Helen Clark 347


I very much hope that Helen Clark becomes the new UN Secretary-General. As Prime Minister of New Zealand, she showed enormous political courage in keeping New Zealand out of the Iraq war, despite immense pressure on her from the UK, US and Australia. This pressure included the threat that New Zealand would be excluded from the intelligence sharing agreements between these powers. Given New Zealand’s history, Iraq was a big decision, and Helen Clark got it exactly right.

She similarly refused US pressure for a quiet hush-up when New Zealand caught Mossad agents forging New Zealand passports. Mossad used forged British passports in a subsequent high profile killing.

She has shown similar judgement in running the UN Development Programme, where she has won much respect for paying as much attention to the views of African nations as to the “authorities” of the IMF and World Bank.

For these reasons Clark is not the preferred candidate of the US or UK governments for the Secretary General position. But her independence does mean she is ultimately acceptable to Russia and China, whose agreement is essential as the appointment is confirmed by the Security Council. The Russians in particular feel they made a mistake in agreeing to the disappointing Ban Ki-Moon last time.

Finally may I be permitted to suggest that answer no. 5 here gives a further example of Helen Clark’s excellent political judgement?


347 thoughts on “Helen Clark

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    • lysias (DON'T FEED THE TROLLS)

      Anybody who thinks NZ’s current sending of troops is not motivated by the factor Key mentioned a year ago and that his opponents say is motivating him now is beyond being reasoned with.

      Anyway, what this is all meant to show is that what Craig says, that the U.S. threatened Helen Clark with a cutoff of intelligence at the time of the 2003 invasion of Iraq, is thoroughly believable.

      • lysias (DON'T FEED THE TROLLS)

        It turns out that the first deployment of NZ troops to Iraq happened around May 2015, shortly after Key’s statement. New Zealand soldiers arrive home from Iraq (Nov. 16, 2015). So pretty clearly it was motivated by the factor Key mentioned.

        What is at issue now is apparently a new deployment.

        • lysias (DON'T FEED THE TROLLS)

          International Response to the Threat of Islamic State in Iraq and the Levant: New Zealand Contribution:

          Announcement of New Zealand Defence Force personnel being deployed in a non-combat training mission to Iraq
          On 24 February 2015, the government announced that the New Zealand Defence Force will deploy to Iraq in a non-combat training mission to build the capacity of the Iraqi security forces to combat the Islamic State in Iraq and the Levant (ISIL).

          Up to 143 New Zealand Defence Force personnel were approved by Cabinet to deploy on a training mission, with the main body of the deployment expected to deploy in May 2015. The training of Iraqi security forces at Taji will cover a broad range of individual and organisational military skills so that Iraqi security forces can eventually assume responsibility for delivering their own training programmes.

          • Habbabkuk (flush out fakes)

            Still one year ago, I notice. 143 troops deployed for training duties hardly seems to justify your excitement, surely.

  • lysias (DON'T FEED THE TROLLS)

    Remember how the U.S. (under Obama!) used the threat of cutting off intelligence cooperation to try to get the British authorities not to confirm that Binyam Mohamed had been tortured in Guantanamo.

    • Tony_0pmoc

      RobG,

      I am currently reading L. Fletcher Prouty “The Secret Team: The CIA and Its Allies in Control of the United States and the World” written in 1971…

      I was first attracted to this guy cos of this video…does this guy know what he is talking about..does he know the truth…

      “The Origins of Oil – falsely defined in 1892”

      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vdSjyvIHVLw

      No reason to lie, when you are very old, and almost certain to die (most people do).

      but the oil ain’t going to run out.

      Tony

      • lysias (DON'T FEED THE TROLLS)

        Col. Prouty’s books were one of the sources for Oliver Stone’s movie JFK. “Mr. X” in that movie is based on Prouty.

          • Trowbridge H. Ford aka The Biscuit

            Somewhere in my papers, as I recall, is a letter from Colonel Prouty, urging me to aim higher in covert government about who was leading the plot to kill JFK which soon got mer zeroing in on DDP Richard Helms, and his Director of Executive Action, William King Harvey.

            Up until then I had been concentrating of agents like Porter Goss et al.

      • fedup

        You bet he knows it!

        CIA tried to stop the book from getting published or even distributed, after failing to steal the manuscript CIA then sent their goons to buy up the book in bulk and it was not allowed to be distributed publicly.

        Read it carefully and then map the events to see whether he knows what he is talking about?

        Dose it not ever bother you that regardless of whomever you vote in the same shitty policies carry on regardless?

        Prouty is one of the few writers I give credit to.

    • Hieroglyph

      Thread fav, The Gruan, has recently done strange things to the comment section. They’ve changed the guidelines, much stricter, and put a little ‘please be respectful’ message, just above the field where you type. Respectful of whom, you might ask. Or Masters haven’t earned my respect, and the little they had has long since evaporated. And – no comments at all on The Panama Papers. They’ve also restricted comments on many controversial matters, one of which is Turnbull’s tax dodging.

      Doubtless, this is obvious to many of us. Whoever is in fact running the show – and I doubt very much that it’s the hapless Kath Viner – they are going to finally ruin The Guardian, which I’m convinced wasn’t always this bad. It’s getting like The DM, but a bit more right-wing. I must finally stop reading, it’s just laughable really.

      • Summerhead

        Being respectful seems to make no difference whatsoever to the moderators at the Guardian. I have always been polite yet have now been permanently banned (of course, I just got a new ID and continue to comment). My great sin was to point out the link between the billionaire Poju Zabluowicz and the alleged artist Tracey Emin in a fawning article by Jonathon Jones in which he explains her latest stunt of marrying a rock. You can imagine all the torrents of diresion such an article rightly deserved yet I avoided that and still got banned. I’ve been banned before for using the Z word; I tried replacing it with zebraism or just z… but they weren’t having it. Meanwhile others with not much to say .get away with effing and blinding

    • giyane

      The reason is obvious. Cameron’s vast, concealed wealth has already blocked the toilet and the shit and loo roll is now pouring across the floor towards the carpet in the hall. Like the drains in Eton when the Thames flooded , the City of London international financial toilet is backing up the overflowing tide of the world’s financial sleaze and the shit is overflowing into the UK.

  • Tony_0pmoc

    Unlike my daughter, my son, never showed that much interest in photography except for doing something really difficult..like shooting shooting stars…so I said O.K you can borrow my camera – with the very best lens…but he never said..I thought he was just taking photos with his mobile phone..so I asked for it back…especially That Lens…

    He has been taking a photo of his new baby with it…every day.. since he was born.

    I said – lets have a look..

    Good Boy…You can have my camera back..

    Now its Yours.

    I am really impressed.

    My Grandson is just so Beautiful.

    So you can’t have a Nuclear War Now.

