Scottish nationals have two supra-national citizenships. One is UK citizenship, the second is EU citizenship. In democratic referenda over the past two years, Scots have voted clearly to retain both citizenships.
Unfortunately it is not possible to respect both democratic decisions of the Scottish people, due to a vote by other nationalities. So where you have democratic decisions which cannot both be implemented, which does democracy demand should take precedence?
It is not a simple question. The vote to retain EU citizenship was more recent and carried a much larger majority than the earlier vote. In addition it was made crystal clear during the campaign that it may require the overturning of the earlier vote. So on these grounds I believe the most recent vote must, as an exercise in democracy, have precedence.
In these circumstances the announcement by the First Minister that she is initiating the procedure on a new referendum for Scottish independence from the UK, in order to retain Scottish membership of the EU, is a sensible step.
But I believe there is another step she should take. The democratic conflict of decisions brings about a conflict of interests between the institutions to which Scotland elects national representatives.
To resolve this requires a supplementing of current constitutional arrangements. The First Minister should therefore convene a National Convention consisting of all Scotland’s elected national representatives – its MEPs, MPs and MSPs united in a single democratic body merged on a one member one vote basis.
This body should draw up recommendations for the independence referendum, including on the future constitution, economy including currency, and international alliances of an independent Scotland, and should oversee negotiations with the EU. The next referendum could therefore present voters with a more definite prospectus for what the new Scotland will look like.
The world has changed radically. We must not be afraid to think outside the UK prescribed box in defining Scottish solutions.
I hope such a prospectus would include an independent Scotland establishing its own currency.
It was my one serious reservation about the last independence vote, especially as there were even calls for Scotland to join the Euro.
But the road is clear to independence, and I hope Scotland does it right.
But wouldn’t Scotland be compelled to move towards adoption of Euro? Is there a value in creating a new currency with all the turmoil that would create, if it has a limited shelf-life?
Scotland would probably be obliged to join the Euro once all requirements were met. One of those requirements would be an independent Scottish currency, the second would be two years membership of the ERM ii (without any major fluctuations in that period). Signing up to the ERM is voluntary. Even if it wasn’t I’m sure an unacceptable fluctuation could be created if required. We could NOT be forced to join the Euro.
Absolutely Eddie, it’s crucial that we issue our own currency. That is the most vital economic lever we could have at our disposal. Currency unions don’t work too well as we’ve seen and given the ECB’s fetish for running surpluses (even when demonstrably counterproductive) we certainly wouldn’t see the kinds of changes we’d hope for with them holding the purse strings.
No, there should be no compulsion. It’s entirely acceptable (and I would argue, strongly preferable to the point of being non-negotiable) to be part of the EU while having your own currency – e.g. UK, Denmark, Sweden, Czech Rep… all still have their own currencies.
The UK and Denmark have Treaty opt-outs from the single currency.
Last time I looked, Sweden met the Maastricht criteria but given the sensitivity of the question in Sweden it was cut some “political slack”. 🙂
The EU.
Should just call it NATO really.
As I understand it, meeting Maastricht criteria makes a country eligible to join the single currency. It doesn’t require joining it though.
I believe it does (at least for the post-2004 Member States) but as I do not have the documentation at hand at the moment I cannot be entirely affirmative.
Martinned, perhaps?
Just think of the jobs that will be created rebuilding Hadrian’s wall. How is Scotland going to pay the bill with the price of oil so low?
The oil price is significantly higher than earlier in the year, even more so in pounds because the exchange rate movement
The price of oil is currently dropping.
Hadrian’s Wall ran parallel with the Tyne. The new one would have to be built along the Tweed and Esk.
Presumably the English would pay for it – Trump said that Mexico would pay for the wall along the Rio Grande. But as Tom Russell pointed out, “if you deport all the Mexicans, who’s gonna build your wall?”
