Dawn Sturgess 995

The terrible death of Dawn Sturgess casts a new shadow over the Salisbury Affair. Dawn appears to have been a popular and well grounded woman with close friend and family ties, whose life had taken a downward turn before being cruelly ended.

The illogical, inconsistent and shifting government narrative over events in Salisbury and Amesbury had appeared so ludicrous as to be tragi-comic. Any sense of amusement is now abruptly dispelled. But less us take a serious and sober look at the government case.

Savid Javid stated today:

We know back in March that it was the Russians. We know it was a barbaric, inhuman act by the Russian state. Again, for this particular incident, we need to learn more and let the police do their work.

Actually, we know no such thing and, contrary to Javid’s deliberate insinuation, the police have adduced no evidence that it was the Russian state.

The media appear to have entirely excluded from the narrative that Porton Down specifically stated that they cannot determine the origin of the poison that attacked the Skripals. Nor has the OPCW. There are scores of both state and non-state actors who could have produced the nerve agent. No evidence has been produced as to the physical person who allegedly administered the poison. In short, nothing so far has been shown which would lead any reasonable person to conclude a case against the Russian state was proven.

I believe this following is the government narrative currently. I hope I am not mistating it:

Russia has a decade long secret programme of producing and stockpiling novichok nerve agents. It also has been training agents in secret assassination techniques, and British intelligence has a copy of the Russian training manual, which includes instruction on painting nerve agent on doorknobs. The Russians chose to use this assassination programme to target Sergei Skripal, a double agent who had been released from jail in Russia some eight years previously.

Only the Russians can make novichok and only the Russians had a motive to attack the Skripals.

The Russians had been tapping the phone of Yulia Skripal. They decided to attack Sergei Skripal while his daughter was visiting from Moscow. Their trained assassin(s) painted a novichok on the doorknob of the Skripal house in the suburbs of Salisbury. Either before or after the attack, they entered a public place in the centre of Salisbury and left a sealed container of the novichok there.

The Skripals both touched the doorknob and both functioned perfectly normally for at least five hours, even able to eat and drink heartily. Then they were simultaneously and instantaneously struck down by the nerve agent, at a spot in the city centre coincidentally close to where the assassins left a sealed container of the novichok lying around. Even though the nerve agent was eight times more deadly than Sarin or VX, it did not kill the Skripals because it had been on the doorknob and affected by rain.

Detective Sergeant Bailey attended the Skripal house and was also poisoned by the doorknb, but more lightly. None of the other police who attended the house were affected.

Four months later, Charlie Rowley and Dawn Sturgess were rooting about in public parks, possibly looking for cigarette butts, and accidentally came into contact with the sealed container of a novichok. They were poisoned and Dawn Sturgess subsequently died.

I am going to leave you to mull over that story yourselves for a while. I believe it is a fair statement of the British government narrative. I also believe almost (but not quite) every single sentence is very obviously untrue. I hope tomorrow to publish a detailed analysis explaining why that is, but want you to look at it yourselves first.

One final thought. I trust that Dawn Sturgess will get a proper and full public inquest in accordance with normal legal process, something which was denied to David Kelly. I suspect that is something the government will seek to delay as long as possible, even indefinitely.

995 thoughts on “Dawn Sturgess

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  • Republicofscotland

    So punch drunk Gary Lineker, is pulling £1.7 million pounds in wages from the BBC. Lineker, who in my opinion can’t string two sentences together, is one of the government ran, top earners at the state broadcaster.

    Other mediocre presenters are also being paid hundreds of thousands of pounds of licence fee payers monies.

    Only the parasitical royals and the HoL troughers top this lot.

    • Sharp Ears

      Quite interesting to see how Huw Edwards dealt with in on the Six O’clock News. He didn’t refer to his own position in the list, ie. number 5 and kept a straight face. They diverted to the gender pay gap. Some hopes.

