The House of Lords broke no constitutional conventions in referring back Osborne’s vindictive tax credit cuts. The Tories and their media supporters are talking utter garbage on the question. Taking Britain’s appalling “constitution” for what it is, the arcane rules of procedure were not breached.
Ever since David Lloyd George and Herbert Asquith forced, by threat of massive creation of peerages, the 1911 Budget through and with it the start of National Insurance and the demise of the workhouse, there has been a convention that the Lords do not oppose or amend Finance Bills.
But the tax credit cuts were not in a Finance Bill. Osborne instead tried to sneak them through by statutory instrument. This is secondary legislation whereby a Minister signs off laws under powers delegated to him by primary legislation. Secondary legislation gets much less parliamentary time and committee scrutiny. If Osborne had put the tax credit proposals in a Finance Bill, as they certainly should have been – it is Osborne who was breaking parliamentary convention here – rather than sneak them under the table as secondary legislation, the Lords would indeed not have been able to stop them without breaching constitutional convention. Which just goes to show it doesn’t always pay to be a weasel.
Osborne is hoist by his own petard.
Aah, Tories say. But there is another convention that the Lords do not block secondary legislation.
They are making that one up. There is no such constitutional convention and there are plenty of examples of the Lords blocking secondary legislation. There is a huge quantity of secondary legislation, thousands and thousands of laws – ministers continually are signing off legal changes.
But the entire basis of the secondary legislation is that parliament has delegated to ministers, in Acts, powers to sign off uncontroversial matter. This can be, for example, the detail of regulations needed technically to enforce primary legislation, and the occasional updates needed. Only a very low percentage indeed of secondary legislation ever gets queried by the Lords, but that is not because of a constitutional convention. That is because most of it is dull stuff. But when the government abuses its authority and tries to smuggle vital changes through secondary legislation, the Lords not only has the constitutional right to challenge this abuse, it has the constitutional duty to do so.
I wish they would do it more often. For example, when the Labour Party used Westminster secondary legislation to cede 6,000 square miles of Scotland’s sea to England without parliamentary scrutiny.
Finally, there is a constitutional convention that the Lords do not oppose manifesto commitments on which a government has been elected. But the Tories rather carefully did not put tax credit cuts in their manifesto, and indeed in campaigning said they would not do it.
The British constitution is appallingly undemocratic. The fact that an undemocratic chamber has fended off a proposal from an undemocratic executive which gained the votes of only 37% of the voting electors, is not a blow struck for democracy. It is however a temporary victory for human decency in mitigating an attack on the poor.
It is also an achievement for Jeremy Corbyn. Nobody can truly believe that Labour peers would have been organised to do this under Yvette Cooper or Liz Kendall.
UPDATE Wings Over Scotland has a very different take on the Labour Party performance. That the Labour Party was not radical enough to go for the “fatal” option I am afraid I find unsurprising. It remains a deeply conservative institution. But I had not previously encountered the argument that 90% would lose the money from universal credit anyway, and it is stunningly cynical. But on close consideration, I cannot work out what it means. Either there must be some additional cut to universal credit, or that those who lost tax credit could have regained it on universal credit anyway. If anybody could explain that one further, I should be grateful.
Thatcher tried to get the Oil pipe line to Newcastle, instead of Peterhead. It got as far as outside Edinburgh and feeds into Grangemouth.
Man, 84, awaiting deportation died in handcuffs ‘due to Home Office rules’
Paramedic treating Alois Dvorzac for chest pains tells inquest of colleagues’ shock that ‘frail’ patient was taken to hospital in handcuffs and chains
http://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2015/oct/27/man-84-awaiting-deportation-died-in-handcuffs-home-office-inquest
What sort of country are we living in?
Whose turn is it next Villager? You have had a go at Tony M and now RoS.
Ad hominems are not allowed.
“Ad hominems are not allowed.”
Good thing nobody here refers to anyone else as a “troll”, in that case.
Mary 4:57 pm
This is my problem with what’s happened. Where was the outrage at sanctions on jobless people, often for the flimsiest of reasons? Cuts to the ILF and other disabled benefits? Or even the offensive idea that rape victims will have to prove their rape to the DWP if that crime results in a third child?
It’s still all about dividing poor people into the deserving and the undeserving.
You can only be deserving if you work. And aren’t raped.
Sorry. I mean “are raped and are willing to prove it outside of a court of law”.
