There Is Another England 1079


Given the centuries of economic exploitation, political domination and depopulation, I perfectly understand why many Scots support any team at the World Cup which is playing England. But, with an English mother and two English grandparents who largely brought me up, I do not feel that way and I raised a glass at Harry Kane’s late winner. Let me tell you why.

My grandfather Henry was a lifelong socialist who had no illusions about the British Empire and its role in the World. Yet he was also a patriotic Englishman whose life, like so many of his generation, was largely defined by the struggle against Nazism, in which his only son had been killed. That focus on the Second World War partly explained his fondness for the Soviet Union, in discussing the abuses of which he would always remark “But you have to consider what came before. Given where they started, they are making progress”. He would recite “A man’s a man for a’that” to me as a small child and explain its meaning. Yet Henry would fly his St George’s flag proudly when occasion warranted it. I do not therefore automatically associate that flag with UKIP or with Essex man.

Because there is another England, that from which Henry sprang, the England documented lovingly by E P Thomson and vividly recorded by Robert Tressell, the England of William Hazlitt, Mary Wollstonecraft, the Putney debates and Thomas Paine. Michael Foot embodied the inherited wisdom of that tradition and it has re-emerged with unexpected vigour in the shape of Jeremy Corbyn, a man whose attraction lies in the very fact he encapsulates notions of basic decency that the English political elite had attempted to cast off.

I regard Scottish Independence as part of the continuing process of decolonisation. Ireland’s population will in the next decade overtake Scotland’s for the first time in centuries, and as of today Ireland’s GDP per capita stands 25% higher. Scotland can never achieve its potential without first achieving its Independence. But we can do that without wishing ill to our neighbours; some of them are quite nice.


1,079 thoughts on “There Is Another England

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  • Helen Pender

    My grandfather fought in the first world war. He was embittered by the second world war, having been told in 1917-1918 he was fighting a war to end all wars. However I often think about what his attitude and those he fought alongside might be to the attrition of rights, the abolition of which we now take for granted to keep us safe from terrorist attacks. Jury trials abolished for most trials, trials in secret, the surveillance culture which we’ve accepted in every parr of our lives. There have only been 126 deaths from 2000 to 2017, but far more deaths in police custody. Patriotism for one’s country has to be mediated by vigilance against the encroachment of basic freedoms.

    • Martinned

      Jury trials are still very much a fact of English life. Whether that’s a good thing is a question for another day, for when you’ve read The Secret Barrister’s book. (He has two chapters “pro” and “con”…)

    • Sharp Ears

      Verily a policed state now. Following the introduction of tasers for the police by the thuggish Blunkett when he was Home Secretary.

      Timeline of Taser controversies in the UK
      There have been at least 17 deaths linked to the use of the stun guns since they were introduced in 2003
      https://www.theguardian.com/world/2016/aug/16/timeline-of-taser-controversies-in-the-uk

      In 2017 – links underneath that article

      14 Dec 2017 Extra 500 Scottish officers to get Tasers after rise in assaults on police

      20 Jun 2017 Met to increase number of officers with Taser electronic weapons

      24 May 2017 Man shot with Taser electronic weapon by police in Cornwall dies

      18 Apr 2017 Met chief prioritises giving officers Tasers and fighting cybercrime

      13 Apr 2017 Police Taser use in England and Wales rises to rate of 30 times a day

      16 Feb 2017 Black and mixed race people in London more likely to be Tasered

      2 Mar 2017 Amber Rudd authorises more powerful Tasers for police

      20 Jan 2017 Police shoot their own race relations adviser in Bristol with a Taser electronic weapon He is 63!
      ______
      I see that Blunkett still gets a say along with Lord Mendelsohn on the affairs of this ‘state’..

      10.30 am
      Liaison Committee (Lords) – Oral Evidence Session
      Review of investigative and scrutiny committees
      The Lord Lisvane KCB DL
      The Rt Hon the Lord Blunkett
      (at 11:15 am)
      The Lord Mendelsohn
      The Lord Hollick
      Location: Room 3A, Palace of Westminster https://calendar.parliament.uk/calendar/Lords/All/2018/6/20/Daily

      See Milord Blunkett’s extensive register of interests and Milord Mendelsohn’s even more extensive list. All of their fingers in so many pies.
      https://www.parliament.uk/biographies/lords/lord-blunkett/395

      https://www.parliament.uk/biographies/lords/lord-mendelsohn/4286 No less than 16 directorships! Categories 10(b) and 10(e) have interesting content.

