Why is Melanie Phillips Mainstream Acceptable? 802

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I have often pointed to Melanie Phillips to illustrate the fact that while left wing radical thought is excluded from mainstream media, you can be as completely mad, raving off the wall right wing as you wish, and yet still get invited onto every BBC panel or discussion series in existence. She still justifies the Iraq War. She thought Saddam did indeed have those WMDs and they were hidden in secret underground chambers underneath the Euphrates.

Less harmlessly, Phillips employs hate speech and was praised by Anders Breivik. Sweeping anti-Muslim Phrases such as “the Islamic enemies of civilisation” come easily to her. I was appalled by this particular example of Phillips’ hate speech four years ago. You can see how Breivik found her inspiring:

Romney lost because, like Britain’s Conservative Party, the Republicans just don’t understand that America and the west are being consumed by a culture war. In their cowardice and moral confusion, they all attempt to appease the enemies within. And from without, the Islamic enemies of civilisation stand poised to occupy the void.
With the re-election of Obama, America now threatens to lead the west into a terrifying darkness.

I called this out at the time as incitement to religious hatred. Interestingly enough it has now disappeared from Phillips’ own website: http://melaniephillips.com/america-goes-into-the-darkness. But you can’t hide your disgrace on the internet.

Today Phillips spreads the hatred still wider by telling us the Scots and the Irish are not real nations. Only Britain is an authentic nation (behind the Times paywall). Scottish nationalism, she states, is based purely on romance and a hatred of the English. As for Ireland:

The truth is that a large majority of the states in the world achieved independence after 1922. Even if you pretend an Irish nation did not exist until 1922, that still makes it one of the world’s older states. In fact of course Ireland, like most other states, re-emerged into independence following colonial dominance. Nationality is a human construct, not a fact of physics or geography – there never was a state before colonialism with the precise boundaries of India or Nigeria or almost any post-colonial state you can name. But there were autonomous peoples. And very few would describe them as not a nation now.

Even old states change their boundaries from time to time. Norman Davies has a beautiful phrase about Poland emerging again and again into statehood through the mists of history, but never in the same place twice. Yet despite radical boundary changes and having had political autonomy for only 50 of the last 250 years, nobody doubts Poland is a nation state. Nobody doubts Ireland is a nation state either, except Mad Mel. As for Scotland, not only was it a full nation state for hundreds of years until it entered into a voluntary union, it is possible to trace distinct political and cultural expressions of popular nationhood.

Phillips’ hate-filled opinions would be her own affair, were she not given such powerful platforms from which to expound them. I return to where I started. Phillips is evidence you cannot be too right wing for a media platform in the UK, even if you propound actual religious hate. By comparison, nobody as left wing as Phillips is right would ever be given airtime on the BBC or a column in The Times.

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802 thoughts on “Why is Melanie Phillips Mainstream Acceptable?”

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  • Dave

    You can tell “hate crime” legislation is extremist by its very name! That is if it was at all equitable there would be a range of offences such as “not very friendly”, “nasty” and “very nasty” crime! But under the legislation even mild criticism, real or imagined, can be perceived by anyone for whatever reason to be “hate crime” and reported to the police who are required at a bare minimum to log it as an “non-actionable hate incident”. And a proscribed motive, which is entirely subjective and impossible to prove carries on conviction up to a 2 years jail sentence.

    • lysias

      The plutocrats have lost confidence. They recognize that they are losing the argument. They think that they can only maintain their rule by force.

      • bevin

        Exactly. With the caveat that by ‘force’ is included the sophisticated employment of every sort of inducement which is made possible by the Panopticon-plus surveillance system. It is in this that the rulers put their faith to the extent that, in a time of increasing social crisis, declining living standards and widespread impoverishment-of an extent unknown since the ’30s, they are actually cutting into the welfare state and making the tax system even more regressive.
        The state has lost its legitimacy (heaven has withdrawn its mandate).
        William Cobbett put it thus, like many of his observations it is of universal application:
        “Society ought not to exist, if not for the benefit of the whole. It is and must be against the law of nature, if it exist for the benefit of the few… I say then, distinctly, a society in which the common labourer, with common health and strength and with economy and sobriety and industry, and good morals and good manners cannot secure a sufficiency ..is a society which ought not to exist, a society contrary to the law of nature; a society whose compact is dissolved..”

        • Ben

          Exactly. What we need is someone who has no regard for law when it collides with self interest. Someone who can liberate us from the frying pan of Deep Statism and place us in the fire of tyranny.

          HUZZZZAAAHHHH…

          GOD BLESS ST DONALDUS.

          • bevin

            What you need and might be getting, is an awakened population which, having rejected the pledges of continuity with more wars thrown in, will keep a critical eye on the current government, elected by default. And there is plenty that can be done to prevent Trump’s oligarchs from plundering further. It all begins by throwing off the leadership of the democrats and Union bosses which has being trading on the support of the working people for decades.
            St Donaldus won’t help, neither will the congregation of saints surrounding the Clintons.

        • RobG

          bevin, the masses might be boiling frogs in the main, but don’t try to intellectualise totalitarianism.

          This is now, 2017, and we have almost full-blown police states in our societies.

          The vast majority of people just want to live an unencumbered life and maybe raise some children; this follows worldwide.

          Against this we have a complete bunch of criminal psychopaths who want endless war, etc. They maintain this madness via the biggest propaganda machine in history.

          Who are you hating now, folks?

          But most folks do see through the lies and bullshit.

          I’m not going to say anything further than that, because I want to see the criminal psychos hang.

          • bevin

            You do yourself little credit by intemperate posts like this one accusing me of ‘intellectualising totalitarianism’ by quoting the words of the greatest spokesman of the working people and most persistent opponent of tyranny that England ever produced.
            If you think about it, apart from the rubbish attributing capitalism to psychologically disturbed individuals, there is not much separating what you say and many of the other radicals commenting here say. The fact that you feel obliged to insult anyone who refuses to indulge in the faux jacobinism that seems to give you such pleasure is something that you might want to think about.

      • Bob Apposite

        I mean, when they kill Indian nationals and tell them “get out of the country”.
        When they shoot up a Black Church.
        When they try to assassinate Gabrielle Giffords.
        When they shoot up/burn Mosques.
        When they attack women won’t sleep with them and exercise their autonomy…

        Are these “hate crimes” not ACTUALLY terrorism and terrorist attacks?

