The Ubiquity of Evil 4215

My world view changed forever when, after 20 years in the Foreign Office, I saw colleagues I knew and liked go along with Britain’s complicity in the most terrible tortures, as detailed stunningly in the recent Parliamentary Intelligence and Security Committee Report. They also went along with keeping the policy secret, deliberately disregarding all normal record taking procedures, to the extent that the Committee noted:

131. We note that we have not seen the minutes of these meetings either: this causes us great concern. Policy discussions on such an important issue should have been minuted. We support Mr Murray’s own conclusion that were it not for his actions these matters may never have come to light.

The people doing these things were not ordinarily bad people; they were just trying to keep their jobs, comforting themselves with the thought that they were only civil servants obeying orders. Many were also actuated by the nasty “patriotism” that grips in time of war, as we invaded Iraq and Afghanistan. Almost nobody in the FCO stood up against the torture or against the illegal war – Elizabeth Wilmshurst, Carne Ross and I were the only ones to leave over it.

I then had the still more mortifying experience of the Foreign Office seeking to punish my dissent by bringing a series of accusations of gross misconduct – some of them criminal – against me. The people bringing the accusations knew full well they were false. The people investigating them knew they were false from about day 2. But I was put through a hellish six months of trial by media before being acquitted on all the original counts (found guilty of revealing the charges, whose existence was an official secret!). The people who did this to me were people I knew.

I had served as First Secretary in the British Embassy in Poland, and bumped up startlingly against the history of the Holocaust in that time, including through involvement with organising the commemoration of the 50th anniversary of the liberation of Auschwitz. What had struck me most forcibly was the sheer scale of the Holocaust operation, the tens of thousands of people who had been complicit in administering it. I could never understand how that could happen – until I saw ordinary, decent people in the FCO facilitate extraordinary rendition and torture. Then I understood, for the first time, the banality of evil or, perhaps more precisely, the ubiquity of evil. Of course, I am not comparing the scale of what happened to the Holocaust – but evil can operate on different scales.

I believe I see it again today. I do not believe that the majority of journalists in the BBC, who pump out a continual stream of “Corbyn is an anti-semite” propaganda, believe in their hearts that Corbyn is a racist at all. They are just doing their job, which is to help the BBC avert the prospect of a radical government in the UK threatening the massive wealth share of the global elite. They would argue that they are just reporting what others say; but it is of course the selection of what they report and how they report it which reflect their agenda.

The truth, of which I am certain, is this. If there genuinely was the claimed existential threat to Jews in Britain, of the type which engulfed Europe’s Jews in the 1930’s, Jeremy Corbyn, Billy Bragg, Roger Waters and I may humbly add myself would be among the few who would die alongside them on the barricades, resisting. Yet these are today loudly called “anti-semites” for supporting the right to oppose the oppression of the Palestinians. The journalists currently promoting those accusations, if it came to the crunch, would be polishing state propaganda and the civil servants writing railway dockets. That is how it works. I have seen it. Close up.

4,215 thoughts on “The Ubiquity of Evil

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  • Republicofscotland

    Also the vile Boris Johnson, and the Veilgate affair is still rumbling in the background. If Jeremy Corbyn is suspended from the HoC for a period of time, then it seems only fair that Boris Johnson, should be suspended as well.

    “Two of the UK’s leading writers have threatened to resign as patrons of the charity Classics for All unless it ends its association with Boris Johnson in the wake of his controversial burka comments.”

    “The Guardian’s chief culture writer Charlotte Higgins and BBC broadcaster Natalie Haynes said they will remove their support for the organisation as long as the former foreign secretary remains a fellow patron.”

    • giyane


      Look, the rich have got richer and they are deeply entitled to their overseas holidays. This is the silly season when politicians used to take a fortnight off to spend with their families. With bargain offers for the bloated rich in every travel agency, believe me, there is nobody at the helm. The monkeys are in charge of the zoo.

      Why pay any attention to the silliness of the silly season?

      • Republicofscotland


        Not quite sure if you have a point in that comment. I’m pretty sure Jeremy Corbyn, or for that matter Boris Johnson, must feel that the silly season, is anything but silly, as both face a backlash from the media, and a section of society.

        • Republicofscotland

          August 17, 2018 at 15:05
          Yes it is. Stop obfuscating.”

          “& No it’s not a game”

          Good Evening Ishmael, my you’ve changed your mind pretty quickly, could be some kind of record for you.

          • Republicofscotland

            “Politics is a game, of wit and will, it has been for centuries.”

            Exactly Ishmael, I wrote the above, you commented that it wasn’t a game.

            Yet you commented to me today @17.53, the exact opposite

            “No point, it’s just a game.”

            I guess there’s no point in being magnanimous towards you. When you remain obstinate to the concession on your behalf.

          • Clark

            I think anyone would get frustrated with what is passing for politics at present. Let’s not take it out on each other eh?

          • Republicofscotland

            “About you. not to you.”

            A minor point at best, you still made the remark. Im beginning to think that you’re so conceited Ishmael, that you just can admit a simple point.

            Infact just forget it.

          • Clark

            Oh come on folks, cheer up! RoS, I think Ishmael means that this particular propaganda pie-fight isn’t particularly serious, but politics overall is.

          • Jo1

            I think Ishmael meant politics isn’t a game, in the first response.

            In the second I think he was expressing a view, as he says, about your contributions lately, especially on Corbyn. It wasn’t about politics so he didn’t contradict himself.
            In any case, I’m surprised you’re focused so heavily on Corbyn lately when, in Scottish politics, there’s so much on the SNP conference not debating a second Indyref2 and moves afoot for a demonstration at the conference to call for a date. There are articles suggesting that the normally united front in the Party is crumbling and splits are developing. Again it seems to be all about Indyref2. Nicola Sturgeon is under a lot of pressure. Some of us up here are quite worried about the whole mess, about Brexit and about NHS staff shortages all over Scotland in response to which both Nicola and the previous Health Minister frequently said, “But it’s worse in England and Wales!”
            I’m surprised you’re more concerned about Corbyn. As someone who voted YES myself, I’m very concerned about the situation for the SNP because there’s something brewing between those who want Indyref2 and those who believe it is far too soon and, more importantly, that it too will be lost. In some quarters it’s being said that Sturgeon needs to go.
            Maybe you’re happier to think how much worse it is for Corbyn and insist that Labour’s dead in Scotland. Maybe you’re happier bullying Ishmael than facing the difficulties up here. That’s a shame. For while you might think Labour is dead here that doesn’t mean SNP seats are safe, especially at Holyrood. Remember too that after Nicola threw Indyref2 into the mix after the Brexit vote she promptly lost 21 MPs at May’s snap election! She has, ever since, been backpedaling on the same issue. It’s a mess all over and now it’s a mess for her own Party.

          • Clark

            Jo1, excellent comment. I know there’s strong anti-Labour feeling in the SNP, and I think Corbyn inherited it from Labour in Scotland’s betrayal of the Independence Movement. As for the SNP’s loss of Westminster MPs, it should be remembered that the previous result was an absolute landslide; exceptional, so the more recent losses are mostly an inevitable statistical effect called “regression to the mean”:


    • Mary Paul

      Why are feminists (I assume they would say they are) support wearing the burka?. Speaking as a feminist, I don’t buy the right to choose argument. I think it is a symbol of oppression and should be banned. You can demonstrate your piety by wearing a headscarf, without covering your face. But in any case Boris said Muslim women should be allowed to choose to wear it, he just disagreed with their choice.

      • Clark

        Oh let’s not ban anything else! Are any of these the sort of feminists who’d have all women dress in potato sacks to prevent men getting the slightest sexual feeling from seeing them? You’re lucky they’re not asking that it be made compulsory!

        • Rhys Jaggar

          I am quite happy for uber feminists to dress in ill-fitting clothes. Nothing worse than fancying the arse off a woman you subsequently discover has a mind and personality which makes you want to puke.

          It gives them fuel for unjustifiably calling you a misogynist. Thing is: if women want to be respected for their mind, their soul etc, then men must make a judgement on those things. One possible outcome is: ‘what a c**t!’ Just one of those unfortunate byproducts of a free society…..

          Plenty of feminists hold trenchant views on the worth of various men after all.

          Much better never to be attracted to them in the first place. Then you likely as not will not personally confront their darker underbelly.

      • Paul Barbara

        @ Mary Paul August 18, 2018 at 19:58
        Boris Johnson can’t be trusted, especially to post a letter.

  • Ishmael

    I hate to say I said this would happen, But …

    I was all over twitter at the time, telling the left. But they all said the same, No this is “anti-semitsum” Like fu-in parrots. Like I was some space alien.

