Consenting to be Insulted, Abused, Degraded and Ignored 152

Scottish politics has been dominated these last few months by the attempt by Westminster to seize wide ranging powers in major policy areas shortly formerly held by Brussels, which under the Scotland Act would come to Holyrood as they are not “reserved matters”. The Tory plan is to use the EU exit legislation to override the Scotland Act and seize these powers initially for a period of seven years, after which rather arbitrary period the matter will be looked at again.

This ties in to a wider row that any changes affecting the powers of the Scottish parliament require a Consent Order of the Scottish parliament, again under the Scotland Act. The Tories have however a brilliant way around that one by redefining “consent”, which is this latest government amendment to the EU withdrawal Bill:

30 (4) For the purposes of subsection (3) a consent decision is—

(a) a decision to agree a motion consenting to the laying of the draft,

(b) a decision not to agree a motion consenting to the laying of the draft, or

(c) a decision to agree a motion refusing to consent to the laying of the draft;

Yes, honestly, I am not making this up. You can find it at the bottom of page 6 here.

The Welsh parliament under the spineless leadership of Carwyn Jones and his crew of Blairite lickspittles, has already happily agreed to Westminster’s power grab. The outrage of the move against the Scottish parliament is reported in the corporate and state media here in Scotland as “Sturgeon fails to secure brilliant deal agreed by Welsh”.

I am very much behind some brilliant fellow bloggers like Wings Over Scotland and Wee Ginger Dug in discussing these matters, which they do much better anyway. The reason for this is I do not really care.

I do not really care because it is axiomatic that so long as Scotland is in the Union, Scotland will be abused, degraded and ignored. There is no happy devolution settlement to be reached within the UK. I am not greatly exercised about who sets the amount of subsidy on a neep, when my taxes are wasted on massive nuclear WMD, when the nation to which I involuntarily belong is supplying bombs to kill children in Yemen, and when Scotland’s own young men and women can be sent to kill others and be killed themselves in yet another neo-colonial war.

The UK Parliament and Supreme Court have both made abundantly clear in the last year that any powers of the Scottish parliament may be overriden by Westminster at will. Having temporary powers, by Westminster’s grace and favour, in a glorified regional council at Holyrood does not interest me at all. It is time to move to real Independence.

Two things are very clear to me. The attitude to the Scottish parliament shown by the above amendment, makes it very plain that Westminster will not agree another referendum to be held on Scottish Independence. It is also the case that Independence is conferred not by Westminster but by recognition by the United Nations, and there is no requirement for a referendum. The majority of countries in the World today achieved independence without a referendum, including almost all of Africa, South America and Asia. More to the point, seven EU member states achieved Independence in my lifetime without a referendum.

The Scottish Parliament should simply declare Independence, just as it was the the corrupt Scottish Parliament that abnegated Independence in 1707. There was no referendum on joining the Union. An alternative to a vote in Parliament would be to call a National Assembly comprising all Scotland’s MP’s, MEP’s and MSP’s. The Independence decision should be effective immediately, but followed by a confirmatory referendum.

Scotland is going to be seeking its Independence shortly, in a situation akin to Catalonia and not to 2014. The argument over who controls neeps has played a useful role in making plain Westminster’s contempt for Scotland. It is now time to forget it, and move on to Independence. To do otherwise is to consent to permanent abuse.

152 thoughts on “Consenting to be Insulted, Abused, Degraded and Ignored

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  • Richard Gadsden

    I count eight EU members becoming independent in your lifetime: Estonia, Latvia, Lithuania, Slovenia, Croatia, Slovakia, Malta and Cyprus.

    Arguably, Germany formally ended the post-WWII occupation in 1991 (but I would regard 1949 as the real deal)

    For the rest: Austria 1955, Germany 1949, Ireland 1919, Finland, Poland, Czechia and Hungary 1918, Bulgaria 1908, Romania 1877, Luxembourg 1839, Belgium 1830, Greece 1822, Portugal 1640, Netherlands 1581, Sweden 1523. I’m not counting occupations by Hitler or Napoleon. France, Italy, Spain, Denmark and the UK were never really under foreign rule to become independent from.

