Opposing Populist Chauvinism is not Elitism 384


History demonstrates the evils that arise from whipping up popular xenophobic nationalism. After the Tories trumpeted that companies will have to declare how many foreigners they employ, that foreign doctors will be phased out of the NHS, that taxi drivers will have to prove their immigration status, that fewer foreigners will be allowed to study at British universities and that landlords will have to check the papers of their foreign tenants, we will now be told by Theresa May that to oppose this surge of fascism is elitism. I call it fascist after careful consideration; I don’t know what else to call it. Immigrants to Britain are going to be hauled up to produce documents at numerous moments of daily life to prove their right to be here. They will not yet need to be identified by yellow stars, but anybody who does not see the direction of travel is a fool.

The ability of politicians and media to whip up popular racism is well demonstrated historical fact. I am simply appalled by the catalogue I have outlined above. It is astonishing to me that popular opinion, particularly in England, has been conditioned to the point where outright racism has become the accepted everyday level of political discourse. And it is not just the Tories. Blairites are using populist anti-immigrant rhetoric as their most potent attack on Corbyn. Rachel Reeves made a speech last week that channelled Enoch Powell in predicting violent reaction to immigrants, and in some ways was worse than Powell’s classical allusion. But while Powell’s anti-immigrant rant ended his chances of becoming Prime Minister in a more decent age, Reeves is firmly in today’s UK establishment mainstream.

The argument that immigration is impacting the living standards of ordinary working people is a demonstrable falsehood. If mass immigration made a country’s people poorer, then Germany and the USA would have the lowest living standards for ordinary citizens in the world. An economy is not a thing of fixed size with a set number of jobs. If it were not for immigration, there would have been no economic growth in the UK at all since the millennium.

The march of Tory militarism continues apace. Today we will have a further glorying in the creation of weapons of mass destruction, while yesterday scarcely a hair was turned at the announcement of the reintroduction of military cadet forces in our state schools, to instil militarism and xenophobic patriotism into children. The attempt to elide patriotism, militarism, monarchism and the interests of the corporate elite would be laughable were it not successful.

There is no doubt that the racist mood in England is real, and there is no doubt that it is racist. I have never accepted the argument that to oppose immigration is not racist, and consider myself entirely vindicated by current events. The argument that to oppose immigration is not racist is precisely the same as the argument that holocaust denial is not anti-semitic – you can make out a theoretical case that it isn’t, but in practice it works as an extremely good indicator.

It is ironic that May accuses the opponents of popular chauvinism as elitist. The Tory Conference has had two key themes – one is xenophobic nationalism, and the other is educational elitism. The grammar school policy is being driven through, along with the school military cadets – what kind of crazed government is this? But the significance on the attack on the university sector should not be missed. Overseas students are a vital source of revenue and all are already seeing a drop in interest as nobody wants to live in a country where they will be the subject of patent racist hostility, while EU students cannot know where they will stand on fee structures by the end of their course. However the announcement that “new” universities will be treated differently in terms of numbers of overseas students allowed is a major departure that will inevitably spread into other areas; a de facto return to polytechnic status is in the offing.

The new Tory self-confidence was evidenced also in attitudes to Scotland. Theresa May could not have been more explicit that Scotland is but a part of the UK, that the UK voted for Brexit, that Westminster will handle Brexit negotiations and she really does not care what the Scots think. There very plainly is no process, or any intention of any process, that could result in Scotland maintaining a more integrated relationship with the EU while within the United Kingdom. That idea was always fantastical anyway, as it would be an impossibility to accommodate such an arrangement within EU treaties, as I have previously explained. But the gradualists in the SNP have sought to pretend that such a process is happening of which we need to see the outcome before an Independence referendum.

What Theresa May has done this week is publically to rend Nicola Sturgeon’s tabard, and make absolutely plain that Brexit will be organised, negotiated and decided by the UK government and parliament alone. The Scottish parliament will have associated legislative changes, even on devolved matters, imposed on it from above. Scotland’s response to this has so far been alarmingly supine.

I support Scottish Independence passionately because I have an urgent desire to get away from the control of these appalling Tories. I want to live in a society where I can dissent from populist racism without being condemned by the government as a liberal elitist. I also firmly believe that the shock of the break up of the UK is the dislocation required to break the grip of the Tories and UKIP on the psyche of so much of the public in England. It can provide the revolutionary moment for change that Corbyn and those like him can exploit. Scottish independence is the best hope for the rest of the UK too.


384 thoughts on “Opposing Populist Chauvinism is not Elitism

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  • Ba'al Zevul

    Peter Oborne continues to talk sense, as the Daily Mail festers around him. What’s he doing there?

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3824347/PETER-OBORNE-No-stunts-Theresa-s-speech-long-overdue-moral-vision-Britain.html

    Like Oborne, I think May’s been rather clever, though whether she’s successful in attracting the underprivileged vote depends completely on whether she can deliver, against the will of some of her cash-crazed colleagues.

    And, on the sidebar of shame, April Love Geary (who she?) is definitely worth a visit.

    https://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2016/10/05/19/3922A09600000578-3823913-image-a-29_1475693392343.jpg

    • nevermind

      Indeed whether she can deliver is the key. looking at all the ‘deliveries we had under Cameron and before him Major, i fail to find any that would reduce the rift that exist between poor and rich,far from it, the evidence shows that this gap is rising inexorably. This underlying fascism of islanders is quiet peculiar as it exist elsewhere and only comes out when politicians chime the right tone’s.

      It is down to Farrage, in charge agagin, that the tone has deteriorated and its down to the dumb Tories for following his tunes like the rats of Hamelin folowing the piper,(sorry Hameln), any piper.

      The general public is still not prepared to challenge the status quo as it must, nothing else will change the current tax drain, nothing will stop the privatisation of the NHS. Fact here in Norfolk is that we were promised more staff, 500 nurses, less than 50 was the real figure.
      People are being asked to trust those politicians who minutes( three month ago) lied to them from the top of their voice, hallo Bojo, Cameron and Will Straw, the little chop of the rotten old Block that is his father.
      We are aping dynasty politics because our democracy does not work for voters, its designed to be manipulated by politicians and a few hollow slogans, at the right time, when the media focuses on fine Conference words.
      And still we have the underlying agenda of hurting Corbyn, driving the status quo agenda forward, no change, just more anxious, self serving and at times threatening waffle of the same kind and more restrictive practises.

      keep those masses interested in cum duncing, Balls and all, and ensure that the cheating football clubs keep us happy over the weekend, I mean extra time is a piece of rubber and when Englands win is on the racks we don’t mind if 4 min. means 4 min 41 seconds.
      Hard Brexit will focus minds and our family will have a get together, see what’s best for the kids in future and then decide what to do. I’m afraid that I do not believe that any change will ever happen in these isles of the scary.

