Gdansk 1781

Writing about your personal demons for the public is seldom a good idea, and it is a particularly bad idea when you are starting at 3.40am as they are haunting you. We are spending Hogmanay in the beautiful city of Gdansk. It is my first time here for over twenty years, but the city has remarkable memories for me.

In November 1994 I was newly arrived as First Secretary at the British Embassy in Warsaw when a fatal fire occurred at the famous shipyard, in a hall being used for a rock concert tied in to a MTV transmission. The fire doors were all padlocked shut, and the heat had reached such intensity that a flash fire had occurred right across the hall. Miraculously only five people had died immediately, but hundreds had been horrifically burnt or suffered fume inhalation and the hospitals were completely overwhelmed.

Within hours of the fire I was dispatched to Gdansk by our dynamic Ambassador and found myself on a train heading North with only a Motorola mobile phone the size of a large brick (1994) and a phone number for DFID, in those days a part of the FCO and known as ODA. I roused from his London bed the official in charge of emergency assistance, Mukesh Kapila, and he instructed me to get a list from the medical authorities of all the supplies required. He explained that major burns required large volumes of consumables by way of ointments and special gauzes and bandages.

Arriving in Gdansk I very soon discovered that the victims were dispersed round several hospitals and there was no central authority able to produce a list of requirements. Poland was still in the early stages of a shock transition from communism and elements of administration were shaky at the best of times, let alone in a large scale emergency. The only way to make any progress was for me physically to go to every hospital and every concerned ward, buttonhole the doctors there and ask them what they needed.

To say they were swamped would be ridiculous understatement. Victims were everywhere, very many critical, and in some places bleary-eyed doctors literally had nothing – creams, bandages, painkillers, saline drips all exhausted. Meeting many doctors, when I told them I could get anything sent out instantly, the reaction ranged from angrily incredulous to massive bear hugs.

It was of course difficult. In 1994 Polish medical practice differed quite sharply from British. There were language barriers; my as yet basic Polish lacked medical vocabulary. And I had to keep interrupting incredibly busy people. But after the first couple of hospitals I was able to extrapolate and phone through to Mukesh the most obviously urgent items, and by the end of the day I was clutching 16 handwritten lists and could sit down to consolidate them.

But I have not described to you what it was like to go round those wards. I really cannot – it was indescribable. Horribly disfigured people screaming and writhing in pain, begging and pleading for any relief, even asking to die. And the worst thing is, they were all teenagers – the average age seemed about 16. One image I shall never forget was of a girl sitting bolt upright in bed, looking calm, and I recall thinking that at least this one is OK. But I had seen her right profile and as I passed her, the left side of her face was literally skeletal, with a yellow blob for an eye, no skin and just the odd sinew attached to the bone. Her calm was catatonic.

But in a way still worse were two girls who looked perfectly healthy, lying on top of their beds apparently in an untroubled sleep. The doctor told me that they were already brain dead, having inhaled cyanide gas from the combustion of plastic seating. The mother of one of them was there and she pleaded with me to tell the doctor not to turn off the ventilator; the poor woman was crazed with grief and pulling at her hair, which was dyed red. I can still recall every detail of the faces of both mother and her still daughter.

I called in every day for a week or so and sat with the mother a few minutes, in silence. Then one day they were gone; the doctors had switched off the ventilator.

Andrze Kanthak, our Honorary Consul, was a fantastic support and worked extremely hard throughout this period – but as we walked together into the first ward, Andrze simply fainted straight out at the sight of it all. That evening we had hardly finished consolidating my 16 lists and sending them off to Mukesh when news arrived that the first shipment of most urgent supplies was arriving at Gdansk airport, and we dashed off there with a lorry from the City Council.

It was a bitter disappointment. Customs refused to release the medicines until duty had been paid and, still worse, everything would need to be checked and certified by the food and drug administration, which could take weeks. All my fury at the self-satisfied officials was of no avail, and we returned temporarily baffled.

A phone call now came that DFID had chartered a flight to arrive the next day with 20 tons of medical supplies, so the situation was now critical. Walesa was now President and I suggested we contact his office, but Andrze advised we should rather recruit Father Jankowski.

Jankowski was the parish priest in Gdansk who had been integral to the Solidarnosc movement, and at that time he wielded enormous political influence. His home was extraordinary for a parish priest – literally palatial – and when I met him there the next day he readily agreed to help. He came to the airport with us as the chartered cargo flight arrived, and supervised the loading into the council lorries which I dispatched to the various hospitals. A tall imposing figure in a flowing black cassock, the customs officials who had blocked us obeyed him without question.

Things calmed down over the next few days, Mukesh Kapila himself came out, and the hospitals once supplied performed brilliantly. Astonishingly, from hundreds of cases of severe and extensive burns, with scores in intensive care, we lost nobody except the two girls who were already brain dead, bringing the final death toll to seven. The incredible survival rate was viewed as a miracle, and perhaps it was, but it was a miracle assisted by some fantastic doctors, by Mukesh Kapila and his staff, by Father Jankowski, by Andrze Kanthak and by the Secretary of Gdansk Council whose name (Janowski?) has slipped my mind, embarrassingly as the experience made us firm friends for a long while.

But I am afraid to say the personal impact on me was quite severe. It is no secret that I struggle against bipolar disorder, and the sheer horror of those days in the wards undoubtedly triggered me for quite a while. I also suffered recurrent nightmares for more than a decade, about the horrific burns but also about the brain dead child and the mother tearing her hair. Worse than the nightmares were the waking flashbacks, not so much visual as emotional, experiencing the feeling of it happening again.

When I got back to the Embassy nobody was very interested in what I had been doing. I was ticked off for returning a day late and also for not obtaining much media publicity for the UK’s role. I have written before that one of my frequent duties in Poland was to conduct high profile visitors around the concentration camps, a visit all British politicians wish to make. Those places filled me with horror, which resonated on the same emotional frequency as the Gdansk trauma. Those frequent visits made my time in Poland difficult to me, which is a shame as it is a delightful country and people.

Back here now as a tourist, with my family and at a festive time, no troubling memories are assailing me. I find I can now be proud of what we did, rather than ashamed at my emotional reaction afterwards. And I can’t quite tell you why, but I felt it should be recorded.

Finally, it is worth noting that this Gdansk experience was one of a number which led me immediately to understand that the famous BBC report on “Saving Syria’s Children” was faked. The alleged footage of burns victims in hospital following a napalm attack bears no resemblance whatsoever to how victims, doctors and relatives actually behave in these circumstances.


Subscriptions to keep this blog going are gratefully received.

Choose subscription amount from dropdown box:

Recurring Donations


Leave a comment

Your email address will not be published. Required fields are marked *

This site uses Akismet to reduce spam. Learn how your comment data is processed.

1,781 thoughts on “Gdansk

1 7 8 9 10
  • Mustapha Feel

    the rabid, criminal cabal that runs britain has been very busy today trying to gather support from the plebs for their heinious crimes – hope you’re all happy

    • nevermind

      Thanks Brian, at last an excellent initiative to highlight Julian Assange diminished opportunities to communicate with friends,family and those he shares common interests with.

      Great news and much respect to M.Maguire. Lets hope many write to the Nobel committee in support of Julians past journalistic, and public spirited work.

      European countries, apparently signed up to the UNHCR act should fall over themselves to offer him citizenship and safe refuge.

      • BrianFujisan

        Indeed Nevermind

        makes a welcome interlude to the Nobel Commitee’s past litany of honored Evil..
        war criminals, including ruthless Israeli officials, Henry Kissinger, Obama, and other US warrior presidents, Jimmy Carter.

        In recent, Mind Blowing CONTROL, Blair was nominated..And the White Helmet Terrorists.

        I too Hope Many write and show support For Julian.

        • Republicofscotland

          Ironically it is said that Alfred Nobel set up the Nobel foundation after reading about his false demise in the French press. Who wrote scathingly about him, saying the merchant of death is now dead, and Nobel got rich on ways of killing people quicker.

          It wasn’t Alfred Nobel who’d died but his brother Ludwig.

      • Trowbridge H. Ford

        Seems a bit early to advertise so since nominations can be submitted until September/ By then others could be more eligible for stopping general wars in the ME, Moscow, the South China Sea, the US-Mexican border etc., ad nauseam.

    • Ort

      I second your “well done Mairead Maguire”.

      I have an unapologetic, iconoclastic contempt for the self-inflating, self-serving Nobel Committee(s). Only authoritarian-submissive personalities and/or cognitive dissonance can explain their continuing vaunted prestige, expecially given their abominable record of nominating bloody-handed war criminals for their “Peace Prize”.

      All that said, if they awarded Assange the Peace Prize it would almost make up for their appalling rush to anoint the charlatan Obama just to drive away the bad smell of the Bush II regime.

  • able

    Another 550 sub-Saharan* migrants picked up off the Spanish coast over the weekend. Salvini must be grinning from ear to ear since migration to Italy almost dried up thanks to his simple measures. Every one of these migrants will soon be heading to Paris and from there to the UK in order to max out on benefits.

