World Domination

by craig on May 3, 2014 3:58 pm in Uncategorized

Add together the cities of Donetsk, Kharkiv and Lugansk and you don’t reach the economic output of Dundee.  World domination it isn’t.  Unfortunately both in the Kremlin and on Capitol Hill they, and their satraps, think it is.  Neither side cares at all about the millions of ordinary people in the zone of potential conflict.

The spiral of death in Ukraine is very worrying.  Following the tragic deaths in Odessa, the ball is very much in Putin’s court.  His bluff has very much been called.  We will now learn whether he was stoking clashes in Eastern Ukraine and massing forces on his border in order to give a pretext for invasion – which pretext he now has – or in order to destabilize and intimidate Kiev into moving away from relationships with the EU.

This has been a discussion of the deaf even more within intellectual circles in the West than between Washington and the Kremlin, where at least the Machiavellians understand full well what they are doing.  But their followers either, on the one hand, deny that there are any far right elements on the Ukrainian side or any CIA assistance, or alternatively deny that there are many millions of ordinary Ukrainians who genuinely want to be at peace in their own country and move towards the EU.  They either claim that all the separatists are Russian agents and deny the genuine minority population which yearns for the Soviet Union or Russia, or they deny the existence of Russian agents and special forces in Ukraine, and that most of the Russian nationalists are every bit as right wing and appalling as the equivalent tendency on the Ukrainian side.

First, some history.  The Ukrainian people really do exist.  They have been a subjugated people for centuries, most lastingly by the great Polish-Lithuanian  Empire and then by the Russian Empire.  That does not mean they did not exist.  Consider this: until 1990 there had not been an independent Polish state for over two hundred years, except for a fleeting twenty years between the two world wars.  Yet nobody doubts the Poles are a real nation.  I shan’t start on Scotland again …

None of modern Ukraine was Russian until the 18th century, when the expansion of the Russian empire and decline of the Polish took in these new colonies. As Putin famously remarked, it was called New Russia.  Yes, Vladimir, note it was New.  That is because it was a colony. Just like New York.  Because it was called New Russia gives you no more right to it than the Channel Islands have to New Jersey.  Ukraine had been Russian seven hundred years before its 18th century reconquest, but that population had migrated to Muscovy.

The expansion of the Russian Empire was exactly contemporary with the expansion of the British and American Empires, and other bit players like the French.  Like most of the American, most of the Russian Empire was a contiguous land mass.  The difference between the Russian and British Empires, on the one hand, and the American Empire on the other, was that the Russians and British did not commit genocide of the existing populations.  The difference between the Russian and the British Empires is that the British gave almost all of theirs back in the post-colonial period (a process that needs to be urgently completed). Russia gave back much of her Empire at the fall of the Soviet Union, but still retained a very great deal more than the British.  It is to me inarguable that, in a historical perspective, Putin is attempting to recover as much of the Russian Empire as possible, including but by no means solely by the annexation of Crimea and his actions in Ukraine.

Crimea, incidentally, had maintained its own independent existence as the last remnant of the Mongol Horde right up until the 19th century.  Despite the Russian colonisation of Crimea in the 19th century, it still had a majority Tatar population until the 1940’s, when Stalin tried his hand at genocide on them.  The Tatars were branded Nazis.  Opponents of the Russian Empire are always “Nazis” or “Jihadists”.  The deportation of the Tatars from Crimea was only twenty years before the British did the same genocide to a smaller people in Diego Garcia.  I call for the restitution of both.  Those who call for the restitution of one and not the other are appalling hypocrites.

Equally hypocritical are those who call for a referendum on Russian union for East Ukraine, but not for referenda on independence for Dagestan and Chechnya.  It is an irony insufficiently noted, that in Russia to call or campaign for the separation of any part of the state is a crime punishable by up to 22 years’ imprisonment.  There are over 7,000 people from the Caucasus imprisoned under that law.

There is absolutely no movement among the large minority Russians of the Baltic States to rejoin Mother Russia, because living conditions in the EU are just so much better.  As I have blogged before, it is undeniably true that living conditions for ordinary people in Poland have vastly improved as a result of EU membership, and are much better than in Ukraine – or Russia.

GDP per capita figures for Russia look quite good, but do not give a true reflection of living standards because of astonishing levels of inequality of wealth.  This is very bad in the West, and getting much worse rather rapidly, but is nowhere near as bad as in Russia which is the most viciously capitalist state in the world, made worse by its commodity dependency.  The Russian economy is completely non-diversified, manufacturing and services are miniscule and it is overwhelmingly a raw commodity exporter in energy, metals, grain etc.  That leads to extreme concentration of profit and a lack of employment opportunity.  Combine that with mafia state corruption and you have the oligarchs’ paradise.  Russia is a gangster state.  On top of which, if I were a Russian who campaigned against the Russian government in the same way that I do against  my own, I would be dead.

The desire of ordinary Ukrainians to join the EU one day, and move closer to it now, is understandable and indeed commendable.  It was also the desire of Yanukovich.  Those who claim Western pressure on Yanukovich forget – or choose to ignore – that Yanukovich’s government had actually, quite independently and voluntarily, negotiated the EU co-operation agreement and were on the point of signing it, when Yanukovich was summoned to Moscow by Putin and informed that if they signed the agreement, the energy supplies to Ukraine would immediately be cut off in mid-winter and debt called in.

That is a fact.  It was not illegal for Putin to do that; it was perhaps even legitimate for those who believe in a Machiavellian approach to great power politics.  Yanukovich temporized, between a rock and a hard place.  Ukraine seemed to be at a key moment of  balance, hung between the EU and Russia. The capital being in West Ukraine and overwhelmingly ethnic Ukrainian, pro-EU crowds started to build up.  Then things started to get wildly out of control.

Were western governments encouraging pro-western groups in Ukraine?  Yes, that’s their job.  Did this include covert support? Yes.  Were the Russians doing precisely the same thing with their supporters?  Yes, that’s their job too.  Did the Americans spend 5 billion dollars on covert support?  Of course not.

Victoria Nuland claimed in a speech America had put 5 billion dollars into Ukraine.  I used to write those kind of speeches for British ministers.  First you take every bit of money given by USAID to anything over a very long period, remembering to add an estimate for money given to international projects including Ukraine.  Don’t forget to add huge staff costs and overheads, then something vast for your share of money lent by the IMF and EBRD, then round it up well.  I can write you a speech claiming that Britain has given five billion dollars to pretty well anywhere you claim to name.

The problem is that both the left and right have again, equal but opposite motives for believing Nuland’s bombast about the extent of America’s influence on events.  I have been in this game.  You can’t start a revolution in another country.  You can affect it at the margins.

A military coup you certainly can start.  One thing we don’t really know nearly enough about is what happened at the end, when Yankovich had to flee.  The Maidan protestors would never have caused a government to fall which retained full control of its army.  The army can fail the rulers in two ways.  First is a revolutionary movement among normal soldiers – the French revolution model.  Second is where the troops remain disciplined but follow their officers in a military coup.  The latter is of course a CIA speciality.  More evidence is needed, but if this is the second model, it is unusual for it not to result in military control of government.  Egypt is the obvious current example of a CIA backed coup.

After Yanukovich we had entered the world domination game.  Putin seemed to have lost.  The annexation of Crimea was a smart move by Putin in that game, because there probably is a genuine small majority of the population there who would like to join Russia.  I have no doubt whatsoever that Putin himself does not believe the 93% for a moment.  As I said, the Machiavellian players of world domination are realistic; it is their purblind followers on either side who buy their propaganda.

The Kiev government and the West should have conceded Crimea before Putin moved his troops into it.  The sensible thing for the new Kiev government to have done would have been to offer a referendum in Crimea itself, under its own auspices.  That would have got the most hardline pro-Russian voters out of the country for good. But by that time, everyone had gone into Macho mode, which is where we still are.