      Edwards now on £520,000-£529,999. Last year he was paid £550,000-£599,999. How noble.

      This is a longer list than the one published earlier. https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/entertainment-arts-44792074 2 hrs ago.

  • Hatuey

    Where others on here seem to have so many answers, I have nothing but questions. As you can imagine, i didn’t do so well at school…

    Qs) after all the months that people on here have been discussing this Skripal / Novichok affair, in the literally millions of words that have been invested by all you so very clever people, are we any clearer on anything? Are we any closer to the truth? Do any of you know who is responsible and have any hard evidence to support your case?

    Let’s go further — can anyone point to one way in which any of you, or society as a whole, has benefitted from these discussions? Have any of you altered your lives or beliefs, or has your grasp of the world been enhanced or evolved in any way, on the basis of what you have read on here?

    I’m sure we can all agree it’s been entertaining on a certain level. Is that all we can say?

    • Patrick Mahony

      Why are you looking/commenting on this blog? It would seem to be the antithesis of your beliefs. You pretend to believe we should all be devoting our time to something you define as useful. If you weren’t clogging up one of the few outlets of independent thought on the matter we would have more time. And so would you.

    • MaryPaul

      So our discussions here do not pass some personal criteria you have about what constitutes a useful discussion? Surely you must have friends with views in common with you you can talk to? Why are you not talking to them,instead of coming on here to berate us?

      • Hatuey

        Strange. Everything you say here assumes some answers to my questions but you don’t share those answers with us. It’s boggling, you seem to attribute your answers, which we haven’t seen, to me.


    • james

      and that is why you post here so frequently? you are a lousy comedian and an even worse sleuth!

      • Hatuey

        I don’t post here frequently. And I have no idea what you mean by comedian and sleuth.

        None of that matters though.

        I’m simply asking a group of people what they have to show for the thousands of hours of they have invested in this subject.

        • MightyDrunken

          “I’m simply asking a group of people what they have to show for the thousands of hours of they have invested in this subject.”


        • bj

          I don’t post here frequently.

          Except when you did.

          Come come. This is the internet.
          Not twitter where people can delete their silly contributions.

    • Ross

      Hi Hatuey, you are of course correct, nobody really knows anything. I do think society benefits in a small way from discussions such as these. The more people who question the establishment narrative on everything, the better off we might be in the future.

      I think you would admit the many whistleblowers, media critics, honest journalists and even, in this day and age, independent online investigators, help to throw some light on corporate, government and personal misdeeds.

      There is a very definite possibilty that by discussing the many intricacies of cases such as these may uncover the bigger truth. We learn a little from each other. It may all be bollocks, but it may not.

    • Igor P.P.

      I think we are closer to the truth because we are further away from the lie that the UK goverment wants us to believe.

  • Rocky

    [ MOD: Caught in spam-filter ]

    So, if I remember the pictures correctly, the police had the park in Salisbury roped off, with people in Hazmat suits roaming around it. I’d presume the police painstakingly searched that park inch by inch searching for evidence connecting evil Russians to the Skirpal attack. I understand that the UK police brought in a moose and a squirrel as consulting experts on the evil acts of Boris and Natasha.

    And yet, after all this roping off and searching there was a ‘contaminated container’ of Novachuk left lying around? Oops, missed it.

  • DiggerUK

    As one does when preparing for a World Cup semi final, I went to YouTube and looked up the proper way to mix organophosphate pesticides for agricultural use.
    As everyone here knows by now, Novichoks are a group of organophosphate nerve agents, the same type of chemical compound developed by all those involved in agricultural pesticides, which are also organophosphates. They are as common as minimum wage labour in the countryside.
    It is a detailed video of how to dress and operate. I urge you to spend the time it takes to watch. It is shorter than half time, so spare yourself the millionaire gobfest and click at the end of the first half…_


  • Sharp Ears

    New post please Craig even if it’s about the weather prospects for DTRH in Cardross. Hope all goes well and that the attendance is good.