    *How will the regulars here manage to make this “our fault”. Will it be “the evils of colonialism” this time?

    • Dungroanin

      Not that I disbelieve, you understand, but have yo got any citations for the various ‘facts’ you just spewed there? Are you able to do that?

        • Dungroanin

          As I wrote, i’m not disputing, just asking your source for the claims that you make. I’ll list them with a question mark, to make it easier. Just reply with a link to each fact.

          sub-Saharan* ?
          migration to Italy almost dried up?Every one of these migrants will soon be heading to Paris?
          from there to the UK?
          in order to max out on benefits?

          • Dungroanin

            Oh a bit of a ‘Napoleon’ in exile personality?

            Sad. So so sad. I think there are treatments available for mad hattery nowdays – though it’s best to avoid the quick silver in ones diet and furnishings.

    • Clark

      “Max out on benefits”? It’s a pittance! I can’t even understand why you bother to complain; such money goes straight back into the economy, most of it to huge concerns like supermarkets and energy companies. By far the biggest chunk of benefits goes to landlords.

      One of the biggest reasons people don’t get jobs is because of the insecurity should it not work out. It should be made much, much easier to transition between work and benefit. Yet again, Corbyn has it right with a basic Citizens’ Income, an integrated, seamless sliding scale between benefit and taxation.

        • pete

          So, let me see, the full quote concerning the item is:

          “Its craft intercepted six small smuggling boats carrying 350 migrants on Saturday in waters east of the Strait of Gibraltar.
          Another 199 migrants were pulled from five different boats on Sunday, including two small inflatable boats.
          Four children were being carried on one of the tiny recreational boats while the other was packed with 10 adults.
          Estimates by the United Nations refugee agency say 2,262 migrants died while crossing the Mediterranean in 2018 and the EU’s border agency said 57,000 migrants reached Spain last year – double the figure for 2017.”

          The Spanish newspaper El Pais says:
          Spain deported 54,963 immigrants between 2013 and 2017, representing an average of 30 people a day, according to an Interior Ministry reply to a query by Senator Maribel Mora, of the leftist Unidos Podemos group.

          It kind of looks like Spain is deporting people almost as fast as they arrive, presumably not genuine refugees. Still quite an effective proportion of the total. So I don’t understand what the point of your original post about immigrants was.

      • Loony

        I take it that you do like immigrants – well I have some great news for you.

        In 1985 the population of Africa was 485 million, and today it is 1.2 billion. Baked into the cake are further population rises that will take the total to 2.5 billion within the next 30 years. Absent massive war, famine or pestilence the population should continue to rise to around 4 billion by the turn of the century.

        So, exactly how many of these people would you like to see move to Europe? If you come up with any answer other than all of them, then what is your selection criteria? Maybe just skim off the most skilled people thus ensuring that those that remain stay mired in poverty. How about making them dance for your entertainment – not literally, but maybe have a few million risk drowning in order to reach the promised land.

        Or how about Africa maintaining a stable population with Europe taking 1.3 billion people in the next 30 years followed by another 1.5 billion in the next 50 years. How is that going to work out do you think?

        But wait there is more – so much more. Bangladesh is not exactly a wealthy country. In 1971 Bangladesh had a population of about 66 million. Today it has a population of some 166 million. Surely it would not be too much to ask to squeeze in a paltry 100 million extra people. Maybe they could all live in Cornwall, after all there are currently only about half a million people in Cornwall – less than 0.5% of the exportable population from Bangladesh.

        Do you not see a problem here? Do you not see that this is a problem of such scale that it cannot be resolved or even dented by vacuous virtue signalling.

        • Node

          My white British mother gave birth to 4 children, 3 of whom had 2 children of their own and the 4th had 1. Of those 7 grandchildren, all now have their own children (2,2,2,2,1,3,1). My mother and all her 24 descendants are alive and well and as ‘rich’ Westerners, using proportionately much more of the Earth’s resources than the Africans and Asians you prefer to blame for runaway population growth.

          • Paul Greenwood

            If however you move an African or an Asian to Europe he immediately uses more energy and resources than if he remains in Africa or Asia. The CO2 emissions in Australia exceed those of Germany but are way behind Qatar. It its however a major problem if you look at CAPITAL rather than INCOME.

            To import someone who is not self-supporting and with high value-added is to divert resources to providing HOUSING – a Capital Cost plus energy and transport and health costs. If you se the cost of an Unaccompanied Minor entering the UK for Social Services is £5000/month.

            That is a lot of tax revenue and requires how many individual taxpayers to fund each foreign child ?

          • Loony

            Aint it hard when you discover that the exponential function could not give a shit about morals, feelings, values or offense. It just keeps on doing what it does.

            Why not try and answer the actual question. Do you think that Europe should welcome in excess of 2 billion migrants over the next 30 years or so? Is it feasible to import say 100 million people into Cornwall. Do you have any solutions at all – or are you solely interested in your own narcissistic self serving virtue signalling?

            By the way your interesting potted family history more or less sums to a birth rate that is equivalent to replacement rate. By contrast the birth rate is Niger is an average of 7 children per woman – which makes your family appear almost sterile.

          • Geoffrey

            Perhaps you should all consider moving to Africa ? Then we could facilitate a few hundred Africans in your stead.

          • Node

            By the way your interesting potted family history more or less sums to a birth rate that is equivalent to replacement rate. By contrast the birth rate is Niger is an average of 7 children per woman – which makes your family appear almost sterile.

            Loony – do the math! A birth rate equivalent to replacement rate would require my mother to have no more than 2 living descendents – one to replace my deceased father and one to replace herself when the time comes. She exceeds replacement rate by 12 times – more than an order of magnitude! Families in the West may be smaller, but they live longer.

          • Capt Bluntschli

            LFOL! Loony I love you. I haven’t been reading here regularly and in the last couple of days, I was seriously concerned that you had perhaps been banned for talking sense or just bored with the level of response you receive here. E.g. where did our immigrant-hugger Sharpie disappear too double-quick 9after your onslaught)?

            I appreciate your posts from (a) The Big Picture, all the way to (z) your riposte to Node viz. “By contrast the birth rate is Niger is an average of 7 children per woman – which makes your family appear almost sterile.”

            Keep it up is all I can say!

          • Bayard

            “A birth rate equivalent to replacement rate would require my mother to have no more than 2 living descendents – one to replace my deceased father and one to replace herself when the time comes. She exceeds replacement rate by 12 times – more than an order of magnitude! Families in the West may be smaller, but they live longer.”

            That’s a hell of a lot of virgin births in your family, Node. Either that or you need to count the father/mothers of all her grandchildren and great grandchildren. So your parents had four children, all of which got together with someone to produce seven grandchildren, so that’s six people producing seven (your two parents and four outsiders). These seven grandchildren imported seven outsiders to produce twenty four offspring, i.e. thirteen people producing twenty-four.

          • Node

            Thank you, Bayard, you’re right.
            Apologies, Loony.
            And to Capt. Villager, you have my pity.

        • Dungroanin

          Ah has the moon landing by the chinese – heading to 2 billion – sent you scurrying?

          Bet you worried everyone wants to leave their ancestral homes to come and freeze their bollocks to death on the pavements of gold and free food banks on a wet and windy island off the coast of Europe?

          Maybe if we had kept ourselves safe behind our moat for the last 500 years – no one would have heard of this septic isle you are so so worried about. How about recalling all these emigrants that we sent out? I’m sure the aussies won’t mind a bit of reverse transportation – give em a tenner each, that’ll encourage them.

        • Forsaken Prophet

          War, famine, pestilence. You forgot plague.

          Malthus was right, and Loony too. I suspect the population of Africa in 2100 will be a fraction of 4 billion. The ecosphere is collapsing, we have created a hell for our children in our pursuit of sun tans, iphones and beefburgers.

        • SA

          You typically take a problem and extrapolate exponentially without looking at variables and without analyzing causes, effects and possible alternative solutions. Why Africa and what is now called the 4th World is in the state it is in is because of the one sided western-centric application of globalization. Having been the first to exploit the industrial revolution and having been able to take advantage of taking over large continents and exporting Europeans to repopulate them and displace the original inhabitants as happened in North America and Australia. At the least the developed world should do its best to develop the 4th world to ameliorate the problems you describe, rather than to punitively visit them with debt enforced by the World Bank and the IMF with its increasing transfer of any resources from those countries to the west and whilst encouraging increasing encouragement of a corrupt elite.

        • Glasshopper

          When i went to Nigeria the population was 80 million. It is almost double that now and is heading upwards all the time. That’s just Nigeria, a country split between Christians and Muslims heading for a major conflict in the not so distant future.

          We are currently seeing a trickle, but the tsunami is on its way.

          And it is not enough to talk about numbers and costs. It is time to call out the morons in Europe supporting migrants for what they really are: Supporters of People traffickers and warlords preying on vulnerable people.

          Finally, the cretins need to be reminded that they are undermining the legitimate refugees and immigrants in the system.

          The way these pompous sanctimonious jerks claim to be “caring, tolerant” people makes my blood boil.

    • Ken Kenn

      Well there will be no trucks and not many ferries moving so can you advise?

