The Independent have Jack Straw well and truly cornered:
Writing in the Mail on Sunday, Craig Murray, who was sacked as UK ambassador to Uzbekistan in 2004 after alleging that Britain used intelligence obtained by the CIA under torture, said he attended a meeting at the Foreign Office where he was told that “it was not illegal for us to use intelligence from torture as long as we did not carry out the torture ourselves” and claimed this policy came directly from Mr Straw.
The former Foreign Secretary said: “At all times I was scrupulous in seeking to carry out my duties in accordance with the law. I hope to be able to say more about this at an appropriate stage in the future.”
I hope so too, and I hope that the appropriate time is either at the Old Bailey or The Hague.
Straw has climbed down a bit from his days of power and glory, when he told the House of Commons, immediately after sacking me, that there was no such thing as the CIA extraordinary rendition programme and its existence was “Mr Murray’s opinion.” He no longer claims it did not exist and he no longer claims I am a fantasist. He now merely claims he was not breaking the law.
His claim of respect for the law is a bit dubious in the light of Sir Michael Wood’s evidence to the Chilcot Inquiry. Wood said that as Foreign Office Legal Adviser, he and his elite team of in-house FCO international lawyers unanimously advised Straw the invasion of Iraq would be an illegal war of aggression. Straw’s response? He wrote to the Attorney General requesting that Sir Michael be dismissed and replaced. And forced Goldsmith to troop out to Washington and get alternative advice from Bush’s nutjob Republican neo-con lawyers.
Jack Straw did not have any desire to act legally. He had a desire to be able to mount a legal defence of his illegal actions. That is a different thing.
Should any of us live to see the publication of the Chilcot Report, this will doubtless be clear, though probably as a footnote to page 862 of Annex VII. That is how the Westminster establishment works.
The SNP has weighed in on the side of the angels:
Revelations by the former UK ambassador to Uzbekistan of the UK’s knowledge and acceptance of torture must see those involved answer questions on what happened.
In an article in the Mail on Sunday, Mr Murray reveals that he attended a meeting at the Foreign and Commonwealth Office where he was told that “it was not illegal for us to use intelligence from torture as long as we did not carry out the torture ourselves” and revealed that this policy came directly from Jack Straw.
Mr Murray also reveals that “there was a deliberate policy of not writing down anything… because there should not be evidence of the policy.”
Craig Murray also states that “for the past year the British Ambassador in Washington and his staff have regularly been lobbying the US authorities not to reveal facts about the UK’s involvement in the CIA torture programme” and claims that is one of the reasons the full Senate report has not been published.
The SNP has called for a full judicial inquiry to be set up as a matter of urgency to get to get to the truth of who knew what and when.
Commenting, SNP Westminster Leader Angus Robertson MP said:
“Mr Murray’s revelation of the attitude taken by then Foreign Secretary Jack Straw only adds to the urgency with which we need a full judicial inquiry.
“Craig Murray’s article lifts the lid on the UK’s role in the human rights abuses that the US Senate has reported on and there can be no more attempts to avoid answering the tough questions that have been posed.
“Clearly answers are needed just as much from the politicians who led us at the time as from those directly involved in what was going on. The need for an independent judicial inquiry is now clear for all to see.
“It is also long past time that the findings of the Chilcot inquiry were published and there can be no more delays to that report being made public.
“There needs to be a full judicial inquiry to get to the bottom of the UK’s involvement in rendition flights that passed through UK territory and the UK’s wider knowledge of the abuses that the Senate has revealed.”
Craig Murray’s revelations can be viewed on page 25 of today’s Mail on Sunday
But with Malcolm Rifkind being promoted everywhere by the BBC to push his cover-up, it remains an uphill struggle.
Agree Mary, particularly her recent work. I draw some strength from it.
….I think some imagine this being easy. Or some kind of joyful kicking of the home country, where as really looking at reality is incredibly hard. And there is little joy to be found.
But you have to think of all the people who did work for some kind of justice, that many enjoy the fruits of. I think it’s important to try and make sure these efforts or tragedies do not fade to nothing.