      • IrishU

        Seventeen deaths out of how many deployments of the Taser? Seventeen deaths in fifteen years seems a remarkably low number of deaths for a so-called ‘Police(d) State’. You really do spout such hyperbolic tosh.

        Imagine my surprise to find you making yet more references to a Jewish person’s links to Israel and Jewish organisations!!

        • Sharp Ears

          Are you Dreolin? 🙂 Stop channellng me.

          Any death of a citizen by the police using such an evil weapon should be taken seriously.

          Are you at the Israeli Embassy? Have you actually looked at the register of interests for Mendelsohn? That is where power lies in this country and in OUR parliament..

          And Antonyl. Do you have nothing else to do or say other than puppeting for others?

  • McTavish

    You could move to China Craig but don’t call yourself a Chinaman.

    You are English, get used to it. By all means meddle in Scotland’s affairs but you will never be a Scot. Scottish perhaps, never a Scot.

    • Ian

      What ethno-nationalist bilge. He is as Scottish as anybody, as are the immigrants who settle here.

    • Rob Royston

      What, you’re saying a Murray can’t be a Scot? One of our greatest heroes in our glorious past was Sir Andrew Murray who was the joint leader with William Wallace at Stirling Bridge.

      • craig Post author

        Yes Rob it’s very peculiar. My name could be Singh and I could still be a Scot, but as it happens I live in Edinburgh 5 minutes walk from my father’s birthplace and all my paternal ancestors have been Scottish for centuries.

        • Herbie

          I thought the Irish were the Scots.

          And the old west of Scotland.

          You lot are more like Vikings or something.

          Anyway, I think I’ve got a solution.

          The west of Scotland unites with east Antrim, North Down and parts of east Belfast, and you lot reunite with Norway and all the other Skandies.

          Everyone’s happy!

          • morag

            West of Scotland is very much part of Scotland so awa’ with that partition nonsense.

          • Herbie

            Aye, but if you don’t rid yourself of the Viking settlements, they’ll always be nicking and pillaging and stuff, not forming proper communities, running off in their boats hither and thither, you never know where they’re at or what they’re up to.

            Complete menace they are, no matter how nice you’re to them.

            That was the Irish experience, anyway.

            Perhaps you’ll have better luck.

    • Jacobite Malcolm

      Yeah, that’s what I tried to tell him, and got savaged by his groupies.

  • joeblogs

    Mr. Corbyn is controlled opposition. I think it took him by surprise when he became leader of the ‘Labour’ Party; he had to confront the fact that his supporters expect him to consistently maintain his support for Palestinians, but his new ‘owners’ thought otherwise. If he should become PM, he will turn about face completely. They all do.

    As usual, a labour man will be put in the driving seat when the UK crisis comes (putting 2008 in the shade) – and the press can all then dutifully blame ‘socialism’ as the cause.

    All the decisions that led to where the UK is today, were made by men now long since dead. The most fundamental, and most deadly of those decisions was made in 1905, with the start of the Dreadnought arms race against Germany. As a result, we lost millions of brothers, sisters, cousins and parents in two pointless wars and now we’re bankrupt, can’t feed ourselves independently as a nation, and have lost our Empire.

    Nothing, absolutely nothing, not ‘Independence for Scotland’, nor ‘brexit’, nor ‘remain’, can change what is to happen to the UK’s people. The best thing the nation could do would be to turn up at the polling station on election day, and, in full view of the world’s press and TV cameras, light a match and burn their voting cards. Publicly boycott this sham ‘democracy’. Because, as author Alfred Noyes wrote in the preface to his book, ‘The Edge of the Abyss’ (published in 1942): “It would be a terrible tragedy, if the enemy we are fighting (Nazism) were to be foisted on us under another name”. Profoundly prophetic words. This it turns out, is exactly what has happened.
    ———————————————–
    To find an objective history for the causes of WWII, read ‘Unfinished Victory’, by Arthur Bryant. It was published in 1940 so it is downloadable for free, it’s copyright has expired.
    I used DuckDuckGo to find it, using the title and author – G00gle is not the search engine it once was.
    Reading it was a revelation. It shows exactly who started the conflict, and why.
    Advisory: The author tells it like it was – if he attempted to publish today, he would most likely go to prison at worst, or suffer character assassination at best.

    • Sharp Ears

      No need to say it twice. You said exactly the same on the previous thread. 🙂

      I agree with you on the uselessness and futility of the UK voting system.