As long as we issued our own Sovereign currency the price of oil or the price of the wall building itself would be inconsequential provided there were sufficient REAL resources available to build such a wall…skilled tradesmen, materials, fuel, earth moving vehicles etc. If there were insufficient resources then demand would outstrip supply and you would see prices of e.g. bricklayers inflate and the building progress would slow. Real resources are what matters and we have plenty of them.
Clearly I’ve ignored the ludicrous premise of your question but I thought I’d give you an answer anyway. If you’re keen for a wall you can build one yourself. Scotland will keep the oil as well, thanks. It’s going to get pricey down south the way Sterling is going.
That is essentially what Ireland did in 1919.
Ireland actually kept the Pound Sterling for 6 years from independence in 1922 until 1928, then pegged the new Punt to Sterling. Scotland would have to adopt the Euro, I suspect.
I first saw pounds, shillings, and pence when I visited my relatives in Ireland in 1965.
And I first saw a dollar bill at a coin and notes dealer’s shop when I was about eight years old.
Sorry, can you be clearer, Lysias?
I don’t think the Republic of Ireland (or whatever it was called then) built a wall in 1919. Nor did it adopt its own currency.
With reference to the contents of Soutron’s post, what was it that “Ireland essentially did in 1919”?
Thank you.
Do you trust Labour to turn up?
Me neither, except to sabotage it, as would Ruthie, although would swear blind before, she would not.
Scorpion, Frog and a river
The current SNP are a Murdoch sponsored temporary phenomenon (to take seats from Labour) . I’m Scottish and despite being a non voter have come to despise their low life corruption and control freakery.
This is what Murdoch distortion has done to the Scottish parliament.
“As a former political editor of the Sunday Herald, I can testify that the parliamentary committee system has been one of the big disappointments of devolution. Too many MSPs seem incapable of stringing more than a sentence together, far less asking a killer question. You would get a tougher grilling by pupils at a secondary school hustings than you would at some committees.”
http://rattle.scot/move-along-nothing-to-see-here-police-and-politicians
Thanks to Murdoch, my MP is a 20 year old phony called Mhairi Black who paints herself as the voice of the lower working classes.
She is actually a middle class woman who lives in the wealthiest part of town in a house she shares with her father. In addition to being his daughter’s election agent, he owns a UK wide business with 5 English regional managers (none in Scotland). That’s him on the left.
http://live-n-learn.co.uk/home/meet-the-team
Looks like an outfit that lives on local authority contracts. An example of the new parasitic capitalism brought into being by the so called “reform of the public sector”.
Indeed, that’s exactly what it is.
Reply ↓
Eric Smiff
I was kind of with you, until you started on Mhairi Black. I know very little about her, except she is one of the very few – possibly only MP in Westminster – who has attempted to do anything whatsoever for Women born in the 1950’s who completely unexpectedly – many didn’t even know as recently as this year – that the UK Government had stolen 6 years worth of Pensions from them.
That amounts to 155.65 x 52 x 6 = £48,562.80
My wife and I hadn’t planned our pensions, thinking that the Government would steal nearly £50,000 from us.
Neither did my Ex girlfriends – nor many thousands of other women across the UK
A private company would never be allowed to get away with such blatant theft as Mhairi Black eloquently points out.
“Mhairi Black speech slams Govt on pensions”
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MZwGzfNQZUo
Will the New Government do anything about it – cos the current thieves are on their way out.
You called her a phony – She might be gay – but she’s got more balls than anyone else in Westminster – on that performance. So what if she’s only 20 years old?
Tony
Here Here Tony_Opmoc -at 21/22yrs Mhairi Black is perfectly rounded and a vigorous, dependable and tenacious political power-house for social equality and comfort and amenity for ordinary people.
Sounds more like pouring gas on a raging inferno.
HAHAHA
Result, they will punish us some, but longer term this country finally has some real hope of constructive change. Not Obama kind of change but the real thing.
As for Scotland in the EU they will see no independence ever, just poverty and ruin, their choice of course.
