Putin’s Victorious Defeat

by craig on March 7, 2014 3:37 pm in Uncategorized

Just a month ago, Putin had one of his pet oligarchs, the firmly pro-Russian multi-billionaire Yanukovich, in power in Ukraine.  Putin had been to an awful lot of trouble to ensure that Yanukovich got elected.  It is undoubtedly true that the United States and its allies funded various pro-western groups in the Ukraine – my friend Ray McGovern, former senior CIA, put a figure of US$100 million on it, and he should know.  The resources Putin poured in to ensure Yanukovich’s election were more in kind than financial, but were not on too different a scale.

In earlier attempts to put Yanukovich in power, Putin had in 2004 helped organise massive electoral fraud, and Putin’s secret service had attempted to assassinate Victor Yushchenko.  The 2010 election of Yanukovich also involved a great deal of fraud.  Russia is an influential member of the OSCE, Ukraine is also a member and that organization is notably mealy-mouthed in pointing out the derelictions of its own members. Nonetheless its observation mission of the 2010 Presidential elections stated:

 “The presidential election met most OSCE commitments and other international standards for democratic elections and consolidated progress achieved since 2004. The process was transparent and offered voters a genuine choice between candidates representing diverse political views. However, unsubstantiated allegations of large-scale electoral fraud negatively affected the election atmosphere and voter confidence in the process.”

That is about as close as the OSCE has ever come to accusing one of its own members of fraud.  International organisations have their obvious limitations.

Putin had put years of effort into getting the President of Ukraine which he wanted, and he had him.  Yanukovich attempted to steer an even-handed path between Russia and the West, while putting his main effort into acquiring an astonishing personal fortune.  Putin lost patience when Yanukovich appeared ready to sign an EU association agreement, and put extremely heavy pressure on Yanukovich over debt, energy supplies, and doubtless some deeply personal pressures too.  Yanukovich backed down from the EU Association agreement and signed a new trade deal with Russia, appearing on the path to Putin’s cherished new Eurasian customs union.

The west – and not only the west – of Ukraine erupted into popular protest.  The reason for this is perfectly simple. Income, lifestyle, education, health and social security for ordinary people are far better in western and central Europe than they are in Russia.  The standard of living for ordinary Polish people in Poland has caught up at a tremendous rate towards the rest of the EU.  I am not depending on statistics here – I have lived in Poland, travelled widely in Poland and speak Polish.  I was professionally involved in the process of Polish economic transformation.  There have been a large number of commenters on this blog this last few days who deny that the standard of living for ordinary people in Poland is better as a result of EU membership, and believe life for ordinary people is better in Russia than in the west.  I also of course speak Russian and have travelled widely in Russia.  Frankly, you have to be so ideologically blinkered to believe that, I have no concerns if such people leave this blog and never come back; they are incapable of independent thought anyway.

Undoubtedly pro-western groups financed by the US and others played a part in the anti-Yanukovich movement.  They may have had a catalytic role, but that cannot detract from the upswell of hundreds of thousands of Ukrainians who were not paid by the West, and drove Yanukovich from power. It is true that, when the situation became violent some very unpleasant nationalist, even fascist, groups came to the fore.  There is a great deal of extreme right wing thuggery in all the former Soviet Union – ask Uzbeks who live in Russia.  The current government in power in Kiev seem a diverse bunch, and seem to include some pleasant people and some very unpleasant people.  Elections this year will make things clearer.   It is also true that corruption is the norm among the Ukrainian political elite, across any nationalist or ideological divides.

In a very short space of time, Putin went from the triumph of killing off the EU Association agreement to the disaster of completely losing control of Kiev.  But for reasons including trade, infrastructure and debt, the new government was bound to come back to some relationship and accommodation with Putin eventually.  It just needed patience.

Instead of which, Putin decided to go for a macho seizure of the Crimea.  There is no doubt that the actions of surrounding military bases and government buildings by Russian forces, and controlling roads and borders, are illegal under international law.  There also appears little doubt that a large proportion of Crimea’s population would like union with Russia, though whether a genuine majority I am not sure.  I am sure under these circumstances of intimidation and military occupation, the referendum will show a massive majority.  Hitler pulled the same trick.

So now Putin can stride the stage as the macho guy who outfoxed the west and used his military to win Crimea for Mother Russia.  But it is an extremely hollow victory.  He has gained Crimea, but lost the other 95% of the Ukraine, over which one month ago he exercised a massive political influence.

The western powers will not bring any really effective sanctions that would harm the financial interests of the interconnected super-rich, be they Russian oligarchs or City bankers.  But they will now do what they were not prepared to do before, provide enough resources to make Ukraine politically free of Russia.  The EU has already agreed to match the US$19 billion in guarantees Putin had promised to Yanukovich. Before the annexation of Crimea the EU was not prepared to do that.

The Crimea was the only ethnic Russian majority province in Ukraine.  Donetsk does not have an ethnic Russian majority, only a Russian speaking majority – just like Cardiff has an English speaking majority.  The difference is key to understand the situation, and largely ignored by the mainstream media.  Without Crimea, the chances of the pro-Putin forces in the rest of Ukraine ever mustering an electoral majority are extremely slim.  Putin has gained Crimea and lost Ukraine – has he really won?

The real tragedy, of course, is that Ukraine’s relationships are viewed as a zero-sum game.  Russia has huge interests in common with Europe.  I hope to see Ukraine a member of the EU in the next decade, and Putin has made that vastly more likely than it was a month ago.  But why does that have to preclude a close economic relationship with Russia?  The EU should not operate as a barrier against the rest of the world, but as a zone of complete freedom within and ever-expanding freedom to  and from without.  And European Union will never be complete until Russia, one of the greatest of European cultures, is a member.

 

 

 

 

Tweet this post

238 Comments

  1. Sofia Kibo Noh

    7 Mar, 2014 - 9:58 pm

    Grownups .

    Look. Whatever the truth about Putin (Prince of Darkness), the known facts just don’t support the narrative that our corporate media would have us believe.

    Just to name a few:

    Nuland’s “$5 billion to destabilise Ukraine boast”.

    Nuland’s hacked “Fuck the EU” and micro-manage the coup hacked phonecall.

    The “Russian Invasion” of Ukraine.

    Third Party Snipers.

    The legality of the new Ukraine “government”.

    I could go on and on…… but I’ll spare you all. I’m sure you get what I’m driving at and it either confirms or contradicts your beliefs.

    Whatever is the truth about Putin, there are Millions of Russians, but also many Ukrainians, Europeans and Americans whose lives are touched in one way or another by what happened last time US financial elites sponsored the seizure of power by fascists in Europe. For them, whether the nominal head of state in Russia is Putin or Noddy, the sentiment of “Never Again” is more than an empty slogan and they will act on this in whatever ways they can.

    “Ceux qui peuvent vous faire croire à des absurdités peuvent vous faire commettre des atrocités” Voltaire

  2. Uzbek in the UK

    7 Mar, 2014 - 10:01 pm

    Headache

    This is VERY BLOODY low from troll blogger with ribbon of St George and Russia stands for freedom motto.