    • JOML

      Or Scotland’s past, over the last 300 years?
      “Deprive the people of their national consciousness, treat them as a tribe and not a nation, dilute their national pride, do not teach their history, propagate their language as inferior, imply they have a cultural void, emphasise their customs are primitive, and dismiss independence as a barbaric anomaly.”
      Quote from Nazi Reinhard Heydrich on the Germanisation of Czechoslovakia.

      • Ben

        Thanks for mercifully returning us to the indefatigeable, relentless and ever present topic of SCOTLAND..lol.

        No ethnocentrism ever had a greater advocate..

      • giyane

        We seem to have got to the stage that anyone who has legitimacy to expose government corruption, like Jo Cox and this Bristol G.P who has just disappeared, is snuffed out. The government would like comment such as CM blog to be erased, and Mrs May and Lady Snooty-Parker-Jones from MI5, long ago declared their intention to eliminate wrong-think but realised it wasn’t very British to be seen to be doing so.

        RobG seems to have succumbed to cheap plonk, by asserting that Trump might possibly have some merit, but Mrs May …. Well the thing about Mrs Thatcher was that she fought ardently against common sense all the time, while Mrs May is willing to privatise the NHS under the fog of Brexit while reading out some failed hack’s copy with all that fluffy shit about a more equitable society.

        The NHS is such a mess that …..WE’ll have to privatise it.
        UK Education is so far behind its competitors that… WE’ll have to cream off the best
        Trident is so unreliable that… WE buy the same rubbish model as before and pocket the change. It would cost too much to re-design it.

        Mrs May is like a British bulldog that has had centuries of genetic breeding and you ask the vet if there’s anything you can do to it , like mechanical steel jaw constraints, to stop it chewing off your toddler’s head. Tory trash. What are we ever going to do with the British people after they were prevented from colonising the world. Something was bound to go wrong. No wonder we have Muslims and Trans.

        • Zed

          “Mrs May is like a British bulldog that has had centuries of genetic breeding ”

          Surely you mean inbreeding?

        • K Crosby

          RobG seems to have succumbed to cheap plonk, by asserting that Trump might possibly have some merit

          Trump isn’t that bloody bastard Clinton (both). QED

      • Ba'al Zevul

        But Scptland hasn’t been ‘Germanised’, has it? Gaelic is no longer suppressed, but encouraged, and has been for some decades; the main problem with it being that it’s not much use to anyone outside the Gaeltacht. National consciousness and national pride seem rather to have ballooned since the apathy with which the SNP was received post-war. Culture? Well, there I have to concede that the culture of the UK as a whole is very heavily derivative of Germanic cultures (as well as their common Norman heritage), but the argument that Scotland’s Germanic culture is inferior to England’s Germanic culture is one I haven’t heard in England. For the majority of English, Scotland is a nebulous grey fuzz somewhere north of Oop North.

        Even Burns came to realise the advantages of union eventually, although I don’t think this song is in the nationalist canon:

        The Dumfries Volunteers

        DOES haughty Gaul invasion threat,
        Then let the louns bewaure, Sir,
        There’s WOODEN WALLS upon our seas,
        And VOLUNTEERS on shore, Sir:
        The Nith shall run to Corsincon,
        And Criffel sink in Solway,
        Ere we permit a Foreign Foe
        On British ground to rally!

        O, let us not, like snarling tykes,
        In wrangling be divided,
        Till, slap! come in an unco loun,
        And wi’ a rung decide it!
        Be BRITAIN still to BRITAIN true,
        Amang ourselves united;
        For never but by British hands
        Maun British wrongs be righted.

        The kettle o’ the Kirk and State,
        Perhaps a clout may fail in ‘t;
        But deil a foreign tinkler-loun
        Shall ever ca’ a nail in ‘t.
        Our FATHERS’ BLUDE the kettle bought,
        And wha wad dare to spoil it,
        By Heavens, the sacrilegious dog
        Shall fuel be to boil it!

        The wretch that would a Tyrant own,
        And the wretch, his true-sworn brother,
        Who’d set the Mob above the Throne,
        May they be damn’d together!
        Who will not sing GOD SAVE THE KING,
        Shall hang as high ‘s the steeple;
        But while we sing GOD SAVE THE KING,
        We’ll ne’er forget THE PEOPLE*!
        Fal de ral &c.

        *в народ …indeed.

        • Zed

          “Scotland is a nebulous grey fuzz somewhere north of Oop North.”

          Worse than that, it is nebulous cold and wet grey fuzz somewhere north of Oop North.

    • nevermind

      Not withholding that Poland has elected a right wing cabal that does not agree with the EU’s current unequal and deliberate elite politics, Donald Tusk is the polish Commissioner chosen.
      That he has been chosen for another year is indicative with the stupidity of appointed Commissioners, NO high ranking EU politicians should be appointed, all positions should be up for elections.
      To fuel the few fascists with this FAZ article here, Peter, which btw, you don’t have to they are well able to do that themselves, is cheap fuel, dreckige Braunkohle.

      • Habbabkuk

        Just for your information, Nebelmind :

        Mr Donald Tusk is not a Commissioner (whether Polish or otherwise) and never has been.

        He is, however, President of the European Council.

        Hope that helps.

        101 EU Studies recommended.

        • nevermind

          He is Polish and has been backed by his Government, an appointed person, dear file keeper, Habby, whatever they feed you under that rotten ol’ smelly bridge.

          One of the greatest problems of the EU is unaccountability at the top, the prerogative of the unelected elites and the mongers behind from day one and accepted by all who joined…..

          Voters in the EU must wake up to their condom reality one day, their voters proportional vote supports a so called local representative (chosen by his/her party) who agrees with Commissioners directing the agenda and govern by day to day responses, a top down dictatorial Government that is unaccountable and unaudited for a very long time.

          And all of that has been an old hat, been mentioned, questioned protested against by Green MEP’s for decades. Come to think of it, the British Government never mentioned this vital deficit, this pathetic manko, made no mention of it, deary me the old empire diplomats loosing it?
          Forgot the CAP fraud and unsustainable robbery of west African fish stocks, maybe we continue this lesson in bad habits next time when you’ve done your homework Habby.

          Why have the state of EU finances and audited returns never aggrieved any of the, oh so collaborating and clever Governments since?
          watch those wet stones, troll.

          • Habbabkuk

            “watch those wet stones, troll.”
            _______________________

            I certainly shall, Nebelmind, and thank you for the reminder.