    Tony

  • giyane

    New Zealand was colonised by UK missionaries who took the land and gave the locals the book.
    In the back of the New Zealand mind is the possibility that Muslims might do the same to them.

    The price of protection from the threat of being attacked by US sponsored Al Qaida events is participation in anti-democratic activities in Iraq, i.e the USUKIS fostering of a false caliphate and the pretence of fighting against it.

    The UK motto is Lie, lie , lie again until you convince them you are telling the truth. but the plain truth is that both Al Qaida and Islamic State are western proxies for colonial hegemony in and beyond the Middle East, in Africa and Asia especially.

    Australia is a hub for Israel in the far East. It’s a short commute from Asian cities back to Oz. Australia has goldfish threat hysteria, the Zionist bonkers idea that the goldfish opening and shutting its mouth in its bowl is in fact an Al Qaida cell plotting to destroy western civilisation.

    Islam is a religion of respect, tolerance and individual freedom, so without constant stoking of propaganda against Islam and universal participation in its denigration, the lie that Islam is a religion of madness depravity and violence won’t stick.

    What the goldfish is actually saying is ” I am merely the human projection of the degraded imprisonment of their own souls”

    • Martinned

      Islam is a religion of respect, tolerance and individual freedom, so without constant stoking of propaganda against Islam and universal participation in its denigration, the lie that Islam is a religion of madness depravity and violence won’t stick.

      Too bad then that the bulk of that propaganda is by Muslims aimed at other Muslims.

    • Republicofscotland

      “Islam is a religion of respect, tolerance and individual freedom”

      ______________

      Gyiane

      Your above shall we call it a declaration, in your mind is a statement of truth, and that is your belief.

      *However if one were to say, declare the same values, for Christianity or Judaism, or Hinduism or Sikhism, would their beliefs be of any less value than yours? And if so why?

      One question, I would like the answer to Gyiane, and it probably applies much more to Islam, than other religions.

      Why, if one were to openly criticise or question Islamic beliefs, in certain nations around the globe,( including Western ones) fear retribution.

      You will recall a shopkeeper in Glasgow was recently murdered, by another Muslim man who travelled all the way from Bradford, he claimed the shopkeeper offended Islam, by posting “Happy Easter ” on his Facebook page.

      http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/04/06/man-from-bradford-admits-killing-glasgow-shopkeeper-asad-shah/

      Gyiane if your defence, is that that man who murdered the shopkeeper, isn’t the real face of Islam, then couldn’t that ethos be applied to all other religions, and the persons who commit murder.

      Which would bring us back full circle to my first point, which I’ve highlighted with a *

    • Muscleguy

      Actually, the missionaries were rather dilatory in getting to NZ. Many early settlers decried the lawless, amoral nature of the place. That was what Fitzroy and Darwin found when they visited.

      The real reason that the British Empire annexed Aotearoa was simply dog in the manger tactics, they were afraid the French were going to annex it instead. Bishop Pompalier had already started a settlement at Akaroa on Banks’ Peninsula near present day Christchurch. The town still has rues instead of streets or roads.

      Missionaries did come but their impetus was late and initially focussed on reforming the Pakeha. And besides Maori took Christianity married it to traditional Polynesian theology and we got the Ratana Church. A Native Church for Native people, we want no imperialists here. If you are trying to portray Maori as naive and gullible prey for Missionaries you do not know them.

  • Nihal Ananda

    Don’t know who Helen Clark is. Never heard of her before. Just went thro’ the links mentioned in the post. And saw this ….also,

    5. “Book of the year: Murder in Samarkand: A British Ambassador’s Controversial Defiance of Tyranny in the War on Terror, by former British ambassador to Uzbekistan Craig Murray.”

  • YouKnowMyName

    You’ll all have seen this reported on the BBC, no doubt?

    a superficial reading could give a historic parallel in the UK between former interior minister (Straw?) and any challengers to his previous elections (Craig?), though I may be just confused. I love the “accidentally discovered” bit, pity UK doesn’t have a ‘technical dept’ with balls.

    The Paris prosecutor’s office opened a preliminary investigation Wednesday into allegations that France’s intelligence agency monitored an aide to former French president Nicolas Sarkozy in 2012.

    Allegations that the DGSE (Directorate-General for External Security) secretly monitored the communications of Thierry Solère, a centre-right politician, back in 2012 emerged Tuesday in an exclusive report in French daily Le Monde.

    A day later, Paris prosecutor François Molins announced the launch of a preliminary investigation into the “fraudulent collection of personal data, invasion of privacy and concealment of a crime” in the Solère case.

    The covert surveillance started in March 2012, according to Le Monde, when Solère – then a dissenting member of Sarkozy’s UMP party – was running for a local election against Claude Guéant, who was France’s interior minister from February 11 to May 2012.

    In the June 2012 local election, Solère beat Guéant by a narrow margin in the Hauts-de-Seine department.

    A defeated Guèant then denounced the “lies” and “anti-republican procedures” employed by his political rival.

    According to Le Monde, the top-secret surveillance of Solère’s communication was interrupted by a chance discovery by the DGSE technical department, which caused a rift in the upper echelons of the French intelligence agency.

    Responding to Le Monde’s article on Tueday, Guèant dismissed the report as “fantasy” and denied any role in Solère’s alleged surveillance.

    Solère is currently in charge of the primary race to elect a Les Républicains presidential candidate for the 2017 race. The centre-right UMP party was renamed Les Républicains in May 2015.

    Responding to queries Tuesday over whether he intends to file a complaint into the investigations, Solère said he would “probably” do so.

    Speaking to reporters, Solère denounced the alleged covert surveillance measures and suggested that France’s intelligence services would be better used ensuring the safety of its citizens.

    “When I see that I was supposed to have been bugged by the DGSE, in March 2012, I remember the March 19 [2012] attack by Mohammed Merah,” said Solère, referring to the “Toulouse gunman” who conducted a series of attacks in southern France that killed seven people, including children at a Jewish school.

    “I cannot imagine that our services, for whom I have the deepest respect…who must ensure the safety of the French people, can be used in this way.”

    (FRANCE 24 with AFP)

    The only link between DGSE & NZ is, well, you know all of that. . .

    • Habbabkuk (flush out fakes)

      All that’s very interesting but one should note that it is by no means the first time that this sort of thing has emerged in France. One could say that internecine quarrels within the ruling party during which recourse is made to the security services for the purpose of downing a rival is almost an honourable French tradition.

  • Manda

    I admit to knowing very little about Helen Clark’s history and work but the UN is in desperate need of a strong and principled General Secretary and major bureaucratic shake up. The UN appears to have become nothing more than an instrument of US/ western and allied interests. Power needs to be returned to the General Assembly and I think UN needs some teeth, especially to use against resolution flouters!