None of the remaining provinces would opt to join Russia given the choice.  There is no shortage of existing and historic opinion poll evidence on that.   Crimea was the only province with an ethnic Russian majority.  The Eastern provinces have Russian speaking majorities, but most are ethnic Ukrainian. I base ethnicity here purely on self-identification in census (and, as I have repeatedly explained, absolutely everybody in the former Soviet Union knows precisely what is asked in the questions of Gradzvanstvo and Narodnosch). Just as some Welsh people speak English, some Ukrainians speak Russian but do not consider themselves Russian.  Putin’s frequent references to the Russian-speaking peoples coming back to Russia are as sinister as if we started talking of re-uniting all the English speaking people in the world.

As almost always with colonies, the minority ethnic Russian populations in the East of Ukraine are more concentrated in urban areas.  Hence it has been possible in regional capitals to mobilise gangs of disaffected and unemployed Russian young men (in view of Ukraine’s basket case economy there are plenty), and with a slight stiffening of Russian forces take control of town centres.  There is a significant minority, and possibly a majority in town centres, willing to support.  It is, I think, extremely important to understand that the thugs on both sides are very unpleasant.  I have the particular experience of relations with a lot of Uzbeks, and the incidence of racial attacks by Russian nationalist thugs within Russia itself is absolutely horrifying and almost completely unreported.  The swastika is a popular symbol among young macho men throughout all of former Eastern Europe including Russia.  I absolutely guarantee you that an equally significant proportion of the pro-Russians who have been attacking anyone who tries to show support for Ukraine within Eastern Ukrainian cities, are no more and no less right wing, racist and vicious than the appalling Pravy Sektor thugs included on the other side.  We have plenty within the EU – there is a serious problem, for example, with the official encouragement given to commemorations of pro-Nazi forces within the Baltic states which often have a distinctly neo-Nazi tinge.

Putin’s campaign of controlling the urban centres appears to have gone wrong in Odessa, which is simply too large for the numbers of available young men armed with baseball bats to take control.  The pro-Russians were badly beaten in precisely the same street fighting they had been winning elsewhere.  The culmination of this was the terrible fire and deaths. My expectation is there will not be many women, children or old people among the dead, but also there will not be many non-Ukrainian nationals.  I expect these will prove to have been local Russian young men.

Putin now has a real problem.  His own rhetoric has indicated that he will sweep in and defend these Russians, but there is one thing anyone with half a brain should have worked out by now.  The ruling 1%, the ultra-wealthy, in both Russia and the West are so interconnected with each other that they are playing the game of world domination while trying at the same time to make sure nobody super-rich really loses his money.  Hence the strange obviously bogus sanctions regimes. Real stock market disruption and confiscation of corrupt assets would be difficult to avoid if the tanks start rolling in earnest.  We may be saved from utter disaster by the sheer scale of global corruption, which is a strange conclusion.

I would like to think the awful deaths of the last few days would lead both sides to step back from the brink.  The time has come for a peacekeeping force.  Negotiations should be held urgently to make the Kiev interim government more inclusive of opposition elements from the East – and they must oust the far right at the same time.  The UN Security Council should then send in UN peacekeepers, which must include both Russian and western forces in close integration, to keep the peace while genuine elections are held.  I can see no other way forward which does not risk disaster.

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  1. ‘None of the remaining provinces would opt to join Russia given the choice.’

    Hmm, agree with most of your analysis, despite its shaky ground and changing facts, except for Transnistria, a smidgeon of a strip country next to Moldova which is yearning to be in the Russian fold again.


    3 May, 2014 - 4:37 pm

    Craig; If global avarice is the only hope, should we be concerned about how Western influence might profit from Putin’s demise? Surely they have economic interests which fall on one side and not the other?

  3. Craig,

    Odessa not Donetsk was where the 40 or so died inside the Trades Union building.

    Here’s the Russian version

    Odessa slaughter: How vicious mob burnt Ukraine anti-govt activists alive

    Dozens of people died in flames in Odessa, when radicals set ablaze the local House of Trade Unions with anti-government protesters blocked inside. The city is now in mourning for those who died, suffocated in smoke or had to jump out of windows.

    What triggered the tragedy were violent clashes, which erupted on Friday afternoon between two rival rallies in Ukraine’s port-city of Odessa.

    Around 1,500 supporters of the Kiev authorities, accompanied by aggressive fans of the local football club, Chernomorets, tried to march through the center of the city chanting “Glory to Ukraine,” “Death to enemies,” “Knife the Moskals [derogatory for Russians].” Some of the people in the group were wearing ultra-nationalist Right Sector movement insignia, were armed with chains and bats and carried shields.

    Several hundred anti-government activists eventually confronted the procession. Fighting broke out as a result, with members of the rival groups throwing stones, Molotov cocktails and smoke grenades at each other and at police. The pavements were spattered with blood.

    Neither side is “innocent” but watching the scenes live yesterday was disturbing. Only the Ukrainian Fire Brigade came out of this looking good. If it hadn’t been for them going in there would have been a lot more “pro-Russian” dead.

  4. Ben

    I don’t think global avarice is the only hope at all. Just noting a passing irony of the situation. I think that those who control the west have no particular interest in Putin’s demise – the present system of raking it in has been working pretty well for all of them.

    Please put you other comment on the thread on that exact topic.

  5. Alconon

    Thanks – amended. I fear these mental slips come with old age! I should say that Russian report is pretty compatible with what I wrote – pro-Russian group taking control of town centre in City which was too big for them to intimidate. As I said, I think the sex and age profile of the victims will give a decent idea of whether they were peaceful demonstrators or not. I much doubt it. Of course the Russian report will say all the Russians were peaceful and all the Ukrainians Nazis. That is no more true than its opposite, which is also not true.


    3 May, 2014 - 4:53 pm

    Yes, Craig. Posted that here in error.

    So Western sanctions are just window dressing for hometown consumption? You see no Neo-Con backstage but salient and influential power?


    3 May, 2014 - 4:55 pm

    AA; regional and ethnic hatred with attendant baggage, or was there biased assistance from the Odessa police influenced by Kyev?

  8. All I can say Ben is that the Odessa police left both sides to each other initially. Once it became clear that a tragedy was unfolding firemen went up ladders into the building and rescued people from upper floors. As they were brought to the ground they were then set upon by a violent mob with baseball bats or similar. The police stood across the street and watched as the firemen attempted to protect those rescued and get them to ambulances. Eventually (maybe after an hour or so) the police did intervene.

    The vast majority of Maidan supporters may be peaceful but there were one hell of a lot who weren’t in Odessa yesterday. There were three live streams from different broadcasters covering the event live (including Ukrainian television) but the event was generally ignored by western news channels as it occurred.


    3 May, 2014 - 5:11 pm

    Like I’ve said, we need an official program of the players, AA. Finding the good guys is like the search for MH 370………..I got nothin’. :)


    3 May, 2014 - 5:12 pm

    Oh, except the firefighters; heroes unsung.

  11. That’s very good Craig. I think both William Hague and Catherine Ashton would give you a pass on that – and maybe even Victoria Nuland and her PNAC husband Robert Kagan – at least you weren’t too hard on them. But I only partially buy it, and I think you are completely omitting some very important history, that is totally relevant to the situation in the Ukraine.

    My perception of what is happening is just an extension to the globalist agenda that started around 30 years ago, and was massively accelerated immediately after 9/11 with Iraq, Afghanistan, Libya, Syria, and now the Ukraine – with Europe next in the target line for total collapse and chaos.

    The US neocons directly descendant from Trotsky and infiltrated and merged with the US Military Industrial Complex – are pursuing an agenda of complete world domination and control, and causing complete and utter chaos, poverty, civil war and collapse in numerous parts of the world concurrently is an integral part of their long held plans. They are actually goading Putin to intervene in Ukraine, and by every means possible force the cut off of Russian energy (the largest exporter of energy in the World) to Europe – with China next in line, after Europe has been decimated by total energy collapse.

    European politicians, instead of standing up to these threats to their own populations, appear to be under some kind of satanic control by these monsters across the pond, who not only could not care less about the people in the Ukraine, they also couldn’t care less about the people in Europe, or for that matter the people in the USA, who are becoming just as much victims as the rest of the world, as all their wealth producing jobs are moved to third world countries to maximise profits for the shareholders of the most powerful corporations.