      By the way we’re 17 million Turks missing and about £350 million quid out of pocket.

      Please advise or better still ask Nigel ( the adopted German ) what happened?

      If you’re not careful I’ll never vote Labour again – like you probably say on other comment boards.

      In different names of course.

  • able

    Annual reminder on the fourth anniversary of the Charlie Hebdo attacks not to make jokes about Islam How much progress have we made with the “Je Suis Charlie” bollocks trotted out by our leaders in the aftermath at that stomach churning rally in Paris? F*ck all, of course. We’ve actually gone backwards.

    • nevermind

      This year, on the 22nd of Juli we will be commemorating the 77 people killed by a right wing nutjob in Utoya Norway, many of them in their early teenage years and full of life, campaigning spirit for Palestinian human rights issues.

      It is now 8 years since and these young spirited minds would be in their early 20’s, happy young couples lovers successful and artistic.
      This nutjob had done this prepared, his modes of references and mentions were taken
      from US teaparty loonies and journalists such as Melanie Phillips, a frequent Bibice favourite.

      Never again!

      • able

        “Never again!”

        Well, quite. It hasn’t happened again. Can the same be said for the routine jihadist attacks on Europe and Europeans?

        • Paul Barbara

          @ able January 7, 2019 at 22:38
          Have you ever heard of False Flags, hoaxes and Patsies? Set-ups and ‘sting’ operations?
          Have you not read about ‘Operation Gladio’?

      • able

        By your own logic of terrorists never being responsible for their actions, you should seek to understand Breivik’s motivations and engage in some victim blaming in language that goes perilously close to justifying what he did. But I disagree. Breivik should have received the death penalty for his heinous crime rather than being allowed to spout his ever more deranged ideas from the confort of his prison cell. Will you do the same and condemn Islamic jihadists? Or will you forever blame the West and attempt to divert?

        • Ken Kenn

          Last time I looked it was illegal to blow someone up or shoot them.

          This was in the heady days of the seventies prior to this outbreak of ” Terrorism.”

          The IRA and others were jailed as others were and are now.

          Explain what this current terrorism deserves a special category. Islamic or otherwise.

          The Yanks do internal terrorism all the time and rightly they get locked up.

          What’s changed and why do you want the death penalty to be prosecuted in countries where they don’t
          have a death penalty?

          Are ” Terrorists!” special killers but the military is not – say in the Middle East?

          • able

            The IRA at least had discernible aims. The trouble with Islamic jihadists is that they hate us for no other reason than that we are not Muslim. It cannot be resolved by giving them a piece of land or holding peace talks. They hate our values and who we are. In that sense they are indeed a very special case and one that cannot be defeated in any conventional manner. At this point we can only hope to limit the effects by ceasing to import the problem and containing that which we already have.

            Can I ask you a question now? What is it with the radical left’s love affair with Islam? I mean, I know you guys treat any enemy of the West as your friend, but don’t you realise how opposed Islamic values are to you own? Or that you would be first against the wall in any Islamic state? Why do you seek to excuse atrocities committed in the name of Islam, to deny, ofuscate, divert and engage in victim blaming?

          • Clark


            “Will you do the same and condemn Islamic jihadists?”

            I find it difficult to condemn these people. Nearly all of them are barely adult (usually well under thirty), indoctrinated in a way that inhibits their development towards maturity, and very often brutalised. Often they are useful to Western allies in the Gulf, eg. Daesh receiving funding to destabilise Syria. If they don’t blow themselves up in some pointless action in the West, when they become inconvenient they are obliterated en masse from the air. Of everyone involved, they lose the most.

            I unreservedly condemn the powers and religious authorities who maintain this situation for pursuit of their own ambitions.

            “they hate us for no other reason than that we are not Muslim”

            No. Their hatred is indoctrinated too, and instilled by brutalisation.

          • giyane

            ” Or that you would be first against the wall in any Islamic state? ”
            Are we talking about an Islamic state like Iran or Saudi where full black covering by day gives way to naked dancing by night or abroad?
            Or are talking about an Islamic state like Turkey or Kurdistan where Islam is a voluntary alternative to organised state crime?
            Or are we talking about an Islamic state like Nigeria where Boko Haram are straight funded by the CIA ?
            Or are talking about the BBC world service Islamic state where the torture rendition brainwashed husband likes a nice cuppa tea after a hard day’s filming horror movies for the alternative nihilists residing in France?

            When you try to talk Islam , you are the one who needs to up your game.

          • Capt Bluntschli

            Clark are you making a case to set up rehab madrassa’s in Europe and around the world? As Chief Medical Officer you condone and justify all these radical cuckoos?

          • Clark

            Capt, let’s start building the infrastructure to synthesize our own liquid fuel, because we’ll be needing that soon enough anyway, and dimethyl ether burns a lot more cleanly. Then we can start cutting off the drug oil money that funds the whole obscene exercise.

            What does it matter whether I condemn or condone? They’re a renewable resource; that much has been proven.

          • giyane

            hope I’m snuggling somewhere close to Rear Sea Admiral Twat MBE ‘s comment.

            Put it like this. If you had time after devising a rehabilitation programme for discarded, dysfunctional retired retarded neo-cons, when PM The Rt Hon.Jeremy Corbyn makes funds available , you could turn your attention to rehabilitating the victims of the discarded, dysfunctional retired retarded neo-cons, that would be perfect.

          • MaryPau!

            I am not sure you can claim the 9/11 or even the 7/7 bombers were reacting to being brutalised.

          • Clark

            MaryPau!, I don’t know their personal circumstances. But to examine each offender in isolation is to miss the point. According to official sources, fifteen of the nineteen 9/11 attackers were from Saudi Arabia, and Saudi Arabia certainly brutalises, teaching that life is cheap with its public floggings, amputations and executions. If someone wasn’t personally brutalised, they will have experienced the brutalisation of others. “Our side” brutalises more impersonally; at the time of 7/7, anyone with friends or relatives in Iraq had suffered from institutional brutalisation.

            There are billions of Muslims in the world, hugely divergent, the vast majority are just ordinary people getting on with their lives. Able tells me that they’re all so opposed to me and my values that walling each other off is the only solution, but my personal experience is the opposite; I’ve got on fine with most of the Muslims I’ve encountered, and my few negative experiences were ordinary human tensions like the ones I’ve experienced with anyone else.

          • Glasshopper


            Saudis are hardly a brutalised underclass. They have millions of west Asian flunkeys for that.

            And many terrorists have been highly educated, comfortably off, and have never been to a Muslim country.

          • Clark

            After what recently happened to Jamal Khashoggi, how can you say that any Saudi Arabian is not brutalised? OK, they may be physically comfortable for the time being, but a foot out of line, or a change in the power structure, and they are likely to be hacked to bits. Their whole life is spent under the threat of life being cheap.

            Education is irrelevant for those dominated by this Saudi-centred ideology. Location provides a statistical protection, but that’s of no relevance to those affected; it merely reduces the number of them in a given area.

          • Ken Kenn

            Well Able it looks like I’ll have to reply to myself.

            Twa’ sever thus.

            There is a reason why impoverished countries have high reproductive rates and it is due to the instinct of self preservation.

            Unlike us ( at the moment and I use the phrase ” at the moment ” carefully ) they do not have the benefit of a Welfare state and no access to a Private pension.

            Therefore when Granny or Grandad reaches around fifty and becomes incapacitated due to lack of healthcare and can no longer work ( be exploited ) someone or some people have to fill the gap in terms of income for the family.

            These are the family/tribal members who work and look after the other members of the tribe/family.

            No sentimentality it’s a material fact – this is why they do it.

            It is due to ” Under Development ” – which is code for – we rob you Imperialistically and you suffer the consequences.

            This is what pays for your pension ( at the moment ).

            Here’s the bad news: the BRICs ( the old exploited nations ) are coming on a ton.

            The good news is that they have no intention of making you skint in fact they want you to join in their success.

            Problem: Donald – Theresa and even Emmanuel have got so used to being top dogs that they are not going top let go without a fight.

            Old empires die hard and if needs be they will ( like Samson ) pull down the Temple around them in an attempt to cling on to the powers that they once had.

            Like all former empires they will fail and reality ( history ) will kick in.

            The irony is that in the future refugees – economic migrants will not be heading to the old empires they will be heading to the new.

            80 million Turks will cast their eyes not to Margate but to Bejjng or Mumbai and many of the educated masses from the old West will do the same and I say good luck to them.

            This is history in action – not delusion.

            This is the reality not your delusion.

            Cling to your flag if you want – it will give you diddly squat.

        • Paul Barbara

          @ able January 7, 2019 at 22:57
          Breivik did what he did in collusion with the State, and State forces were also in on the killing spree.
          You didn’t know that?

        • Republicofscotland


          You forget, how complicit your beloved Britain’s roll is in Syria, Iraq,Yemen, Afghanistan, Libya, the Chagos Islands and quite few other countries as well.

          Tell, how many have died due to British aiding and abetting in these countries?

          Of course the mentality of some in the British estsblishment such as Boris Johnson, who said Libya would be a great tourist hotspot again once they cleared the bodies off the streets is well known.