At a thirteenth of our national debt, Scotland’s 5m people would be saddled with a £140 BILLION of the £1800b current debt (an even WORSE state of affairs than the 12m Greeks’ debt of 350b euros). And all because of Osborne cocainomics, £1000 BILLION burrowed recklessly (over the past 6 years) to finance tax cuts for the rich – and all that “supply side” economics has done is create low paying/zero hour jobs mostly for East European migrants.
Its really very simple, the only reason why an Algerian (or Rumanian) London tube driver gets £40k in the UK for the same job for which s/he would hardly earn £4k back home is because he has become eligible for a share of the RETURN on the trillion pound capital built up in the tube network over the last hundred years. Instead of ONLY BRITS being entitled to this return on the capital accumulated within the country, we have a very dumb CM (and like do-gooders or beholden to East European pussycats) saying a newly arrived Rumanian (or Pakistani or Indian or Chinese) must get the same privilege as those Englishmen born here, or its racism ????!!!!!!!
God help us from these dumb woolly bearded fools ! BTW-that’s wot won it for the brexiters.
Allow me to shed some light on what might happen to Scotland inside the EU.
The glorious EU. Greek students now forced into prostitution to buy a cheese pie or sandwich.
http://hellenicinsider.com/the-glorious-eu-greek-students-now-forced-into-prostitution-to-buy-a-cheese-pie-or-sandwich/
The Greek financial crisis has sent thousands of teenage girls to the streets, not to protest, but to earn a living; however, their hourly earnings are barely enough to buy them a cheese sandwich, according to one researcher.
So no real change then for Scotland.
That’s an argument for not joining the single currency. Not directly relevant to EU membership.
2014: 55% voted “yes” to Union with UK
2015: 53% voted for parties other than the SNP
2016: 65% voted “yes” to the EU.
The picture isn’t quite as obvious as Craig suggests and the legal validity of any referendum would still be in the gift of the UK.
Rob
Your statistics simply prove what I said, that Scots voted both for maintaining UK citizenship and for maintaining EU citizenship, but with a much larger majority for the latter.
Your 2015 figure is intellectually dishonest by only presenting the SNP vote. Pro-Independence parties got over 50% of the vote.
Thanks for the correction.
One should also ask how important an issue is: does the UK union rank as more important than membership of the EU to those of us living in Scotland? I believe that England is Scotland’s biggest trading partner by miles. A “hard” EU border at Carlisle might not be an attractive proposition and so the question is which union matters the most?
The peoples of the UK have three supranational citizenships. About half identify most strongly with the third – as citizens of the world.
http://www.globescan.com/images/images/pressreleases/BBC2016-Identity/BBC_GlobeScan_Identity_Season_Press_Release_April%2026.pdf
British citizenship is not only incompatible with European citizenship, it conflicts with the rights and responsibilities of peoples in any sovereign state. Scottish independence is a necessary consequence of British aggression, suspension of non-derogable rights, and impunity for grave crimes of concern to the international community. The killer contradiction in British rule is the inescapable authority of the UN Charter, the International Bill of Human Rights, and the Rome Statute.
“Scottish independence is a necessary consequence of British aggression, suspension of non-derogable rights, and impunity for grave crimes of concern to the international community.”
And who carried out those said acts of aggression? That “little Scotlander” Tony Blair, along with his sidekick Gordon Brown, and of course the ubiquitous Alastair Campbell. Yes “Little Englanders” get the finger pointed at and accused of “Racism” etc, etc,
And now we want a calm Stroll to Independence completely pretending to be so innocent in any acts of aggression. Yea right!
Craig
Question: will the EU accept scottish membership of the EU?
There is as I understand it a hold on new members for 5 years.
Is independence based on being part of the EU? Will the indepence campaign still happen if the EU reject Scotland. What is plan b
What is your view. Thank you
I don’t recall that “hold” but if you are right (you may well be) I doubt if it would be applied to an independent Scotland. For reasons which are so evident I shan’t bother recalling them.
Why Habby, I’m not so sure. Before I accept another whore into my harem, I might want to make sure she is viable?