      • joeblogs

        Sharp –
        It disappeared.
        Like some of my comments mysteriously do.
        Please be patient.

      • joeblogs

        Mathias:
        You obviously did not read what I wrote.
        It is not staying at home and not voting; it is a protest I advocate – a demonstration.
        One only ‘submits’ when one does nothing.
        Ah, well…

  • Loony

    Truly stunning – a sepia tinted view of olde England and its pure of heart socialists and then instant knee bending to the wonders of neo-liberalism.

    Yes Ireland has a higher GDP per capita than Scotland. Could that possibly have something to do with the fact that in July 2016 the Irish Central Statistics Office announced that in 2015 the GDP of Ireland had increased by 26.3%. Do you think that Irish people are suddenly 26.3% wealthier than they thought they were?

    Try to remember that GDP is the one and only economic measure targeted by neo liberal economists. I wonder why that could be

    • Xavi

      Fair point. And even at the peak of its Celtic tiger boom – before the present austerity regime – the ROI ranked second to bottom in OECD league tables for poverty and inequality. Among developed nations, only the US fared worse.

      Through most of the 90s and noughties, Irish government expenditure on social protection as a proportion of GDP was barely half the EU average. That was *before* social expenditure and public services began to be slashed to atone for the sins of the bankers.

      That is not the society dreamed of by James Connolly.

    • Martinned

      Try to remember that GDP is the one and only economic measure targeted by neo liberal economists. I wonder why that could be

      It really isn’t. It’s the only economic measure widely reported in the press. But that’s simply because the press are lazy and economically illiterate.

    • Shatnersrug

      I think all craig is saying is he enjoyed the football. I’m half a Scot half English. I was even born in Essex ?. I was initially hurt to be used as an example of what a good English man is not! But then I realised – craig enjoyed the football. That’s all. It’s been an odd World Cup so far. South American teams have been shockingly average. Germany beaten by Mexico(great!!)

      England play their own tax haven next! I wonder who will win? 5:1 to the tax haven?

  • Gail Gyi

    Yes I did try asking people on Monday for some support for my team, as expected I got dogs abuse. Good job us English independence supporters living here in Scotland have broad shoulders and thick skins
    Some kind Scot sent me this
    “I think it was Winnie Ewing who said something along the lines of – Scotland will finally be seen as a grown up nation – when it can applaud an English victory on the football pitch.” I also knew who Winnie Ewing was when I lived in England – A Legend !

    • Rob Royston

      Sorry about that, but it’s hard being a Scotland football fan these days. When we were something, we used to say, with disdain, that cricket was a game for those who couldn’t play football. Well, things must be bad in Scottish football these days as the national cricket team seem to be the more successful.
      In the fifties our football reporters always referred to England as the “Auld Enemy” so we suffered a severe shock in 1961 when we went into attacking football against an England team with Greaves, Haynes, Charlton and Bobby Smith in their forward line and lost 9-3.
      In 1966, my brother and I and some of our late-teen friends watched the “Auld Enemy” play West Germany in the World Cup final in my uncles house. We were all shocked to see him so obviously support England although we did not say anything at the time.
      Some years later I came home from working in Hamburg and when I went to visit him he told me that he had driven a tank all the way to Hamburg and when they got there the place was already flattened. He was in the Dragoon Guards during the war, and I then understood his affinity with the English as I’m sure their survival depended on looking out for each other.
      Over the years I have been close with English working colleagues, obviously not as close as wartime comrades, which makes it hard for me as an Independence supporter to accept the SNP using the English people’s choice of Brexit as their lever against Westminster.

  • Sheila

    You have encapsulated how I feel. Brought up in Catholic very Irish family. If England played Ireland I supported them much to the chagrin of my husband and children. Love reading your blogs. You asked for regular donations but am pensioner. Could make a one off if it’s possible. Keep tweeting.

  • Republicofscotland

    Well as Scotland never seems to be at the World Cup, this time around I’m supporting Iceland, I’m a sucker for the underdog, and I like the way their fans chant, nothing to do with disliking the England team.

    You’re right of course that Scotland will never achieve its potential whilst it remains shackled to Westminster, and I’ve no doubt that Jeremy Corbyn is attempting to try and do some good at Westminster.

    I wonder what Thomas Paine would make of modern day England’s government and its policies? Would he call for a revolution?

  • Paul Miller

    If anyone wants to support England at the World Cup they are quite entitled to do so. If you do not want to, again that is your right. We must be unique in that people are ‘vilified’ for not supporting another country at a sporting event.