    “Politkovskaya “murdered by KGB goons”

    Do you question this? Is this also CIA propoganda?

  3. Uzbek in the UK

    7 Mar, 2014 - 10:03 pm

    Cheers Ben. Will be more careful with words next time.

  4. Uzbek in the UK

    7 Mar, 2014 - 10:11 pm

    In Smaller Freedom
    7 Mar, 2014 – 8:53 pm

    I still say give Ukraine a chance. I read that some lefties claimed that it would take Germany half a century to pay for unification and yet it did not turn out to be that bad.

    You are not suggesting that it would be better for Ukraine to be like Belarus, do not you?

  5. Uzbek in the UK,

    Your point is similar to the argument that China can ‘blackmail’ the US because it’s Washington’s biggest creditor. In fact, the two are inextricably dependent on each other, just as Russia and the EU now are. Cutting off energy supplies to the EU would hurt Russia as well as the EU so any attempt at ‘blackmail’ would be foolish. I think Putin genuinely wants to settle this dispute now but, assuming that Obama also wants a settlement, events may have moved too far to permit a quick solution.

  6. Uzbek in the UK

    7 Mar, 2014 - 10:16 pm

    Sofia Kibo Noh
    7 Mar, 2014 – 9:58 pm

    It was actually many more Belorussians and Ukrainians who were killed or died because of Nazi occupation. 1 in 4 in Belarus and 1 in 8 in Ukraine.

  7. Uzbek in the UK

    7 Mar, 2014 - 10:22 pm

    Andy

    Never underestimate KGB officer. Yes, gas blackmail could hurt Russia, but it is Putin who has better cards in this play. We have witnessed gas blockade (by Russia) few years ago. Turned out to be more devastating for Europeans (eastern mostly) than for Kremlin.

    Comparison with China although seem to be relevant but in fact Communist government in Beijing seem to be more into profit making and economy first, than seemingly market economy Russia under KGB leadership.

  8. technicolour

    7 Mar, 2014 - 10:22 pm

    “Where is General Accounting when you need them? We need an audit” – no, you need better sources.

  9. “Never underestimate KGB officer. Yes, gas blackmail could hurt Russia, but it is Putin who has better cards in this play. We have witnessed gas blockade (by Russia) few years ago. Turned out to be more devastating for Europeans (eastern mostly) than for Kremlin.”

    But that wasn’t political, that was business, if someone refuses to pay the gas company their gas gets cut off. The gas to Europe wasn’t cut off, the gas to Europe was stolen.

  10. Ben

    Sorry, honestly don’t know – we do have volunteer mods who try to keep the personal abuse down. I don’t supervise on a comment by comment basis.

  11. technicolour

    7 Mar, 2014 - 10:34 pm

    “Never underestimate KGB officer” – I would always underestimate KGB officer, just for the fun of it. Honestly they’re nothing, compared to the peaceful centre.

  12. Uzbek in the UK

    7 Mar, 2014 - 10:35 pm

    Russian forces stormed Ukrainian base in Sevastopol, Crimea

    Use translate http://lenta.ru/news/2014/03/07/storm/

  13. Uzbek in the UK

    7 Mar, 2014 - 10:40 pm

    Fred

    You can put it this way. Or any other way Mr Putin puts it.

    The fact was that Europeans were left without gas supply for over 2 weeks, while Europeans were paying for gas with no delays. May be Russia needs to diversify its gas delivery to Europe. Or even better let Europeans to diversify their gas supply, from Central Asia for instance? Is this not pure business too, or politics after all?

  14. “You can put it this way. Or any other way Mr Putin puts it.”

    I can just tell it how it is.

    Fact is Russia put the gas for Europe into the pipe.

    Fact is it was syphoned off before it got to it’s destination. Unless you’re suggesting Russia should have put troops into a sovereign state to protect the gas in transit.

    Fact is there was no blockade of European gas by Russia.

    Fact is Europe was not left without gas for two weeks because it was only pipelines through Ukraine that were affected, the pipes through Belarus carried on delivering and Europe only gets a third of their gas from Russia anyway.

    If that interferes with what you want to believe it isn’t my fault.

  15. If Russian backed rebels managed to pull off a coup in Britain then I would imagine a very big majority of Brits would welcome unmarked US troops defending the country, and although I would be rather surprised if we would go so far as to vote to join America, the US could engineer a reverse take over and petition the Crown to resume her head as head of the US, which would kind of legitimise such action. But quite frankly in these circumstances action comes first and legitimacy second.

    Of course I have no evidence of Western or American backing for the Ukrainian coup, but even if there was none the Russian action is still basically an obvious reaction that was pretty much likely to occur. after the coup. Was the coup planned or was it a response. I have no idea as to the extent which these events are partly planned and if so by who / who was the leader planner, whether both sides saw what was coming and gamed it accordingly, nor as to where either see the end game???

  16. At the time I followed the alleged Yushchenko assassination attempt very closely. It was claimed to be by dioxin poisoning. There was never any convincing evidence presented in the media that he even had dioxin in his system. This story was weird from the very beginning. No self respecting assassin would even try to use dioxin in the first place. It is just not that toxic with an LS50 in the grams. The main symptom he displayed was a severe rosacea. This could be caused by dioxin intoxication but it is a symptom with many causes — the most common being excessive alcohol intake over a long period of time.

    Why is Craig so sure it was an assassination attempt and what evidence was there, if it was, that it was done by Russian agents? I suspect excessive dislike of the Russians is affecting his judgement.

  17. Oh come on I can recognise that there is some logic to Russia’s action in the Crimea, but the poisoning of Yushchenko was a pretty obvious case of poisoning.

  18. It appears that Mary’s champion achieved, in just a few posts, what her enemies could not in thousands.

  19. BrianFujisan

    7 Mar, 2014 - 11:57 pm

    Was over at mondoweiss there…

    Some interesting Discussion Re Nuland, her husband and Co…All the Crazy Connections…it’s a Dazzling web indeed… But far from Healthy for Humanity and any kind of peace…any time soon

    Here is part of a post by – Bandolero –

    What could be the overall motive behind all this?

    Quote Clifford A. Kiracofe, former senior professional staff member of the Senate Committee on Foreign Relations:

    “… Western media reported the vulgar remarks concerning the EU by Victoria Nuland, who is US assistant secretary of state for European and Eurasian affairs.

    The media refrained from reporting that Nuland is the wife of Robert Kagan who is a key leader of the pro-Zionist neoconservative policy network.

    It is well known that the staunchly pro-Israel neoconservatives express deep political and cultural aversion to Russia, and promote Cold War perspectives. Such a mindset undermines US global diplomacy and US national interests.
    Thus Ms Nuland is the wrong person for a high US diplomatic position, critics say.