I feel quite uncomfortable with Craig’s understanding of Economics. We also have enough evidence of his thus .far failed attempts at Politics to seriously question his political, and to that extent personal, judgment. My advice to him would be the same to anybody: stick to the knitting. What Craig does best is to write; I don’t even believe him to be a particular interesting, leave alone riveting, or indeed charismatic orator.
Getting real seems to be one of Craig’s little weaknesses. Of course I wish him luck. As I do the Scottish people, but when it comes to the crunch, I shall take a ringside seat to see them toss their hats into the air and charge towards the windmills.
To think, before the First World War, little more than a hundred years ago, there was no such thing as passports.
Nor Easyjet. To be fair on recent experience – Gatwick has improved tremendously, though we may simply have been lucky.
It was unbelievably awful the previous 2 years.
No Easyjet!? It must have been very hard on the young, wealthy darlings when they were doing the Grand Tour.
My Dad crossed the USA alone in about 1928 West To East hitch-hiking. It took him about 6 months. He was a Merchant seaman and rejoined his ship in New York. The ship went the long way round.
I believe Imperial Russia had them (or something equivalent).
The anti-EU groups in the member states will be taking encouragement from the Brexit vote as we know.
However it must also be true that Scotland battling to stay in the EU will act as a great rallying symbol to all supporters of the EU. Thus earning Scotland considerable goodwill from EU member states’ governments. That will be very useful for indyref2.
The finest prospect in Scotland will be the high road to Brussels.
Exactly. Although Dr. Johnson’s namesake won’t agree.
If there is to be an Independence Referendum in Scotland that presupposes the EU as an alternative to the UK then time is of the essence.
There is a General election in Spain on Sunday – with over 70% of the electorate identifying as “euro skeptic” and having the opportunity to vote for the very flexible policy making entity currently known as Unidos Podemos.
France and The Netherlands have already confirmed that they intend holding a referendum similar to that held in the UK.
The Italian Northern League is to launch a petition aimed at securing a referendum in Italy. This idea has the support of the recently electorally victorious Five Star Movement.
Maybe all of this will create an opportunity for Scotland to adopt the euro but be required to share this currency with no-one else.
“France and The Netherlands have already confirmed that they intend holding a referendum similar to that held in the UK.”
_________________________
Really??????
Can you source that (prederably to an official govt announcement)?
An Independent Scotland, part of the EU.
Does no one else see the irony in that?
When did independent stop meaning independent?
/ɪndɪˈpɛnd(ə)nt/
adjective
adjective: independent
1.
free from outside control; not subject to another’s authority.
James,
Amongst other things, I have being trying to explain that here for the last few years. You did a better job than me, but Craig Murray still won’t get it..and He was born in Norfolk to an English Mother and Scottish Father, and was very English when standing as a prospective Independent MP for Norwich North, but He is Scottish in Scotland, and an International Globalist in truth. I don’t quite see what is Independent about That.
I can see I’m in danger of getting banned again. I must be more polite..Incidentally, my family history is very similar to Craig Murray’s as far as the Scottish component is concerned….but I’ve never claimed to be Scottish, even though I got married there.
Tony
I have an English father (well…Yorkshire, which is an independent state) and a Scottish mother, and I always describe myself as half English and half Scottish.
What that is effectively saying is that it’s ok for people of all other nationalities to have a cosmopolitan outlook, have mixed ethnicity and have an acceptance of the need for nations to be interdependent and to combine all these things with a defence of or an aspiration to their nation’s sovereignty.
Somehow though, Scots, unique among all nationalities, cannot do that. It’s Scottish nationalists place to be narrow and obsessive and ,unlike other nations, we cannot combine nationalism with internationalism.
I believe in the last referendum,I believe it’ts share would have been held by the remainder of the UK and the Scots would have reimbursed the interest. Now that the UK has voted to leave the EU finances are likely to be more precarious and the remainder of the UK is unlikely to be able or willing to do so.
Could an independent Scotland service it’s share of the debt ? and what sort of interest rate are lenders likely to demand from an independent Scotland ?