    • wonky

      Je suis Fredou.
      Helric Fredou. You are not forgotten!
      He took a bullet for his efforts. For the biggest day in his carreer. For catching those “brothers”.
      Only to be shamed after death and erased from the official “narrative”.
      (“Narrative”.. another one for the expanding Newspeak dictionary..)
      Dig and you shall find.
      Who’s this Charlie anyway?

  • Dungroanin

    Carole’s broken cover under darkness.
    Writing in the Drama section at the Groan, basically giving oxygen to the Cummings/DS cover up. No, no mention of II/IoS.

    No comments turned on. Guess she will be safe back undercover before daylight.

  • Sharp Ears

    Remembering the horror and the terror. We marched to the Israeli Embassy, we protested, we gathered together, we listened to stirring speeches (including from Craig). Did we achieve anything? The Palestinians are still being killed and wounded.

    ‘Ten years after the first war on Gaza, Israel still plans endless brute force
    Avi Shlaim
    Operation Cast Lead killed 1,417 people. Chillingly, the generals call their repeated bombardments ‘mowing the lawn’
    Mon 7 Jan 2019

    This month marks the 10th anniversary of the first major military assault on the 2 million Palestinians of the Gaza Strip. After its unilateral withdrawal from Gaza in 2005, Israel turned the area into the biggest open-door prison on Earth. The two hallmarks of Israel’s treatment of Gaza since then have been mendacity and the utmost brutality towards civilians.’


    • Capt Bluntschli

      Thank you. I’ve been telling you for a long while: no amount of parading and protesting is going to light your own little lamp.

      • giyane

        Captain Twat

        Some deeply troubling childhood experience with females has scarred you for life. I know what , I’ll pretend I’m a female poster and you can livestream all your poison onto the thread and it can be deleted permanently in the morning.

        Hy. My name is twinkletoes. I’m 5ft five, 100% non-squeak warm-touch pvc.
        I am programmed to submit to your every whim and demand.

        [come on , your turn ]

        • Capt Bluntschli

          it’s a spiritual thing Guano, you who sit in the confines of your Islamic prison. And cling to it out of your own insecurity in fear.(How’s the politics of your Pakistani brothers spying on u going?)

        • Charles Bostock

          “Some deeply troubling childhood experience with females has scarred you for life.”

          You’re one to talk, Guano. Your various posts over time have revealed you to be a pretty fucked-up sort of guy when it comes to women. Was it the public school and Oxford upbringing you told us about?

          • Republicofscotland

            People in glasshouses as they say Charles.

            Isn’t Capt.B formerly aka the Village(r) idiot persona.

    • Charles Bostock

      “Remembering the horror and the terror. We marched to the Israeli Embassy, we protested, we gathered together, we listened to stirring speeches (including from Craig). Did we achieve anything? The Palestinians are still being killed and wounded.”

      Exactly – you’ve achieved zilch, nada, bubkis. And you and your ilk will continue to achieve zilch, dada and bubkis with your antics and stirringly speacifying away.

      Why do you bother? Public opinion in the West is not stupid and, apart from a few excited lefties, students working out their burst of hormones and Nanterre “radicals” (who nevertheless are cheerleaders for Macron), it is overwhelmingly supportive of Israel.

    • Clark

      Sharp Ears, we never know what we achieve, because we cannot compare the consequences with those of any path we did not take. The Israeli attack stopped soon after the protest. The widespread public disapproval of Israel’s attack almost certainly played a role.

  • able

    The question to emerge out of Craig’s latest Twitter spat (will he ever stop digging?) is:

    Is he more concerned that he’s been made to look a fool by swallowing Russian disinformation, or that taxpayer pounds were partially responsible for revealing the truth?

    • BrianFujisan

      Craig is Indeed A Fool.. He really should Belive Western Disinformation – Sorry LIES – bbC are the Experts at Exporting, Sanitizing the west’s Blood letting Carnage Fests.. Grab a Deck Chair, Gaza FryingTonight.

  • mark golding

    “Saving Syria’s Children” was faked – Interestingly in messaging conversations with DoctorsforIraq on Douma an intermittent break in end-to-end encryption indicated a third party might have joined the conversation (‘legal’ under the UK Investigatory Powers Act). Mathematicians just love to pass ‘pots’ of juicy ‘intelligence’. And that is how GCHQ might get busted for illegal monitoring…

    • Clark

      Thanks for that link Mark.

      All so utterly stupid. Any serious criminals know to use encryption software over which they have complete control and knowledge, and these (or any) new legal provisions can do nothing to stop that. So these proposed measures are useless against any real professionals, but they compromise everyone else’s privacy and security.

    • pete

      Yes, I endorse the view about the excess monitoring of our communications, sadly, in the UK, we have no written constitution to protect basic free speech and from being spied on. A hard Brexit will cost us the right to appeal on a free speech basis to a European court.
      I suppose that is also why we are now seeing more and more communications being made at the peer to peer level, bypassing central servers, using open source applications that may be more difficult to hack. And why the E Mail system, Thunderbird, is currently working on a simplified way to use PGP easily. Even small businesses are setting up closed networks that communicate peer to peer because of the intrusiveness of the major players and the loss of security. All these concerns were spelt out in the EFF document here:
      I have cited it before but it is well worth a perusal.

      • Clark

        The potential value of controlling the backdoor system is comparable to the entire on-line economy. That’s a big incentive, but we’re sure we can keep it from leaking because we’re giving it to the spooks, who have cover of secrecy and know all the most powerful shady characters in the world. Great! I feel safer already.

    • giyane

      captain tat

      No need to hear it again . You’ll wake the neighbours. In summary Brexit removes the UK from the tyranny of the EU financial control. Bin there. done that. please keep up . What we are now discussing is how to put EU financial control permanently back after we have lost the benefits of free trade free movement etc from belonging to Europe. It’s in the news. It’s called the “Withdrawal Agreement”

  • zoot

    invoices reveal ‘ security consultant ‘ dan kaszeta was paid over £2,000 by integrity initiative to write a piece insisting porton down had nothing to do with the presence of novichok in salisbury.

  • David

    Here’s an attempt at “News analysis & feedback” to displease the sort of “right wing abusive” (RWA) trolls that seem to be annoying the BBC R4 narrative today; an Eric Züsse article that tries (a bit too hard) to show (accurately) that BBC & Wikipedia are wrong, therefore his anti-narrative points of view are right.

    The conclusion is probably correct, even though our own right wing nudger (RWN) trolls here are actively nudging against Eric. I partly agree that he’s not yet as good at communicating as he ought to be/needs to be.
    (I’m finding the above URL a bit poorly this morning, back-up available on wacky doom-laden ZH site)

    Highlighting a positive article that does communicate brilliantly is this attempt at explaining Trumps and his ‘uncivil war’, it’s honest, open, and I can trust and believe both this well written article, and actually also those that are less focused but somehow professionally annoy our resident RWN’s who have an otherwise ‘genuine people personality’, subtle.

    • freddy

      Find it slightly ironic that the (probably correct) conclusion of the first first article specifically calls out Rolling Stone for deceit. But I enjoyed both articles, thanks.

    • Sharp Ears

      The article deals with the smearing of Prof Michel Chossudovsky who runs the Global Research website. Whenever I have referred to him on here, he has been rubbished immediately by one of the RWN trolls on here, as you so correctly describe them.

      • freddy

        Logically every person on this blog, bar the most left wing, will be a right wing nudger (RWN) to some degree.

        It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it.

        It’s not healthy to call everyone who disagrees with your politics a troll – although some are I’m sure.

        Sorry – no intention to be trollish.

      • Charles Bostock

        Prof Michel lays himself open to comprehensive rubbishing by virtue of the partiality, bias and dishonesty of his oeuvre. Like Pilger, Loach, Chomsky and several others, he has achieved “status” – but, unfortunately for him, not credibility – by specialising in bashing the West and liberal democracy and fawning on any country or tinpot leader he fondly imagines could pose a threat to the West and liberal democracy.

          • Rowan Berkeley

            @Charles Bostock: ” the West and liberal democracy.”
            There is no such thing as “liberal democracy.” The phrase is a contradiction in terms. Liberalism is plutocratic. If each citizen has equal rights in law, the only differences between them spring from their wealth. I refuse to believe that the most public-spirited citizens will be adopted as candidates, out of the goodness of their hearts, by parties which are financed by the rich. The parties adopt candidates out of the interest of preserving or ncreasing their wealth. There is consequently no ‘democracy’ under liberalism.

        • Glasshopper

          What do you make of Peter Hitchens, who comes from the conservative right but draws similar conclusions on issues like Russia and Syria to Pilger and co?

          • Charles Bostock

            What do I make of him? I think he’s a Johnny-come-lately compared to the rest of that shower.

          • Glasshopper

            The point is you don’t have to be left wing to oppose flooding Syria with terrorists or re-launching the Cold War.

            If you read the comments at The Telegraph and The Mail you will find many people from all political persuasions with the same view on these issues.

            Does anybody of any political side seriously think destroying Libya was a smart move?