    • Martinned

      The UN appears to have become nothing more than an instrument of US/ western and allied interests.

      As opposed to when?

      Power needs to be returned to the General Assembly

      The problem with that is that, ever since 1945, under the UN Charter the General Assembly has zero power. (And frankly, given how many stupid resolutions they adopt, I don’t see why you would want to change that.)

      • Republicofscotland

        “The problem with that is that, ever since 1945, under the UN Charter the General Assembly has zero power.”

        _____________

        Martinned.

        Well not strictly true, the UNGA, does have the power to approve its budget.

        And.

        Elect the non-permanent members of the Security Council and the members of other United Nations councils and organs.

        I would also say, it plays a significant part in the codification of International Law.

        But your point is a good one, the GA, can only make non-binding recommendations.

        • Habbabkuk (flush out fakes)

          And the UN General Assembly, although it has passed many dozens of Resolutions critical of Israel, has never once passed a Resolution accusing Israel of committing or having committed genocide

        • lysias (DON'T FEED THE TROLLS)

          I suppose the resident snitch is so insistent that Israel has not committed genocide because he knows that international law would require other states to take action against it if it is guilty of genocide. But, whether or not Israel is guilty of genocide, it is certainly guilty of practicing apartheid, and that is also a crime under international law.

        • lysias (DON'T FEED THE TROLLS)

          37/123 says that the Sabra and Shatila massacre was an act of genocide. The extent of Israeli complicity in that atrocity became clear after the fact.

          • Republicofscotland

            Lysais.

            Yes you are indeed correct, from the GA Resolution 37/123.

            Recalling the relevant provisions of the Geneva Convention relative to
            the Protection of Civilian Persons in Time of War, of 12 August 1949,

            Appalled at the large-scale massacre of Palestinian civilians in the
            Sabra and Shatila refugee camps situated at Beirut,

            Recognizing the universal outrage and condemnation of that massacre,

            Recalling its resolution ES-7/9 of 24 September 1982,

            1. Condemns in the strongest terms the large-scale massacre of
            Palestinian civilians in the Sabra and Shatila refugee camps;

            2. Resolves that the massacre was an act of genocide.

            http://www.un.org/documents/ga/res/37/a37r123.htm

            I must add it brings me no pleasure, to post information regarding the slaughter of one nation citizens by another nation.

          • Habbabkuk (flush out fakes)

            Correct – but without naming anyone as the author no one as the author.

            Therefore it is correct to say that the UNGA has never passed a Resolution accusing Israel of, or condeming it for, genocide.

    • Alger Hisss

      Nanda, every UN member nation agrees with you about the need for reform. What’s stopping them is the US and Russia, who like their perks. For the US reform means budget-cutting and head-chopping, nothing more. For countries outside NATO’s iron curtain, the problem is US subversion of the independent international civil service mandated by the Charter. The UN has long been ready to dissolve and reconstitute itself to get that.

      http://unesdoc.unesco.org/images/0007/000732/073282eo.pdf

      The UNSC 6300th meeting proceeds are enlightening. Article 30 gives the UNSC discretion over its own rules. The UNSC took that clause and ran with it to poach on ECOSOC and the GA. The GA’s deliberative purview includes UN organization and general principles of security and peace. It may call issues and threats to the attention of the Security Council. The GA stands aside only where the Security Council is actively engaged. The Non-Aligned Movement Security wants the UNSC to stick to its country-specific last while GA sets broad themes. The NAM is ready to suss it out at the ICJ, where the UNSC would get a binding dressing-down. Expect the P-5 to resist that, particularly Britain. Their sad little veto (really a US proxy vote) is their last remaining international distinction.

      A lot is going that NATO propaganda hides from you.

      https://www.globalpolicy.org/un-reform.html
      http://www.centerforunreform.org/

  • fedup

    Furhter to this comment, today we find that in the arrested terrorist’s apartment in Belgium, the following discovery has been made;

    Evidence that Isis has been scouting out European nuclear facilities is mounting after documents on a German research centre were reportedly found at a Paris attacker’s home.

    Still insisting to call it isis and not Daesh the oligarch owned media are fervently debating the material found, which is basically printing of the online documents about the research centre that is involved in research pertaining to the Hadron collider or the gigantic accelerator in Switzerland. As well as storing with some nuclear waste.

    Clearly the Daesh cannot be pumped up into some super scientific foe like the infamous Dr. No. The rag tag bunch of unemployed mercenaries recruited by Erik Prince of Blackwater and paid for by the al saud pederasts ill gotten oil funds, and equipped by the US trucks* and guns are not the brightest bulbs around. So the next best thing is to get them to nick some nuclear waste**, and mix it up to be spread around with one of their super powerful fire crackers.

    Either the story is getting so tired that we can see the ending miles away, or I am a genius? This latter point I am sure I am not, thus leaving the former point as the only credible alternative.

    What is in it for the securocrats?
    Well with Bono now taking the foreground the “commoners/great unwashed/morons” clearly will be taking note of the celebrity and will be paying closer attention to the proceedings***. Setting the scene for another one of the most fortuitous most heinous crimes that will in turn help the police state to advance its’ reach and power even further with a whole raft of new legislations to keep the lid on the great unwashed as the jobs are disappearing the services they rely on are vanishing, and they are being left in the lap of the food banks (help three times only genies).

    On goes the theatre of absurd.

    * Plumber Oberholtzer traded his van in and bought a new one from the Houston dealership and later found his old van was being put to good use in Syria by those “moderate terrorists”.

    ** Nuclear waste includes the gloves and gowns that were used in the process of research and the various other discarded remains after experimental research, and not necessarily the stuff left over form the atomic bomb making.

    *** The punters are so sick of the lying bastards masquerading as our dear leaders, that need to have some kind of stimulus to take note of the usual droning of the man on the telly filling them with utter shite and nonsense, hence the need for the celebrity spice.

  • Iain Orr

    I met Helen Clark quite often when she was Leader of the Opposition (before becoming a very impressive NZ Prime Minister), while I was Deputy UK High Commissioner in Wellington. It was striking that most visiting UK Conservative ministers wheo met her when they visited NZ were more impressed with her than with Jim Bolger, then the National Party Prime Minister. LIke Craig, I think she is very well-qualified to become UN Secretary-General.

  • Republicofscotland

    It is quite remarkable to think that its seven years, from the onset of the Chilcot Report, which is still nowhere near being publicly aired, a full thirteen years after the illegal war in Iraq.

    The lastest set back to hold the release of the report, comes in the form of the British security services. MI5/6 and GCHQ, who want to scour the documents and redact anything that may cause a security issue, which is probably code for implicating themselves. It’s now beginning to appear to me anyway, that the Chilcot Report will be a whitewash, possibly sanitised, leaving the report anything but conducive to the publics interest.

    http://www.thenational.scot/politics/chilcot-report-brushed-under-carpet-says-mp.16335

    • Martinned

      MI5/6 and GCHQ, who want to scour the documents and redact anything that may cause a security issue

      You’re right, it’s an outrage! What are they thinking!

