Opposing Populist Chauvinism is not Elitism 384


History demonstrates the evils that arise from whipping up popular xenophobic nationalism. After the Tories trumpeted that companies will have to declare how many foreigners they employ, that foreign doctors will be phased out of the NHS, that taxi drivers will have to prove their immigration status, that fewer foreigners will be allowed to study at British universities and that landlords will have to check the papers of their foreign tenants, we will now be told by Theresa May that to oppose this surge of fascism is elitism. I call it fascist after careful consideration; I don’t know what else to call it. Immigrants to Britain are going to be hauled up to produce documents at numerous moments of daily life to prove their right to be here. They will not yet need to be identified by yellow stars, but anybody who does not see the direction of travel is a fool.

The ability of politicians and media to whip up popular racism is well demonstrated historical fact. I am simply appalled by the catalogue I have outlined above. It is astonishing to me that popular opinion, particularly in England, has been conditioned to the point where outright racism has become the accepted everyday level of political discourse. And it is not just the Tories. Blairites are using populist anti-immigrant rhetoric as their most potent attack on Corbyn. Rachel Reeves made a speech last week that channelled Enoch Powell in predicting violent reaction to immigrants, and in some ways was worse than Powell’s classical allusion. But while Powell’s anti-immigrant rant ended his chances of becoming Prime Minister in a more decent age, Reeves is firmly in today’s UK establishment mainstream.

The argument that immigration is impacting the living standards of ordinary working people is a demonstrable falsehood. If mass immigration made a country’s people poorer, then Germany and the USA would have the lowest living standards for ordinary citizens in the world. An economy is not a thing of fixed size with a set number of jobs. If it were not for immigration, there would have been no economic growth in the UK at all since the millennium.

The march of Tory militarism continues apace. Today we will have a further glorying in the creation of weapons of mass destruction, while yesterday scarcely a hair was turned at the announcement of the reintroduction of military cadet forces in our state schools, to instil militarism and xenophobic patriotism into children. The attempt to elide patriotism, militarism, monarchism and the interests of the corporate elite would be laughable were it not successful.

There is no doubt that the racist mood in England is real, and there is no doubt that it is racist. I have never accepted the argument that to oppose immigration is not racist, and consider myself entirely vindicated by current events. The argument that to oppose immigration is not racist is precisely the same as the argument that holocaust denial is not anti-semitic – you can make out a theoretical case that it isn’t, but in practice it works as an extremely good indicator.

It is ironic that May accuses the opponents of popular chauvinism as elitist. The Tory Conference has had two key themes – one is xenophobic nationalism, and the other is educational elitism. The grammar school policy is being driven through, along with the school military cadets – what kind of crazed government is this? But the significance on the attack on the university sector should not be missed. Overseas students are a vital source of revenue and all are already seeing a drop in interest as nobody wants to live in a country where they will be the subject of patent racist hostility, while EU students cannot know where they will stand on fee structures by the end of their course. However the announcement that “new” universities will be treated differently in terms of numbers of overseas students allowed is a major departure that will inevitably spread into other areas; a de facto return to polytechnic status is in the offing.

The new Tory self-confidence was evidenced also in attitudes to Scotland. Theresa May could not have been more explicit that Scotland is but a part of the UK, that the UK voted for Brexit, that Westminster will handle Brexit negotiations and she really does not care what the Scots think. There very plainly is no process, or any intention of any process, that could result in Scotland maintaining a more integrated relationship with the EU while within the United Kingdom. That idea was always fantastical anyway, as it would be an impossibility to accommodate such an arrangement within EU treaties, as I have previously explained. But the gradualists in the SNP have sought to pretend that such a process is happening of which we need to see the outcome before an Independence referendum.

What Theresa May has done this week is publically to rend Nicola Sturgeon’s tabard, and make absolutely plain that Brexit will be organised, negotiated and decided by the UK government and parliament alone. The Scottish parliament will have associated legislative changes, even on devolved matters, imposed on it from above. Scotland’s response to this has so far been alarmingly supine.

I support Scottish Independence passionately because I have an urgent desire to get away from the control of these appalling Tories. I want to live in a society where I can dissent from populist racism without being condemned by the government as a liberal elitist. I also firmly believe that the shock of the break up of the UK is the dislocation required to break the grip of the Tories and UKIP on the psyche of so much of the public in England. It can provide the revolutionary moment for change that Corbyn and those like him can exploit. Scottish independence is the best hope for the rest of the UK too.


384 thoughts on “Opposing Populist Chauvinism is not Elitism

1 2 3 4
  • Sharp Ears

    ‘The march of Tory militarism continues apace. Today we will have a further glorying in the creation of weapons of mass destruction, while yesterday scarcely a hair was turned at the announcement of the reintroduction of military cadet forces in our state schools, to instil militarism and xenophobic patriotism into children. The attempt to elide patriotism, militarism, monarchism and the interests of the corporate elite would be laughable were it not successful’.

    Did you see Fallon, almost orgasmic, as Teresa whipped up the assembled company into cheering ‘our armed forces’?

    ‘And always committed to a strong national defence and supporting the finest Armed Forces known to man.

    And this week, our excellent Defence Secretary, Michael Fallon, proved not only that we will support them with our hearts and souls. Not only will we remain committed to spending two per cent of our national income on defence.

    But we will never again – in any future conflict – let those activist, left-wing human rights lawyers harangue and harass the bravest of the brave – the men and women of Britain’s Armed Forces.’

    http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/theresa-may-speech-tory-conference-2016-in-full-transcript-a7346171.html

    Worthy of Adolf at the Nuremberg rallies 1933-38.

    • bevin

      What makes this replay of Tory Militarism really farcical is that the forces involved are merely cheap mercenaries rented out to The Pentagon. The cost is uncertain but very low: in Iraq, for example, the only obvious reward for the appalling costs Britain incurred has been to supplement Tony Blair’s pension, through the rewards he received from philanthropists, governments and banks which poured money into his pockets.
      No doubt many others benefited in like manner, though to a lesser extent.

  • Tony_0pmoc

    There would be nothing wrong inherently with the “reintroduction of military cadet forces in our state schools” if our Ministry of Defence exhibited similar levels of integrity as it did in the post World War II era. Many on here including myself and my brothers who joined the Territorial Army had very high levels of respect for our armed forces – even though some of us wondered what exactly they were doing in places like Aden.

    However, for all intents and purposes, at least since the coup in the USA in 2001, our Ministry of Defence, should have been renamed the Ministry of Attack – under almost complete control of American psychopaths and those corrupted by them.

    Our current position in Syria is completely shameful. Our real largely hidden history since Blair is appalling. Read “Web of Deceit – Britain’s Real Role in the World” by Mark Curtis to see our descent into military depravity.

    However, we and the rest of Europe still have a chance to prevent a World War III -which will probably be nuclear and terminal, if we have the courage to stand up to The Americans and say No – a bit like Harold Wilson did in 1965 – otherwise my brothers would almost certainly have ended up fighting a totally abhorrent useless war, that served no purpose in Vietnam.