  • Good In Parts


    “are we any clearer on anything? Are we any closer to the truth?”

    Bit early to say on this particular issue, events are still unfolding.

    However over on the Al Hilli thread the conspiracy theorists have (mostly) moved on and you can read a timeline that is more reliable than anything published in the french media.


    And yes, it was a feelthy frenchman wot dun it.

    The new prosecutor now even conceeds that the murders were carried out by a local who lives ‘close’ to the end of the lake but somehow les gendarmes are unable to find him.

    • Radar O’Reilly

      Yes, I agree with you that there is space to discuss the minutiae of these ‘events’

      A couple of points from me, in defence of the British nation, from presumably the external forces that have now killed.

      A) both of the ‘starichok’ incidents happened at the weekend. This reminded me of my work in the seventies at a UK defence establishment, where from day-to-day we protected the British isles from the endemic Soviet threat. 5-days a week. At the weekend we relaxed. Unless there was a special forces secret project, in which case a handful of us would go in all day SATURDAY and do the squirrely things, for short strong guys. God knows what the establishment got up to on SUNDAYS!
      Who worked at PD at the w/e recently?

      B) Amesbury, UK’s Area 51?, CIA squirrels everywhere?? – claims old news

      Worth discussing, over a beer.

    • MaryPaul

      Assuming Charlie can remember what might have contained the novichok, I shall be very surprised if we get told anything more than an “official” version, if that. Still will be interesting to see what the authorities come up with next..

      • Jack


        Also his views are now very influenced by what the police say and tell him.
        I guess they will keep spinning the he-perhaps-might-possibly-have-found-a-container and this-might-possibly-bla-bla be the reason why he ended up being poisoned. That is, no one really know what happend.

        • Igor P.P.

          I wonder why media keeps repeating that there is “no forensic evidence” of connection with Skripals. Most of their assumptions are made without evidence, yet this is one that is always mentioned. I’m starting to suspect that this is because no forensic evidence exists that Amesbury poison was a Novichok at all, and they are safeguarding their position against potential inquiry. According to police victims tested positively for “nerve agent Novichok”. Were any direct quotes from Porton Down scientists or a reports regarding Amesbury ever published?

  • Tatyana

    Groatia-England begins in 3 minutes )))
    40 per cent Russians for England,
    17 for Groatia,
    the rest are not interested in the match
    And it is not betting, it is about wishing victory, ‘my za vas boleem’

    • bj

      Game over.

      After the match, the English team stood in grace.

      But there was disgrace.

      They stood alone, without any Royalty, without any government representation.
      They were lone and they lost.

      Yet they keep on singing ‘God save the Queen’.

      • Antonyl

        That’s why they lost: zero support from their Establishment, including the Royalty.

        • Rod

          Royalty don’t ‘do’ field sports like football, they’re more inclined to polo and grouse shooting.

      • Tatyana

        bj, they didn’t loose, they just were overrunned by stronger and more skilled team. I wish England had more support and more luck, but let’s be honest – Groatia plays better.
        Though I didn’t like at all the agressive style. Is it OK? Players fell on the grass every here and there.

      • Andyoldlabour

        BJ, that is very true and I agree, a total disgrace. The England team, the FA refused to bow to undue pressure from the politicians and establishment, as did our athletes in 1980 at the Moscow Olympics.
        I cringe when I hear them singing the anthem – words fail me.

      • Michael McNulty

        The Remoaners could tell FIFA we’re not leaving. They only won by one goal, that ain’t decisive, and some of the crowd were booing. They may demand a rematch which they’ll rig though they’re still not assured of winning it, after which they’ll want the best of three.

  • SA

    So UK in the final and no senior UK politicians or Royal Family representatives? This may lead to the long awaited revolution.

  • Sharp Ears

    What a match. The tennis that is. Nadal came through against Del Potro. A 5 setter which lasted just under 5 hours.