    Using the Ukraine crisis to subvert major power relations between the US and Russia and their constructive joint action in the Middle East serves Israeli interests. It helps Israel and its neoconservative allies in the US and in Europe push for unilateral US military action against Syria and Iran. …”

    And Here is a reply from Annie Robbins, Editor at Large for Mondoweiss

    and robert’s bro is Frederick Kagan married to kimberly kagan president of the Institute for the Study of War, the same institute elizabeth o’bagy worked for. remember her? the ‘expert’ who kerry cited alleging the a jihadist-dominated opposition in syria was ‘moderate’. the same institute pushing us to invade Syria?

    The Full Article includes part of a Putin interview,

    From Time Magazine 2007 “Person of the Year” Interview:

    ” For 15 years, we were selling them energy resources way below the market prices subsidized to the tune of $3 billion to $5 billion a year for Ukraine. This cannot last forever. The Europeans are always criticizing us. They want us to introduce international pricing standards. Otherwise, they say, our enterprises would enjoy an unfair advantage over European enterprises. So within the country we should sell at world prices while to our neighbors we should sell below the world prices? This is discrimination.

    More of this Piece @

    http://mondoweiss.net/2014/03/department-midwives-democracy.html

  20. I’ve no doubt Mary will be back.

    For a year or two i thought i sensed this blog was under concerted Sayanim/troll attack but then it seemed to be that Mary herself was more attacked on a personal basis.

    An ugly tactic-if true.

    Ive been on this blog for 8 years or so and,in my opinion,a year or two back it seemed Habbabkuk and friends invaded this blog and targeted her with personal and unsettling tactics-not points of fact ordiscussion.

    Very sinister.

    She seemed to be under concerted attack from about 8,or more,at once.

    Not nice.

    Which is insane because i’ve never thought of Mary as an anti-Semite at all…just a pro-Palestinian.

    I’ve no doubt Mary will return imminently.

    She is a part of this blog as much as anyone-and i know she doesn’t need my support or backup.

  21. BrianFujisan

    8 Mar, 2014 - 12:28 am

    Well Said Jives…

    Alcanon, and myself expressed our hope that Mary is ok…on Wednesday – over at Alcanon’s Squonk blog….

    But the thing is, Mary has went silent from over there Too… I hope she’s not ill or something.

  22. Uzbek – I heard Dick Cheney accusing Russia of using blackmail and intimidation in its energy policy towards Europe in 2006! Russia is sadly an intimate partner in the Western financial ponzi scheme system with financial assets in the City of London corporation, the dark heart of Britain.

    Capital needed to develop more energy fields (increased consumption has depleted North sea reserves) is raised through Western banks as Russian listed companies on the European stock-exchange, so risking revenue for political ends would be financial suicide. Russia is also dependent on Europe for exports.

    Money rules dude (Russia/Israel energy contract?!!) and commercial suicide would threaten Russia’s existence esp. in these moments before fiat collapse. (start being self-sufficient- it makes sense)

  23. Brian,

    Mary’s emailed me before about squonk stuff so I’ve sent an email to her just to check all is okay. Hope she’s just away for a bit.

    Fred, I cleared your comment over there.

  24. Before retiring I have a question for Uzbek in the UK. The Andijan Massacre was a massacre by government forces upon unharmed protestors by a government which NATO countries, including the UK are happy to support. It is NATO countries too that are supporting the newly-formed and unelected government. It was NATO countries in the run-up to the Iraq War who talked about Saddam’s weapons of mass destruction and a 45 minute delivery capability – all a pack of lies. The Ukraine and Uzbekistan are different countries. The Ukraine has already had several different governments, and a good few of those who have stolen power were in government before and responsible for the terrible economic situation. Karimov has been in dictatorial power for twenty four years. Yanukovich only for four. Think about it.

    Do you trust the the governments that lied over Iraq, have introduced anti-terrorism laws by which people can be imprisoned without trial, extradited, rendered or deported countless Muslims to be telling the truth and interested in the welfare of Ukrainians?

    By the way nobody, as far as I know has posted the link to Michael Andersen’s Massacre in Uzbekistan more than me so I wish you would stop telling people I support it.

    http://www.massacre-in-uzbekistan.com/production.html

  25. BrianFujisan

    8 Mar, 2014 - 12:56 am

    Good stuff Alcanon…

    could be just some mad Techy P.c Trouble.

  26. When people from the Ukrainian SSR travelled to the Baltic states and other Soviet block countries in the 1980s, they invariably reported that the standard of living was better there. After the disintegration of the Soviet block it was evident that the parts of the Soviet empire that had been subjugated more recently were recovering more quickly econimically. There may be complex reasons for this but one explanation popular in the Ukraine is that 80 years of communism is infinitely more destructive than 40 years, to the mentailty of the people. The Baltic states, Poland, Hungary and so on still had many people alive who remembered how a civilised country should function. There were no such people left in Ukraine and the rest of the USSR. If this thesis is right then we cannot conclude that Ukraine integrating more closely with the EU would result in a rapid economic revival similar to what happened in Poland. The results may be disappointing.

  27. Craig,

    Do you think Putin intends to move beyond Crimea?

  28. Craig

    reading your simple narrative bellow
    “Income, lifestyle, education, health and social security for ordinary people are far better in western and central Europe than they are in Russia. The standard of living for ordinary Polish people in Poland has caught up at a tremendous rate towards the rest of the EU. I am not depending on statistics here – I have lived in Poland, travelled widely in Poland and speak Polish. I was professionally involved in the process of Polish economic transformation. There have been a large number of commenters on this blog this last few days who deny that the standard of living for ordinary people in Poland is better as a result of EU membership, and believe life for ordinary people is better in Russia than in the west. “

    I agree that Poland is somewhat better off, although I know many Poles who are less convinced than you. What you present here is a faulty extrapolation of how Ukraine may hypothetically prosper by joining (well not for a long time) the EU while using Poland as an example. Hmm, what a pious thought. What about the other so called “new” EU members? How have Bulgaria, Romania, or the “old” member Greece prospered after joining EU? Have you ever travelled recently anywhere south of Naples? I bet you have not. I am not foolish enough to claim that it is all a fault of EU membership but where is the prosperity??

  29. BrianFujisan

    8 Mar, 2014 - 1:48 am

    An Appeal From the Communist Party of Ukraine (CPU) –

    In an open appeal to international communist, workers’ and left parties, the Communist Party of Ukraine (CPU) warns that their country is the latest to fall victim to the “colour revolutions.”

    Fuelling the escalation of the conflict, says the CPU, is the political support of the Western powers in Ukraine. The U.S. State Department constantly demands that the Ukrainian authorities negotiate with the opposition, withdraw all law enforcement officers from Kiev, and allow the “opposition” to seize the government and reverse laws adopted by the Parliament of Ukraine.

    Contrary to descriptions in the corporate media, these laws are consistent with similar legislation in the West, such as the requirement that public organizations financed from abroad must register as foreign agents. Many western countries have implemented laws to prohibit protesters from hiding their faces, or from using helmets and shields during demonstrations.

    The Communist Party of Ukraine says it believes that “the responsibility for the violence equally rests on Ukraine’s leadership, whose actions forced the people of Ukraine to enter the mass protests, and leaders of the so‑called `opposition’, the ultra‑nationalist militant organizations and foreign politicians who urged people to `radicalize the protests’ and `fight to the bitter end.’”