    • deepgreenpuddock

      Hello Mr. Zevul
      The Peter Oborne article is interesting. It is essentially a re-statement of the tension that exists between technological change and political control. Essentially, politics and politicians either retard or accelerate or endorse technical change. The US and its government are essentially technocratic and have been for many decades now(all of the 20th century and some of the 19th as well). Of course there are a number of philosophical/cultural conflicts in the US but the unifying vision is a technical one.
      My sense of the meaning of this is that all human factors- (let that mean cultural and traditional and conservative social features-{note small c} are generally impediments to technical change. For instance static, stable, property owning communities,extended families living in large groups, linguistic stability are an obstruction to technical innovation.By technical innovation I mean not just machine or electronic innovation but also managerial, administrative or bureaucratic innovation, and software and technical language systems.
      I think what has happened over the last 30-40 years is that the process of technical change has been greatly accelerated by the political systems of recent times. Oborne point out that Blair/Cameron are essentially internationalist liberals (I would include Clinton here) who believe that the technical processes and changes are inevitable and should be embraced-indeed not just embraced-but actively pursued. The interesting aspect of this is our whitewashing of the military campaigns which are essentially actions agains outposts of protectionism and socialism where, by a variety of means there was resistance to the infiltration of the internal markets of these countries and where religious and cultural attributes made technical change difficult due to the conservatism of the population. If we regard Iraq and Syria as somewhere o the spectrum of ‘socialism'(ok veering into ‘national socialism’ and personality cult but socialist after a fashion where essential services were controlled, organised and distributed outside the (ideological) so called ‘free’ market of the US and EU, and thereby minimising losses to outside organisations/interests. Afghanistan was an enemy more because it was culturally resistant to outside intervention and its conservatism in cultural and religious matters meant that it was very difficult/impossible to persuade them to take part in the technical miracle of the west. For instance access to the technical miracle involves the abandonment of the restraints on freedom of labour, which in turn inevitably leads to emancipation and social freedoms for women, and the loosening of traditional values and the veering towards permissiveness -especially related to sexuality but also other personal values such as the formulation of commercial agreements and transactions, which were pre-disposed to favour familial and tribal connections. This was very vigorously resisted within Afghanistan. In effect it is like destroying one’s own culture, but without the benefit of a long period of time in which to absorb the shocks. In a sense the western model.
      Another interesting conflict is the Serbian conflict. Essentially that was also a form of socialism and had to be eliminated to free the path of the globalisers and entrepreneurial/profiteering spirit to the Balkans and beyond. Milosovich and the remnants of socialism and the cultural qualities imbued by it were actually reasonably successful and represented a very considerable challenge to the neoliberal west.
      The interesting question is this: Is the Blair/Clinton/Cameron conception going to prevail-IOW is technical change a relentless and unstoppable force-or can politicans like May actually place ‘govern’ i.e. (in the sense of retard) the process sufficiently to appease te discomforts and population dislocations and cultural adjustments that inevitably arise from that process.
      Essentially I see May as a Putin-esque figure.In a certain sense she is Putinising the UK. She will (rhetorically) promote re-establishment of traditional values and methods e.g. Grammar schools-a near perfect example as it re-establishes ‘discipline’ and the appearance of something like ‘objective merit'( it isn’t- but most people ignore the travesty that this selectivity entails). Personally i think she will fail to control the technical forces of such systems as the Banking industry and end up wth some kind of Putin style oligarchy. I think this partly because I think ( a bit like Blair) that technical change has developed a head of steam that is essentially unstoppable and the levers available to the political process are very limited. Mayism will flounder under the weight of the technical demands on an ever-growing population and ever more compromised issues of competition for resources, with all the attendant problems that that
      brings.

      • Ba'al Zevul

        DGP, sir/madam – Really good to see someone capable of thinking the issues through and expressing their thoughts. Thank you, thank you. I hope you won’t think I’m being snide if I suggest that your comment would read more easily if broken into shortish paragraphs – it’s not dumbing-down, but an essential tool of communication IMO.

        To the point – I’ve just been listening to a short R4 discussion between two academic economists, which made very much the same points as you. and while one (in Britain) recognised the impact of borderless trade, with lack of any effective controls on corporate behviour, in promoting inequality, the other (US) inclined more to blaming, or more accurately crediting technology, and letting the bankers off the hook. Still fetishised by both was the notion of economic growth as the be-all and end-all of human existence. Mentioned by neither, as Florida prepares to be inundated, was any kind of future accommodation of climate change in their economic outlook. Frankly, I think that’s going to be the killer punch for economic globalism.

        The American one was of your opinion, that the problem consisted in getting us faceless masses to adapt to continuous and unremitting technologically-driven change, but managed to avoid the topics of whether such change was (a) necessary, (b) benign. It was, however unavoidable in her view. (I would like to distinguish clearly between you, who simply see this coming, and Blair – and, oh yes indeed, Clinton – who actively promote and disseminate the religion. Please give me grounds for hope, here.)

        The BBC’s strapline for this section of The World at Ten was along the lines of: ‘Can Globalism Return?’ – implying that globalism is a busted flush already. The usual antiglobal suspects, Trump, Farage et al were cited as being symptomatic of this. But clearly globalism is alive, well, and hoping enough governments will mortgage enough of their peoples’ future to keep it going on its merry way. Something much harder to do when this had to be done on printing-presses, incidentally, but proof that some dollars are more global than others…

        My view is that everything is kept in a constant state of flux and our poor little monkey brains can’t keep up with it. We’ve passed the limits of any possible comprehension of what’s going on, even if we had unlimited access to it, and we don’t. Which suits the global elites (sorry to have to use that cliche, but it serves) very sweetly. It’s just possible that May, as I did, said to herself at the end of that programme, “Well, stop bloody changing things, eh?” Which, thus far and no further, makes us both palaeoconservatives. I’ll defend that in my case by suggesting that socialism is inherently globalist, and however much damage it can do to the current crop of elites, it will be compelled to throw up its own if it gets the political whip hand. All I can support now is a policy of mulish resistance to innovation for innovation’s, or “growth’s” sake. Hence my temporary sympathy for what May says, and I share your reservationa as to what she can actually do.

      • SA

        But the real underlying motive is not the spread of technology it is using the technology to make money for the few. Some of this ‘technology involving the banks is purely casino technology. I don’t think that socialism and technology are enemies and I also don’t think that technology or any form of progress can be monopolised by one set or other of ideologies. The neat fitting together of labels to suit s theory doesn’t always work.

    • K Crosby

      A naked appeal to racism won’t attract working-class voters, only encourage middle and lower-middle class racists. Her talk won’t last as long as yesterday’s newspaper.

  • Mark Flett

    ” I want to live in a society where I can dissent from populist racism without being condemned by the government as a liberal elitist.” – Spot on Craig

  • Alcyone

    “Seeking achievement,you will be a cause of war
    So long as there is nationalism, so long as you are a German or a Russian or an American, clinging to sovereignty, to an exclusive nationality, you are sure to have war. So long as you are a Christian and I am a Hindu, or you are a Muslim and I am a Buddhist, there is bound to be war. So long as you are ambitious, wanting to reach the top of your society, seeking achievement and worshiping success, you will be a cause of war.”
    Hamburg 1956, J Krishnamurti

    We are 7 billion idiots, dancing in the dark, on a pinhead in the Universe. Understand that, see it, then go from there. See that we are medieval man, see that we are a Type Zero Global Civilisation. It’s not just global warming; it’s also global pollution of our brains. And corporations having to list out their ‘foreign’ employees takes the cake. Stephen Hawking wants us to prepare for War with visiting aliens! They’ll zap us and squish us out in seconds. Funny little shoddy world we live in. One can only laugh!

    • Alan

      “We are 7 billion idiots, dancing in the dark, on a pinhead in the Universe”

      The trouble is that some of the idiots, including Mr Hawking, see themselves as “enlightened” and thus “worthy” to be able to cast judgement on others.