    • bj

      Correction: Netherlands becamse depdendent again when it joined NATO in 1949 (and a little later the European Coal and Steel Community, forerunner to the EU, in 1951).

  • Bunkum

    Bojo to address NATO on Russia later today

    News story
    Foreign Secretary to discuss Russia at NATO meeting

    Foreign Secretary Boris Johnson will discuss Russia’s continued “reckless and destabilising” activity, at a NATO Foreign Ministers’ meeting in Brussels today (April 27).
    Published 27 April 2018

    Foreign & Commonwealth Office and The Rt Hon Boris Johnson MP

    During his intervention at the meeting, the Foreign Secretary will also urge fellow NATO allies to do more to tackle ‘hybrid threats’ such as cyber-attacks, and interference in the domestic politics and infrastructure of Russia’s near-neighbours.

    Ahead of the meeting, the Foreign Secretary Boris Johnson said:

    This is the first NATO Foreign Ministerial since the attempted murder in Salisbury, and the chemical weapons attack in Syria. It is a key moment to discuss Russia with foreign ministers of all 29 allies.

    At the July Summit NATO will take decisions on how to enhance its deterrence and defence.

    NATO’s ability to react quickly has already been demonstrated by the Alliance’s swift response to both the attack in Salisbury and in Syria, and by its show of solidarity with the UK’s actions.

    We have seen similar support from the EU and the G7. We must now maintain momentum and hold Russia to account for its reckless and destabilising behaviour.

    During the meeting, Allies will also discuss other important issues including Afghanistan, enlargement, and projecting stability.

    • oah


      A US citizen all his life, until the cost became uncomfortable, he is a bought and paid for neocon warrior utterly lacking in substance, the most despicable scumbag in british public life in generations. A tool.of whoever will pay him the most whether the us or its master israel.

  • kevin Fitmaurice-Brown

    The American corporates have offices in UK for many years ‘ sleepers ‘ . these offices are waiting to take control. They refuse to answer any questions from any outsiders and have done for years.
    They have made mistakes and sent British people seriously heavy marketing amounting to threats. Which of course is banned in UK and the EU.
    They have secretly invaded and been given the green light to lie in wait by the Thatcher government. Who treasonously sold Britain and the British people to another country and its corporates.
    Companies such as Progressive Insurance. Read its ‘ Care Values ‘ and you would think you are doing business with your grandmother. But this company even in America is regarded as crooked and untrustworthy to say the least. Yet they wait to pounce like many others. Secretly to asset strip and control UK and its people. And us it as a stepping stone to Europe.

    While the innocents fight with banners protesting against bad meat being imported , they have not even scratched to surface of the evil that sits in wait already on British shores lying ready to ambush and to over run the country with its evil laws for profit only.
    The Tory cabinet ‘holding hands ‘ , yes its a signal. BREXIT is about TTIP. The Conservative government is under the total control of USA and other corporates. And that means far worse than any invasion by Nazi Germany in WW2.
    The millions who died for the freedom of Britain and the world died for nothing. The same type of psychopaths have another plan to invade by stealth. Thatcher the Tories are their puppets and traitors to their own people and the human race. This is not an exaggeration..

  • mike

    Corbyn has to step in and fight the expulsion of Marc Wadsworth, FFS. He has to understand that he has to FIGHT against the Blairites. If he gives ground they will only want more.

  • CameronB Brodie

    Contemporary British nationalism is an expression of Tory ethos and tradition, or to be more precise, it’s an expression of fascistic racism that is charaterised by a particularly Anglican voice (see the Prime minister, for example). Liberty and the respect of others has no future in a Scotland that is bound to the will of England.