    The CPU is calling for an end to the use of force, non-interference in the internal affairs of Ukraine, and negotiations to end the conflict. The attempts to create parallel structures of authority, they say, threaten to escalate the conflict into civil war and a division of Ukraine.

    In these circumstances, the Communist Party of Ukraine presents concrete proposals to resolve the situation:

    – Declare a Ukrainian referendum on the definition of foreign economic policy of Ukraine’s integration.

    – Conduct a political reform to eliminate the presidency and install a parliamentary republic, and significantly expand the rights of territorial communities.

    – Return to a proportional voting electoral system.

    – Establish an independent civilian “National control” body with the broadest powers.

    – Conduct judicial reform and introduce the institution of electing judges.

    The CPU also urges international condemnation of extremist actions, fascist propaganda, and external interference in the internal affairs of Ukraine.

    Full Appeal statement @

    http://www.globalresearch.ca/ukrainian-communists-condemn-violence-and-the-us-eu-for-orchestrating-a-coup-with-fascists/5372336

  30. Uzbek in disguise,

    Do you work full time for some NGO intended on bringing democracy to many unfortunate countries thus targeted? I can be wrong but you are neither Uzbek nor in the UK. My guess is that you have been a sleeper for some time recently brought to life by a call from…., well I rather leave this one out.

  31. The ‘gift’ of Crimea to the Ukrainian SSR was not made for obscure reasons. It was done ostensibly to commemorate 300 years of the ‘unification’ of Russia and Ukraine. Scholars of Ukrainian history will know that the deal concluded by Bohdan Hmelnytsky in 1654 at Pereyaslav was indeed a more or less voluntary one, though his options were limited (Poland, Turkey or Russia, take your pick. Attempts at independence would have been extremely short-lived). It did not take long before this ‘union of equals’ was transformed into complete subjugation of Ukraine by Russia. So this was a big deal, the maintenance of the myth. But behind the scenes there was another reality – after the forceful deportation of the Tatars the economy of Crimea was nowhere and a concerted effort to revive it was needed. The agricultural statistics from “Crimean Pravda” tell the story, e.g. average productivity of grain cultures, fruit, tobacco, wine, potatoes etc all fell between 2 and 5 fold in the years after the war. People with agricultural expertise relevant to the southern climate were needed. Water was diverted from Dnieper for irrigation. After the hand-over, the responsibility for economic revival of Crimea belonged to the Ukrainian SSR. The source is here, in Ukrainian: http://www.istpravda.com.ua/articles/2014/03/3/26135/

  32. Perhaps Craig is right and the Russian speaking Ukrainians in the east feel predominantly loyal to Kiev. I know that in my home town in south Ukraine where people often speak Ukrainian in the home and (through habit mostly) Russian in the street, this is the case. But be warned, the ‘cossacks’ you see on TV beating up Pussy Riot girls for simply speaking their minds, etc are the descendants of ethnic Ukrainians who were relocated to the Khanate of Crimea lands by the Russians to protect the southern frontier. These people still sing Ukrainian folk songs, but their allegiances are not with Kiev.

  33. Uzbek in disguise,

    Having noticed your valuable contributions

    “Herbie
    Yes. In fact East Germany (despite being Germany) was one of the least developed eastern block could only be compared to Romania of that time.”

    Excelent news, I must say. Craig will undoubtedly agree with your claim as he among other languages also speaks German. Unfortunately, I have to revise my rather poor opinion of you. You must be member of one of the top class think tanks, could it be Brookings? I read somelaim sit a aions could only be compared to Romania of that time.ut top class inst

  34. Uzbek in disguise,

    have not finished with you yet. My computer is fucked (not by the fuck-EU-Nuland-nudel, I hope) after having visited some really evil sites. So the last sentence should read:

    Having heard somewhere that experts from Brookings can identify what you had for lunch by sniffing your farts, I wonder whether it can be true.

  35. Ukraine apparently needs $15 billion right now, and the EU is kindly willing to lend it, provided the government of Ukraine brings in an austerity package, including cuts to pensions, elimination of jobs, etc.

    But Ukraine’s 13 billionaires have a combined net worth of $61 billion, so why don’t they simply impose a one-time 25% capital tax, and eliminate the deficit at a stroke. They’d still need some austerity to avoid future unpayable deficits, but at least they’d be at a better starting point.

    This proposal will of course horrify the globalists like Craig for whom a global system run by plutocrats is the objective, so I guess the Ukrainians should be looking to Greece and Latvia to understand their own future: i.e., mass emigration of the best and brightest of the younger generation, plus massive unemployment among the rest, while global capital mops up the best waterfront real estate at knock-down prices, etc.

    I wonder though, if shooting demonstrators pour encouragez les autres is seen as an OK way to promote the globalist project, won’t the globalist vision lose some of its lustre? Certainly the revelation that all members of the present government have a “dirty past” according to the foreign minister of Estonia, and that the US spend $5 billion arranging the Kiev coup, according to Vicky Nuland, seems to rob the whole wonderful concept of Western-style democracy of some of its allure.

  36. Black jelly

    8 Mar, 2014 - 4:18 am

    By ToivoS

    “Why is Craig so sure it was an assassination attempt and what evidence was there, if it was, that it was done by Russian agents? I suspect excessive dislike of the Russians is affecting his judgement.”

    Mebbe he hasnt reached the nadir of his love and affection for the callous NWO sniping devils of the Maidan ! The rap artists call it “pussy power”, poor Mordechai Vanunu spent 18 years in jail after being mesmerised by it in Rome.

  37. I don’t share your optimism of centres of concentrated power. Seems historically stupid to wish to see them.

  38. Andrew Nichols

    8 Mar, 2014 - 6:27 am

    Could the real Russian anxiety be less the EU membership than yet another NATO colony on their doorstep? You fail to mention that Gorbachev admin wound up the warsaw Pact peacefully in return for a pledge not to expand NATO eastward. This was not only broken within a year but now Moscow has a missile shield on its borders, which laughably the media swallows as being for defence against Iranian missiles.

    You also dismiss western interference as being no more than catalytic. Really? US$5bn invested in Ukrainian institutions by the supposedly debt ridden USA as revealed by Nuland was just catalytic???
    Disappointed in your article.

  39. I normally applaud the sane comments from Craig on this blog,but I rather think the anti-Putin Western hysteria has gotten to him. Certainly the man is authoritarian and presumably has a violent background from KGB days-and I would certainly not want him as my President!-but clearly 70% of the Russian population do-and it would appear a good percentage of Eastern Ukraine as well! (by the way, Russian unemployment is currently 5%)

    This whole incident is a direct result of Western intelligence, commercial and state entities determined to eliminate any potential for a resurgence of Russian international influence. How many Russian speaking Ukrainians ultimately identify with Kiev rather than Russia is anybody’s guess at this point -I would watch Donestsk for clues…
    The antipathy of many Western Ukrainians to Russia is also very understandable-
    a little history tells us why…
    http://www.newantarctica.com/ukrainian-situation-an-analysis/http://www.newantarctica.com/ukrainian-situation-an-analysis/

  40. Craig. Your piece is nothing but a load of speculative anti-Putin crap. Are you trying to worm your way back into favour with the foreign office – or are you that desperate for money? I cannot believe that you are just stupid and actually believe the garbage put out by the various US MSM stations – maybe you are angling for an interview or a minor position with the Gardian. Pathetic garbage – you have lost it.