  • nevermind

    Nicola Sturgeon, First Minister of Scotland

    Jonathan Bartley, co-leader of the Green Party of England and Wales

    Caroline Lucas, co-leader of the Green Party of England and Wales

    Leanne Wood, Leader of Plaid Cymru

    Steven Agnew, Leader of the Green Party of Northern Ireland

    Patrick Harvie, Co-convener of the Scottish Green Party

    Alice Hooker-Stroud, Leader of the Wales Green Party

    The countries of the United Kingdom face a spiralling political and economic crisis. At the top of the Conservative Party, the narrow vote in favour of leaving the EU has now been interpreted as the pretext for a drastic cutting of ties with Europe, which would have dire economic results – and as an excuse for the most toxic rhetoric on immigration we have seen from any government in living memory.

    This is a profoundly moral question which gets to the heart of what sort of country we think we live in. We will not tolerate the contribution of people from overseas to our NHS being called into question, or a new version of the divisive rhetoric of ‘British jobs for British workers’. Neither will we allow the people of these islands, no matter how they voted on June 23rd, to be presented as a reactionary, xenophobic mass whose only concern is somehow taking the UK back to a lost imperial age. At a time of increasing violence and tension, we will call out the actions of politicians who threaten to enflame those same things.

    This is not a time for parties to play games, or meekly respect the tired convention whereby they do not break cover during each other’s conferences. It is an occasion for us to restate the importance of working together to resist the Tories’ toxic politics, and make the case for a better future for our people and communities. We will do this by continuing to work and campaign with the fierce sense of urgency this political moment demands.

    ENDS

    Not much to be added, except for the Labour Party that supports change. This has effectively sidelined anybody who has not made their minds up and I’m looking forward to a common manifesto for change of sorts.

    whatever you may think of the SNP Plaid or the Greens, its time to act against this fascist revival of Enoch Powell’s island fascism.

  • SA

    Of course immigration cannot be limitless but as the coalition found out, it is very difficult to control whilst balancing our duties to the rest of humanity and whilst also fulfilling the need of the country in terms of need for workers. And whereas governments until now have failed to limit the number of immigrants from the EU because of open borders EU policy, it has also failed to control the equal number of immigrants from non-EU countries. It is therefore very cynical of the current government to turn this into an EU issue and to capitalise on vulgar nationalism to turn UK into a xenophobic country. Note also the arrogance of people like Boris and Liam who claim that the rest of the world need us more than we need them and that therefore they will trade with ous on our terms regardless.
    On a separate note I am not sure why the 52% have so much sway now and the wishes of the 48% are ignored, it is not as if the referendum showed an overwhelming decisive vote. We are becoming a divided nation.

    • michael norton

      SA you are suffering.

      The Referendum could only either be yes or no.
      The result was for BREXIT.
      Now you have been told
      BREXIT MEANS BREXIT

      do you still not get it.
      It means over half of those bothered enough to vote, voted for BREXIT.
      It is simple to understand, for almost anyone.

      http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business
      The boss of a sofa-making company said it is “very disappointing” that Home Secretary Amber Rudd accused his firm of recruiting “exclusively” from Romania and Poland.

      If I walk up to my town, all you can hear is workers speaking in Eastern European languages.
      They are recruited from their homelands by agents.

      We are fucking sick of it, that is why we voted BREXIT

      • michael norton

        Firms targeted

        On Wednesday, the new home secretary defended plans to make firms do more to employ British people, saying “don’t call me a racist” for talking about immigration.

        Under her proposals, firms could be forced to disclose what percentage of their workforce is non-British as a way to encourage them to hire more locals.

        The home secretary believes firms are “getting away” with not training enough British workers and the existing resident labour test – which requires firms to advertise vacancies in the UK for 28 days before looking outside the EU – should be toughened up.

      • SA

        You missed my point. This is not a zero sum game and the 48% cannot be ignored completely. If you do then you will get a divided nation and a racist divided nation. The referendum was a complex one but sadly now seems to be distilled into immigration and British jobs for British people. This will lead to isolationism and the worst type of xenophobia. It is not that Amber Rudd may be a racist, it is that she is catering to the racists for political purposes as she sees this the flavour of the day.

        • Old Mark

          Talk about missing the point SA- motes and beams immediately spring to mind on reading this pathetic comment.
          1.There isn’t a snowflake in hell’s chance of the ‘48%’ -as you refer to yourself- being ‘ingored, diddums. The opinions of the 48% still predominate at the Times, Graun, Observer, Mirror and Beeb,so Billy no mates you ain’t.
          2.Amber Rudd is also one of the 48%- or have you forgotten her TV appearances for Remain pre referendum?
          3. If it is OK- indeed a good thing- for companies to be required to publicise the ethnic breakdown of their work forces (as the Equalities Commission is constantly badgering them to do) why is it a bad thing to pubicise similar information about the citizenship status of their employees ?

          • SA

            WEll what can I say? Amber Rudd was officially pro remain, so was TM though not visibly so and so was the leadership of the Tory party. But they have now decided that the populist thing to do is to bash foreigners and patronise the marginal minority that voted remain. Your triumphalism will come to haunt you and not in the very distant future,

        • Alan

          Yes they can! If they want to remain in the EU they are completely free to leave this country right up until we actually leave the E.U.

          And yes, it is that simple, just stop your whining and go!

          • Alan

            “You don’t own the country you know.”

            Actually, as we supposedly live in a democracy, I do!

          • Old Mark

            SA-

            Why is monitoring of the workforce by nationality in your view synonynous with ‘foreigner bashing’ and ipso facto a ‘bad thing’ ?
            Monitoring by ethnicity is a required under the Equalities Act, and the Remainers bleating about Rudd’s latest proposals have not, AFAIK, called for these clauses in the Act to be repealed.
            So one can only conclude that to the bog standard Remainer-
            1.Ethnic monitoring is a good thing, and imposes no extra ‘red tape’ burden upon employers.
            2. Monitoring by nationality status is a very bad thing, and of course imposes ‘unfair burdens’ on the poor harassed buisinessman.

            It is good to see Remainers like SA exposing their defective thought patterns so brazenly.

    • Sharp Ears

      See what’s going on in your area.

      http://frack-off.org.uk/locations/regions/

      A connection between Cuadrilla and HMG

      Cuadrilla boss continues lobbying from inside government
      August 26, 2013

      Cuadrilla boss and government employee Lord John Browne has yet again met senior government officials to press the case for Cuadrilla Resources, recent documents show.

      Browne has repeatedly used his position within the Cabinet Office to press for advantages for the UK’s notorious fracker; most recently (so far as we know) pressing the case with Lord Smith (head of the Environment Agency), for exemptions to EA regulations in November 2012.

      At the end of 2011/early 2012 Browne held separate meetings with then Ministers Chris Huhne and Greg Barker.

      He later brought in Cuadrilla senior management to lobby senior Civil Servant Lord Marland (then Parliamentary Under Secretary of State for Energy and Climate Change), followed by then Minister Charles Hendry on the 2nd July 2012.

      Anonymous sources also claim Browne has held many unofficial meetings at DECC, none of which were officially recorded.

      Even other fracking companies must wonder at this fracking overlord’s continued access to government officials.

      Yet why on earth is Lord Browne allowed free reign to roam around goverment advocating for Cuadrilla Resources? How many times must he be caught pushing for fracking before he’s brought to heel?

