So far as I can follow, the Greek electorate now have the choice between voting Yes and agreeing to the IMF austerity package, and voting No and having their leaders agree to any “face-saving” variation, however miniscule, before accepting the IMF austerity package. You can be quite sure that the international elite will thoroughly humiliate Syriza by making abundantly clear that if they offer any change at all, it is absolutely miniscule. A change of nominal leader of Greece may result from the referendum, but nothing that changes the life of anybody who is not a politician. Either way in six months time we will be exactly back where we are now, only with opposition to the IMF broken as the next wave of pillage of the public sector comes.
The Euro project will continue to be extremely strong. New money will be funnelled into the pockets of bankers. It is important to recall that 100% of these bailout funds go to bankers, none of it goes to the Greek people and none of it stays in Greece. The same bankers will become the beneficiaries of servicing of new loans provided to vast corporations to buy up Greek public assets, cheap.
It would require a particular heartlessness to be indifferent to the demise of the idealistic hopes that backed Syriza. But in the end it proved they did not offer any actual choice of any significantly different outcome. There is no real choice on Sunday, no difference in outcome from which way people vote. Beware Greeks bearing rifts.
I was recently in Greece, I took cash, fantastic time – lovely people, it was very good value for money.
My guide to the Knossos palace suggested a personal tour for €100, I hesitated as it was a bit steep, she instantly dropped to just €40, whereupon I insisted on paying €50, I probably had an abbreviated tour, but we seemed all satisfied. It was interesting to see that the Minoan civilisation used to test their children by making them leap over an auroch or two.
I will return next year and hope that the wildly changing economics – where the worlds of ‘imaginary virtual trillions of currency derivative trading’ and EU banker protection are intersecting with the lives of a proud and interesting people – will mean that perhaps we’ll eventually see aurochs and odious bankers locked in the same stadium for a similar test of worth?
philw
Even very brief look at Wikipedia shows that in 2014 with all the austerity Greeks have been paid around 30% more than Czechs, Polls or Hungarians and twice more than Turks. This is considering that in general Greek economy was in much weaker position than that of those countries and not that much different that economy of Turkey. In fact Hungary and Czech economies (despite their communist past) were much more competitive in 2014.
What is different between Greece and those countries is that Greece is in Eurozone and those other countries not.
Somebody offering the one thing that Craig always fails to offer for Greece, solidarity;
http://www.truth-out.org/opinion/item/31714-greece-needs-our-solidarity-in-its-struggle-against-austerity
@CM: “the Greek electorate now have the choice between voting Yes and agreeing to the IMF austerity package, and voting No and having their leaders agree to any “face-saving” variation.”
Has the leadership promised “a face-saving variation”? I doubt it. The alternative to voting for austerity is voting for a sovereign default, which is the obvious solution.
@CM: “Actually an awful lot of it was whisked immediately offshore again in all kinds of corrupt deals. Perpetrated or partnered by the Greek elite”
Meaning that the lenders entered into deals that made the people of Greece liable for debts that in no way served the people’s interest, which is all the more reason to stiff the lenders who were either stupid or, pretty certainly, corrupt.
Good article here on how lenders victimize countries in order to loot them of islands, electrical utilities, etc., etc.
Solidarity in Glasgow, Frankfurt and Cologne.
https://twitter.com/g_mastropavlos/status/617013990040948736/photo/1
Taken from the Guardian live feed on the crisis.
Greek debt crisis: referendum to go ahead as court rejects appeal – live updates
Latest polls show country split down the middle
Tsipras: IMF report ‘great vindication’ for Greek government
Varoufakis says deal in the offing – later denied by Dijsselbloem
EC says referendum question not legally correct
Timings for Sunday’s poll
Greek banks have enough cash until Monday
LIVE Updated 2m ago
http://www.theguardian.com/business/live/2015/jul/03/greek-debt-crisis-council-of-state-to-rule-on-referendum-live
~~~
Crisis – in Greek. κρίση
1. a stage in a sequence of events at which the trend of all future events, especially for better or for worse, is determined; turning point.
2. a condition of instability or danger, as in social, economic, political, or international affairs, leading to a decisive change.
3.a dramatic emotional or circumstantial upheaval in a person’s life.
4. Medicine/Medical. a.the point in the course of a serious disease at which a decisive change occurs, leading either to recovery or to death.
b.the change itself.
5.the point in a play or story at which hostile elements are most tensely opposed to each other.