      • Republicofscotland

        Martinned.

        Sarcasm, doesn’t befit you, stick to the intricacies of UN, Secretary General appointments, of which you ended with, “it’s unclear, it’s an unofficial rule.” You really know your stuff so to speak. ?

        Anyway the sarcastic point you make is irrelevant, they’ve had seven years to sort it out, stalling for another seven, won’t do them any favours, the publics wrath shall be vented eventually.

    • fedup

      It’s now beginning to appear to me anyway, that the Chilcot Report will be a whitewash,

      I cannot help saying; No shit Sherlock?

      The inquiry was set up to serve two purposes;

      A- to whitewash the events for the benefit of the future generations, as the future historians repeat the utter nonsense expounded by this “report” as the official iron clad historical data!!!! (I should cacao too).

      B- to draw on lessons learnt; where they got it wrong and how to lie effectively and get away with it the next time around in their next war to be fought based on a load of steaming horse shit that the future counterpart of Tonykins Miranda bLiar will wish to fight!

      The case is well proven as in the archival material that is available pertaining to WW1, and WWII that somehow are not the exact records of the era. But we can’t put our fingers on it, because the history has a way of not being truly and accurately reflecting the events past.

      Finally anyone who was expecting anything other than the grand and expensive whitewash “Report”, obliviously they have not been paying any attention to the actualities and are running around with their head up their nether regions!

      • Trowbridge H. Ford aka The Biscuit

        The inquiry was a whitewash from the start as Chilcot was already completely compromised by his handling of covert government in North Ireland, police misdeeds on the mainland, and the legal authority for attacking Iraq in the first place.

        He can cover up anything desired.

      • Republicofscotland

        Fedup.

        Yes I’m afraid the handling of the Chilcot Report, has been a utter shambles, a fiasco, from start to god knows when it will finish, if only Ronnie Biggs, and the Kray twins had the benefit of Maxwellisation on their side, (as do politicians implicated in the illegal war in Iraq) then history may have remembered them in a better light, though I doubt, they’d live up to it.

        In the link I posted, the writer of the article claims:

        “Indications are, that as many as 150 ex-ministers, civil servants and military figures will, be criticised in the report.”

        It could be very damaging to some individuals, individuals who don’t want the report to see the light of day.

  • Trowbridge H. Ford aka The Biscuit

    Seems Helen Clark’s chances of becoming the first female UN Secretary General are better than what one might expect, given the geographical issue, since Eastern Europe’s leading candidate is Irina Bukova who is seen as an allay of Putin’s, and has headed scandal-ridden Unesco.

    Neither the USA nor the UK will tolerate her appointment.

    Clark seems like the best compromise appointment, and is behaving as such by not joining the current debate on Moon’s replacement.

  • Republicofscotland

    Another interesting article that caught my eye today, is this one.

    http://www.thenational.scot/politics/anger-from-rivals-as-boris-johnsons-vote-leave-named-official-brexit-campaign-group.16319

    In which the in-out EU groups were officially named, Vote Leave and the In Campaign, both groups were given the lead campaign designation by the Electoral Commission.

    This however has upset other in-out camps who may take legal action, which could end up postponing the EU in-out vote to at least the end of the year.

    Brexit on pause hmmm?

  • lysias (DON'T FEED THE TROLLS)

    Article on Nuit debout in the Guardian suggests that, like Occupy a couple of years ago, it seeks to establish participatory democracy. Nuit debout protests are confirmation that France’s political system is broken: Five years on from Occupy Wall Street, France’s young people are rediscovering the spirit of the revolutionary uprisings in 1968.

    I was just watching today’s demonstration (lycee students being pepper sprayed by the police) in Paris on RT. The demonstration was in daylight (therefore presumably not Nuit debout). I think the RT footage was live.

    Nuit debout, un mouvement né à Paris</a.

    Où va la Nuit debout ?

    • RobG

      Lysias, I read Pierre Haski’s piece earlier today. He doesn’t quite tell it as it is. All Haski talks about is what’s going on in Paris, whereas the Nuit debout movement is nationwide. A look at the Nuit debout Wiki will tell you that demos are now taking place in more than 60 towns and cities in France…

      https://wiki.nuitdebout.fr/

      This is way up on the 30 or so cities and towns I was banging on about earlier this week.

      President Hollande & Co are bricking themselves; a bit like rabbits caught in car headlights.

        • RobG

          I’m not a French citizen.

          Following the ‘terror attacks’ in France last November a 3 month state of emergency was introduced, which effectively suspends the rule of law (does this sound familiar?). The state of emergency has recently been extended by another 3 months, and Hollande wants to write the state of emergency into the French constitution, which to all intents and purposes will turn France, the cradle of modern ‘democracy’, into a police state. Ironically, these recent protests are illegal under the state of emergency, but Hollande & Co wouldn’t dare to try and quell such a mass wave of protests.

          Hollande, Merkel, Cameron, et al, are all just puppets of Washington, in what is an utter sham of democracy.

          This is what they’re protesting about quite massively in France. Reforms to employment laws are just the glue that holds it all together.

          • Habbabkuk (flush out fakes)

            But you live there, don’t you, Rob.

            Surely you will be affected by all those evil changes in the laws which the Nuits debout people are protesting about?

            And if not, shouldn’t you be with the demonstrators as a mark of soilidarity and as a citizen of Europe.

            After all, as you say yourself, you’ve been going on about this movement on here despite not being a French citizen.

            Are you a man of action or just a bore on the internet?

    • Habbabkuk (flush out fakes)

      From one of the sources given (the Catholic newspaper “La Croix”)

      “Chaque jour, à partir de 18 heures, plusieurs centaines de personnes se rassemblent sur cette place parisienne pour une « assemblée populaire ». Des « commissions », des cercles plus réduits, se réunissent aussi pour débattre de thèmes précis. Une « université populaire » a également été créée.”

      _____________________

      It’s all so May 1968, isn’t it. Debating circles, a people’s university”…..

      ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

      “Des rassemblements du même type ont été lancés dans une soixantaine de villes en France. Des Nuits debout sont prévues aujourd’hui à Créteil, aux Lilas, au Blanc-Mesnil et à Mantes-la-Jolie. ”

      _____________________

      So not in sixty cities and towns every night – cintraru to the impression some have sought to give…..

      • RobG

        The French press are even more pro-establishment than the British press, and that’s saying something, so don’t expect to hear any honest reporting of what’s going on from the French press.