    Tony

    • Salford Lad

      The coup in the United States occurred on 23rd November 1963 with the assassination John F. Kennedy by a cabal led by the Dulles Bros. FBI, Pentagon and Lyndon B.Johnson.

      • Babushka

        Totally agree with you Salford Lad

        I was a 15 year girl living in the Australian bush when I heard the news of this atrocity.
        I vicariously lived the Camelot of this family, and in short, had my mind brainwashed by the propaganda of the MS press during my formative years. I was preparing to be a ‘bride’ when I heard the news of RFK’s assassination. Only months before, our Prime Minister Holt (all the way with LBJ) had been mysteriously disappeared, and somehow, I was never convinced that he drowned in his own Paradise as claimed by the MSN.
        These past few days I have been listening to the audiotaped version of the book by James W Douglass on the death of JFK and why it matters. It is an exhaustively researched account of the many strands that led to the removal of this man who wanted peace for all nations.
        With a better understanding of the ‘Unspeakable”, I do see Craig to be very vulnerable to the same old forces, and therefore, very courageous.

  • Geoffrey

    I can not see why opposing immigration is “Racist”. When I lived in Portugal we thought of the colonisation of certain parts of the Algarve by Northern Europeans as like a spreading disease. We put up with it because of the financial benefits it was supposed to bring.
    There are no” benefits ” for foreigners living in Portugal,from the perspective of a Northern European. Schools are not good,nor the health system,whenever Brits get seriously ill they go back to the NHS.
    Growth in the UK has not been because of cheap foreign labour it is a debt fuelled binge. The National Debt has trebled since 2007 from £5000bn to £1.5tn. I dont know what the figure was in 2000 off the top of my head.
    Why do we have to want every other tree to be cut down and roads and houses built everywhere,factories producing things with subsidised labour whiich only survive because of tax credits,housing benefit,free education and health.

    • Old Mark

      There are no” benefits ” for foreigners living in Portugal,from the perspective of a Northern European. Schools are not good,nor the health system,whenever Brits get seriously ill they go back to the NHS.

      Spot on Geoffrey- as that Blairite multi millionaire writer of escapist tosh, JK Rowling, found to her discomfort in the 90s when she found herself up the duff out in Portugal- and then returned pronto to ‘mean spirited, Tory Britain’ (Major was then PM) to collect the income support to which (with presumably a few ‘white lies’ about her ‘habitual resdidence’ in the UK in the preceding period) she was entitled.

  • glenn

    I wonder if anyone will take a stab at providing a figure for the upper level of population that would be right for this country.

    Since several billion people would be considerably better off here than where they are at the moment, there will be no shortage of applicants. Should they all be allowed in? Is there some level at which one becomes a “racist” if – for example – it were proposed that 100, 200 or even 500 million was too many?

    Perhaps there is no upper limit, in order not to be racist? Maybe after half a billion migrants had arrived then this country would not be very attractive any longer, so it it’s a self-correcting problem.

    I have asked this on several occasions before, but never had a serious answer.

    • Habbabkuk

      Glenn

      re your second para: Enoch Powell was once asked the same question in respect of immigration from the non-white Commonwealth and his reply – if memory serves – was very much along the lines pf the second sentence in your second para. It went something like this (I cannot lay my hands on the source at the moment, so the figures are mine, but you’ll understand the drift) : ten thousand – absolutely no problem; one hundred thousand – unlikely to be a problem; five hundred thousand – perhaps a problem; two million – certainly a problem.

      By “problem” he was referring mainly to social assimilation and in particular the degree of acceptance on the part of the indigenous population.

      • glenn

        These days, we’re not even talking about the high end of what Powell was talking about as our low end of immigration over a decade. And people are being called racist now for even thinking it’s a subject up for discussion.

        The “problem” of integration aside, what about infrastructure? Our roads, schools and hospitals are not up to the job. Not only are they disgracefully underfunded, they were designed to serve a much smaller population. Our welfare system would also appear to be inadequate. We have under-employed and unemployed, accepting millions more on board will surely not be particularly welcome to them – shutting them up by calling them racists is a ludicrous answer to the inevitable reaction.

        There is also the environmental cost, if anyone is interested in that anymore. British people tend to have fewer children than our potential incoming population. Is nobody concerned that an explosion of large families will put an ever greater strain on infrastructure, and press harder still on the environment? We should be working to reduce the global population, not encouraging its growth.

    • Tony_0pmoc

      glenn, It depends on how much they want to move, and what they want in terms of quality of life. The technology is available to feed vastly more people than who currently live in the UK – if they are housed in massive tower blocks – like battery chickens and they don’t want to travel.

      Tony

      • glenn

        Tony: I don’t think being housed like battery chickens is quite what migrants have in mind. An awful lot of the Jungle population are young men with the idea of getting here illegally, then working illegally for as long as they can get away with it, and making a stack of money in the process.

        • Tony_0pmoc

          glenn,

          Yes, I understand that – but your sentence is a bit profound potentially even considered racist (by some)…

          ” An awful lot of the Jungle population…..”

          Now think about what you wrote re what people might think by the word Jungle and I won’t mention my friend – and I won’t even show you a photo of him.

          Incidentally, I don’t care in the slightest if immigrants coming to this country make a stack of money. I just want to be able to continue to travel as quickly and cheaply and as far as I have travelled each year for the last 60 odd years..

          To be honest, before they built the M1 and the M6 – it took even longer to get from Oldham to London on the back of a moped than it does now in one of my Classic British cars.

          The Flying Scotsman was the most fun….and its still going…

          https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d9nsGtev_AU

          Tony

          • glenn

            Tony: I was referring to “The Jungle” as it’s called in Calais, not anything remotely as racist as you might have thought – grief, it took a few moments to realise what you’d misconstrued there.

            Bear in mind that every enterprising young fellow that makes it to the UK, just like the NHS workers, is a loss of that skill and drive in their homes country. Generally speaking, we see what their home country can least afford to lose.

    • Loony

      The population of the UK is already above long term carrying capacity. For example the UK is unable to feed itself and needs to import over over half of its food.

      Calling people racist or any other derogatory “ist” is simple cover for profound ignorance, in particular ignorance of the exponential function. Here is a Professor Bartlett trying to make people understand

      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u5iFESMAU58

      • Habbabkuk

        “For example the UK is unable to feed itself and needs to import over over half of its food.”
        ___________________

        Read your history, you clown – the UK has been a heavy net importer of foodstuffs for over 150 years.

        • Chris Rogers

          Perhaps you should read your books, I suppose you could have mentioned the Corn Laws or split in the Tory Party because of said Corn Laws in 1846 – however, what Habbs fails to tell is this, essentially global catastrophes have had a major impact on European politics, economics and population’s – for instance unrest in France prior to its Revolution was spurned on by climate change caused by a volcanic eruption, the same applies to the events that led to the great 1848 uprisings – so Loony’s point is valid, namely any interruption, and we are talking a serious one, be it manmade or natural, would result in 90% of our species dying from hunger. And, its estimated that the UK, if it had a 100% sustainable economy, could only manage to feed some 20 million from its own land and sea resources, and yet our population is heading towards 70 million – but, if we question this from an ecological perspective, we are eco-fascists or fascist, rather than being the realists many of us actually are.