        • freddy

          Charles, so rather than address the substance of Prof Michael’s comments, or provide evidence, you prefer to play the man (person whatever) not the ball. Smear by association etc – the West should not be beyond criticism, especially when it is patently neither very liberal (in the older sense) nor democratic.

          Good news – you’ve more in common with some people here than you think.

  • Sharp Ears

    Yesterday’s Q&A on Universal Credit.

    Note how Duncan Smith (Rudd’s predecessor and the instigator of UC) immediately appears to prop up Amber Rudd in the further implementation of this cruel legislation.

    Rudd’s background in investment banking and venture capitalism fits her perfectly for the role.

    Duncan Smith was in office 2010-16. He was followed by Crabb, Green, Gauke, McVey and then Rudd who arrived in the job in November. Great continuity there from the Tories, ie five of them in 2 years.

  • Charles Bostock

    So Mr Julian Assange has been nominated for the Nobel Peace Prize.

    There is jubilation from some, ridicule from others and total indifference from the overwhelming majority.

    Pausing for a moment to note that the person nominating him is herself a Nobel Peace Prize laureate whose achievements in the service of peace (in Northern Ireland) achieved nothing, I wonder if anyone could tell us what exactly Mr Julian Assange has done to promote peace and receive this award, especially in the light of the Nobel Committee’s guidelines in the matter?

    (I hope the above will be seen as a serious question and not as a criticism of Me Julian Assange, mention of whom usually brings out all the sollicitude of which certain Mods are capable, and therefore deletion)

  • Node

    It’s just like old times. Anon 1, Voyager and Habbabkuk are all here again this morning, telling us why we should hate and fear foreigners. They disguise their racism behind contrived justifications and pseudonyms.

      • giyane

        Mary Pau!

        Obviously UK or Canadian passports should not be provided for services rendered to the British secret state and its criminals wars.
        Eastern European immigration has been perfectly legal under free movement rules. This has enabled private investors to buy up cheap bits of Eastern Europe. Annoyance is felt on both sides.
        Immigrants who initially would work for £20 per day rapidly move on to £20 per hour when they have acquired the right skills. If the criminal British secret state stopped bombing and proxy murdering other sovereign nations , against international law, the supply of cheap immigrants would stop as well.

        In other words the best way to stop unwanted immigration is for the British criminal secret state to stop allying themselves with the anti-Muslim agenda of Israel.

        • MaryPau!

          Why would the actions you ascribe to the criminal British secret state, have any impact on the desire of Eastern Europeans to migrate to the UK under EU Freedom of Movement rules?

          • giyane

            Mary Pau!

            I was talking about immigrants who want to live in their own homes in their own countries but can’t because their countries have been trashed by USUKIS proxy jihadists, not immigrants who can go home for xmas on a bus.

      • Node

        It is perfectly possible to want to control immigration into your country without hating or fearing foreigners.

        Agreed, but why tell me? Tell the people who use use immigration and/or terrorism and/or cultural differences and/or religion, etc, etc, etc, as excuses to attack foreigners, and disguise themselves with pseudonyms when the racism behind those excuses becomes too obvious.

        • Loony

          Never mind the boring and puerile racism accusations. Tell me, tell me, c’mon tell me the answer. Do you think Europe should import something over 2 billion extra people in the medium term?

          How do you think this will work out? If you want to import less than 2 billion then by your own definitions you appear to qualify as “Racist in Chief”

          • giyane

            Au clair de la lune …
            aaoooooooowwww! aaoooooooowwww!
            All the scavengers are circling round the humans huddling round the camp fire today, waiting for sunset, when Mrs May’s racist Brexit closes on the proceedings after sunset.

          • Loony

            How shocked I am to see that you have no sensible contribution to make.

            Consider that in 1970 the population of Ethiopia was about 29 million. Today it is something over 81 million. In your self appointed role as Nietzschean Superman are you volunteering to personally look after these extra 52 million people? Or could it be that this is all the responsibility of someone else – obviously not the Ethiopians themselves, so presumably the European masses have been selected. Any reticence on their part gets them branded racist and any attempt to fulfill the insane demands placed on them gets them literally and figuratively crushed.

            If Adolf Hitler flew in today, your morals would compel you to send a limousine anyway.

          • Node

            Loony, you have missed my point and are trying to superimpose your own point onto it. I do not claim that the three stooges named above are racists because they oppose migration, I claim they have proved themselves racists over many years by the skin colour of their targets and the pretexts they use to attack them. Immigration is just one of those pretexts.

            BTW, your understanding of population growth is out by a factor of 12. See HERE.

          • SA

            Tell me .
            Should Europe and US stop exploiting the rest of the world and instead work to create prosperity instead of encouraging larceny on a grand scale in the 4th world?

  • Sharp Ears

    Alex Salmond has won his case against the Scottish Government, with costs. He thanked those who crowd funded his case. He regrets the colossal waste of public funds.

    • Vivian O'Blivion

      The Scottish Government’s most senior officer, Leslie Evans has issued a statement post the findings. Loaded with ego and hubris.
      Evans states that “There is nothing to suggest that the investigating officer did not conduct their duties in an impartial way.”
      This does not chime with Lord Pentlands finding that the procedure was “tainted with apparent bias.”
      Evans goes on to state that regards conducting a further investigation (that would be a third internal inquiry if anyone is counting) “it would be our intention to consider this” …. “once ongoing police inquiries have concluded”. So if Salmond is cleared by the polis Leslie intends to come back for another go. Talk about refusal to admit your own mistakes. Still it’s only other people’s money that’s being pissed against an Edinburgh, legal establishment wall.

    • MaryPau!

      Clearly Salmond likes a drink (Wine) and a gamble (Song). Most men, in my experience
      who harbour two such weaknesses struggle to find the time and energy for a third ornification (Women) in Salmond’s case. I realise Scottish law is different from English law but I would have thought both required substantive evidence to arrest and charge someone. I am minded at present of the poor couple who were arrested recently in Sussex on trumped up charges of flying a drone and now look totally distraught.. No sign of any real apology from the Sussex police there either.

      • michael norton

        Mary Paul, yes, no police apology for helping to ruin an innocent couple’s Christmas holiday.
        They should publicly name the informant.
        It may turn out to be a public servant, like an MI5 officer?

  • Republicofscotland

    This excellent article in the Irish Examiner, explains why Julian Assange merits a nomination for a Nobel Peace prize.

    Assange in my opinion merits the award, for keeping the public informed on the machinations of governments around the globe, especially on the Great Satan the US.

    He’s paid a heavy price of years of arbitrary detention in the Ecuadorian embassy, to bring us information on a whole range of topics, whilst fighting off unjust accusations and the constant fear of abduction or extradition if he sets foot outside the embassy.

    It now seems only fair and proper, that in 2019 that Assange’s great work should be recognised by the Nobel Foundation, by awarding Mr Assange a Nobel Peace prize.

    Indeed Alfred Nobel, had a synthetic element named after him Nobelium, I see no reason why Julian Assange shouldn’t have a similar award.

    • Glasshopper

      “especially on the Great Satan the US”

      Actually He’s also released huge numbers of docs critical of Putin and Russia, amongst many other places, but this is less well known because it doesn’t fit the MSM narrative that he has a specifically anti-western agenda.

      It’s an important point to make, and people on this site should refrain from re-enforcing the smears.

      • Republicofscotland

        What part of governments around the globe do you not understand, which includes Russia?

        However the Great Satan, (Consecutive US administrations) surely must be at the pinnacle of global interference.

  • Sharp Ears

    My post about some MPs and others who have defrauded the taxpayers of £17,000 in unpaid food and drink bills in the House of Commons was obviously not worthy of remaining up.

  • isa

    Damian Collins Committee on fake news

    To add to Bill Browder and the Spanish Cluster of the Integrity Initiative being heard by Damian Collins , another member of the II was also heard: To my great embarrassment, a Portuguese national and UK resident , Victor Madeira one of the most anti Russia rabid members of the II .

    • isa

      Went to Cambridge to do a PHD under Christopher Andrew -Secret service historian – finishes PHD in 2009. Works in a security company post PHD (Portugal or Canada, it is not clear) and in 2012 returns to the UK to write his first anti Russia book and was then hired as a senior fellow for the IOS in 2014. Lovely, talk about being brainwashed at UNI, but I suspect his anti left rethoris came from before.

      • Dungroanin

        The pathocracy identifies the psychopaths it needs to manage their empire at an early age – do they enjoy pulling off spider legs; that type of thing.

        These youngsters are than hot housed and introduced to their future and shown the Seat At The Table – they could earn for them and their progeny once they have delivered for the kings of the Empire.

        Rhodes, Churchill… the Clintons, the Blairs…most of the compromised MSM wonks. Military and police of course, Academia, Corporate types, Politicians … and the Bankers.

        Their reward to get a closer and closer seat to the centre – most won’t ever get to know the true Kings, unless they achieve the closest table to them.