  41. Sofia Kibo Noh

    8 Mar, 2014 - 6:48 am

    Dad. 7 38 pm yesterday.

    I agree with 95% of what you wrote.”
    Remember, this is the genius who wishes to solve the wider problem by having the Russian populations of the Baltic states expelled.

    Kurtan. 7 56pm

    “Mobile phone age,reports of troop movements,no restrictions on movement, just approaching bases. If there were large troop movments someone would have recorded them. They haven’t happened.”

    Is it conceivable that the corporate media would miss the propaganda opportunities that such crowd-sourced reports would provide if they existed?

  42. Sofia Kibo Noh

    8 Mar, 2014 - 7:10 am

    Creative suggestions for how to treat Crimea’s secessionists from Kiev’s newly-appointed deputy head of south-eastern Ukraine.

    “This scum should be given promises, guarantees, and any concessions…And hung…They should be hung later.”

    https://www.facebook.com/borys.filatov/posts/603173516431216

  43. Uzbek

    “This is VERY BLOODY low from troll blogger with ribbon of St George and Russia stands for freedom motto.

    “Politkovskaya “murdered by KGB goons”

    Do you question this? Is this also CIA propoganda?”

    Well, that would certainly be their modus operandi, don’t you think? Murder a well known opponent of the public person you want to smear? And it was immediately pinned on Putin in the Western press, before any investigation. That’s a giveaway.

    By the way, I thought Putin was a chessplayer?

  44. Russia transports its gas to Germany through the Nord Stream, into the Opal and Nel pipelines. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/OPAL_pipeline

    These pipelines were constructed to avoid using the Ukraine and Belarus pipelines. Russia, appears to have taken the burden to be a reliable supplier of its gas to Germany. I’m making this point because there have been a few comments that don’t seem to be aware of this fact. I understand (I might be wrong on this) that Gazrprom owns the gas pipelines that go through the Ukraine, but their use is not as important now.

    I think that Russia wants the Crimea because of its strategic military position, especially after “Yats”, as Nuland calls him, stated that he did not want the Crimea to be a Russian base (see Wikepedia Yatsenyuk). I can see Putin being nervous that Russia might lose that piece of real estate after spilling so much blood to secure it during the Crimean War. Taking it now will remove any need for agreements with any Kiev government in the future. I can also see why Russia would want the eastern portion of the Ukraine. Russia would benefit with more arable land. It seems that Russia had designs on the Ukraine, and the EU and the U.S. should have taken that into account. To quote Sun Tzu, “The Art of War.” “We cannot enter into alliances until we are acquainted with the designs of our neighbors.”

  45. One last point. Russia, I think wants what the Ukraine has (geographic position and arable land), while the U.S. and the EU want, as Craig Murray says, to make Russia part of the EU, piece by piece. Russia has the raw materials that Germany and the U.S. want at a cheapest price possible. Nobody is the good guy in the fight for the Ukraine. One thing is clear: the Ukrainians will lose the half price gas they desperately need right now when their coffers are empty. There’s no way the EU can give anything close to that benefit that the Russians are willing to absorb. Not freezing in the winter adds to the standard of living now, not years from now.

  46. Habbabkuk (La vita è bella!

    8 Mar, 2014 - 7:50 am

    Herbie

    Thank you for confirming all the good things I wrote about the Eminences’ new hero-cum-guru Dr Paul Craig Roberts and then adding some.

    Thus:

    “From early 1981 to January 1982, Roberts served as Assistant Secretary of the Treasury”

    and

    “He wrote for the WSJ until 1980”

    And it’s true that he has a doctorate.

    Finally, I’m happy – but somewhat surprised – that you should see his erstwhile fellowship at the Cato Institute (look it up!) as a feather in his cap and an earnest of the soundness of his views on political economy. You’re progressing!

  47. Habbabkuk (La vita è bella!

    8 Mar, 2014 - 7:59 am

    Hi Glenn_uk

    “It appears that Mary’s champion achieved, in just a few posts, what her enemies could not in thousands.”
    ____________________

    Would you agree that this – if it is fact the reason for Mary’s “disappearance – demonstrates the dangers of posters taking our host and his considered opinions for granted?

    Would be happy, btw, to see more posts from you.

  48. Habbabkuk (La vita è bella!

    8 Mar, 2014 - 8:09 am

    Evgueni (01h23)

    I would agree with what you say and also with your conclusion. However, although the process will – for the reasons you point to – take longer than it did for Poland, I think Ukraine would get there in the end…if allowed to.

    An important factor in this crisis seems to be Kremlin fear of the “contagion effect” on Russia and its people: the prospect of a former part of the USSR (as opposed to Poland, which was only an unwilling part of the Soviet Empire – achieving a higher standard of democracy and well-being must be deeply troubling for the Kremlin.

  49. Craig, I would appreciate it if you could provide a link for a single “uprising” against the Ukranian government in the east. One that garnered more than a few people. By gvernment, I mean the one that existed before the western engineered, neo-fascist led coup d’etat. I have heard of just a couple of “gatherings” in the East. may be not enough of the “Right sector” and “svoboda” types there?

    I realize you don’t like oligarchs. So what do you think when the so-called new regime (cf. coup installed) has as one of its first acts, the isntallation of oligarchs (one not even residing in the Ukraine) as “governors”? quite confidence inspiring, and oh so brilliant. Almost as brilliant as having a western favored oligarch as the new “president”, and a cuddly IMF favorite as the prime whatever (“minister” i think they call it).

    Sorry to see you so anti-Russian (yes, I know you’ll say it’s just Putin, but Putin IS what the Russians wanted, and for a good reason – they were under the reign on that yeltsiin idiot robbed blind by the lovable “west” and their own nouveau riche oligarchs. Some were kicked out, some imprisoned, and some are still around. what else is new? and how is this different than the West especially the US where the top 1% own over 40% of the wealth?).

    Just saying.

  50. Habbabkuk (La vita è bella!

    8 Mar, 2014 - 8:27 am

    Karel – who seems well acquainted with Craig’s travel history – writes:

    “I agree that Poland is somewhat better off, although I know many Poles who are less convinced than you. What you present here is a faulty extrapolation of how Ukraine may hypothetically prosper by joining (well not for a long time) the EU while using Poland as an example. Hmm, what a pious thought. What about the other so called “new” EU members? How have Bulgaria, Romania, or the “old” member Greece prospered after joining EU?”
    __________________

    1/. Poland is a lot better off than “somewhat”, I think.

    2/. Could you explain in more detail why you think Craig’s “extrapolation” is faulty in your opinion?

    3/. Conditions – including economic – in Bulgaria and Romania are improving, but the process takes time. If you like, take Austria as an example – it was still a relatively poor country well into the 1960s but look at it now.