  12. “massing forces on his border” – said which western propaganda outlet exactly? The same one that said Saddam was amassing troops on the border of Saudi perchance?

  13. “British did not commit genocide of the existing populations.” – there’s a fair few million hungry Indians that might like to pick a bone or two about that statement.


    3 May, 2014 - 5:36 pm

    Does the West really want a peaceful resolution for all sides in Ukraine? There seems to be some inconsistency.

    “On the one hand, they are posturing as if they want to be dealmakers, as if they want to broker some kind of a peace. On the other hand, not only did they continue to support the illegal government in Kiev and continue to make very inflammatory comments regarding Russia and their purported role in what’s happening in Eastern Ukraine. At the same time we are also seeing that the US really quite unsure about what their policy is going to be.

    The visit from the CIA Director Brennan which was made very clear to the media through back channels was not just an advisory role as the Western media has portrayed it, but he has given the insurances quite obviously to the so-called government in Kiev that the US would back them in their so-called antiterrorist operation in the East. So much of the conflict that we’ve seen happening in Donetsk and in the other regions in the East is direct byproduct of the dual US so-called diplomacy, or what I would call, diplomacy and subversion.

  15. Ben,

    Take what Russia Today says on Ukraine. Take what Fox News says. The truth won’t lie in the middle, you will rather be acquiring a pile of shit.

  16. Good to see some straight talking.

  17. Habbabkuk (La vita è bella) !

    3 May, 2014 - 6:05 pm


    That was a tour d’horizon magistral and said all that really needs to be said. Even the experienced friends of Vladimir will find it difficult to contest very much and still retain a shred of credibility. Congratulations.


    3 May, 2014 - 6:11 pm

    Craig; You can’t manufacture bellicose threats from Obama and NATO. They are inconsistent firebombs on gasoline. That’s not diplomacy, it’s preparation

  19. Habbabkuk (La vita è bella) !

    3 May, 2014 - 6:12 pm


    “ conditions for ordinary people in Poland have vastly improved as a result of EU membership, and are much better than in Lithuania – or Russia.”

    I think you meant to say “Ukraine” rather than “Lithuania”?

  20. Yesterday’s Guardian anti Putin editorial.

    Ukraine: Kiev’s eastern question

    Vladimir Putin has taken Russia back to pre-Soviet nationalist attitudes. Tanks may yet roll across the Ukrainian border
    The Guardian, Friday 2 May 2014

  21. LWTC247
    The British Empire certainly carried out atrocities in India. There is no respectable argument it carried out genocide. Same is true of Russian expansion in Asia.

  22. “Vladimir Putin has taken Russia back to pre-Soviet nationalist attitudes. ”

    I think that’s what Alec Salmond meant when he said Putin had restored Russian pride. Now we’re about to see the consequences.

  23. Completely agree with this post and interesting to hear some of the history. The Russian government and pro-Russians in Ukraine are churning out propaganda just as much as the Kiev government and their US allies are.

    Mixed Russian and NATO peacekeeping forces with a common mandate and duty to prevent fighting sounds like a good solution – worried that instead the Russians will try to be the only ones deployed in the East and South which they want to control and that NATO will deploy only in the West.

  24. Ben

    Again, the stupidity of the completely one-sided. Russia has made continued threats to intervene militarily in Ukraine. Only one foreign country has actually sent in troops. Why do you see evil only on one side?

  25. Duncan,

    Yes, important that they are mixed down at the tactical level.


    3 May, 2014 - 6:29 pm

    ” Why do you see evil only on one side?” I think this is the intersection of pov’s. One side only sees Putin as bad, seemingly giving a pass to the fascists. I guess you’re right, there is no middle ground.

  27. A long post, Craig. It deserves to be studied before composing a detailed response.

    For the time being, given your interest in BBC propaganda try the headline “Pro-Russian anger at Odessa deaths” for size. Why “Pro-Russian”? Does that lessen the anger that should be felt? It is only “Pro-Russian” so there’s no need for anyone else to get worked up about it? These people were deliberately torched after seeking shelter in a trade union office.

    Brownshirts like setting fire to things, as well as breaking shops windows.

    A final thought, for now: Many of the banners in the east are anti-Nazi. The people who live there know who the enemy is. The army that did the bulk of the fighting in the final assault on Berlin in April 1945 were Ukrainian divisions. And now there are Nazis in their own Government. Excuse them if they’re a little…testy with that.

  28. “Washington has no intention of allowing the crisis in Ukraine to be resolved.”

    Elites love chaos.

    “Having failed to seize the country and evict Russia from its Black Sea naval base, Washington sees new opportunities in the crisis.”

    “The Wolfowitz doctrine justifies Washington’s dominance of all regions. It is consistent with the neoconservative ideology of the US as the “indispensable” and “exceptional” country entitled to world hegemony.

    Russia and China are in the way of US world hegemony. Unless the Wolfowitz doctrine is abandoned, nuclear war is the likely outcome.”

  29. Pussy whipped

    3 May, 2014 - 6:42 pm

    [Black Jelly – banned]

  30. “Here’s a brief excerpt from an interview with Stephen Cohen, professor of Russian studies and history emeritus at New York University on Monday on PBS Newshour. Cohen helps to clarify what is really going on viv a vis the US and Russia:

    “What we’re watching today is the worst kind of history being made, the descent of a new Cold War divide between West and East in Europe, this time not in faraway Berlin, but right on Russia’s borders through Ukraine. That will be instability and the prospect of war for decades to come for our kids and our grandchildren. The official version is that Putin is to blame; he did this. But it simply isn’t true. This began 20 years ago when Clinton began the movement of NATO toward Russia, a movement that’s continued.

    …the fundamental issue here is that, three or four years ago, Putin made absolutely clear he had two red lines…One was in the former Soviet republic of Georgia. (Putin would not allow NATO in Georgia) The other was in Ukraine. We crossed both. You got a war in Georgia in 2008, and you have got today in Ukraine because we, the United States and Europe, crossed Putin’s red line.” (PBS News Hour)

    There’s no doubt who is to blame for the present conflict in Cohen’s mind. It’s Washington.”

  31. Only one foreign country has actually sent in troops.

    Great to see where Craig Murray stands. No credence or even consideration to be given to evidence of US/Nato subversion in Ukraine, the alleged training of Neo-Nazi thugs in Poland, evidence of Western mercenaries in Ukraine. No, this is all Putin’s doing.

    How pathetic can a phony analyst be?

    The reality is that Russia has rebuilt its economy, making Europe heavily dependent on Russia in the process. This poses a dire threat to US Hegemony as spelled out by the Project for the New American Century, and as expressed in the Wolfowitz doctrine:

    “Our first objective is to prevent the re-emergence of a new rival, either on the territory of the former Soviet Union or elsewhere, that poses a threat on the order of that posed formerly by the Soviet Union. This is a dominant consideration underlying the new regional defense strategy and requires that we endeavor to prevent any hostile power from dominating a region whose resources would, under consolidated control, be sufficient to generate global power.”

    What we’re seeing is not Putin being an arse-hole, we’re seeing the onset of WWIII, instigated by the US with the aim of destroying both Russia and China as threats to American hegemony.

    China, although now the largest economy in the world, is to be dealt with after Russia, since Russia poses a threat to US domination of Europe. If the Europeans decide to admit Russia to the European home, as Gorbachev assumed they would, then the US Empire is finished. It is thus vital to the US to instigate a conflict between Russian and Western Europe. A third European civil war will keep the American Empire safe for another generation.

  32. Mike/Ben/Herbie/Mary,

    I read what Craig wrote, and some of it was obviously true, but I thought he still has his old Establishment hat on, despite the appalling way he was treated – but I can understand that too. So I couldn’t immediately respond to it, and instead went for a cycle ride, and wrote my response in my head on my bike.

    [cut. Stay on topic]

  33. Refereeeee!!

    Surely it’s totally in order that a long term and cherished poster like Tony be introduced to newer posters.