      The answer is simple: it won’t happen. These millionaire overlords exist in a gilded sphere of influence that no public outing can prevent. We can write letters, object to planning, input into consultations – and the only thing that will happen is that Lord Browne will whisper in someone’s ear – the rest is ignored.

      There is a rat here, and he stinks to high heaven. Take action: join the Great Gas Gala at Balcombe and show Lord Browne what you think of his fracking plans.

      http://frack-off.org.uk/cuadrilla-boss-continues-lobbying-from-inside-government/

  • Chris Rogers

    Quite a few posts issued on the attachment of Cadet Forces to schools, which too me at least reeks of a Public School ethos best avoided at all costs. On the other hand, I’m a firm believer in the benefits of the Cadet Force, in my instance I was a member of the Gwent Army Cadet Force in the early 80s, same as I’m a firm believer in the Territorials, neither of which ever clashed with my socialism, or for that matter installed any jingoism within me, quite the reverse in fact.

    As an aside to this dialogue, I remember well a brother of a friend who delivered a lecture to us not long after he returned from the Falkland’s Campaign – I remember it well because he was a member of the Royal Regiment of Wales, which the Gwent ACF was attached too, but more importantly, he was on the Sir Galahad when it was bombed and lucky to escape almost unscathed, apart from a few minor burns and having his ear drums blown out as a result of the blast. Their was no jingoism in his talk, no effort to hide the full horror of what he witnessed and no encouragement for us to join the UK Military.

    Apart from that, the time I spent with the ACF was good, we were expected to dress correctly, have well polished and maintained footwear, cooperate as a team – whilst we had an opportunity to fire Lee Enfield’s, these being our issued rifles, it was but one part of what we did, which entailed map reading skills, first aid, orienteering, army assault courses, attendance at Salisbury Plain, Ten Tors, driving, communications – you name it really.

    So, I’m not opposed to the expansion of our Cadet Forces, indeed I encourage it, but I do not believe such Units should be attached to Schools, which seems almost mandatory to me and counterproductive.

    • Paul Barbara

      The TA are used in British overseas wars and interventions as well, which makes them a part of our War-mongering interference abroad.
      In that they ‘take their orders’, and the Queens Shilling, and go where they’re sent, and kill who they’re told to kill, they are as bad as Regular troops.
      Maybe you believe Britain is right to go murdering people all over the globe; I and many on this Forum and in this country (and in the countries they go to ‘save’ or to bring ‘Democracy’ to) disagree with you, and equate the interventions and wars to just another form of Colonialism.

      • Chris Rogers

        Actually Paul, I’m a firm believer in Citizens Armies and Conscription, and its not because I’m in anyway a Rightist, quite the reverse, a conscript army contains, or should contain, all segments of society – including the Elites offspring. Its one thing to send working class cannon fodder into battle, quite another to send your own in to battle, so would make the buggers think twice, particularly if deferment was only possible due to health issues, or, the individual happens to be a pacifist – suggest you like at the domestic politics of the USA during the Vietnam War era to see what happens when the Elite pull’s its kids out of the front line, once reason many turned against the war because of the crass hypocrisy involved.

        • K Crosby

          You may have a point because the two British citizen armies of 1915-1918 and 1939-1963 either fought just wars or an opponent who could gibe them a run for their money. The army reverted to a mercenary rabble after 1963 and especially after Thatchler turned the state forces into one of the few places that offered working-lass people full-time, permanent jobs. That said I haven’t heard of conscripts refusing orders in the dirty wars in Malaya and Kenya….

  • Alan

    History also demonstrates the evils that arise from Imperial Overreach. Shall we take a look at that little matter Craig?

    https://consortiumnews.com/2016/06/25/european-unions-imperial-overreach/

    The European Union’s haughty and hasty expansion into low-wage Eastern Europe may be its undoing, as the Brexit vote shows popular resistance to the westward migration of workers that followed, writes Jonathan Marshall.

    The E.U.’s future will require serious self-examination on many fronts, but especially about its grandiose ambitions for expansion, but for the moment all we are getting are people attaching blame to everybody but themselves, the ones with the “Big Is Better” mindset.

    • Paul Barbara

      I can’t answer for Craig, but I would suggest all potential immigrants are required to eat a haggis – that should cut down the numbers considerably!

      • lysias

        Once, when I was visiting Edinburgh, I ordered haggis, which happened to be on the menu in the restaurant where I was eating. Menu or not, the waitress brought me haddock. I had to insist that what I wanted was haddock. Does this mean that the Edinenses don’t go in for haggis?

        At the Royal Mile Pub in Silver Spring, Maryland just outside D.C., which unfortunately closed a couple of years ago, haggis was a regular on the menu, and I often ordered it.

        • Habbabkuk

          Our Transatlantic Friend posted the same”comment” – almost word for word – a year or two back.

    • Habbabkuk

      Ha!

      I would suggest something like the following as a way of avoiding the sort of answer you’re looking for : “A democratic, egalitarian and independent Scotland, freed from the clutches of a neo-liberal Westminster government, will harness fully the talents of its people and Scots who have been obliged to emigrate to England and further afield in search of jobs and opportunities will come flooding back to boost the workforce”.

  • Republicofscotland

    The Fraser of Allander institute, has produced a report on the effects of Brexit, using different models. The “hard Brexit” which appears to be the most likely scenario, shows that Scotland alone will lose up to 80,000 jobs.

    The model doesn’t cater for what the job losses are expected be in the rUK, but I’m pretty sure it will far more substantial.

    Still I’m sure mass unemployment will be a price worth paying, the xenophobic British government, will ignore the calls for sanity, and rejoice in their splendid isolation.

    • Habbabkuk

      It is erroneous to equate a UNITED Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland which in not a member of the EU with a spendidly isolationist UNITED Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland.

      The UNITED Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland will continue to participate fully and actively in any number of fields governed, to q greater or lesser extent, by international and multilateral cooperation. As you raise the spectre of unemployment and therefore economic activity, that includes the WTO and the OECD; furthermore, the UNITED Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland will no doubt forge trading arrangements with many economically significant third countries.

      The phrase splendid (or even miserable) isolation is better reserved for countries like North Korea and the like.

      • Republicofscotland

        ” to q greater or lesser extent, ”

        __________

        Habb.

        A very, very much lesser extent, I’d say, even Nobel prize winner, 2016 for (chemistry), Sir Fraser Stoddart, mentions that Brexit will see UK scientist doctors etc, infact just about every important field, miss out, not only on funding but in practical terms, for all intensive purposes, they’ll be out the loop.

        Splendid Isolation indeed.

        I wonder are thete no Sudetenlands kicking about? That the British government could claim, to placate their Imperial ambitions (they can have Rockall) and hopefully snap them out of this ugly madness.

    • Alan

      “Scotland alone will lose up to 80,000 jobs.”

      That isn’t what those Scottish fishermen are telling us. They are rejoicing at the prospect of getting their workplaces (The Ocean) back from EU control, aren’t they? But they are only “working class peasants” that the elites love to ignore, or dismiss as “ignorant plebs”, eh?

      https://www.rt.com/uk/353569-scotland-fishermen-brexit-sturgeon/

      “Fishermen in Scotland have come out in support of Brexit, predicting a “whole world of new possibilities” for the local industry when Britain leaves the European Union. “

      • Republicofscotland

        “That isn’t what those Scottish fishermen are telling us. They are rejoicing at the prospect of getting their workplaces ”

        ___________

        Alan.