    4/. The other EU member state you mention is Greece. I don’t know if you followed Greece since the fall of the dictatorship, but anyone who did – including by actually visiting the country – could not have failed to notice the astonishing improvement in living standards and prosperity until the recent crash. As evidenced, inter alia, by the very steep decline in the number of people emigrating for economic reasons.

  51. tell the truth

    8 Mar, 2014 - 8:55 am

    Zionists don’t like Dr. Paul Craig Roberts, reason, he tells the truth about Israel.

    http://www.paulcraigroberts.org/2014/03/05/tom-watching-israel-commits-genocide-gaza/

  52. Sofia Kibo Noh

    8 Mar, 2014 - 9:31 am

    You couldn’t make it up.

    US President Barack Obama has signed an executive order authorizing sanctions against “individuals and entities responsible for activities undermining democratic processes or institutions in Ukraine.”…YES WE CAN!

    http://news.msn.com/us/obama-west-wont-let-kremlin-carve-up-ukraine

  53. Habbabkuk (La vita è bella!

    8 Mar, 2014 - 9:39 am

    “Zionists don’t like Dr. Paul Craig Roberts, reason, he tells the truth about Israel.”
    ________________________

    Fair enough, it’s a free country. Ron Paul likes Paul Craig Roberts though, and Paul Craig Roberts is quite a fan of Ron Paul. Hmmmm….

    Anyway, let’s stay on topic, shall we?

  54. This is off-topic but relates in some way to the question I asked Uzbek in the UK in my last comment. Who are the liars?

    http://neonnettle.com/news/211-ex-cia-pilot-gives-sworn-testimony-that-no-planes-hit-the-twin-towers#.UxXRUAhgiZQ.facebook

  55. @Prabhata,

    “Russia transports its gas to Germany through the Nord Stream.” Maybe the aim of the zios is to ensure that Germany should never again have access to gas in case they misuse it.

  56. Not funny Clarence.

  57. Habbabkuk (La vita è bella!

    8 Mar, 2014 - 10:27 am

    Do commenters feel that it would be a good idea if OSCE observer teams were allowed into the Crimea in the run-up to, and during, the forthcoming referendum?

  58. @John Goss,

    Thank you for tour link.

    I am not a young man and happily went along with events as they were reported. I considered myself moderately right wing economically and left wing socially. I was content to read the Spectator weekly and the Guardian daily to keep up to date; and of course I believed everything I saw on BBC (or ABC since I emigrated).

    The events of – and especially the reporting of – 9/11 changed everything. My eyes were opened. All we are told now is spin and lies, and once you realise that you begin to check out past historical events, particularly wartime reporting. All is propaganda I soon discovered. It is difficult to go into more detail in a blog message but please take the courage to check all of the facts, especially historical “facts” that are proscribed without risking legal pursuit, at least in Europe. I truly was utterly shocked, considering how I was brought up (? brainwashed) in post-war Scotland.

    It is sad for me to see that Craig has apparently relapsed and now believes the current spin. Maybe Putin fucked his wife or something.

  59. @ John Goss,

    It was not a joke and not intended to be funny. Just sad, so sad, and not much different from a sad clown, not really funny.

  60. Clarence I am not young either. 9/11, together with the legitimacy of government in the Ukraine and the murder of Mark Duggan, are among the very few issues on which Craig and I disagree. I would not insult him or make nasty comments about his wife however frustrated I am. I think you should apologise for that.

    While you and I share common ground over 9/11 and the Ukraine I think it is important that respect is shown to others. After all we are allowed to comment here largely without restriction and I think especially that people who share my ideas should show respect to those who don’t because otherwise we are unlikely to win over public opinion.

    Otherwise I’m with you, and have recently changed my own opinion in now believing that an independent Scotland is the way forward. Perhaps the rest of us can learn from it.

  61. Russkies are a proud tribe, bright, educated and funny, with a long history centred somewhere around Kiev, Novgorod and Vladimir/Moscow, a world-class literature and a well-recognised love for the arts. Whenever I’ve met one I’ve usually liked ’em and I urge anybody who reads these scribblings to take that prejudice into account. One way or another, then, I’m sure that Mr. Murray is right when he says that Russia is a member of the European family.

    However, I am not sure why that would automatically make membership of the E.U. desirable – after all, it doesn’t for Norway or Switzerland.

    Then there is the factor of Russian nationalism – one which isn’t attenuated by playing geopolitical games with them and trying to hem them into a corner – albeit a very large one. Mr. Murray has also mentioned some rather unpleasant domestic aspects of Russian nationalism; do we want to incorporate that into our nice little family?

    E.U. membership would also mean that the Fourth Reich extended from Kerry to Vladivostok and no doubt took in Ukraine and Moldova and quite possibly Georgia and Armenia as well. At what point does all this become unmanageable? There would be a fairly porous border with the ‘stans’ of Central Asia as well. Remember, too, the disputed border with China in the far east – a large and expanding population on one side and a sparse population on the other. I think we’d be safer leaving that one to Moscow and Peking to sort out.

    I think it is worth factoring in to this equation the fact that fossil fuels and certain natural resources are running out quite quickly. That means that our current idea of economic “advancement” upon which many programmes are implicitly predicated are completely unsustainable. In a hundred years, people could look back on us as we look back on World War One and wonder what the blazes we thought we were playing at.

  62. Ok John,

    I duly do apologise to Craig – although I think he is very wrong on this I have no idea as to his thoughts or motives. But is still a sad day when such a noble man starts defending the MSM/NATO crap.

    As to your post, please keep the pressure on by repeated links, and please do consider looking into the WWII lies and exaggerations,particularly if 9/11 is shown to be a nuclear event, See:
    http://donaldfox.wordpress.com/

  63. “And European Union will never be complete until Russia, one of the greatest of European cultures, is a member.”

    This statement I agree with, it is the means in which it is being done that is wrong. In a way I think up to this crisis Putin was going about democratising Russia to make it compatible with the better-governed western-European countries in the right way. To suddenly bring it all the benefits of the west: massive unemployment, unpayable debts, destruction of press freedom, war and the stealing of resources, all at once it is being done gradually. I don’t like the new UK. I can remember when public utilities were nationalised, when bills rose in line with erarnings, and bankers were not payed enormous bonuses for destroying economies. If the change was too sudden in Russia people would think back to the days when there were no university fees, public transport was affordable, everybody had work, and so on. To force the issue is only likely to raise the hackles of the Russian government.

    Why I believe it necessary that Russi “one of the greatest of European cultures” should be a member of the European Union is because we need a huge power block to oppose the imperialist aims of the United States. But we also need to get rid of the Neo-cons and Zionists that have ruined Europe.

  64. Clarence thanks. Here is something that everybody who does not believe that the twin towers is a false flag should watch. It is 45 minutes long, but well worth watching.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RAAztWC5sT8

  65. “There has been a coup d’etat in the Ukraine”

    “According to Wimmer, the intention of the US in the Ukraine is to split Europe one more time.”