        ALL history is written by them. All wars are made by them. All financial booms and busts are managed by them. The plans are decades in the making. They don’t do short term. The next shock is underway, the third world war is raging – it is using new weapons – economic, not old fashioned gunpowder and trenches and tanks and bombers. They are ready to remove privacy and personal financial independence by giving us all electronic money – which can be turned on or off at a whiff of rebellion. No cash – No choice.

        Many psychopaths really want to be part of this Pathocracy and reverse the path of human development of social democracy and consience, back to that of a few masters and the rest as their slaves.

        Picking some of the psychopathic slaves to control all the rest – like they did in the ghettoes and camps, as the capos. They would happily sell their friends and children and grannies to satisfy their lusts for power and money.

        It is a choice, Craig Murray made it as did Manning and Snowden and Assange and many more are doing daily as we get self informed and more people blow whistles on the big Lies.

        Either be a cog in the Pathocracy or RESIST and save the Human race and Life on Earth.

        • michael norton

          Well said Dungroanin.
          You left a bit out, the obscene cost of university, which means over half will never be able to outright own their own home, debt slaves for all their lives.

          • isa

            Michael, that is true as well . In this case he arrived in Cambridge with a PHD grant from Canada, I am not too sure grant / subsidised phd (I am assuming because he was an exceptional Uni performer) is the correct word. He states in an interview he was chosen to work with Chris Andrew. Apparently he is very precocious as well as he learned all about Russia desinformation when he was in his very early teens in the 80’s in Mozambique …

        • freddy

          So that’s what black-pilled sounds like!

          The only thing I’d add is that the system creates the psychopaths. not simply talent-spots. There is a cycle of abuse within certain families (being careful not to mention any names)

  • Sharp Ears

    Erdogan is not best pleased with US moves in the ME.

    ‘Serious Mistake’: Erdogan Snubs Bolton Over Syria Kurds, Blasts U.S. for Double-speak
    ‘Elements of U.S. administration are saying different things,’ Turkish president tells lawmakers, after Trump aide said Syria pullout was conditioned on Turkey ensuring the safety of Kurdish fighters

    • michael norton

      Trump on Monday struck back at the perception that his intentions in Syria had changed. “No different from my original statements, we will be leaving at a proper pace while at the same time”

      There does seem to be several views, from America, in what withdrawing from Syria, actually means.

      I wonder if America have been in direct contact with Syria.

      The flip-over was the downing of the Russia Surveilence aircraft, over the Eastern Mediterranean, possibly by the Syrians, in response to the cowardly Israeli attack, hiding behind the Russian plane.
      Then Russia deciding to impliment the S-300 deployment to the Syrian Government.

      This now means that any aircraft can be brought down.
      So, time for America to go home, or at least as far away as Cyprus.

      • Paul Barbara

        @ michael norton January 8, 2019 at 15:07
        ‘,,,So, time for America to go home, or at least as far away as Cyprus.’
        Or as far as Iraq, as Trump said. That has always been the intention, strategic permanent bases in Iraq.
        Whether the Iraqi government will wear it for too long is questionable.

  • Blunderbuss

    @David 08:28

    Re: Wikipedia and Philip Cross

    Another Wikipedia editor to watch is Jytdog. I suspect he is actually several people because he edits non-stop like Philip Cross.

    Jytdog’s speciality is Wikipedia medical articles. He ensures that they support big pharma and dismiss alternative therapies as “pseudoscience”. He is also fanatically pro-vaccination. Any editor who questions the safety of vaccines quickly gets banned from editing.

    Jytdog is widely believed to have a conflict of interest but, whenever he is investigated, he is always exonerated. It appears that he has powerful friends.

    • Paul Barbara

      @ Blunderbuss January 8, 2019 at 15:48
      ‘….He is also fanatically pro-vaccination. Any editor who questions the safety of vaccines quickly gets banned from editing….’
      ‘TRIPLETS all become autistic within hours of vaccination… see shocking video that has the vaccine industry doubling down on lies and disinfo’:
      A very harrowing account, should give some pro-vaxxers to waver…

      • Kempe

        “|He ensures that they support big pharma and dismiss alternative therapies as “pseudoscience”. He is also fanatically pro-vaccination. Any editor who questions the safety of vaccines quickly gets banned from editing. ”

        Good for him.

        ” TRIPLETS all become autistic within hours of vaccination… ”

        A follows B so therefore A must be caused by B. A common logical error.

        Why has it taken 11 years for this story to come out? Convenient as it’s now impossible to verify.

          • Clark

            Why? Isn’t it more likely that they’re just stupid, selfish sheeple out to get money from a court settlement? After all, that’s apparently your opinion of most of the population, especially doctors, scientists and mechanical engineers. Oh, and secret agents, like you seem to think I am.

      • SA

        These kind of posts are not useful. If what this article alleges was right then the implication is that they have managed to discover something, by heresay that many scientists around the world have failed to discover with a lot of dedicated painstaking research. Such a casual approach to facts and science and false belief in conspiracy ridden wide scale deception by scientists could only lead back to the Stone Age and beyond.

        • Paul Barbara

          @ SA January 9, 2019 at 03:47
          ‘….many scientists around the world have failed to discover with a lot of dedicated painstaking research….’
          That is not the case. There are hundreds of doctors around the world who know damn well it is true, and hundreds or thousands of studies.
          It’s just that Big Pharma has beaucoup floose, and bribes the politicians and scientists (or ‘lobbies’ them).
          Trump just proves the point: ‘Trump picks ex-pharma executive Azar to lead HHS’:

          And the Monsanto/Government ‘revolving door’ is pretty infamous:
          ‘How Monsanto Invaded, Occupied and now CONTROLS Government Regulators’:

          The CDC is guilty of deliberately covering up an abominable slip-up re the amount of mercury babies and young children were getting in vaccines, just because it would have embarrassed the CDC for not realising the simple logic of multiple vaccinations creating way over the top overdoses of mercury (even by their standards).
          ‘…These kind of posts are not useful…’ Why, because the truth causes cognitive dissonance?

          • SA

            No because they conflate fact with fiction. Anecdotes never make good science. You completely discount all of the benefits of modern medicine because some people make use and misuse them. You also then move on by sleight of hand to Monsanto, a different thing altogether.
            When you say hundreds of doctors and scientists, who are they? And what about the counterbalancing millions who believe in the science and practice it.
            Yes I understand that big pharma does manipulate medicine and overcharge but the advances in modern medicine are staggering and should not be completely tarred by the misdemeanours of some executives and politicians.

          • Paul Barbara

            @ SA January 9, 2019 at 04:29
            ‘…Anecdotes never make good science…’ Do you believe the parents are lying, when they say that all three triplets ‘ashut off’ within hours of getting their shot?
            ‘…You also then move on by sleight of hand to Monsanto, a different thing altogether…’
            A different thing altogether? How do you figure that out? It is precisely the same, a huge Corporation hiding the very real dangers of their products (and yes, a multi-million case against Monsanto was won by mandatory ‘legal disclosure’ proving Monsanto knew of the dangers, and covered them up). But the poor geezer hasn’t got a penny yet, and Monsanto will string the appeals out till he is dead (he is terminally ill).
            You ask me who the hundreds of doctors are. All I would be doing is wasting my time, as you would just dismiss them, no matter what credentials the have. You could very easily find them yourself.
            Watch ‘Vaxxed’:

          • SA

            This coverup of autism and the MMR vaccine has been dealt with and the doctor who started this hoax has been struck off. Please understand that a parent saying that there children got struck down with autism a short while after having vaccine means nothing. It is just a statement, an observation. But to understand cause and effect you need deeper analyses than a simple observation by parents. If a bird of prey passes over your house and then it burns down 5 minutes later you do not rush to say that the bird of prey caused the fire do you?

          • Clark

            The doctor certainly did wrong, but it was the mainstream, corporate media, along with Tony and Cherie Blair who magnified it to a nationwide hoax, thereby damaging the health of of a number of people.

          • Clark

            “The CDC is guilty of deliberately covering up an abominable slip-up re the amount of mercury babies and young children were getting in vaccines, just because it would have embarrassed the CDC for not realising the simple logic of multiple vaccinations creating way over the top overdoses of mercury.”

            If true, this is an important story. However, various assertions are bundled into one claim. I would question “just because it would have embarrassed the CDC…”. It is more likely that the incentive to cover up was monetary, or to do with industry cooperation with regulators, or the “revolving door”, or a combination of these.

            But, if true, this story is important enough to deserve being protected from being discredited by association with fictitious conspiracy theories.

          • Clark

            SA, 09:52; “bird of prey”? If Paul Barbara’s house catches fire, it’s a foregone conclusion that it was a Directed Energy Weapon, attacking him personally because he’s such a Truth Speaker! Obviously. And we all know whodunit, eh, Paul, hint hint nudge nudge. That’s why you asked me if I was one.

          • Paul Barbara

            @ SA January 9, 2019 at 09:52
            Watch ‘Vaxxed’, and hear the ‘doctor who was struck off’ give his side of the story.
            If yo are really interested in vaccines, check it out. I gave the link previously.
            Re your ‘bird of prey’, never dismiss that of which you have no knowledge. Omens can indeed be significant, but I have yet to see a bird of prey, or even a robin, with a box of Swan Vestas.