Unfortunately the scoundrels who hide behind patriotism have largely succeeded in convincing people the government is part of the people, and not who we won all our freedoms from, and such rights as we have.
But no, during this critical time let’s all focus on Russia or China or north Korea, because it’s doing that secures our freedoms and democracy yea?
If anyone wants a catch up of oral Chilcot evidence go here:
http://www.iraqinquiry.org.uk/transcripts/oralevidence-bydate.aspx
26th January 2010 seems to be the date Sir Michael Wood and Elizabeth Wilmshurst (who resigned before the second resolution, I think…) gave their evidence.
Sorry Peacewisher I wish I could read that comment about the Italian journalist, Guiletto Chiesa, who was trhown into prison in Talinn for his article on MH17. Never mind, President Petro Poroshenko knows who did it and will very quickly bring the culprits to task he tells Australia, at the same time asking for more arms to defeat the separatists.
http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/dec/13/mh17-investigation-ukraines-petro-poroshenko-promises-quick-resolution
I bet he does, John! But someone else will be the patsy.
Here’s an article from Chiesa in March, before the Western media got really biased. Written in English:
http://itar-tass.com/en/world/722687
I ‘note’ Ben the systematic massacre of ONE HUNDRED & THIRTY CHILDREN by the Taliban.
The scene was horrifying. Gunmen stalked through the school, shooting children as they cowered under benches and booby-trapping buildings with homemade explosives.
The fuckin BBC News BBC News BBC News elected to favor the Sidney ‘Lindt’ ‘horror’ of escaping employees and ‘heroic’ deeds.
..and we reward this corporation? …Are we fuckin mad?
@Kemp: You want to draw comparisons between which countries have bombed/ invaded/ destabilised and otherwise harmed the greatest number of other countries? I very much doubt that you would!
Here’s a list to get you started:
https://www.wikispooks.com/wiki/US_Bombing_campaigns_since_1945
China 1945-46
Korea 1950-53
China 1950-53
Guatemala 1954
Indonesia 1958
Cuba 1959-60
Guatemala 1960
Belgian Congo 1964
Guatemala 1964
Dominican Republic 1965-66
Peru 1965
Laos 1964-73
Vietnam 1961-73
Cambodia 1969-70
Guatemala 1967-69
Lebanon 1982-84
Grenada 1983-84
Libya 1986
El Salvador 1981-92
Nicaragua 1981-90
Iran 1987-88
Libya 1989
Panama 1989-90
Iraq 1991
Kuwait 1991
Somalia 1992-94
Bosnia 1995
Iran 1998
Sudan 1998
Afghanistan 1998
Yugoslavia – Serbia 1999
Afghanistan 2001
Libya 2011
Not to mention ongoing campaigns in Yemen, Somalia, Iraq and Syria.
Top that, Russia!
Correction: Chiesa was on house arrest. However, apart from being a journalist he was also a retired Italian politician. This is quite worrying behaviour by the Estonian authorities, and even more worrying that the incident was only reported selectively.
PS Despite all the excitement, the rouble seems to have survived the day with only an extra 7 roubles to the dollar.
KOWN
You really do lack intellectual honesty regarding the straw man you have created regarding my position and continue to promote. “the proposition advanced by Res Dis that those who condemned it in some countries but not others must therefore agree with it.” are your words and not mine.