  • Habbabkuk

    Noone who has been to the Calais “jungle” can possibly doubt that that the majority (I do not say the overwhelming majority) of the unfortunate people there are economic migrants and not asylum seekers.

    If personal observation is not enough, the question must be asked : why do those claiming political refugee status prefer to remain in the “jungle” rather than claiming that status in France and taking up the offer of the French authorities to receive the appropriate documentation and transfer to more salubrious acommodation?

    As far as the economic migrants are concerned, an argument often heard is that they should be allowed entry to the UK in order to be able to join family and friends already in the UK. But less often heard, in that connection, is the question : are those family and friends in the UK themselves economic migrants who have entered the UK illegally?

    • Republicofscotland

      “why do those claiming political refugee status prefer to remain in the “jungle” rather than claiming that status in France and taking up the offer of the French authorities to receive the appropriate documentation and transfer to more salubrious acommodation?”

      ______________

      Habb.

      A part answer to that poser, could lie in that many parentless children end up in the UK, but are the denied residency after a certain age. It could be that those people now young adults, feel that the French way of life is a foreign culture to them, after spending part of their childhood in the UK.

      The Immigration minister Robert Goodwill (a misnomer) is anything but good willed. His department, (which must be devolved but isn’t ) is in the process of deporting people who’ve lived, worked and had families now with grown up children, from Scotland.

      Another good reason for Scottish independence.

      • Habbabkuk

        RoS

        Surely you are not saying that a goodly proportion of the economic migrants on the jungle are people who 1) grew up in the UK, 2) were then, at a certain age denied residency and expelled and then 3) are camping in Calais in an attempt to get back into the UK?

        I hope I’ve misread you because if you are claiming that then you are simply wrong.

        Virtually all of the economic migrants clustered at Calais are first-timers.

        ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

        BTW, would you care to comment on my second “poser”?

        • Republicofscotland

          “Virtually all of the economic migrants clustered at Calais are first-timers.”

          ___________

          Habb.

          Can you provide (credible) evidence to back that claim?

          I obtained my evidence from the BBC’s World Service today, I was rather surprised that the international propaganda machine reported that.

          ////////////////

          “As far as the economic migrants are concerned, an argument often heard is that they should be allowed entry to the UK in order to be able to join family and friends already in the UK. But less often heard, in that connection, is the question : are those family and friends in the UK themselves economic migrants who have entered the UK illegally?”

          ___________

          Habb.

          I agree with your above paragraph, however I still believe that immigration (not unchecked of course) is a good thing. Jobs that those in the UK, do not want to do, ahd those jobs that require highly skilled personnel, that the UK may not have enough of, will always need filling.

          However away from the Calais camp, the Brexit vote has left immigrants who live and work in the UK, feeling uncertain and afraid, as well as unsure of their status, in British society. The Tories, and their lack of clarity, except to compound the situation with, clarion calls, at their conference to crackdown on foreigners in the UK, has only added to the casual xenophobic attitudes, brewing all over the land.

      • Alan

        “A part answer to that poser, could lie in that many parentless children end up in the UK, but are the denied residency after a certain age. It could be that those people now young adults, feel that the French way of life is a foreign culture to them, after spending part of their childhood in the UK.”

        No listen, there are a couple of British posters to this blog, who live in France and are constantly telling us how wonderful it is living there, so how can you make that argument?

        What I also find a bit rich is somebody who left the Kent Coast, with its relatively high immigrant population, to go live in Scotland, with its relatively low immigrant population to have any claim to the moral high ground. I mean to say, actions do speak much louder than words, do they not?

        • Republicofscotland

          “What I also find a bit rich is somebody who left the Kent Coast, with its relatively high immigrant population, to go live in Scotland, with its relatively low immigrant population to have any claim to the moral high ground. I mean to say, actions do speak much louder than words, do they not?”

          _________

          Alan of whom, are you referring to?

          • Alan

            Well I ended up living in Kent because of my first wife. Kent the “Invicta” county, ruled by the Duke of Kent (and you had better believe it) I doubt there is a more right wing country in the whole of the UK, yet somebody we all know actually chose to go live there, despite his proclaimed left wing beliefs.

            Hey, I got on a train and got out and no way would I ever choose to live there 🙂

    • Tony_0pmoc

      Habbabkuk,

      If you went there about a year ago, and found one of the main English volunteers trying to help (he was there for over 6 months) – well the French caused him and are still causing him a hell of a lot of grief. I do not approve of the French jailing my English friend – simply for trying to help in the most appalling of circumstances. (4 taps for several thousand people).

      Tony

      • Habbabkuk

        Opmoc

        I have been there a couple of times – the dates are irrelevant.

        As to your friend: the French authorities in situ are in a difficult position ,caught between pressures of various kinds. I can well understand that they do not take kindly to the presence of sundry activists from the country to which the jungle people are so determined to get – perhaps they see them as trouble-stirrers of the Occupy kind rather than noble humanitarians. A point of view with which I have considerable sympathy.

      • Habbabkuk

        Opmoc

        I forgot to ask this.

        Four taps for several thousand people : why then, in your opinion, have so few of the jungle people taken up the offer made by the French authorities to provide them with better acommodation elsewhere?

    • RobG

      American-led wars in the Middle East and North Africa have caused the biggest refugee crisis in Europe since WW2. This refugee crisis is going to fundamentally change the European continent (for the worse, which seems to be the plan). Not one European leader has got the balls to stand up to the Americans.

      Of the millions who have fled American-made hellholes like Libya and Syria, just a few thousand end-up in Calais, trying to get across to the UK., yet we’re told that “they all want to come here”. This is so laughable that I won’t even comment on it.

      I’ll just state the obvious: Britain has always had control of its borders. The reason that Britain has been flooded with immigrants in recent decades is because the Establishment want cheap labour.

    • Old Mark

      Habba- on page 1 of the comments thread I addressed that point- see the ‘Example 1’ I offered as proof of Craig’s shallow and knee jerk thinking around the immigration issue in this post.

  • Republicofscotland

    Excellent post Craig, I couldn’t have summed it up better myself.

    One has to wonder just how far to the right England will lurch? Looking at the state of the union, one hundred days plus after the Brexit vote, one would think, after taking in the Tory conference, that, xenophobia, will become common place, even accepted.

    Now show me your papers….SCHNELL!!!!!!!!!!!

  • BSA

    Scottish independence will further entrench the racists in England and produce a populist backlash against Scotland. Abuse of Scotland, verging on racism, by established media and politicians has been normalised over the last few years and it will take little to crank that up into something even uglier. It will take a fair bit more than Scottish independence to save England from itself.

  • Geoffrey

    Anyone should be able to come to live in this country that can do so without recourse to the state. Why should Brits pay for people to come and live in the UK in the form of providing free education,health etc.?
    If we wish to give money to foreigners we could make huge donations to Portugal,Spain,Somalia or wherever.

    • Habbabkuk

      Geoffrey

      I don’t think it’s a question of having recourse to the state or not.