  • Sharp Ears

    A legacy of WW11 we are told.

    11 Jul 2018
    ‘Traces of a chemical warfare agent were found in shrimp caught near the Swedish island of Maseskar, where 28 ships with chemical and other weapons were sunk by the allies after World War II, the Swedish National Water Agency said.

    “We’re talking about a very low concentration [of chemicals], which isn’t considered dangerous for consumers, but these are substances that shouldn’t be present in the marine environment,” National Water Agency expert Fredrik Lindgren said, in a statement published by the organization’s website. “This is especially serious” due to the intense fishing in the area, he cautioned.
    The substance, identified as diphenylchlorarsine, is likely leaking into the water from decaying bombs aboard the sunken ships, the agency said. The chemical was dubbed CLARK 2 (Chlor-Arsen-Kampfstoff 2) by the Germans, who invented it in 1918. It attacks mucous membranes and lungs, causing sneezing, coughing, headache and vomiting in humans.

    Last year, low quantities of diphenylchlorarsine (<1.3 ng/g) were also found in measurements taken from flounder and Norwegian lobsters near the Maseskar island.

    Swedish scientists are now warning that traces of the poisonous substance may also be present in Baltic Sea fish, saying that they are planning to expand their research into the matter.


  • LenkaPenka

    ‘The Met Police’s assistant commissioner for specialist operations told a meeting in Amesbury that officers were working on the theory that Ms Sturgess and Mr Rowley had found a container housing Novichok.’

    Do they not realize how absurd that statement sounds?

    Truth is often stranger than fiction but this one is straight out of la-la land. Do they think people are complete fools?

      • giyane

        Somebody chucked an empty phial over a bridge and a troll with an incredibly minute penis used it to have a pee.

    • bj

      The use of ‘housing’ sounds funny.
      But then I ain’t no Brit.

      The OPCW corrected its misstated amount of novichok from 100 g to 100 mg (a factor of one thousand),
      whereas the MET police now –seemingly discontented– scaled it back up by a magnitude of a 1000 (“a container
      housing Novichok”).

      Can’t these guys get there stories together?

      My money’s on the OPCW giving in.

  • john_a

    Hopefully this English transcript of a news report from the German public broadcasting service on 7th June will be of interest to those who are following the Skripal case.

    Fall Skripal – Berlin hat bis heute keine Beweise aus London
    The Skripal Case – Until today Berlin has no evidence from London
    07.06.2018 | 3 Min. | Source: Deutschlandfunk
    Author: Götschenberg, Michael
    Programme: Informationen am Mittag

    Until today the German Federal Government has been waiting in vain: As RBB Radio has learned from government circles, until today the British Government has presented absolutely no evidence to the Federal Government that would prove that Russia is responsible for the poison attack on the double-agent Sergei Skripal and his daughter. The Federal Government reported this yesterday to the Parliamentary Control Committee of the German Federal Parliament in a closed session. Up till now it has simply been learned that the poison concerned was Novichok, a chemical weapon that was produced in the Soviet Union. Beyond this the British Government has so far presented absolutely no evidence. It could neither prove that the poison used came from Russia, nor that the Kremlin was responsible for the attack, it was reported.

    According to RBB information, the German intelligence services also have no information from their own sources that would permit such conclusions.

    After Yulia Skripal, her father Sergei has also now left the hospital. In recent days, Yulia Skripal made a brief statement before the cameras in Great Britain.[A SHORT EXCERPT IN RUSSIAN IS HEARD.] She said that she still found it hard to believe that she and her father were attacked in this way, and that their recovery had been slow and painful. The doctors in the hospital in Salisbury said that the Skripals’ recovery bordered on a miracle; it had really been assumed that they would not survive.

