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7,461 thoughts on “Not Forgetting the al-Hillis continued

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    • Trowbridge H. Ford

      The new probe to pin the al-Hilli massacre on Nordahl Lelandais seems just a convenient way to cover up the police failures in investigating it. Thought that the cold case was still ongoing, and the police work in France, the UK, and Iraq was hardly exhaustiive.Seems Nordahl would not have spared the chance of killing the al-hilli girls if he had had the chance.

      They never looked into the case against the Mossad and William Hershkovitz.

  • intp1

    Nordahl Lelandais

    Are there really serial killers that will kill such different victims in different ways? via pedophile attack (where he was guaranteed to be a suspect), an ex comrade-soldier hitch-hiker, and a family in a remote tourist spot
    in Sept 2012, April 2017, Aug 2017 – no pattern whats-so ever?
    Is that really a likely serial killer profile anyone ever heard of?
    The Chevaline shootings were double taps, almost no shots missed, left no actionable leads, seems like professionally extracted, female child not abducted, 2 husbands of Iqbal’s killed on same day, massive UK embassy security response to the crime scene, dogged determination to not-investigate by both police “partners”.
    Wait and see but seems like they are reaching, or just putting pressure on the suspect and I am sure they are sick of managing the case publicly. They would give a lot for somebody to confess to Chevaline so they can move on.

    • Q

      Or is it a case of not understanding the circumstances of each killing?

      Is the killer disorganized or organized? By their nature, serial killers are predatory and opportunistic in either case.

      Serial killers are very poorly understood. How many carry on for years without any discernable pattern recognized by police? How many never get caught? How many have a discernable pattern and still never get caught?

      Although the non-serial killer colonel Russell Williams (pleaded guilty to two murders, but were there more?) killed only adult women, what about his porn stash involving young girls? What about the 80+ B&Es of homes, many of which were homes of young girls, and theft of their underwear, as well as “activities” in their bedrooms?

      FWIW, Williams killed a military subordinate who had served with him. His other victim was the daughter of a man who had served in intelligence at naval HQ. Interestingly, she had worked with a school bus company that transported school children to the military base where Williams worked, for the purpose of swimming lessons at the base pool. There was an arrest of a civilian employee at the base on child pork charges at the same time the Williams investigation was ongoing.

      All I’m saying is that plea deals do take place. We have no idea what police investigations reveal, because very little information reaches the public.

      We also have no idea how many times like-minded criminals team up.

      One person may not be responsible for all these crimes in France, of course. Seems like the easy explanation.

    • Q

      Further thoughts: disappearances from parking lots, wooded areas, trails…meetup locations, maybe? Were any of the missing men gay, or on dating websites? Did any use street drugs?

      Dark-haired men, dark-skinned men, several with beards and mustaches in the same style, short hair, almost a “type”. Similar ages for some.

      Missing girls with dark hair, including Estelle.

      The al-Hilli girls with dark hair, their father with dark hair.

      The dates…2012 in particular.

      I hope geographic profiling is one of the investigstive tools. Also, cross-referencing the friends on social media is obvious. And police in Canada overlooked it for years. Marginalized people make easy victims (immigrants, gay, poor, with addictions, etc.). Police bias may contribute to a failure to properly investigate these cases.

      The Canadian killer used his landscaping job to hide victims and scout locations, allegedly. Some were employees of his company. Landscaping involves tree removal at times. He worked in forested cottage country for years. Even the big city where he last lived has wooded ravines.

  • Bacchus

    Quelqu’un sait interpréter les rêves : “Je me promène dans la forêt avec un sac qui ressemble à un grand etui pour luger. Soudain je suis attaqué para un lion, je monte aux arbres, le lion fait des sauts très haut, il arrive presque à m’atteindre. Je me réfugie dans une hutte sur l’arbre, le lion se transforme en chat sauvage, j’arrive à le saisir dans une de ces attaques et je le frappe contre les parois de la hutte … enfin je le lance loin et il tombe sur une table de cuisine … “

  • Q


    That face looks familiar. The composite sketch reminds me to ask if a composite sketch was made of the mystery man who confronted Saad in the campground.