    The vast majority I speak to don’t support them out of some hatred of the English but rather due to a sporting rivalry. Allied to this is the great English media and commentators and it makes success for the English pretty unbearable.

    • Jo Dominich

      Hi Paul, I totally agree about the English media and commentators being so over the top and overtly biased it often ruins watching the game and the result. I support Scotland in the Rugby being half Scottish and Uruguay in the World Cup having friends there and having spent 5 very happy years there.

      • glenn_nl

        It’s quite remarkable. I mean, you wouldn’t expect to find the commentators in (say) Mexico, Brazil or Argentina speaking with any enthusiasm when it concerns their own country’s teams.

        • Paul Miller

          Of course they should be enthusiastic. Listening to it though for the rUK is painful. I suppose it is the price we pay for not having our own TV stations.

        • Jo Dominich

          The commentary is far different to our own – it is more objective, based on the actual game being played and enthusiastic for the game of football – it is not really partisan in the way our commentary is.

  • reel guid

    How is not enthusing about a neighbouring country’s football team an act of ill will? For that matter, there would be plenty of English MPs mawkishly cheering on Scotland if our team had qualified for the Finals. The same MPs who voted or abstained to remove democracy from Scotland last week.

  • Ewen Morrison

    Dear, Craig, I’m one of your followers and also delighted to read: ‘There Is An Other England’. Please accept my congratulations for writing that article, because not everyone can explain why they follow your philosophies, so it can’t be bad to be as clear as your piece clearly is!

    Moran taing! (Many thanks!)

    Ewen

    • Sharp Ears

      I second that Ewen Morrison.

      The paragraph about Jeremy Corbyn chimed with me.

      This was retweeted by Medialens.

      Jeremy Corbyn‏Verified account @jeremycorbyn · 23 hours ago
      It’s tragic and shocking to see innocent children caged like animals at US migrant camps and to hear their cries of anguish after being forcibly separated from their parents.

      It’s immoral and goes against fundamental human rights we must always respect, no matter the situation.’

      https://twitter.com/jeremycorbyn/status/1009053250983776256
      :

      • Jo Dominich

        Hey ho Sharp Ears, great tweet from Corbyn – on a day the wretched, fascist, neo-con USA decided to leave the UN Human Rights Council because of its alleged ‘chronic bias against Israel’. Good Ol’ Cruella de Ville strikes again. I find myself actually hoping that the USA might leave the UN for good!!

  • alan leishman

    is that not the same people who’s representative mp stood in the english parliament and thanked the snp for giving them the time to watch their team playing then when the game finished without having heard a word of the debate came back to outvote them as they allways do craig? fuck harry kane and the whole team hope they lose evert game

  • Bill McLean

    Our detractors will always try to make much of our supposed hatred of the English and particularly the England football team. As usual their reasoning is twisted and hypocritical. I care little for football anywhere but I do know that everyone’s most “hated” opponent in the game is ALWAYS one of the nearest neighbours! Childish but true! One thing that has caused me passing interest is why England, one of the world’s biggest football nations, have not hosted the world cup since 1966 ?????

    • Andyoldlabour

      Why do you regard England as “one of the world’s biggest football nations”, because not many people do. There are any number of South American countries who are more passionate about football than we are. Only sixteen nations have hosted the World Cup since it first started in 1930.
      Maybe you should be asking why a country such as Qatar will be hosting it in 2022, or the even more ridiculous USA/Mexico/Canada hosting in 2026.

      • Jo Dominich

        Hi Anyoldlabour, I seem to recall in the very recent past that the Orange One threatened countries who did not vote for supporting the USA bid to host the World Cup with financial sanctions (seems to be Trump’s response to everything these days). I strongly suspect that might have had an impact on the ridiculous USA/Mexico/Canada fiasco. For Goodness sake, how’s that going to work with the Orange One’s deeply insulting comments about Trudeau and Mexico?