    Volition and Agency

    The psychology of volition

    The Agentic Self: On the Nature and Origins of Personal Agency Across the Lifespan,%20Snyder,

  • copydude

    I find ‘The Scottish Question’ quite fascinating.

    I was born in the South East and spent most of my working life in Europe. I retired last year to the North East and it had never occurred to me before how totally London centric this country is. The state of some surely important towns north of Watford – Derby in particular – quite shocked me in comparison to their European regional counterparts.

    Just down the road from me is Bishop Auckland, which appears to have been in unarrested decline since Mrs Thatcher decided to smash the Unions and the local economy at the same time. The Miners’ Strike – probably the most shameful domestic event in our recent history – was over 30 years ago, yet only now is some kind of regeneration happening in Bishop and only with a private initiative.

    I think it isn’t only Scotland that needs more local determination. And clearly a Labour Party at Westminster has failed its most ardent and natural supporters. My local MP is Helen Goodman, whose majority is now 502, down from er. . . . 11,000 plus. For people to vote Tory in a place like this is just crackers.

    • Doodlebug

      @Copydude 16:54

      “For people to vote Tory in a place like this is just crackers.”

      Every once in a while people up and down the country feel a need to purge Westminster, once they realize that government has been conducted by despicable liars. Inevitably, given our (still very largely) two-party system, the outcome is not to rid parliament of duplicity at all, but merely re-distribute the respective rosettes. Neither major party can lay claim to a clean bill of health – a situation that has pertained for decades.

      • Paul Barbara

        @ Doodlebug April 27, 2018 at 17:16
        @Copydude 16:54
        ‘..Neither major party can lay claim to a clean bill of health – a situation that has pertained for decades.’
        But which hopefully won’t persist under a Corbyn Prime Ministership, and a Labour Party purged of sick Bliarites and their ilk, which is why they have all got their knickers in a twist….they can see the trough disappearing from under their snouts.

        • Doodlebug

          I applaud your optimism, yet I am made uncomfortable by the more recent topic under discussion (Mark Wadsworth) and the feeling that ‘sick Blairites’, as you put it, will not be the primary cause for concern in the future. if the leader of a parliamentary party has constantly to look over their shoulder for fear of being labelled ‘anti this, that or the other’, eventually those of this, that or the other persuasion will be in a position of influence greater than their standing. In a nutshell, I worry that the tail has ambitions to wag the dog.

        • flatulence

          The powers that be are certainly scared of Corbyn, as I’ve said earlier, this is clear to see in the resources dedicated to destroy him. This is a strong indication that optimism is justified.

          • Michael McNulty

            The concerted actions against Jeremy will eventually overwhelm him and cause the left of the party to break away and form a new party. When Jeremy goes the Tories and Blairites will show themselves less as two parties and more like two wings of the one-party state. People who want better for themselves and the country will have a new party which could soon become the largest political party in Britain and unhindered by foreign influence.

            A new party should have been formed after Blair tainted the Labour brand, and it would have had twenty years now to establish itself.But iIt will happen in the end because our new one-party state and its media, in their efforts to crush the progressive left, is going to force the creation of a new and powerful movement.

          • flatulence

            it hasn’t overwhelmed him yet, and it’s been overwhelming. If anything I think he’s getting stronger, though we are sheilded from getting that impression in the press. I agree about forming a new party, but I wonder if it isn’t as simple as that. Certainly better that the blarites leave to form a new party to split the right-middle vote rather than other way round and further splitting the left-middle vote etc.

  • fred

    I look at the news and Nicola Sturgeon is off in China when international affairs are not devolved and at the same time a 59 year old grandmother waits in agony for an ambulance which never arrives. Twice the SNP have asked Westminster to delay handing over a raft of new welfare powers because they are not capable of administrating them and won’t be until at least 2021 yet they are demanding further new powers as soon as possible.

    • Republicofscotland

      Of course ambulances always arrive in the rUK, or do they? A woman waited so long for an ambulance that she ended up being taken to hospital by helicopter instead.