    The Skripal case led to a dramatic deterioration in diplomatic relations between Russia and numerous western countries. After the British Government had declared that it was convinced that Russia was responsible for the poison attack on Skripal and his daughter, over 140 Russian diplomats were expelled from a total of 26 European countries, the USA and NATO, an event that was unique in its scale. Germany also participated, and expelled four Russian diplomats. In return, Russia expelled the same number of diplomats from the countries concerned.

    NDR, WDR, Süddeutsche Zeitung and Die Zeit had reported that in the 1990s a Russian scientist had offered a sample of Novichok to the [German] Federal Intelligence Service [BND]. Since then it is known that the nerve poison was exported from Russia, at least to the West. It is not clear where else it might possibly have found its way to.

    The conduct of the British Government is increasingly putting the German Federal Government in a position where it is difficult to explain itself. Beyond the fact that the poison has been identified as Novichok, there is no trail that leads to Russia, let alone to the Kremlin. The decision to participate in the expulsion of Russian diplomats therefore appears more than questionable.

  • bj

    “Germany is captive of Russia because it is getting so much of its energy from Russia. They pay billions of dollars to Russia and we have to defend them against Russia,”

    Can’t argue with that.
    Only thing is — my solution to that contradiction would be to terminate NATO.

      • Robyn

        Agreed, bj, the Robert (not Paul) Scheer article is well worth a read.

        Interesting, too, to see Chomsky’s signature. Chomsky is obviously open to the idea that Russia interfered in the US election – wonder where he’s getting his ‘news’ these days.

        • SA

          The gist of the letter is that the system is open to hacking by anybody and is not immune from manipulation and disenfranchisement if electorate. The major part of the letter is about lessening the risk of nuclear war between US and Russia.

          • bj

            Yes, I agree that the gist of the letter is correct.

            But I also agree with Scheer’s annotation.

            I think the annotation couldn’t have come with or within the letter, as that would have made it less neutral and therefore less palatable to a large group of people. This way its reach is maximized.

    • Antonyl

      And Russia is defending the EU from PR China.
      The old Mongol maps are now used to claim vast Chinese continental stretches.
      The Russians are also exporting gas to these potential enemies – as they are next door.
      The US can keep their gas as a strategic reserve.

    • SA

      You can argue with that:
      “….and we have to defend them against Russia”. This is fact free as Nato’s Main function has been to threaten Russia rather than defend anybody. Also does Germany really need defending against Russia?

  • Sharp Ears

    Southgate pre the match.

    ‘England manager Gareth Southgate says he knew that the negative press about Russia leading up to this summer’s World Cup would not turn out to be true.

    Southgate was speaking ahead of England’s World Cup semi-final against Croatia at Luzhniki Stadium in Moscow on Wednesday – the Three Lions’ first appearance at this stage of the tournament in 28 years.

    England have been based in Repino near St. Petersburg for the tournament, but their campaign has taken them to five different host cities.

    They return to Moscow for the game against Croatia, having played in the Russian capital in the last 16 against Colombia, albeit at the smaller Spartak Stadium.

    In addition to touching on England’s preparations for the nation’s biggest game in nearly three decades, Southgate took the time to praise World Cup hosts Russia.

    “The way we’ve been received here has been fantastic,” Southgate said at a pre-match press conference at Luzhniki Stadium.

    “Every city we’ve played in, and our base in particular, but everywhere we’ve played, we’ve had a really warm welcome, the organization of the tournament has been absolutely first-class.”

    Southgate also said he had not bought into much of the scaremongering about Russia peddled by sections of the UK press ahead of the tournament.

    Warnings to England fans and players had ranged from the supposed threat lurking from masses of hooligans, to players being seduced by Kremlin-backed ‘honey traps’.

    “The welcome of the Russian people has been top,” Southgate said.

    “I was here last summer for the Confederations Cup, and it was exactly the same, there were a lot of stories going into the tournament that I knew weren’t going to be true, and that’s proved to be the case,” former England international Southgate added. ‘


  • Pyotr Grozny

    “Tomorrow and tomorrow and tomorrow…”. Craig, any word, or are you as stumped as many of us appear to be?