    Give an inch. I could see them getting tied up in this balls. The thing is they didn’t need any encouragement, They jumped on in like a dam opportunity. Yes the Murals obviously so & so. Then talked about it days on end. virtue signalising. This as Palestinians where being shot dead for protesting, O yes one or two tweets for that, then back to “the issue”…

    But it’s me, me who was the obviously uneducated, I need to go and visit the holocaust museum, then i’d understand.

    sigh…Yes JC we all agree, & have some rope, ..But fear not, we will shortly follow. I think Owen was the first, “I’m glad JC has acknowledged” etc etc.

    • Ishmael

      One even said to me this simply is “the issue of the day”…

      As others where actually being shot. “unfortunate timing” someone said…

      Well it’s so heartening to see the left has it’s priorities straight…

  • Paul Barbara

    Caitlin Johnstone’s Twitter account was suspended, but apparently due to the furore has been reinstated:
    ‘Twitter Bans Anti-War Activist Caitlin Johnstone For “Abusing” John McCain’:
    Simple trick, really. The old ‘boiling frags’ scenario; suspend or ban someone a lot of people don’t like, then after they all praise the act, go on to the others.

      • Tony_0pmoc


        I hope Craig has a good time at Beautiful Days festival. Nearly 10 years ago, we bought tickets for that festival about 9 months in advance. We had forgotten the actual dates, and had booked flights, accomodations, ferries for a Greek Island hopping holiday, for the same time. We sold the tickets on ebay for the price we had paid….

        Then we go to Greece, and almost everything went wrong. We missed ferries, turned up at pre-booked accommodation, who had no record of us, and for some bizarre reason we decided to go home via Athens Piraeus, where I got mugged. They stole all our money, cards etc. My wife fortunately had the tickets and passports in her rucksack, but she had no money. We tried to report it to the Greek police at the airport, and they said, you need to go to the main police station. It was several miles away. I said how do we get there – all our money has been stolen? Shrug of shoulders – as if – stupid English.

        But thanks to my wife, we still had our flight tickets, and our passports.

        We had never been so glad to get home.

        I realised it was a waste of time, trying to claim anything on the travel insurance.

        Sh1t happens.

        We should have gone to Beautiful Days instead.

        This was in 2009. Even then, it was quite obvious what was happenning to Greece, and now much of the rest of Europe.

        We should be out tonight, but in some weird kind of synchronicity, my wife is not well – probably down to food poisoning.

        I personally never fancied Oysters, but we are going back to Greece in a few weeks time.

        We love The Greek people.


        • Clark

          Thanks for the story Tony. No, I’ve always found the though of oysters pretty off-putting too. I hope you have a better time in Greece this time!

  • Sharp Ears

    Jim Sheridan, former Lab MP Paisley and Renfrewshire N. He lost his seat in 2015 to a SNP candidate.

    He was partial to numerous paid for foreign trips – China, Azerbaijan, Mexico, Saudi Arabia (cultural exchange!) and so on

    He did stand up in 2006.

    ‘Following the 2005 election, he was appointed as a Parliamentary Private Secretary in the Ministry of Defence. He resigned this post on 9 August 2006 in protest at the Government’s policy on the 2006 Israel-Lebanon conflict, particularly the permitting of aircraft carrying US weapons for Israel to refuel in the UK.’

    That dreadful Becket woman was the Foreign Secretary. She remained mute on what Israel was doing to Lebanon. She had succeeded Straw.
    Des Browne! was the Defence secretary. He had succeeded Reid.

    Blair was PM.

    ‘On 18 August 2018 he was suspended from the Labour Party pending investigation, following a Facebook post that was anti-Semitic:

    ‘For almost all my adult life I have had the utmost respect and empathy for the Jewish community and their historic suffering. No longer due to what they and their Blairite plotters are doing to my party and the long suffering people of Britain who need a radical Labour government.’

    Spot on Jim.

    • Paul Barbara

      @ Sharp Ears August 18, 2018 at 18:48
      Absolutely agree with him; if he had worded it slightly differently, it might still have got the suspension, but would at least have been more accurate: instaed of’ ‘the J^wish community’, it should have been ‘some of the J^wish community’.
      There are many who are just as fed up and sickened by the smears as anyone else, and aren’t afraid to say so.
      Unfortunately, generally the most prominent and loud-mouthed of them, along with Bliarites and the MSM, have a vested interest in keeping a Corbyn Labour government out, and anti-Se^itism is just a bludgeon of a smear to assist their agenda.

  • Paul Barbara

    Kinda puts things in perspective:
    Why shouldn’t ‘Labour’ supporters of I^rael be banned for bringing the Labour Party into disrepute, by supporting and being an apologist for cold-blooded murder of unarmed protesters?
    And for supporting I^rael for all the crimes of illegal annexation of Palestinian lands, and the Syrian Golan Heights, and the West Bank, and East Jerusalem?
    And if anyone seriously puts forward the idiotic idea in Parliament that JC should be banned for a while, how about all those who voted for the illegal Iraq war? Or who are now OK’ing the continued supply of weaponry to Saudi Arabia and it’s bunch of War Criminal crony ‘Coalitiion’ genocidists?
    Or even for deposing a certain entity for wining and dining despots and mega-murderers on a frequent basis over her long, illustrious life?

    • Clark

      Yes, party discipline should cover those as well. Some party needs to get its act together and it isn’t likely to be the Tories.

      • Shatnersrug

        Until we have control of the NEC that is not going to happen. There are an awful lot of impatient people in the Labour Party on the left. They see how hard the fight is but the moment we come up against a wall they threaten to leave. Rome was not built in a day and it took thirty years for the party to get this fucked, it isn’t going to be unfucked overnight. BUT the surest way for it to return to the way it was is for the new members to flounce off when the going gets tough.

        I mean we’re only fighting a propaganda war at the moment. If one doesn’t think the possibility of bumping off Mr JC hasn’t been discussed at high levels by some folk one is extremely naive.

        What concerns me most though is just how mild the Labour manifesto is, the fact that the powers that be are shitting themselves over it is extremely worrying. I mean what the hell do they have planned for us if state intervention and economic stimulation that will probably make them all richer isn’t good enough??!!

        • Clark

          OK, I’ve got my Candidate Booklet here; what’s your take on getting control of the NEC? There are ten candidates who stand out because they each got over 170 CLP Nominations, while the next nearest got 68. All nine of the original Momentum recommendations are among them. Is the danger vote-splitting because voting is unordered so counting is without run-offs?

          As for the propaganda, I feel it’s best not to over-react. It’s been going on for ages now; I think a lot of people are less than convinced, or at least bored. It’s a bit like the novichok thing; so uninformative it’s not worth taking notice of.

        • Paul Barbara

          @ Shatnersrug August 18, 2018 at 23:01
          !A luta continua! The struggle continues!
          Of course JC is getting the PTB worried, and yes they may pull a John Smith or a Michael Meacher or a JFK on him.
          He is obviously aware of that ‘possibility’. So must be his close friends and advisers.
          Our task is to support JC, and if they do pull that malarchy, support whoever follows his path (admittedly, a hard act to follow).

        • Dungroanin

          Go look at the Annie Machon site on how 5 collected personal files on ‘subversives’ that in any way had interactions with persons/organisations that could be in any way be said to be against the national interest (a still legally undefined – therefore catch all excuse).

          All of us who have inhabited this space and other sites with any of our non acceptance of the propaganda – probably have modern digital PF’s – automatically generated, with inaccurate AI from GCHQ and Israeli data management. The 5 eyes are nowt without the One big eye to rule over them.

          With our digital life and financial reliance, when they come after us it will be as easy as pulling the plug on our access to these things.

          They won’t need trucks and midnight raids to gather us – we will be forced to walk into interment to be able to eat and argue for reinstallation of our lives.

          To take executive actions against us, assassins will be deployed using any number of drones in the sky, as the AI, facial recognition, stance recognition, other auto metric sensor on every lampost identifies us and we are shot by some brainwashed religious freaks from their offices in their home lands – they will eat, sleep, pray, play and be home for dinner with their families as thousands of miles away they have violently despatched these who have not voluntarily renounced support for JC and the common socialist causes.

          I don’t mean to say that we should therefore surrender or that we will fail.

          Infact i believe that victory is all but guaranteed – but that there will be blows and we shall have to suffer them. Perhaps many of us will be hurt or worse. But peaceful protest, as Gandhi showed, doesn’t mean the oppressors respond peacefully. But they FAIL the moment they use violence.

          The new members of the Labour Party and the future members will have to understand that it is not a foreign army threatening to invade us it is OUR own, who are now actual mercenaries (seriously look at how many private security companies owned and staffed by our ex SAS/ MI types exist).