      But then again there’s no angle to blame the S&G on this one or the multitude of others that occur in the rUK, change the record Fred.

  • fwl

    UDI – is so obviously not appropriate for Scotland after losing the referendum.

    A declaration of independence would be in such blatant contravention of the wishes of the majority as expressed in the 2016 vote that it would simply be (a) wrong (b) cause mischief (c) incite trouble and (d) stigmatise the event.

    If the SNP had it in mind to make a UDI then they should never have agreed to a referendum.

    If you agree to a process and lose you can’t then say that the process would have counted if you had won but not if you lose: that is a bad loser. If Peter sues Paul and loses he should not then just take from Paul. To suggest UDI would be as bad as for a right winger to support a military coup if Corbyn won: both would be fundamentally wrong (though I dare say military coups are old hat these days now that control is essentially electronic).

    Well all shades of behaviour occur, but if someone does not stand by their word then they undermine their reputation. Is that any sort of way for a state to emerge?

    Those who opposed independence in the vote would have been aggrieved if they lost the referendum but that would be nothing to how they would respond to UDI. They would then be entitled to have no confidence in the new government and to view it as a dictatorship and not as a democracy. You may have good cause to query the extent to which democracy is functioning in the UK, but nonetheless information is available even if it is subtly damned so that there is only a trickle. And we still have the vote.

    One can bang on about BBC bias as much as one likes but bias was inevitable and expected.

    Cameron played a card and won (which gave him ill-judged confidence to play the referendum game with Brexit) .

    Of course it is true that some countries are born out of violence and go on to prosper, but most posters here do not support some of the most prominent examples of those countries.

    After accepting that a referendum was the correct process then for the foreseeable future a referendum is required and in the absence of the unthinkable it should obviously wait for a generation before being repeated.

    The situation is not akin to Catalonia because Catalonia was not offered a legal referendum.

    • Bill Purves

      Scotland is a country. England was at it then, bribing some of the few people who could vote, on condition Scotland took over 25% of its debt. We have been repaying it ever since as Westminster keeps increasing it.

      • fwl

        That was in the C18. What was meant by country then and now are not remotely similar. Basically we live on a rock. We are the people who live on the rock.

    • reel guid


      The 2014 referendum is null and void. The unionists seriously broke the strict rules by making an empty promise of devo max just before polling day and must have affected the vote in their favour. The Brown Vow was not kept. After a long 2 year referendum campaign the SNP Government could do nothing but accept the result. But the 2014 result deserves no respect.

      • Fwl

        Ok I won’t bang on about this for risk of sounding like some Anon1, but I have posted a request below for practical examples of what decision making powers clause 11 is taking away from Scotland and for a decent attempt to critique it; I concede its not easy reading.

  • Sergei Skripal's Younger Brother

    It’s all constantly Hegelian Dialectic, where the normal people fight amongst themselves, whilst the Monarchy Mafia, Banksters and lackeys continue to rape the populace economically via the state.

  • John Cowan

    Get the Hell out of this “union” once and for all. I refuse to live in this dictatorship created by this Tory (English) government.
    David Mundell should be arrested as a traitor to Scotland.

  • Colin Simpson

    Absolutely right ,there is no way this government will grant a second Independence ref, for they cannot win it.They want complete control and will use any means to get it, I cannot see an easy path to Independence,but if this is the way to do it then let’s go for it

  • FranzB

    CM – “An alternative to a vote in Parliament would be to call a National Assembly comprising all Scotland’s MP’s, MEP’s and MSP’s. ”

    Another alternative would be for Sturgeon to call an election for the Scottish parliament with a policy that should the pro independence parties win a majority then that majority would declare Scotland’s independence from the UK (shades of Catalonia). No post independence referendum would be required, but a national assembly would be required to agree a new constitution.

    Sturgeon should time this election at the most propitious time.

  • Petra

    “The Scottish Parliament should simply declare independence …”

    I don’t know what you’re playing at Craig but it looks as though you’ve totally lost the plot now.