I wonder if the EU will now be be more receptive to the possibility of a independent Scotland that wants EU membership. Afterall the EU did nothing to help the case of Scottish independence in 2014, it abstained and left Westminster in a strong position.
Now England has firmly opted for a Brexit, will the SNP push for a second Scottish referendum, the main problem with a second referendum is the same old question on, currency, pensions, etc, if independence is to be obtained those questions and others must have solid answers. If not it will just be a rerun of 2014.
It was also interesting to note, that the Brexit camp hadn’t set up contingency plans in the event of Brexit winning. That in itself led me to believe that Brexit, didn’t think it would win, but it did.
Going by tv reports a two years time period will be needed to negotiate a UK exit, however I’m pretty sure that Iceland was mentioned as the only nation to ever have left the EU, and those negotiations took three years, according to tv reports.
Also going by tv reports, one or two have said that the vote was very close and that there may be a possibility of a second in out vote.
My money is on Boris Johnson to become the next PM.
Re my above comment it should read Greenland and not Iceland.
No, that was Greenland.
OK, you spotted that yourself.
What are the terms of divorce? Cameron gave himself 90 days to assuage the People’s Will.
When will the issue of Trident come up?
When its pointed West
When it’s required to shore up Scotland’s new economy and currency?
I meant to say that Scotland’s share of the UK debt would still have been held by the remainder government under the terms of the previous referendum,ie the rump would ultimately be responsible for servicing and repaying it in the case of default.
How big would the Brexit majority have been if Jo Cox had not been murdered?
That’s all forgotten about now. They should have realised the public’s memory is now down to less than 3 days.
A bit bigger
Perhaps smaller but that – as so many other things – is pure and not particularly productive speculation.
But perhaps I’ve missed something in your question, if so please clarify?
“Unfortunately it is not possible to respect both democratic decisions of the Scottish people, due to a vote by other nationalities”
If you think it’s bad in the UK (only three other nationalities) just wait till you join the EU where there are almost thirty of the blighters. Wall to wall foreigners I tell you.
Before calling another referendum it would probably be wise for the SNP to consult with the EU to see if Scotland is eligible for membership and, if so, what the terms of membership would be. Having to pay 50% more in membership fees than you get back in grants might be a hard sell, as indeed might be the inevitable requirement that Scotland joins the euro.
I have no idea whether you are technically right about Scotland’s eligibility or not, M.J. But if Scotland does vote to leave the U.K. and remain in the E.U., I can’t see the Europeans kicking up too much of a fuss. I would guess that any and all rules to the contrary will be bent or ignored and that Scotland would be ushered in quickly. I wouldn’t be surprised if they didn’t waive any requirement to join the Euro. Should Scotland come to such a decision she will be patted – at least for a while.
Spain would probably object, because of the precedent it would set for Catalonia.
Yes, could be, but what really matters is whether the Germans would object. My guess is – and it is only a guess – that the Germans would treat Spanish objections like the British Labour Party treat the complaints of the British working class: “they have nowhere else to go”. (Or they didn’t have)
Joining, not remaining. Independence, remember?
I think I know what you’re saying, M.J., but I doubt whether the Europeans will be that fussy. I suspect that they’ll be keen to soften the kick in the guts they’ve just had by keeping Scotland in if they can. If that means defining Scotland to already be in, never having left – arguably not an unreasonable position, given the vote – then I’m sure they’ll do so. Those who make the rules can break or ignore the rules.
“she will be patted – at least for a while.”
_______
The question is if she’s barking and wagging her tail at the same time, how do you know which end to believe?
Good points MJ.
I wonder if an independent Scotland, would be seen a the “successor state” and adopted into the EU immediately. Id imagine the EU can be accommodating when it suits them.
Craig,
I like the contrast of your title with the sentiments usually associated with 24 June.
“Lay the proud usurpers low!
Tyrants fall in every foe!
Liberty’s in every blow!
Let us calmly stroll!”
Why stroll, even calmly, when you can be wheeled out on a wheelchair?