        • Andyoldlabour

          I did wonder about that Jo, and to be honest until the draw took place last week I was not even aware that there were only two possibilities – Morocco or the US/Canada/Mexico bids.
          So, when the triple whammy bid won through I was amazed.
          I suggested on another forum, that they may rename football – “The Texas Wall Game”
          It is an absolutely absurd situation.
          If it happens, then it will be the second time the US has hosted the World Cup – incredible that football or “soccer” as they refer to the game is about number five or six on their list, maybe further down,

          Invading other countries
          Regime change
          Gridiron football
          Baseball
          Basketball
          Ice Hockey
          NASCAR
          Shooting animals
          Shooting other humans
          Football

      • Bill McLean

        Andyoldlabour – not interested in football but your strange non-reply was very telling! Is it not true that only about 10 nations have ever won the football world cup? Is it not true that England are always, again relying upon memory, always in the top 10 of the ratings? And if the English are not passionate about football why is it reported upon constantly in the media almost as a matter of life and death – OK my subjective, non-football loving, opinion! I ask again why has England never hosted the world cup since 1966? Keep calm!
        Just interested!

        • Herbie

          “And if the English are not passionate about football why is it reported upon constantly in the media almost as a matter of life and death”

          That’s media telling you that.

          Their function is to construct your world view.

          Your function is to inhabit it.

          And buy those expensive ever-changing strips for the da, the ma, their da and ma, all the kids, and the dog.

          Used to be they paid for the upkeep of slaves. Now the slaves pay bed and board, and everything else, and fund the slave master’s life of luxury.

          Good trick that, you’d have to say.

        • Andyoldlabour

          “I ask again why has England never hosted the world cup since 1966?”

          I am quite calm Bill, you would seem to be acting like a bit of a terrier. This is the 13th World Cup since 1966 (If I have got my maths correct), so it makes sense that there are more than 13 countries in the World. Therefore FIFA have to share them around a bit, not withstanding that money talks.
          You also seem to be taken in completely by the media hype. I live in a large village in the South of England, just the sort of place where you would expect to find strong England support, but as I look out of my window, there are no signs, no flags and no fuss.
          On a personal level, I have always been more interested in golf, cycling, badminton and athletics than football.

          • Bill McLean

            Not taken in by media hype at all and I don’t care where you live or how many flags you can count or not. I asked a simple question of people who appear to be interested in football and all I get is silliness in response. Why do you feel you have to deny England’s importance in the football world – the media seem to think they are. Let me be terrier like again – given the important status England holds in world football why have they never been awarded host of the world cup finals again? Surely they have applied to be hosts!! Maybe not. I’m not interested in the game but the cause and effect sport has on world politics and vice versa – thought you would have deduced that.

  • Sharp Ears

    World Cup Football. A game played by millionaires under the control of a corrupt organisation based in Switzerland, is the opium for the masses.

    I heard that Sepp Blatter turned up in Russia yesterday. Pure chutzpah.

    • Ian

      It’s so easy to be cynical about everything. But pointless. Just because FIFA is a corrupt organisation doesn’t mean the World Cup isn’t a great occasion. I am thoroughly enjoying it , because i don’t have binary views about everything. It means a lot to a huge amount of people, who will safely and rightly disregard such bleating.

  • Iain Orr

    “MacTavish” at 10.42 would be advised in her/his own interests not to cultivate the use of “-ish” as a derogatory suffix. The various usages of Scot/Scotsman/Scottish/Scotch depend on context and whether we are talking about people, rounds of shortbread, whisky, salmon, porridge, newspapers etc. It’s all part of the Caledonian antizygyny.

    However, I’ll take the risk of assuming that such exclusive nationalism is far more likely to be from an angry prejudiced Scotsman than a sensible catholic Scotswoman.

    • Herbie

      “The various usages of Scot/Scotsman/Scottish/Scotch depend on context and whether we are talking about people, rounds of shortbread, whisky, salmon, porridge, newspapers etc.”

      Yeah, that’s it.

      Today.

      There has to be some reason why the more definitive early medieval use of the term fell into such Jouissance.

      An Enlightenment play, perhaps.

      Or was it earlier?

    • Martinned

      Why not link to Amnesty’s own story? It’s not like it disagrees with what you linked…

      https://www.amnesty.org/en/latest/news/2018/06/syria-raqqa-in-ruins-and-civilians-devastated-after-us-led-war-of-annihilation/

      Although, for the record, the key paragraph in Amnesty’s story says:

      “IS’s brutal four-year rule in Raqqa was rife with war crimes. But the violations of IS, including the use of civilians as human shields, do not relieve the Coalition of their obligations to take all feasible precautions to minimize harm to civilians. What levelled the city and killed and injured so many civilians was the US-led Coalition’s repeated use of explosive weapons in populated areas where they knew civilians were trapped. Even precision weapons are only as precise as their choice of targets.”