          I expect membership will pass a million, maybe a lot more, as the attacks intensify and indeed turn deadly.

      • Ishmael

        I’v been listening to Orwell, Catalonia. The audiobook is very good. Some funny moments. Not quite Spike Milligan but yea.

      • Ishmael

        “Rats that make the Laws’

        So what’s new?

        “What kind of things are you that deliver papers
        White papers that you say apply to me
        Reams of rules constructed for protection
        Protection for yourselves, but not for me
        You hide behind your walls of bureaucracy
        I find that you’ve nothing to do with me

        I opened up my eyes, and saw to my surprise
        Monsters in disguise, wearing bowler hats and old school ties..”

    • Paul Barbara

      @ Ishmael August 18, 2018 at 19:30
      See the compromised Red Army Faction (and their Italian equivalent) in relation to ‘Operation Gladio’.
      Or to our present UK ‘Stop the War’.

  • Radar O’Reilly

    This media-bribed argument in silly-season, naked soft-assassination attempt, has swept up a Conservative too.

    the short news article linked is one of the few to actually mention the full title of the conference!, I wonder why that is?

    the “International Conference on Monitoring The Palestinian Political And Legal Situation In The Light Of Israeli Aggression” in Tunis

    Personally, in Craig’s absence, I’m enjoying articles on the surveillance techniques deployed against charismatic pop-stars and the like , here Woody Guthrie, more of an icon than a star. Do we have the Lennon files yet under foia?

    Lyrics at

  • Tony_0pmoc

    According to Jonathan Cook, and Gilad Atzmon is hinting at it…

    Jeremy Corbyn has lost it.

    If so I have absolutely no one to vote for, which has been fairly normal for most of the last 10 years or so.

    This is sad.

    “Corbyn’s Labour Party is Being Made to Fail: by Design”

    “Jews, Logic and Corbyn”

    I guess Alethonews is Greek

    Great Resource.


  • Ishmael

    Basically, NONE, of the politicians in our society, north or south, left or right. Have ANY moral high ground to speak on ANYTHING.

    For decades they have totally ignored the plight of Palestine, yes they presume to raise their head.

    Shame, utter shame. All the press, all the politicians. 99.99 %

    Morality basically doesn’t come into politics. Not real morality. Just think about that.

    • Paul Barbara

      @ Ishmael August 18, 2018 at 23:52
      Well morality has certainly come into politics with Jeremy Corbyn – that is why he is under attack from rats of all persuasions.
      Don’t condemn him for sometimes buckling a little under the pressure – not everyone is Jesus, or Mahatma Gandhi (he was also assassinated under the auspices of the Brits).

  • nevermind

    Tony your concern of JC’s popularity, not diminished after two years of of slinging muck, still advancing at 40% plus, is misplaced.
    you should be questioning the Tory party and their reliance on paramilitary factions from NI their utter failure over getting the best deal possible for the UK, their fake novichoking of the MSM et al, their failure to look after disabled and needy people, not like you, but people that need help.

    BTW. How is frog gate preceding? Are you filling in an established habitat for frogs with rubble?

    You entered this subject Tony, try keeping up with yourself. Concert/Congress tickets vs. Toddlers h&s and frog preservation in their environment.

    What a sustainable Yorkshire example to us all…?

    • Kerch'eee Kerch'ee Coup

      Our concern for the frogs is perhaps prompted by the realization that we are the ones being slowly boiled by the masive heating force of lies,innuendo and propagada. As to politics in the south of these islands,wehave at lmost all elections between blue Tories and redTories andonly the fwwho live in Islington can actually vote for Jeremy, who waslong supported there by the local chosen ones’ vote including the backing of Chabad Lubaivitch.
      The Labour partyof NyeBevan and Ernie Bevin , along with Low’s TGU carthorses, lives only as a folk memory. As in much of Europe, it is up to us as individuals to work to fashion a better society from below.Sarah Wagenknecht’s new grouping in Germany and Yanis Vanoufrakis’s movement for rebuilding the EU(meetingin Belgrad next month) seem promising.
      Congratulations to Austrian FM Kneissel on her weddingin Styria, graced by Vlad Putin as guest. Certainly boosted her popularity and let us see the so hoflich und gemutlich President has no iron teeth.Thou ohHappy Austria marries as others(Eu , Us etc) would make war.

      • Sharp Ears

        Dubya, as a child, inserted firecrackers into frogs’ rectums, lit them and had a good time watching what happened.

        • Charles Bostock

          And Krushchev recalled in his memoirs how he had fun swinging cats round by their tail and smashing their heads against a wall.

      • Charles Bostock

        “The Labour partyof NyeBevan and Ernie Bevin , along with Low’s TGU carthorses, lives only as a folk memory.”

        How many people remember that those two gentleman were pro the UK having nuclear weapons?

        Ernie Bevin insisted that the UK should develop nuclear weapons (“it’s got to have the bloody Union Jack on it” (late 1940s) and Nye Bevan moaned “I won’t go naked into the conference chamber” (late 1950s).

  • Ishmael

    Can’t we just all go and make their life hell. How does everyone let them continue going to work. How do they have a public life? Any of the press & 99% of politicians.

    I think it’s all the money that flows into london. People on the left down south would sooner interview them than spit at them. like this is all some legitimate process that’s taking place. No. this is abuse, and they are complicit in murder.

    It’s like they can disrupt US, bully US all they like, and we just sit and take it. I’m getting very sick of it.

    How long do we just sit around.

    • Paul Barbara

      @ Carlyle Moulton August 19, 2018 at 00:42
      Given the present climate, he could have been slightly more circumspect in the wording – many of the J^wish community actually support Jeremy Corbyn, and know darn well that the smears are just that:
      ‘IT’S A TRICK, WE ALWAYS USE IT says former ISRAELI MINISTER’: (Shulamit Aloni):

      • Ishmael

        15% ? And how many of them are the “jewish community” as far as the official jewish narrative goes? They are out of the conversation.

        It was a generalisation. It’s ridiculous he is suspended for this.

        • Paul Barbara

          @ Ishmael August 19, 2018 at 01:48
          We are on the same side here, but in the minefield that has been laid, it pays to be super-precise with words.
          And to avoid accidental ‘double entendres’, not that that is relevant in this instance.

          • Ishmael

            I know.

            But you know what matters?

            The dead children. …So I may hear the words your saying but it’s all passing over my head somewhat.

    • Clark

      I hope that Jim Sheridan posted in haste, and will now repent at leisure.

      This is NOT about the “J_wish community” except to the extent that the ‘news’ media has claimed to speak on its behalf, and I think that, on sober reflection, Jim Sheridan will agree.

  • giyane

    Talking of minefields, today is one of nine days fasting prior to Eid Qurbani/Sacrifice Eid which will be on Tuesday inshallah. So you’d have thought the mosque would fast, not try to use the time to promote its jihadist agenda.

    This week the BBC pooper-scooped a recording by a Libyan imam in Manchester calling for the West to intervene in Syria, like it did in Libya. Dog-owners have to clean up their own dogs’ mess. The UK not only prepares jihadists, as well as its own special forces, in cruelty by the process called torture-rendition-brainwashing. The process is to break down or rendition the mind by torture, then apply psychotic drugs which target the areas of the brain which are under stress from the torture, and thus permanently delete part of the programming of the brain which deals with compassion and suffering.

    So the Zionist BBC is only pooper-scooping its own victims of Zionist rendition , by which they get the imams to rely on the West instead of Allah. The jihadists who have been re-programmed by the Zionists would be at least 2 million people if not more. The programme of rendition is known to have been started by USUKIS in Afghanistan following the false flag attack on the Twin Towers + 1, but in reality it has probably been in use since Victorian times or longer, using different chemicals such as alcohol etc.

    We all know that the Qur’an calls for jihad in the cause of truth. But the justifications used for the jihad in our time are not the same as those that apply in the Qur’an. I have it from the horse’s mouth that the justification that Al Qaida uses for killing innocent Muslims is because they have formed political alliances with the dictators. You and me also obey the laws of the society we live in, which is run by war-mongering Zionists who have engaged in 30 years of continuous war against Islam and the Muslims. So the justification used by the jihadists also works against them: i.e. that they have formed a political alliance with a superior military force, the West, instead of with its wholly-owned pet dictators like Assad and Saddam.

    Al Qaida say that Islam tells them to kill the Muslims who make political alliances with the enemies of Islam before attacking the actual enemies of Islam. So, in an unfair, tribal society with all power being devolved from the dictator, and the dictator deriving their power from the enemies of Islam, the argument that you should kill all those who engage with the dictator, even down to paying the council a levy for running a burger bar, is like saying that anyone who runs a shop and pays council tax could be murdered without any displeasure from Allah.

