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7,866 thoughts on “Not Forgetting the al-Hillis continued

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  • Good In Parts

    Less than a month now until the 5th anniversary of these tragic murders.

    Let’s hope that the new ‘proc’ makes effective use of the resultant media interest.

    Justice delayed is justice denied.

  • Good In Parts

    Red Luger ?

    It looks like I was wrong, the broken grip was not wooden but made from a ‘composite material’. This goes some way to explaining why the grip ‘plaquette’ shattered. Presumably the rubber based material became embrittled with age.

    So, it was a P06/29 similar to the one below. Having said that, a quick web search suggests that black composite grips were also sometimes factory fitted.

    If the grips were actually red, then that would seem to me to be a distinctive feature of the weapon that could form the basis of a public appeal.

  • Good In Parts

    Where did ONF2 go ?

    One can infer the following:-

    They did not just descend the combe and park-up the vehicle for the night.

    ONF1 could not have seen the ONF2 vehicle parked-up as usual, a few meters from his own house, when he himself descended the combe.

    They were not found and interviewed when les gendarmes canvassed the village.

    So, where did they go ?

  • Pink

    GIP There was at one point a photo showing at least one green 4×4 I can’t remember if it got disappeared it was parked on the grass and at the time I thought it was an ONF vehicle, the one that got interviewed . does anyone else remember it and was it a LWB landrover ,its on here somewhere ?

  • Pink

    I think it was about the time I spotted a policeman holding onto a bike at the bottom of the CDI and speculated it was BM’s bike while he was taken for interview as the guy was hanging on to it while directing traffic on one of the videos, if any of those convos show up it will be about the right time ,I am on a different comp now and don’t have any links .

  • Sharp Ears

    Tell us something new BBC.

    Alps murders: ‘No progress’ five years after al-Hilli shooting
    4 hours ago

    The brother of a British man shot dead while on a family holiday in the French Alps says he is frustrated with the lack of progress in the investigation.
    The bodies of Saad al-Hilli, his wife Iqbal and her mother, Suhaila al-Allaf, were discovered on a remote forest road on 5 September 2012.

  • Q

    If any dog hair was found at Chevaline after the massacre on the mountain in 2012, now would be a good time to test it against the DNA of Nordahl L.’s dogs.

    Dogs at the scene, especially trained military dogs, could explain some of the oddites as to who was where and why.

    Animal DNA is unique to the individual, just as is human DNA. Thanks to the infamous Snowball the cat, this has been established and proven in court.

    Dogs might also leave footprints at the scene, and bite marks or scratches on the victims.

  • Q

    Saad al-Hilli’s house was in Saint Macaire, Gironde? Dordogne has a large British expat community, a cricket club, British pubs. It’s a place British expats can thrive with little effort to speak French or fit into the culture, apparently.

    So why did SAH choose the wine country of Gironde and Saint Macaire in particular? Its medieval buildings? The history of viticulture, and old vines that made their way to the New World? Quick access to the Bordeaux–Mérignac Airport?

    Other reports stated that he had made very little progress in restoring the crumbling home. What else did he do with his time?

  • JamesKing


    Rust and aluminium powder ….that’s thermite. And it’s produced/has a by product by heat.

    The thing with “research” is, you can use it to make weapons OR you can use it for “free energy”.

    That’s “9/11” and “a big nuclear company”

    • JamesKing

      Cheap, easy, no problem, limitless, non fossil “energy”.
      Well, there has to be “something” that’s going to power all these electric cars ? Non ?

      Next question. Why was/How was Tritium found at the WTC site ?

      Study of Traces of Tritium
      at the World Trade Center (Oct. 2002)/U.S. Department of Energy

      “Tritium is an important component in nuclear weapons. It is used to enhance the efficiency and yield of fission bombs and the fission stages of hydrogen bombs in a process known as “boosting” as well as in external neutron initiators for such weapons,” according Wikipedia; meaning that the only way it would be present in high trace levels is if a nuclear device (or three) detonated within proximity. Additionally it’s important to note that tritium is “extremely rare on Earth” and again — should not be found in at levels reported to be ’55 times higher than normal.’