          • bj

            Sharp Ears has a sharp tongue.

            What’s against a father helping his son?
            The festival isn’t held for profit, is it?

          • Maywood

            (I suspect this is going to appear ABOVE rather than BELOW the comment I’m replying to. There is no Reply button on that comment from bj. But I may turn out to be wrong …)

            “Sharp Ears has a sharp tongue.” — Indeed

            “What’s against a father helping his son?” — Nothing, obviously. But I suspect Craig goes (as well) to recharge his batteries, not that there’s anything wrong with that either.

            “The festival isn’t held for profit, is it?” — I’m pretty sure it’s not. I can think of other ways of making money that are a lot less strenuous!

  • Maureen

    I wouldn’t put it past the Ukrainians to do something like this.
    Chaotic, criminal, poorly conceived, spiteful, careless.
    The Babchenko incident shows how shameless their intelligence agencies are prepared to be.

  • Keltro

    The point has been made there are lot of questions and a lot of possible answers made on here.
    This question however is answerable.
    Why have Porton Downs waited this long to confirm a direct link between Salisbury and Amesbury?
    Is it because they are waiting to see what Charlie Rowley has to say before committing themselves?

    • SA

      There is another answerable question: what progress has the police made in the Skripals’ case?

      • Robyn

        And the biggest unanswerable/unanswered question of them all – where are the Skripals?

      • Jo

        Also FSB were doing a criminal ivestigation……if only they can solve it all….would anyone listen…could it upset the applecart of the whole UK establishment……if only…..

  • quasi_verbatim

    I note that there is a Torra-Ponsati-Catalonia-Quisling love-in going on.

    That should kick the can down the road on Scotland’s Independence for a few more decades.

  • Sharp Ears

    Chapter and verse on Trump and his trade wars.

    Trump, Trade Wars, and the Class Struggle
    Ike Nahem / July 11th, 2018

    The essay concludes:

    ‘The Class Struggle Will Ratchet Up

    When you enter a period like the current one, within the transition from one era-epoch to another, old truisms become stale, alliances and allies can and do change, traditional state-to-state relations become strained and even boil over. No one can doubt that class struggle, social polarization, and political volatility is likely to be ratcheted up considerably in the context of the coming global economic downturn. This will happen everywhere and anywhere. In the United States itself we can expect more massive working class and popular eruptions – seemingly coming out of nowhere – like the wave of solid, disciplined, and victorious teacher’s strikes in the US states of West Virginia, Oklahoma, and Arizona in early 2018.

    The unfolding trade wars unleashed by Donald Trump are now facts on the ground. To cite the great socialist pioneer Frederick Engels:
    ‘Those who unleash controlled forces, also unleash uncontrolled forces.’

    • Sharp Ears

      This is what’s driving him.

      ‘U.S. Debt to China: How Much Does It Own?
      Exactly How Much U.S. Debt Does China Own? And Why?
      May 30, 2018
      The U.S. debt to China is $1.19 trillion as of March 2018. That’s 19 % of the $6.29 trillion in Treasury bills, notes, and bonds held by foreign countries. The rest of the $21 trillion national debt is owned by either the American people or by the U.S. government itself. ‘

      I wonder how much we are in hock to the Chinese.

  • Keith Prescott

    A comparison between BBC newscasters v others might reveal a significant disparity. Surely to be paid £50,000 a month (Hew Edwards) , for fluency with an autocue and a refined Welsh accent might just raise a few eyebrows. Perhaps Hew brings something extra to our news……….a little editing perhaps ?
    I’m sure most other presenters are strictly tied to the autocue and report the ‘news’ that Hew and close friends have decided is fit to be broadcast.

