It was a war of defence, no doubt, but somehow the war-crime apologets like you, display a selective amnesia for that event. What kind of an “experienced diplomat” are you or have been, if I understood your babbling properly? Do not be ashamed of your great achievements as a diplomat, just tell us.

  153. to levi9909,

    are there realy 9909 of you already or is this a mystification? No point arguing about Philistines. Unless they have all died out, what I tend to disbelieve, they are now arab, hebrew or aramaic speakers.

  154. This is interesting.

    History The Right of Return!

  155. A corrected version….

    “I think that if you start speculating that “Inglourious Bastards” or “Schindler’s List” or “The Boy in the Striped Pajamas” are released to an IDF timetable, you are losing grip on reality”

    …Mr Murray – i believe you are a gentleman and an honourable educated man. Howeve the more i see statements like this, on top of the calls to dissmantle and destroy sovereign states, the more i am getting worried and impatient.

    As a foreign ambsassador to Britian fo years ,what world do you live in and why have you no grasp on real political realities? According to statements such as the one above, i am seriously worried. Has Mr Murray never heard of the Tavistock institutue or indeed the Special Ops branch of MI6/MI5 who are allowed to determine/steer popular culture and have done so for hundreds of years? As a foreign ambassador it would be expected of Mr Murray to understand and comprehend the concept of cultural and propanda influences- the fact that MR Murray doesnt demonstrates that he is, naivelly or willfully demonstrates complicitness. My obvious hope is that Murray is guilty of the former but even then it cannot be excused.

    Mr Murray- again,with all due respect, please continue as a well respected insightful but naive commentator or wake the fuck up and realise what is really going on in the world. As much as i respect people like Murray,my patients really is wearing thin with this kind of willful or blissful ignorance. Unfortunately, we the people have to demand better…

    Murray – again,with all due respect to you as a gentleman and moral man- wake the fuck up or stop trying to put yourself as a cutting edge commentator………

  156. Chris Jones,

    I hope that you are also sufficiently gentlemanly to realize that you are just peddling your opinions. I presume that once we have heard of Tavistock intitute, we should better adapt to the popular culture of lies and “comprehend the concept of cultural and propanda influences”, whatever that might mean at the moment. If we then believe that everything is just a coincidence or accidental, we will live happily for ever after, amen. Can you please explain to us miserable suckers “what is really going on in the world”, to use your phrase.

  157. @Robert King. When have Jordan and Lebanon ever asked for Israels ‘extermination’ , could you please provide us with a link.

    Whilst we are at it, Robert, do you regard the Golan Heights and Sheeba farms as Israeli territory?

    And when would be a good time to return them to their right full owners.

    Far from me to assume that you are a troll, Robert, I was genuinely interested at your views as you wrote this rather glib statement.

    “Craig–thanks for the reply. Succinct and to the point. There are some key differences between Israel and South Africa though. South Afrcia was not surrounded by countries calling for its extermination.”

    No, but its Apartheid leadership operated a clandestine arms procurement operation with Israel, Mr. Cameron knows a bit about that, Maggie sent him and Dr. kelly, RIP, down there to sort out some ‘rogue nukes’. That Apartheid was practised by both is not a chance concurrence.

    The Golan should be given back, no need for long protracted negotiations, it belongs to Syria, same with other territories. Stealing land is not acceptable and has caused wars in history, not just in the ME.

    This special relationship Israel claims to have with others, is bogus, it has continually ignore UN resolutions and the Balfour declaration and only excelled at selecting self perpetuating strong men and women to keep to this fascist apartheid line.

  158. If folk are having a hard time thinking about this issue without first thinking “what does my tribe believe”

    Not being a tribe member, I’ll just offer my thoughts. This is what I believe:
    The Palestinians fled or were evicted from their land during the last 60 years in order to accommodate a – yes – tribe of Central Europeans on the basis of a promise allegedly made by God to their very distant maternal line sometime around 2000-1500 BC. Since then these refugees in their own land have been treated like shit by the very people who should have taken home an important message from WW2: namely don’t treat people like shit.

    The dispossession continues, in defiance of international law.

    I believe that Israeli propaganda, and its network of undue influence throughout the US and other administrations, are sufficiently powerful, and sufficiently mendacious, to permit any opponent of its policies to altogether ignore any mitigating factors or pleas for sympathy it advances. Israel’s case is made quite loudly enough without its opponents having to moderate their condemnation. Sure, that’s not fair, but neither is Israel. When Israel starts accepting some responsibility for what it has done, then maybe I will moderate my line.