      Whether that is a correct interpretation of the ius in bello is tricky to say. The Yugoslavia Tribunal convicted the defendant Croatian generals in Gotovina et al. for a lack of discrimination in the Trial Chamber, but that verdict was overturned on appeal. So the law in this area is a bit muddled.

      • Paul Barbara

        @ Martinned June 20, 2018 at 14:54
        Yet how the MSM howled over what would happen in Syria’s liberation of Aleppo, yet didn’t go in afterwards to record the scenes of dancing in the streets of the liberated people, and record there testimonies.
        Just like the FUKUS walked out when Russia hosted an International meeting where survivors of the so-called ‘CW attack’ (White Helmet hoax) told what really happened. Was the MSM interested in the survivors’ testimony? Not a bit of it!
        What they are doing in Syria is what is now accepted as total lies with Iraq’s non-existent WMD, except the Western-backed ‘White Helmets’ provide real chlorine and other substances for their CW ‘attacks’ and ‘hoaxes’, which they dutifully blame on Assad.
        How cretinous of the Western public to largely lap their transparent lies up like Gospel.

    • Martinned

      …and, realistically, because it’s too dangerous to send people down there and, realistically, because UK newspaper readers and TV viewers don’t care as much if the victims aren’t white.

      • Herbie

        They cared about Vietnam.

        Lots of media. Lots of protesters.

        And Iraq.

        There were millions on the streets.

    • Paul Barbara

      @ Jack June 20, 2018 at 12:07
      ‘..And mainstream media doesn’t have this story plastered at the top of the hour because it’s too busy hyper-ventilating over Trump & Kim Jong-Un sitting down for talks…’
      And lying about Assad using CW’s, and Russia being responsible for the Salisbury/Skripals UK False Flag hoax.

  • Trowbridge H. Ford

    There is always a third way – may the better team win.

    I sometimes see a better US team, and U am brought over when the USA wins. It didn’t even make the WC this time so there no dilemma now.

    Am more in favor of the 200 US sailors in the USS Puffer and USS Batfish when the US Navy made them look like Soviet intruders in the Harsfjarden incident in September 1982, resulting in their murders.

    I am for for the Russians, Portuguese, and Mexicans now in the WorldCup and the Yanks down the WC,

    • Jo Dominich

      Trowbridge, interesting comment. I am hoping that Russia go deep into the competition and am with Uruguay and/or any other South American Country.

      • Trowbridge H. Ford

        Glad to see someone interested in the dirty tricks the Yanks have engagedh in when the Russians are involved.

        My correction of what the Pentagon has resorted to after crazy Ronnie ordered the two sunken subs to be found, claiming that the USS Thresher and USS Scorpion were still missing when they had been found years before he made the assignment, not being made by the BBC and The Telegraph is just par for the police world we survive in.

        Will applaud if your conclusion to the WC succeeds.

    • pete

      Re the Harsfjarden incident, Wikipedia is useless on the subject, but does refer to a souce, namely Ola Tunander’s book The Secret War against Sweden, there is a google link to the introduction to the book at https://books.google.be/books?id=cN-ETroO0zEC&pg=PR13&redir_esc=y#v=onepage&q&f=false
      the forward summarised Tunander’s arguments regarding the incident and I believe this relates well to the case for thinking that governments lie to as a matter of routine regarding such matters.

      I have no opinion regarding the world cup.

  • jazza

    Yet more projected abuse from the foul nicky haley as amereeka withdraws from the UN human rights committee – the usa is the world’s largest abuser of human rights and withdraws in support of isreel – now we definitely know where the boundaries are – amereeka and isreel can go f**k themselves

    • Trowbridge H. Ford

      It’s called the Mediterranean Dialogue, jazza. She has brought non violent me over to punching her in the snout if I ever get the chance.

      • Jo Dominich

        Trowbridge – I’ll either assist you by holding her down or join you!!

        • Trowbridge H. Ford

          Thanks, Jo, I’ll probably need it, knowing how weak I am. Have trouble hitting anything.