      One is inclined to point out that virtually all British people have recourse to the state in one way or another (usually in many ways) and that such recourse should be available to everyone in the Kingdom on the same basis and irrespective of nationality.

      The problem is rather that the majority of British born people (NB – that includes British people of foreign parentage) simply do not want, for a variety of reasons, some of which may be well-founded and others not, too many foreigners (from wherever) coming to settle the country. Now you may deplore that but it is a fact and if you believe that majority opinion should count for something then the public authorities have to take account of it.

      • Geoffrey

        Habb. I agree that that virtually all Brits receive from the state, but surely that is because the Brits decided to have a state NHS and education housing benefit etc, but I don’t think it was intended that it was meant to be an incentive for foreigners to come to the UK.
        If less foreigners were coaxed over here by freebies,Brits would have to do the jobs that foreigners do now and regardless of what Craig and others say that would mean that they would have to be paid more….. and yes I know what that may means,it may means, a lower standard of living in the short term.
        Mr Bond Market has allowed us temporarily to bring in a lot of cheap labour to do our dirty work,but he is going to want repaying sometime.

      • Ba'al Zevul

        I think that’s very fair comment. You’re making sense on this one. I wish I could remember who – might have been Thatcher, in fact – sometime in the eighties, made a clear policy distinction between admitting economic migrants and sheltering refugees from disasters and wars. The latter – fine (and repatriate them as and when conditions improve at home). The former, never.

        But I’ll just annoy you with the reminder that global financiers and resource-strippers are the principal beneficiaries of the free movement of labour and capital across national borders: Craig’s position is essentially a false one, even if we disregard the wave of nationalism, some of it extremely McJingoistic, which made the Scottish independence referendum such a close-run thing, wiped out the globalist parties, and which Craig has shown little sign of disparaging per se. Quite the reverse, in fact. Apparently – though I do see his point here – Sturgeon is no longer nationalist enough….

      • Old Mark

        One is inclined to point out that virtually all British people have recourse to the state in one way or another (usually in many ways) and that such recourse should be available to everyone in the Kingdom on the same basis and irrespective of nationality

        Habba- do your friends the Israelis apply this principle, and grant benefits to non citizens on the same basis as they do Israelis ? Do you think they are justified in drawing such a distinction between citizens and non citizens ? If you think they are so justified, why is applying the same criteria in the Uk ‘unjustified’ ?

      • Loony

        No we hate Greeks – they need to be taught a lesson for having told lies and living profligately. Any money we print out of thin air must be given to genuine refugees – not to Greeks. That way we can all relax in the nirvana of our own moral purity.

      • Geoffrey

        Yes,why not ? It would be like saying we know things are tough there in Greece but we don’t want a large influx of your people because we are a bit full here and don’t want to chop all our trees down to build new houses for you, so here take this money- it is the money we would have given you in housing benefits health and education etc if you had come to the UK.

  • Republicofscotland

    “Blairites are using populist anti-immigrant rhetoric as their most potent attack on Corbyn.”

    _______

    I like to think, that if Corbyn can hold the Labour party together, then I see no reason why he couldn’t become PM, and impliment policies, that would benefit the masses as well as the capitalists, for one relies on the other, and vice versa, does it not?

    I read somewhere today, I can’t quite recall where, that countries with trade unions who have a high membeship, and where the trade unions are strong, see workers, obtain a fairer share of the benefits of economic growth.

    Finland, Sweden and Denmark, have a high percentage of workers who are affiliated to trade unions.

    The Tories and their 40% rule hope to further weaken the trade union movement. Corbyn as PM could readdress the balance, if he can unite the party, or if need be, purge those who stand in the way of progress.

    Hooefully by then, Scotland will have voted yes to independence.

  • Roderick Russell

    It does seem to me that there is an optimum level of population for each society depending on the state of its infrastructure and institutions, whether it has jobs for prospective immigrants or not, its unexploited land, resources etc.

    Nineteenth century USA had all of these – space, jobs, resources, land, etc. – in abundance, and it certainly benefited greatly from the mass immigration that helped exploit this bonanza for both its new immigrants and pre-existing work force.

    However this unrestricted immigration to 19th century USA was only possible because of the unique conditions that existed there – and that certainly don’t apply here in the UK today. Indeed to me the UK in the twenty first century already seems to be overcrowded, particularly in the South.

    If we didn’t have any controls on immigration, then masses of people would try to come since there are over a billion hungry in the world – and who could blame them? So we have to have some form of immigration controls. I don’t think that reasonable controls on immigration are the slightest bit racist unless one does them on a racist basis. As for power-elites: of course many would like unfettered immigration since the increased population that would result from unfettered immigration would drive down wages and drive up property prices to their great advantage.

    • Andy

      If we didn’t have any controls on immigration, then masses of people would try to come since there are over a billion hungry in the world – and who could blame them?

      The UK does have controls. EU citizens of course are free to work across EU member states. not people from outside the EU.

      If Eastern European countries weren’t so poor most eastern Europeans wouldn’t come to the UK to work. Neo-liberal capitalism has created created wealth inequality.

      If you knew London in the 90s every building site had workers from Eastern Europe, restaurants, coffee shops, you name it, they worked illegally. Putting up an imaginary wall won’t stop desperate people coming to the UK to work.

      • Old Mark

        If Eastern European countries weren’t so poor most eastern Europeans wouldn’t come to the UK to work. Neo-liberal capitalism has created created wealth inequality

        Andy- that may be true, but the way you’ve phrased that sentance makes it sound as if the economic woes of Eastern Europe are entirely caused by neo-Liberal capitalism.

        NoeLiberalism undoubtedly is partly to blame, but the stifling command economies that were imposed on these countries until around 1990 also contributed and, in the case of Poland, the literal looting of their coal reserves by Stalin in the immediate post war period wasn’t exactly helpful to that county’s economic development.

    • fred

      If the right are the democratic majority then the country has no choice than to move to the right.

      I’ve said already I voted against this in the referendum. I don’t remember you saying how you voted but I do remember Nationalists saying how good the result was because it would lead to Scottish independence so I assume it was the result they wanted.

      • Republicofscotland

        ” I do remember Nationalists saying how good the result was because it would lead to Scottish independence so I assume it was the result they wanted.”

        ______________

        Yes Brexit does increase the likelihood of a victory for the Scottish independence movement.

        But who could have forseen, your precious union move in the direction of fascism, it must stick in your throat Fred, knowing it’s not the SNP that are blood and soil nationalists, (they never were) but the British government, who are fast moving in that direction.

        • fred

          I have always argued against Nationalism in all it’s forms.

          You seem to pick and choose before the referendum you were saying you thought independence from Europe was the best way forward.

          When Craig said: “The argument that to oppose immigration is not racist is precisely the same as the argument that holocaust denial is not anti-semitic – you can make out a theoretical case that it isn’t, but in practice it works as an extremely good indicator.” it wasn’t me he was talking about because I haven’t done either. Can you say the same?

          • Republicofscotland

            “I have always argued against Nationalism in all it’s forms.”

            _______

            A strange comment, as I only recall you attacking the SNP, calling them Nazi’s and blood and soil nationalists. Along with calling those who support Scottish independence, Nazi’s as well.