Anybody who doesn’t understand that the phrase “independence within the E.U.” is oxymoronic doesn’t want to understand it and thus never will.
But that is Scotland’s choice and she should take it as soon as possible.
The E.U. has just lost one of its most important provinces and a large net contributor. Once British remittances dry up, somebody else will have to cough up the difference (Hint: it won’t be Greece or Portugal) and the effect on the taxpayers thus shaken down is predictable. If the ‘Leave’ vote is respected by both the British and European establishments – and as pointed out by Craig the other day, matter of factly and without any suggestion of outrage, that is by no means certain – then the E.U. has to decide whether to get vindictive with Britain in order to discourage others from jumping ship. If, not wishing to jeopardise trade, they go softly and amicably and thus others do fancy going it alone (not by any means certain, but nevertheless plausible) then it is by no means clear what type of E.U. Scotland will be voting to remain part of. These are interesting times.
They don’t have a good track record of playing hard ball with Britain do they…besides, after today I’d give the EU 4 years tops.
I hope that you’re right, James.
Trade is occurring now. There’s no reason for it to stop.
Co-operation is occurring now – even with Norway and Switzerland, though some people must be puzzled that we can co-operate with them when they aren’t in the E.U.. There’s no reason for co-operation to stop.
Peace between European nations is extant now, and there is no reason for that to change. (Happily if anybody invested in an Anderson shelter and a tin hat on Dodgy Dave’s prompting they seem to have wasted their money)
All this can and should continue without the need for an imperialistic, bloated supra-national body staffed with over-remunerated troughers and all their hangers-on. If the E.U. doesn’t try to turn nasty, then in a few years time people will wonder what all the fuss was about.
Do You mean like Neil Kinnock?
If the EU truly is on its last legs, then for the SNP to use membership in the EU as the means to successfully secede from the UK could well be a step on the way to true independence within a few years.
EU collapse didn’t seem likely yesterday.
http://blogs.spectator.co.uk/2016/06/frexit-italexit-support-eu-dwindles-france-italy/
Will the UK’s decision to leave the EU have a domino like effect across Europe, already some of the EU’s right wing parties in France and the Netherlands, are calling for a in out vote for their nations.
On Jeremy Corbyn, some of the Labour party are calling for his resignation, the fact he was on the losing side for some is enough to try and oust him as leader will they succeed? Has Corbyn betrayed his own principles, as a man who previously had strong views against Europe, he looked half hearted in his attempts to persuade voters to vote remain.
It was as though he didn’t actually believe in what he was asking others to believe in.
It would be interesting to know how he actually voted.
MJ.
Yes it would be very interesting to see how Corbyn voted, on David Cameron, the BBC described him as a lucky politician, but his luck had ran out spectacularly today, they added.
Corbyn, like any informed adult realises the EU is a brutal, Neoliberal dictatorship.
Here he is in 1975. He obviously couldn’t stomach supporting it.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uw9EfSynAqY&feature=youtu.be
Eric Smiff.
The BBC World Service reported from Brussels today, on the monumental decision of Britain voting to leave the EU. It was suggested however that the EU will now look to Eastern Europe to bolster its membership, look out for EU invitations all round in that region.
That looks good too. After all, who’s going to foot the bill. Not us anymore, that’s for sure. Has Barack “move to the back of the bus, er, sorry, queue” O’Bomber said owt yet, or is he ignoring us in a sulk? Plotting his revenge, perhaps? After all, we’ve deliberately ignored a direct order.
What is trhis conflation with right wing parties and anti EU attitudes. Look at the left – for example the Five Star Movement in Italy. Look at Unidos Podemos whose role in Spain will be known within the next few days
Look at the UK. The most decisive vote against EU membership came from the Welsh. These are the people who were subjected to Churchill deploying troops against them and who were especially selected to be crushed by Margaret Thatcher, these are the people who refused to be starved into strike breaking, These are the people who played a seminal role in the defense of Madrid from Franco’s army of Africa.
You surely do not believe that the Welsh rejected the EU because of their right wing bias.
Loony.