      “After testing a series of increasingly large tokamaks, fusion researchers agreed 10 years ago to build a huge one in France called ITER.
      If everything goes to plan – which it almost certainly won’t – in 2035 ITER will produce 500 megawatts of energy for a few hundred seconds. That will make it the first fusion reactor to produce more energy than it takes to operate.”

      Free Energy is all about “the process”. Atom’s are atoms, until you split one. Then they’re something else.

      As a “government”, would you sooner have “free energy” (and no meter or tax) OR “a bloody great big weapon”.

    • Q

      Do you think a simple welder was familiar with exothermic welding (as used in railways)? Because exothermic welding is indeed done by AREVA employees. The company has guidelines online for inspecting these welds.

  • Q

    Oh, no. Now you’re taking us back to the Canadian connections…construction of ITER (JS, stepfather of the not-serial killer ex-air force Col. Russell Williams, who incidentally grew up in Deep River, Ontario near the Chalk River nuclear facility). And the mysterious death of Chalk River nuclear researcher Lachlan Cranswick, who went missing from Deep River between Williams’ murders. And don’t forget the (Boston Brakes?) death of the Max Planck Italian tokamak scientist near the ITER facility.

    And the AREVA’s failed bid for Chalk River nuclear….

    Speaking of which, tritium sign recycling was also carried out in the area where Cranswick lived.

    Never mind, though. France has a problem of its own in wine country.

    • Q

      And long ago, Cranswick did research in Grenoble. Impossible to get to the bottom of all these crossed paths, disappearances and murders.

  • @

    Pink has posted on the “Disappearing Aircraft” thread about the Kobe Steel scandal.

    If there’s something go on with the Kobe-AREVA steel casks for the containment of nuclear waste, it could be helpful to know for this thread.

    One of the many things Lachlan Craswick wrote about was deep underground repositories for nuclear waste. He also had a “Japanese friend”. Go figure. Maybe nothing, maybe not nothing.

  • Trowbridge H. Ford

    Still think that my expanding on Craig’s original post about the massacre being an all French affair which appeared on, and i added that it also involved the Brits and the Israelis,with the American William Hershkovitz, a Mossad recruit, being the assassin, subsequently killed in Eilat, and resulted in the site being closed down in Brighton because of liibel threats by, it seems, the Sussex Friends of Israel has something to do with Craig/s libel action since I have continued my claims on his site.

  • freddy

    Lake Annecy murders: Everything we know five years on from the unsolved killing of a Claygate family in southern France

    It is five years since a family from Claygate met their end on a remote mountain road high in the French Alps.

    But police are no closer to finding the gunman who slaughtered Saad al-Hilli, his wife, Iqbal, her mother, Suhaila al-Allaf, and
    French cyclist Sylvain Mollier,
    near Lake Annecy on September 5 2012.

    The brutal attack, in which 25 shots were fired, also left the al-Hillis’ eldest daughter, Zainab, badly wounded and younger daughter, Zeena, cowering under her mother’s skirt for eight hours.

    On the fifth anniversary of the killings, Mr al-Hilli’s brother, Zaid, expressed frustration to the BBC at the lack of progress in an investigation that has at varying times considered military secrets, political assassination, lone psychopaths, ex-policemen and a French Foreign Legionnaire, all to no avail.

    Who shot the al-Hillis and Mr Mollier, and why? Here is what we know:

    September 5 2012 – The killings

    Just before 4pm on September 5 2012, a British/New Zealand cyclist, William Brett Martin, former RAF pilot, found a scene of chaos at a lay-by on the Route de la Combe d’Iré above Lake Annecy. A BMW, its engine still running, was jammed hard against the mountainside, midway through trying to turn and flee.

    The doors were locked, and inside were the al-Hillis, each of the adults with three gunshot wounds, including at least one each to the forehead. The cyclist didn’t see Zeena, four, hiding in the footwell by her mother’s feet.
    But he did find Mr Mollier, 45, sprawled by the car with seven gunshot wounds in his body, and Zainab, seven, wandering dazed and wounded. She had been shot in the shoulder and repeatedly struck on the head. He put her in the recovery position and called the emergency services, saving her life.