      • Paul Barbara

        @ Martinned June 20, 2018 at 14:47
        Highest per capita incarceration (often for drug ‘offenses’ with the very drugs the CIA brings in); highest per capita killing of unarmed people on the streets by police officers (I’m just guessing on that one – I’ll accept correction on that from reliable sources); the most deaths and injuries from unprovoked wars and interventions for ‘Regime Change’ (they surely count as Human Rights Abuses) and assisting others (Saudis, I**aelis and assorted Military Juntas – Latin American, Indonesian, African)) imprison, torture and kill millions of their citizens; Guantanamo, Abu Ghraib, Bagram, hundreds of CIA ‘Black Sites’; and separating and penning up children away from their parents on the southern border, people that are largely fleeing horrendous violence in Honduras, El Salvador and Guatemala which the US caused by years of assisting and supporting brutal Military Juntas).
        And now Syria and Russia have accused the FUKUS of preparing another CW False Flag attack/hoax via their White Helmets group.
        Yep, the US (and it’s cronies) win hands down on death and destruction. tearing apart the lives of the millions who aren;t actually killed in their aggressions.

  • Sharp Ears

    Has Theresa May yet condemned Trump’s outraegous action in holding children in cages on the Mexican border? Is she still welcoming him here later in the Summer? Will Her Maj have to shake his hand?

  • TFS

    So Scotland want to stay in the EU.

    Is that because it wants access to all that nice Ponziopoly money the EU keeps printing?

    • Ian

      Craig points out the better economic performance of Ireland. Much of that has to do with the benefits of being in the EU, for which they have overwhelming support from their population.

    • Martinned

      Don’t worry, you can put all your savings in Bitcoin and then you won’t be dependent on those crooked central bankers who are slaves to neoliberalism…

  • MM

    Yes, there is another England but it’s not here in the present, and probably hasn’t been in my lifetime. As a British woman with an English father and a Jamaican mother, I am repulsed by England, its racism and fascism, its warmongering and cruelty. Winning the football would only exacerbate the grotesque feeling of superiority the English mostly feel.

    Therefore I am an ABE person, any country, preferably not European, but England.

    My Irish partner feels the same for obvious reasons.

    • Old Mark

      As a British woman with an English father and a Jamaican mother, I am repulsed by England, its racism and fascism, its warmongering and cruelty.

      MM- Are you still living here, or over in Ireland with your partner ? If the former I hereby award you Linton Kwesi Johnson award for rank hypocrisy

      (For those readers unfamiliar with the LK Johnson name, he’s the Jamaican immigrant rap poet who penned ‘Inglan’ is a bitch’ back in the 1970s. From recollection he still lives here and shows no sign of returning to his beloved Caribbean homeland).

  • reel guid

    Alan Sugar has tweeted that he recognises some of the Senegal football team as guys selling sunglasses and handbags on Marbella beach. He even photo shopped bags and glasses in front of the Senegal team picture.

    Another great advert for the unelected, unaccountable, ÂŁ300 quid a day House of Lords.

    • Jo Dominich

      Reel guid – what a great result for Senegal though – I hope, like Cameroon before them, they go further into the tournament – bringing vivacity, warmth and good cheer!

  • CameronB Brodie

    I also feel that the independence movement is part of the ongoing global movment of decolonisation.

    Looney
    I’m no Brain of Britain and only have an ordinary degree, so I’m a little at a loss to pinpoint where I was extolling folk to hold the English in contempt. I’m also at a loss as to how you are able to be so certain that ““concrete utopianism”” should be feared, when you apparently didn’t understands a word of my post. Critical Discourse Analysis is an essential tool for the understanding of power. Critical realism is philosophy that originates in the physical sciences and provides the meta-theoretical framework for the social sciences. It has absolutely no connection to “genocide and death”. Perhaps you’re simply a British nationalist bigot who fear science?

  • Vronsky

    Although Scots born, I spent part of my early life in England – Cheshire – and have many happy memories of the place and the people. I started school there (C of E!) and on a recent return visit to my old school saw my name in the roll from more than sixty years ago. I find the England I remember very hard to reconcile with what I see there today. Scottish independence might awaken them to their predicament, or it might force them further into the hands of the wrong people. Let’s hope the real hearts of oak soon re-assert themselves.

    • Andyoldlabour

      Vronsky, when I was six, my folks moved from the South of England to Bolton in Lancashire, where I spent the happiest years of my young life.
      When I was ten (great time to move for a child coming up to the all important 11 plus) my folks moved down South to Kent, and for the next six years I was bullied every day by various people, simply for my accent, my ginger hair and a slight physical abnormality.
      The South is definitely less hospitable and welcoming than the North.

  • Richard Gadsden

    Ireland’s population will in the next decade overtake Scotland’s for the first time in centuries

    This is, at best, exaggerated, and at worst simply wrong.

    The population of Ireland was higher than that of Scotland in every nineteenth century census (ie from 1821 to 1891), and had already caught back up before the end of the twentieth century. Ireland as a whole was only behind Scotland in the 1901-1981 censuses – by 1991, the 32 counties of Ireland had more people than Scotland.