    Dog-trash, dogtrash dogtrash.

    The specious arguments used by modern jihadist scholars to justify the alliance of political Islam with the historical colonial powers against their historical colonial dictators is dogtrash. Millions of Muslims have died, suffered homelessness or injury because of these false ideas, which are in essence the product of Zionist torture rendition brainwashing, nothing evenly remotely like the teachings of Islam.

    The imam who like to read the verses of the Qur’an about jihad would do well to learn a bit more about politics, in my humble opinion.

    • Ishmael

      You take out “your” Imams …You can call it? ..O I dunno. ..Jihad (what are they going to moan about “the law”?)

      And we will take out every right wing preacher & press Barron. (who the establishment like to keep round as idealogical ballast) …And we will call it western civilisation. A rich tradition or reformation & revolution.


  • Radar O’Reilly

    I can let you into a secret, the name of an Mi5 officer, who later also worked for Mi6. He’s just been interviewed on NPR, American National Public Radio. He’s written a bit about things, and sums up our current ‘mess’

    LE CARRE: I think because back then, we had a clear philosophy which we thought we were protecting, and it was a notion of the West. It was a notion of individual freedom, of inclusiveness, of tolerance. All of that we called anti-communism. That was really a broad brush because there were many decent people who lived in communist territories who weren’t as bad as one might suppose.

    But now, today, this present time in which these matters are being reconsidered…, we seem to have no direction. We seem to be joined by nothing very much, except fear and bewilderment about what the future holds. We have no coherent ideology in the West, and we used to believe in the great American example. I think that’s recently been profoundly undermined for us. We’re alone.

    David John Moore Cornwell does talk a little about his life as a spy, faking & lying about things to people, and he poses a rhetorical question about how difficult it must be for todays officers to try to counter radical islam. [If that’s what they are doing by supporting Saudi Arabian head-choppers]

    USA source: still haven’t understood ‘privacy’ yet – so a bit of GDPR-wall contortions to get thru –

    • fwl

      He is worth listening to and reading a Tom Wolf of the world of Spooks. His choice of Le Carre is curious. Squaring Le Circle?

    • giyane

      [If that’s what they are doing by supporting Saudi Arabian head-choppers]

      Divide and rule.

    • Ishmael

      Contra-points (YouTube) “the west”

      Only the establishment have a “WE”..Who seriously, working in some factory, taking care of every day issues, has any such notions?

      Do they walk around with their eyes wide shut? It’s religious racist dogma that leads the establishment. It’s the glue that sticks THEM together. Sod all to do with reality of life. And they know this.

      “We” are not lost, they are. They must try and justify what they do so must reference some fantasy. Ring any bells?

      They are the mirror image of the fundamentalists, hi-tech terrorist religious freaks.

      Not a secret really.

    • Jo

      He makes a reference to a deception operation…..and in one of his later books he comes across as very cynical of his intelligence service….the pointlessness of a lot of it….since his time could the intelligence serrvces become so perverted that le Carre could believe as to for example instigating Skripal ……one wonders…..

  • Sharp Ears

    In. Germany – great anxiety not to criticize or upset Israel

    Classical music censored for Israel
    The Electronic Intifada
    17 August 2018

    ‘Wieland Hoban is a 40-year-old Anglo-German composer and translator (notably of works by the philosophers Theodor Adorno and Peter Sloterdijk) based in Germany.

    Hoban’s aims as a composer, his website tells us, only “occasionally incorporat[e] ideas from other arts or extra-musical areas.”

    Such an area is Palestine, which Hoban evoked in a pair of compositions, Rules of Engagement I and II, dealing with Israel’s 2008-2009 onslaught on Gaza, which were performed in Berlin in 2013 and 2014 to small audiences without controversy.

    However, when Hoban approached Björn Gottstein, the director of the legendary Donaueschingen music festival in southwest Germany, with a proposal for a third work in the cycle he was met not just with rejection but with the following statement, as paraphrased by Hoban: “although [Gottstein] gave composers a free hand in their use of political content, he would not tolerate any criticism of Israel at the festival and would prevent the appearance of any piece on the program that contained such criticism.”’

    Remembering this:

    Ahead of summer fests, Scotland’s new pro-Israel network stands guard
    Israelis performing at the Edinburgh Fringe Festival during last summer’s Gaza war faced a wall of pro-Palestinian protesters. This year a new confederation of friends won’t let that happen
    5 August 2015,

    and other instances too.

    • giyane

      Yesterday the BBC reported that Germany has a long list of demands for Russia in the settlement of Syria. Of course they do. Germany has been running the war on behalf of the Muslim Brotherhood, with the message that the terror will not cease until the Syrian people capitulate and accept the authority of the freemasonry over them.

      Fortunately we brits have divided and ruled the Western elites by means of Brexit and Trump wants to drain the neo-con swamp so Russia is in full control of Syria now. Merckel and the British generals want publicly to be heard saying that they don’t want the terrorists in Idlib to be destroyed, because they do really not want any blow-back from their own poisonous proxies.. However Russia will apply the same ruthless lack of mercy on the terrorists as they showed to the Syrian people. That was the sole purpose of their going into the war in the first place and they are not going to reverse their purpose for the sake of a few Hubris Johnson porkies about novichok.

      The world that has forgotten about Raqqa and Mosul will soon forget about Idlib with a huge sigh of relief. The generals of a failed British empire and inheritors of a failed German fascism will just have to cry their crocodile tears that they lost this cruel war against the Syrian people.

  • Sharp Ears

    16 days to go for the troughers to return to Pugin’s Palace and the Brexit pot is coming to the boil. Hope The has her spoon ready to stop it boiling over.

    Fashion millionaire subs campaign for a second vote with a £1m pledge.

    Fashion boss gives £1m boost to People’s Vote campaign
    Superdry co-founder Julian Dunkerton calls for new Brexit poll and says fear is growing about prospect of no deal

    Farage is all over the shop and plans a tour.

    Blair and Mandelson are behind this.

    • giyane

      Ha ha ha. The failed leader of a non-existent party goes to the Farage to get a cold beer can.
      “Somebody’s pinched my lager. There’s nothing left in this can. Whoever the culprit is will pay for this. That’s my racist lager, not Rees-Mogg’s and other Tory slimebags. ”

      Not sure why Blair would fund Farage. I’ll have to put my evil-thought cap on. Mmmm Blair Farage Blair Farage. No evil scumbag dark side of politics coming immediately to mind. Maybe I’m missing something.

  • Sharp Ears

    I saw this too on the Observer website and recalled Craig’s piece on Arbuthnot.

    ‘Judge in Uber’s London legal battle steps aside over husband’s links to firm
    Emma Arbuthnot, who gave a licence back to Uber, acts over potential conflict of interest
    18 Aug 2018
    London cab drivers protest against Uber in central London in 2016.

    The judge at the heart of tech giant Uber’s legal battle to operate in London has stepped aside to avoid any perceived conflict of interest.

    Emma Arbuthnot, the chief magistrate whose judgment reinstated Uber’s London licence after it was judged not a “fit and proper” private car hire operator, has withdrawn from hearing further appeals by the company after an Observer investigation raised questions into links between her husband’s work and the company.’

    All Pretence is Over in Persecution of Assange
    6 months ago

    The “judge” who dismissed Assange’s case yesterday was “Lady Arbuthnot of Edrom”, wife to Tory peer, former Tory junior Defence Minister and government whip Lord James Arbuthnot. Not to mention Chairman of the Conservative Friends of Israel. Arbuthnot was naturally Eton educated, the son of Major Sir John Sinclair Wemyss Arbuthnot. Of course Lady Arbuthnot’s children were all sent to Eton too.’

    It’s high time she packed it in. Too many conflicts of interests. 😉

    • giyane

      Wasn’t it Arbuthnot’s husband who planted an olive tree in stolen Palestinian land? Tit for tat, against Corbyn planting a wreath on someone’s grave. If that’s the worst they can dig up on Corbyn he wins against Windrush May hands down.

      • Sharp Ears

        Maybe not an olive tree Giyane. The Israelis bulldoze them or cut and burn them in Palestinian groves, some hundreds of years old..

        Arbuthnot planted a tree in a JNF forest. Conifers are usually planted creating a fire risk incidentally. The forests were created (mainly with donations from foreign supporters) over the remains of Palestinian villages which had been razed to the ground by the Occupiers.

        p 21 on this jolly CFoI pdf. 2014/2015 with Agent Cameron on the cover. Theresa gets a mention too.
        ’36 JNF Jerusalem Tree Planting Ceremony Rt. Hon. James Arbuthnot MP

        Jonathan Cook quotes Craig ref Arbuthnot.