            If you are so opposed to nationalism, as you claim, why haven’t you berated or denouced the 200 or so countries who’ve obtained independence through nationalism, since WWII?

            Why is it just the SNP, and Scottish independence supporters that are Nazi’s, and blood and soil nationalists?

            Catalonia has threatened independence from Spain, over the same period as Scotland has, through the SNP. Not once have I read any comment from you denouncing the Catalonian people, as Nazi’s or blood and soil nationalists, why not?

          • fred

            I said you argued for Brexit and I can prove that, I could post the link now.

            You say I haven’t denounced the Catelonian people so it’s down to you to prove it.

        • michael norton

          The SNP have already passed their high water point,
          they have lost in Govanhill their own S.M.P. who ran away from Scottish rats and immigrants.
          It is down hill from now.

  • fwl

    Popular chauvinism – I thought you might be musing about Pres Dutarte of the Philippines.

    Is it fashionable to be extremely outspoken these days?

  • michael norton

    Brussels police stabbed in TERROR ATTACK
    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-37563836

    One officer was stabbed in the neck and another in the stomach, while a third officer who arrived at the scene in Schaerbeek district suffered a broken nose, Belgian broadcaster VRT reports.

    The attacker was shot in the leg and taken away by ambulance.

  • michael norton

    Our government/s are increasing retirement age because we have been told state pensions are not affordable.
    People are supposed to be able to look after themselves.
    If every year we allow 1/2 million poorer people to flood the United Kingdom, when these people get old,
    who the fuck will pay their pensions?

  • RobG

    It’s easy to manipulate people into hating other people (it’s what the trolls are paid for), and as long as that remains the fact there is no hope for the human race.

    As things are, within 50 years, tops, this beautiful little planet of ours will be a smoking, radioactive husk, with only the likes of bacteria able to survive.

    Within 100 years most of the remnants of ‘human civilisation’ will be completely overgrown by vegetation.

    Within 500 years you’ll barely know that Homo sapiens existed, except for the very high levels of unnatural radiation.

    Carry-On Hating, folks.

    • michael norton

      We must stop immigration now unless we want a country like Syria, reduced to hatred and poverty and rubble.

      • Republicofscotland

        Michael.

        The Express has finally melted away, what little Grey Matter, you had left, with that comment. ?

    • RobG

      Michael, you do realise who’s bombing the feck out of places like Syria?

      You do realise that we get millions of ‘immigrants’/refugees flooding Europe precisely because of our own actions?

      • glenn

        An awful lot of them are also coming from places like Pakistan and Egypt – we’re still not bombing there, not the last time I checked anyway.

      • Sharp Ears

        I am with you RobG and with your two previous comments.

        I am amazed that there are so many on this site so full of hatred for those less fortunate than themselves .

        • Habbabkuk

          You’re doing a Craig here, Sharp Ears – for most people, hatred doesn’t come into it. To say it does is as silly as saying that immigration control is racist.

      • Kempe

        ” Michael, you do realise who’s bombing the feck out of places like Syria? ”

        Mainly the Russians and their own governments.

        • bevin

          A thoroughly dishonest contribution. Obviously you are an enthusiastic supporter of the foreign backed mercenary militias who are, at the behest of NATO and the Gulf tyrants, launching terrorist offensives to subvert the Syrian government.
          The truth is that people such as yourself are much more responsible for the carnage in Syria today than either the ba’ath government or its allies. No British government would dare to be openly supporting al qaeda if it could not rely on electors such as yourself to apologise for the terrorists.

  • bevin

    Most immigrants are trying to move to the UK because their countries been devastated by imperialism. In many cases this is so obvious that even Tories cannot ignore the fact that when ‘we’ bomb. Somalia, Libya, Iraq, Afghanistan, Syria, Yemen and sundry other places we start population movements which end up either with refugees moving here directly or displacing populations which, in turn move here.
    Does anyone doubt that this is so?
    As to ‘economic migrants’ they too tend to originate where economic collapse has made it impossible to earn a living in their own countries. This can take many forms: in Poland and the Baltic states it took the form of shock therapy-introduced by the west- designed to force emigration. In some states, Estonia is one, a significant proportion of the work force lives abroad. Ireland and Greece are other sources of migrants, driven from their homes by EU/IMF/neo-liberalism.
    Then there are countries, such as Ethiopia, in which masses of peasants have been driven from their subsistence holdings because rich foreigners, clients of local tyrants, have assembled enormous estates to be farmed after the Monsanto/GMO plantation method.
    The net result is that there are hundreds of millions of people made homeless by the imperial system looking for refuge. They are all economic migrants. And they are all political refugees.
    It is not a coincidence that a part of this tide of unwanted humanity makes itself available for powers recruiting mercenary militias and ends up seeking entry to the fleshpots, armed and mob handed.
    It is all part of the reality of modern imperialism, dealing with it begins by understanding what it is.
    And that it is not just a local and temporary problem that either neighbourly kindness or racist ruthlessness can address.
    Kindness to Syrian refugees, for example, begins with not bombing their homes. Hard nosed ruthlessness begins by taking on, not the most vulnerable people in the world, the desperate refugees but the ruling classes which put greed and the lust for power before any decent feelings.

    • Habbabkuk

      Bevs

      ” Ireland and Greece are other sources of migrants, driven from their homes by EU/IMF/neo-liberalism.”

      ___________________________

      You should really do some research and thinking for yourself rather than just copying out tired old clichés from whichever literature you subscribe to. In fact, your entire post is a farago of misunderstanding and misinformation.

      Ireland, Greece (and Italy, Poland and others for that matter) were countries of large-scale emigration long before the EU and the IMF were ever dreamt of.

      • bevin

        “Ireland, Greece (and Italy, Poland and others for that matter) were countries of large-scale emigration long before the EU and the IMF were ever dreamt of.”
        So what? Logic really isn’t your strong suit is it?
        The recent waves of emigration from Ireland and from Greece have particular causes: in Greece the IMF/ECB assault on living standards, pensions and jobs. In Ireland similar actions prompted by the Irish government’s having agreed to deflationary measures.
        To tell us that Ireland has long been a source of emigrants and that Poland too and Greece have also launched many refugees into the world tells us nothing that everyone didn’t know. The point is why in recent years there have been waves of emigration.
        I suggest a perfectly reasonable answer and you-unless you are suggesting some sort of biological ‘wanderlust’ in the genes of these peoples- have nothing to contribute apart from the inevitable, tedious and unfounded smears “tired old cliches from whichever literature…”etc ad nauseam.
        You contribute nothing to these discussions but the malice of a sour old maid and occasional essays into sub Wodehousian argot.
        Just to change the subject, momentarily: are you acquainted with the expression ‘piss off’?

        • Habbabkuk

          Bevs

          “To tell us that Ireland has long been a source of emigrants and that Poland too and Greece have also launched many refugees into the world tells us nothing that everyone didn’t know. ”
          ______________________

          Correct, and the reason was the (historical) poverty of those countries – nothing to do with a genetic wanderlust.

