It is nine years since I published in Murder in Samarkand that the security services can listen to you through your mobile telephone, even when it is apparently switched off. You could only prevent this by removing the battery. Shortly thereafter many mobile phone manufacturers started producing sealed phones from which you could not easily remove the battery. That was not especially a result of my publication. But I know for certain that the western security services had cooperated with the mobile phone companies in securing the software backdoor which enabled them to switch on the microphone when the phone appeared to be off. I am therefore inclined to believe the development of phones where it was hard to take the battery out was also encouraged by the security services.
Knowledge of the remote switch on was disseminated more widely after I met Richard Stallman, a hero of mine, and was able to tell him about it. He publicised it to the tech-savvy community. Eventually Edward Snowden released precisely the same information, and the mainstream media finally started reporting it, seven years after I first published it. Now, the security services themselves have admitted to having this capability, rather to the horror of extreme right wing commentators.
I learnt that the security services can bug you through your mobile phone, even if it appears to you switched off, in the course of my official duties. I was among those allowed to know, and could tell it with 100% certainty.
I have now been told something new for which I cannot give a 100% guarantee of truth, though I have no reason to doubt the good faith of the person who gave me the information, and I can say for sure they would have the access to know this officially. I am told by a good source that the security services can now activate the microphone, even if the battery has been removed and there is no power source in the phone.
To a non-technological person like me, that sounds impossible. How do you remotely power something? If it is true, will I not need a cable for my television one day? I find the notion fascinating. I have taken on board that removing the battery may not be enough, but would welcome thoughts on the plausibility of this information.
Laptops have an internal coin cell that runs the clock. It’s about the size of a penny. A single coin cell typically lasts five to ten years before needing to be replaced.
A cellphone would need considerable power to transmit encoded audio to a cellular base-station, but it could reach the nearest wireless network WiFi point much more easily. Or it could record to flash memory and transmit when the main battery is reinserted.
Unlike most people here I am an electronic engineer, and I am quite certain your phone is inacapable of recording or transmitting speech without a power source of some kind. That source does not have to be a battery. It could for example be a ‘super capacitor’ which is able to store sufficient energy to power the phone for some time after the battery is removed.
Some phones are able to be powered via close proximity to an induction loop (a charging pad). But it really does have to be ‘close’ proximity.
Unless the phone manufacturer has gone to the trouble of installing a secondary power source such as a super capacitor with the express intention on snooping on us when we think it is impossible I think your source is mistaken on this one.
Derek
Thanks. The circumstances are such that they cannot be mistaken. They are either right, or they are deliberately planting an untruth.
Have you not noticed how Apple & the US corporate titans can now afford to have a public fight over encryption?
They’ve got satellites that can zoom in to the nearest mouse dropping that’s in your pantry…
I follow stuff around the chaos computer club, never heard it mentioned. As said above, laptops have a small extra fixed battery that may be an issue..
I’m also dubious about the reason for phones with no removable battery. I’d say it’s mostly cost or other engineering reasons.
Craig the notion of the apparently powerless phone becoming a source of eavesdropping is a simple matter of technology.
The RFID (Radio Frequency Identification Device) technology is a proven and current product that is used by most supermarkets, manufacturers, or warehouses in tracking the movement of goods. This technology relies upon an external radio signal that in turn stimulates the RFID to transmit the required data. IE the tag that is on the back of your shirt is sending signals as and when it is required/told to do so!!!!
Now extending this further with a tuned circuit (resonance) power could be induced in any desired circuits that in turn can drive the various functions desired. A rudimentary version of this method is to be found in the electric toothbrushes, that evidently without any apparent electrical connection can be charged and recharged.
Furthermore the this eavesdropping technology does not rely on sim cards etc. It can be easily operated and the tickled phone can will sing it’s heart out! Although that does not mean the sim cards are not being used, as in fact the sim card itself can become a valuable asset in eavesdropping/spying on any target phone/device.
With respect to the “anonymous” over the counter sim cards etc. it is not as “anonymous” as certain operatives around here would like to make these out to be.