        Arbuthnot has a great interest in trees, especially his own.
        James Arbuthnot claimed £2,750 for tree surgery at £2m home
        A senior Conservative MP claimed £2,750 in expenses for tree surgery at his £2m Berkshire mansion, despite the work being carried out during the previous financial year.

        His wife went on some of these paid for holidays. Are they not vile people?

        Shameless Tory MP takes FIVE free foreign trips in five months as he’s ‘winding down’
        James Arbuthnot skipped Commons sessions to enjoy the all-expenses-paid jaunts that cost £11,000 between July and November
        23 JAN 2015

    • Radar O’Reilly

      I’ll join you M in forensically reading the Observer/Guardian website. My attention was sadly drawn to an ‘orange-idiot’ hypocritical attack piece, masquerading as relevant news. (why do we in UK/EU bother with Atlantic happenings?)

      The link:

      Where is the balancing article? [404 propaganda]

      It is so easy to show the current Guardian bias, their article founded on opinions, spooky-squirrel-lies, and counter with a legal judicial motion. Not an opinion. Not ‘a biased state of mind’ which seems to have contaminated 50% of the Intelligence Community, in their outbreak of mass-hysteria.

      Karl Rove in Newsweek (yes, that Rove) opines sensibly, but again partially Brennan as well as the Obama administration were at fault for not creating a policy that could have withstood Russia’s interference in 2016 What about all the other interference?

      But back to the Judicial bit,

      Mi6 Steele again! Court orders! Why no Grauniad coverage?, Pablo isn’t mentioned, Skripalgate neither. Yet.

      “This [judicial] ruling represents another incremental step in revealing just how much the FBI has been able to verify or discredit the rather personal allegations contained in that synopsis derived from the Steele dossier,” said Brad Moss, a lawyer pressing the lawsuit for the pro-transparency group, the James Madison Project.

      It could of course still bite the ‘orange-idiot’ as if there is any veracity in the Mi6 Steele report (which the F.B.I. seemingly did not pay Steele $50K for, as they had agreed to do so if it was true,) “It will be rather ironic if the president’s peripheral actions that resulted in this ruling wind up disclosing that the FBI has been able to corroborate any of the ‘salacious’ allegations.” Continued Brad, the transparency lawyer.

      Links that reflect on the 13-page judgement:

      The ‘Bulgarian’ ‘financial-doom’ website ZH also has the full scribd judgement and an opinion piece. Read widely and wisely. /*Some of my above musings are satire/*

      • Nick

        Thanks for that – interesting read. I believe Craig has a lot more information on what’s going on at the moment than he has hitherto shared. He’s friends with Assange isn’t he and I heard a recent radio interview with Assange where it was briefly brought up that Craig had received information from a disgruntled DNC source.

        Can’t confirm, but here is the link: [7.30 onwards]

        It’s just a gut feeling but if it unravels one way in the US, we’ll see some very interesting strings being tugged here in the UK

    • Sharp Ears

      A poem by a Palestinian refugee who lives in the US.

      Thinking of Spring in Palestine
      by Mike Odetalla / April 16th, 2008
      (+ a beautiful photo of almond trees in blossom)

      What benefit or joy if,

      I were to gain the world,
      But lose the almond blossoms in my land?

      Drink a cup of coffee, everyplace
      But my mother’s home

      Journey to the moon,
      But not to the graves of my ancestors

      See the world’s wonders,
      But not the setting sun as it dips behind ancient olive groves

      Tour the world over,
      But lose the flowers on the hills of my native land

      Nothing but lethal silence…

      No need to gain the world

      Just a cup of coffee
      In a familiar place and
      An end to the lethal silence

      Within the hearts of the living…

      It’s even more poignant ten years on since I first read it.

  • Dave

    I looked at a link provided by Tony-Opmoc @ Aug 18th, 22.53 about Corbyn @ Aletho News and read “Three Mile Island, Global Warming and the CIA and remembered making the following observations some time ago.

    UK Trident isn’t independent as the missile head is made and maintained by US. This is a disputed point but likely if only because US law wouldn’t allow nuclear weapons to be sold to another country in case they were used against US.

    So when UK government announces renewal of Trident they are announcing the renewal of US nuclear weapons. But since Three Mile Island, US doesn’t have a nuclear power industry to sustain a nuclear weapons programme due to skills and costs involved as opposed to the ‘nuclear material’ needed.

    So now unpopular nuclear power is promoted under the guise of saving the planet from Man Made Atmospheric Global Warming and thus UK nuclear programme is to assist with the renewal of US nuclear weapons, making supporters of Man-Made Atmospheric Global Warming the useful idiots of the nuclear weapons proliferation lobby.

    And Trump’s America First, reopen the mines, will act against nuclear proliferation, because why do you need nuclear power when you have coal and gas which is a rich resource for many things in an industrial economy.

    That is not to say there may be forms of nuclear power and other technology that are practical alternatives to fossil fuel, but as things stand, in UK, the government preferred nuclear power policy at Hinckley Point is part and parcel of their nuclear proliferation, renewal of Trident, policy, so arguing for nuclear power in this context, means de facto supporting the government’s nuclear weapons proliferation policy.

    • Sharp Ears

      Does anyone know how Hinckley Point is progressing, if at all? Are the Chinese still investing?

    • Loony

      Thanks for letting everyone know that the “US doesn’t have a nuclear power industry to sustain a nuclear weapons programme due to skills and costs involved as opposed to the ‘nuclear material’ needed”

      Until I read your comment I had been under the impression that the US had the worlds single largest installed nuclear capacity accounting for over 30% of total global capacity.

      I foolishly believed that about 20% of total US generation derived from nuclear sources and that the US had 99 operational nuclear reactors. Even more foolishly I was under the impression that since 2007 some 16 licence applications had been made to cover the construction of 24 new nuclear plants and that a 2.5GW plant was under construction in Georgia.

      I guess it just goes to show the prevalence of fake news and what can be learned from experts such as yourself.

      • Dave

        Yes I was a bit rash there and overstated the point. The US has a substantial nuclear power industry mostly installed prior to the Three Mile Island accident that threatened to end the construction of new nuclear power stations, particularly in view of cheaper alternatives and nearly did! But more recently in the era of “Global Warming” and following US plans to renew their nuclear weapons, more stations have been commissioned under the guise of being a solution to climate change, despite the extra costs involved. But I’m sure the US will share UK nuclear research and skills, particularly as Trident is a US weapon with Union Flag on top for show.

        • Clark

          I expect Loony is about right on this. Wouldn’t you expect the US to have probably the strongest nuclear industry in the world? I would; after all, they have lots and lots of nuclear weapons, nuclear powered submarines and aircraft carriers. Their companies have sold nuclear power stations all over the world. Thatcher’s argument was that the UK should buy US power stations rather than developing its own, and the reactors which blew up and melted down at Fukushima were US reactors.

        • Loony

          No Wikipedia is not my source.

          However the fact that Wikipedia agrees with me indicates that in this instance Wikipedia is probably correct.

          Do you actually have some point to make? It is not obvious why you would seek to challenge the fact the number of operational nuclear reactors in the US. It is pretty straightforward to count them.

          • pete

            It is the source of the information I wished to know, I am suspicious of unsupported assertions, also some sources are disingenuous or misleading, Wikipedia is sometimes guilty of this, see for examples of disputes. In addition phrases like “operational nuclear reactors” tells us nothing about what stage of life that reactor is in, “24 new nuclear plants” suggests a growing trend, is it, or are they just replacing clapped out plants?
            As usual more questions than answers than could possibly be resolve here, you may be correct but, I would still like to know your source.

          • Clark

            Average age of reactor fleets are increasing the world over; it’s a well known safety concern. The replacement rate will lead to contraction, I believe, but China is probably bucking that trend.

  • Dave

    It may just be part of MSM fake news that Labour are intending to adopt the IHMA’s anti-Semitic definition of anti-Semitism in full, to (some hope) appease the lobby, but if so, hopefully they will add to it by including attacks on Palestinians and Arabs as further examples of anti-Semitism.

    • giyane

      Labour will have to do as mummy says, cos civil war in the Tory party means that Corbyn might get a visit to the Queen soon. Then he can go for a walk on his own somewhere and die Robin Cook and a useful Blairite idiot can be brought in. They’ re even better at bombing foreign countries than Hague and Cameron.

  • HippoDave

    Are you dead, dude? Maybe toked too much meth or something on your festival and are now in a ditch somewhere and there are people like “where is Craig”, maybe in a ditch? I mean that’s a nice festival and kudos to you for that. Kudos too for “speaking truth to power” and etc.

    I don’t feel the need to give any more nuance to your life or positions…since you are seemingly DEAD!!! The uh, corpus of your studies and facts and moral position against evil will go on though; you will be remembered.