            Meanwhile, Mr Donald Tusk, while certainly Polish (of the Kasubian variety), is not and has never been a member of the European Commission; however, he was appointed President of the European Council and has just been reappointed for a second two and a half year period.

            You should just have admitted you got everything wrontg rather than go to the trouble of posting 14 lines of diversion.

            You are the Just of Minna von Barnhelm – or perhaps even der Wirt. 🙂

  • Loony

    Maybe there are things somewhat more concerning than subjective assessments of other peoples opinions being “hate filled”

    Here is some music.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8SGxul6Xnh4

    The lyrics “headlines of death and sorrow, they tell of tomorrow, madmen on the rampage” although dating from 1978 seem all too apposite given current unfolding events in Dusseldorf. No doubt, very soon the masters of fake news will spin a web of lies explaining that ax attacks on railway stations are perfectly normal or perhaps that they don’t take place at all.

  • Becky Cohen

    Trouble is, Craig, that 99.9 per cent of the British media is owned and delivered by those with an extreme right-wing viewpoint. British journalism is institutionally Islamophobic, racist, transphobic, sexist, classist, anti-Semitic and ableist. Take, for instance, the way in which establishment journalists in the main British newspapers fell over themselves to rush to a Dame’s defence when she was given carte blanche by Murdoch’s Times (the paper of the establishment bosses on their golf courses) to dehumanise trans women. These people’s job is to turn the persecutor into the victim and the victim into the persecutor. However, for anyone willing enough to spend some time to examine what’s really going on will find that the mainstream media are creating a deliberately distorted picture which is the exact opposite of reality.

    • Becky Cohen

      …And what I’m trying to say, just to clarify, is that no way are either Muslims or transsexuals ‘taking over’ as the right wing journos attempt to suggest. The words that journalists write and speak can have a profound effect in the real world too as it emboldens and encourages people to attack their neighbour just because they are Muslim, trans etc.

      • Loony

        Your comments are always so informative. Do you have any idea as to how Muslims regard trans people? Do they get on well? Make common cause against the patriarchy? Or is there any possibility that they don’t exactly see eye to eye?

        It is not just journalism that is sexist. Think how the remarkable Rebekah Brooks was so mercilessly persecuted by the sexist Judicial system – all for the wholly trivial crime of Conspiracy to Pervert the Course of Justice. These charges were so ludicrous that even the notorious sexist Rupert Murdoch coughed up a trifling £40 million to fund her defense costs. Naturally when staring down the barrel of a gun firing £40 million in used notes the corrupt and sexist Judiciary ran up the white flag.

        Still we can all do our bit for the sisterhood by getting right behind Marine Le Pen – let’s shatter another glass ceiling by making sure France gets its first ever woman President.

        • fwl

          Do Muslims all have the same thought? In any event you appear to have chosen to misunderstand what she was saying.

          Judiciary did not run up a white flag. Jury acquitted Brookes but convicted Coulson.

          £40 million on Brooks’ defence or on all legal costs associated with the hacking cases?

          Hardly likely that Becky Cohen is a Le Pen supporter is it.

      • giyane

        The Qur’an has a pithy comment on detractors who intimidate in order to make money.
        Woe to the slanderers who denigrate people in order to embezzle and reinforce their wealth.

        Melanie Phillips is a BBC legitimised denigrator of Islam, while the UK participates in the break-up of Syria by proxy armies. The spoils of war are shared between the NWO extractors of oil and Saudi-backed gangsters who control the land. Woe basically means your chances are trashed.

    • RobG

      Do you have a problem with people like me calling them ‘presstitutes’? (a phrase I didn’t coin)

    • Ba'al Zevul

      a deliberately distorted picture which is the exact opposite of reality.

      The unkind are of the view that this precisely describes transsexuality itself. And where, given genomics, will it all end? ‘I’m not comfortable with being a human – I want to be universally accepted as a Komodo dragon?’ The lizard mind boggles…

    • giyane

      Then there was the Geordie Asian comedian who went up to Scotland and complained it was the first time he’d been racially abused for being English, not for the colour of his tan.

    • Anon1

      I thought I had tuned in to a slagging match between various warring factions of Scottish tribals. I thought Sunderland had fallen.

    • Zed

      “I thought Sunderland was in England.”

      There are:
      Sunderland, Ontario
      Sunderland, Cumbria
      Sunderland Bridge, County Durham
      Sunderland, a village in Lancashire also known as Sunderland Point
      North Sunderland, Northumberland
      Sunderlandwick, East Riding of Yorkshire
      Sunderland, Maryland
      Sunderland, Massachusetts
      Sunderland, Portland, Oregon
      Sunderland, Vermont

    • Anon1

      Muslim rule in India raped the country dry (read Irfan Habib). In 300 years of Mughal rule the entire wealth of India was transferred to the ruling elites. Every imaginable luxury was acquired by them, but they did not import so much as a printing press.

          • bevin

            In that it is it true. As to the claimm that:
            “In 300 years of Mughal rule the entire wealth of India was transferred to the ruling elites…”
            The ruling elites in question turned out to be the East India Company, while the transfer of the entire wealth of India, can hardly be said to have begun to take place before the “land settlements” of Cornwallis and other governors.
            The claim from beginning to end is silly no Indian to the left of the RSS would make it, and they might do so only to advance a racist cause.
            As to Habba’s silly contribution: what a waste of time.

  • fwl

    If we look back at the 1960s and how it has been thought about thereafter we see a divide with on the one side those who saw a flowering of liberal social democracy with ideas of freedom and a “can do / can explore” attitude flowing from intellectuals and elites unto popular awareness and everyday day life as a wave powered by the opportunity and freedom afforded by the end of empire and the traditional elite’s loss of self belief and confidence. On the other side those who somehow see the wave as the cause of change (as if it came from nowhere). The conservatives, or new versions of them, fought back and the backlash won.

    Why was that? Why does that keep happening? Is it that people are lazy, short sighted, easily manipulated, or do they not want freedoms, or can’t handle it?

    The sad thing is that whilst many were undoubtedly enfranchised and entered successful middle class life the enthusiastic confidence and support, whether that was in the news media, schools, universities, creative arts, fashion, or music has evaporated and now we have a world of the selfie and surveillance.