    He’s allowed to know to whom he’s talking.

    What’s wrong with that?

  34. CanSpeccy,

    Excellent post. Good to see you are still in fine form…though “How pathetic can a phony analyst be?” was a bit strong…and I think he actually believes what he writes, so it may simply be a case of cognitive dissonance despite his obvious intelligence…

    I don’t know who this guy is…but its the best thing I have read this week…and I agree with almost all of his theories and speculation – especially his Snowden bit – well worth a read…


    “To me the events appear to be an extortion operation against the upcoming Russian and Chinese energy deal as well as mitigating cooperation between Europe and Russia. The Empire will not allow serious cooperation in Eurasia that can challenge them. That means both Russia and Europe as well as between Russia and China. They want to mitigate Russian success in the one area vital to their relationships, energy –ergo, the Ukrainian crisis and its provocations against Europe and the island disputes and its provocations against China.

    This appears to be a move by the empire against Russia, Europe and China that are posing an existential threat to it by challenging the petrodollar. The flailing empire has chosen the Samson Option to ensure that the Russian-Chinese energy agreement and Russian-European gas deals continue to use the petrodollar. You can take the empire down, but at a heavy price.

    The implication of the Ukrainian crisis, in context to Europe is, if you do not trade in petrodollars, we will have the pipelines destroyed, start a war that will eventually drag the rest of Europe against Russia and most likely another world war! This answers why Europe is keeping a low profile, in the media. Behind the curtain?”


  35. I’m struggling to agree with much of this -if Putin is trying to regain the Russian empire then he isn’t doing great. So far he has taken two small chivs out Georgia and Crimea. Crimea was never happy about waking up in Ukraine – I remember rumblings about more autonomy going back to the 90s.
    A quick look at the map of Russian contraction and NATO expansion gives a more realistic picture – it is the West that is playing the world domination game and, by and large, winning. Putin is playing catch up and grabbing a few bits here and there.
    The situation in East Ukraine is more complex than one of ethnicity – the Russian speakers do not necessarily want to become part of Russia, equally they are fearful of the new regime in Kiev. A good article on the matter is here:

    As I see it there are four groupings in Ukraine:
    i) the oligarchs (aka gangsters) who have held power on a rotating basis from independence. They become politicians merely to facilitate their economic plunder. Almost nobody in Ukraine likes them or wants to see them continue in power.
    ii) the Maidan crowd (falsely christened Euro-Maidan) who were primarily against the corruption of the oligarchs and are no more pleased with the current interim government than they were with Yanukovich. We shoudl note that they are still protesting although the Western media has chosen to forget about them now ‘their bastards’ are in power.
    iii) the Right Sector – an unpleasant group from mainly Western Ukraine who were the violent shock troops in Kiev that eventually toppled the Yanukovich regime with covert and overt backing from the EU/US.
    iv) the eastern ‘separatists’ who probably backed Yanukovich but also are feeling persecuted by the banning of Russian as an official language.

    Ukraine will by no means be ‘saved’ by association with the EU – more likely they will lose out massively by being shackled to IMF loans and adjustment programs which will result in large scale privatisations unemployment and austerity in an already impoverished nation. Those in the east seem to appreciate it – those in the west are probably too stupid to realise it or feel that they can use EU help to achieve their own aims.
    Poland is the exception to the rule – most of the former eastern block countries have had a really tough time since joining the EU.

    All in all, the West initiated this mess and are likely to regret doing so. Putin is not helping matters but has his own, quite valid, reasons for doing so.

  36. Resident Dissident

    3 May, 2014 - 7:48 pm

    The analysis is absolutely spot on – the only points I would add are that there are an lot of similarities between ordinary Russians and Ukrainians – and mixed Ukrainian and Russian families are a common feature in both countries. The differences between Russians and Ukrainians should not be exaggerated, and would ideally be kept at the level of jokes and humour. Yes I believe that Ukrainians should rightly be members of the European family – but I also believe that the Russian should be as well.

    Everyone should also be very conscious of the game that Putin is playing – he is more than aware that the economy and particularly him and his fellow kleptocrats have enjoyed a long streak of luck because of a period of high oil and other commodity prices, and the benefits of increases in the efficiency in producing oil (which were incidentally largely initiated by Yukos when Khodorovsky) was in charge) and that such a period is likely to come to an end. Given that this is likely to mean that this will result in even less trickling down to the ordinary people, and because all those decent people with liberal and democratic views are becoming a much more sizeable and noisy minority, so rather than money he is now resorting to playing the nationalist card as a means of retaining power. This is the reason why Putin is terrified of further colour revolutions, why he took the Crimea, why he cracking down on dissidents and the internet, using every opportunity he can to be seen standing up to the West – while at the same time cutting back pension, health and education benefits for ordinary Russian. Putin has to be stood up to now not just for the benefit of his neighbours but for that of Russians, who ultimately always pay the biggest price for the dictatorial behaviour of some of their rulers.

  37. My comment is awaiting moderation – I shall take that as a compliment.

    [it was held for containing a spam-blocking keyword]

  38. Just because it’s early Summer and we have temporarily forgotten how cold our winters can be, little or no thought is being given to European dependency on Russia for its gas supplies. I understand that Germany will not allow any Western military action to take place.

  39. Hey – We’ve got a referee on the pitch…

    Which is great…

    It is Craig Murray’s website, and he can see what has happened to all his previous moderators…

    Well done Craig – Keep it up…

    Good to see You Back in Fine Form


  40. Resident Dissident

    3 May, 2014 - 8:00 pm

    Of course one thing that Canspeccy does not mention is that in recent years has seen a very significant change in its ethnicity – with the Russian birth rate falling and significant Russian emigration, which has been compensated by a large inflow of migrant labour mainly from the former Southern republics. However – I suspect he doesn’t worry about that since those migrants are usually treated as near slave labour, live in appalling housing and are often subject to abuse by officials and racist thugs (something that the Eminences would consider far worse than that doled out by the “fascist” (their word not mine) Theresa May if they could put their prejudices aside for a moment) – largely because Putin makes all the right nationalist noises and discourages any interbreeding. This is of course the sort of plan Canspeccy would like the West to follow as well – don’t let anyone be fooled otherwise.

  41. Some standards of journalism are more ethical than others. While all are biased the news coming out of Russia Today has been much more accurate than that of the BBC and the Guardian which have both been misreporting what happened in Odessa. They have started now to give a more accurate picture.

    As to Poland being a lot better off since it joined Europe than it was before I’m not so sure. I cycled through Poland in 2001. Everywhere was clean and tidy. There was no litter. The people were friendly and honest. I spoke to a man, Adam, in Przemyśl in the Prosecutor’s office and we spoke about Russian literature. He also told me about the problem of illegal immigrants coming in from the Ukraine. He directed me to a medieval castle as place of interest. The castle had secret passages and dated back to the eighteenth century though its records went back to the sixteenth century. Everybody I met was smartly dressed and there was one stage where I seriously contemplated doing an exchange of clothes with a scarecrow.

    In 2004 I got delayed in Krakow for almost a week because there were so many people coming to England I could not get a place on a coach. When I did get a place I sat next to a young medical doctor, Marta, who was coming to work in England. She had got a job to go to as a nurse at a care home in Shropshire. Her English was good but I felt sorry that she had taken a job below her qualifications. We kept in touch and I was not surprised when she went back to Poland.

    I have revisited Poland several times since, and driven there once. Things are still clean though litter-consciousness is not as evident as it was in 2001. Unemployment, which fell initially, is going up and stands at above 13% (stay away from Wikipedia, which says it is falling). The gap between rich and poor has increased. Wages and the cost of living have gone up, as has the value of the Złoty against a basket of currencies. I have a few friends in England who are Polish and they are still supporting families over there. Poland, in my opinion, has benefited so much from EU membership it is becoming little different from other western economies in some ways. The people are hard-working and generally welcoming. Unfortunately it is also part of NATO and has supplied troops for the illegal invasions together with training for the Maidan terrorists.