    Even if you’re only counting the 26 counties of the modern Republic, the 1881 census and all preceding ones show more people than Scotland: hardly “centuries” ago, but barely more than one.

    Ireland is somewhat bigger and considerably more fertile (because less mountainous) than Scotland, so it is hardly surprising that its population has usually been larger. Before the Famine, the 1841 census is of an Ireland with more than three times the population of its contemporary Scotland – double was more typical of the pre-potato mediaeval era, but there’s no point in recorded history that Scots outnumbered Irish until 1901.

  • Vivian O'Blivion

    As the only team with a squad exclusively drawn from its domestic league, there are good reasons to give your support to England. The tone and content of TV commentary and press coverage can be hard to take, but rise above it.
    As for Craig’s status, if he lives in Scotland and considers himself Scottish then there is nothing to say. It is my suspicion that posters of the Ultra Nat persuasion may be Unionist false flags in the Hasbara tradition of creating anti-semitism where none exists. If my suspicions are misplaced then they’re just baw bags.

  • Stuart

    I agree – there is another England…
    “So here’s two cheers for a place called England
    Sore abused but not yet dead
    A Mr. Harding sort of England
    Hanging in there by a thread

    Here’s two cheers for the crazy Diggers
    Now their hour has come around
    We shall plant the seed they saved us
    Common wealth and common ground”

  • Phil Thompson

    All for independence and the break up of “Great Britain” would be progressive. But let’s get history right. Since when was Scotland a colony? Ireland yes. The Union benefited a considerable layer of Scots, including many who made a fortune out of the slavery. Scottish independence has grown as empire disintegrated and the UK economy declined in relation to the rest of Europe. Recently Scotland has been done to badly in terms of UK democracy and is more social democratic in nature than its, increasingly dysfunctional, larger neighbour.
    I don’t think you mean Scotland has been as badly done to as Ireland?

    • JOML

      Hi Phil, are you aware of the origins of Fort William, Fort Augustus and Fort George? Try ethnic cleansing or worse.

  • Rhys Jaggar

    Those Scots who have lived and worked in the North of England will find the issues they have with London is not in fact due to nationality, unless Geordie, Lancastrian, Cumbrian and Yorkie are also not English. They are due to insular, arrogant superiority atttudes of London.

    If you look at infrastructure investment, the north of England does supremely badly. If you look at control of finance, it is overwhelmingly in the hands of London.

    I have long said that all pensioners of Northerners should be held in pension funds based not in London but in the North of England. That way, it is more likely that investments will benefit the North, not London.

    I have long believed that the percentage of taxation spent on uniquely local projects should be administered locally, limiting national policy to national infrastructure (like HSR, motorways etc), defence and foreign diplomacy. I strongly believe any Central Bank should be prohibited from existing in the City of London, as there it is not accountable. I would relocate it to Manchester or Leeds.

    I have often wondered whether Scots would consider a nation of Scotland plus Northern England, with a population of around 30’million, to be an economically coherent cell?

    I doubt they could consider it a nation, but they would find friends with a common enemy!

    • Mark Carroll

      Good comments and I support your sentiment entirely. As a Scot, brought up in the industrial wastelands of Fife, I have great sympathy with the economic plight of the industrial heartlands and mining regions of the north of England and Wales. It is therefore without irony that, as a proud Scott, I identify more with the working class of these regions those inhabitants of rural Scotland (having grown up through an era of heavy industry eradication of and vanishing job opportunities). I now live in Houston (USA) and am simply one of an innumerable number of energetic Scotts that left their county of their birth in search of a better life.
      So, like Craig, I have no anti English sentiment in my desire for an independent Scotland; I would be just as happy for the Scotland, along with any other part of the UK that has suffered from the centuries of subordination and plunder that emanates from the privileged and privately educated class that habitually control the reins of power and infest British politics, to unite against them.
      I just can’t however get behind the SNP, or Craig’s socialist sympathies. Scotland is historically a poor country, and without the economies of scale that come from being part of a larger trading block – whether it be the UK, Europe, or a hybrid of Scotland, North of England and Wales – Scotland’s economy will likely contract if independence is achieved. That is not to say independence should not be sought, but let’s have our eyes open and have an honest debate; but more socialism, welfare, and immigration will not gain my vote. An independent Scotland holding out an invitation to the North of England and Wales to join – and I’m there.

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