    • michael norton

      Kosovo ex-PM arrested in France on Serbian warrant
      http://uk.reuters.com/article/uk-france-kosovo-idUKKBN14O24R
      French police on Wednesday arrested former Kosovo prime minister Ramush Haradinaj, a guerrilla commander during the 1998-99 Kosovo war, on a Serbian arrest warrant, French police sources and Kosovo’s Foreign Ministry said.

      Serbia considers Haradinaj a war criminal for his role in leading a guerrilla insurgency in its former southern province of Kosovo, which declared independence with Western backing in 2008.

      Haradinaj served briefly as prime minister of Kosovo in 2004 and 2005, while it was a ward of the United Nations, before being tried and acquitted twice of war crimes at a U.N. court in The Hague.
      —–
      So Serbia, certainly think people from Kosovo can be involved in terror.

        • lysias

          Also the first Clintonite war. The war when NATO, which had lost its reason for being with the demise of the Soviet Union, transformed itself from a defensive to an offensive alliance. I still remember how Jamie Shea (bearing my mother’s maiden name), the NATO spokesman, spouted so many lies in defense of the war of aggression against Serbia.

          • lysias

            I had a job transcribing CNN at the time of that war. CNN’s business even back then was war propaganda. Whenever any of the on-screen talent mentioned the bombing of the Chinese embassy in Belgrade, invariably called it the “accidental bombing”. Which it was not. There must have been a memo.

            I still remember how shocked I was when I read an article in El Pais at the time about a team of Spanish medical experts who had been sent to Kosovo right after the war to investigate the genocide that the Serbs had allegedly committed. They concluded there had been no genocide. It was all a pack of lies.

  • michael norton

    Seven people have been injured in an axe attack at the main railway station in the western German city of Duesseldorf, police say.
    Ministry of Truth

    • Soothmoother

      It wasn’t a terror attack. A Prussian police spokesperson stated, “He is mentally ill and originates from the former Yugoslavia”. It has since been revealed that the perpetrator is from Kosovo. Coincidentally my wife was assaulted in the streets of Cologne by someone she thought was Kosovan.

      • Loony

        Maybe Germany is going the way of Sweden. All of Sweden is mentally ill and so everything that happens in Sweden is in consequence of mental illness.

        Isolate Sweden – It is the only way to stop the contagion. Do not buy Volvo’s. Do not listen to Abba. Obviously you can keep buying Swedish guns as they are the largest per capita arms manufacturers on the planet. That presumably is what a self proclaimed feminist government looks like. Make and sell the guns to kill people and then wail over the consequences of having killed them. But never, ever give the money back or stop selling arms.

          • Republicofscotland

            Soothmoother.

            Oh I don’t know I rather enjoy haggis and tatties, and neeps, with a little bit of black pepper added.

            Incidently, from 1748-1772 tatties or potatoes, to give them their proper name, were banned in France, as it was thought they caused leprosy.

        • Ba'al Zevul

          And they are Endorsed By The Orifice of Tony Blair (TM)

          ….like Serbia’s Vučić, incidentally…

      • Ben

        Regardless, society should ban sharp objects as they have done gunz. Axes, machetes and nail clippers. People can eat steak like a burger. We can’t risk the mentally ill having access. Oh, and motor vehicles must go as well.

  • Deepgreenpuddock

    Ochone ochone-it’s a terrible crime against whisky.
    But is it more disgraceful than some. other crookery.
    Was there a point to this comment-sounds like belly rumbling to me

  • Brian Fleming

    Craig, I’d suggest you reread the history of the early 18th century. Scotland did not enter a “voluntary union”. A few members of the landed aristocracy agreed the Union to keep themselves solvent. Scotland as a whole rejected the Union with riots lasting several months.

  • Loony

    I believe there to be a saying in English something like “It takes one to know one” Well here we have a prime example with Mr. Erdogan calling out the Germans as Nazis.

    http://www.strategic-culture.org/news/2017/03/09/erdogan-gives-germany-public-slap-across-the-face.html

    Exactly how mentally ill would you need to be to take an ex to people that you genuinely believed to be Nazis? How mentally ill would you need to be to befriend people who are (or maybe) convinced that you are a Nazi?

  • Republicofscotland

    “British citizens should be able to choose to keep various benefits of EU membership, including freedom of movement, the European parliament’s chief Brexit representative has said.”

    “Guy Verhofstadt said he hoped to convince European leaders to allow Britons to maintain certain rights if they apply for them on an individual basis.”

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2017/mar/10/let-britons-keep-freedom-of-movement-says-eus-brexit-negotiator

    A bit of common sense there from Mr Verhofstadt, though I fear Theresa May and the EU 27, may not come to an agreement over free-movement of people.

    The 27 EU nations are in talks today, with Theresa May and Britain on the outside unaware as what strength of unity the 27 possses over Brexit. It will be very difficult for May to gauge, of what it would take (deal wise ) to break those bonds of unity.

    • Loony

      I don’t know why either Theresa May or Britain in general would be “unaware as to what strength of unity the 27 possess over Brexit”

      I imagine Theresa May and most other people will be fully aware of forthcoming elections in both France and The Netherlands – elections where prominent candidates are standing on a platform of withdrawing their respective countries from the EU. Equally they are probably aware of opinion polls showing a majority of Italians in favor of withdraw from the EU.

      It is true that the position in Greece is so grotesque that people may be so repulsed by the full horror of it that they have averted their eyes and are consequently unaware as to the full spectrum devastation that the EU has inflicted on Greek society.

      Finally no sane person or sane entity would ever seek unity on anything at all with Sweden – the only example of a country ever voluntarily turning itself into a pariah state.

      • Republicofscotland

        Looney.

        You have a good point, with regards to the up and coming elections, with the far right “seemingly” doing well.

        A position if carried to through to the poles could destablise the very core of the EU 27. However in my opinion, I do not expect Le Pen to win the presidential elections, though I expect her to easily to make the next round.

        Nor do I expect Geert Wilders, to win the Dutch race to office, indeed the last I checked (two day ago) Wilders, was beginning to flag in the polls.

        The situation in Greece, a modern Greek tragedy, is basically one of their own making, though I am sympathetic to their plight.

        I should add that Greek extravagence, doesn’t just extend to their corruption and lack paying taxes. No the Greek national anthem is just as extravagant with 158 verses.

        • MJ

          “The situation in Greece, a modern Greek tragedy, is basically one of their own making”

          Yup, they really shouldn’t have joined the euro.

          • Republicofscotland

            Greece already had huge debts, because successive governments spent way more than they collected in taxes.