    • giyane

      Maybe Craig is visiting Rohinga with Nadira. I wonder if he’ll find out that the Saudis trained 300,000 Rohinga men in jihad which sparked off the racist atrocities against the women and children. Saud’s law I suppose that everything they touch goes up in flames.

      • HippoDave

        Yeah, okay. Buddhists are also assholes. Craig Murray’s corpse is apparently lying in a ditch decomposing though.

        Even as Craig rises to the Heaven I doubt he’ll put a thumb down acknowledging some idiotic thing such as “the Saudis trained 300,000 Rohinga men in jihad”.

    • Sharp Ears

      Maybe he’s stranded. Network Rail this weekend, Great country.

      London Euston station closure
      Due to extensive engineering works on the West Coast route, London Euston will be closed with no services to or from the station on:

      18-19 August 2018, 25-27 August 2018 (Bank Holiday weekend) and 1-2 September 2018.

      We highly recommend that you avoid travelling on these dates unless absolutely necessary. If travel is essential, then we suggest travelling either side of the weekend – all Friday tickets after 9:30am on these weekends are available at Off-Peak prices so, while we can’t save you the hassle, at least we can save you some money

      If you choose to travel on these dates, you’ll need to plan carefully and allow longer to get to your destination. We’d hate for you to get caught up, so please check before you travel.’

      ex Mr Branson’s website – Virgin Trains.

      • Charles Bostock

        There are complaints when the private rail companies don’t carry out repairs and maintenance of their networks.

        So it is good to see that there are also complaints when the private rail companies do carry out repairs and maintenance of their networks.

        It would be good however if that work could be carried out on the 8th, 9th and 9th days of the week sometime between the 25th and 35th hours of the day.

      • Sharp Ears

        Network Rail are carrying out the engineering work.

        I don’t think the spiv Branson’s lot is capable of more than pushing a few buttons.

        • Charles Bostock

          In which case, why did you say “ex Mr Branson’s website – Virgin Trains.”

  • Ishmael

    Does anyone know off hand where in the UK those weapons that killed those school children where manufactured?

  • MaryPaul

    A couple of years ago. the Old Man and I went to stay with an old friend in Guernsey for a week. A successful businessman. he was lamenting the death of the Guernsey tomato growing industry, forced out of business by the Dutch. He had had a sideline in growing tomatoes which he had been forced to close a year or two earlier and greenhouses were standing empty all over the island. When we got home we decided to make a serious effort to eat British or Commonwealth sourced food.

    Tomatoes were a bit of a problem as all the supermarket ones seemed to be Spanish or Dutch but the big supermarkets like Sainsbury and Tesco do sell English ones and recently I have noticed they also now sell Moroccan tomatoes. I have also planted a few tomato plants in my back garden and we are currently enjoying the fruit.

    Yesterday it was a gloomy not very warm day here so we made Shepherds pie for dinner using New Zealand lamb and English potatoes. For dessert we had Cornish ice cream. We washed it down with an English elderflower presse. This morning we had a cup of Indian tea made with English milk before eating our Sunday morning breakfast.Today we fried English tomatoes ( fried in English rapeseed oil) on toast buttered with English butter and English poached eggs. (I assume the bread was probably made with North American flour, it may even have been Canadian) We had toast and home made strawberry jam , made with English strawberries and English sugar earlier this summer. This evening I plan to roast an English chicken and serve it with English potatoes and carrots.

    We will be making blackberry and apple crumble with blackberries from our neighbour’s garden and English apples. ( The Crumble topping we make from Canadian flour and English butter and sugar.) The OM will probably swamp his in English tinned custard to which he is very partial, while I will have some English cream on mine, or a speciality Scottish ice cream. We do not always eat English style food, last weekend we had an excellent joint of NZ lamb, served with ratatouille made with English vegetables and English mixed leaf salad. All washed down with a nice NZ wine. We have some continental cheeses in the fridge but also British ones.

    The point I am making is that contrary to a good deal of scaremongering, wde are not exactly on meagre rations by eating very largely British and Commonwealth food wherever possible. And our friend in Guernsey? Just as he was about to demolish his greenhouses, a big supermarket got in touch to ask him if he could grow peppers for them and the warehouses are full again.

    • MaryPaul

      A supplementary reason for our food choice was the horsemeat lasagne scare. I have no moral objection to horsemeat, but American horses are stuffed full of steroids and the cost in pollution and energy resources of transporting suspect horse meat from America to Holland to Romania to France to Belgium to the UK to sell at rock bottom prices in UK supermarkets concerns me on many levels.

    • Vivian O'Blivion

      Your choice and I wish you every success with it. Your preference for English food is highly commendable in terms of carbon footprint. Your preference for Commonwealth produce has a whiff of sentimentality perhaps? The Scots have a long history of interaction with our close and good neighbours across the North sea. Whether as a result of having been itinerant merchants of pots and pans, mercenary soldiers or some other trade, I would gauge that we have less of a vestigial notion of otherness and threat regards our neighbours.

  • jazza

    the british constitution is based on the following:

    “The state may do nothing but that which is expressly authorised by law, while the individual may do anything but that which is forbidden by law – Entick – v – Carrington 1765”
    ie – common law

    the british state takes no notice of this and does what it likes thereby ignoring the constituion and the people – the british state is a rogue state or a ‘regime’ – as it choses to call others – hypocrisy and lies are it’s basic tools

  • Republicofscotland

    More bad news for Corbyn, as the Labour party could begin to fracture.

    “Antisemitism training at this year’s Labour conference is at risk of being scrapped after J**ish members accused party leaders of trying to “censor” the sessions.”

    “The J**sh Labour Movement (JLM) has led courses at the last two conferences, but has withdrawn in 2018 claiming party officials demanded the removal of elements scheduled to be taught in Liverpool next month.”

    It looks more and more like the row, over possible anti-Semitism, and Wreathgate, within the Labour party is becoming a battle of wills.

    • MJ

      Don’t see it as bad news for Corbyn or his party if the neocons leave. Quite the opposite in fact.

      • Republicofscotland


        The possibility of alienating JLM, isn’t a good thing as you state. It could lead to more division.

        • MJ

          If you read carefully you’ll see that I didn’t say anything about alienating JLM (whatever that is). I referred only to neocon MPs leaving the Labour Party.

        • Paul Barbara

          @ Republicofscotland August 19, 2018 at 14:50
          It’s better to have snakes outside the compound than inside.

        • Republicofscotland

          That may well be the case, but having experienced the full force of the media during the 2014 Scottish independence referendum. I can assure you that having a strong base doesn’t necessarily equate to victory, especially when the media is against you.

          • Clark

            I sympathise, RoS; I was in Glasgow. It was so sad. I found myself feeling awful a year later; I didn’t realise why for a while.

            Don’t worry; independence is coming. And when it does, England will be a much better neighbour to have if it’s under Labour.

          • Dave

            The independence vote was lost because independence wasn’t on offer and even if it was Scots preferred being members of the British Union to the European Union, whereas Brexit was a genuine independence vote, even if its not delivered.

          • Republicofscotland


            There’s so much wrong in that paragraph that I don’t even know where to begin. So I’ll bow out, discretion, is in this case, the better part of valour. A wise man Falstaff.

          • Dave

            If you don’t control your own currency and borders, you’re not independent. The SNP’s support for the Euro and open borders means they are the enemy of Scottish nationalism, betraying its founders for office.

      • Republicofscotland


        Thank you for your opinion, however I didn’t say the party has split I said it could split. I still think Jeremy Corbyn, could take the heat out the current situation, with regards to Wreathgate, by issuing a quick apology.

        The anti-Corbyn media are having a field day at the moment, and the longer it continues the more damage it could do, to his chances of becoming PM.

          • Republicofscotland


            As I’ve said previously in here, its not what it is, but what it can twisted to look like.

            Many folk can’t be bothered with politics at the best of times, and only read the strapline, or listen to, or watch the news headline.

            We live in a time when, the truth can be drowned out by the media and the opposition.

          • Republicofscotland

            Interesting theory Kronstadt, however, I’m under the impression that winning folk back to vote Labour is the real aim of the Labour party and Corbyn.

            Would agree that since the accusations over Wreathgate and anti-semitism within the party faithful. That some folk might be thinking twiced about voting for Corbyn.

            And then there’s the media, who’ll run and run with this, wouldn’t a heartfelt apology (even though Corby probably doest have that much to apologise for) go a long way to winning back those who, have drifted away from the party, and partially negate media pressure.