    • Clark

      “Any editor who questions the safety of vaccines quickly gets banned from editing”

      I suspect that this statement exaggerates to the point of dishonesty.

      So, if I look up a vaccine on Wikipedia, I’ll find that any well-established dangers it has have been expunged, will I? Come on Blunderbuss; are you being entirely honest here?

        • Paul Barbara

          @ Clark January 8, 2019 at 23:00
          You’ve pulled this kind of stunt before. Keep hammering away till you get your way.
          You got another important thread stopped by your tantrums.

          • SA

            You seem to be an excellent political activist but please do not muddle fact with fiction, science with beliefs and find conspiracy where there is none. A lot of so called evidence that is produced against vaccines and such like by conspiracy theorists, yes, I repeat, conspiracy theorists, is based on poor anecdotal observations and not science. Humanity needs to move on and the way forward is science. Yes of course the way to medical progress has been littered with some mistakes a such as the thalidomide tragedy but that was not based on conspiracy, just bad methodology and ignorance Scientific method examines the options and gets the answer by examining the evidence but the CTs work by bending the evidence according to a preconceived answer

          • wonky

            “Humanity needs to move on and the way forward is science.”
            That is a gravely wrong conclusion.
            Humanity needs to move on and the way forward is wisdom.

          • Clark

            Paul Barbara, I find myself in a difficult position. My primary dedication has to be to God, but I find that brings me into conflict with you. Which should I serve, Paul?

          • SA

            And science creates the methodology by which we can devise experiments and make observations that advance knowledge and therefore wisdom. Wisdom does not come from thin air but through careful reflection of facts.

          • wonky

            Hi Clark.
            Yes. It does require discipline and courage to allow truth.
            It can be practised by admitting one’s own errors. One at a time.
            And by making friends with one’s conscience rather than drowning it in a sea of information and distraction.
            No further techniques, academic or otherwise, necessary. Goodness and wisdom result naturally.
            So simple, and yet.. in post-modern, post-private, post-democratic neoliberalism, nothing is more outmoded than truth and goodness, to the point where admitting to an error seems harder and more unimaginable than collective suicide.
            Where wisdom is so far out of sight, that our hopes now rest on AI machines for compensation.

          • wonky

            Hi SA,
            And yet, some of the most unwise people I’ve ever met, were honoured academics, brilliant in their field of science..

          • Clark

            Wonky, I agree with most of your 14:38 comment, though I think “no further techniques, academic or otherwise, necessary” is rather over-simplified, particularly for assessment of complex matters.

            My intuition is that you regard me as unwise. Is that right?

          • Ivan Sharkov

            @Clark I don’t think there is a universal agreement on what exactly TRUTH is. It is generally different for every single individual.

          • Paul Barbara

            @ SA January 9, 2019 at 09:58
            ‘…Yes of course the way to medical progress has been littered with some mistakes a such as the thalidomide tragedy but that was not based on conspiracy, just bad methodology and ignorance…’
            Please, watch ‘Vaxxed’. There you will learn that after a drug was banned in Canada (for very good reason) it was then marketed in another country, only to cause untold damage. When it got banned there, it was marketed in another country, repeating the untold damage.
            I suspect you genuinely believe you are right, and are trying to get me to see the ‘error of my ways’, but check out ‘Vaxxed’, then come back to me on it.

          • wonky

            Clark, apologies if my reply gave you that impression.
            I can find nothing unwise in the pursuit of goodness, truth or God.
            Neither would I consider it unwise to keep a proper trustful relation with one’s intuition.
            However, intuition can be treacherous when it comes to the internet, as it cannot rely on the full set of sensory information necessary for its otherwise surprisingly flawless functioning.

          • Clark

            Paul Barbara, January 10, 04:32; I’d be very surprised if Vaxxed turns out to be entirely balanced and truthful. On the other hand, I expect it to contain some interesting facts. You wrote:

            “…after a drug was banned in Canada (for very good reason) it was then marketed in another country, only to cause untold damage. When it got banned there, it was marketed in another country, repeating the untold damage”

            Yes, and I could find numerous similar examples, because I’ve read Goldacre’s second book, Bad Pharma. But the fact that this drug got banned in place after place completely defeats your own conspiracy theory that all the universities, companies and national regulators are conspiring to suppress the damage done by medical procedures.

          • Clark

            Wonky, January 11, 13:41: I very much agree with that; intuition provides us with ideas to investigate; it helps to point out directions, sometimes spectacularly. And on the opposite side, reason, rationality, logic and due respect for evidence provide the rigorous checking, to prevent appealing ideas from running away with us.

        • Ivan Sharkov

          @Clark I didn’t get it. Was that supposed to be humorous or clever? When I said there was no agreement whether TRUTH exists at all I simply remembered what we discussed during our Philosophy classes some time ago. Of course things might have changed since. I have been away from the books for a long while.

          • Clark

            At the philosophical level, truth is a complicated matter. There’s clearly something which we call truth, but no one entirely agrees what it is.

            The scientific level is more practical; the objective is to eliminate falsity. This is a major purpose of the scientific method; to sort out what we can rely on from the mass of differing claims and viewpoints, and thus converge upon the truth. That is why it is dishonest to claim to be scientific while disregarding facts, logic and reason, which define the rules of scientific endeavour.

      • Clark

        Blunderbuss, if you play rhetoric with this like you did with climate science, your comments may increase the number of people who suffer or die unnecessarily. Actual, identifiable individuals who your advice influences. I think, that to be permitted to continue down this path, you should have to provide a verified, real-world identity. That would only be fair.

        • Blunderbuss

          I’m not giving any advice to anyone. Personally, I’m in favour of vaccination. However, I also think that people who have concerns about vaccination should be allowed to opt out and should not be condemned for doing so.

          • Clark

            Answer the question Blunderbuss. If I look up a vaccine on Wikipedia, will I find that any well-established dangers it has have been expunged?

          • Clark

            MODERATORS. I think that Blunderbuss should be banned from this site, or at least placed on permanent pre-mod. The pattern is clear. Blunderbuss promotes inflammatory off-topic pseudoscientific arguments on this site, and argues them in a very slippery manner. It is deliberate disruption, intending to bring a whistle-blower’s site into disrepute.

            [ Mod: Please send your request to Craig via the usual address. ]

          • Clark

            MODERATORS. No. You tell him. He doesn’t even answer his ‘phone to me. We now have a situation where Blunderbuss is deliberately endangering the health of children. YOU have hands-on control of the comments.

          • Blunderbuss


            Please read my post of 00:18 above. How can you possibly interpret it as “deliberately endangering the health of children”?

          • Clark

            Blunderbuss’s comment of January 8 at 15:48 deliberately promotes a conspiracy theory which promotes fear of vaccination. Blunderbuss then claims at January 9, at 00:18 to be personally in favour of vaccination. Such behaviour is directly self-contradictory.

            Blunderbuss promotes pseudoscientific arguments while claiming to be a retired scientist. Blunderbuss hides behind a cloak of anonymity.

            Blunderbuss therefore appears to be a skilful manipulator who has no conscientious objection to deceiving, nor against endangering children’s health.

          • Blunderbuss

            @Clark 01:27

            You are accusing me of saying something I have not said. I have not said that Wikipedia suppresses warnings about possible side-effects of vaccines issued by the manufacturers.

            What I said was “Any editor who questions the safety of vaccines quickly gets banned from editing”. I was referring to statements made by Wikipedia editors, not to official warnings from manufacturers.

            Are you Jytdog on Wikipedia? Trying to get me banned is exactly what Jytdog would do.

          • Blunderbuss

            “Blunderbuss’s comment of January 8 at 15:48 deliberately promotes a conspiracy theory which promotes fear of vaccination. Blunderbuss then claims at January 9, at 00:18 to be personally in favour of vaccination. Such behaviour is directly self-contradictory”.

            1) I am not promoting a conspiracy theory. Where did you get that from?

            2) My behaviour is not self-contradictory. Unlike you, I allow people to hold views I disagree with.

          • Clark

            Blunderbuss, Wikipedia editor Philip Cross was banned from editing certain topics at Wikipedia. So it seems you may have something in common.

            My Wikipedia account is Clark42. I have no other, and I have never even encountered any edits by Jytdog. How did YOU come to know of Jytdog’s edits? What is your Wikipedia editor’s account name?

            For the benefit of Paul Barbara, WHY do pharmaceutical manufacturers “issue warnings”? WHERE do those warnings originate?

            STOP manipulating people less informed than yourself such as Dave and Paul Barbara.

          • Clark

            Blunderbuss, January 9 at 09:26:

            “Unlike you, I allow people to hold views I disagree with”

            This is a sly ad hominen attack. I have no power to prevent the promotion of lies, but I do object to it.

            TRUTH, Justice Peace.

          • Blunderbuss


            “And Blunderbuss, WHY do you hide your real-world identity?”

            Same reason as you do. You’re not planning to publish your full name and postal address on this blog, are you?

          • Blunderbuss


            “Blunderbuss, Wikipedia editor Philip Cross was banned from editing certain topics at Wikipedia. So it seems you may have something in common”.