    Yes, it has growing GDP, if that is any indicator of improvement.

  42. Resident Dissident

    3 May, 2014 - 8:03 pm

    “I understand that Germany will not allow any Western military action to take place.”

    I don’t think anyone is proposing such action – the place to hit Putin is in his wallet. I would not underestimate Merkel – I suspect that she understands the real nature of Putin better than most having grown up in Eastern GermanY.

  43. John Goss,

    Great deal of truth in your anecdotal evidence, but if you took 1990 as your starting point rather 2001, the improvement is truly startling.

  44. technicolour

    3 May, 2014 - 8:12 pm

    John Goss: “While all are biased the news coming out of Russia Today has been much more accurate than that of the BBC and the Guardian”- tell me, oh oracle, how you devine this?

  45. Resident Dissident

    3 May, 2014 - 8:12 pm

    John Goss

    Since litter appears to be the main measure you use to measure a society perhaps you should note that under both Yeltsin and Putin, Moscow is clearly failing – strangely enough you will find that old Soviet communists often use the same measure. On the other hand, I am told that the streets of Pyongyang are pristine.

  46. technicolour

    3 May, 2014 - 8:15 pm

    “I would not underestimate Merkel”

    agreed. And having spent some time with some people from Germany over the last few days it was refreshing to see the righteous fury with which they greeted the fact that the US had been spying on their Chancellor and, moreover, were refusing to stop. As well as sobering to hear the contempt they had for the role of the English backers in all this.

    Incidentally, Snowden was described by one (a judge) as an honourable, service worthy man.

  47. Resident Dissident

    3 May, 2014 - 8:16 pm

    “Great deal of truth in your anecdotal evidence, but if you took 1990 as your starting point rather 2001, the improvement is truly startling.”

    I spent time in Poland around that time and I would agree – I do remember being proudly shown a salad bar in a Warsaw restaurant which consisted entirely of cabbage done 15 different ways – the beer however was excellent.

  48. “While all are biased the news coming out of Russia Today has been much more accurate than that of the BBC and the Guardian”- tell me, oh oracle, how you divine this?

    I watch the news. Thought that must have been obvious my friend.

  49. “I suspect that she understands the real nature of Putin better than most having grown up in Eastern GermanY.”

    Yeah. That’ll have prepared her for NSA spying on her personal conversations.

    Germany is very divided on the American desire to subjugate Russia and will be only too keenly aware that Europe itself is very vulnerable to any further destabilisation to the east.

    She’ll also be aware that the US doesn’t much mind that mighty Germany itself be futher undermined in the fallout.

  50. technicolour

    3 May, 2014 - 8:24 pm

    You watch the news? To judge the news?

    ‘My’ Germans wished that Germany had given Snowden asylum, which would have showed the US. Did he actually ask them?

    I remembered that when German ministers were showing signs of getting nouty about Iraq, the US had threatened to cut off imports of BMWs. At which point the more outspoken ministers went quiet…

  51. The important thing in life is to just go for it, even if you think you are useless, because if you try you get better – and despite all the (in my case physical problems (its nowt really – just myatonia congenita – never stopped me doing owt – I just faked it – pre-tensed my muscles before any test – which sometimes when immediately being summoned to the office in fury – at no notice – made me think really quickly and try and calm her down…by saying all the things I could think of- whilst I pre-tensed my muscles – so I could stand up normally…and walk quickly) I never took any drugs for it because my older brother and sister did..and are now dead. There’s nowt wrong with me so far as I know – and I am somewhat older than Craig. I dye my hair too – but it is mine (my Dad was bald at 25 – total genius mind)

    Thank You so Much

    We are off to the pub now…

    I’d love to meet you.



  52. Herbie @6.45pm

    Thanks for the link; the analysis of Stephen Cohen ex NYU, certainly seems more grounded in reality than that of Craig Murray, ex FCO.

    Craig is at least correct to say that, since the putsch that ousted Yanukovitch, this has become a ‘world domination game’. The latest piece of evidence for this is the statement issued by the State Dept after the horrendous events in Odessa yesterday-,+Germany+Mourn+Victims+of+Ukraine%E2%80%99s+Odessa+Fire

    Note how the first paragraph better fits the sort of statements governments issue after natural disasters (‘tragedy’) rather than events caused by human agency. Note also how the deaths of so many are described simply as ‘unacceptable’. (I’m sure this is reminiscent of US statements at the time of Operation Cast Lead).

    It is quite plain from this statement that in this conflict, violence emanating for pro Kiev sources will not elicit outright condemnation from the US.

  53. John Goss, 8:02pm:

    “(stay away from Wikipedia, which says it is falling)”

    If Wikipedia lacks references to well-founded statistics that you know of, please update Wikipedia. It is your right, and could be considered a duty.

    Wikipedia is open to being edited by all, and if well-supported facts are added, removing them is a violation of Wikipedia’s rules.

    By merely complaining, and especially by urging people away, you abandon Wikipedia to those who publish the information that you dispute.

  54. Technicolour, you don’t criticise the BBC? What’s wrong with you? We all do on this blog, except for RD, Habbabkuk, Kempe and the usual shower of UK government stooges.

  55. technicolour

    3 May, 2014 - 8:53 pm

    Strange, John, isn’t it? I reserve the right to criticise appalling lack of news reporting (which may include the BBC) but equally strangely I do support the existence of a no commercial adverts channel.

  56. Clark, I tried once and there was so much rigmarole I gave up. Not easy. And there were people who seemed to have authority over others. As an authority on Robert Bage.

    “I spent time in Poland around that time and I would agree – I do remember being proudly shown a salad bar in a Warsaw restaurant which consisted entirely of cabbage done 15 different ways – the beer however was excellent.”

    I can believe it. I was in Minsk in 1982 and had a similar experience. I ordered Borsch and told them I was a vegetarian. It came with small pieces of meat in it. When I complained I was told they were only small pieces. Oh, and the beer was Zhugolovskii or some such name. It was not great either. The best beer I had in the former Soviet Union was in a bierkeller in Vilnius. :)

  57. Old Mark

    Operation Cast Lead was an appalling war crime because it targeted and massacred unarmed civilians. Including a lot of women and children. By contrast, my language for the death of aggressive participants in conflict is indeed that it is a tragedy. I have said that we will know a lot more about the truth from the profile of the victims in Odessa, but I am not anticipating many women or children. All information I hear so far indicates I am right.

    It is a tragic loss of life. But you can’t start battles and expect a situation where only the other side gets hurt.

  58. James Corbett in a video discussion with David L. Smith of the Geneva Business Insider, on the economics surrounding the American orchestrated Ukraine crisis:

  59. “Strange, John, isn’t it? I reserve the right to criticise appalling lack of news reporting (which may include the BBC) but equally strangely I do support the existence of a no commercial adverts channel.”

    Me too. That’s the best thing about the BBC, lack of adverts, that and some of its drama, like Last Tango in Halifax, and serialisation of Classics, though I thought Jamaica Inn, though good in parts, lacked the atmosphere of the book.

  60. “you can’t start battles and expect a situation where only the other side gets hurt.”

    Uh, yeah. Tell it to the marines.

    It started in America.

  61. I’m heartened to see a few commentators still ready to intelligently ‘tell it as really it is’ – Canspeccy, Tony 0pmoc, John Goss, Mary and a few others but frankly, after maybe 8 years of trying to hang in there with Craig, this is my swan song on any further involvement here.

    In spite of his principled, career-destroying stance on torture I have become progressively disillusioned with his particular brand of hectoring liberal-left politics. His OTOH – OTO approach to the noose-tightening around Russia is just the latest manifestation of the way in which so-called ‘progressives’ in the west effectively facilitate the very worst manifestations of its violent arrogant aggression whilst simultaneously wringing their hands and denouncing it. I still can’t figure out quite what causes such blindeness.

    Craig may have been opposed to the West’s humanitarian bombing campaigns and terrorist violence facilitating in Yugoslavia, Iraq, Afghanistan, Libya, Syria etc, …but what else was the West supposed to do in the face of such evil dictators? is the general message conveyed. And so it is with Putin and Ukraine.