        The EU Fisheries policy, saved the Scottish fishing industry from extinction, though the greedy fishermen would never admit to it.

        Fishermen in Scotland were fishing out cod stocks in Scottish waters, taking out loans to buy bigger and bigger fishing vessels, that had to run 24/7 to meet the banks payments. The fish stock were at a critical stage, when the EU stepped in, and reduced quotas drastically.

        The disgruntled fishermen were given grants by the EU, to scrap their boats, but in some cases, the grants didn’t cover the costs of the bank loans. If Scotland remains outside the EU for any length of time, the fisherman may fish certain stocks in the North sea into extinction.

        But I doubt you knew any of this Alan, how could you, you rarely pay attention.

        • Alan

          I remember one night when I was in Scotland, tired and hungry, and I walked into a chippy and forgetting where I was, asked for “Cod and Chips”.

          “You’ll have Hake!” was the reply.

          And to this day, I have never seen a Scottish chippy selling cod. Come to think about it, the chips are usually pretty rough too. I used to make a point of always buying food at Chinese takeaways while in Scotland.

          • Alan

            I mean to say, this happy multicultural Scotland that you and Craig talk about does’na really exist does it? I bet next morning she was telling her friends “Some sassenach came inta ma shop last neet demanding cod if yer please. Well I told the sassenach ye’ll be having hake and do yer ken he dared to pay with sassenacch money, if yer please.”

            But by the time she got up next morning, I was in the Outer Hebrides, where they actually don’t buy your BS

            Dream on RoS! Dream on Craig!

    • Geoffrey

      Presumably on the basis that that in the future a Scotsman will now be expected to wipe his own bottom ?

  • Republicofscotland

    As Theresa May goes about carving out her meritocracy in the dis-United Kingdom with her Grammer schools, cadet schools, and entitlements to those who are not Johnny Foreigner. One has to say that the xenophobic British governments view of the future, is a ugly parochial one.

    The British government have brought nothing but fear and uncertainty for hundreds of thousands of people on these shores, as those people cannot be sure of where their futures lie. Businesses will be obliged to keep reoprts on how many non Brits work for them, and foreign doctors will be replaced by British ones when trained up. One could cast there minds back to a time, when certain sections of society were rounded up and ejected, in a ugly xenophobic fashion.

    Ironically the oppressed in that event, are now the oppressors.

    Does Scotland want to be in a union, with a British government that, appears to be promoting the early stages of a mild form of fascism.

    We all know where that road leads to.

    • michael norton

      If Scotland does not want to be In Saint Theresa’s New World and really no longer wishes to be part of the United Kingdom,
      you know your answer.
      HAVE ANOTHER ONCE IN A LIFETIME REFERENDUM.

  • Trowbridge H. Ford

    Anyone who takes lightly militarizing everything should look at where the USA is now, a military society where the Pentagon can do whatever it wants about even leaking of important secrets, like how Metrojet Flight 9268 was shot down over the Sinai a year ago.

    • Alan

      “Anyone who takes lightly militarizing everything should look at where the USA is now”

      A shithole with millions living in either tents or caravans (trailers to you).

  • Republicofscotland

    In the furore of the British governments xenophobic stance, it has gone reasonably unnoticed that Frau May, praised Defence secretary Michael Fallon’s announcement that, the dis-United Kingdom would be opting out of the European Convention of Human Rights (ECHR).

    This means that British soldiers will be free of constraints on the battlefield, with a view that their actions, cannot be challenged by human rights lawyers.

    It appears that the British government are moving in a direction, of not taking responsibility for their troops actions. We already have secretive courts, where people can be locked up for long periods, without being charged.

    The British government are displaying ugly xenophobic nationalism, no doubt Frau May will get on well with Hungary’s Victor Orban.

        • Old Mark

          While he pleasures himself with his other hand no doubt, with a photo of the PM in her best leopard skin heels close by to really get the juices going.

          • Alan

            Do you reckon those cute shoes she wore this week might be what has driven him into a temper, frothing at what he wants but is never going to get?

  • David

    Unless all the name calling stops we can have no sensible discussion on anything at all. If your anti immigration it doesn’t make you racist, and shouting that epitaph at the top of your voice doesn’t solve the problem.

    There IS an issue with immigration and its one that as a nation we need to discuss, its one of the many issues we need to discuss as a nation if we are to move forward. We cannot change the EU that is a simple fact, we have been trying for a long time. As a supporter of democracy its impossible for me to see this country remain in an organisation that is one of the least democratic in the world. Westminster might not be perfect, but neither is the Scottish system. Scotland leaving the UK will decimate Scotland and do very little to the UK. Its not something a sensible person should be perusing right now. Scotland needs to create its own industries beyond oil and ship building. Oil is screwed and will remain so for many years to come, leave the UK and Scotland’s shipyards are empty as well.

    Leaving the EU will hurt in the short term, not because it has too, but because the EU mandarins must make an example of people who have voted to return powers to the people. The greatest racism we are about to see will come from the EU commissioners. In the medium term the UK economy will move to areas it does very well in and continue to prosper. Lets not forget that doom and gloom that EVERY organisation told us we would suffer on day1 of voting to leave, not only has it not happened the exact opposite has happened. A weak pound is of no consequence at the moment and is in fact giving some good growth in UK manufacturing…. for a change !

    So far the exit vote has been all good, there will be some pain in the near future and people will lose their jobs, possibly including me, but democracy trumps employment, self determination trumps employment, in fact everything trumps employment, something the remainers just haven’t got their pretty heads around yet.

  • Sharp Ears

    Treeza thought she was so funny yesterday characterizing Labour as the nasty party.

    She got it wrong. It’s the anti immigration UKippers who resorted to fisticuffs in Strasbourg today. Mr Hookem, aptly named, comes from Hull and presumably from the same boxing club as Prescott. laid out Mr Woolfe. Allegedly as it says here. There was either a fight or there wasn’t. Why else did Woolfe get a head injury.

    That’s the end of UKIP.

    Steven Woolfe: Fellow Ukip MEP Mike Hookem allegedly involved in fight before collapse
    Leadership favourite later rushed to hospital with a head injury
    http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/steven-woolfe-latest-fight-mike-hookem-mep-ukip-a7348441.html

    • michael norton

      I can’t believe my own eyes, I just read a post about UKIP MEP’S fighting in the EU Parliament, with Wolfie being sent for an MRI brain scan, it linked to an article in the Independent, I read the article, clicked back to this blog, and the post had vanished?
      What is with all the censorship, have we shifted to North Korea?

      • michael norton

        UKIP leadership hopeful Steven Woolfe says he is recovering in hospital after a reported fight at a meeting of the party’s MEPs.

        The party released a statement from Mr Woolfe from his Strasbourg hospital bed saying he was sitting up having undergone a precautionary brain scan.

        UKIP sources said “punches were exchanged” during the row at a party meeting and Mr Woolfe banged his head.

        He was taken to hospital two hours later after collapsing, sources said.
        from BBC

        Not so long ago it was Scottish M.P.’s fighting in the bar in Parliament, quite common in The Ukraine, I’m told.