        You cite ‘The Cross’, the main newspaper in France of the Catholic church, and very right wing, yet they are reporting exactly what I’m saying: these demos have now spread to more than 60 towns and cities in France.

        • Habbabkuk (flush out fakes)

          Yes but there is not a demonstration every night in all of those 60 towns and cities.

          That was one of the two points I was making .Are you drunk already?

        • Habbabkuk (flush out fakes)

          BTW Ron – are you taking part in any of the Nuits debout? Are you walking the walk?

        • Habbabkuk (flush out fakes)

          I should expect a man of your fiery rhetoric and ardent spirit to be leading one of those Nuits debout, never mind just taking part in it!

  • Habbabkuk (flush out fakes)

    Monsieur Corbyn, a man on the left of the Labour Party, has never been favourably inclined toward the EU. In fact, he has spent much of his political life criticising it.

    What, then, to make of today’s declaration of support for staying in?

    • Habbabkuk (flush out fakes)

      That is a most harsh judgement, Anon1 – I am amazed that no one on here has yet leapt to the man’s defence.

      • Anon1

        There is nothing to defend. The ‘anti-establishment’ candidate has sold himself out. He’s a wanker and those short-sighted enough to have placed any faith in him must be feeling like wankers themselves.

    • Habbabkuk (flush out fakes)

      Or even commented on the man’s conversion to a Friend of the EU.

    • Anon1

      Nothing. Because the mods deleted any suggestion that Corbyn is a flip-flopping wanker.

      • Alan

        “Nothing. Because the mods deleted any suggestion that Corbyn is a flip-flopping wanker.”

        That just about sums up the entire Labour Party. The “We pretend to be working class so the suckers will vote for us” party!

        • Alan

          I mean, for what reason does the so-called Labour Party support the EU? So employers can import cheap labour from countries like Poland, thus undermining the efforts made by unions to support their members over years of hard struggle? The EU is a business person’s wet-dream and it was the Tory party under Ted Heath that took us into Europe. There is absolutely nothing in the interests of the working class from being in the EU.

    • bevin

      Corbyn’s constructive proposal today, for an EU wide minimum wage ought to change the, so far, extremely tedious discussion of the EU question.
      It is a direct challenge not only to the neo-liberals but to the crypto fascist emigre regimes in many of the eastern lands, who specialise in selling off their countrymen (and women) as cheap labour (and worse.)
      It is also clearly consonant with Brussels’ alleged goal of closer union. It will be interesting to see the reactions from those who specialise in them.

      • Loony

        Why is a proposal to introduce an EU wide minimum wage a “constructive proposal”?

        • bevin

          Because it puts an end to “internal devaluations” whereby living standards are constantly lowered in the hope of attracting capital to a country or driving workers out of it.
          It is also constructive in that it suggests a reform in the EU which would benefit the majority of its inhabitants- who work for wages, rather than the capitalists who currently dominate the Union.

          • Loony

            I still do not understand. Living standards can be lowered by a variety of means – for example by inflating property prices and consequent rents. Also wages are only one component, you must surely also need to take into account social security and access to services such as health and education.

            Workers are being driven out of southern Europe as a consequence of the euro. So long as that remains any other changes are mere window dressing.

    • Habbabkuk (flush out fakes)

      If course the UK now has fixed-term Parliaments and accordingly the next general election will be held in May 2020, four years from now.

      I shall leave it to readers to judge whether that is “soon”. 🙂

    • lysias (DON'T FEED THE TROLLS)

      If the Tory party splits over Brexit, the Tories may lose their majority, and that could result in a new election.

      • ble.

        It is very far from certain that the Conservative Party will split over Brexit. The Conservative Party’s instinct for survival is unrivalled.

        • bevin

          Except of course when it has to deal with a crisis on issues related to tariffs and trade. As in the case of Sir Robert Peel and, later, Arthur Balfour.
          The Tories are already split in half. It is true though that their survival instinct is almost as strong as that of the rat species, from which they are reputed to be descended.

          • Habbabkuk (flush out fakes)

            I was thinking of slightly more modern times, Bevin, but never mind.

            Whichever way the referendum goes, the Conservative party is not going to split – at least, not in any way which will lead to the defeat of the govt on a motion of confidence and, therefore, an early general election.

            If the referendum results in a staying in, the antis will grin and bear it. If the “keaves” win, the most that can happen is that Mr Cameron may bring forward his already announced departure from N° 10 and the Conservatives will elect a new leader/PM.

    • Habbabkuk (flush out fakes)

      And it is also far from clear whether Mr Corbyn will be the man leading the Labour Party into the next General Election in four years time.

      • bevin

        Very true. In this world it is impossible to predict accurately who will be alive in four years time.
        But this much is certain the next leader of the Labour Party will be running on a radical, one might almost say socialist, platform in the next election.

        And many of those currently attempting to take Corbyn’s place will either have left the party, re-adopted the opinions they claimed to hold when they joined the party, or thrown themselves on the mercy of their Constituencies as Independents, Social democrats or some other euphemism for cowards and traitors.

    • Habbabkuk (flush out fakes)

      None of the revolutions predicted by Tariq since his Oxford days has come about.

      The one revolution that did place in his lifetime – the Thatcherite revolution – he failed to predict.

      Tariq is a charming if somewhat patrician failed prophet.

  • RobG

    I think Habba is having a ‘HAL moment’ from 2001: A Space Odyssey…

    “Daisy, Daisy give me your answer do.
    I’m half crazy all for the love of you.
    It won’t be a stylish marriage,
    I can’t afford a carriage.
    But you’ll look sweet,
    Upon the seat,
    Of a bicycle made for two.”

  • giyane

    RoS:

    “Gyiane if your defence, is that that man who murdered the shopkeeper, isn’t the real face of Islam,…

    It is 100% the face of Islam in my opinion to uphold the teaching of Islam that our prophet , may God’s peace be upon him and his family is the last of the line of prophets to be sent to mankind.

    In the mosques of the Muslim Brotherhood and the Deobandis I have found translations of the Qur’an and books by the Ahmadi deviants in the library shelves, which kind of indicates to me a lack of madness. Craziness and murder is usually the product of the false teachings of the enemies of Islam.

    Look at the Syrian war. Leaving aside economic motives for colonial interference it isn’t right for Sunni Muslims to support a non-believer, Assad, a former slave of Blair and Straw’s zionist rendition agenda.
    But nor is it right for the rebels to have listened to the whisperings of CIA agents placed among the youngsters of the region to another deviance, the deviance of Takfirism of other Muslims.

    Zionists have sown hate along class, tribal and sectarian lines. The proper way to deal with that hate is to restrain your hand from acting on the hate that has been sown by the enemies of Islam to divide.. and rule the Muslims.