    By Lars Schall

    http://www.larsschall.com/2014/03/07/there-has-been-a-coup-detat-in-the-ukraine/

  66. Someone 8 Mar, 2014 – 7:45 am

    The NYT article you link to seems to be behind a paywall. The first half is mostly about how the naughty UK is not supporting the brave US in sanctions against Russia. Here’s the second half. Pretty funny coming from the NYT but undeniably has the ring of truth:

    Tony Blair is the latter-day embodiment of pirate Britain’s Sir Walter Raleigh. The former prime minister now advises the Kazakh ruler Nursultan Nazarbayev on his image in the West. Mr. Blair is handsomely paid to tutor his patron on how to be evasive about the crackdowns and the mine shootings that are facts of life in Kazakhstan.

    This is Britain’s growth business today: laundering oligarchs’ dirty billions, laundering their dirty reputations.

    It could be otherwise. Banking sanctions could turn off the financial pipelines through which corrupt officials channel Russian money. Visa restrictions could cut Kremlin ministers off from their mansions. The tax havens that rob the national budget of billions could be forced to be accountable. Britain has the power to bankrupt the Putin clique.

    But London has changed. And the Shard — the Qatari-owned, 72-floor skyscraper above the grotty Southwark riverside — is a symbol of that change.

    The Shard encapsulates the new hierarchy of the city. On the top floors, “ultra high net worth individuals” entertain escorts in luxury apartments. By day, on floors below, investment bankers trade incomprehensible derivatives.

    Come nightfall, the elevators are full of African cleaners, paid next to nothing and treated as nonexistent. The acres of glass windows are scrubbed by Polish laborers, who sleep four to a room in bedsit slums. And near the Shard are the immigrants from Lithuania and Romania, who broke their backs on construction sites, but are now destitute and whiling away their hours along the banks of the Thames.

    The Shard is London, a symbol of a city where oligarchs are celebrated and migrants are exploited but that pretends to be a multicultural utopia. Here, in their capital city, the English are no longer the ones calling the shots. They are hirelings.

  67. “Craig’s version of events may be true but it omits a key factor from Russia’s point of view – NATO.

    Since the collapse of the Soviet Union, the Kremlin has suspected that NATO (ie the US) was determined to move its forces ever closer to the Russian border in order to maximize its military and political leverage over Moscow.

    Who can blame them? The world is dominated by an imperial power to an extent hitherto unknown in human history, and that power has been intent on “containing” Russia and China – its only potential rivals – for the past 70 years. Would British “leaders” have reacted differently in the same circumstances, given that Obama was pressing Kiev to permit NATO military exercises in Ukraine?

    (By the way, it may be satisfying to compare Putin’s actions to those of Hitler in the 1930s, but it doesn’t get us anywhere. The US invaded Mexico in the 1840s and annexed much of what is now the American West, to the enduring chagrin of the Mexicans. Britain spent much of the past 200 years invading, occupying and despoiling places all over the world. By these standards, Putin has committed an unfortunate indiscretion).”

    Andy’s commentary above is a necessary corrective to Murray’s otherwise informative piece. In my view, Murray’s analysis didn’t give sufficient attention to what I regard as ‘the elephant in the room’ relating to overriding American geostrategic imperatives.

    It’s worth remembering that this crisis would not have happened had the United States not ingratiated itself in the sovereign affairs of the democratically elected government of Yanukovych in the first place.

    Victoria Nuland’s notorious “fuck the EU” phone call leaked last month, in which she can be heard laying down the shape of a post-Yanukovych government – much of which was then turned into reality when he was overthrown after the escalation of violence a couple of weeks later – has been missing from almost every mainstream analysis. One of the few exceptions was Seamus Milne’s excellent piece in the Guardian:

    http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2014/mar/05/clash-crimea-western-expansion-ukraine-fascists

  68. John,

    Thanks for the video link. I have only watched 10 minutes but have bookmarked it and will watch it all soon.

    As a good site documenting the oligarth looting of Russia under Yeltsin (with the advice of Rubin and Harvard ‘economists’), have a look at the archives here:

    vineyardsaker.blogspot.com

  69. “I believe Russia’s incursion put a temporary hold on an emerging-market meltup, but that we are extremely close to a runaway move given several inter-market relationships that are screaming.”

    http://www.marketwatch.com/story/the-mother-of-all-crises-2014-03-06?dist=countdown

    “Fed’s Plosser ‘very worried’ about QE consequences”

    http://www.cnbc.com/id/101467489

  70. Thread is apparently no longer accepting my posts.

  71. @Black Jelly,

    No need to speculate on Satanic movements (or even Jackie’s). Just read:

    http://www.amazon.com/Final-Judgment-Missing-Assassination-Conspiracy/dp/0974548405

  72. BrianFujisan

    8 Mar, 2014 - 12:35 pm

    Sofia @ 9;31 Re Santions….

    Obama has just announced the same trick in

    Washington Sanctioning the World: US Government Threatens Sanctions against Venezuelan Officials

    http://www.globalresearch.ca/sanctioning-the-world-the-us-government-threatens-sanctions-against-venezuelan-officials/5372339

  73. BrianFujisan

    8 Mar, 2014 - 12:36 pm

    Sheeeesh.. Sanctions…..

  74. BrianFujisan

    8 Mar, 2014 - 12:40 pm

    oooppps…Sanctions

  75. “Russia Calls European Formulas for Ukraine Unacceptable”

    http://www.plenglish.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=2450881&Itemid=1

  76. Trowbridge,

    Not that I know of – comments with too many links get blocked, could that be it?

    I have however deleted a second “Black Jelly” comment for referring to “yids” and banned his IP address, though doubtless he will pop up again.

  77. Someone, your link gives me a forbidden message. Might be important then.

  78. Clarence,

    The comment about the evolution of your thought was fascinating. I went through a similar process myself. Except I missed the bit where I had to believe that anybody who was anti-western, no matter how vicious, corrupt and dictatorial, was a hero. Where did you pick that up from?

  79. Not a hero, Craig. Just less bad and not entirely fixated on money. Might even mention the word ethics but that might be straying too far.

  80. Bye the bye, Craig, when you say that you went through a similar process yourself (ie as mine, which, as I stated, was entirely illuminated by the 9/11 lies and false press coverage), how can you then continue to support the US government conspiracy theory about a few arab hijackers with box cutters being able to evade the multibillion dollar security complex and then to destroy the twin towers with nuclear weapons*?
    *http://donaldfox.wordpress.com/2013/04/20/mystery-solved-the-wtc-was-nuked-on-911/

  81. John Goss, 8 Mar, 2014 – 12:49 pm

    If this is the link you are referring to ?

    http://www.plenglish.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=2450881&Itemid=1

    It works OK for me!.

    It is strange that you have said the above!, I too have had “a forbidden message” on some sites.

  82. Someone, that’s the one. Often if you are in a certain location links are stopped. Like people in the US can watch the film about the UK’s assassination of Princess Diana, but we can’t in the UK. Are you in the US? Australia? It is governments I think that decide what can and cannot be watched in their countries. I expect it’s the same in Russia.