            Yes, I’ve been banned from Wikipedia several times, for the same reason that you are trying to ban me from this blog – i.e. I had a disagreement with somebody.

            I’m not going to tell you my Wikipedia account name because it would probably result in you stalking me on Wikipedia.

          • Blunderbuss


            “For the benefit of Paul Barbara, WHY do pharmaceutical manufacturers “issue warnings”? WHERE do those warnings originate?”

            Pharmaceuticals often have side-effects and pharmaceutical manufacturers warn patients about them by putting leaflets in the box with the pills. I assume the warnings originate as feedback from patients who have suffered the side-effects.

          • Blunderbuss


            “STOP manipulating people less informed than yourself such as Dave and Paul Barbara.”

            To Dave and Paul Barbara – do you feel manipulated by me?

          • Blunderbuss


            ” – “Unlike you, I allow people to hold views I disagree with”

            This is a sly ad hominen attack. I have no power to prevent the promotion of lies, but I do object to it”.

            Well, you are certainly very intolerant of my views – so much so, that you seem to believe that everything I say is a lie.

          • Clark

            I publish my real-world identity. My web space with my contact page is down due to my depression:


            Ah, so no one will be able to judge the quality of your Wikipedia edits. I have never been banned from Wikipedia. The rules seem pretty fair, and I keep to them. But then I’m not in the business of promoting my personal opinions over the available evidence.

            So what are you claiming? That any patient can make any allegation about side effects and the manufacturers will publish it? Or that the manufacturers get to pick and choose which complaints they’ll publish? Or that you don’t know, or don’t care, or what? Don’t you think you should care, if you’re going edit public health information on Wikipedia? After all, if you’re wrong, suffering and death will be the result.

          • Clark

            Of course they don’t feel manipulated by you; you’re telling them exactly what they want to hear. That’s what’s manipulative about it.

          • Blunderbuss

            @Clark 18:42

            How do you know what Dave and Paul feel? Let them speak for themselves.

          • Blunderbuss

            @Clark 18:39

            OK, you publish your contact details and I don’t. It’s a matter of personal choice.

            I don’t claim to be the source of all wisdom. When I edit Wikipedia, I’m editing Wikipedia – I’m not writing a medical textbook. Your scaremongering about “suffering and death” is absurd.

            You’ve accused me of an ad hominem attack. Have you forgotten about the many times you have accused me of being a liar, cheat and deceiver, simply because I disagree with you?

          • Blunderbuss

            @Clark 18:39

            This stuff about publishing details of side-effects. If you know all about it then why don’t you tell us? You can then ensure that your version (which is the only correct version) is known to all of us.

          • Clark

            Blunderbuss, I’ve said it before and I’ll keep saying it until you stop lying about what I say.

            It’s not your beliefs I object to. It’s the unscientific, pseudoscientific, dishonest, self-contradictory, slippery conspiracy theorist manner in which you argue and promote them.

            That is not an ad hominen attack because it is based objectively upon your own writings. You lie about facts in order to promote your preferred conclusion. For instance, you lied that water vapour does not appear in climate models, that the IPCC consider nothing but CO2, and that they do not consider solar variance. You even attempted further dishonesty to support the latter after you were shown it was not true.

            “When I edit Wikipedia, I’m editing Wikipedia – I’m not writing a medical textbook”

            With this you seem to be claiming that it’s OK for Wikipedia to be misleading, because it is not a medical textbook. More slipperiness, see? With your other complaints about “freedom of speech”, you seem to hold that it’s unfair unless Wikipedia publishes misleading information as if it were well established.

            Such activities are most likely to increase the incidence of suffering and death. On what basis do you describe this criticism as “absurd”?

          • Clark

            You actually have to try quite hard to get banned at Wikipedia; one of Wikipedia’s most important rules is “assume good faith”. You most certainly would not get banned just for “questioning the safety of vaccines” as Blunderbuss claims. To be banned, you’d have to repeatedly break the rules, and ignore warnings from other editors.

          • Blunderbuss


            It doesn’t matter what I say, you will continue to attack me because you have an obsession with attacking me, so I will say no more.

          • Clark

            I am not attacking you; I’m exposing the dishonesty and flakiness of the arguments you promote.

            I couldn’t attack you if I tried, because you hide your identity.

            If Jytdog were really “supporting big pharma” as you claimed, s/he would be removing the known side effects of pharmaceuticals. If s/he persisted in that, s/he would incur temporary bans of increasing severity.

          • Clark

            “It doesn’t matter what I say…”

            Oh it very much does. Present a rational argument with due regard to facts, and you will discover that for yourself.

          • Clark

            When I have a spare ten hours or so, I’ll watch Vaxxed and write a line-by-line analysis of it. In the mean time, you should read Bad Science to acquire some of the critical tools needed to understand such matters. I’ll do the one if you’ll do the other; deal?

            We should also arrange meet in London, or you could come out here for a couple of days if you fancy a break in the countryside, so I can draw you a couple of diagrams and we can calculate some forces.

          • Clark

            OK I’ve watched Vaxxed, just once straight through, without stopping to make notes or read documents. About half of the film consists of strong appeals to emotion, returning repeatedly to a handful of parents, mostly mothers, expressing their distress about a child’s affliction and the parents’ conviction that the cause was vaccination.

            There are selected sections from clandestine recordings of Dr William Thompson, the “CDC Whistleblower”. However Thompson subsequently issued a statement which included this passage:

            “I want to be absolutely clear that I believe vaccines have saved and continue to save countless lives. I would never suggest that any parent avoid vaccinating children of any race. Vaccines prevent serious diseases, and the risks associated with their administration are vastly outweighed by their individual and societal benefits.”


            And I suspect that the numbers do not tally; that the post-vaccination autism incidence rates in the CDC study fall far short of accounting for the vastly increased rates of diagnosis of autism. Other, very large observational studies (eg. Smeeth, Madsen) have shown no significant difference between the autism rates of vaccinated and non-vaccinated subjects, and no significant difference between the vaccination rates of autistic and non-autistic subjects, so the cause of the rise of autism is most likely something else, though I suppose there could be something unexpected going on. The film omits any mention at all of such findings, though they are the main reason that most medical scientists reject the argument that vaccines cause autism. To have any scientific credibility, Wakefield’s theory would have to address this.

            The film also promotes a political agenda. Republicans usually wish to reduce government spending on health, and anti-vax is primarily promoted, and believed, by Republicans. In this case, Republicans want a change in US law so that vaccine manufacturers pay compensation to people injured by vaccination, instead of the current situation in which federal government assumes liability.

          • Clark

            It seems to me appropriate that governments rather than manufacturers should pay vaccine injury compensation. Vaccination is a public health programme promoted by government. It’s the government encouraging people to vaccinate, not the manufacturers.

  • Trowbridge H. Ford

    If Trump keeps ramping up The Wall impasse, is there a danger that some government person in growing financial trouble takes it out on the POTUS?

  • Tatyana

    in case you didn’t know:
    Mr. Craig Murray is given Sam Adams award in 2005. The same award as Julian Assange and Edward Snowden.

    “…to reward intelligence officials who demonstrated a commitment to truth and integrity, no matter the consequences.”

    my respect to Mr. Craig Murray now goes as high as no James Bond, or Etan Hunt, or leutenant Ripley (I’m sorry, Ellen Loise, it’s time for me to worship new heroes!) could ever dream of 🙂

      • Tatyana

        thanks for the link, Sharp Ears!
        It is so, I even don’t know correct english word to say what I feel on reading it! Astonishing? Bewildering?
        *my husband entered our kitchen where I sit now with my newly repaired laptop and my jaw dropped and my eyes round! He laughed ‘couse he thought I’m puzzled with some extra software installed by the repair company. OMG, no! it is due to the article you’ve linked!*
        How is it possible that US and Uzbekistan denied him a visa? Yes, it is VERY telling! OMG, VERY VERY telling!

        • Tatyana

          ha ha! these people forbid me to put finger in my nose!
          that is what I think of freedom of speech, freedom of movement and democracy!

        • Tatyana

          it is a childish russian joke, what I refer above

          *a mom and a dad want to have sex. Their son Vova is at home and wouldn’t go to play in the street. So they tell him to sit in his room and be quite and be a nice boy.
          Vova is nothing like a nice boy. He approaches the door of parent’s bedroom and observes *you guess what* through the keyhole.
          In some time he says – My Goodness! These people forbid me to put finger in my nose!*

          • Tatyana

            you haven’t yet known the really awful joke about Vova and his parents! 🙂

            we’ve got a lot of jokes. one or another come to mind on every event.
            this one comes on mind on hearing of “russian trolls’ and ‘integrity initiative’

            ***Vova’s parents, desperate to send him off to play in the open air, and desperate to resist their feelings… they offer him a game: he is to sit at the window looking straightly into the window and not looking back! and Vova is to report everything he sees there.
            Vova says:
            – I see a dog in the street, I see a dove in the street, I see a car passing by…
            I see Ivan in the window of the opposite house across the street.
            Highly likely, Ivan’s parents desided to make sex, too…***

1 7 8 9 10