    I know of people who were subverted by takfirism by the Muslim Brotherhood while attending Al Azhar Islamic University, and others who were deviated by the CIA while at school in Iran. Turkey is a secular country, what place does Turkey have in teaching any Muslim his or her religion.

    You don’t compensate for 100 years of neglecting Allah by brutally murdering or raping innocent people.

    But the enemies of Islam know that the neglected sheep who have wandered away from the rest can be persuaded to murder and rape, but not the practising Muslims.

    Zionists have been breaking up the physical safety and cohesiveness of Muslim counties for centuries in order to create an alternative , deviant Islam.

    Christianity is a deviance from Islam and Judaism is a deviance from Islam. Jesus pbuh says in the gospels to the children of Israel that if the idol worshipping Samarians outside Jerusalem had witnessed the miracles God had sent to them through His power by means of his hands, they would have been sitting in sack cloth and ashes making repentance to Allah. But the children of Israel were unmoved by the miracles and saw it as magic.

    You can’t compare deviance with truth. And if you God instructs you not to make divisions amongst yourselves and then you set about slaughtering eachother, you have disobeyed Him, somewhere along the line.

    Not for me to judge and not for me to work out how they can unpick the lies that the zionists have taught them.

    When Al Qaida says they will not stop until they have stopped all wickedness, why do they not look to themselves and their own wickedness? Motes. Beams.

    the Saudis want to gain power in Damascus to greet Jesus’ second coming. Motes. beams. Or in modern terms , projections. Eh???

    • Republicofscotland

      Gyiane.

      So basically what you’re saying is that whoever interpreters the Koran, in a manner that isnt conducive to the teaching of the prophet, such as the Ahmadi Muslims, can be killed and it won’t be seen as a crime in the wider Muslim community?

      Is that what you believe? Or have I picked you up wrong?

      • Republicofscotland

        Gyiane.

        What on earth are you talking about?

        Please answer my question posed to you at 22.06pm.

        Thank you.

        • Republicofscotland

          Gyiane.

          Since you haven’t answered my 22.06pm questions, or responded to my 22.20pm comment I can only assume that my response to you at 22.06pm, is indeed a correct assumption.

          I’ll leave it at that.

          • giyane

            My answer to you was clear: You can’t compare with deviance with truth. Most religions are deviant, so there is no absolute authority to act as a touchstone for belief.

            Since you chose to pick up the opposite to what I said about killing, you can just float off on your lonely little raft by yourself.

  • Habbabkuk (flush out fakes)

    Our Transatlantic Friend is scraping the bottom of the barrel:

    “37/123 says that the Sabra and Shatila massacre was an act of genocide. The extent of Israeli complicity in that atrocity became clear after the fact.”

    _____________________

    It does indeed – but without naming anyone as the author (as RoS has also pointed out).

    And “the extent of Israeli complicity” was obviously insufficient to persuade the UN General Assembly to pass a second Resolution condemning Israel for an act of genocide.

    So my original assertion that Israel has never been condemned for committing, or having committed, genocide is not only confirmed but in fact reinforced.

    Thank you, my T.F.

    • giyane

      Your extremely unoriginal assertions prove the exact point you are not making.

      The UN has never condemned any of Israel’s frequent acts of genocide.

      • lysias (DON'T FEED THE TROLLS)

        As long as it was unclear who was responsible for Sabra and Shatila, the UN could condemn the massacre as genocide.

        Once it became clear that Israel was complicit in the massacre, the UN was afraid to issue any further condemnations of the massacre, because it was afraid of the power of Israel’s protectors, notably the U.S.

        • lysias (DON'T FEED THE TROLLS)

          If you agree with the UN that Sabra and Shatila was a genocide, then, in order to conclude that Israel has never been involved in genocide, it is necessary to believe — or at any rate to say — that Israel was not complicit in Sabra and Shatila.

        • Habbabkuk (flush out fakes)

          So the UN General Assembly was afraid? I was expecting you to come out with some such garbage and you haven’t disappointed.

        • fedup

          lysias the convention on genocide compels the other signatories of the convention to confront and end the genocide under way. Thus compelling US et al to invade the little shitty strip of land and end the days of racist supremacists enforcing their apartheid regime. all the while engaging in their relentless and slow genocide of the Palestinians.

          The power of the zionist lobby is a much hyped affair due to the exhibitionism of the “master race”. This power is akin to the Chinese influence of the 1930 US, that collapsed and evaporated overnight. The fact that zionist can become enemy number one with a few well delivered blows is not exactly a difficult task.

          Let’s face it the persistent interruptions of the resident shills in all probability have managed to turn the most pro zionist of the readers of this blog into ardent antizionists. Therefore turning this sort to public enemy No1 is far more easier than trying to invent new enemies of any sort.

          However the current thrust of the polices of the Big Oil and the banksters deem the current mess as acceptable and desirable. Hence genocide is tolerated in the name of the “free market” economy.

          • lysias (DON'T FEED THE TROLLS)

            Does raise the question of what the shills (and those behind them) think they are accomplishing.

          • Loony

            Maybe or maybe not who knows.

            What is known is that there was a genocide in Rwanda which was of complete dis-interest to the Great Powers. It was quite interesting to an Excel spreadsheet modeler in the Pentagon who produced a very detailed model demonstrating that the lives of 80.000 Rwandans was equivalent to the lives of 10 US servicemen (or women – because they believe in equality of opportunity).

            So if they did not care about 800,000 Rwandans why they should they care about a few Palestinians?

      • Habbabkuk (flush out fakes)

        That might just be because the UN (or more pertinently here, the UNGA ) does not – unlike your good self, Lysias and several others on this blog – think that Israel has carried out any such acts.

    • Habbabkuk (flush out fakes)

      These actions will fizzle out in the same way as May 1968 – and, indeed, the Occupy movement – fizzled out.

      • Alan

        Oh please, just about everything fizzles out. One day, you too will fizzle out and nobody will miss you in the slightest.

      • Herbie

        Both controlled oppositions, the first a NATO effort to take out de Gaulle and the second a Dem effort to harness and control opposition to the bankers.

        Fizzling out is kinda built in, a feature rather than a bug.

        All depends on whether or not Nuit Debout is grassroots or astroturf.

        • lysias (DON'T FEED THE TROLLS)

          The theorist of Occupy was anthropologist David Graeber. I have read — and was impressed by — his book on debt. I don’t think he would take part in a controlled opposition operation.

          He works with economist Michael Hudson, whom I also find very impressive.

          • Herbie

            ” I don’t think he would take part in a controlled opposition operation”

            That may well not have been his intention, nor indeed the intention of those many who took part.

            But the fact remains that Occupy was co-opted.