    • Sharp Ears

      The TV is on. Alastair Campbell! ex BLiar @ No 10, Perrior ex May @ No 10, and a Tom Fletcher ex Blair, Brown and Cameron @ No 10 are discussing Trump and the visit on the Victoria Derbyshire programme.

      Thumbs down from Campbell.
      Thumbs neither up nor down Perrior
      Ditto from Fletcher. I have never heard of him.

      ‘Fletcher was British Ambassador to Lebanon (2011–15)[4] and the 10 Downing Street foreign policy adviser to Prime Ministers Tony Blair, Gordon Brown and David Cameron (2007–11). He previously served as a British diplomat in Nairobi and Paris, and as the Private Secretary to FCO Ministers Baroness Valerie Amos and Chris Mullin.’

      Talking heads again. Campbell’s voice is constantly being heard. I suppose he picks up appearance fees.

    • Patrick Mahony

      The only problem is the photos he cites were taken in QEG but the place where it happened (Avon Playground) was sealed off.
      One of the comments I commented on. The Times said the first person to respond was an off-duty army nurse, who had been in Sierra Leone for the ebola crisis.
      Now by an odd coincidence the air ambulance went in the wrong direction north to Hullavington (prior to going south Salisbury) where the army medical logistics squadron is based who deployed to – Sierra Leone.

    • Geoffrey

      From reading his book sometime ago,he thought that that Blair’s fervent unconditional support of the invasion of Iraq was not in the interest of the United Kingdom. Blair and Bush planned together in the absence of officials , though I am sure Campbell was heavily involved.

    • Doodlebug

      “A photo published in The Times showed Sir Christopher in a Paddington hospital bed with his eyes closed and his face covered in blood.”

      So the Press are allowed into a hospital ward to take newsworthy pictures of a crime victim very shortly after an assault. Anyone recall seeing a photograph of either Sergei or Yulia Skripal taken under similar circumstances?

      • Kempe

        The image was released by Sir Christopher’s family, it has his wife’s name on it, so presumably was released with his knowledge and permission. For much of the time they were in hospital the Skripal’s weren’t capable of granting permission.

        So what was your point?

        • Doodlebug

          “The image.. has his wife’s name on it”

          It appears here: https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/ex-ambassador-christopher-meyer-in-hospital-after-brutal-attack-at-station-f0f5njjrd

          I can’t see anyone’s name on it.

          “so presumably was released with his knowledge and permission”


          “For much of the time they were in hospital the Skripal’s weren’t capable of granting permission.”

          For much of the time? Yulia Skripal recovered quickly enough to hold a ‘phone conversation with her cousin, while her father was lying ill in bed apparently. By the way was it a relative, d’you think, who took the photograph of a dying Alexander Litvinenko?

          Now what’s your point?

          • Kempe

            See here:- https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-44806139

            Litvinenko’s photograph was taken by a professional who more normally does weddings but it was done and released with Litvinenko’s consent, he wanted the world to see what Putin’s agents had done to him. If for whatever reason the Skripals or the hospital treating them didn’t want photos taken and released it wouldn’t have happened and remember the Skripals were being held under guard and in isolation.

            I’m struggling to understand your point. Why do think it significant or suspicious that no pictures of the Skripals in hospital were released?

          • Doodlebug

            Kempe, I take your point regarding the captioned photograph of sir Christopher Meyer. However…

            “If for whatever reason the Skripals or the hospital treating them didn’t want photos taken and released it wouldn’t have happened and remember the Skripals were being held under guard and in isolation.”

            Until Bojo et al started screaming ‘Novichok’ the Skripals were receiving treatment for an unspecified toxin, which could, in priniciple at least, have been self-administered. A consultant at the hospital even went so far as to announce publicly that no-one was being treated for nerve-agent poisoning. I am not at all clear when, or indeed if, they were being ‘held under guard and in isolation’ therefore. No images, static or otherwise, were published of their admission, their circumstances while inside, or their release from Salisbury District Hospital. That I find odd, given the media frenzy whipped up at the time.