    In short, it shows weakness to accept Israel’s self-justificatory propaganda, or any part of it. If you understood the conflict at all, you would have picked that up, surely?

  159. RT doesn’t take too kindly either to being smeared, or having it’s Gaza office bombed;

  160. There is a simple answer to Robert King’s question, of course. Enforce international law. If necessary without the consent or participation of the US, which seems determined to evade it. That will also take care of Palestinian transgressions, giving a zero-sum outcome for the partisans on both sides.

    All it needs is balls.

  161. Ben Franklin -Machine Gun Preacher (unleaded version)

    26 Nov, 2012 - 10:19 pm

    Amnesty International shouldn’t be the baby thrown out with the bathwater.

    “Chimes of Freedom” Dylan is a Jew, but I believe, secular.

  162. Take a look at this, Ben:


    Cheeba may also care to note the use of the word shiksa in this piece…

  163. Ben Franklin -Machine Gun Preacher (unleaded version)

    26 Nov, 2012 - 10:54 pm

    Well, this is a fine, Howdy-Do……..

    “In 1971 he had declared, in an interview in Time magazine, that the Neo-Nazi Zionist Rabbi Meir Kahane, was ‘”a really sincere guy. He’s really put it all together.’ One can only assume that it is Dylan’s ignorance and political idiocy which prevented him from understanding that the very segregation he once opposed was at the heart of Kahane’s philosopy, and worse.

    Today Dylan is ploughing the same furrow that has guided his career – a love of the money that he lyrically disdains. It should therefore come as no surprise that he is playing in Israel on June 20th. An Israel which maintains a brutal occupation in the West Bank, bombs and murders in Gaza and which treats its Arab citizens in the same way as South Africa treated Black people under Apartheid. But no doubt the money is good. The fact that at 70 years of age Dylan is already fabulously rich and shows no signs of wishing to spend his fortune in retirement, one can only assume that it is a love of money for its own sake that is his guiding principle.”


  164. Komodo,
    thanks for the poem and a good laugh as a bonus. I am old enough to remember his songs played on the radio in the sixties but have never quite realized how stupid Dylan actually is. I just love this line of his:
    “He took the crumbs of the world and he turned it into wealth”.
    What an excellent lyrics and a great advice for poor buggers like myself. But where can I find these crumbs?

  165. Ben Franklin -Machine Gun Preacher (unleaded version)

    27 Nov, 2012 - 12:51 am

  166. Ben Franklin -Machine Gun Preacher (unleaded version)

    27 Nov, 2012 - 12:53 am

    Don’t tell me that….Santy Claus?

  167. Ben Franklin -Machine Gun Preacher (unleaded version)

    27 Nov, 2012 - 2:40 am

  168. Ben Franklin -Machine Gun Preacher (unleaded version)

    27 Nov, 2012 - 3:05 am

    The hero population, is in decline as assuredly, as the ice sheet is melting. I marvel, sometimes at my naivete, in the face of so many icons falling like trees in the forest, without any to hear. It’s the not wanting to hear; that’s the core of the problem. We create our own reality, and if willing the grooming or shaping of same, can be rationalized as ‘positive thinking’ or some-such homiliy, can remain in the grey-shaded darkness which allows us to excuse ourselves from reality.

    Such delusions have power, but they come with a cost I’m am not exempt from, but wish fervently, not to have to pay.

  169. While recognising his gift of poetry, Mr Dylan is a spent force, with an unspent reserve built on good fortune. I wonder how much of this he has truly given back. But then, at least he doesn’t charge £500 a ticket at a concert performance, unlike The Rolling Stones! I see him as having infinitely less clarity now than in his younger days, having been successfully corrupted by his fame and fortune.

    This extract on his religious beliefs from wiki exemplifies that he is a confused man, as does the piece Komodo linked above.

  170. Belatedly, the link to the extract i referred above:


  171. Villager,
    I cannot imagine that there are many fans who would want to watch Dylan for 500 quid. So it is not an expression of charity if he asks for less. He just takes what he can. I suspect that he must have been always a moron, a “spent force” during the past fifty years. Casual listening does not usually reveal the profound stupidity of his lyrics. So it only hits you after, thanks to Komodo, you have seen the crap printed.

  172. Bob Dylan is a thief. People should Google James Damiano.

    Another one is Lady Gaga. Google Lina Morgana. Unfortunately she ‘committed suicide’ just before her album was complete. Gaga was working on songs with her. Morgana’s mum is very blunt about Gaga and videos of Lina suggest that Gaga has stolen her music, vocal style and image lock, stock and barrel without a word of credit. Some suggest, and her mum does not discourage, that Gaga may have even pushed her from the hotel roof.