    I suggest he attends this recent Moscow University class lecture by its Director of Russian Studies Andrei Fursov: Battleground Ukraine. It might help him to “See himself as ithers see him” – to plagiarise his national poet – and to get a rather more nuanced understanding of the Russian perspective on these things. To paraphrase and borrow from Le Carre’s traitor Bill Haden, a substantial majority support their president and “Hate the American State system very deeply – the oppression of the working class institutionalised” + any uppity 2nd-or-3rd world country that declines to see things their/our way; and as for GREAT Britain – “…. America’s street-walker” just about sums it up.

    The plain fact is that Putin has simply declined to allow Russia to be dragged down the same path. In so doing he has become probably THE most popular head of state on the entire planet – and thus a hated and marked man in the West. The Anglo-US-NATO behemoth has, it appears, decided that it is going to make Ukraine THE casus belli for doing to Russia what they failed to follow-through on during the Yeltsin years – and GOD HELP US ALL!

    Also, you might like to study this map of Russia’s clearly aggressive intent


  62. Resident Dissident 3 May, 2014 – 8:12 pm

    Don’t know where you live but in Birmingham we have litter-pickers whose work is never done. It would not be too much to ask for people to take their litter home. This morning when coming back from walking the dogs a kid on a bike 14/15 perhaps drained a coke can and threw it to the ground I shouted to him to find a bloody litter bin. He looked at me and ignored me as one who owns the planet. We all have a responsibility to help our council’s parks and gardens and highway departments. My observations of Poland were a comparison to what I see here. On the Moscow Metro in Soviet days I never saw litter. Perhaps litter is a by-product of the capitalist throw-away society.

  63. Joseph Kurtz

    3 May, 2014 - 9:18 pm

    Logging in for future comment, differ on this but great blog – following from Australia for 3 year

  64. Mr Murray wrote:

    “My expectation is there will not be many women, children or old people among the dead, but also there will not be many non-Ukrainian nationals. I expect these will prove to have been local Russian young men.”

    This shows the results of the actions of West’s neonazi stooges. Note the absence of weapons.

    A comment by ‘olivegreen’ in the comments to this lists the names and DOBs of the victims identified so far. A wide variety of ages and sexes. All are from Odessa.

    Just for that extra touch – on the social media pages of some of the neonazis, commentators counterpose images of roast turkey with all the trimmings against images presented in the first link above.

  65. “Russia and China are in the way of US world hegemony.”

    That’s exactly the bigger picture here, Herbie. Has been since PNAC forced Clinton to sign the Iraq Liberation Act when he “did not have sexual relations with that woman.”

    From Serbia onwards, the same deceit, provocation and outright aggression.

    Martin Luther King must be turning in his grave.

  66. Kelly ben Maimon

    3 May, 2014 - 10:24 pm

    Craig Murray: “You can’t start a revolution in another country… You can affect it at the margins. The UN Security Council should send in UN peacekeepers, which include both Russian and Western forces in close intergration.”

    A number of questions spring to mind. Judging by the terrifying violent escalation over last few days.
    (1) Why has Security Council not acted on your particular solution – assuming others have surely come to same conclusion? Surely, others can see that the situation is out of control.
    (2) Is it that some sort of resolution needs to be passed beforehand?
    (3) Do all member states need to agree?

  67. Resident Dissident

    3 May, 2014 - 10:34 pm

    “My expectation is there will not be many women, children or old people among the dead, but also there will not be many non-Ukrainian nationals. I expect these will prove to have been local Russian young men.”

    I am not sure that this will be the case and it certainly isn’t what is being reported in Russia – but I’m afraid that it something of an irrelevance. With the Russians encouraging and supporting the takeover of government buildings in what is part of the Ukraine it was only a matter of time before there was a reaction from Ukrainian nationalists and extremists – I’m afraid that is what happens in such situations. Neither behaviour is excusable – it only demonstrates the restraint shown by the vast majority of Ukrainians that something like this didn’t happen much earlier.

    Strong international pressure needs to be exerted on both sides to get the military and quasi military out of the situation – as they have already agreed to do so. However, given the way this is all being reported in Russia I get the distinct impression that accelerating the cycle of violence is all part of Putin’s plan for a further invasion.

  68. @Tony_Opmoc

    “How pathetic can a phony analyst be?” was a bit strong…

    Yes, I agree: an ill-mannered presumption. I take it back with apologies — but with the proviso that one would be a fool not to realize that my supposition is quite likely correct.

    Thanks for the fascinating link:

    It provides salutary warning of the obscurity of events despite the glib reports from all sides, and offers a fascinating hypothesis on Snowden, an otherwise very strange phenomenon.

  69. That’s tosh Res Diss. Recycled western MSM wilful misreading of the situation – imaginative fiction – and with some uniquely cringeworthy hyperbole of your own larded on top. Where is your urge for enquiry into the identities of the ‘Ukranian nationalists and extremists’ who committed this atrocity? The victims have been identified, subject to verification, they’re were mixed bag of local people, hounded through the streets by a baying mob and horribly murdered.

    Craig’s off-beam with this analysis too, some interesting historical summary, some painfully evident editorialising too, with a disconnect from reality many commenters have remarked upon. Maybe it’s a two-part essay and the flip side is in the works?

    Resident Dissident (3 May, 2014 – 10:34 pm) “it only demonstrates the restraint shown by the vast majority of Ukrainians that something like this didn’t happen much earlier.”

    So your saying they deserved incineration, sooner?

    You’re one sick puppy. This’ll come back to haunt you.

  70. Craig,
    somewhat perplexed by your statement “The difference between the Russian and the British Empires is that the British gave almost all of theirs back in the post-colonial period (a process that needs to be urgently completed). Russia gave back much of her Empire at the fall of the Soviet Union, but still retained a very great deal more than the British.” You may disagree but I would expect that a thief should give eventually back what he has stolen but who will resurrect the dead and remedy the lives of millions that have been ruined by the colonial powers. The question you perhaps should ask yourself is whether, and to what extent, is this giving back voluntary. Certainly not in my opinion. Your comparison is intended to fool the reader. How much have the US government given back to the Sioux or Apaches? Fucking nothing, I would say. The colonization of America was similar to that of Russia. A gradual expansion over large swathes of land with low population density. I hope that you will not be too surprised if I tell you that the British colonization was totally different as it involved subjugating countries that were rather distant from the motherland and had large populations like India. Keeping them for much longer would have been impossible. Thus what you mean by giving back is not dissimilar to a thief leaving behind a bronze statue on a doorstep that is too heavy to carry to the van. Or letting free a crocodile that has grown too large for his bathtub.

  71. One brilliant analysis. Nothing to add. Thanks.

    I’d have a reservation re. “The desire of ordinary Ukrainians to join the EU one day, and move closer to it now, is understandable.” If desires of “ordinary Ukrainians” are analysed, I don’t think “joining EU” would be anywhere in the first 100 of the most burning ones. Safety of existence, definitely. Lowers prices, higher wages, yes. But for the MAJORITY of them, European Union is just an imaginary creature, the way it was for the Poles, Czechs, etc., in the 1990s.

    Decisions on forming strategic alliances can only rarely be decided upon by the masses, and certainly not in countries characterised by precarious security situation. What the “ordinary Ukrainians” want is utterly irrelevant IMHO – people will want whatever TV tells them to, and there is more than enough studies to confirm this.

    People in the east of Ukraine now are told that joining Russia will bring stability and prosperity. I bet the majority believes in that. And will until local TV transmitters change hands.

    Sorry for my rant, and thanks again for a truly enlightening post.

  72. “From Serbia onwards, the same deceit, provocation and outright aggression.”

    Precisely, Mike.

    The problem with Craig’s approach is that it’s much too discrete, can’t see the wood for the trees.

    Picking on Putin for what are relatively minor matters in the Ukraine context and ignoring completely the West’s much graver involvement and its longer term plans.

    The West is determined that there is no challenge to its desire to impose its rules upon the whole planet. That’s why Russia and China are ringed with NATO bases. Either threatened into submission or bombed into submission.