  • Doodlebug

    Returning to the principal topic….

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-44721558 (redacted – parentheses mine) :

    “On Saturday 30 June, paramedics were called twice to a flat in Muggleton Road in Amesbury – first at 10:15 BST after Ms Sturgess, 44, collapsed, and again at 18:20 BST after Mr Rowley, 45, also fell ill.”

    “Police say that the pair had a high concentration of Novichok on their hands (one each I understand), and so they believe they handled a contaminated item.

    “A government scientist told the BBC the item was probably discovered by the couple in a contained space and was so toxic it was able to pass through the skin.”

    “They returned to the building (John Baker House) around 16:20 BST, before heading to Amesbury by bus at around 22:30.

    “Police believe they were there until emergency services were called on Saturday.”

    Hence the riddle of Amesbury:

    I am a contaminated item from within a ‘contained space’ at a flat in Muggleton Road and grasped with one hand on the morning of Saturday 30 June by Dawn Sturgess, who had spent the previous night there perfectly well. Hours later I was treated in a similar fashion by Charlie Rowley, who also proceeded to fall ill. What am I?

    Answer: A cigarette

      • Doodlebug

        I think you’ve missed the point, which hinges on the scientist’s reference to ‘a contained space’, not open or confined, as in the street versus some back alley, or even a wheelie bin, since neither Dawn nor Charlie went ‘bin-dipping’ before breakfast that Saturday. Which suggests that the contained space in question was actually inside Rowley’s apartment at the time it was accessed, i.e. it was itself a ‘container’ of some description. I can think of nothing more likely to promote single-handed dexterity than a packet of cigarettes.

        • Igor P.P.

          Couldn’t “contained space” refer to something like a plastic bag? Then then it can be argued that the assassin wrapped used container in a plastic bag before throwing it away which is why it remained active for four months. Add to this some CCTV footage of someone with a Russian connection throwing a piece of rubbish into any bin around Salisbury, and an an iron-cast proof is in our hands.

          • bj

            I noticed now there’s a doorknob in there!!

            We must be on to something here!
            How apt it would be — this whole farce being a bad pun on Fawlty Towers!!
            Spread the word!

            Sorry for all the exclamations, but I’m very excited about this.

          • Doodlebug

            Got it. Curioser and curioser eh? To be fair nothing would surprise me given the regular farces played out at Westminster.

          • bj

            Thanks for responding.

            That was so much more fun to notice the doorknob in there, than not to deserve wider knowledge.

    • Igor P.P.

      I’d be skeptical of quotes from unnamed, unspecifed “goverment scientists”.

  • Vivian O'Blivion

    Reasonably confident that the anti Trump demos will be conducted in good humour and pass off peaceably.
    What about the “Free Tommy” rally? Is it still going ahead what with England v’s Belgium kicking off at 15:00?
    That one’s guaranteed to descend into a riot (rally that is not the footy match).
    As revealed exclusively on this site, courtesy of Sharp Ears, the American state is financially supporting the “Free Tommy” rally via an outfit called the Middle East Forum. Yep, American tax payers $ going to a foreign criminal and his knuckle dragging supporters.

  • quasi_verbatim

    Thousands of online petitioners, street protesters, the Trump Blimp over Turnberry and Quisling hiding down the boghole will all contribute to alienate the one man whose affinity to the idea of Scotland’s Independence might be most instrumental in bringing it about.

    All of which leads to the melancholy conclusion that these Scots are, well, just too thick to acquire a country of their own.

    • bj

      I’m sure Trump must have his own, private reasons for wanting Scottish independence — if that is at all true.

      Shake the apple from the tree and you can eat it.

    • ADKC

      You keep on calling the Scots ‘thick’ and you’ll be the one instrumental is bring about independence.

      An incredibly, ignorant and insulting post.

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