        • Old Mark

          Michael

          The evening news bulletins are milking this incident for all it worth, as it apparently shows the world what a bunch of knuckle draggers UKIP MEPs are- this despite the fact that no criminal charges have been bought against either Mr Woolfe or the other,unnamed MEP involved in this incident. It also appears to be the case that the most serious injury sustained by Mr Woolfe was the result of his having a seizure some 2 hours after the altercation- which suggests factors other than the ‘altercation’ may be inplicated in his current condition.

          Strangely enough, I don’t recall the BBC making similar sweeping generalisations about Blairite Labour MPs being prone to violent outbursts when one of them a few years back went on the rampage in a House of Commons bar-

          http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-17150381

          • Why be Ordinary

            Criminal charges would only be brought if either party filed a complaint (“porter plainte”)

        • michael norton

          ‘S-300, S-400 air defenses in place’: Russian MoD warns US-led coalition not to strike Syrian army
          https://www.rt.com/news/361800-russia-syria-usa-aistrikes/
          Russia’s Defense Ministry has cautioned the US-led coalition of carrying out airstrikes on Syrian army positions, adding in Syria there are numerous S-300 and S-400 air defense systems up and running.

          Russia currently has S-400 and S-300 air-defense systems deployed to protect its troops stationed at the Tartus naval supply base and the Khmeimim airbase. The radius of the weapons reach may be “a surprise” to all unidentified flying objects, Russian Defense Ministry spokesperson General Igor Konashenkov said.
          According to the Russian Defense Ministry, any airstrike or missile hitting targets in territory controlled by the Syrian government would put Russian personnel in danger.

          The defense official said that members of the Russian Reconciliation Center in Syria are working “on the ground” delivering aid and communicating with a large number of communities in Syria.

          “Therefore, any missile or air strikes on the territory controlled by the Syrian government will create a clear threat to Russian servicemen.”

          “Russian air defense system crews are unlikely to have time to determine in a ‘straight line’ the exact flight paths of missiles and then who the warheads belong to. And all the illusions of amateurs about the existence of ‘invisible’ jets will face a disappointing reality,” Konashenkov added. He also noted that Syria itself has S-200 as well as BUK systems, and their technical capabilities have been updated over the past year.

          The Russian Defense Ministry’s statement came in response to what it called “leaks” in the Western media alleging that Washington is considering launching airstrikes against Syrian government forces.

          “Of particular concern is information that the initiators of such provocations are representatives of the CIA and the Pentagon, who in September reported to the [US] President on the alleged controllability of ‘opposition’ fighters, but today are lobbying for ‘kinetic’ scenarios in Syria,” he said.

          He cautioned Washington to conduct a “thorough calculation of the possible consequences of such plans.”

          US-led coalition jets bombed positions of the Syrian government forces on September 17, resulting in the deaths of 83 servicemen. Washington said the airstrike was a mistake, however Damascus claimed the incident was a “blatant aggression.”

          The relocation of the S-300 system in order to protect Russian ships and the naval base in Syria was confirmed by Russian defense officials on October 4. Konashenkov assured that the S-300 is a “purely defensive system and poses no threat.” Russia also has S-400 missile defense systems at Khmeimim base that were placed there after Turkey downed a Russian SU-24 jet in November of 2015.

          Well that seems rather clear.

    • lysias

      Billmon cites poll. Question: Do you think President Obama ordered the U.S. military to engineer a hurricane for the sole purpose of destroying Donald Trump’s Mar-a-Lago estate? Results: Yes 45%; No 35%; It’s possible but I’d need to see more evidence 20%.

      I wonder if the respondents were pulling the pollster’s leg.

      • Trowbridge H. Ford

        Didn’t see your one word nonsense about what is going on.

        It is a modification of what the Pentagon planned to make sure that Scotland didn’t vote for independence.

        This time only the shit was scared out of the US states in the southwest, especially Florida, to make sure they voted Democratic.

        It’s called tailor-made weather modification.

    • Trowbridge H. Ford

      Weather modification, making hurricanes and tsenamis, has become an important tool in mani[ulaying elections, and little wonder that the States in the US southeast, especially Florida, are being hit with Hurricane Matthew bow.

  • Loony

    …and so it is stated that “There is no doubt that the racist mood in England is real and there is no doubt that it is racist”

    Who are these people that are contributing to the mood of racism? Could it be the 2.6 million Muslims, or the 800,000 Hindus or the 6 million of Irish extraction, or the 200,000 Romanians and Bulgarians, or the 800,000 Poles or the 100,000 Spaniards.If not them then who? Maybe the rotting indigenous peoples. But if it is the bigoted, uneducated, aggressive and stupid indigenous people then why do all these other people continue, at a rate of over 300,000 per year, to leave their homelands to settle in a land inhabited by unwelcoming racists? Are they stupid? Is stupidity a more attractive feature than racism?

    There are roughly 800,000 English people living in Spain. If they are all so racist why have they gone to a land full of Hispanics? Why are they not out on the streets of Spain agitating for racist policies?

    Or could it be that the assertion is simply not true and is the product of inane thinking.

  • bevin

    Michael Norton, have you seen Asia times on line? The former Indian diplomat Badrakhumar is a regular contributor. I am sure that these articles will interest you:
    http://www.atimes.com/syria-may-turn-obamas-defining-legacy/
    http://www.atimes.com/us-pivot-to-asia-is-sinking-beneath-pacific-waves/

    Essentially he makes the point that the US Empire has over reached in Syria and that, if it does not succeed in replacing the government with its own jihadist puppets, it will begin its steady collapse.
    British politicians should wake up to the reality which is that they gain nothing and risk everything by acting as the USA’s poodle.

  • philw

    An independent Scotland will need to have immigration policies. Who gets to decide them?

    Anyone who concerns themselves with the question is automatically a racist in Craig’s eyes. So Craig, and many on the Left, ignore the question. They wouldn’t sully themselves with it.

    The Tories have targets for the level of net migration. These have been exceeded for years. Are they the right levels? Who knows? Where is the informed discussion? Some of the current Tory proposals are indeed deeply disturbing. Others, such as training enough Health professionals to staff the NHS without trawling round to steal staff from developing countries who desperately need them, should be welcomed by everyone as just common sense.

    We on the Left have to address these issues. We need informed debate. Otherwise the field is just left to the bigots and the hysterical. And there are many people who are not opposed to immigration, but feel the level is currently too high. People who are not racists, but end up voting for UKIP as they feel the Left is not listening to their concerns.

    • Old Mark

      philW-

      It makes a pleasant change to read sensible comments about immigration, and implicit criticism of Craig’s rose tinted views about how Scotland will handle these things so much better once it is independent, from a declared person of the Left.

      As I explained on page 1 of the comments thread, when sparring with the comical Macky, one of the reasons that Sturgeon and her acolytes have such rose tinted opinions about how Scotland will benefit economically, and be enriched culturally, by further immigration, is the fact that far less of it has actually happened up there when compered to, for instance, South London, from where I’m writing this.

      To explain to someone in a lilywhite area of Scotland how mass immigration actually impacts on everyday life is quite difficult, indeed, any attempt to enlighten such a person via anecdotage is likely to be dismissed as ‘racist’. However humour helps, and this now dormant blogger, who lives in my neck of the woods, does it quite well- his two ‘ More Plain Tales from the Multiculture’ in this blog excerpt should be required reading for ScotNats thinking that importing tens of thousands more immigrants is well, you know, always a good thing-

      http://dogwash48.blogspot.co.uk/2008_06_01_archive.html

      • philw

        Sorry Old Mark, I think you’re reading stuff in to what I say.