            The scale of tax evasion was staggering with tens of billions not being paid.

            Corruption and political favours were commonplace. While the Greek government’s accounts, were as good as fakes. Balance sheets submitted to its European partners often left out big spending projects.

            So when the 2008 crash hit Greece was already in big trouble financially.

            What made it even worse for Greeks, is when the Greek government began borrowing from huge sums from the IMF and EU.

            Staying on the Greeks for a moment, though technically he was Macedonian.

            Fidel Castro, named three of his sons after Alexander the Great, they are Alexis, Alejandro and of course Alexander.

          • Habbabkuk

            Interesting, RoS.

            Not so much what you say about Greece but the lack of reaction to it.

            I said much the same things quite a while ago.

            And got attacked ferociously. In particular by something calling itself “Macky”.

            Not a squeak out of “Macky”, however, when you say the same things.

            Must be that famous “CM community spirit” people keep mentioning.

          • MJ

            Nothing that having your own currency and control over your own exchange and interest rates can’t handle.

          • Soothmoother

            But who decided Greece matched the criteria for entry into the Eu? Goldmine Sachs perhaps. Expansion of the EU dictated by the USA. Welcome to the fold and here’s a missile system to oppose those aggressive Russians

          • bevin

            There is little point in rehearsing the case in Greece’s defence. The facts are plain enough and have been presented often enough.
            The problem is that those who worship at the Altar of the EU must insist on the justice of Greece’s sacrifice for the greater good of the financiers and their neo-liberal priesthood.
            It is sad to see the rapidity with which the supporters of the SNP-one can hardly say ‘Scots independence’, have swung behind the most appalling excesses of the EU. Excesses of which even the IMF, notorious for its attacks on working people in the name of austerity, recognises as such.
            And the saddest thing is that, should an ‘independent’ Scotland actually accede to the EU, it will be in immediate line for the treatment meted out to other small nations, Greece, Ireland and Portugal among them. But if there is one constant in Scottish history it is that the ‘elites’ have monetised their followers in a fashion not unlike that of those western African chieftains who sold their surplus populations to slave traders.

          • Why be ordinary?

            SYRIZA had the chance to change all this, with backing from a popular referendum. Why did they decide nevertheless to do another deal to stay inside the EU?

          • Zed

            “But if there is one constant in Scottish history it is that the ‘elites’ have monetised their followers in a fashion not unlike that of those western African chieftains who sold their surplus populations to slave trade”

            After all. Idi Amin was the last King of Scotland, eh?

          • Hmmm

            What a load of bollocks. The way you describe Greece would apply to virtually every country on the planet. I’m taking my ball and I’m not gonna play anymore. (That should work as its the level of your ‘analysis’.)

          • glenn_uk

            WBO: “SYRIZA had the chance to change all this, with backing from a popular referendum. Why did they decide nevertheless to do another deal to stay inside the EU?”

            They didn’t have much choice. The “deal” was either suck it up and stick it to the people (let the poor pay to make the rich Banksters good again with their lousy bets), or the EU would collapse the Greek banks. That was a direct threat, and there’s no reason to suppose the EU was not being serious.

    • John

      > Republicofscotland March 10, 2017 at 12:37

      > … It will be very difficult for May to gauge, of what it would take (deal wise ) to break those bonds of unity.

      Hmmmm. I reckon I could figure it out, had I GCHQ to help me.

    • Bhante

      Republicofscotland March 10, 2017 at 12:37
      “Guy Verhofstadt said he hoped to convince European leaders to allow Britons to maintain certain rights if they apply for them on an individual basis.”

      Oh, so Romanians and Bulgarians can also apply for freedom of movement to the UK and UK social services etc if they apply on an individual basis then? I suspect what he meant, though, is a way of creaming off elite professionals from the UK for the benefit of the EU countries …

  • Republicofscotland

    “The latest proposed school funding formula will see the majority of schools, academies and free schools funding cut under using the spin that this will make the system fairer throughout England. In real terms cuts will mean teacher redundancies, larger class sizes, reduced choice and ultimately children having a poorer educational experience.”

    https://you.38degrees.org.uk/petitions/stop-schools-in-england-funding-cuts

    Oh dear, not content by destroying the NHS in England, which is in a dire state. The British government have turned their austerity focused eye towards education.

    Still who needs an education, when we have Trident.

      • Republicofscotland

        Yes Fred, I believe you are correct or the Scotsman, that is. I won’t try to defend it by saying real time cuts of over £3 billion to the Scottish budget, by Westminster over the last few years hasn’t helped though.

        Interestingly the word “School” (ancient Greek) actually means free-time, or leisure-time

        • Deepgreenpuddock

          Yes, schools are great places without those bloody kids.
          i am curious to know how many people actually have a clue about school education. What I mean is everyone ‘knows’ (has some idea about it), having been to school, or having kids at school but what I mean is -who actually knows what happens in schools? Who understands all the organisations that contribute to the processes. One has to suspect that there is a lot of ‘opinion’, and not much else. Any thoughts on HGIOS 4?
          Let’s hear it from the assembled sages.

          • Sharp Ears

            Greening was heckled by head teachers.

            Education secretary heckled by angry head teachers
            http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/education-39224310

            ‘Angry head teachers heckled Education Secretary Justine Greening as she told a conference about her plans for new grammar schools.

            There were cries of “rubbish” and “no, no” as she said selective schools could close the achievement gap between rich and poor pupils.

            Ms Greening was addressing heads days after money was pledged in the Budget for new grammars and free schools.

            Schools’ demands for help with their running costs were not answered.’

          • Sharp Ears

            How Orwellian is that? Even the BBC was not allowed to film Greening’s speech.

          • Deepgreenpuddock

            One of my thoughts about Grammars is that it is a (simplistic) attempt to solve a particular problem,and that problem is one that dare not speak its name as it is not allowed to exist because it creates a real tension within the system, and exposes a rsther serious fault within education circles. It is mixed up with a whole lot of class attitudes and racism. O)ne could argue that Grammars are ‘cheaper’ to run than comps.That is one of the arguments offered up by the proponents however there is a counter argument that Grammars. assuming they are similar to Grammars from the past, are in effect absolving the already well to do of their need t pay for private education. It is a little bt true that ‘private education was useless in the sixties and seventies-all the innovation occurred in the state sector.the private sector was moribund and ineffective-a sociological throwback with beatings and rugger, and the ‘English disease’ of manly sexual abuse rife in these bastions of tradition.
            Much has changed. The private sector have dragged themselves out of the gutter since then ,mainly on the basis of the changes Thatcher brought about which favoured it and also comprehensivisation, which mean that the Grammar schools which were often grant aided/subsidised/ quasi private and provided for the professional classes aspiration and the odd working class savant nerd that came along were eliminated forcing the well to do to go private. This is about providing the means to revert to a class defined education system.