          It is you, however, who is claiming that such a historic emigration pattern us all the fault of the EU, IMF, ECB etc – organisations and institutions which are relatively recent.
          ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

          “The point is why in recent years there have been waves of emigration.”
          ___________________

          You see – you’re now talking about recently. But even there, I’d suggest that the intensity of Greek Irish, etc emigration is as nothing compared to that of the period (say) 1880 – 1939.

          +++++++++++++++++++++++

          As I said, Bevs, for Heaven’s sake start doing some serious research and thinking rather than just parroting sub-Marxist claptrap. If you want people to take you seriously, that is.

    • Rhisiart Gwilym

      Always appreciate your well-informed, savvy good sense, Bevin. Thanks. Please keep it up. As you may know, I DR.DADE Hab’s input – Don’t Read. Don’t Answer, Don’t Engage – a practical way of by-passing and discounting what I’ve previously identified as probable troll-input, or even frank hasbarollocks. So I’ll leave it to your informed good sense to repulse his/her/their stuff – if you can be bothered to engage with it…

      • Habbabkuk

        Yes, I know – as I can see from the website you reserve most of your outpourings for, you’re not using to seeing your views challenged or seeing opposed views.

        I note that you find it necessary to tell us you won’t engage – I wonder why that should be so? After all, people – insofar as they’ve noticed your existence – can see that for themselves, surely?

        And now : fuck off back to your mates on The Lifeboat News 🙂

  • Trowbridge H. Ford

    Surely Theresa May is not happy with Antonio Guterres, the UN High Commissioner on Refuges, becoming the UN’s next Secretary General, but I am.

    Shows Putin in a most consiliatory mood.

    • Republicofscotland

      “Shows Putin in a most consiliatory mood.”

      __________

      Trowbridge.

      I doubt Putin would consol-a-tory, under any conditions. ?

        • Republicofscotland

          Trowbridge.

          Have you no sense of comedy, it was a joke, you know, consol-a-tory, as in comfort a tory..geez, I think you need to lighten up a wee bit.

          Take off the hat and the disguise, breathe in the air, and have a little fun. ?

        • Trowbridge H. Ford

          Too bad that third party presidential candidate Gary Johnson didn’t come up with Guterres’ name when asked by Chris Matthews for the name of a world leader he admired.

          Guterres could really have made a difference in Johnson’s campaign about stopping wars in general.

          Guterres is the best politician Portugal has produced since WWII.

          Even better than President Mario Soares who went along with the American plot to kill me in exchange for Portuguese workers who went to the States to work keeping the Social Security benefits when they went back home in retirement.

          • Loony

            Ah Gary Johnson the anti war libertarian candidate who when asked a question about the carnage in Aleppo replied “What is Aleppo?”

  • Paul Barbara

    Talking of Fascism,
    ‘Commemorate the battle of Cable Street’: Sunday 09 October 2016 at 12:00-18:00
    http://www.unitetheunion.org/campaigning/events/commemorate-the-battle-of-cable-street/

    Commemorate the 80th anniversary of the battle of Cable Street
    Altab Ali Park, Adler Street, London E1 (Tube, Aldgate East)

    And, back on the ranch, ’40 million Russians involved in annual 4-day defense drills’:
    https://www.rt.com/news/361553-russia-civil-defense-drill/

    Unlike Brits, who watch Eastenders, Britain’s Got Talent, Football, assorted soaps, ‘Quiz Shows’, read the MSM or watch the propaganda on the box, more or less unconcerned with what we and NATO and assorted henchmen are doing to Arab and North African peoples, and who well may wake to find one day to sirens going off everywhere, and no one knows where to run, the Russians have been readying themselves for war with the West, not because they want war, but because they know the West is highly likely to force it on them. Oh, the politicos and Banksters have their rat-holes, but don’t expect them to share them with us!
    And this won’t be the jingoistic cake-walk of bombing mud huts and almost undefended targets, that the RAF, army and navy have been facing of late, or like one of the computer ‘war games’ so beloved of modern kids.

    • Mick McNulty

      If the US elite run to the bunkers to start that war they think is winnable, I console myself with the thought that when the missiles stop flying then Russia, China and Iran will send over engineers to breach those tunnels. They have time to do it, several years if necessary, then they should divert rivers, lakes, reservoirs and even the odd sea into them. Drown them like the rats they are.

  • RobG

    More protests at the Conservative conference in Birmingham (a 2 minute clip)…

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JBCHXZJ0n3Q

    This is nothing like it was in Manchester last year, which saw some of the biggest demos in modern British history…

    http://www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk/news/greater-manchester-news/conservative-party-conference-dramatic-moment-10213947

    … none of which was reported by the MSM.

    Bring on the next general election, because these tory scum are going to get thrown out on their arse, despite what the presstitutes try to drum into you.

  • Sharp Ears

    This afternoon I said that the May speech and the reaction to it in the hall was worthy of Adolf at Nuremberg.

    I have just come across this.

    James O’Brien On Amber Rudd’s Foreign Worker’s Policy
    Discussing Home Secretary Amber Rudd’s push to make firms list foreign workers, James O’Brien’s startling point will stop you in your tracks – the eerie similarities between Amber Rudd’s plan to list foreign workers and a passage in Mein Kampf.

    5 October 2016
    http://www.lbc.co.uk/radio/presenters/james-obrien/james-amber-rudds-speech-echoes-mein-kampf/

  • giyane

    The post-Cameron Tories are still fighting off the loony right as if it exists outside their own imaginations.
    Is this the first sign of madness, or jinns, or a comedy act?

    We see Boris Johnson in boxer shorts shadow boxing an invisible enemy called Russia on prime TV.

    The Tories have suddenly discovered Scotland in Birmingham – it must be Scotland – a mythical land north of Watford where the dialect is incomprehensible a few seconds up the spout of HS2.

    Fart fart. All Non-elitists will be deleted. fart fart. Daleks will rule the world. Eliminate northern, eliminate northern.

    They’ve spent a whole week totally detached from reality, garbling soundbites to the BBC.

    • Alan

      As Craig continues his little tirade against England and his support for the EU, lets look at a few relevant facts.

      Czech prime minister Bohuslav Sobotka says: ‘To be honest, we don’t want a large Muslim population here.’ His Slovak counterpart, Robert Fico, is just as blunt: ‘Islam has no place in Slovakia.’

      In France, Nicolas Sarkozy calls Islamic dress ‘a provocation’, and promises laws against it. And, of course, a ban on the wearing of burkas on French beaches sparked huge rows over the summer.

      In Austria, the Far-Right candidate got half the vote at the last presidential election, which is now being re-run after irregularities in the poll. In France, Marine Le Pen’s Front National leads in some national polls. In Greece, an unashamedly neo-Nazi party came third at the last election.

      Nativist parties — that is, ones that argue for the rights of established inhabitants of a nation over immigrants — are polling solidly in Belgium, the Netherlands, Germany, Sweden and many post-Communist states.