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Predatory mindset relies on the neglect of the prey and the ignorance of the prey to succeed on preying and destroying the target prey.
The specimens concerned are besides themselves to find the echo chamber of ignorance being breached and the light of publicity being shun on it’s ugly and nefarious methods of gaming the system to the disadvantage of we the people.
The more ignorant we the people remain of the facts the easier it is to abuse our rights, our wealth/work/worth and even our souls at the hands of the crazed lunatics, psychopaths and down right criminally insane “keyboard warriors” and their cohorts in the various sis that the said cretins move locked in step with.
– Richard Stallman.
Sounds extreme? Yet the commercial surveillance systems know your every taste, your innermost desires. They know where you are, your body temperature, your breathing and heart rates, your state of arousal through your galvanic skin response on the touch-screen.
And at any moment, your ‘phone can attract your attention and present you with a stimulus or a suggestion…
You’re weary, you’re stressed, your ‘phone has “shared” its knowledge of your appointment in 45 minutes and that you need 31 minutes to get there, so it bleeps, shows you a map and says “You’re only one minute from that Starbucks!”.
OK, you don’t have to respond, but a known proportion will…
And remember, the state now serves commercial interests, not vice-versa…
Interesting discussion here. I am not qualified to know how much of the answer it gives
http://security.stackexchange.com/questions/65382/is-it-possible-for-a-phone-to-be-transmitting-even-while-turned-off-and-the-batt/65455#65455
When I was in the States in 1959 it was easy to get a device, I don’t remember if it was for $50 or $500 (pretty sure 50) that could be used to listen in on remote landlines. They were advertised in magazines all the time (like guns). You could buy a gun by mail order; all you had to do was sign that you were over 18 (or was it 16? Memory!).
I have known for a long time the PTB could listen in to landlines and mobiles, even if they were on the hook or switched off. Since reading ‘Murder in Samarkand’ quite a few years back, I use Craig as an example of those who have confirmed it when I warn others.
But there is also the well known (to the phone companies and PTB) fact that microwave radiation is dangerous:
France: New National Law Bans WIFI in Nursery School!
http://ehtrust.org/france-new-national-law-bans-wifi-nursery-school/
Wake-Up Call: WiFi is Carcinogenic – Jeromy Johnson
http://fktv.is/wireless-wake-up-call-jeromy-johnson-27570
Wi-Fi – A Thalidomide in the Making. Who Cares?
http://www.radiationresearch.org/10-uncategorised/336-wifi-a-thalidomide-in-the-making-who-cares
The TETRA system the police and some emergency services use are extremely dangerous, and many police are aware of this:
TetraWatch! http://www.tetrawatch.net/contact/feedback.php?id=police
Barrie Trower is an excellent source of information; he has many videos up on you tube.
I solved the problem of tracking, listening in and microwave danger from my mobile by ditching it! (Though I am of course subject to all the microwaves in the environment.
Also, Smart Meters are DANGEROUS!
I am very sceptical of the idea that the microphone/camera of an uncompromised smartphone can be remotely enabled as a feature deliberately designed in. Given the proportion of handsets that are made in China I would be very surprised if the security services would hand such a gift to the Chinese authorities.
That said, smartphones are computers and computers can be compromised by malware. Once a device is infected all bets are off… and this is what the linked Guardian articles are saying.
Smartphone batteries are now generally fixed in place partly to keep costs down (reduced part count & complexity) and partly to increase the amount of space available for the battery (directly related to battery life). This is viable because of improved battery tech.
The laws of conservation of energy cannot be broken: it takes energy for the phone to signal to the mast that must come from somewhere. It cannot come from the induction loop. Your source might be referring to overcoming a minimum battery charge setting in software that prevents the phone from attempting to boot unless the battery is reasonably charged. So you think the battery is flat but it is not. Obviously this does not apply if battery is removed.