What I said is that some people here take a selective approach when it comes to condemning torture by those regimes that they favour – that is not the same as saying they agree with it. Plenty of people will often turn a blind eye to the bad features of something that they support or love. and indeed probably all of us do it some of the time – remember the saying “love makes you blind” – but that is not the as saying a person supports that bad feature. Such selectivity, and turning a blind eye can of course ultimately be a very destructive thing – witness the many many years the damage caused by the fellow travellers and useful idiots of the Soviet Union. Of course the initial turning of the blind eye – then often turns into denials, apologia and worse – witness the Mr Golding’s denial re the Assad’s use of torture, Mr Goss’s claim that the crimes committed at Guantanamo were far worse than anything else committed on that island (supported by Mr Scorgie’s holiday reminiscences) and Macky’s blundering reference to causitry (please get it clear that those who take the prime responsibility for torture are the perpetrators)
You, see that’s why I don’t do that…notice the change in my IP address..I hadn’t done it to a live audience since 2003, and it was really embarrassing..The Girls dragged me out of the pub. You can’t do 9/11 here…So I thought I really am wasting my time…
So, I thought they were going to call for the ambulance..to drag me off to the Lancashire nuthouse..but I just kept my mouth shut…
Now I didn’t have much kit..and I had no sound whatsoever apart from a quiet whisper on my Android Tablet and an HDMI cable..and my 81 year old Mother-In-Laws Tablet and her Fairly new TV which to my amazement had an HDMI connection..
So I gave the Senior Teacher My Android Tablet..and said type in what you like…
But don’t mention WTC7 or they will cart us all off to the loony bin.
I rest my case.
We are fucked.
Seriously do not bother. We can’t compete..
Oh hang on a minute..what are The Girls doing now??
Tony
Well, well, what a totally predictable flop !
KOWN was generous enough to give a considered & lengthy response in addressing one of Habbabkuk’s (& other assorted Pro-Establishment Posters), ever on-going bizarre obsession, namely that most/many Posters on this Blog are motivated by a “hatred of the West”; so here was a gifted, golden opportunity for him to show that he was capable of raising to the occasion by engaging in a constructive debate, one that is well argued in good faith, based on appeals to logical reasoning, etc.
What did he delivered instead ?! He starts off with the usual dismissive bluster of “I could question a lot (most)of what you say” plus “but I’m not going to bother with an overall rebuttal”, and in this very short opening, he delivers a triple burst of ad hominems, namely that KOWN has “appointed’ himself as “spokesman”, that all of KOWN’s clearly set-out & well-argued points, were basically “specious”, and that KOWN’s points weren’t even worth addressing as ‘one cannot argue a believer out of his faith”.
He then embarks on three irrational “counter-points”; firstly, trying to smear the “not in our name” position as Anti-American, by absurdly claiming that UK has “no connection” to US foreign policies.
Secondly, he, presumably with a straight face, tries to suggest that the mass of the British people might actually support the UK’s blood-soaked immoral foreign policies & Human Rights abuses, the sort that are often high-lighted on this blog.
Lastly he tries to paint people who criticize the Western crimes as anti-Semitic conspiracy nuts.
Not surprisingly KOWN on the basis of this troll-like reply, knew he was wasting his time in trying to have a rational debate, and so rightly closed down the attempt.
So Iain Orr, maybe you might wish to revisit this little exchange;
https://www.craigmurray.org.uk/archives/2014/12/part-of-the-union/#comment-495049
There’s a famous Chomsky quote in relation to this absurd manufactured Right Wing smear of the mythical “Self-Hating Westerners;
http://noam-chomsky.tumblr.com/post/17547861328/my-own-concern-is-primarily-the-terror-and
“The fuckin BBC News BBC News BBC News elected to favor the Sidney ‘Lindt’ ‘horror’ of escaping employees and ‘heroic’ deeds.”
This is just not true – the first item on the 10 o’clock BBC News and the main item on its news website is the massacre by the Taliban.
KOWN. 1 20pm
You might not have intended it, but you speak for me too, except I can’t match your calm and forensic eloquence. Thanks.
Of course I accept that the US / UK axis doesn’t have a monopoly in the area of barbarity,
but, as you say, “If you take as a yardstick of barbarity aerial bombing then America has no peer in this, it is the most savage people-bomber the world has ever known.
635,000 tons on Korea (including 32,000 tons of napalm) 8 million tons on Indochina, including 2.5 million on Laos whom they weren’t even at war with. And then there was ’Shock and Awe’ etc.
Who, by comparison, have Russia and China bombed? Whatever their crimes, they are small beer compared to those of the US but we live in a world where according to the media up is down and black is white, where China and Russia are perpetually portrayed as the villains with us as the good guys.”