          • Zed

            Schools are simply another hierarchical system designed to keep our children “in their place” where they should “Be seen and not heard” blah,,,blah,,blah!

  • RP

    “By comparison, nobody as left wing as Phillips is right would ever be given airtime on the BBC or a column in The Times.”

    They wouldn’t be given a column in The Guardian never mind The Times.

    • Republicofscotland

      “They wouldn’t be given a column in The Guardian never mind The Times.”

      _________

      RP.

      Good point there, however the establishment is used to using those on the left, when needed.

      Arthur Ransome, author of Swallows and Amazons, married Trosky’s personal secretary, and back then you couldn’t have moved much further to the left, than Trotsky, if you tried.

      MI6, never ones to miss a opening recruited Ransome to spy on Trotsky, his codename a rather dull S76, compared to some. However Ransome was suspected of being a double agent.

  • Gulliver

    Why is Melanie Phillips Mainstream Acceptable?

    Come to that, why is Katie Hopkins mainstream acceptable? given that she has just been found to have libelled yet another entirely innocent party. I guess at some point an equation comes into play, does the outspoken pundit bring in more capitol than is expended in libel damages. Thus far I can only assume that the balance is still in Hopkins favour. Accuracy and general journalistic integrity is clearly absent from the calculation.

      • Sharp Ears

        £107,000 costs to be paid by Hopkins.

        I didn’t know that Hopkins had emerged on the public scene from the Lord Sugar Apprentice rubbish.

        Her radio show on LBC is dreadful. She went to Sandhurst but left after a year for medical reasons.

    • Republicofscotland

      Michael.

      I wonder if you ever actually read any of the links you post?

      Why are you highlighting Scotland? When the co-pilot is from Texas, and worked for United Airlines.

      If anything the security staff at the Scottish airport, should be commended for apprehending the drunken American co-pilot, before he could take-off in the Boeing 757.

      Speaking of arseholes, all humans start out as one (including you) its the first part of the body to form in the womb.

      • michael norton

        RoS have you ever considered that Saint Theresa May is sure Sturgeon will call another referendum
        and win it.

        Therefore there is no longer any need to continue with the charade.
        You will get fuck all from England, hard border it is.

        • Republicofscotland

          Michael.

          I can only say, with regards to your comment.

          The town of “Boring” (Oregan USA) is twinned with the town of “Dull” (Perthshire Scotland).

          I’m sure you get the picture.

      • John

        > Republicofscotland March 10, 2017 at 16:21

        > Speaking of arseholes, all humans start out as one (including you) its the first part of the body to form in the womb.

        Interesting. Ties in with Saturn, root chakra, survival-type stuff. Thanks RoS.

  • Deepgreenpuddock

    Re Katie Hopkins and other hate speechers- Good article from Glenn Greenwald re fake news, Trump and Russia and includes a thorough takedown of Lovely Louise Mensch. This article should be read along with the article by Bernie Sanders on similar subject in Guardian where he falls into the trap that GG is highlighting of fictionalisation of the Russia/Trump connections.

      • Deepgreenpuddock

        it is the latest post on his ‘Intercept’ blog.There is a link on this page on the RHS on the blogroll.
        As for Bernie Sanders-i think a search on Guardian would bring it up. Quite a recent article.

  • Ben

    Trump’s tea leaves just had a reading with the Park impeachment. No republican wants his name on the Obamacare replacement, written on the back of a napkin and passed without CBO reconciliation.

    Exterminator needed to remove wharf rats from the white house. Inquire within

  • michael norton

    so a half page write up is stopped because of one religion, this is political correctness gone bonkers.

  • michael norton

    If you are German and axed in a German railway station, or on a German train,
    it probably does not matter to you if the foreigner is mad or bad,
    your life is altered for ever
    and that of your close family and friends.
    It probably does not matter if the axe attacker is a Christian /*ew/Moslem/ atheist

    but what should be considered, is there a run of Muslims Axe/Knife attacking people on trains or railway stations?
    Recently in Chambery, Savoie, Annis Amri, the Berlin Christmas Market Mass Attack suspect
    was at the railway station, as President Francois Hollande was openeing a nearby hospital.
    The next day a soldier on vigipirate duties was knifed to death in an alley, next to Chambery railway station, I expect that perp
    was also mad.
    Enough of the madness.

    German authorities have been on alert for terror attacks, especially since an assault claimed by the Islamic State group in December when a hijacked truck ploughed into a Berlin Christmas market, killing 12 people.

    According to German security services, there are about 10,000 radical Islamists in the country, of whom 1,600 have suspected links to terror groups.

    There was another axe attack on a train in 2016 in Germany’s Bavaria, but no-one was killed and the attacker was found to be mentally unbalanced.

    http://www.france24.com/en/20170309-axe-attack-dusseldorf-germany-train-station-leaves-several-injured

    Kosovo is full or terrorists.

  • Ben

    So many historical parallels

    The Corsican saw his chance 5 years in.

    Trump: the model is not as patient and has greater hubris so the timeline may be significantly reduced since the first coup in 1799. We do things faster now. Elba is just around the corner.

  • Habbabkuk

    On the subject of the commenters on this blog all being middle-aged or older, RobG writes as follows in an effort to explain:

    “With regard to the age of posters on this and other comment boards, I would hazard that the lack of younger posters is due to the fact that boards like this are plagued by insane, old white gits, right wing lunatics most of whom are trolls, Zionist, corporate or – particularly on boards like this – government trolls on tax payer’s money.”

    Just three comments on that:

    1/. RobG is to be congratulated for being honest enough to admit the truth of what I wrote. Unlike others, who have kept a sulky silence or tossed a few insults around;

    2/. RobG is also to be congratulated for having identified correctly certain other characteristics of the Eminences. Or have I misunderstood?

    3/. There must be some reason, surely, why there are no young people commenting (and probably not reading either)? After all, you can’t say young people are not interested in politics, can you. If they were uninterested, how would one explain Mhairi Black? How would one explain the SNP Scottish government’s extension of the franchise to 16 year olds in the recent referendum on independence?