[mods: caught in spam filter – timestamp updated]
The battery when it ‘dies’ does not really die, so the screen is switched off, but date and time is saved and presumably there’s enough charge to keep the microphone and storage/transmission parts working. Possibly devices with a removable battery have a very small battery on the chip somewhere which saves the date/time, and which can possibly also power a microphone/storage/transmission function: http://apple.stackexchange.com/questions/87580/how-does-an-ios-device-keep-time-when-it-is-out-of-power
It is technically possible to make electronic devices that run off surprisingly little power. So for example there exist smart home automation products that power themselves from stray electromagnetic waves from the mains wiring in the home and are able to transmit short bursts of information a few metres to a central controller.
It is also possible to power devices using something called a ‘Peltier pile’ which generates electricity from temperature differences between objects. I have seen smart radiator thermostats using this technique.
But neither of these methods would generate sufficient power to run a mobile phone transmitter. If it were possible to power a phone simply from the heat of your hand, then manufacturers would be shouting about it.
And if your phone did contain any of these technologies, someone would have noticed. There are smart people who pull apart the latest phones and make videos on YouTube showing exactly what is in them and analyse what all the chips do.
I suppose it is possible someone is trying to feed you duff information in the hope you make yourself look foolish.
BTW: Kudos on meeting Richard Stallman. He is my hero too.
Message for the Mods: I know this is off-topic, but in the ‘End This British Atrocity’ thread, Sabrina Jean, Chair of the Chagos Support Group, she asks John Ward to contact her.
I notice the thread isn’t getting any more comments, so he may well not have seen the request.
Could you please inform him?
Derek, 11:22 am, what about the back-up battery? Have you done the sums?
The claim may as well be regarded as true. Even if the balance between storage capacity and power expenditure is currently marginal, capacity is increasing and expenditure is decreasing.
Derek, remember that the cellphone doesn’t have to transmit all the way to the nearest base-station. There are BT Fon hotspots everywhere… Or do we trust the secret software in those?
“The world’s spying agencies have tools that allow them to take over smartphones with just a text message, according to Edward Snowden, and there is “very little” that their owners can do to stop it.
The UK’s intelligence agency has a suite of tools that let it listen on phones and their owners, Snowden told the BBC’s Panorama in Moscow. All spies would need to do is send a special text message and they will be able to gain access to the camera and its microphones, the BBC reported Snowden as saying.
The set of tools is called “Smurf Suite”, according to Snowden”
http://www.independent.co.uk/life-style/gadgets-and-tech/edward-snowden-smartphones-can-be-hacked-into-with-just-one-text-message-and-then-used-to-spy-on-a6680546.html
This doesn’t address the battery issue, but if you never have a charged battery in your phone it is of no use to you.
Thanks. The circumstances are such that they cannot be mistaken. They are either right, or they are deliberately planting an untruth.
A third option is that they’re ‘avin’ a larf. However it is just within the bounds of possibility that they can detect a radio-frequency harmonic of the accoustic signal generated by a ceramic microphone. They’d probably have to be pretty near you, and if you wrap the phone in the conspiracist’s friend, tinfoil, you should be safe enough. Remember to remove the tinfoil before actually trying to use the phone…
I imagine it would be a wasted task with targeted surveillance, so many other easy ways to snoop.
Bulk collection ? I can’t imagine it frankly.
“It is also possible to power devices using something called a ‘Peltier pile’ which generates electricity from temperature differences between objects”
I’ve got one of those in the living room. It powers the fan on the top of the woodburner.
What a good idea, MJ. I’ve got an old beer cooler with a Peltier module. Some recycling is indicated…
“They’d probably have to be pretty near you, and if you wrap the phone in the conspiracist’s friend, tinfoil, you should be safe enough. Remember to remove the tinfoil before actually trying to use the phone…”
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No. Removing tinfoil allows the government rays to get in. The user should wrap the tinfoil right around his head, hand and phone, making sure to tuck the ends in to his collar. This way you are fully protected from CIA/Mossad penetration.
There’s always type writers & carrier pigeons.
http://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/jul/11/russia-reverts-paper-nsa-leaks
Pigeons remain popular among certain segments of the community around here.
For pigeon pie I imagine.
Craig
I’m not trying deliberately to downplay anything, I’m just curious.