It seems to me to be totally unacceptable that the ordinary people of Greece are told they must suffer as the result of a crisis that they didn’t cause. It should be remembered that the bankers loaned billions to the Greek government in the 2000s which was predicated on a huge gamble. The gamble was that Greece would continue to grow at a rapid rate given that the euro tied its relatively weak economy to countries such as Germany. But then in 2007/08 the recession hit and the Greek economy subsequently shrank and tax revenues fell. It was during this time that the banks attempted to call in their debts. Fearing it wouldn’t pay back its loans, the bankers charged higher and higher interest rates. As Craig said, the bailout was really a bailout of these bankers because most of the loan money went straight into the bankers pockets by way of bonuses.
Found this interesting;
http://www.nytimes.com/2015/06/30/world/europe/greek-premiers-referendum-call-tests-his-power-and-conviction.html?_r=0
Doesn’t say so, but it reminded me of the suggestion that perhaps leaving the Eurozone was something he may have wanted but could not have put to the electorate during the general election, so he’s not unhappy that it worked out that he is being “forced” to do it now.
Craig, what would you do? As reintroducing the drachma would take months, this would be tantamount to announcing devaluation months in advance, by which point Greece would have nothing left. As far as I can see, Syriza are desperate to stay in the Euro and desperate to avoid the endless recessionary measures demanded.
Olympics every four years in Athens – what’s not to like?
As reintroducing the drachma would take months
No. The Government could simply announce this evening that all Euro deposits in Greek banks and all government and private obligations, debts, wages, etc., had been redenominated in Drachmas. Then everything would continue as normal, although it might take a few days to issue the paper currency if it has not already been printed.
In the currency markets, the drachma would, presumably, soon be discounted relative to the Euro, perhaps by 30 or 40%, so the effect on the Greek economy would be dramatic. Imports would collapse, exports and tourism would boom. Everyone willing to work would have a job and most people would have to work whether they liked it or not because the drachma would simply not go so far as the Euro that it replaced, e.g., for the purchase of BMWs and iPhones, etc.
Yanis Varoufakis said it would take 8 months… see 1.09 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A3uNIgDmqwI
Re the Greek situation, and the so called “Grexit” I was taken back to the time when Montenegro declared independence from Serbia in 2006.
With only a population of 700,000 the Montenegrins, had their referendum and became independent in only 40 days.
If the Greeks do vote no, and in my opinion that looks likely, and they do decide to go a quick turn over will be crucial.
Read on another blog that Austria are now thinking of seeking a EU in out referendum, I can’t confirm the story yet.
Yanis Varoufakis said it would take 8 months…
Yes, and Varoufakis has been described as a “Soros Trojan Horse”! Did you read the Saker piece that I linked to above, which is about John Perkins (author of Confessions of an Economic Hit Man) and how the bankers and corporate elite impose useless debt on corrupt governments as a means to extort public assets a give away prices, as Soros is now doing in Ukraine.
Varoufakis says redenominating bank deposits in Drachmas is different from cutting the Argentinian peso link to the USD, which happened overnight, but he doesn’t say why, because there’s actually no difference.
Varoufakis is not working in the interests of the people of Greece: he’s part of the extortion mechanism.
Technicolour.
Do you suppose the story is false? I googled it and that was the most forthcoming account.
Original info came from a commentor on wingsoverscotland.
Here is another account from a less controversial blog.
http://rt.com/news/271279-austria-petition-eu-exit/
See, here’s what the Troika, Soros and his agents intend to do to Greece:
Saakashvili Busy Selling Off Odessa to His American Friends.
More on the possible Austrian EU in out referendum.
http://rt.com/news/270064-austria-eu-petition-exit/
Some bets, you win. Others, not so much.
“But the question of what happens when the markets do open is particularly acute for the hedge fund investors — including luminaries like David Einhorn and John Paulson — who have collectively poured more than 10 billion euros, or $11 billion, into Greek government bonds, bank stocks and a slew of other investments.
Through the weekend, Nicholas L. Papapolitis, a corporate lawyer here, was working round the clock comforting and cajoling his frantic hedge fund clients.
“People are freaking out,” said Mr. Papapolitis, 32, his eyes red and his voice hoarse. “They have made some really big bets on Greece
http://www.nytimes.com/2015/06/29/business/dealbook/panic-among-hedge-fund-investors-in-greece.html?_r=0
CanSpeccy, yes there is a difference with Argentina, Argentian already had its own currency. There seem to be a consensus that producing a new currency would take months, even if not 8
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-18279522
Krugmsn;
“It’s depressing thinking about Greece these days, so let’s talk about something else, O.K.? Let’s talk, for starters, about Finland, which couldn’t be more different from that corrupt, irresponsible country to the south. Finland is a model European citizen; it has honest government, sound finances and a solid credit rating, which lets it borrow money at incredibly low interest rates.
It’s also in the eighth year of a slump that has cut real gross domestic product per capita by 10 percent and shows no sign of ending. In fact, if it weren’t for the nightmare in southern Europe, the troubles facing the Finnish economy might well be seen as an epic disaster.