      • Mark Golding

        Mr Beale is of course a door-mat amongst the back-scratching minions who do their dirty work for power hungry corporates. A top secret paper revealed that British corporates, including banks, who feared a backlash from the 99% movement in the UK“ coordinated extensively” with the intelligence services and what is now S015 to crush dissent by fear.

        Close monitoring of senior Scottish Nationalist is part of the ‘establishments soft counter-insurgency plan where the Scotland Act 2016 was a pacification strategy designed to appease the troublesome tribes in the northern part of the kingdom. The same strategy of stability through fear of something worse and dire will be used to secure a vote to remain in the European Union.

        Mark Golding April 2016

  • BrianFujisan

    Just because the Spineless So Called U.N. Didn’t have the Balls to create an investigation Authority.. Cowards…

    At the international level, the Security Council of the United Nations immediately « condemn[ed] the criminal massacre of Palestinian civilians in Beirut » (resolution 521, September 19th, 1982). On December 16th, 1982, the General Assembly declared the massacre as « an act of genocide » (resolution 37/123). Some members asked for an official United Nations investigation authority to be created, but in vain. A few international experts, mainly lawyers, therefore established an “International Commission to enquire into reported violations of International Law by Israel during its invasion of the Lebanon”. Sean McBride, President of the International Peace Bureau in Geneva, was its Head. The experts’ conclusions were mainly based upon the fourth Geneva Convention. They asserted that “the Israeli authorities bear a heavy legal responsibility, as the occupying power, for the massacres at Sabra and Chatila. From the evidence disclosed, Israel was involved in the planning and the preparation of the massacres and played a facilitative role in the actual killings” (McBride, 1983). They also labelled the Israeli invasion as a “cultural genocide” or “sociocide”. Most of them considered that one could substantiate “the allegation of the deliberate destruction of the national and cultural rights and the identity of the Palestinian people and (…) this constitutes a form of genocide”.

    In Lebanon, a commission of inquiry was established after the massacre and placed under the chairmanship of As‘ad Germanos. But it never published its findings since the Lebanese authorities wanted to support “national reconciliation” and downplay, in that context, the Phalangists’ implication in the Sabra and Shatila killing. However, one should note that E. Hobeika, the Phalangist chief of intelligence, was killed in Beirut in a car-bomb attack on January 25th, 2005. Two days before his death, he had declared that he was ready to testify about the Sabra and Shatila massacre in front of the Belgian Court that charged A. Sharon for “genocide”, “war crimes”, and “crimes against humanity” (see below).

    http://www.massviolence.org/Sabra-and-Chatila

    • Alan

      “Just because the Spineless So Called U.N. Didn’t have the Balls to create an investigation Authority.. Cowards…”

      Aren’t all politicians cowards, afraid to make the tough decisions until they are forced to, because the people might not vote them in again? And so shall they always be.

      • nevermind

        @ Alan. Yes they are cowards because party politics and interests of outsiders has usurped the now fanciful notion of representing the electorate. Mandates are not wanted, denied and avoided as much as possible.
        Then there is the ‘safe seat show’ perpetuating the idea in these self centred individuals that they are the only ones who can be trusted with power, know how to placate the public, wipe their inept snouts with plenty of promises only to come back and say that these were only aspirational thinking.

    • Republicofscotland

      Brian.

      In my opinion, the UNGA, could’ve brought forward a resolution, but, it would never have been ratified, three of the Members of the P5 would’ve undoubtedly vetoed it, possibly more, so why bother proposing it in the first place.

      Remember the GA, can only recommend not inforce, it has to defer to do that.

      The point has been made in article 37/123, and that’s good enough for me, I shall say no more on this particular subject.

      • Habbabkuk (flush out fakes)

        RoS

        Excellent post, just three comments:

        “In my opinion, the UNGA, could’ve brought forward a resolution”

        ____________________

        The point is that it didn’t.

        ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

        ” but, it would never have been ratified, three of the Members of the P5 would’ve undoubtedly vetoed it, possibly more”

        ______________________

        Err…..no. UN General Assembly Resolutions cannot be vetoed by the Security Council as a whole or by any member(s) of it.

        They are adopted by a simple majority of the members of the General Assemblly.

        ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

        Remember the GA, can only recommend not inforce (sic)

        ___________________

        We all know that UNGA Resolutions are not enforceable. But thank you.

        ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

        ” I shall say no more on this particular subject.”

        ______________________

        Thank God. You are clearly out of your depth.

        *************************

        Over and out.

        • Habbabkuk (flush out fakes)

          That’s four comments, isn’t it. Another 100 shekels! 🙂

        • Republicofscotland

          Thank you Habb, for that interpretation, however.

          The United Nations Security Council “power of veto” refers to the veto power wielded solely by the five permanent members of the United Nations Security Council (China, France, Russia, United Kingdom, and United States), enabling them to prevent the adoption of any “substantive” resolution, as well as decide which issues fall under “substantive” title. This de facto control over the UN Security Council by the five governments is seen by critics, since its creation in 1945, as the most undemocratic character of the UN.

          • Habbabkuk (flush out fakes)

            I sometimes wonder, RoS, whether you play the ignoramus to wind up people or whether you really are stupid.

            Do you not know the difference between a UN Security Council Resolution and a UN General Assembly Resolution?

            *******************************

            PM – the United Nations General Assembly has never, in its 70-odd years, passed a Resolution accusing Israel of committing or having committed genocide.

          • Republicofscotland

            “PM – the United Nations General Assembly has never, in its 70-odd years, passed a Resolution accusing Israel of committing or having committed genocide.”

            _______________

            Habb.

            Did I at anytime claim the UNGA had passed a Resolution on the above matter, I did however claim that article 37/123, had stated.

            1. Condemns in the strongest terms the large-scale massacre of
            Palestinian civilians in the Sabra and Shatila refugee camps;

            2. Resolves that the massacre was an act of genocide. ?

  • Kieran

    As an Aotearoan, I fear that Murray is being naive about Clarke. Part of our national character here is to be suckers for flattery. We have quite a history of providing politicians whose capital is their credible independence, but as soon as they hit the international stage they become fawning lapdogs of the most scummy variety. Take the example of the Palmer Report. Here in Aotearoa Geoffrey Palmer, who was also a Labour PM but only briefly, has a much better reputation than Clarke. He still flounces around trading on his image of being a nice and honourable guy. It seems that the only people who don’t buy into it are Palestine solidarity activists because we know that for nothing more than a pat on the head, that pathetic loser betrayed the Palestinian people and helped Israel legitimise in their genocidal siege of Gaza.
    Clarke’s greatest achievement in office is simply to have presided over a pause in the ongoing neoliberal assault on human wellbeing for most people, but not all. But there was always a ruthless calculus in the background and the poorest quintile were abandoned because they don’t vote. Labour helped those just above the bottom, but they continued the neoliberal authoritarian drift of less welfare and more policing to continue amongst the most vulnerable. She wants to look good, but ultimately she takes the side of the powerful against the powerless. She is very close to the archetype of liberal politician shown by David Simon in his fictionalised portrayal of Baltimore’s Martin O’Malley.