    It’s as simple as that.

    You’re either for that plan or you’re not.

    And each element must be treated as part of the larger plan.

    In that context, Craig’s position just seems confused.

  73. Tony M,
    I agree with you that these blood hounds like the resident dissident craving for murder are intolerable. Why does Craig tolerates the implicit sadness of this hasbara clown that more blood has not been spilled in Odessa is difficult to understand.


    4 May, 2014 - 12:04 am

    Yonotan; I’ve taken the liberty of google tranzing your link (beware graphic images)

    Squonk was watching the live feed and the Odessa police were standing around when the victims sought shelter in the building, which was intentionally set afire. The cops seemed to be on task to prevent the wrong side from emerging unscathed.


    4 May, 2014 - 12:05 am


    4 May, 2014 - 12:21 am

    “In that context, Craig’s position just seems confused.”

    It’s hard to tell what the nuance within Craig’s ideology is. I wish he would dispense with his prickly condescension when he replies to comments, but perhaps it’s a defense mechanism. He has a very narrow spectrum on certain subjects, and sometimes it seems he feels his first response is sufficient for all but fools, so follow-ups are received with abject silence. It’s hard to tell if he’s stumped or just gives up the ghost of tolerance.

  77. None of the remaining provinces would opt to join Russia given the choice.

    I don’t think many in Ukraine or Russia are saying otherwise. At the outset of this US/NATO/Chatham House-induced “crisis” Putin stated that Russia did not seek additional territory, i.e., other than Crimea, where 93% of those who actually voted, i.e., about 83%, are said to have voted for union with Russia (which seems not implausible), and where Russia has based its Black Sea fleet for most of the time since 1783, i.e., since before the US had appropriated most of the territory of the North Americas Amerindians.

    Consistent with this Russian position, Russia’s English language media refer to the E. Ukraine protesters as Federalists, not separatists. “Separatist” is the term used by the Western media and Kyiv regime after it became obviously absurd to use the term “terrorist” for those in Eastern Ukraine angry at the intention of the Nazi-backed Kyiv junta to deny them the use of Russian as an official language.

    You advocate Scotch separatism, but would deny Russian-speaking Ukrainians the right to the use of their first language or the right to a referendum on provincial autonomy. This seems like truly astounding hypocrisy.

    As for the blather about the wonderful improvement in the standard of living of East European members of the EU, the fact is many in the EU are suffering far greater economic stress than the people of Russia, where the GDP has tripled in the last 25 years. In fact, if Ukraine were to become a member of the EU now, most of the best educated young people would grab an EU passport and leave for Berlin or London, while the majority at home would be saddled with years of austerity, mass unemployment and looting of the economy by oligarchs of both East and West.

  78. Another important thing to know – especially as it gets warmer – obviously you can’t take the piss – is to ask for a pint of tap water – and insist that you are not paying for it…I am not sure if it is still a legal requirement..but it is a very long standing cultural, accepted thing in the watering holes I go to with my wife – particularly if they both have a beer festival on – and a Brilliant Band.

    Best Drink of the Day


  79. @ RD
    This is of course the sort of plan Canspeccy would like the West to follow as well

    Still pushing the opposition-to-genocide-is-racism meme? Good luck with that!

  80. Would be sorry if Wikispooks ceases to comment, especially after the Moscow University class lecture of Andrei Fursov posted in his comment above. I have never read such an in-depth analysis of who the oligarchs are, what are the powers behind those with an interest in Ukraine, how Russia is trying to control the beast unleashed on the world in the form of NATO wars. His analysis of Putin and the Russian government being one step ahead, and preparing to defend itself against any similar aggression. And the analysis makes sense. It finishes with a stark warning about the information war that I believe should not be ignored.

    “Well, we shouldn’t be ashamed to learn from the West how to operate in the informational domain. Their policies are of an offensive nature. If you are reacting, then you’re one step behind and you’re going to lose. In the Crimean Victory we won because our leadership, above all the president, he was always a step ahead of the opponent. He took a step. They reacted. He set the agenda.”

    They did win. They won Crimea. I recently applied for a new passport. Up to four weeks I think it said it would take if I remember right. In three days maybe less everybody in Crimea was issued with passports. In some ways I feel Russia is ahead not just in the information war, but in their analyses of situations, and see the bigger picture better than those they learnt from. I am really concerned about what is happening in the Ukraine, for the people killed in Odessa the images of which are disturbing. But thank you Yonatan for posting.

    I still suspect (conspiracy theory of course) the Russians shot down two missiles when Israel tried to ramp up the pressure in Syria, because after that US/NATO (same thing) backed off when we all thought they were previously creating an excuse to go in. Also Russian intelligence was obviously ahead of the game in releasing audio footage of Catherine Ashton/Urmus Paet and, presumably, a recorded meeting with Victoria Nuland, Klitschko, Yatsenyuk and thugs.

  81. Continued from previous thread… RT are still claiming that civilians have been murdered by Right Sector in K, although they are playing down the Nazi imagery. Jury has to still be out unless verified independently. BBC always used to make sure they had at least two independent sources – is that still true today?

    I’ve looked through some of the thousands of pictures on social media show the lead up to the burning of the TU headquarters, and pictures of people brought out of the building. There are pictures of Molotov cocktails being produced by the sort of photogenic females that we all saw in the Maidan protests. No doubt in my mind now that the MM have been nurturing a neo-Nazi mindset amongst the young in Western Ukraine.

    There were also pictures of charred bodies that hadn’t been removed… hence the rise to 46 today. Whilst some may have been pro-Russian activists, there were probably also people working in the building that was stormed and burned, and we know how much our right-wing friends like trades unionists…

    We should all be aware of the words of Pastor Niemoiller, because it seems to me that we potentially have a 4th Reich here in the making on Russia’s doorstep. And the “useful fools” blame Russia for this?!!?

  82. K = Kramatorsk

    An interesting thought that has to invite a reaction:

    “The illegal Kiev puppets get more money if they can delivery west and east Ukraine to IMF and US. As we see they’re willing to kill to get the extra billions.”

    (Comment a few minutes ago on RT website)

  83. CanSpeccy wrote “Still pushing the opposition-to-genocide-is-racism meme? Good luck with that!”

    Still pushing the allowing-any-immigraton-whatsoever-is-genocide meme? Good luck with that!

  84. Only been to Poland once and then only to Warsaw, but from the few people I spoke to it seemed like it could well be the case that the country was getting better off overall but inequality growing so much that many people were worse off (as with most of the developed world). Was told the same people who were senior public servants under the Communist party were now running the privatised firms and the stock exchange. Then again i was only there once so don’t have anything to compare it to.

  85. Craig

    Your use of the term ‘aggressive participants’ is an addition to the lexicon. I don’t recall it being used by you last winter, when Yanukovitch was still in office, and events like this-

    and this-

    were happening elsewhere in Ukraine

  86. Wikispooks I endorse the stated wish of others here, that you continue to offer your words of wisdom to us out in the wider world. Perhaps if you might just accept (for better or worse) Craig’s position on various issues, your contributions are valued by many others, and who knows, the scales might fall from the eyes of those who can’t ‘see’.

    We can’t change others, but at least hang in with those who care to see all sides of any given situation. Thank You.

  87. @DM

    Still pushing the allowing-any-immigraton-whatsoever-is-genocide meme?

    Your sneer is based on a lie.

    Get the facts right and you demolish your own position and reveal your own anti-British racism.

    Allowing mass immigration when the fertility of the indigenous population is below the replacement rate results in population replacement, which is genocide.

    But it’s a waste of time, I realize, pointing out facts to pig-headed immigration fanatics and dupes of the globalist elite.

  88. “Were western governments encouraging pro-western groups in Ukraine? Yes, that’s their job. Did this include covert support? Yes. Were the Russians doing precisely the same thing with their supporters? Yes, that’s their job too.”