Does anyone have data on the weight of explosives is detonated in anger by the various world powers? I’d say this would be a pretty good measure for a barbarity index.
…
John. 2 56pm
“Tony Blair.
That’s a pint you owe me.”
Send me your encrypted cyber-tankard and I’ll fill it for Bliar but not for all his minions, Dad included. 🙂
…
Dad. 10 06am
Can you explain why posters critical of the US / UK wars and torture are, “subversives” and “enemies of the state”. Thanks.
*
Those crimes were committed by the Soviet Union, which is defunct. They were inspired by Communism, which is out of power — probably forever — in Russia. Russia since the fall of the Soviet Union may have committed atrocities in places like Chechnya, but, even in that recent period, the U.S. has been guilty of far worse.
Goss
Please don’t demonstrate your ignorance or selective memory re Chechenya – no one is denying that Chechen guerrillas are capable of attrocities such as Beslan and many others – but only Putin’s puppets will ignore or belittle the atrocities committed in Chechenya by Russian forces for many many years (read Hadji Murat by Tolstoy for starters)
“Can you explain why posters critical of the US / UK wars and torture are, “subversives” and “enemies of the state”. Thanks.”
I suspect the irony is beyond you love.
RD.
“I suspect the irony is beyond you love.”
Yes, for once you’re right! Can you educate me?
Peacewisher
“You don’t hate torture, Habby. Then how DO you feel about it?”
__________________
I’m not sure, Peacewisher, whether you neglect to read my comments carefully or are just trying to be cute.
I have said – third time now – that my position of torture is that I am against it.
Apologies if that seems unclear to you.
Q) Senator Black, could You remind our readers of the reasons that led You to write Your letter to Syrian President Assad?
A) I wrote to thank the Syrian Arab Army for its heroic rescue of Christians who lived along the Qalamoun Mountain Range. I was deeply grateful for the skill and valor of the Syrian troops who conquered terrorists who had occupied the Christian villages for several years. In particular, I thanked President al-Assad for the rescue of thirteen Catholic nuns who were being used as human shields by the jihadists at Yabroud. I also expressed concern that the United States had become aligned with designated terrorist groups like al-Nusra and, at the time, the Islamic State. I was troubled that we would side with radicals who conducted mass executions of prisoners of war, beheaded priests and other civilians, and even resorted to cannibalism on the battlefield.
Pravda
“Exceedingly strange that Sydney and then Peshawar follow the release of the torture report and the ensuing media storm. Just saying. Pure coincidence of course.”
________________
I note that Mary tends to disbelieve in the phenomenon of coincidence.
This is, of course, consistent with her tendancy to interpret significant events of which she disapproves as resulting from conspiracies rather than cock-ups.
But let us suppose, for the sake of argument, that she is correct in this instance and that Sydney and Peshawar are not coincidences; could she then explain in some more detail the link she sees between those two events and the release of the Senate Committee report?
Thanks.
Thought Experiment, http://www.moonofalabama.org/images4/torturethoughtexperiment-s.jpg
Well, Giyane @ 8.18 pm, you’ve set me quite a challenge. First (and probably hardest), to convince you that I understand the charge against me – and against many of my FCO colleagues, including Craig. Second, to offer either a defence or a confession that will satisfy you, as my judge. Let’s then hear your verdict, including the precise terms of any sentence.
Can we first agree on a timetable? I joined the FCO in 1968, the year it was created by merging the old Foreign Office and Commonwealth and Colonial Office under one Secretary of State. However, if we are not to get bogged down in the earlier stages of my career (including managing to change parts of Mrs Thatcher’s policy over Vietnamese Boat Refugees who were landed in Hong Kong), can we agree that what matters is the Blair interregnum and thereafter?
