The Russian Plane Made Two Ten Second Transits of Turkish Territory 344


radar

This is the official Turkish radar track of the Russian aircraft they shot down, in red. It briefly transited a tiny neck of Turkish land – less than two miles across where the Russian jet passed – twice. I calculate that each “incursion” over Turkish territory would have lasted about 10 seconds, assuming the plane was flying slowly at 600mph. That Turkey shot down the plane for this is madness, and absolutely indefensible. It is fairly obvious from the track that the plane was operating against Turkish sponsored Turkmen rebels inside Syria, and that is why the Turks shot it down.

But the inescapable conclusion is that the true madness would be for the UK to get involved in Syria and make a complex and volatile situation still worse, and risk being dragged into wider conflict.


344 thoughts on “The Russian Plane Made Two Ten Second Transits of Turkish Territory

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  • fred

    “Tried the same trick as what? I explained that the point I was making was anti-bigot, not anti-Semitic. Are you disputing that?”

    What you said was unacceptable as why you said it which is why the mods deleted it.

    Take no notice of RoS, he didn’t just get one post deleted, he got two entire threads deleted with his views on the holocaust and claimed he was just standing up for freedom of speech.

  • ------------·´`·.¸¸.¸¸.··.¸¸Node

    Fred : What you said was unacceptable

    Oh, I get it now. It’s unacceptable.

    The first three times you said it was unacceptable without giving any further explanation or reference to context, or addressing the the points I made, I didn’t get it. But now that you have told me again that it is unacceptable but not told me why, I suddenly understand – it’s unacceptable just because someone keeps saying so.

    Now that I get it, I realise what a comfort it is letting other people decide for me what to think. There was me wasting my time worrying about persecution and injustice when all I had to do was deny my reason and believe what I’m told. Sorted. Not my problem any more.

    Hey, I think I’m beginning to get the hang of this now, I can see other inconsistencies where I can apply the same trick. Up till now, it’s seemed to me that Westminster works to benefit a tiny elite at the expense of everybody else yet the media always portray the opposite impression. I’ve been thinking that it would be a good idea to escape from Westminster’s influence, when actually all I have to do is believe the media and the problem is solved. No need to change anything. Brilliant.

    Thanks Fred, now I know where you get your wisdom from and how you can always be so certain that you are right.

  • Pan

    Lysias –

    I agree with you that RT is a valuable source of fresh and varied perspective on world events.

    But RT’s catchphrase is “Question More”.

    Admirable in my view, but is that really directed at the elite?

    The only questions generally asked by members of the elite are “How much is it worth to me?” and “Are the truffles fresh?”.

  • Orcon

    There is lack of information. Jet made a ring tour and at second tour time when approaching to Turkish border, warnings started from 15th kilometer beyond the border and airzone. Pilot calculated when the Jet will be in the Turkish airzone and fired missles at that time.

  • fred

    “Thanks Fred, now I know where you get your wisdom from and how you can always be so certain that you are right.”

    They do say that when someone loses one of their senses their other senses become more acute. If someone loses their sight their hearing is enhanced. I can only think that when you lost your sense of humour your sense of self importance grew to compensate.

    Jokes about the holocaust are not acceptable no matter what the context and moderators shouldn’t have to be working out if something is allowed in one context and not in another, it is the joke which is highly offensive as what the context.

  • ------------·´`·.¸¸.¸¸.··.¸¸Node

    Thank you, Fred, now you have finally explained your reasoning.

    Jokes about the holocaust are not acceptable no matter what the context ….

    I disagree, of course. Context is everything. If the mods hadn’t deleted my ‘joke,’ you would have quoted it by now. Would that have been unacceptable behaviour on your part? Of course not. Your intent wouldn’t be to have a laugh about the holocaust. You would have been using the ‘joke’ to make a serious point about offensive behaviour. Which is EXACTLY what I was doing.

    …. and moderators shouldn’t have to be working out if something is allowed in one context and not in another

    Which is precisely why I was so clear as to my intent. I posted both ‘jokes’ side by side in the same comment with the instruction “compare and contrast.” There was no need for the mods to work out my intent, I spelled it out. They should have deleted both or left both.

    The most ironic part of this saga is that Anon1 got it. You didn’t, the mods didn’t, and Anon1 did. The biggest serial complainer about anti-semitism on this blog understood the context and respected it – he knew that the words themselves were unimportant, it’s the meaning invested in them that counts. He even gave me a grudging compliment for my comment, and after it was deleted he told me to stop moaning but didn’t cash in and claim it was offensive. Doesn’t that tell YOU something about YOUR attitude?