You make good points there, I very much doubt if the good people of Wales, suffer from right wing bias.
Looking at the map on how Britain voted it struck me that poorer areas tended to vote leave instead of remain it could be that those less fortunate haven’t seen or felt any great benefit from Britain having EU membership.
Well, as you know, ‘right wing’, ‘fascist’ and even ‘racist’ and ‘bigot’ are just go-to pejoratives for people who don’t want to engage in honest debate and are largely if not wholly stripped of their actual meaning.
In order for those who are addicted to using such terms to be aware of the things you have listed they would have to devote less time to lecturing people on their innate racism and more to taking a genuine interest in other peoples’ languages, cultures and histories. Don’t hold your breath.
Will there be any change in the VAT if and when Britain exits?
Entirely a matter for the UK parliament. Amazing really.
As UK VAT is – obviously – not levied on exports, the answer to that would appear to depend on the state of govt finances,
It is clear, of course, that EU rules on VAT such as the “fourchette” for the standard rate of VAT and the difficulty of creating further categories of goods and services with special reduced rates or of zero rating them would no longer apply.
Hope that helps with what was a very good question.
Hat tip to Bill Mitchell-Economist for the following;
The Brexit result restores the potential of the people to resist the corporate elites and their servants in Brussels who have imposed the most brutal neo-liberal austerity – the most horrific treatment of European people for decades.
The people have rejected the corporate elites who have wined, dined and corrupted the political elites of Europe to ensure the distribution of income is pushed further to the 1%.
The EU have destroyed a nation (Greece) and left it as a beggar State in the EU..
All the talk in the late 1940s about creating political structures to ensure Germany never went to war again are now irrelevant. NATO has contributed to the dangers of a WW111, by the provocation of Military execises with 30k troops on the Russian border in the Baltics and the recent positioning of Nuclear weapons in Romania and soon Poland.
The European Union – the ‘European Project’ – is a decaying, necrotic, schlerotic, bureaucraticarrangement that is incapable of dealing with the challenges of the present, much less the future. Should Scotland opt for the EU ,it is condemning its citizens to a future of poverty and control from Brussels
The EU economic design has failed. It is incapable of dealing with the migration issue. It has long gone past its use by date.
Yes, it does; it restores the potential. We may not realise that potential, but at least it is now ours to mess up. Until today we just had to accept what we were given.
Actually today Britain struck a blow for freedom, not just for ourselves, but for all the nations of Europe, should they care to avail themselves of the opportunity presented. Sadly, Scotland, which has made such a massively disproportionate contribution to our nation’s story voted themselves out of this day of glory. They seem to have fallen big-time for the divide-and-rule policy of the S.N.P.
Never mind, worse things happen at sea.
Very glad to see some ‘common sense’ around this rather confused wildeness.
Craig, some months ago, with great aplomb, you announced that you were going to reveal your future career plans. Have you decided yet? Btw, as bright as you are, what was your subject at Uni? Oh yes, I checked over at Wiki: unsurprisingly, History. Consider an adult education course in Economics before you mislead less privileged Scots.
Of course, Scotland could consider an ever closer union with Saudi Arabia, one of the largest consumers of Scotch Whisky. (No offence meant to the Scots.)
You gotta hand it to Jesus (Corbyn). Done just enough to make Cameron lose and send him packing and enough to assuage the Blairite remain-ders whilst campaigning. Did he pull it off or is Gods Hand on his hand, like a Putin ?!!!!!
How the devils would love to take control of labour again, we even had a timely milliband appear out of the woodwork at the Beeb, followed by mandevilson. and their ibo pet chukka umunna. Surely its time to start deselecting the Blairite MI5 don recruited Oxbridge labour cnuts, just like Miranda was all those years ago.
Tariq Ali said on Democracy Now! last year that the Brexit referendum could be the means by which Corbyn would become prime minister much sooner than people expected.
That has already been said on here – by yourself yesterday, I believe.
I suspect that Tariq’s musings on that question are as nugatory as most of his other musings……
+1 Wee