  173. Oh Karel, i realise that…i was just having a dig at the Stones. I would’ve loved to have seen them this week and taken my guitarist son but at £500 a piece!? And we’re supposed to be in a recession!?

    As for Dylan being a moron, that pic of him receiving the Freedom medal from Obama (linked above earlier), he really does look like a Jokerman. Dylan was right when he said “Dignity has never been photographed”. Where is his?

  174. Ben Franklin, 27 Nov, 3:05 am and Villager, 1:22 pm

    “I see him as having infinitely less clarity now than in his younger days, having been successfully corrupted by his fame and fortune.”

    This reminds me of an exchange between myself and Phil, about the corrupting influence of the commercial “music business”. It works rather well as part of the corporate power structure. It pours wealth and fame onto a select few, while exploiting and marginalising the majority. I’m sure that it actually disadvantages far more talent than it empowers. Of the minority that it favours, it corrupts many, or just cuts them off from the real concerns of ordinary people by throwing stupid quantities of money at them.

    “The hero population, is in decline as assuredly, as the ice sheet is melting.”

    Ben, I found the Doune the Rabbit Hole festival truly uplifting. Most attendees were in the 20 to 30 year age group, and they were highly politically aware. When I have political conversations with people about my age in my neighbourhood, I find myself constantly back-tracking to counter impressions they’ve formed from corporate media propaganda. Not so at the festival. These young people know that the mainstream media’s mission is to influence rather than to inform. They read diverse Internet sources, they acknowledge the contradictions they find there, and they are hungry for honesty and deeper understanding. They really gave me hope for the future.

    Another thing about that festival was that it had a strong community spirit rather than being highly commercialised. There were no “stars” or “mega bands”; no heavy security or helicopter pads to keep the “stars” separate from the “punters”.

  175. Ben Franklin -Machine Gun Preacher (unleaded version)

    28 Nov, 2012 - 4:39 pm

    Wish I could have been there, Clark.

    Still not a word about Colorado and Washington making pot legal. Obama probably doesn’t like the fact that 10,000 people won’t be incarcerated, this year. The prison guard unions will suffer.

  176. Ben Franklin -Machine Gun Preacher (unleaded version)

    28 Nov, 2012 - 4:56 pm

    oops…..broke my vow….mea culpa.

  177. David Pollard,

    Just deleted an item from you re the world being “controlled by Jewish bankers” – we don’t permit that sort of thing here. In any case, it should be quite clear that the Middle East crisis is a great deal more complicated than that.

  178. Can’t wait for Palestine to become a member of the International Criminal Court.

    “UN set to back Palestinian status upgrade”–FT

  179. Just deleted an item from you re the world being “controlled by Jewish bankers” we don’t permit that sort of thing here.

    Gideon Osborne could not find an Englishman good enough to run the Bank of England (despite the incredibly low bar set by Mervyn King) so UK must accept a known financial gangster and senior Goldman Sachs cuckoo from Canada. The press appear not to want to make a big deal about such an unprecedented and frankly bizarre choice.

    Everyone knows who the top Tory party donator is, everyone knows who he worked for as a director and is still a major shareholder of. It’s a disgrace that a foreigner with such connections and history has been shoe-horned into the job – it can only be bad for the UK.

  180. Ben Franklin -Machine Gun Preacher (unleaded version)

    29 Nov, 2012 - 1:13 am

    The 52 signatories, including renowned US academic Noam Chomsky, and Irish Nobel Peace Prize winner Mairead Maguire, also accused the United States and the European Union of “complicity” by selling weapons to Israel.

    “While the United States has been the largest sponsor of Israel, supplying billions of dollars of advanced military hardware every year, the role of the European Union must not go unnoticed, in particular its hefty subsidies to Israel’s military complex through its research programmes,” the letter said.

  181. Jon,
    why should we not desire to be “controlled by Jewish bankers”? I do not quite understand it. I just love to be controlled by them, knowing that my money is safe in their hands.

  182. The full interview of Julian Assange by Ms Bawadi.

    1 December 2012 Last updated at 04:17 Help Wikileaks founder Julian Assange has spoken about his battle against extradition to Sweden in a rare and defiant interview with the BBC from the Ecuadorean embassy in London.

    Mr Assange sought refuge at the embassy in June, to avoid extradition for questioning over allegations of rape and sexual assault, which he denies. He has remained there since and was granted asylum by Ecuador in August.

    He spoke to the BBC’s Zeinab Badawi about the claims, as well as the case of Private Bradley Manning – currently facing a US Army trial for allegedly giving secret files to Wikileaks – and about freedom of speech.

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