  • fwl

    I don’t buy into this racist England but Scotland is tolerant concept. People, especially those on an island so small as this one are not so different to one another. What is it it to be Scottish, or Welsh or English or Irish or Manx. Most of it is an illusion essentially. With Wales there is our language and that is undoubtedly an amazing identifying feature of what it is to be Welsh, but it only takes us so far. We haven’t lost it and don’t intent to do so. I worry for the spirit of the language if the tedium of the Assembly starts to ponder over the deadly exercise of standardisation of language now that Welsh finds its way into the dead letter of the law i.e. will it cease to mutate slip slide and defy.

    Certain superficialities and perception of where interests lie may create and illusion. There is an undeniable interest in Scottish nationalists seeking to establish a perception of inclusivity and tolerance because they see their ally in the EU not in England. My neighbour’s neighbour’s is my ally. But pushing a message of inclusivity, multi-culturalism and tolerance, whilst highly commendable is not necessarily the same as really being those things. We only have to consider the extent to which those concepts have been (until very recently) a back beat of the Westminster’s message, but evidently the seeds of the flowers of Westminster are still blowing in the wind and have not taken root. That may be because people are very slow to change and quick to revert to instinctive fears (fears I give you wrongly stoked by Westminster an Washington), but the English are unlikely to be truly anymore racist than the Scottish or Welsh or Irish. Of course some of them they may be slow at times, but there you go.

    At heart nationalism is not commendable. A sense of belonging and history are important and give strength and foster genuine open hearted inclusivity. We all have grievances on this island with one another. We should not exploit them, but recognise them and work together.

    When you look at other geo-political areas you note how the regional or global power broker has an interest in fostering a balance of power and preventing the emergence of a strong unit. You may consider that Britain as a unit as failed its test and deserves to be split (and Craig this does seem to be your message when it comes to Scotland), but who really benefits from this island splitting up? The answer is those other countries who would like to exploit our weakness.

      • fred

        I don’t think it matters. He is saying it is a general feature of all peoples to think themselves superior to other peoples and it is a common feature of all Nationalists to exploit this illusion.

    • fred

      In Scotland we don’t have a difference of language. But they are attempting to create one.

    • Old Mark

      I don’t buy into this racist England but Scotland is tolerant concept.

      fwl- the only people on this thread who actually believe that concept are those inhabiting the ScotNat mental bubble.

      Any consideration of how Irish immigrants were treated in Scotland in previous centuries when compared to their treatment in England and Wales shows what utter bollocks this ‘tolerant Scotland’ concept is. In England anti Irish prejudice had largely died out by the early 60s, when it was still going strong north of the border. Even in Lancashire, where anti Irish sentiment was strongest, the 2 historic ‘Prod’ football tams, Liverpool and Man City, had ‘mixed’ followings by post WW2, whereas north of the border, knowing which team in Glasgow, Edinburgh or Dundee you supported was a nearly foolproof way of determining someone’s ethnic origin.

      I’m sure that Craig finds his neighbours in Edinburgh rather more relaxed about immigration than were his former neighbours in Ramsgate- but to conclude from that that Scotland overall is ‘tolerant’ and England ‘racist’ is an elementary error not becoming someone of Craig’s intelligence.

      • fwl

        Thanks for replies. A few years ago, but as Fred says my point doesn’t depend upon my subjective evaluation.

  • Robert Lim

    It all depends in what fashion this is done. I have lived and worked in numerous East Asian countries, and in order to navigate society it is standard practice to produce documents stating my visa or residence status. I do not see anything fascist about it. I am not a Korean, Japanese, Chinese nor a Malaysia citizen, and I do not expect to be considered one, unless I become one. Carrying ID or producing it to open a bank account or check into a hotel is completely reasonable to my mind. I apply for work visas, therefore I can work here. I have no inalienable right to do this. I follow the laws and regulations of my host country. It is normal in many many countries for governments to look out for, first and foremost, its own citizens, quaint as it might sound. Craig, if its jackboots at the door at midnight then you might have a point. However, bandying about the word ‘fascism’ because the government has finally and belatedly cottoned on to how to tackle the problem, is simply not a fair description of their methods nor their intentions. Why shouldn’t a sovereign country be able to apply quotas like that if it so wishes? Had it done so sooner then this nativist backlash probably would not have developed as it has.

      • Macky

        Totally irreverent to the fact that tiny Greece managed to absorb that number of refugees.

        Despite identifying as Greek because of their religion, a large proportion of them didn’t even speak Greek, only Turkish, I don’t much like your attempt to rewrite history, as the Greeks were promised the area around Smyrna, which since the dawn of history had always been overwhelming Greek, as a reward for their participation in WW1, and it was only at the instigation, and against their wishes, that they were encouraged by Britain & France to march onto Ankara, a nonsensical mission, thousands of miles into the Anatolian wild heartland, and all because they wanted to keep the Greeks away from Constantinople. That the Greeks were soon betrayed by their Western Allies, who suddenly decided to back Ataturk, who was then also being armed by the Russian, ensured that the Greeks were routed, and the Greek presence from time immemorial in Asia Minor was wiped out.

        • Habbabkuk

          Baal’s point is correct, Macks.

          Post WW1 Greece took back its own (in every sense except holding a Greek passport).

          The current wave of refugees and economic migrants are not Europe’s own.

          So it is your attempted comparison with post WW1-Greece which is irrelevant.

        • Ba'al Zevul

          I don’t dispute your history (much), but I don’t think the circumstances – not dissimilar to the encouragement given by us to Syrian dissidents, followed by cries of ‘oooo-er…’ and a lack of follow-through – alter the point I was making, which is that the Anatolian Greeks had a lot more in common with their hosts – Greek Orthodoxy being central to this – than Latvians, Somalis and Nigerians do with us. Certainly, some only spoke Turkish, but Turkish was not unknown in Greece, which had been under Ottoman rule not that long beforehand. Both Izmir and European Greece had a similar cultural heritage.

          Talking of the promise of Izmir to its Greek community – the gift was not the WW1 Allies’ to give. As Kemal adequately demonstrated.

          • Paul Barbara

            To say nothing of what the Brits did to Greece immediately after WWII, which was fight the Greeks who had resisted Hitler, and put in power those who had supported them (telling the British squaddies that the Greek Patriots were Fascists.

          • Macky

            Sorry Ba’al, but you & most others here are surreally avoiding the point, why is it that small poor countries, like Lebanon,Jordan, etc can take millions of refugess, but large rich countries can’t ?

            I used Greece in 1922 as an example that if there is a will, there is always a way.

            As to the magnanimity of promising land indigenously inhabited by Greeks to Greece, (after the bribe of giving Cyprus failed), it was as duplicitous as promising Palestine both to the Palestinians & to the Jews, as secretly Smyrna & its hinterland was promised to the Italians).

          • Macky

            Ba’al; “Maybe that was your point, Macky, but it wasn’t mine.”

            Yes I’ve noticed that you & other posters who bring up objections to immigration on the grounds that Britain is full, and that it’s infrastructures cannot cope,etc, are very keen to avoid addressing how much smaller, poorer countries manage to cope with huge numbers of refugees.