At the 1997 election I was Deputy Head of the FCO’s Aviation and Maritime Department; I was posted to Accra as Deputy High Commissioner in March 1998 and left after a heart attack (mild) in July, eventually to be replaced by Craig Murray, whom I first met when preparing for my Ghana posting. From October 1998 until my compulsory retirement (at age 60) at the end of 2002 I was dealing with biodiversity, primarily in the UK’s Overseas Territories. As that truncated CV shows, throughout my career (which had its ups and downs) I never resigned because of foreign policy disagreements with HMG. I had my disagreements, but I was never asked to act in ways that I considered a betrayal of my own or public UK values. Note that I had retired by the time of the UK’s participation in the US led War on Iraq. But had I still been in the FCO, I would probably not have resigned as I have never had a job with more than a fleeting involvement with the Middle East.
So, you are right that I do not understand what my crime was. Could you spell out the precise charges for the benefit of readers here; and me? Is your accusation one of criminal behaviour or do you mean moral blindness? All UK citizens (not just wage-slaves of HMG) suffer from that unless they have 20/20 moral vision. I would envy your own perfect vision…if I did not think it illusionary. Maybe that adds to my guilt as an old cynic, but I do not regard 72 as being other than the prime of life (you have a different perspective, I acknowledge).
I do have a post-FCO life (longer than this website) which I ask your Lordship to take into account. If you Google my name + Chagos you will find views which I could not have expressed in 2002, since at that time Robin Cook had accepted a unanimous High Court verdict in favour of the Chagossians: https://www.opendemocracy.net/author/iain-orr
Finally, let’s trade biblical authorities. [I warn you, I am a Protestant atheist son of the manse]. You see me as “a proper nasty piece of bent power”, a perfectly fair 21st century rendering of Matthew 23:27. But have you been thrown out of a Cathedral and a historic church – St James’s, Piccadilly, where William Blake was christened? I have, because I interrupted defective election hustings meetings in 2005 and 2012 – most candidates had been excluded by the religious overlords – to quote Matthew 22:21:” Render therefore unto Caesar the thing which are Caesar’s” (i.e. elections). That led to my being mocked in a Spectator column in 2012 which shows typical journalistic inaccuracy as to detail: http://www.spectator.co.uk/features/7807358/handshake-fatigue/
In fact the badges were of endangered bird species in the UK’s Overseas Territories.
Over to Judge Giyane.
Technicolour
“Ah, Habbakuk, I’ve enjoyed reading several of your posts recently
______________
Forgive me for not believing you
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
“…so this is in a helpful spirit”
________________
Are you sure? 🙂
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
“The myth has long been promoted that Britain refused to send troops to the Vietnam war and played little role in it.”
__________________
I’ve read your link carefully. Whereas I wouldn’t doubt your assertion that “Curtis is an immaculate researcher”, my judgement is that he is making a big case out of very slim material as far as military aspects are concerned.
But feel free to supply quotes from his article which point to British military intervention or assistance going beyond the trivial.
Well, Giyane @ 8.18 pm, you’ve set me quite a challenge. First (and probably hardest), to convince you that I understand the charge against me – and against many of my FCO colleagues, including Craig. Second, to offer either a defence or a confession that will satisfy you, as my judge. Then I’ll wait to hear the verdict, including the precise terms of any sentence.
Let’s first try to agree on a timetable. I joined the FCO in 1968, the year it was created, by merging the old Foreign Office and Commonwealth and Colonial Office under one Secretary of State. However, if we are not to get bogged down in the earlier stages of my career (including managing to change parts of Mrs Thatcher’s policy over Vietnamese Boat Refugees who were landed in Hong Kong), can we agree that what matters is the Blair regnum and thereafter?
At the 1997 election I was Deputy Head of the FCO’s Aviation and Maritime Department; I was posted to Accra as Deputy High Commissioner in March 1998 and left after a heart attack (mild) in July, eventually to be replaced by Craig Murray, whom I first met when preparing for my Ghana posting. From October 1998 until my compulsory retirement (at age 60) at the end of 2002 I was dealing with biodiversity, primarily in the UK’s Overseas Territories. As that truncated CV shows, throughout my career (which had its ups and downs) I never resigned because of foreign policy disagreements with HMG.