    I think that’s about all I’ve got to say on the subject. Doesn’t look like the mods are going to reach out an olive branch. I’ll move on, BUT THEY’RE WRONG! 🙂 If you’re going to respond, please address the points I’ve made, as I’ve addressed yours.

  • ------------·´`·.¸¸.¸¸.··.¸¸Node

    above, I meant to say :

    There was no need for the mods to work out the context, I spelled it out.

  • ozgur

    As a Turkish who is anti-Erdogan and anti-AKP , I saw you all have missing information about the situation and history on that border.

    1. As you can see on posted image MM041 is Turkish F-16 sent its missile when the SU-24 was in Turkish borders. However Turkish F-16 was in Turkish borders and never violated Syrian border.

    2. There is a history on that border. 3 years ago a Turkish F-16 had been shot in Syrian border within seconds and since then Turkey declared strict border rules that only applies to Syrian-Turkish borders. 2 Syrian air unit has been shot since ten because they violated the rules. 1 air unit has been shot as well because of the rules and then it wasn’t obvious that it was from Russia. It was obvious that it was russian made though.

    3. Warnings made when the SU-24 was approaching to border and when it was in Syrian borders. not in 10 seconds which is impossible and the warning was “Head to south” clear right?

    4. It was Russia’s mistake to not co-operate with Turkish Government on their anti-terrorist air attacks. They didn’t because it wasn’t anti-terrorist air strike they were killing Turkmen people there. So what could they say we will kill Turkmen people can we fly in your borders?

    5.About Turkmens you should read this:

    http://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-34910389

    And please read more articles on BBC they are absolutely right and correct from both perspective.

    However it wasn’t an Erdogan or AKP act it is clear that it is a responsibility for an army to strictly defend Turkish border in Syria.

    6.There will be no WW3. We all hate IS. Only difference is Russia wants Essad Turkey doesn’t.

    7. Don’t forget this . Turkey is handling more than 2 million refugees every day. They are not Turkmen. As you look from this perpective Turkey isn’t doing anything much for Turkmen at all. Shotting down an unknown air unit doesn’t mean it is made for Turkmen.

    8. Turkmen forces defending Turkmen people they are not terrorising Syrian people or they aren’t terrorist. They were living in peace for years with syrian. When there is an internal war in a country it is very normal act to defend people from your own nation if they are trying to kick off you from your own land. If there were internal war in Turkey and if Turkish forces tries to kick off Kurdish people ( can’t happen at all) the same would hold for PKK in Turkey. But there isn’t internal war in Turkey and they are voting for their own legal party that represent them on the parliament.

    It is obvious that Russia and Essad would like to use this confusion to expand their borders in Syria by kicking off Turkmen from Syria.

    Russia is making good PR and over-reacting to situation.

    Turkey is right at every move about this situation.

    Just read more.

    Turkey has power to defend it’s borders from any country unit. No matter where it is from. Rules are rules. Borders are obvious. The track of the air unit has been shared with the world. This is not a complicated subject. Russia is keeping some info secret from the world and making good PR that is it.

  • editorsteve

    I’m a big fan of peace. So, what is the author’s plan for peace, other than giving Assad and Putin unlimited ability to do whatever they want? Is that wise, or is that appeasement? Putin seems to have been encouraged by Western inaction in the past. Is that acceptable? (Maybe… I want to know what the author thinks.) There are other possibilities (partition the country, for instance — let the Alawites and their nutcase dictator and eventually his kids and grandkids run the western section and Russia keep its naval base). ISIS says it is NOT a big fan of peace. What about ISIS?

  • Tony M

    editorsteve: Government in Syria is multi-faith, all the religious sects, Sunni, Shia, Alawite, even Christian, and none, have representation in the government, including top ministerial positions. Nutty such a scheme might be, but so is religious belief; it seemed to work, democratic reforms had been instituted and more are on the way, economic reforms were began, but it became clear that what was desired by the western oligarchs was complete subjugation of and loss of Syria’s independence. It is understandable that some would envy Syria’s continuing freedom, alongside Iran, Cuba and even North Korea for their prosperity, their freedom from central bank debt slavery. Partitioning the country is exactly the long-standing Israeli plan for much of the middle-east, balkanization, ethnic cleansing genocide of the indigenous inhabitants, theft and murder, sanctified as the zionist religion. Inaction from the west is exactly what is desired, it is action by the west that has been and remains the problem. The rest is non sequiturs and concern trolling, in the ‘something must be done vein’. Editor my bum, jumped up servile roach incapable of independent thought, parroting the oligarch and banker owned media mandated discourse. I’m assuming you’re not a complete imbecile, that there is an additional strain of pure evil that elevates you above merely stupid.

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