77 thoughts on “The EU Is Lost

1 2 3
  • Resident Dissident

    They had to find a Tory who was enthusiastic for the EU – are there any other candidates?

  • Craig P

    At least one of those men has a good chance of being out of a job come May, unless we are looking at Lord Alexander?

  • Anon

    Craig, you’re yet to put up a reasoned defence of the EU yourself, despite many times being asked. Perhaps you could run past us some of the arguments you would offer were you to be heading the campaign.

  • Silvio

    After Craig’s submission last week re. torture and who in the UK establishment knew what and when, this Sunday The Mail on Sunday publishes another masterful exposure of the EU/US/NATO lies and subterfuge, this time over the Russia/Ukraine crisis.

    PETER HITCHENS: Forget ‘evil’ Putin – we are the bloodthirsty warmongers
    By Peter Hitchens for The Mail on Sunday

    Until a year ago, Ukraine remained non-aligned between the two great European powers. But the EU wanted its land, its 48 million people (such a reservoir of cheap labour!) its Black Sea coast, its coal and its wheat.

    So first, it spent £300 million (some of it yours) on anti-Russian ‘civil society’ groups in Ukraine.

    Then EU and Nato politicians broke all the rules of diplomacy and descended on Kiev to take sides with demonstrators who demanded that Ukraine align itself with the EU.

    Imagine how you’d feel if Russian politicians had appeared in Edinburgh in September urging the Scots to vote for independence, or if Russian money had been used to fund pro-independence organisations.

    Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/article-2882208/PETER-HITCHENS-Forget-evil-Putin-bloodthirsty-warmongers.html#ixzz3MWm8rydr

  • Silvio

    The European powers and CIA torture

    The eleven countries operating what were effectively proxy CIA facilities included Syria and Libya—both of which subsequently fell foul of US regime-change operations. But the smaller list of six countries with secret prisons (black sites) directly controlled by the CIA included Poland, Lithuania, Bosnia-Herzegovina and Romania.

    This latter list says a great deal about the “democratic” credentials of the regimes that emerged from the Western-backed “democratic revolutions” that toppled the Stalinist regimes in Eastern Europe, and the US- and German-stoked civil war and dismemberment of Yugoslavia.

    The CIA sites in foreign countries are identified only by a colour code, such as Detention Site Black, Blue, etc. Poland, one of the most important, was Blue.

    Getting people to these sites to be tortured via the “extraordinary rendition” programme directly involved 54 governments (a quarter of the world’s states, with over 20 in Europe) in a vast criminal enterprise.

    As part of ensuring this collusion, involving at least 1,000 CIA flights, millions of dollars were distributed as blood money. “CIA headquarters encouraged CIA stations to construct ‘wish lists’ of proposed financial assistance to redacted [entities of foreign governments], and to ‘think big’ in terms of assistance,” the report states. Washington paid Lithuania $1 million for establishing the Violet detention centre.

    A central role was played by the UK, Italy, Germany, Portugal and Spain, including rendition of their citizens and, in the case of the UK, direct collusion in torture.

    http://www.wsws.org/en/articles/2014/12/20/pers-d20.html

  • Kempe

    ” the EU wanted its land, its 48 million people (such a reservoir of cheap labour!) its Black Sea coast, its coal and its wheat. ”

    Well why do you think the Russian’s want it?

    The EU is clearly a force for evil in the world and should be broken up.

  • giyane

    Is this a party game of heads bodies and legs?
    Snake head. Armchair middle. Rodents tail and legs.

    Thank you Silvio today, Fedup and RoS yesterday for bringing back the heavyweight material on torture.

  • Phil

    Your surprise that an old tory stalwart should defend a tory government is not revealing of astute analysis. And there was I thinking your new found silence over NATO displayed an understanding of the party ladder climbing game.

    Not to worry, in your cloud cuckoo land, where the personal is unrelated to the political an old bugger like Clark is still a decent enough chap for a late night tipple in the subsidized Palace of Westminster bars. Jolly good show.

  • Mark Golding

    The EU is clearly a force for evil in the world and should be broken up.

    Clearly Kempe ‘take apart’ is your modus operandi. We remember the break-up of the Soviet Union.