    September 9 2012 – Police investigate assassination theory

    French detectives soon floated the theory that the murders had been a professional hit, with Mr al-Hilli as the target. He had been part of a team working on a secret defence contract linked to European Aeronautic Defence and Space, a company that designs and launches satellites for commercial, civil and defence purposes.

    However, his colleagues at Surrey Satellites Technology Limited said his work was “routine”
    and would not have required him to sign the Official Secrets Act.
    September 22 2012 – Joint Franco-British investigation launched

    Surrey Police joined forces with French investigators under the EU judicial co-operation policy Eurojust – only the second time this had happened since the policy was created in 2003. The joint investigation would make cross-border cooperation easier and speed up the investigation.

    October 8 2012 – The Swiss connection

    Swiss prosecutors confirmed that Mr al-Hilli had visited a bank in Geneva shortly before the murders, and believed the trip had been linked to his death.

    Swiss authorities seized a bank account belonging to al-Hilli’s father, and raised the possibility the killings were due to a falling out between him and his brother over an inheritance from their father.

    October 29 2012 – ‘Lone psychopath’?

    Details of the investigation leaked to the French press said the police suspected the killer was most likely to be a “lone psychopath” rather than a hitman.

    One of the reasons for this conclusion was the type of weapon used – a pre-Second World War Luger P06 pistol, issued to the Swiss army during the 1920s and 1930s. The report said a professional assassin was unlikely to use such an obsolete weapon.

    June 24 2013 – Zaid al-Hilli arrested

    Surrey Police arrested Mr al-Hilli’s brother, Zaid, on suspicion of involvement in the Annecy killings. He admitted rowing with his brother, but dismissed allegations he had arranged the killings as “ridiculous”.

    He was later released and, in January 2014, Surrey Police announced he would face no further action.

    October 21 2013 – Panorama investigation
    The BBC’s Panorama programme reported a grey BMW X5 4×4 with right-hand drive was spotted at the crime scene, as was a motorcycle rider with a goatee beard and an unusual helmet.

    February 18 2014 – Eric Devouassoux, Former policeman/mountain man arrested
    A sketch of the motorcyclist in the unusual helmet led French police arrested a former police officer in the village close to where the murders had taken place. He was described as an “arms collector” by Le Monde , and several weapons were reportedly found in his home, but he faced no further action over the al-Hilli murders.

    May 24 2015 – French Foreign Legionnaire suspected
    Press reports indicated that Patrice Menegaldo, a former soldier in the French Foreign Legion who had committed suicide the previous June, was the chief suspect in the al-Hilli murders. He had been interviewed as a witness as French police believed he fitted the description of a professional assassin who could have targeted Mr al-Hilli.

    French prosecutors speculated he had taken his own life because he had regretted murdering the al-Hillis and Mr Mollier. However, nothing conclusive was found and the investigation continued.

    January 3 2016 – Another suspect identified

    A former French police officer named 53-year-old Belgian Michael Hecht as his main suspect in the killings, due in part to his involvement in other, similar crimes.

    Hecht had been convicted of three attempted murders in 2008, and was suspected of having
    murdered a pair of cyclists in Brittany in 1986. However, once again, there was insufficient evidence for an arrest or prosecution in the al-Hilli case.

    May 21 2017 – Brother calls for High Court review
    Zaid al-Hilli called for a High Court review into the murder investigation as there had been “no progress for years”.

    He said: “I do not trust the French police or the prosecutor, so I believe the review should be conducted by a High Court judge.” He also said he believed his brother and his family had not been the targets, and had just been in the wrong place at the wrong time.”

    September 5 2017 – No new leads
    Five years on from the murder, French police said they believed the al-Hillis had been the victims of an unplanned attack after an “unfortunate encounter” with someone who lived near Lake Annecy. However, they also admitted the case was “not advancing”.

    A Surrey Police spokesperson said: “Surrey Police is continuing to provide support to the French investigation into the murder of four people near Annecy, southern France on September 5 2012.

    “As part of the Joint Investigation Team (JIT), which was established following the deaths, officers from the Surrey and Sussex Major Crime Team have worked closely with the French authorities to progress a number of lines of enquiry in the UK.