  • Q

    An expert talks about how serial murderers have a preferred “type”, but also deviate to other victims if opportunity arises.


    This gardener/mall Santa travelled to Italy, and tips are coming in from all over the world.

    Is it so hard to believe that a serial killer could travel the short distances in France to prey on victims, or that a French serial killer could have a preferred type and “settle” on the occasional victim of opportunity outside that type? Is it impossible for a serial killer to have an organized plan at times, and disorganized behaviour at others, especially when using substances? What if a planned meetup went wrong when someone showed up uninvited?

  • Q

    Rave parties have been a big problem for a long time near the massif des Bauges.



    So why did this not come up before? Local people would have known where and when the parties took place. Wouldn’t knowledge of rave parties in the area of the Chevaline mass murder have some bearing on the investigation?

    And now Nordahl Lelandais is suspected of luring victims from EDM festivals and nightclubs.

  • Q

    If indeed the French investigators do not consider Nordahl Lelandais a suspect in the Chevaline mass murder, their reasoning is weak.

    “Nothing is less certain,” says a source close to the investigation that works on the quadruple murder since the first day. “I do not see how he could have escaped us. Five thousand telephones bounded in one hour of time on one of the two telephone relays located on the crime scene area. And we have all sifted them, like those of the second terminal. Although circumstances did not help, as two Asian tour buses were going around at the same time, we checked everything, even the numbers leading to China . In total, nearly 10,000 profiles have been studied between our region, northern Italy and Switzerland.”

    From: http://www.lepoint.fr/societe/tuerie-de-chevaline-la-piste-nordahl-lelandais-a-priori-ecartee-27-12-2017-2182691_23.php

    Perhaps they should read Wikipedia, where it states that NL was savvy enough to put his phone in airplane mode in the case of Maëlys. Look at the time and dates when many of the people in the area went missing. Some went missing in the middle of the day. Autumn is a recurring theme, as are the first several days of the month. Then there’s the case of the missing motorcyclist who has never been found. His helmet and motorcycle were, however, located. Maybe that motorcyclist at Chevaline was fleeing the scene for a different reason than first thought.


    A better approach might be to find out when NL was confirmed out of the country, or when he was in custody, or in treatment in secure facilities where It is proven that he could not have been able to roam freely. Work backwards from when he could not possibly be a suspect, as in the case of Estelle.

    It seems a weak argument that NL could not possibly have been anywhere near Chevaline because he shut off his phone, put it in airplane mode, ran out of charge or didn’t take it with him that day. Maybe he wasn’t there. But the investigators don’t think they could have missed him! Five plus years on, they’ve missed someone. Five plus years on, they have not spoken about the big problem of out-of-control rave parties in the area, and yet they insist this was a lone wolf local. Who would know the back roads better than organizers of illegal rave parties, and community members who attend them?

    Is there an unwillingness to consider the unsavoury side of the tourist region? Would it be impossible to consider the secrets of citizens, including meetups with small-time drug dealers, or sexual secrets? Reputation only matters to the living. Four people are dead. Hush…hush?

  • Good In Parts

    Article 11 seems to have been Eric’s get-out-of-jail-free card.

    Le procureur assure quant à lui la communication sur l’affaire, appliquant à la lettre
    l’article 11 du code de procédure pénale qui dit qu’« afin d’éviter la propagation
    d’informations parcellaires ou inexactes ou pour mettre fin à un trouble à l’ordre
    public, le procureur de la République peut révéler des éléments objectifs tirés de la
    procédure ne comportant aucune appréciation sur le bien-fondé des charges
    retenues contre les personnes mises en cause

    The prosecutor assures the communication on the case, applying to the letter
    Article 11 of the Code of Criminal Procedure which says that “in order to prevent
    the propagation of fragmentary or inaccurate information or to put an end to a
    disorder public order, the public prosecutor may reveal objective elements drawn
    from the procedure without any assessment on the merits of the charges against
    the persons implicated

  • Trowbridge H. Ford

    How could anyone in theiir right mind think that NL killed the al-Hilli adults when he spared their children!