And Finland isn’t alone. It’s part of an arc of economic decline that extends across northern Europe through Denmark — which isn’t on the euro, but is managing its money as if it were — to the Netherlands. All of these countries are, by the way, doing much worse than France, whose economy gets terrible press from journalists who hate its strong social safety net, but it has actually held up better than almost every other European nation except Germany.”
http://www.nytimes.com/2015/07/03/opinion/paul-krugman-europes-many-disasters.html?ref=opinion
The new Domino Theory.
Or will Greece be just the first the Failed State Domino ?
http://blogs.channel4.com/paul-mason-blog/greece-crisis-failure-economics-face-politics/4031
Everything is topsy-turvy when CanSpeccy links to the SAKER. Lol. It seems the complexion of commentators of all stripes are changing their stripes, or at least dumbing-down/modifying. 🙂
Some comparisons, from three years ago but still roughly accurate:
Greece:
€38,073 Foreign debt per person
252% Foreign debt to GDP
166% Govt debt to GDP
Spain:
€41,366 Foreign debt per person
284% Foreign debt to GDP
67% Govt debt to GDP
UK:
€117,580 Foreign debt per person
436% Foreign debt to GDP
81% Govt debt to GDP
Ireland:
€390,969 Foreign debt per person
1,093% Foreign debt to GDP
109% Govt debt to GDP
France:
€66,508 Foreign debt per person
235% Foreign debt to GDP
87% Govt debt to GDP
Germany:
€50,659 Foreign debt per person
176% Foreign debt to GDP
83% Govt debt to GDP
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-15748696
It should be noted that in the completely mad world of economics most of these countries debts are owed to each other.
Craig, up top: “It is important to recall that 100% of these bailout funds go to bankers, none of it goes to the Greek people and none of it stays in Greece.”
I’m glad you stated that, Craig, because Greece has been effectively another bank bail-out, because the ECB and IMF lent the Greek government enough money to pay-off the banks, and thus the ECB and IMF transferred the debt upon themselves.
Goldman Sachs et al cooked the books when it comes to Greece, and as such these financial hoodlums should be left alone to not-so-gently collapse.
These bank bail-outs are not Capitalism in any sense of the word. In fact it’s far more socialist welfare than anything the Greeks have been accused of.
Steadfast.
Greek PM: ‘Say No To Those Who Terrorise You’
Alexis Tsipras calls for a “proud no” in the bailout referendum as thousands hold rival rallies in Athens ahead of the tight vote.
http://news.sky.com/story/1512967/greek-pm-say-no-to-those-who-terrorise-you
20.03pm
3.7.15
This photo here of Juncker stroking Tsipras’s face made me heave. It said ‘We own you’.
http://www.theguardian.com/business/2015/jun/22/greece-day-of-destiny-farce-phantom-eurozone-summit
Article in today’s Washington Post points out how sacred a word “No [Okhi]” is for the Greeks because that was Gen. Metaxas’s answer to Mussolini’s ultimatum.
‘i”yes there is a difference with Argentina, Argentian already had its own currency. There seem to be a consensus that producing a new currency would take months’éi”
yeah course there’s a consensus: a consensus of fools and liars.
If the Greek government is any use at all, it will already have set up the printing presses ready to pump out an abundance of cheap drachmas. And even if it has’t done that, it can still make the change virtually overnight. Folks will just have to use credit and debit cards for a week or two till the banks are supplied with paper currency for small purchases.
The money the Greece owes is sovereign debt. That’s money owed by the government. There is no mechanism for compelling repayment of sovereign debt, short of war.
The bankers who lent the money to Greece did so knowing that Greece was not solvent, i.e., that Greece was running huge budget deficits over and above the 3% limit allowed members of the Eurozone. Or if they didn’t know that, then they are fools and idiots. Either way, the debt obligation is not that of the Greek people but of the discredited governments that ran up the debt.
Sovereign default to eliminate odious debts, and a swift transition to a devalued drachma to eliminate unemployment and the lack of international competitiveness are the only rational options for Greece. Anything else is a sellout by shysters fronting for George Soros and the rest of the globalist elite who run the EU and the American Empire.
@ RobG
UK:
€117,580 Foreign debt per person
436% Foreign debt to GDP
Doesn’t mean anything without context. British foreign debt is mainly financial sector debt which is balanced by debt of foreign entities to Britain.
CNN to run programming that looks like news that is paid for by advertisers. Al Jazeera: CNN to broadcast corporate propaganda as news? Companies paying media outlets to produce news-like content is a new low for network TV.
I guess this is only doing openly what CNN and other media have long been doing secretly.