    • michael norton

      What on earth is wrong with the mods on this blog
      have they swallowed a book on political correctness, whole?

      • Zed

        “What on earth is wrong with the mods on this blog”

        That’s easy! They allow you to post just to show how tolerant of free speech Craig is. It’s the only explanation for why you have been tolerated for so long.

    • RobG

      Fascinating.

      I would suggest that the lack of younger posters is not because of people like me, who try to put forth a better vision for the future that will appeal to younger people, but because of the aforementioned ‘insane old white gits’, who offer nothing beyond continued ‘austerity’, and the ongoing rape and looting of the country’s economy by a bunch of people who by any measure should be doing serious jail time.

      The insane old white gits also want to march you off to war with Iran and Russia, for nothing other than corporate profit, as is the case in just about all wars. The fact that this could well be the last war on the planet Earth does not bother them, because they are psychopaths.

      I’m not kidding about this. These totally corrupt psychopaths want to take us to war, Unless you stop believing the total garbage pumped out by the presstitutes and the trolls, and get out on the streets and protest in large numbers, you will deserve everything you get.

      • JOML

        Rob G, Ithink you’ve summed the situation up quite concisely. Pretty depressing, particularly as there’s nothing on the horizon that suggests things will change for the better. Difficult to take to the streets without a central ideal. Divide and rule is as effective today as it every was – with many people more interested in ‘talent / reality’ shit TV.

        • RobG

          JOML, I should stress that I’m talking about peaceful protest. Obviously, any violence just gives the authorities the excuse they are looking for; and if they can’t find that excuse they stir it up with police agents causing violence seemingly from the protestors. This was particularly so during the Occupy Wall Street protests, and more recently with the massive protests that have been going on in France against reforms to employment laws and the ongoing ‘state of emergency’.

          What governments fear most is not terrorists or foreign powers, what they fear most is their own people. Hence we now find ourselves in a mass surveillance state with an army of trolls trying to ‘steer the conversation’. The main intent here is to prevent ordinary people from realising the collective power they have. It wouldn’t take too many tens of thousands of people to march on Parliament and force these corrupt little non-entities to be put on trial.

          We live in interesting times.

          • michael norton

            if you are a French Gypsie and you dislike the fact that your uncle is arrested for shooting someone, so you set light to cars and tyres on the motorway for several days, are you committing an arrestable offence?

      • RobG

        The corruption is right in your face…

        http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4288270/David-Cameron-paid-100-000-giving-speech.html

        https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2017/mar/08/george-osborne-to-be-paid-650000-for-working-one-day-a-week-blackrock-salary

        What more do you need me to say?!

        Cameron and Osborne are such non-entities that even shortly after they left office I have trouble remembering their names. Theresa May & Co have also just crawled out from under a rock, and they laugh at you, Joe Public (see this week’s PMQs).

  • Habbabkuk

    What I was trying to say was that if Melanie Phillips and Katie Hopkins can be accused, justly, of hate-speech then so can many who “comment” on this blog. To deny the truth of that is to be guilty of applying conveniently different standards.

    • Habbabkuk

      With the difference that Ms Phillips and Ms Hopkins do not attempt to keep their identities a secret from the generality of readers whereas the hate-speakers on here do.

      • glenn_uk

        I suppose you and ‘Anon1’ could teach us all a thing or two about that? 😉

        • Habbabkuk

          Don’t be daft, Glenn – I am not a hate-speaker.

          Seriously – why do you think most of the people on here who share their opinions with us on a daily basis are so secretive about who they really are? It cannot be because they are worried about becoming known to the authorities, for the simple reason that using a handle and perhaps even a non-existent email address is not going to let them remain anonymous to those whose job it is know. Is it rather – in your opinion – that they are ashamed of their views and do not wish to run the risk of being identified by their workmates, friends and perhaps even family? Or is it just a kind of childish thrill?

          • glenn_uk

            Since we seem to have decided everyone’s retired here, more or less, it’s probably not for my reason – that I’d rather keep politics away from my employer’s attention. And future employers, for that matter. I can only speak for myself, but nothing I’ve put down here would particularly surprise anyone I know in real life (because they already have utter contempt for me and my views, of course).

            Naturally some people want to post inflammatory crap because stupid, childish people like trolling.

            All the same – despite there being some objectionable, and certainly questionable, views aired here I haven’t seen very much in the way of “hate speech” – at least since those raving antisemites were cleared off here several years back. Who knows, they might all have been the same person.

          • bevin

            You continue to assert that commenters on this blog indulge in ‘hate speech.’
            I have on a couple of occasions challenged you to demonstrate this by linking to examples.
            The truth is that the only people who regularly publish ‘hate speech’ are those like yourself who celebrate the massacres of Palestinians and, defend the government’s provision of bombs to the Saud family for use in the Yemen.
            But perhaps you can cite ‘hate speech’ from those critical of the government and its allies. So far you haven’t.
            How does it go? Put up or shut up?

          • bevin

            Your understanding of the limits of anonymity are very out of date: employers in the USA can purchase complete reports of their employees;’ or potential employees’ contributions to social media, internet blogs etc for a very reasonable $13 annually.
            I am sure that the same facility exists in the most spied upon country on earth, compared to which the GDR in the high summer of Stasi was a hermitage.

          • Why be ordinary?

            The Stasi made it easier for themselves by restricting access to typewriters and copiers, so they did not have so much to look at.

          • Ba'al Zevul

            So who the hell are you?* Everything you say there applies in spades to you. And you really are doing your best to find out as much as you possibly can about other posters while remaining completely incognito yourself. With your assumed concern for age balance…you’re looking weirder with every passing comment. I’ll rephrase that. You’re a creep. If I were under 30 and read your posts here I wouldn’t hang around.

            *Not that I personally give a flying one – if you want to be anonymous, that’s, rather entertainingly, fine by everyone but you.

          • Habbabkuk

            “And you really are doing your best to find out as much as you possibly can about other posters..”
            ______________________

            Can you back that up, Baal? And why should I need to do that?

            ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

            “With your assumed concern for age balance”
            _______________________

            Show me where I’ve expressed concern – assumed or otherwise – for “age balance” on this blog?

            All I have done is point out that the commentariat on here is overwhelmingly middle-aged and older and wonder why no young people are commenting (or perhaps even reading).

            Why should that simple statement of fact – I note that no-one has contradicted me so far – have you get your knickers so in the twist?