    Just shows that the DM is the mouthpiece of the UK’s deep state.

  • Good In Parts

    The best thing since sliced croissants

    An isochronal map overlay generator! Check out this link to the french geoportail site :- https://www.geoportail.gouv.fr/carte

    First load up a map layer such as ‘Carte IGN’ then load up the new ‘Isochrone pieton’

    This is sonewhat new and still in ‘beta’ but still very interesting. The main drawback is the forced choice between voiture or on-foot. Unfortunately here is no option for off-road motorcycle. With voiture driving selected, the algorithm is much too slow on forest tracks and trails.

    The on-foot option seems to be based on Naismith’s Rule,a variant of which I used to review exit routes toward the Giez area here :-


    I favour the use of the strip of land under the pylons from le Reposoir to le Pesset. Remarkably the overlay generator actually generates solutions using this route as it is now a ‘forest trail’ marked on the ‘Carte IGN’. So much for the drole de canasson…

  • Good In Parts

    Mobylette Madness. . .

    I suggest that the killer rode up the combe on a motorcycle via Arnand then left it concealed and approached Le Martinet parking on foot.

    SM is assumed to have been the principal target and that he was observed by the killer setting off from Ugine or observed in-transit on the cycle track.

    14:10:00 – Approx time SM sets off from Ugine, heading along the cycle track

    14:52:00 – ONF1 (heading up) passes LFR
    14:52:30 – LMC (heading up) passes LFR

    15:00:00 – ONF2 meet LMC at second hairpin and exchange a few words
    15:01:00 – LMC start descent from Martinet parking
    15:02:30 – ONF2 start descent from Martinet parking
    15:09:00 – LMC (heading down) passes LFR
    15:09:30 – ONF2 (heading down) passes LFR

    15:09 to 15:14 – MOTO (heading up) passes CA (his first mobylette)

    15:10:30 – SAH (heading up) passes LFR then turns back to Arnand
    15:11:00 – SAH (heading down) passes CA before entering Arnand
    15:12:00 – WBM spots SM crossing the T junction ahead of him
    15:12:10 – WBM spots LMC and ONF2 (near the eglise)
    15:16:00 – SM (heading up) passes LFR (but not seen by him)
    15:16:30 – WBM (heading up) passes LFR (but not seen by him)
    15:17:00 – TBR (heading up) passes CA (his second mobylette)
    15:17:30 – TBR overtakes WBM shortly after the old mill
    15:17:30 – SAH passes CA heading up the combe (his second voiture)
    15:18:nn – SAH party last photo taken

    15:21:00 – SAH passes the sign by the old mill heading up the combe
    15:27:30 – ONF1 (heading down) passes TBR at Martinet parking
    15:29:00 – ONF1 (heading down) crosses SAH (the 4×4 seen by Zainab)
    15:29:00 – ONF1 (heading down) crosses SM

    15:30:00 – ONF1 (heading down) crosses WBM (the 4×4 seen by WBM)
    15:32:nn – SM phone call
    15:36:00 – WBM (heading up) crosses TBR 550m down from the barrier
    15:36:00 – ONF1 (heading down) passes CA
    15:36:00 – SAH arrival at Le Martinet
    15:37:00 – TBR rides up side track towards Mont Benoit (where he hears shots)
    15:37:00 – PB+2 (heading up) passe CA (his third voiture)
    15:38:30 – SM arrives at Le Martinet parking – shooting starts
    15:39:30 – Killer leaves Le Martinet parking – runs back towards MOTO

    15:40:00 – WBM arrival at Le Martinet
    15:42:30 – WBM departs
    15:44:59 – First emergency call
    15:47:00 – WBM and PB return to Le Martinet
    15:48:00 – Second emergency call

    16:03:00 – Emergency services pass old mill

  • Good In Parts

    The quote below is from the BBC story “Alps murders: ‘No progress’ five years after al-Hilli shooting” dated 5 September 2017.

    The URL is http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-surrey-41150373

    ” The French lead prosecutor, Veronique Dizot, said work was being carried out to identify the previous owners of the guns used in the attack, but she said there were no potential suspects in the case.