          • Ba'al Zevul

            Please learn to distinguish between ‘avoidance’ and ‘irrelevance’, Macky. As in ‘ It is irrelevant what other countries are doing – we’re talking about this one.’ Of course, if you really have to go there, some of those smaller countries are accommodating refugees because they have no option, as the economic migrants flood across their open borders, uninhibited by border controls. Wonderful. And don’t forget, Macky, migrants boost the economy while requiring no additional infrastructure, so really those small countries are quids-in. Yeah?

          • Ba'al Zevul

            Oh, and btw, how’s tiny little Russia coping with the Syrian refugee crisis it has hasn’t contributed so massively to? Figures are hard to find, but Western estimates seem to be in the 3500 area, over the five years of the conflict. Sputnik claims 2000 former citizens of Aleppo in Noginsk, though. Interesting location*. Its population has declined steadily since at least 1989, which means that, unlike London, there’s probably room for them.

            *for inland Russia, anyway. But hardly the new Byzantium

          • Macky

            Ba’al; “Please learn to distinguish between ‘avoidance’ and ‘irrelevance’, Macky. As in ‘ It is irrelevant what other countries are doing – we’re talking about this one.’ ”

            A cheap disingenuous, if not fallacious, comment to make on a debating thread discussing immigration.

            Ba’al; “Of course, if you really have to go there, some of those smaller countries are accommodating refugees because they have no option,”

            But that they do is the point. Neither Lebanon or Jordon for example, have sunk under the weight of all the millions of refugees that they host, both countries seems to function unhindered too much as to affect their own populations enough to complain or indulge in race riots as a response.

            Ba’al; “” Macky, migrants boost the economy while requiring no additional infrastructure, so really those small countries are quids-in. Yeah?”

            So it basically seems to comes down to the perception that hosting refugees will cost money in infrastructure, etc, to the detriment of your perceived standard of living; both perceptions I believe are wrong, in that ways & means can be found to virtually completely mitigate them, and especially in the background of the greatest refugees crises since WW2, and one that we have played a large part in creating, it is something that we certainly should do.

  • Dual National

    The winning formula is a simple one.

    First attack other countries and destroy their infrastructure and essential means necessary for life.
    Second scream blue murder when the dispossessed and the refugees start turning up at your door step!

    Third gee up the same dumb populations whom sat idly idly and let their taxations funds to be fired on the homes of the same bunch of refugees whom have now turned up on their door steps, and these obligingly right on cue start beating up on the said refugees adding insult to injury.

    It is lamentable to read the pro racist and xenophobic comments in this blog, forwarded by a bunch of troglodytes who can hardly discern their thumbs from their index finger, yet are steadfastly opining about the “floods” of refugees and “immigrants” to this country.

    You dumb morons, your elite are not paying you a living wage, you are told to go fuck yourselves if you are old or infirm or ill! Your taxation funds are being spent on oppressing dispossessing the poor foreigners who are now reduced to stateless homeless refugees, wandering from border to border.

    Sum total of your efforts are to come out with the brainfarts you have?

    Stopping the aggression and condemning the so called “democracy” spreading bombs and bullets are far too sensible to pass through your diseased brains, isn’t it?

    There again beating upon the defenseless and dispossession of the already dispossessed is so much more fun, never mind any sense!

  • mark golding

    The Real Deal:

    Rebel fire kills swimmer with ‘big dreams’ in Syria’s Aleppo:

    https://au.news.yahoo.com/world/a/32813586/rebel-fire-kills-swimmer-with-big-dreams-in-syrias-aleppo/#page1

    The death of Syrian star swimmer Mireille Hindoyan and her 12 yr old brother was reported in the Independent Newspaper with the words:
    It was not immediately clear who was responsible for the attacks, but hospital facilities have been plagued by bombing by forces loyal to the Syrian government in recent weeks

    and the words:
    Medecins Sans Frontieres (MSF) said there had been a “bloodbath” in Aleppo amid a sustained assault on the city by pro-Assad forces backed by Russian warplanes.

    I must ask ex KGB officer Alexander Lebedev whether he is so pissed off with Moscow intelligentsia he succumbs to the corrupt international affairs and policies of a third grade British think-tank called Chatham House.

  • Karl Kolchack

    As a citizen of the US, I have to disagree with one point: immigration is in fact being heavily used to drive down the wages of the working class, and not just the white working class. This is why Republicans, the party of business, have until Trump been the biggest proponents of unfettered immigration, even as the Obama administration has deported illegal immigrants in record numbers.

    The impact of both immigration and the offshoring of factory jobs can be easily seen in the fact that only about the top 20% of American workers have seen their incomes increase since the 1970s, while the average wage of the lowest 80& has actually decreased–and wealth inequality has returned to where it stood before the New Deal.

  • Brianfujisan







    A boat and its 13-woman crew sailing toward the shores of occupied Gaza was taken into custody by the Israeli navy this afternoon, ending a month-long sea voyage to “break the siege on Gaza.” The Israeli military said the vessel–organized by the international activist group the Women’s Boat to Gaza–was still in international waters, around 35 nautical miles from the Israeli port of Ashdod, at the time of the “uneventful” seizure.

    “We do not know where our friends are,” the Women’s Boat to Gaza said in a statement in the hours after they lost communication with the sailors, “The U.S. embassy confirmed that the boat was intercepted.”

    – See more at: http://mondoweiss.net/2016/10/friends-israels-commandeers/#sthash.N0GMrPvS.dpuf

    • Alan

      Here is a report on the Israel Lobby and the European Union, as you have brought the subject up.

      http://www.spinwatch.org/index.php/issues/lobbying/item/5864-press-release-new-report-details-extent-of-israel-lobby-in-brussels-connections-to-us-islamophobia-industry-and-illegal-settlements

      “Researched and written by Public Interest Investigations/Spinwatch and published by EuroPal Forum, the report reveals the extent to which noted American funders and proponents of the Islamophobia industry in the United States and Israel’s illegal settlement project in the occupied West Bank and east Jerusalem are also financing the expanding Israel lobby in Brussels.”

      Hey Craig and RoS, leave the UK and join the EU – same old shit from different faces!

      • Ba'al Zevul

        I****l has been doing that for a long time, aided by large amounts of private money. It has an overwhelming lobby footprint in the US, and approval by AIPAC is mandatory for any politician seeking office and campaign funding. Both Labour and the Tories here are or have recently been indebted to I****l-backing donors, to say nothing of the large parliamentary Friends of I****l groups – Labour, Tory and Liberal – why should it be any different in Brussels? True, it’s been using a backdoor approach, notably with the so-called European *ewish Council, run by Moishe Kantor, which has no official connection with the EU whatever, but allows it to be thought that it does, also that it represents European *ews. It doesn’t. It represents I****l. Its spinoff, the European Council for Tolerance and Reconciliation, is also about as European as the Temple of Solomon, and the billionaire Kantor last year recruited one A.C.Blair as its chair. The tolerance and reconciliation it promotes is entirely unidirectional.

        (Redactions to avoid spam filter)

      • Republicofscotland

        Alan.

        I think you’ll find that Westminster is riddled with Friends of Israel, Scottish independence would at least negate that.

1 2 3 4

Comments are closed.