    That’s their job only in the sense that it was Jose Rodriguez’ job to cut the tits off nuns. As the World Court put it, “The Court notes that there have been in recent years a number of instances of foreign intervention in one State for the benefit of forces opposed to the government of that State. It concludes that the practice of States does not justify the view that any general right of intervention in support of an opposition within another State exists in contemporary international law.” So the US was in the wrong before the revolution established itself as the new government. If, as seems likely, the successor state breached international obligations in coming to power, all nations have a responsibility not to recognize the wrongfully-established circumstances. Hands-off is best, no doubt, but the Russian and US hands-on are not precisely equivalent.

    Agreed that Ukraine is now a pawn of great-power confrontation in multilateral breach of the non-intervention principle. That means the only sure way to defuse the conflict is to set up a neutral Ukraine. In principle that’s for the state to decide but the threat to peace might override that. Let’s hope cooler heads short-circuit the NATO/SCO tug-of-war with a neutral Ukraine.

  89. Sadly a very one-sided historical analysis
    Craig fails to mention the fact that while many Russian speakers east of the Dnieper see themselves as Ukrainian- many of the neo-nazis west of the Dneiper do not. While Nuland’s $5b is likely highly exaggerated, as is much else of from the neo-con camp, the financial inputs fro State Dept’s the Endowment for Democracy in the past 10 years combined with the resourcing and training by Western intelligence agencies of the neo-nazi parties in Western Ukraine during the entire period of the Cold War and after are certainly likely to total in the hundreds of millions of dollars. From the West perspectives the neo-nazis are sen as foolish tools to control Ukraine’s geopolitical resources and a stepping stone to Russia but there values are clear- to rid Ukraine of all non Ukrainian speaking peoples
    It is undoubtedly true that there is a large contingent of extreme right wing groups in Russia itself, and Putin and his entourage are definitely not in the liberal and morally laissez-faire camp either (it would appear not many Russian citizens are!) However to characterize Putin as some demonic dictator about to re-take all of Eastern Europe is both bizarre and superficial.
    Unquestionably there will be Russian intelligence agents on the ground in Eastern Ukraine, but even the US State Department cant find factual evidence that actually sticks of Russian troops on the ground. The usefulness of Svoboda and the Right Sektor and other right wing groups, to the West is purely in their hatred of Russia and the evils done to Ukraine in the name of the USSR.

    Russian speaking Ukrainians are undoubtedly at risk in this new environment of Ukrainian “nationalism”, which has been heavily supported by the West -to pretend otherwise is, at best, sloppy analysis.

  90. I liked Tony’s post at 8.34.

    I don’t feel I have much to add to this discussion. Its too difficult.

  91. Ukrainian Ukrainians have a lot to be bitter about such as Holodomor. If I had lived through that then I might have found myself on the wrong side in WW11. Russian Ukrainians have a good argument about NATO encroachment. Don’t let it become a new Syria.

  92. It is a good article. but before posting it, you should show it to a native speaker of Russian. You write, “as I have repeatedly explained, absolutely everybody in the former Soviet Union knows precisely what is asked in the questions of Gradzvanstvo and Narodnosch)” The word your are seeking is Ethnicity or Nazionalnost Национальность. It is also commonly refered to as The Fifth Line Пятая Графа (as it was the fifth line of the Soviet passport (I used to have one). Now, Gradzvanstvo гражданство is citizenship, for example, British citizenship Гражданство Великобритании or Британское гражданство). Narodnosch is a misspeling of the word narodnost народность and this word has two separate meanings. First is “small nation” Daghestan has about two hundred small nations, all with their mutually incomprehensible languages (Darginians, Avarians, Lezgins, Tats (the Mountain Jews).Second meaning is “Respect for what common people believe) English narodnost is a claim that marmite is really tasty and should be a part of lunch in every school, Scottish narodnost is ordering that all Scottish bankers be ethnically Scottish, wear kilts to work or be fired. This is a part of the Count Uvarov’s famous triad “Absolute Monarchy, Orthodox Faith, Respect for Folk Traditions” Самодержавие, Православие, Народность. There are many other points I could raise, but my post is already long. My last point: great respect and admiration for you, Mr Murray. You were a great Ambassador.

  93. Resident Dissident

    4 May, 2014 - 7:33 am

    Tony M

    You may think I ‘m sick – but at least I am not dishonest – read what I said “Neither behaviour is excusable” Yes there should be an enquiry and action against those responsible for the deaths in Odessa – just as there should be an enquiry into those responsible for the murders and torture going on in Donetsk and the helicopters being shot down by SAM missiles. However, the immediate concern should be to stop any escalation.

  94. To clarify the ‘Cheerio’ in my last post.

    I admit the post was written in exasperation with its attendant distortions.

    What I mean by ‘swan-song’ and ‘cheerio’ is this: Like others here, I currently have far more sites on my RSS feed than I can possibly do justice to. I therefore have to have periodic clear-outs. Craig’s blog is now no longer on the list; that’s all – which means I am unlikely to have my attention drawn to his posts unless referred to them in some other way. Much more useful and clear-sighted stuff elsewhere I’m finally forced to admit.

    On the OSCE military observers detention issue dealt with in the previous post. This was Putin’s measured reply to a journalists question about it. There is also useful stuff from him about the US leadership of the Kiev Junta and Western sanctions.

    If only we had a leader of his stature in the west, instead of pathetic puppets of hidden (but no less obvious) interests that we have to endure, there might be some hope for the future. As it is the internal logic of the dying globalist system looks set fair to wreak vastly more damage on the planet and its peoples in its death-throws – GHUA again.

    I’ll check this thread for a while, but otherwise that’s it from me.

  95. Obomber the joker. Sick. A bonehead.

    “Colorado legalized marijuana this year. I hope it doesn’t lead to a bunch of paranoid people who think the government is out to get them, and listening to their phone calls,” the president said, nodding to the N.S.A.’s mass surveillance programs.

    On Putin, pronounced Poot’n

    ‘Obama made fun of conservative television hosts’ talk about Putin’s bare chest and one’s comment last year about Putin being headed for a Nobel Peace Prize. “To be fair, they give those to just about anybody these days,” said Obama, a laureate himself.’

    Yes Obomber you did get one didn’t you. As Shillary said, ‘We came, We saw, He died’. That was nice for Gaddafi, Osama Bin Laden and all those you have killed extrajudicially by drone, Hellfire missile and the bullet.

  96. Please don’t leave us Wikispooks. I remember your invaluable piece on the Dr Rola/Syria lies carried on ZBC. The lies continue eg stories via Mr Pannell of barrel bombs dropped from helicopters on Aleppo. Your record is needed. Kind regards.

  97. Peacewisher

    4 May, 2014 - 8:54 am

    This blog really needs you, Wikispooks. I’ve only been an occasional poster, but agreed with most of what Craig has written most of the time until the Ukrainian matter arose. He is clearly displaying a view of Russia based on the cold war and the USSR, which I suspect is still prevalent in the FO, although Russia has clearly moved on.

    His dislike of Russia comes across clearly in “Murder in Samarkind”, but in that book he was brave enough to publish an “Enron” connection with the Taliban. I think his analysis on this occasion is dangerously wrong, but at least he wants peace in a neutral Ukraine and he is open to honest debate about it.

  98. I was looking to see who wrote the piece in the Independent.

    Oliver Poole

    Oliver Poole is an award-winning Foreign Correspondent for the Evening Standard and Independent titles. In his career he has reported from war zones including Libya, Afghanistan, Somalia and Iraq, where he was based during the worst years of the civil war. He has written two books, “Red Zone: Five Bloody Years in Baghdad’ and ‘Black Knights: On the Bloody Road to Baghdad’. He was previously a Foreign Reporter for The Daily Telegraph, and has written for the BBC, Guardian, Times and South China Morning Post.

    ‘….and Iraq, where he was based during the worst years of the civil war.’

    If he sees the Bush/Blair PNAC slaughter enacted on Iraq, then abandon all expectation of truth from the British media.


  99. If he sees the Bush/Blair PNAC slaughter enacted on Iraq as a ‘civil war’, then abandon all expectation of truth from the British media.

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