    The way forward is to ‘convert’ another 6% or so (at least) of Scots to support Independence. You have / had it in your power to contribute greatly to doing so but for some reason chose not to. In fact if anything you seem to have been doing your utmost to denigrate Nicola Sturgeon (the SNP) to the point of no doubt losing us support. Now you advocate creating absolute mayhem in Scotland, civil war in fact, when we’re close to achieving our objective. To say I’m extremely concerned, seriously disappointed in you, is an understatement.

    • copydude

      But Petra, it sounds shocking, yes. But you make the mistake of supposing HM Gov are as reasonable and logical and open to compromise as yourself. As the situation in Catalonia shows, those with power will use it any way to assert their dominance.

    • Hatuey

      The polls mean nothing. How can polls possibly mean a thing in a system dominated by BBC lies? It’s all fake, like West World. What do you think a poll in Moscow would have told you in 1980?

  • Jill Nicoll

    So agree with all of this. I agree we have to take our independence without a referendum, for the simple reason that there are many of our countrymen who won’t get off their collective lazy backsides to vote if they don’t think they are going to be affected, and convincing them that they will be affected in more awful ways than they can even imagine. I, personally, am in dread of what will happen in our beautiful country if we do not snatch back our independence. A referendum is NOT a necessity. Go for it

  • Mochyn69

    This bizarre amendment, which I, as a lawyer, can’t really make much sense of without more context and background, applies equally to Wales and Northern Ireland.

    I just have the feeling that it’s not good at all!


  • Fwl

    Reading through the posts above I can’t see any practical examples of what sort of powers might be lost?

    Nor is there any coherent critique of Clause 11.

    Craig might have some sort of point but instead of a lot of drum banging is anyone able to give examples of what decision making powers might be lost by Clause 11.

  • Robert

    As others do, I think the quoted part of the bill is a definition of “consent decision”, not a definition ot “consent”.

    My saying that I don’t want to be given sausages for my tea is a consent decision. I’ve stated that I don’t consent to getting sausages.

    The problem is in the previous paragraph.

  • Az

    Should just point out small detail that Carwyn Jones was gone by the time of the Welsh capitulation. The two may or may not be related 😉

  • Bill Hosie

    The Welsh realize that the next government in England will be Labour ask if Corbyn was in on the decision

    • K.A.Mylchreest

      The discussion linked to concerns the status of the present Scottish parliament, whether or not it can be considered the legal/constitutional successor to the original pre-Union Scots Parliament. Following from this whether and under what circumstances UDI might be possible or justified. A properly informed legal opinion would be helpful, to say the least …

      • Alf Baird

        Scotland has no need to declare independence to anyone. Constitutionally Scotland is not a region or a colony of the UK. Scotland IS the UK, together and equally with England; the UK parliamentary union is just as much ours as theirs. Scotland established a joint parliament with England by majority decision of Scotland’s MP’s and the UK union and its joint parliament may be undone in the same manner. That is the constitutional reality of the treaty and act of union. To believe otherwise would be to call into question the way the union and the joint UK parliament itself was formed. Scotland has a treaty and act which confirms its constitutional status as a joint signatory sovereign nation together with England to the UK union and parliament. There can be no disputing this or that a simple majority of Scotland’s MP’s can undo what was done in the same manner.

  • Alan Laing

    I totally agree with the above statement, and would like nothing more than to be rid of this Master and slave relationship we have with Westminster, I could not care less who or in which way we gain our dignity back, As long as it happens, the sooner the better!
    I lnow how much George Galloway holds you in esteem and his respect for your investigative reports, maybe you can convince him and others like him that indy is the best thing for Scotland.
    I have been a great believer in George and his politics for many years, but when he stood shoulder to shoulder with tories and blairite traitors to campaign vehemently against Independance for Scotland I lost a lot of respect for him, I know he could not care less about my opinion but I feel he may respect yours Craig.

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