    She said: “We have certain technical information about the weapons, but we have not yet identified the previous owner or owners of the weapons.” ”

    One would hope that the BBC could distinguish the singular from the plural in french.

  • Intp1

    @Good in Parts
    Let me throw up this ine balloon of several.
    Summer of 2012
    UK security who are interested in Areva and have an asset in SMs cycling circles, decide to tempt SM into some informational or material indiscretion, They turn to SAH to act as plausible cut out and please his handlers with a little side work. It is not unusual for sensitive scientists engineers to be pushed into such dirty work.
    SAH naievely decides to combine the job with a free family holiday as good cover; he organizes the trip at short notice outside of school hols. Some-one recklessly approves it.
    Meanwhile, A different agency gets wind of a SM meet but doesnt understand the Brits are behind it or maybe it doesnt care. They monitor and set up a professional interception designed to punish and deter.
    WBM is minding the meet but doesnt keep up with SM.
    The operation involves 2 MC and maybe 1 SUV. 1 MC carries the killer who is tasked with eliminating all. He catches SM on the hill with several shots from the bike then dismounts finishes SM . Coolly then takes out the All Hillis . Passes his weapon to another vehicle. Perhaps an off road MC and all disperse for extraction. Possibly via Geneva.
    WBM arrives, discusses with base and comes up with a cover story that he later needs to modify and is laughably released by police within 48 hours to go back to UK, since French security now know what happened. Most of the comings and goings story is BS cover, starting with WBMs BBC performance and including the later found tourist MC rider whos identity is classified. Both Police do their best to pretend to investigate under strict Security supervision. Zainab is not killed, either because amminition/time ran out or a sudden attack of scruples. Bits of luger are dropped to mask the use of a large capacity automatic asassination weapon using the same ammunition. Half the UK embassy security section including chief of staff show up at Chevaline within hours.
    A part that doesnt fit this iis the death of Iqbal’s ex on the same day. Which is a coincidence with an astronomicaly high chance of not being a coincidence. That suggests old Iraqi connections possibilities and another type of theory.

  • Trowbridge H. Ford

    It’s very absurd when deceased Mossad recruit American William Hershkovitz was their apparent assassin, and the weapon or weapons used belong to the Mossad.

    • Q

      An accused serial killer in the area, who stands accused of killing locals before and after the assassinations at Chevaline. An accused serial killer with a military background, who may have had access to historical weapons. It would be irresponsible for investigators to ignore Nordahl Lelandais as a person of interest in this case.

      The al-Hilli arrival at the scene could not have been anticipated, so things did not go according to plan…and things got very messy. The killer simply ran out of time to finish what he started. Mercy had nothing to do with the survival of the little girls.

      Did the investigators find dog hair on any of the victims? Animal DNA is unique to the individual, just as in humans.

      • Trowbridge H. Ford

        Just pontificating again Q about the assassin having no mercy in not killing the girls.

        How do you know? Do you know the killer? Were you there when it occurred?

        You are just a mouthpiece for the vile Anglo-Franco killers.

  • Good In Parts

    Let’s throw the Swiss under the bus…

    “Cinq ans après les faits, la Suisse accepte de coopérer avec la France pour retrouver le dernier propriétaire du pistolet.”

    “Les Français aimeraient constituer avec leurs homologues helvétiques une équipe commune d’enquête (ECE), comme ils l’ont fait avec les Britanniques.”

    Yeah, I bet, because that worked out so well… for the french !

    “On travaille sur la piste locale”

    About time too !


    P.S. The detail about the model of Luger used is incorrect in almost every regard.

  • Good In Parts

    Une activité de deplacement?

    So “On travaille sur la piste locale” but “Le pistolet est peut-être le dernier espoir de résoudre l’énigme de Chevaline.”

    I do not think it is anywhere near the last hope and I suspect that the gendarmes are still in denial with regards to certain approaches.

    But, hey, they are obviously publicly committed to this narrative.

    However the Swiss may indeed successfully find the information requested but there may be no discernable onward connection to the killer…

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