        I’m not arguing for any particular immigration policy. If Scotland want an ‘open door’ policy, then good luck to them. I am simply arguing that it needs discussion. Or does Craig think it should be settled by a ‘liberal elite’ behind closed doors?

        I suspect, however, that even Craig would run a mile from the effects of a real open door. I think Craig, and many on the Left, sit safely ensconced behind barriers to immigration set by the Tories, and snipe at them. This is dishonest.

        I agree with Craig that immigration is wrongly blamed for many social ills – such as lack of affordable housing, and underfunded education and health – and this needs clearly pointing out. But the Labour Party needs a clear strategy for immigration, and to show that they take the issue seriously, and not dismiss everyone with concerns as racist.

        In my book Labour should (amongst many things):
        welcome the Tory proposal to train more health professionals – and see that its stuck to.
        promise to crack down on firms exploiting immigrant labour to lower pay and conditions
        investigate where immigration is causing problems, and find appropriate solutions

        As for numbers, and mix between different categories of immigrant, I dont see a lot wrong at present (except we should take more refugees). But I admit I dont know what the effects are, and think those concerned should be listened to.

        I suspect Craig and I would not, in the end, differ too much about immigration levels, but I would like him to state his position and be open to discussion.

        • Old Mark

          In my book Labour should (amongst many things):
          welcome the Tory proposal to train more health professionals – and see that its stuck to.
          promise to crack down on firms exploiting immigrant labour to lower pay and conditions
          investigate where immigration is causing problems, and find appropriate solutions

          Phil- I fully agree with these comments of yours about how Labour should respond to the Tories on the immigration question

          • Ba'al Zevul

            Pure cynical self-interest should do the trick for the NuLabour Inc LP crowd, anyway. They’ll be as unelectable as they claim Corbyn is if the disenchanted voters who abandoned Labour for UKIP last time stay there and attract more. If the objective is simply to get power, they’re on a hiding to nothing if they keep pushing that particular PC line. Corbyn’s got more sense than to commit himself, but the Blairites are committed.

      • Macky

        Let’s see where the comedy really lies;

        You started by addressing Craig in a long post in which you stated “the Glasgow Pakistani community, has not behaved as scandalously as it’s fellow countrymen have in Rotherham, Oldham, Telford et al.”

        When DGP took exception to the underlying racism in your comments by replying that there also are white pimps and white sexual abusers, you responded with, “but statistically they are dwarfed by the number of Pakistani, Bangladeshi, Middle Eastern & Somali males engaged in such practices”, a mass stereotyping racist statement.

        So I looked-up facts about your general “such practices” and found that 90% of UK child sexual abuse is committed by family members; outside of family, 70% is committed by Boyfriend/Girlfriend.

        You replied that you were specifically referring to “the sexual predation of vulnerable young girls out on the streets”, so I pointed out even this is not true by highlighting the notorious Westminster & BBC/Celebrity pedophile sex rings.

        You then accused me of indulging in diversion (!), so I asked you to provide the statistics that you based your “statistically they are dwarfed by the number of Pakistani, Bangladeshi, Middle Eastern & Somali males”, and your first reply was to called me a “conspiracy theorist” (!) while at the same time claiming that the Government was deliberately withholding such statistics (!!)

        When I pulled you up on this ironic contradiction, you eventually linked to Government statistics, which shown that the Asian community, (being the number one target community of your comments about Glasgow Pakistani/Rotherham/Oldham, etc), statistically do not “dwarf” other ethnicity iro child abuse in the UK, quite the opposite in fact. You did realised this of course, so in addition to providing this link, you added a couple of bizarre conspiracy theorist comments in the form of rhetorical questions, suggesting that the Government was still keeping certain facts hidden !

        In light of your inability to justify your “statistically they are dwarfed by the number of Pakistani, Bangladeshi, Middle Eastern & Somali males engaged in such practices”, and as all these groups are all Muslim communities, I could/can only conclude that your real issue is to do with Islam.

        When I put this to you, you bizarrely accused me for showing no compassion to some tragic cases of grooming & sexual abuse (!), and you finally ended up with the mind-numblingly obvious fact about your comparison between Scotland & England, that all ethnic groups have criminals members, and that the larger the community, the larger the number of criminals !!

        • Old Mark

          Macky- here is what I actually wrote about the official stats, and the link to them, that we discussed yesterday- for the benefit of those readers who may be tempted to accept your ‘sin’ on what I wrote at face value-

          Now listen very carefully, and don’t move your lips as you try to read this- statistics DO exist on the ethnicity of ALL sex offenders- which of course includes intra familiar sex offences, and sex offences between parties who were hitherto in ‘long term relationships’. I certainly don’t claim that, for these types of sex offences, there is any particular pattern in terms of the ethnicity of such offenders; however, even allowing for this, the official stats, such as they are, DO show an over representation of ‘black’ and ‘asian’ convicts in the sexual offences category-

          http://raedwald.blogspot.co.uk/2016/01/uk-govt-stats-on-sexual-offences-by.html

          Now ask yourself a few questions-
          1. Given this raw data on all sexual offences, what do you think a more detailed breakdown would reveal about a particular type of sexual offence- say, one perpetrated on females under the age of 18 who first encountered their assailant in a public place ?
          2. However, a statistical breakdown of offences in the category described above appears not to exist in government documents put in the public domain. Why is this so ?

          ‘You replied that you were specifically referring to “the sexual predation of vulnerable young girls out on the streets”, so I pointed out even this is not true by highlighting the notorious Westminster & BBC/Celebrity pedophile sex rings.’

          Wrong again Macky-
          1.The alleged victims of celebrity abuse weren’t picked up off the streets- they allegedly met their abusers on BBC premises or, in the case of St Cliff, at his concerts. In any case, why do you keep bringing these cases up when so many have been dismissed for lack of evidence or (in the case of DLT) amount to no more that copping a feel- hardly the same thing as being passed around to your taxi driver mates, and being repeatedly raped ?
          2. The Westminster Paedo allegations concern young BOYS not girls- so once again you are showing your habitual lack of comprehension skills, and comparing apples and oranges.

        • Old Mark

          you finally ended up with the mind-numblingly obvious fact about your comparison between Scotland & England, that all ethnic groups have criminals members, and that the larger the community, the larger the number of criminals !!

          Macky- in addition to your evident lack of English comprehension skills, you also appear to be unable to grasp the most basic of statistical concepts- hence the gibberish you’ve extruded in the bit I’ve excerpted above.

    • philw

      Sigh – hijacked again.

      Old Mark and Macky – cant you go and quarrel somewhere else?

      • Macky

        LOL ! Can’t you keep your pretentious delusions to yourself ?

        How rude to interrupt my unmasking of Old Mark ! 😀

  • Paul Barbara

    I know I’m on thin ice here, with the ‘Official Secret Act’ and so on, but as I know I can trust explicitly the readers and commentors on this Forum not to shop me to MI5, Special Branch or ‘Allied’ agencies, here we go: there MAY have been a ‘Secret’ approach to Elbit Systems by HMG re contracts for a ‘Separation Barrier’ had Scotland’s Referendum gone differently, but a rumor has it that the consultation was called off when HMG were assured the vote was ‘under control’. Please don’t quote me on this….
    Also, on another level: ‘Contractor for Israel’s apartheid wall wins US border contract’:
    https://electronicintifada.net/blogs/jimmy-johnson/contractor-israels-apartheid-wall-wins-us-border-contract

    As Chuck Berry used to sing: ‘It only goes to show you never can tell’: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RoDPPgWbfXY

    • michael norton

      We can’t forget Blairite Properganda
      as he claims he is returning from the undead to breathe life again into New Labour.