Here are some reasons given for sanctioning people (from evidence given to a Commons committee by the Trussell Trust):
http://data.parliament.uk/writtenevidence/committeeevidence.svc/evidencedocument/work-and-pensions-committee/benefit-sanctions-policy-beyond-the-oakley-review/written/16465.html
Man who missed appointment due to being at hospital with his partner, who had just had a stillborn child.
Man sanctioned for missing an appointment at the jobcentre on the day of his brother’s unexpected death. He had tried to phone Jobcentre Plus to explain, but could not get through and left a message which was consequently not relayed to the appropriate person.
Man who carried out 60 job searches but missed one which matched his profile.
Man had an appointment at the jobcentre on the Tuesday, was taken to hospital with a suspected heart attack that day, missed the appointment and was sanctioned for nine weeks.
Man who secured employment and was due to start in three weeks. He was sanctioned in the interim period because JCP told him he was still duty bound to send his CV to other companies.
Young couple who had not received any letters regarding an appointment that was thus subsequently missed. Their address at the Department for Work and Pensions was wrongly recorded. They were left with no money for over a month.
One case where the claimant’s wife went into premature labour and had to go to hospital. This caused the claimant to miss an appointment. No leeway given.
One man sanctioned for attending a job interview instead of Jobcentre Plus – he got the job so did not pursue grievance against the JCP.
Man who requested permission to attend the funeral of his best friend; permission declined; sanctioned when he went anyway.
Working Tax Credit is not a Keynsian economic booster, it’s a good old-fashioned old Labour wage control policy which affects only low earners. God forbid that high earners should be subjected to wage constraint.
Then there’s the Hitlerian dogged determination of Ian Duncan-Smith’s rounding up of the undeserving poor. The Universal credit means that the concept of choosing not to work because you have difficulty coping with life at that particular moment will be deemed as intrinsic idleness.
By chucking out these cuts, their lordships have instinctively recognised current Tory policy as dogma-driven and vindictive. Their human intelligence and experience of real life has been noted by the electorate, as also the absence of these qualities among the purple Tories.
LOL x 5 Glenn!
That takes my nomination for the riposte of the month if not this fast closing year.
What you say Mary? C’mon now, please don’t be coy.
Sixer
Appalling list of Jobcentre callousness.
Mary, you just can’t (literally) help yourself can you?
Anyway, I hope RoS and the Tony-come-lately appreciate the fact that your milk of human kindness is flowing so generously!
I hope for your sake it’s not wasted!
“Ad hominems are not allowed.”
Good thing nobody here refers to anyone else as a “troll”, in that case.
That would be an ‘ ad trollum ‘ not an ‘ ad hominem ‘.
Oppressive/Repressive Government News cont’d.
Peers fail to defeat government over electoral register changes
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-34652008
‘To ease the transition to the new IER system, which was first agreed in 2013, nobody has so far been taken off existing electoral registers, but anyone who has not individually registered by 1 December will be removed.
Labour and the Lib Dems say by doing this then, rather than in December 2016 as was originally envisaged, risks robbing more than a million people of the chance to vote in next May’s elections, including polls for the Scottish Parliament, Welsh Assembly and new London mayor.’
I can see through you easily Villager.
Really, Mary, I believe you, I really do. Now look inwards.
Ah yes, it always warms the cockles of my heart, knowing my fan club appreciate me.
Though my most ardent acolyte Habb is strangely quiet, nevermind I’m sure he’ll pop up later claiming I’m from Spain or France or Timbuktu.
” That would be an ‘ ad trollum ‘ not an ‘ ad hominem ‘. ”
Guano, for the first time I’ve read something half-humourous coming from you, but you still got the spelling wrong. Its ‘trollem’. 😉
” Ah yes, it always warms the cockles of my heart, ”
If they get too warm, you can always go for a swim in the disputed 6,000 mile of sea and get further exercised therein. 😉
Returning to the World Teacher, Krishnamurti, who wrote numerous books, of which he and his doyen Leadbeater, made considerable profits from, others saw through their masquerade.
Helen Nearing, who had known Krishnamurti in the 1920s, said that Krishnamurti’s attitudes were conditioned by privilege because he had been supported, even pampered, by devoted followers from the time of his “discovery” by the theosophists.
She also said that he was at such an “elevated” level that he was incapable of forming “normal personal relationships.
….oops i meant to say take your cockles for a swim…and don’t forget to wear your garters, will you?
LOL RoS, i’m very glad you are studying K. Through a process of negation you might get to the positive. But, I seriously doubt your intelligence is up to it. Leave the profound stuff to others. Stick to the news, man–that’s where its at!