        • Paul Barbara

          @ Republicofscotland August 19, 2018 at 14:58
          Sure, and Russia could take the heat off by ‘admitting’ poisoning Skripals etc., and bringing down MH17: no matter, they could then be sanctioned for giving false confessions, like Qaddafi (re Lockerbie) and Abu Zubaydah after 83 waterboardings.
          Heck, if Corbyn was waterboarded, he may finally admit being behind 7/7. That should keep him out of Parliament.
          Or even without waterboarding, he might be talked into ‘taking one for the team’.

        • Jo1

          Apologise for what???

          You’re unbelievable!

          You’re constantly here lately with links only about Corbyn when you’re also saying the Labour Party isn’t really making progress anyway in the polls and is dead in Scotland!

          The Labour Party has been essentially split since Corbyn was elected leader with a group inside of it working to bring him down by any possible means. They have a media on board that is frothing at the mouth. The anti-S stuff is just the latest, and filthiest, tactic yet. And you think Corbyn should apologise? He has attempted, many times, to address this issue and the accusers aren’t listening. They just want him gone.

          In truth, it seems to me you’re happy with what’s happening and that’s disgusting. We saw the way Salmond was and still is treated by the media. What Corbyn has had to endure has been off the scale. I could never take pleasure in anyone being treated like that even if he’s in a different Party from the one I vote for.

          • Republicofscotland

            “We saw the way Salmond was and still is treated by the media. What Corbyn has had to endure has been off the scale.”

            Good points Jo1, Salmond’s treatment is exactly why in my opinion Corbyn should apologise and put it to bed.

            As for what Corbyn has endured, I’m afraid to say it’s nothing compared to what’s coming if he survives to the next GE as leader.

            Salmond stood down as FM, and party leader, killing the media stone dead in the process. I’m not saying Corbyn should stand down.

            As for linking to articles to the Corbyn saga, I’ve already stated that I find it fascinating. As do many others I presume.

            As to your other point, Labour are a dead duck in Scotland. Mostly mocked and derided, but shored up like the Tories by the media, and a few well kent faces speak at closed shop events, who are not taken very seriously by the voters anymore.

          • Dave Price

            You need only remind yourself that the last thing RoS wants is a mildly socialist Labour party in power in Westminster (because that undermines his main argument for Scottish independence) to understand whether his advice is intended to help or hinder this eventuality.

        • Jo1

          “It’s not what it is, it’s what it can be twisted to look like. ”

          So, RoS, are you, applying similar logic, suggesting Salmond should apologise for working for Putin by having a show on RT?

          • Republicofscotland


            I’m giving an opinion Corbyn is attempting to become the next PM, Salmond isn’t.

    • Dungroanin

      ‘..begin to fracture’ you say. Begin???
      ‘More bad news’ you say. News???

      The Israeli lobby is threatening to walk?
      It’s implanted MP’s will resign?
      That a foreign government will stop interfering in a UK political party is bad news for you???

      Wtf RoS?
      I just have to ask you straight:- “What is your major malfunction…”

      • Republicofscotland

        “Wtf RoS?
        I just have to ask you straight:- “What is your major malfunction…”

        Glad to see you’ve gotten that semi-rant off your chest Dungroanin. Do you feel better now?

        As for my “major malfunction” as you put, I guess you could say it’s looking at the matter objectively.

        • Dungroanin

          Wrong. That was just a few questions. Which you ignored.

          Not objective RoS – unless you have convinced yourself that having an irrational hatred of all things JC is objective.

          Glad you accept you do have a major malfunction at least – what’s the name of your weapon? Numb Nut?


          • Republicofscotland

            “Not objective RoS – unless you have convinced yourself that having an irrational hatred of all things JC is objective.”

            On the contrary Dungroanin, I admire and respect Corbyn, for standing up for the likes of the Palestinian people, Gay Rights, the illegal war in Iraq etc.

            However he’s left the gate wide open to constant criticism over Wreathgate and anti-Semitism within the party, and that I’m afraid will be exploited all day long by the media, his detractors, and the opposition.

        • Jo1


          You’re having a laugh RoS!

          Why don’t you just be honest and admit you’re loving all this because you hate Labour? You don’t want Labour to recover because that would affect SNP votes in Scotland? It’s maybe an understandable position with so many tight marginals in the Scottish and UK most recent elections. And with alleged splits looming in the SNP over Indyref2 too. But, please, lose the “objectively” word because you’re fooling no one.

          • Republicofscotland


            You’re looking at Labour through rose tinted glasses, I’m not ergo I can be a bit more objective.

          • Jo1

            No RoS,
            I think you are anything but objective. You hate Labour. Me? I hate that the debate in Scotland, politically, has been killed by a biased media. I hate it that the debate has been killed by the visceral hatred between Labour and the SNP so that it’s now toxic.

            I don’t see any Party through rose-tinted glasses RoS. I’m perilously close to being 60 and got into politics late teens. I’ve never seen anything like what’s being done to Corbyn. And with the wholehearted approval of many within the PLP. It should shock us all. Because it really is shocking.

            If I do something to you that’s wrong there will come a point when I realise it. I may resist but my nature will not give me peace until I tell you I was wrong. Now, if you make up something about me and keep saying it and cause all sorts of trouble for me….I’ll be hurt, injured…whatever, but I won’t apologise when I did nothing wrong. So why should Corbyn?

            The press roasted Salmond over the RT show. Claimed he was in the pay of Russia, of Putin…blah blah. You say that’s not the same as Corbyn because Salmond’s out of the picture now. But, don’t you see? By going for Salmond they were trying to damage the SNP. You say Corbyn should apologise just to shut them up. That’s why I asked should Salmond have done the same?

            There are always political differences RoS. Nothing wrong with that. We know what we see in Scotland from the media here towards the SNP. It’s poisonous. And it’s wrong. The same stuff is going on about Corbyn in the UK media. That’s wrong too. We need to say so.

            We cannot attack the media for bias against the SNP in Scotland and refuse to call out the same behaviour when Corbyn is the target.

  • Ishmael

    This is what iI have about ideologs ^^^

    You can say stuff to them, and nothing goes in, they just march on with their crusade. No individual learning takes place, learning of things maybe, facts etc, but no human growth.

    Brains empty as Hal.

  • Sharp Ears

    Do you remember the boys playing football on the beach in Gaza in 2014?

    New Information Reveals How Israel Covered-Up the Killing of Four Boys in Gaza
    August 17, 2018
    Shir Hever discusses the Intercept report, revealing that the Israeli military used an armed drone to kill four children playing football and injure four others. The Israeli investigation of the killing is exposed as a sham

    The cruelty is unimaginable.

    ‘Operation Protective Edge’ ––Gaza_conflict
    btw Wikipedia. It is not a ‘conflict’. It is resistance by a mainly unarmed civilian population against a heavily armed Occupier.

    h/t TLN

  • frankywiggles

    “Jeremy Corbyn’s record over decades speaks for itself….They can try all the dirty tricks they like, but they are not going to topple Jeremy Corbyn”
    Chris Williamson MP


      • Paul Barbara

        @ frankywiggles August 19, 2018 at 13:54
        Williamson seems a great straight-talking MP.

    • Loony

      Jeremy Corbyn’s record over decades does indeed speak for itself.

      Of particular interest is Corbyn’s long standing loathing of the EU – a loathing that s fully supported by his voting record.

      How strange then that Corbyn is suddenly so silent.

      If I recall correctly Michael Foot and Enoch Powell were quite happy to share the same stage in order to warn the people as to the dangers of the then EEC. There does not seem much likelihood of Corbyn embracing Rees-Mogg in order to make the same argument today.

      Some may say that Corbyn is either a sell out or that, should he obtain power, many of his most ardent supporters are going to be apoplectic with rage when Corbyn kicks the EU right where it hurts most.

      • Clark

        It is silly to see this as either pro- or anti-EU. That the EU is the UK’s next-door neighbour is simply a fact, and no British Prime Minister dare “kick the EU right where it hurts most” because the EU is by far the more powerful party.

        What matters is that Corbyn will negotiate far more sensibly, and on behalf of of the UK population, whereas the Tories would negotiate on behalf of the UK elite and tax-dodgers, and UKOT off-shore interests.

        Think about that second option carefully. The population would become merely fodder; the EU would have to use ordinary people’s dissatisfaction as the only means of pressure upon the elite. Tories would make the worst middle-men in the world.

        • Tony_0pmoc


          The EU is a centralised, grossly inefficient, corrupt, and brutal unelected Dictatorship, set up and still controlled, by the CIA.

          The UK Government is also much the same, except we have our own Soverign currency, so that in theory we have the ability to control our own economy. In theory, we are also a Democracy, so we can (if we hadn’t all have been brainwsshed) vote the evil bastards out and replace them with a Government that represents the people.

          I didn’t think it was possible, to democratically vote The EU out, but that is what we have done. Personally I think Rees-Mogg and Corbyn would be a great team, to deliver what we have voted for.