  • michael norton

    The UKIP MEP involved in an altercation with Steven Woolfe has said he “categorically did not” throw a punch at his colleague.

    Mike Hookem acknowledged he and his colleague had a “scuffle” in the European Parliament but insisted that he did not hit him.

    “I am innocent,” he told the BBC. “I never threw a punch. I never assaulted him. I will stand my corner.”

    UKIP’s Steven Woolfe will be kept in hospital for a further 48 hours.

    Thursday’s incident is being investigated by UKIP and the European Parliament.

    Mr Woolfe, a frontrunner to be the next leader of the UKIP, has said he is happy to “extend the hand of friendship” to his colleague.

    There have been varying descriptions of what happened during what UKIP called an “altercation” and Mr Hookem told BBC Radio Humberside only he and Mr Woolfe knew precisely what went on.

    Mr Hookem said he was “shocked” by the MEP’s hospitalisation in the hours following the incident.

    But he insisted the incident had been “blown out of all proportion” and Mr Woolfe’s “injuries did not come from him” – adding that he was now prepared “to shake Mr Woolfe’s hand”.

    Mr Woolfe is to remain under observation for a further 48 hours in Strasbourg “as a precaution”.

    BBC

    I suspect Woolfe has been rather lucky, he obviously has a pre-existing, health issue.
    Out walking on the moors, a very different outcome.

  • michael norton

    Some are suggesting that a speech given by the President of the Peoples Socialists Republic of France
    caused the pound to crash.
    He is the least popular French President, ever, Francois is also making himself loathed in the United Kingdom.

    French President Francois Hollande has insisted the EU must take a firm line with the UK after Theresa May signalled she backed a so-called “hard Brexit”.

    Mr Hollande said Britain wanted to leave the bloc “but doesn’t want to pay”, which he argued was “not possible”.

    His comments come after the Prime Minister told party activists she wanted British firms to have “the maximum freedom to trade with and operate within the single market”, but not at the expense of allowing free movement or accepting the jurisdiction of the European Court of Justice.

  • Trowbridge H. Ford

    Don’t you love the brain-dead Anglo-Americans comparing what the States are experiencing from Hurricane Matthew with what Haiti regularly suffers from heated up tropical storms.

    This time over 500 Haitians were murdered, and even Cuba was spared this time. 700 American dependents at Gitmo were transferred back to the States to make sure nothing happened to them. .

    • husq

      >Don’t you love the brain-dead Anglo-Americans comparing what the States are experiencing from Hurricane Matthew with what Haiti regularly suffers from heated up tropical storms.<

      RWW News: Barton Says God Will Strike U.S. With Weather Disasters For Not Supporting Israel!

      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UOj9UxMX2rQ

      • Trowbridge H. Ford

        The Alaska facility has 180 towers which create a lens through electrical bolts from the ground in the ionosphere which can focus the sun’s power on whatever territory it can reach, like Hurricane Rita which you linked.

        Now you can read about the patents that Prof. Bernard J. Eastland has on the weather modification system, and has been developed by Arco and General Dynamics. While it is officially now under the control of the University of Alaska, it is still operated by the same mad scientists who will do any experiment Washington suggests, and is still a military site under the strictest security.

        The death tool in the Haitian proving ground is now over 800 with Uncle Sam just engaging in another military exercise on respone, and a woman in the States died from a stroke while dealing with Matthew.

        The shit hole is getting bigger by the day.

        • Paul Barbara

          HAARP facility in Alaska is supposedly shut down – presumably because they have a better way of doing it. But it has sweet FA about the ‘sun’s power’, unless you are referring to the sun being the source of all physical power on earth.
          The HAARP facility, and anything else which has superseded it, is based on focused microwaves or radio waves that use the Chemtrail-spread metallic particles to effect the weather, and earthquake activity.
          You are either completely unaware, or complicit: I go for the latter.
          There are some folks on this Blog that know pretty much what is going on. Re the HAARP stuff, just search, and also go to ‘Geoengineering Watch’.

  • Sharp Ears

    Most cheering news of the day,

    HMRC investigates BBC presenters over tax avoidance allegations
    Investigations centre on claims 100 BBC presenters and other broadcasters’ stars falsely declared themselves self-employed
    http://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2016/oct/07/hmrc-investigates-bbc-presenters-over-tax-avoidance-allegations

    Some of the names are in the public domain and others easily found by consulting Companies House as most of them have set up companies to receive their inflated salaries, Taxed at 20% Corporation tax rather than the 40% higher rate of tax on PAYE rate. (40% on annual earnings from £31,866 to £150,000 and 45% above that),. There are also implications on the amount of NI paid.

  • michael norton

    BREXIT MEANS BREXIT the people have spoken

    Ukip comfortably steal Old Labour seat in by-election despite Steven Woolfe altercation
    UKIP’S troubles in Strasbourg, where Steven Woolfe was involved in an altercation, appeared to have little impact at the ballot box as the party won a council by-election with almost 50 per cent of the vote yesterday.
    http://www.express.co.uk/news/politics/718632/Ukip-Hartlepool-by-election-Tim-Fleming-Strassborg-Steven-Woolfe-collapse

    Labour are in the dustbin, I doubt promoting Abbott will help.

  • michael norton

    Ah, The Donald has been caught being a trifle crude, bit like Bill Clinton?

    Britain will be offered a free trade deal before the rest of the European Union if the Republicans win the US presidential election,
    Donald Trump’s trade adviser has said.
    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-37594928

    So not “Back of the Queue”

      • michael norton

        I would be VERY keen to hear the view of the Abbott, newly raised to the Old Labour role of Shadow Home Secretary,
        after all if she can’t have a view on women shooting a black man in her own constituency…
        Six women have been arrested after a man was found with a gunshot wound in a London high street.

        The man, aged in his 20s, is fighting for life in hospital after being shot in the north London borough of Haringey at about 11pm last night.

        • michael norton

          I may have got it wrong,
          perhaps David Lammy is the correct M.P. for this area of North London?

    • michael norton

      A man is fighting for life in hospital after being shot in north London.

      Six women have been arrested after police found the man, aged in his 20s, with a gunshot wound in Haringey.

      Metropolitan Police officers taped off Hornsey High Street at the junction with New River Avenue following the incident at 11pm last night.

      Dramatic footage showed police vans and ambulances parked up in the road as officers patrolled the residential street.

      All six women are currently being held at a north London police station.

      A Met Police spokesman said: “Cordons remain in place at the scene.

      “Detectives from the Trident and Area Crime Command are investigating.

      “Enquiries into the circumstances continue.”
      Evening Standard ( not on BBC)

  • BrianPowell

    In Scotland there is no real analysis from the press and the general population can’t see anything happening. I believe there would need to be uniformed squads checking immigrants in the streets before people would understand , and for many they would just thinking, ‘at least it’s not me’ , and scurry off.

    • michael norton

      Terror happening at this moment in Chemnitz
      One wearer of suicide belt shot dead.

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