    “This is a complex enquiry; however Surrey Police remains committed to helping find answers to what happened and continuing to assist the French investigation wherever possible.”

    • freddy

      I had not known that the seven year old had been struck several times on the head?

      “Zainab, seven, wandering dazed and wounded. She had been shot in the shoulder and repeatedly struck on the head.”

  • Trowbridge H. Ford

    See no mention of French investigators ruining the unknown DNA found at the site which prevents finding a likely assassin,like deceased likely assassin William Hershkovitz. The so-called investigation was nothing more than a cover up with the Brits just going along with the French spooks.

  • Trowbridge H. Ford

    As I recall, we were never told what DNA had been contaminated, leading to the conclusion that there was no good DNa available, And no indication that Hershkovitz’s DNA had been taken.

    The investigation makes one by the Keystone Cops look most professional

  • Trowbridge H. Ford

    Why so little interest on this site and in the British media about Harvey Weinstien’s hiring a Mossad-based firm to get his female sex victims to shut up?

    Seems Mossad agent Stella Penn Pechanac was recruited from the Oranim program, the same as was William Hershkovitz. Wonder if they had some connection. She helped, it seems, cover up his mission and Harvey was interesedt in her helping cover up his missions.

    Will check on possible connection.

    • freddy

      Trowbridge, I do not think we are allowed to comment on Theresa May being Home Secretary and Prime minister while the al-Hilli massacre and mystery is on-going.
      Perhaps you might know why?

      • Trowbridge H. Ford

        Oh, I think the silence is because of what M!6 Director John Sawers, thanks to Home Secretary Theresa May’s encouragement, was able to arrange in his office, like getting the French equivalent to help catch Saad al-Hilli getting rid of some of Saddam’s hidden assets for something that Iran would be interested in.

        Of course, this was one of ‘the age of betrayal’ approach to intelligence gathering which became a fiasco, and Sawers went into retirement while her career improved, something deserving continuing cover ups..

        • freddy

          do you think Theresa May / Dominic Raab
          know what happened
          to Mr.Mollier and the al-Hilli family up that combe in France
          on 05/09/2012 ?

  • Trowbridge H. Ford

    I don’t know who for sure knew who was involved in the al-Hilli massacre,. Certainly think that Priti Patel and Theresa May know. and approve of what happened to William Hershkovitz. Dominic Rabb seems unlikely, and sure to sue for libel if so charged, and Eady woyld support him in a case.

    Hope this post doesn’t get deleted like my previous one.

  • Trowbridge H. Ford

    Certainly disappointed by what Peter Oborne wrote about Priti Patel’s dismissal as if she was just guilty of innocent visits to the israelis since he previously blamed MI6 for the terrorist attacks, especially in Manchester, by acting as if long-gone Sir John Scarlett was still running it.

    Sir John Sawers, the outsider, certainly changed its ways of getting alleged spies, attacking them directly, like Saad al-Hilli, Gareth Williams and Sasha Litvinenko as if they was ones.

  • Trowbridge H. Ford

    Interesting that Gordon Correa forgot about them too in his The Art of Betrayal: The Secret History of MI6, though he did mention the attendance of the great and the good of UK’s intelligence elite, though John Sawers was far away from his predecessors at the funeral of legendary Harold Shergold in Westminster Abbey when he was buried in December 2012, the al-Hillis et al. long dead by then.

    Why avoid mentioning the massacre, and their not wanting to seen with Sawers.

    Looks like Christopher Andrew’s avoiding the dirty bits in his history of MI5.

  • Trowbridge H. Ford

    Now MI6 Director Alex Younger of most secretive family backgrounf has announced that he prefers George Smileys as agents rather than mavericks like James Bonds.

    Certainly the new ‘C’must oppose delegating the Bond work to the Mossad, like in the al-Hilli massacre.

    • Trowbridge H. Ford

      Still doesn’t justify the al-Hilli massacre, especially since The New Yorker magazine had an article about this silent strike in the first issue after the second one. Was done to make Israel look like a hero rather than the assassin.

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