The thought does occur that it may be deliberate disinformation intended to cast a chill on people who might be tempted to use their mobiles in furtherance of nefarious acts. If that were to be the case, it should perhaps be welcomed?
[mods: caught in spam filter – timestamp updated]
“The Thing consisted of a tiny capacitive membrane connected to a small quarter-wavelength antenna; it had no power supply or active electronic components. The device, a passive cavity resonator, became active only when a radio signal of the correct frequency was sent to the device from an external transmitter. Sound waves caused the membrane to vibrate, which varied the capacitance ‘seen’ by the antenna, which in turn modulated the radio waves that struck and were re-transmitted by the Thing. A receiver demodulated the signal so that sound picked up by the microphone could be heard, just as an ordinary radio receiver demodulates radio signals and outputs sound.”
The above technology was considered quite advanced in 1945 but please also note that the Services habitually strive to overstate and exaggerate their reach – including through deliberate rumour mongering – as this is somewhat less expensive than provisioning actual capabilities and wider coverage.
Such psychological operations are exemplified by various so-called whistleblowers, plants obligingly hyped by the sycophant media, for example Peter Wright, Cathy Massiter, David Shayler, Richard Tomlinson and Edward Snowden – all of whom served to amplify and highly publicise the reach and technical capabilities of the Services whilst simultaneously failing to so much as dent their ex-employers’ activities.
A wireless device without a battery and without a SIM card that persisted in transmitting a tangible signal would be straightforward for a laboratory professional to detect, and likely to be compromised even by amateur testers.
There is the possibility that additional hardware could be factory-installed in every new device as standard, and optionally remotely accessed thereafter, however the potential for unwelcome discovery if thousands or millions of such devices got into the public domain containing the extra component(s) might be a disincentive.
It is fairly straightforward to defeat the most determined of eavesdroppers by removing their potential tools from the space in which one is communicating.
Anyway Craig, I thought you liked an audience?
My assessment at this point is that the information is true for a proportion of smartphones, but it is a distraction from the real issue.
The commercial surveillance systems can know where you are, and they can know where nearly everyone else is, too. The systems can know much about your and most others’ emotional states. People’s locations and emotional states can be manipulated through directed media, advertising and information. And these commercial capabilities are increasing rapidly.
The commercial systems employ teams of psychological experts in order to influence individuals’ decision-making.
Soon, if not already, these commercial systems will be able to have great influence over who meets who and who doesn’t, how they are feeling, and what they will have on their minds when they do.
What is left of our free will is rapidly becoming a commercial commodity.
Fedup
“The more ignorant we the people remain of the facts…etc, etc..”
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I dislike these kinds of portentious statements.
What makes you more “the people” than me?
1. tiny secondary batteries,
2. super capacitors.
3. WiFi charging.
4, The human hody generates electrucity.
5 Sateillite GPS location of our unique DNA vectors,
Easy peasy.
Easy peasy really
This is so misleading on so many levels.
1- it is not the mobile phone but partial operation of audio transmission circuitry, that requires far less juice, than the customary touch screen led/lcd, and the rest of the features offered by the current mobile phones.
2- Given that VLSI rely on screen print technology, to read the ccts of the target VLSI is a lengthy and technical process that the sub contracted manufacturers of the IC has to specifically undertake to unlock the probable functions of the IC it is manufacturing. IE the VLSI is designed outside of the China and then manufactured in China which is a black box approach.
3- Fact that the SIS are very good at blocking the youtube in any particular locality and or erasing the packages uploaded, as well as the rest of the legislations prohibiting the broadcast or replication of data with respect to propriety rights for the work of art included the penalties for back engineering the said rights protected products would most certainly make it very dangerous for any of the “smart people” to go on waxing lyrical about their findings on youtube.
4- Peltier effect nice try, but no cigar, kind of an old technology revisited (as every self respecting truck driver knows how to keep his drinks cool)
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Clearly we are limited to our own imaginations aren’t we?
Why do you think there is such a headlong rush to quantum computing? Bulk data collection is not the the problem, it is making sense of the bulk data collected and using it to route the opposition and any credible dissent that is the holy grail now.