    Dismantle is not demolition or destruction considering Gaza, Iraq, Syria, Libya, Afghanistan and socialism; it has to be to regrow, shine and succeed.

    I note no success at any moment, whenever, to our overwhelmingly mortifying intervention and interference to people’s lives, homes, progress and love.

    Russia now shines brightly after the decades-long hostility between NATO and the Warsaw Pact; right now we are being shown what remains – a false democracy that takes custody of our minds, greed, war, terror, poverty and death as harbingers of our own demise.

  • Peacewisher

    EU will muddle through, and UK will stay in, just about…

    Have you seen the recent polls? Perhaps surprisingly, labour have gone significantly ahead… or rather the tory vote seems to have tanked. The only reason for this can be the fallout from the Chancellor’s autumn statement – promising austerity squared.

    The most likely outcome of the election now seems to be labour or a labour/snp coalition. This will keep Britain in the EU.

  • Kempe

    ” We remember the break-up of the Soviet Union. ”

    Sounds as though you think that was a bad thing.

  • Peacewisher

    Good and bad, Kempe. Good: greater democracy and more self-determination; Bad: Unbridling of US military machine, greater US influence over Europe, more US-led wars.

  • Resident Dissident

    Imagine how you’d feel if Russian politicians had appeared in Kyiv rigging your elections, supporting a blatantly corrupt President and his family and yet again threatening to freeze you by cutting off gas supplies.

    The Ukrainians had already won their independence and were none to keen on losing it. Putin was never in the business of promoting independence for the Ukraine – and you see it in the comments of his supporters e.g. Vineyardsaker who describes their language as a country dialect, the “geologist” who Sofia linked to on the last thread but one. Perhaps someone should ask the various republics within the Russian Federation how much Putin has respected their independence during his reign?

  • Peacewisher

    @RD: Imagine yourself as a resident of Crimea back in the 1990s who wished to become part of Russia, and voted to that effect a number of times, only to be ignored by Kiev. The denial of self-determination was probably initially influenced by US, but EU seemed to be increasingly supportive of this policy that goes against UNCHR, in the 21st century…

  • Mark Golding

    Good thinking Peacewisher and well put. The break-up of USSR reflected to a certain extent the will of the Russian peoples; their heart and soul.

    That is why I strongly support Scotland’s independence and why at the eleventh hour a the monarch’s private secretary crafted words that voters should ‘think very carefully’ about ‘break-up’ – in other words voting ‘yes’ was a harbinger of doom.

    Why are humans so stupid?

  • nevermind

    It worries me that Labour is moving ahead in the polls, peacewisher, because it underlines Mark G.’s claim of human stupidity, voters actually think that they will get something different from Labour, which is utter poppycock, they will not.

    The fact that debate is still driven by polls, not actual facts on the ground only adds to the confusion and obfuscation of the public, they have lost the will to believe anyone else but their genetically embedded party politics, and Farage is not even a diversion of politics, his ideas and moves fit snuggly into the right wing spectrum.

  • fred

    “That is why I strongly support Scotland’s independence and why at the eleventh hour a the monarch’s private secretary crafted words that voters should ‘think very carefully’ about ‘break-up’ – in other words voting ‘yes’ was a harbinger of doom.”

    55% of the population of Scotland who voted voted to remain part of the UK. That is the will of the Scottish people.

    So if you support independence it must be for some other reason.

  • Peacewisher

    Yes, of course, Nevermind. Politics Century 21, is all about who can misinform the public more effectively!

  • Geoffrey

    At least money will be no object,the EU and big business will give then as much as they want!

  • Habbabkuk (la vita è bella)

    Craig

    Genuine question, out of interest : which other three (or more) people would you put forward to head the pro-EU campaign?

  • Habbabkuk (la vita è bella)

    “…and the hooded eyed Clarke.”
    ________________

    Well, it could have been the “excessively rotund Clarke” or the “unhealthy looking Clarke”, couldn’t it.

    The conclusion which must be drawn is that while pointing to physical characteristics like body weight and complexion is beyond the pale these days, comments on people’s eyes are still within the politically correct.

    Noted with thanks.

1 2 3

Comments are closed.