          • Clark

            Tony, we can’t vote the EU out! That was just a publicity stunt. We can only “leave”, but that isn’t as simple as it sounds either.

            It’s all very well saying we’ll leave the EU, but it’s like saying you’re going to take the sugar out of your cup of tea.

        • Republicofscotland


          If you’re honest with yourself, you’d admit that Corbyn remained fairly silent on Brexit for almost two years after the disasterous vote.

          Tacitness and abstentions by the only real opposition in the HoC, has led us down this rocky path, to a no deal Brexit cliff edge.

          Now think tank after think tank, universities and other governing bodies including the Tories, have realised data showing the full extent of the damage that a no deal, and even a deal will do to the British economy. Specifically to those who have no way of mitigating Brexit. Which I’m sure you’ll agree is a substantial section of the population.

          Why oh why did Corbyn and Labour remain silent for so long? Corbyn is not a fan of the EU, and I suppose he hoped the Tories would give themselves enough rope to hang the government, but his sitting on the fence for nearly two years after the vote.Could remain fresh in the voters minds come the next GE.

          • Clark

            “why did Corbyn and Labour remain silent for so long? “

            Well the PLP was too busy trying to sabotage Corbyn and the members, and consequently the new leadership were busy putting out fires on their own decks.

            There’s also the matter of accepting the decision of the electorate. Remember that in the almost 50/50 result, Scotland’s Remain majority is balanced by England’s Leave majority.

          • Republicofscotland

            Thank you Clark for that explanation, it explains to me quite clearly that the Labour put party policy before the welfare of the people.

            Of course other parties do the same, however only Labour could’ve strenuously challenged the government over Brexit. I’m sorry to say, that, they failed miserably.

          • Clark

            The Labour PLP put their objectives ahead of those of the party, members and the electorate – the same group as you were opposing over independence, and that the vast numbers of new members are currently engaged in winning back control from.

            You can’t just write “Labour” because the Labour party is currently being transformed.

          • Clark

            PLP = Parliamentary Labour Party – the current MPs, most of whom voted (or abstained) for war, benefit cuts, etc.

            CLP = Constituency Labour Party – the constituency groups where the members get to vote. Some of my constituency meeting have been electric, as the members, including the new influx, wrest back control from what was New Labour.

          • Jo1

            Many, if not most, Labour MPs are unwilling to challenge on Brexit because their constituencies voted Leave.

          • Ishmael


            JC is no god. EU bashing has been a popular thing across the spectrum, ideologically, for decades. He also backs the police. With little evidence they actually help much.

            Maybe some amount of reality set in when it acutely came to the crunch. Id suggest at the time it was a big learning curve..

            Unfortunately politicians don’t have any real skin in the game. So they are free to spout nonsense of which they know little about if it sounds good.

          • Republicofscotland


            Even though they know fine well how damaging to the British economy Brexit is and will be in the future. Self interest by remaing tacit on the matter in their constituencies, could backfire.

            I can see the LibDems making inroads at the next GE.

          • Jo1

            Well RoS, those Labour MPs were being warned they’d be out the door if they didn’t support their constituency vote and the overall result.
            As for the LibDems, I had wondered about a revival too but, with the current leadership, I can’t see it.

      • frankywiggles

        Not sure what you’re talkng about. How could he hurt the EU in any significant way, even if he wanted to?

        • MJ

          1) By refusing to play ball over the Irish border issue and creating the much-feared backdoor into the single market
          2) By imposing huge tariffs on EU-produced vehicles and wine (there are plenty of non-EU producers to buy from)
          3) By imposing huge tariffs on the sale of UK financial services to EU countries eg insurance underwriting and also on the sale of fish (bye bye Spanish factory ships slurping up fish from UK waters for nothing)

          That’s just for starters but enough to concentrate minds in Brussels.

          • Clark

            1) The EU can impose borders from their side too,
            2) Hurts the UK much more than the EU,
            3) The EU wants that tax-puncture closed anyway.

            I suppose that leaves fish. Are there any left?

          • Nick

            A successful brexit, if that was/were possible, could possibly destroy the Project entirely.

          • Republicofscotland


            You’ve surpassed yourself there, on how to damage the British economy even more once we leave the EU.

          • frankywiggles

            Fine MJ, but even if those steps did significantly hurt the EU, Corbyn has never suggested he intends taking any of them.

          • Nick

            Hi again Clark 🙂

            I guess in short that there is a large current of eurosceptism in Europe, which would be emboldened if the UK survived and thrived outside the EU. If the UK can leave, and do OK, why not Italy? (as an obvious example)

            I fully admit it’s not likely. But it’s possible

          • MJ

            The best thing about leaving EU without a deal is that we’ll see what the real issues are that need addressing rather than having to rely on the fear-mongering of disgruntled remainers.

          • MJ

            Italy is a good example and another is the Czech Republic (even more eurosceptic than the UK). The best example however is Ireland, whose economy is reliant on selling food to the UK. I think Ireland will be the next to go, provided it can extricate itself from the euro.

          • Nick

            Sweden, Austria, France even Germany. There’s a big backlash against unfettered immigration and enforced multiculturalism.

            So, I’m pretty certain the EU won’t give us a good deal on leaving.

          • Clark

            Nick, true, but I have heard (but not verified) that the ongoing Brexit débâcle has dampened Euroscepticism in other EU countries.

          • Nick

            Clark, yes that makes perfect sense too (although like you I can’t verify). Good Brexit = more euroscepticism; Bad Brexit = less euroscepticism (although perhaps it would be more a case of better the devil you know)

            So roughly just different sides of the same coin. And I agree again – it’s a debacle.

            Now the extent to which this is intentional is an interesting question…

      • Charles Bostock


        Corbyn is just another politician but one who has successfully donned the mantle of the (only) “man of principle”

        Of course. it’s easy to be a man of principle when you’ve never been in the position of exercising power and actually having to make decisions in a heavily interdependent and interlinked world.

        Corbyn has never been in government at any level. Equally significantly, no one can link him with any successful action of a political, economic or social nature originating in the backbenches. He is no David Steele, no Jeff Rooker/Audrey Wise, no Tam Dalyell. His 30 year presence in the HoC has nothing whatever to show for it.

        Corbyn-mania was mostly about lost people desperately scratching around for someone to idolize. A bit like many internauts scratching around for someone to tell them what to think politically.

        But his day has come and gone, I’m happy to say.

        • Clark

          Don’t panic Charles, Corbyn is just one man. The systems and institutions will continue to function just as they are – how could the current shower of incompetents be keeping the show nominally on the road otherwise? – while Corbyn’s principled pressure gently brings the ship of state to a new heading, away from its current crash course.

          Have you considered just how much your side must have done wrong for 40% of the electorate to feel, as you put it, “lost”?

        • George

          I’m sure that if Corbyn came to power he’d find out what “a heavily interdependent and interlinked world” really means. As Bill Clinton put it, everything the ostensible leader does would have to be ratified by “a bunch of fucking bond traders”. So perhaps the days of looking for an electoral hero within the present system really are over.

          • frankywiggles

            Hehe, that made it sound like his policies were always being thwarted by Wall Street, rather than being designed by and for Big Money. Another quote of Clinton’s when he was president was: “We’re Eisenhower Republicans .. we stand for lower deficits and free trade and the bond market”. He was not somebody who attempted to divert power away from the richest in any way.

            In fact, following Nafta, top executives from the Ford Motor Company, the steel industry, etc., were quoted in the Wall Street Journal as saying his administration was better for corporate America than Ronald Reagan’s.

            Silly to suggest that what he attempted on behalf of ordinary people were the limits of the possible.

          • kronstadt

            Everything changes all the time – and better to travel hopefully as in reality we never arrive. A better world (small British world) is possible and JC is the only one available so embrace it.

        • Republicofscotland


          A fantastic word Charles, I shall remember to use it from time to time.

        • Republicofscotland

          “Of course. it’s easy to be a man of principle when you’ve never been in the position of exercising power and actually having to make decisions in a heavily interdependent and interlinked world.”


          I think I have to agree with that paragraph, prinicples can and must surely from time to time, be impinged upon, during a PM’s tenure, by making difficult and sometimes unpleasant decisions, which will always affect some section of society, in a detrimental way, foreign or domestic.

          • FranzB

            RoS – ‘“Of course. it’s easy to be a man of principle when you’ve never been in the position of exercising power and actually having to make decisions in a heavily interdependent and interlinked world.”’

            Is that what Alex Salmond when trying to become First Minister in 2007? I don’t think so.

        • N_

          @Charles – “But his day has come and gone, I’m happy to say.
          Why are you bayoneting the dead then?

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