“Rep of Scotland,you can’t have read the article you posted. So,it is not true,then, Mark Golding.”
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So I take it Geoffrey, you believe Webber flew in specially to see “Cats” a production he wrote the score for in 1981. A production Webber has probably seen on numerous occasions.
Are you not being just a little pedantic Geoffrey?
A spokesperson for Lloyd Webber said the peer had travelled to London “at his own expense to attend the opening night of Cats”.
He voted last night because he feels that it is important for democracy that the House of Lords should not override decisions made by the elected House of Commons,” the spokesperson told The Independent.
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/tax-credits-andrew-lloyd-webber-flown-in-from-new-york-in-attempt-to-salvage-tory-proposal-a6710301.html
“LOL RoS, i’m very glad you are studying K. Through a process of negation you might get to the positive. But, I seriously doubt your intelligence is up to it. Leave the profound stuff to others. Stick to the news, man–that’s where its at!”
_________________
Oh I don’t know Alcyone I feel it’s my sense of duty to help expose charlatans if possible, and Krishnamurti appears to be one.
Helen Nearing had a romantic relationship with the World Teacher Krishnamurti, so when she says he was incapable, her words carry some weight.
Krishnamurti’s cult is just like any other flawed cult, along the lines of The Peoples Temple cult, or The Heavens Gate cult.
Im beginning to wonder if you’ve been brainwashed by the World Teacher nonsense, I sincerely hope not.
RoS, Mark Golding said it was being alleged that Lloyd-Weber was flown to London first-class at “tax-payer” expense. Is that what the news item states. Do you see the rather more-than-subtle difference.
You really are a thicko RoS. Don’t stretch-test your powers of comprehension too much. Far better you take a break than making a fool of yourself in public. Though, fool you are, I guess another one who can’t really help their self.
Now you’ve been whipped today by Fred, by Geoffrey and a couple of times by myself. Don’t you have any compassion for your-fellow-Krishnamurti-hater Mary, for whom this is all probably too much?
Well, Alcyone it would appear I’m not the only one who feels the tax payer could’ve paid for the flight, but if you want to take Webbers and a government spokesmans word that fine, by me, you’ve been taking Krishnamurti’s word for decades, thst says it all.
http://www.sunnation.co.uk/lloyd-webber-claims-he-flew-back-for-cats-premiere-not-lords-tax-credits-vote/
With first class flights from New York to London costing over £2,000, angry fans have vowed to boycott Lloyd Webber shows – pointing out the flight would have cost more than what some are set to lose in Osborne’s tax credit raid.
One online joker asked if the next Lloyd Webber show would be a musical called “Fat Cats.”
I suppose Mary feels the same way about Krishnamurti because Mary can spot a fraud when she sees one, she spotted you Villager posing as Alcyone easily enough, did see not.
Having heard the nonsense from Rees-Mogg on last nights Newsnight, he could have done worse than to have taken the advise of many of those on twitter who recommended he stick his statutory instrument where the sun doesn’t shine.
RepublicofScotland
27/10/2015 8:10pm
My desktop has no sound so I switched George Osborne on just to watch him, within your link. He didn’t half remind me of Mr Bean.
Kind regards,
John
I wrote this: “By chucking out these cuts, their lordships have instinctively recognised current Tory policy as dogma-driven and vindictive”, in the spirit of Craig’s : ” a temporary victory for human decency in mitigating an attack on the poor”
But then I remembered why their lordships attacked the WTC cuts, because they and their companies and corporations are supposed to fill up the earnings shortfalls by paying £9 – 10 minimum wage.
We will be caught between a rock and a hard place, Ian Duncan-Smith Hitlerian jobcentre gestapos and the hard-nosed Lords.
“My desktop has no sound so I switched George Osborne on just to watch him, within your link. He didn’t half remind me of Mr Bean.”
_______________
JSD, sorry to hear, or rather not hear, your sound has broken down on your desktop.
Here is Osborne coked out of his skull at PMQ’s no sound required.
http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=PAvgdUpg99Y
Alcyone
Trollem would put trolls into the 3rd declension. I deliberately put them into the lowest declension, but I should have offered a gender choice Ad Trollum or Ad trollam, in order not to offend Anon1 whose photo is of a woad-tinted female.
I’m only feeling picky after learning that all English law is calligraphed or printed onto vellum. Oh says the calligrapher on Radio 4, it’s only offal and would be sent for land-fill if it wasn’t being used for this.
Not sure if she was talking about the vellum or the Law.