I had my disagreements, but I was never asked to act in ways that I considered a betrayal of my own or public UK values. Note that I had retired by the time of the UK’s participation in the US led War on Iraq. But had I still been in the FCO, I would probably not have resigned as I have never had a job with more than a fleeting involvement with the Middle East.
So, you are right that I do not understand what my crime was. Could you spell out the precise charges for the benefit of readers here; and me? Is your accusation one of criminal behaviour (which laws?) or do you mean moral blindness? All UK citizens (not just wage-slaves of HMG) suffer from that unless they have 20/20 moral vision. I would envy your own perfect vision… if I did not think it illusionary. Maybe that adds to my guilt as an old cynic, but I do not regard 72 as being other than the prime of life (that you have a different ageist perspective, I acknowledge).
I do have a post-FCO life (longer than this website) which I ask your Lordship to take into account. If you Google my name + Chagos you will find views which I could not have expressed in 2002, since at that time Robin Cook had accepted a unanimous High Court verdict in favour of the Chagossians: https://www.opendemocracy.net/author/iain-orr
Finally, let’s trade biblical authorities. [I warn you, I am a Protestant atheist son of the manse]. You see me as “a proper nasty piece of bent power”, a perfectly fair 21st century rendering of Matthew 23:27. But have you been thrown out of a Cathedral and a historic church – St James’s, Piccadilly – where William Blake was christened? I have, because I interrupted defective election hustings meetings in 2005 and 2012. Most candidates had been excluded by the religious overlords. I quoted Matthew 22:21:” Render therefore unto Caesar the thing which are Caesar’s” (i.e. elections). That led to me being mocked in a Spectator column in 2012 which shows typical journalistic inaccuracy as to detail: http://www.spectator.co.uk/features/7807358/handshake-fatigue/
In fact the badges were of endangered bird species in the UK’s Overseas Territories.
Over to Judge Giyane.
Well, Giyane @ 8.18 pm, you’ve set me quite a challenge. First (and probably hardest), to convince you that I understand the charge against me – and against many of my FCO colleagues, including Craig. Second, to offer either a defence or a confession that will satisfy you, as my judge. Then I’ll wait to hear the verdict, including the precise terms of any sentence.
Let’s first try to agree on a timetable. I joined the FCO in 1968, the year it was created, by merging the old Foreign Office and Commonwealth and Colonial Office under one Secretary of State. However, if we are not to get bogged down in the earlier stages of my career (including managing to change parts of Mrs Thatcher’s policy over Vietnamese Boat Refugees who were landed in Hong Kong), can we agree that what matters is the Blair regnum and thereafter?
At the 1997 election I was Deputy Head of the FCO’s Aviation and Maritime Department; I was posted to Accra as Deputy High Commissioner in March 1998 and left after a heart attack (mild) in July, eventually to be replaced by Craig Murray, whom I first met when preparing for my Ghana posting. From October 1998 until my compulsory retirement (at age 60) at the end of 2002 I was dealing with biodiversity, primarily in the UK’s Overseas Territories. As that truncated CV shows, throughout my career (which had its ups and downs) I never resigned because of foreign policy disagreements with HMG.
I had my disagreements, but I was never asked to act in ways that I considered a betrayal of my own or public UK values. Note that I had retired by the time of the UK’s participation in the US led War on Iraq. But had I still been in the FCO, I would probably not have resigned as I have never had a job with more than a fleeting involvement with the Middle East.
So, you are right that I do not understand what my crime was. Could you spell out the precise charges for the benefit of readers here; and me? Is your accusation one of criminal behaviour (which laws?) or do you mean moral blindness? All UK citizens (not just wage-slaves of HMG) suffer from that unless they have 20/20 moral vision. I would envy your own perfect vision… if I did not think it illusionary. Maybe that adds to my guilt as an old cynic, but I do not regard 72 as being other than the prime of life (that you have a different ageist perspective, I acknowledge).