  83. Resident Dissident

    8 Mar, 2014 - 1:43 pm

    “In a way I think up to this crisis Putin was going about democratising Russia to make it compatible with the better-governed western-European countries in the right way.”

    Could we have some evidence to support this statement?

  84. Resident Dissident

    8 Mar, 2014 - 1:46 pm

    John Goss

    Since you, like myself, regard the privatisation of utilities, as a retrograde step you might find the linked a good place to start on Putin’s record of democratising Russia

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Privatization_in_Russia

  85. Res Des, I agree it’s immoral and produced all the oil-rich oligarchs that are funding the mafia in the Ukraine. I do agree it should be state-owned and prices should be kept down. Nobody owns our natural resources. But would you want it to return to the Soviet days?

  86. Resident Dissident

    8 Mar, 2014 - 1:56 pm

    John Goss

    I am not letting you go so easily you said “up to this crisis Putin was going about democratising Russia to make it compatible with the better-governed western-European countries in the right way”. Now please support or withdraw the statement.

  87. Resident Dissident

    8 Mar, 2014 - 2:08 pm

    I must say that I agree almost entirely with Craig’s statement – especially the part about Russia becoming part of Europe. Ukranians, Russians, Poles and other Slavs should not be separated from each other as their similarities are much greater than their differences – but also I do not want the Slavs to be split off from the rest of Europe – we have tried than and it doesn’t work. I do believe that the EU needs to be reformed if it is to become a true European Union but like Craig I do support the ideal – and I recognise that one of the main barriers to its achievement is the corrupt autocracy that currently operates in Moscow.

    I might also add that the attacks on Craig are in extremely poor taste and just illustrate my previous observation as to how cults usually direct their greatest hatred towards those who they consider to be apostates. I also note how certain individuals have crawled out from under their stones and we have a number of new visitors who are more than willing to accuse Craig and others as being in the pay of the Great Western Conspiracy or similar – all I can say to those individuals is that perhaps they are revealing themselves by the nature of their accusations.

  88. John Goss,8 Mar, 2014 – 1:37 pm

    This is strange!, I tried the link after your post “8 Mar, 2014 – 12:49 pm”, the link worked, I have just tried it again and it comes up “Forbidden”!.

  89. Someone I am intrigued to know what it says. A precis will do.

    Res Des @ 1:56 p.m. You cannot deny that democratic advances have taken place. This article contains some. However it is incidental to the blog and I am now on the next thread.

    http://www.russiaotherpointsofview.com/2013/09/shoots-of-democracy-survive-in-putins-russia.html

  90. I enjoyed your link Someone (George?) ‘London’s Laundry Business’ – interestingly my great-grandfather, John Benjamin was from Southwark; a ‘waterman’ who ferried ‘toffs’ returning to the City of London after they had ‘entertained’ themselves in the ‘red light’ areas of Southwark. The ‘entertainment’ was so good the City acquired control of Southwark appointing a bailiff and steward to ensure compliance else feel free to enjoy the ‘hospitality’ of Southwark prison.

  91. John Goss,

    Go to….”Russia Calls European Formulas for Ukraine Unacceptable” in the link below, click on, you still get “Forbidden”, weird!.

    http://www.plenglish.com/

  92. “Someone I am intrigued to know what it says. A precis will do.”

    John Goss, I have another source!, here is the article.

    “Russia Calls European Formulas for Ukraine Unacceptable

    embajador-vladimir-chizhov.jpg

    Moscow, Mar 7 (Prensa Latina) The Russian ambassador to the European Union (EU), Vladimir Chizhov, called the language in a document released for the EU Summit regarding the crisis in Ukraine, as “unacceptable and unjust.”

    Warning that Moscow would not be intimidated by the language and threats of sanctions, the diplomat pointed out that the formulas included in the statements of Herman Van Rompuy, president of the European Council, are inconsistent with the insistence that negotiations and dialogue are the only way to resolve the crisis.

    Chizhov stressed that just like at the meeting of EU foreign ministers, the Councilâ�Ös document advises the freezing of visas and the suspension of negotiations on a new accord regarding this issue as well as the preparations for the G-8 Summit in Sochi.

    The diplomat recalled that in regard to the visas and negotiations for an exemption between Russia and the EU, talks have been at a standstill for quite some time.

    He indicated that the only new element in the European position was the attempt to divide the agreement on association with Ukraine, the deferment of which provoked the disturbances that ended with the forced toppling of Ukraineâ�Ös elected president, Viktor Yanukovich.

    The ambassador explained that now, in order for the EU to show its support for the current illegitimate authorities in Ukraine, it had decided to sign the political part of the document with them.

    “I should like to point out that the total volume of the text is more than a thousand pages. The substantive section, dealing with the economy, should wait until after elections that would allow for the formation of a more legitimate Government, or at least, one that is more responsible,” concluded Chizhov.

    Russia insists that President Yanukovich, toppled by a violation of the agreement drafted between him, opposition leaders, and representatives from German, France and Poland on February 21, is the sole legitimate authority in Ukraine.

    The agreement provided for troop withdrawal as a way to de-escalate the conflict, the formation of a national coalition government, and constitutional reform, as well as elections to be held in September, instead of by year end.

    When Yanukovich complied with the first part, withdrawing troops, extremists swept in and overtook the Parliament and presidential offices, revoking his mandate, restoring the 2004 Constitution from the “Orange Revolution” and beginning a campaign to settle scores.

    Despite this illegal behavior, the U.S. and its European allies recognized the new rulers in Kiev as legitimate and even went so far as to invite the new designated Prime Minister, Arseny Yatseniuk, to the EU Summit in Brussels.

    sus/sa/tjg/jpm Modificado el ( viernes, 07 de marzo de 2014 )”

    http://www.plenglish.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=2450881&Itemid=1

  93. Thanks Someone, I guessed it must be pretty damning for a Forbidden notice. No wonder! So in essence the Polish, German and French signatures on a document mean absolutely nothing. What happened to integrity? Even Craig would agree I’m sure that this is a gross flouting of international law.

    Vladimir Chizhov and the Russians are the only ones who have behaved honourably in this affair.

  94. Habby

    The whole point about Paul Craig Roberts is that he was one of yours, an insider, but now he’s telling the truth about how the whole thing has turned to madness, corruption and general turd.

    You’re still in denial.

    Meanwhile, here’s his latest:

    http://www.paulcraigroberts.org/2014/03/07/jobs-economy-prospects-peace-life-paul-craig-roberts/

  95. Herbie; Roberts is an apostate revealing himself by the nature of his accusations. :)

  96. Absolutely Ben. I was going to highlight that rather ironic comment of Res Diss, but it’s clearly way above his head.

    Whooshhhh…

  97. “Even Craig would agree I’m sure that this is a gross flouting of international law.”

    No, it isn’t illegal. It’s just nasty, sneaky, dirty, underhand and a damn good reason not to trust them and for Russia to not withdraw troops.

Powered By Wordpress | Designed By Ridgey | Produced by Tim Ireland | Hosted In The Cloud