    • Trowbridge H. Ford aka The Biscuit

      Of course, no mention of Clark’s (note spelling) problems with Meir Dagan’s menacing Mossad, and her handling of its fallout which demonstrated what a courages but most sensible politician she is.

      Her apparent assassins, as I recall, were only charged and convicted of forging a most self-serving passport.

    • bevin

      Its much more likely to be your mates from the long war against Russia, China and any middle eastern country looking askance at Israel, returning to base with some left over munitions.
      The failure of the imperialist fan club to take responsibility for the actions of their proxies, such as al qaida al nusra and the rest is bad enough, the fact that you crow about it and blame the critics of imperialism for them indicates either a deep seated dishonesty or an inability to connect dots that would shame a new born monkey.

      • Anon1

        So blowing up airports is an anti-imperialist critique now is it? Or are we going full retard with a false-flag?

        Either way it’s ATFOTW. Even in Belgium.

        • bevin

          You really don’t understand do you?
          The terrorists roaming around these airports are veterans or mimics of the ‘jihadi’ militias that the US and its allies have mobilised so that they can be directed against Syria, Russia, Libya or whatever the target of the hour is.
          The explosives that they use are from supplies such as those that the US government is currently requesting freight firms to contract to move from Romania to Jordan. Three thousand tons of arms and munitions to make sure that the terrorists don’t run short of either !
          All this is common knowledge. The US barely pretends that it is not arming these terrorists, many of whom have their passages from Europe to Turkey, Lebanon or Jordan facilitated by local police forces and security agencies.
          That is why, when ever some poor slob blows himself up or goes amok in a shopping mall, it is invariably discovered that he was “known to the police” or that he had been under observation by MI 5/6 or that he had recently returned from Turkey etc.
          Do I think that these are false flag operations?
          Certainly not, most of them are the result of sheer incompetence generously larded with callous disregard for public safety.
          The authorities, whoever they may be, regard civilian casualties with utter indifference. It is the same attitude they have towards the unemployed, the sick and the poor: they don’t give a toss.
          Capisce?

          • Resident Dissident

            So who was arming these terrorists

            “The three men had, between them, amassed weapons worth up to €25,000 (£19,000) – including three Kalashnikovs, Soviet-made Tokarev pistols, a Skorpion submachine gun, and a rocket launcher”

            Why it looks like it was Bevin’s friends – those mafia bosses and oligarchs are not too fussy as long as the price is right.

            .http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/france/11351855/How-did-the-Paris-terrorists-get-hold-of-their-weapons.html

          • lysias (DON'T FEED THE TROLLS)

            Eastern bloc weapons from Bosnia could have been supplied by all manner of suppliers.

            For example, US to directly arm Kurds with Russian weaponry through CIA (Aug. 2014):

            Weaponry, said to be light arms and ammunition, to be brokered though CIA who are better positioned to supply militia

            The Obama administration has announced it will arm the militia forces of Iraqi Kurdistan, to prevent the fall of the final bastion of pro-US territory in Iraq.

            The weaponry is said to be light arms and ammunition, brokered not through the Department of Defense – which supplies Baghdad and its security forces with heavy weaponry – but the CIA, which is better positioned to supply the Kurdish peshmerga with Russian-made guns like AK-47s that the US military does not use. The news was first reported by the Associated Press.

            I believe I remember reading that the U.S. supplied the mujahedin fighting the Soviets in Afghanistan in the 1980’s with Russian weapons provided by Egypt.

      • fedup

        bevin I shall shamelessly steal your last paragraph and shall enjoy using it.

        However to reiterate/further validate your points about the current mess that is the result of the nihilistic US empire’s policies in the mid east and elsewhere, Prof. James Petras has forwarded this article Peteras’ article has been complimented by this pertinent article

        As often is the case in the arc of war and destruction, various video packages show the remnants of the Roman civilisation that have lasted the ravages of the centuries, often telling of the magnificence of the structures that were left in the Romans wake. Comparing and contrasting the edifices bequeathed by the Romans to US empire’s handy work in the current era. This we find to be a path of destruction and bomb craters that are strewn across anywhere these latter day Mongol have passed through.

    • giyane

      Those stooges and patsies of MI5/6 who oblige UKplc with terror scares for the MSM to publish were already being groomed 100 years ago by the British Raj. Might well be Sikhs Buddhists pretending to be Muslims.

      Spot on Anon 1

      • Anon1

        All that education and you turn out a brainwashed, Jew-hating Islamoloon and part-time electrician.

        Your mother must be so proud.

        • Habbabkuk (flush out fakes)

          Well, he has claimed that he went to a leading public school and Oxford but why should we take his word for it?

          Be that as it may, I would put his grudge against life down to the fact that his daddy didn’t buy him a Mini as a present for getting to Oxford (allegedly) 🙂

  • Trowbridge H. Ford aka The Biscuit

    Really pathetic how all topics, especially this one, descend into the expected, irrelevant disputes among the expected teams of trolls, either innocently or diliberately.

    HC’s chances of becoming the UN’s next SG allow all to express their usual whims and biases in some kind of focused way, especially the anti-semites, misogynists, and russophobes, but they hijack any real discussion to suit their usual antipathies and hangups.

  • Jim

    There’s a good piece on Neo-liberalism by George Monbiot in today’s evil MSM Guardian, if anyone’s interested.

    • Trowbridge H. Ford aka The Biscuit

      It’s a good recommendation of Clark to be the UN’s next SG, though he doesn’t mention her while absolving Naomi Klein for joining the neoliberals after her first implicating them in the growing disasters, thanks to GW’s and the Pentagon’s exploitation of their playing God with their space heater, starting with heating up Hurricane Katrina.

      • Jim

        I didn’t see the ‘absolving Naomi Klein of joining the neoliberals’ bit Trowbridge! Perhaps because he didn’t? He just referenced her book and ideas, among which were the ones you mention at the end there (Katrina and its exploitation etc).

        • Trowbridge H. Ford aka The Biscuit

          He certainly did absolve Klein, either deliberately or ignorantly, since she first wrote a article about the man-made disasters, entitled “Acts of God or Acts of Bush (on the Orders of God)” which she completely forgot about in putting together The Shock Doctrine.

          See my article about it all on Veterans Today.

          • Jim

            We’ll have to agree to disagree on the interpretation absolving then. He references her book and ideas, and makes no value judgement on her which agrees with yours.

          • Habbabkuk (flush out fakes)

            Jim

            I like your posts because they are accurate and come from someone who seems to be able to see through bullshit and think for himself.

            Please post more.

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