          • michael norton

            I would be astonished if anyone under the age of our host
            would bother with this dribble.

  • michael norton

    The Syrian government has reportedly complained to the UN about Turkish troops on its territory and has asked the UN Security Council (UNSC) to end “Turkish aggression.” It follows a reported attack on the Syrian Army by Turkish forces.
    Russia Today

    For years it has been easy to see that Turkey has been one of the, if not the main instigators of the Syrian “civil” war.
    Hatay Province was stolen from Syria by Turkey.
    The Free Syrian Army was instigated in Hatay Province.
    It is from Hatay Province that Turkey shot down the Russian Jet.
    Turkey has been buying oil from Islamic State.
    Turkey is trying to steal Northern Syria.
    Yet the United Nations
    do nothing?

    • Peter

      I think in fact Syria, Saudia, Iraq, etc were all part of the Turkish Ottoman Empire before they got “stolen” or rather partitioned by the the colonial powers Britain and France.

      • Bhante

        I think the Ottoman Empire was only a passing fad anway. Syria, by contrast (or at least the ancient civilisations that once lived there), is a part of ancient history. I could be mistaken, but I think there is even some measure of continuity with that ancient history – tolerance of ethnic and religious diversity included!

        • michael norton

          I suspect Erdogan is attempting to reconstitute the Islamic Empire of Turkey,
          with himself as Sultan.

        • Kempe

          ” I think the Ottoman Empire was only a passing fad ”

          Yes it only lasted 600 years and pushed as far into Europe as the Danube and as far south as the Gulf.

  • RobG

    Just before last Christmas, President Obama signed the National Defense Authorization Act (NDAA) 2017 into law. The NDAA 2017 contained a little surprise: the ‘Countering Disinformation and Propaganda Act’, which gives the legal authority to close down web sites that promote ‘fake news’. Obama also signed an executive order which allows the National Security Agency to freely share mass surveillance data with the fifteen other intelligence agencies (incidentally, many of these intelligence agencies were unknown until the Snowden revelations). President Obama had a habit of burying bad laws in the Christmas holidays. The NDAA 2013 overturned the Smith Mundt Act, thus legalising the use of government propaganda on the American public, and of course the NDAA 2012 allows for the indefinite detention of American citizens without trial. Strangely, though, this historical and truly terrifying moment, when American citizens had their liberty removed, was barely reported in America and the rest of the world. Never in the history of modern democracy has such a law been passed.

    Do you lot think I’m making this stuff up?

    • Bob Apposite

      Actually, as an American citizen I support most of that stuff.

      I’d rather have the NSA (Americans) surveilling us than WikiLeaks (who knows who the hell they are)?
      And I’m sick and tired of all the fake news, which is just another word for propaganda.

      • Bob Apposite

        These non-state anonymous actors are waging increasing influence on our domestic politics, and most of what they circulate is dishonest, misleading, or just all-out-b.s.

        There’s nothing “Libertarian” about THAT.

      • Salford Lad

        Off topic but relevant to just about eveything in our modern broken society;

        Wikileaks/ CIA/ Vault 7
        Edward Snowden revealed how the National Security Agency (NSA) records every bit of worldwide electronic communications and stores it in its facility in the Nevada Desert, So digital privacy no longer exists.They also have the ability to invade your space by eavedropping on the cameras in-built in Android phones and laptops.
        Now this past week Wikileaks disclosed,with its release of 8k documents, titled Vault 7, that the CIA has a similar facility with the added ability to control remotely any electronic controlled device ,including cars ,planes ,power stations etc, This is mind boggling and would have previously belonged to the conspiracy theory/Tin foil hatter element.
        It is noticeable that the media has not publicised this massive invasion of privacy, but that is expected from a controlled media.(another tinfoil hat assertion)
        See attachment for a broader view.
        https://wikileaks.org/ciav7p1/

        • michael norton

          Do they consider the Involvement of actors, in Syria, one of which, might be the United Kingdom,
          less important than Melanie Phillips,
          or are we to be consigned to mindless trivia?

        • KingofWelshNoir

          Actually the Mirror ran a story on it. It really is mind-boggling, they can even turn Skype calls into text in real time and store them in the Cloud to peruse at their leisure. Essentially everything you say or do online now, or in the presence of web-enabled technology, is either recorded and stored, or can be. The word Panopticon doesn’t come close to describing it. The truly depressing thing is, there doesn’t seem to be anything one can do, apart from return to the age of the horse and cart.

          • glenn_uk

            I was quite surprised to get an email telling me that I’d missed a call through Skype – a transcript of the message was included in the email!

            Obviously it got a few words a bit wrong, but the meaning was clear enough.

            Bear in mind that text is exceedingly compressible – I just did a quick estimate, reading out 50 words which took 15 seconds. A 9-minute conversation would run to about 1800 words, about 10.5K . This neatly compresses into 738 bytes – not a huge strain for systems with storage capacities measured in the petabytes.

            Recording such a conversation from everyone in the country each day would come in under 40GB – quite achievable for security services with unlimited budgets.

          • KingofWelshNoir

            Although of course turning Skype calls into text is actually small beer compared to the other hacks such as, say, remotely taking over your car and crashing it into a tree

  • michael norton

    I am quite stunned, I don’t think I knew any of this stuff, is it being kept silent from the public?
    Combined Joint Task Force – Operation Inherent Resolve
    As of August 2016 US Lieutenant General Stephen J. Townsend commands CJTF-OIR in an appointment which consolidates three commander’s tasks. Lieutenant General Townsend has two deputies, a British Army officer, Major General Rupert Jones, who is currently serving as CJTF-OIR Deputy Commander-Strategy and Sustainment, and a US Air Force officer, Major General Scott A. Kindsvater, who is currently serving as CJTF-OIR Deputy Commander-Operations and Intelligence. CJTF-OIRs headquarters is based at Camp Arifjan in Kuwait and includes approximately 500 personnel from 15 nations who are involved in coordinating operations in Iraq.

    As part of CJTF-OIR, countries which have conducted airstrikes in Iraq include the United States, Australia, Canada, Denmark, France, Jordan, the Netherlands and the United Kingdom. Those who have conducted airstrikes in Syria include the United States, Australia, Bahrain, Canada, France, the Netherlands, Jordan, Saudi Arabia, Turkey, the United Arab Emirates and the United Kingdom.
    from Wiki

    How come this shit is never discussed in public?

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