I do have a post-FCO life (longer than this website) which I ask your Lordship to take into account. If you Google my name + Chagos you will find views which I could not have expressed in 2002, since at that time Robin Cook had accepted a unanimous High Court verdict in favour of the Chagossians: https://www.opendemocracy.net/author/iain-orr
Finally, let’s trade biblical authorities. [I warn you, I am a Protestant atheist son of the manse]. You see me as “a proper nasty piece of bent power”, a perfectly fair 21st century rendering of Matthew 23:27. But have you been thrown out of a Cathedral and a historic church – St James’s, Piccadilly – where William Blake was christened? I have, because I interrupted defective election hustings meetings in 2005 and 2012. Most candidates had been excluded by the religious overlords. I quoted Matthew 22:21:” Render therefore unto Caesar the thing which are Caesar’s” (i.e. elections). That led to me being mocked in a Spectator column in 2012 which shows typical journalistic inaccuracy as to detail: http://www.spectator.co.uk/features/7807358/handshake-fatigue/
In fact the badges were of endangered bird species in the UK’s Overseas Territories.
Over to Judge Giyane.
Thanks Peacewisher. But I really needed something more recent by him, like after the MH17 event. There are few journalists in the west not singing from the same hymn-sheet and there must have been a reason for his imprisonment. Understandably Estonia has no great love of Russia since it was occupied during what is referred to as the “Phoney War” and other titles and became part of the Soviet Union in early 1940. Hwever it was not a “Phoney War” insomuch as Germany was occupying Poland, and knowing how Stalin, and Hitler, operated, and recalling the secret Treaty of Rapallo while the Great Powers were meeting in Genoa, suggests an agreed carve-up of some of Europe. This of course is the US ambition for Ukraine with the new fascist assault to encroach on territory which for a long time was part of Russia.
It is a war that cannot be won, but should never have been started. Money and superior weaponry are the main targets of US global hegemony. They are the two evils in the world. Yes, we need a medium of exchange. We do not need weapons. Imperialism, demonstrated over centuries from Europe by Italy, Spain, France, the UK, and latterly (last 250 years) the US, to the great detriment of largely peaceful tribes and peoples, is the big evil. The native Americans would probably have never scalped western occupiers and land thieves had they not shot their relatives to pieces. Yes it was torture to be tied up and have the flesh carved from your scalp in the blazing sun so that the American bald eagle could come and peck away at your head. Native Americans do not see the bald eagle as a symbol of freedom. Only a murdering, torturing regime could do that.
Not a bald eagle of course but our own, even in Birmingham, buzzard. Nevertheless the buzzard would certainly have some of your head if you were tied up and left to die on Billesley Common, which of course used to belong to us, me and you.
Mr Goss
“You’ll be resitting maths at Blyton again this year Noddy.”
_________________
And with any luck, Mr Goss, I’ll be sitting next to you when you resit history and geography – your post on the “indigenous inhabitants of the Falkland Islands” refers.
Glenn
“But most of all, it’s because Iran does nothing in my name”
______________________
So you will advise those who post about the policies of Australia, the US, France, Canada (and several other countries which have attracted criticism on this blog)ti shut up in future?
Forgot the link. Arghh.
https://www.flickr.com/photos/127161425@N07/15650019827/
“And with any luck, Mr Goss, I’ll be sitting next to you when you resit history and geography – your post on the “indigenous inhabitants of the Falkland Islands” refers.”
Noddy, seriously, no idea what you are talking about. Does anybody?
Kempe (20h42)
Congratulations!
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Glenn
“Kemp: Are you actually incapable of distinguishing between a country’s crimes against its own people (which we do condemn, btw), and our own on-going assault against other countries which have never done us the least harm? Seriously?”
__________
There should be no need to distinguish if you and others of your persuasion are truly interested in human rights and freedoms, which are supposed to be universal and indivisible, are they not?
Feel free to explain why killing off a goodly percentage of the population of a foreign country is morally different to killing off a goodly percentage of your own country’s population.
And, finally, let me note that I have never seen a reference on here to China’s “Great Leap Forward” and that the very occasional references to the Soviet killings contain more than a whiff of 1930s -style blindness.