Goin’ Doon the Watter 541


UPDATE: Craig is on way back to London to be with Wikileaks following the arrest of Julian Assange under the Extradition Act. He does still intend to speak at Rothesay.

Scotland Yard statement:

Julian Assange, 47, (03.07.71) has today, Thursday 11 April, been further arrested on behalf of the United States authorities, at 10:53hrs after his arrival at a central London police station. This is an extradition warrant under Section 73 of the Extradition Act. He will appear in custody at Westminster Magistrates’ Court as soon as possible.

I am speaking in Rothesay at St Paul’s Church Hall, Deanhood Place, at 2pm on Saturday. I am heading back up to Scotland today. I will be there in any circumstances, and will dash back down afterwards should events with Julian and Wikileaks require. I have incidentally had a definitive reply from the Embassy of Ecuador that I am not allowed to visit Julian even though he has asked me to; definitive evidence that Assange is now being treated by Moreno as a prisoner.

I have to confess I have never been to the Isle of Bute, despite a very bad impression of Andy Stewart singing “Goin’ Doon the Watter fur the Fair” being one of the large variety of embarrassing things I am liable to do when drunk. I look forward to it enormously and am grateful to Rothesay Historical Society for hosting me. I always fret that nobody will turn up to hear me and am very honoured when people do.

As ever, I do not know exactly what I will say until I stand up. But I have in mind touching on Scotland’s right to self-determination and the routes to Independence through international recognition. I will argue that a referendum is one route but not the only one, and while I accept it is the most desirable way forward, I shall advance other avenues that might be quite legally pursued if a referendum is blocked, stressing that a nation’s Independence is exclusively a matter of international law, not domestic law.

I shall argue that the Scottish government needs to get on with it and it is a massive mistake to allow the UK government to recover from its chaos and process the Brexit debacle. Scotland should act before the UK regroups, not after.

I shall also argue that just as the Scots have the right of self-determination, so do the English. It is not just bad tactics for the SNP to prioritise stopping Brexit over Independence, it is wrong. The English plainly voted to leave the EU and it is not Scotland’s role to thwart the democratic will of the English people. Scotland should become Independent, and remain an EU member, as its people voted. England and Wales should leave the EU as their people voted, and those who truly believe in Scottish Independence should realise it is not our right to prevent the English from doing what they self-determine. Let’s get Independence and do our own thing, leaving them to do theirs.

There needs to be a referendum on Irish unification.

I shall also ramble around Wikileaks, the Mueller report, the Skripal saga, the Integrity Initiative, and answer questions in any other area. Time now to start back up the A1!


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541 thoughts on “Goin’ Doon the Watter

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    • Ian

      Christ knows what you are talking about, since no-one does, but for your interest the Guardian published an editorial in the last few days, before the arrest, stating that he should not be extradited.

        • Clark

          Bloody sickening. They spend over half a decade smearing and blackening Assange, posting verifiably false articles about him, publish his password to the encrypted leaks database and then falsely blame him for releasing indiscriminately. And then at the last possible moment boost their credibility by saying he shouldn’t be extradited. Utter hypocrisy.

      • John2o2o

        But they still haven’t withdrawn their lie about Julian meeting with Paul Manafort.

        With respect, you should bin the Guardian. It’s not a newspaper, simply a mouthpiece for conceited Establishment liberals.

  • Greg Park

    An exposer of war crimes muscled out of sanctuary by a sad old stuffed lion, in an act of pathetiic servility to its ludicrous orange ape overlord. The captive now an object of mass slanging and slandering by unrepentant war criminals, war fomenters, and bomb sellers. Bringers of mass death who freely bestride the earth like colossi and are doted on in TV studios, breathlessly quoted as upholders of decency and the values of the liberal democratic west. “We Brits do this sort of thing rather well dont we?”

  • John Goss

    Can everyone please do the same as I and Tom Welsh have done and flood their MP’s inboxes with support for an honest man.

    https://www.craigmurray.org.uk/archives/2019/04/goin-doon-the-watter/comment-page-3/#comment-853607

    and

    https://www.craigmurray.org.uk/archives/2019/04/goin-doon-the-watter/comment-page-3/#comment-853614

    It is surprising if enough people start showing their support what effect it might have on MPs who may not be very far from the next General Election.

    • John Goss

      Feel free to post the content of your letters on here. I wrote mine so hurriedly I did not stress that Babar Ahmed and Talha Ahsan were kept in solitary confinement.

      There can be no complacency on this issue. Our basic freedoms depend on not letting countries punish those who point out their war-crimes (however the information is obtained). Freedom of expression is what democracy is about. The ones who should be in the dock are the perpetrators of war-crimes.

  • IrishU

    ‘There needs to be a referendum on Irish unification.’

    I am sure there will be once the test set forward in the Good Friday Agreement and Northern Ireland Act 1998 is met.

    Until then, let’s get on with things of actual importance to the NI, GB and Ireland.

  • Jack

    Hopefully Wikileaks will release some big leaks after this assault They have in past years, if I am not mistaken, said that they will do just that in case something happens to Mr Assange.

    Also Thank you Craig and others that for years have raised awareness about Assange!

  • inequitable

    Frankly I’m appalled but not surprised. This is an absolute farce when a journalist/publisher who has exposed injustices and war crimes is being persecuted as opposed to those that should be held accountable.The injustice and inequity of it all beggars belief and brings shame on Equador, the UK and the US in particular who are driving this as part of what can only be descibed as a deranged imperialist war agenda. If there is any semblance of reason, democracy, freedom of speech that one can have confidence in then Julian Assange would be a free man without delay,held in high esteem with any extradition off the table. Anything less is a travesty and exposes democracy as a sham.The sooner Scotland can extricate itself from the UK the better.

    • Tatyana

      Nothing to be surprised with
      Those that “should be held accountable” are in power now, so, it is the same as we can observe since I don’t know when? Roman Empire maybe?

      I was asked once here, on this blog, about the freedom of speech and something about democracy, regarding Russia vs the Western countries. And I wrote:
      If a government finds you a dangerous person, and if a government has a power to silence you – so they will silence you. If you are a russian person in Russia, so you can fall out of the window, “accidentally”. If you are a western peson and a citizen of some “westerm democracy” you can suddenly find yourself seeking for an asylum in the Ecuadorian Embassy, acused of a sexual crime.

      So, I’m pretty sure now, that there’s nothing new and nothing’s different.
      Those talks about the state’s formation (democracy, tyranny or…), those talk and claims are like a religiuos statements. They are just a colorful disguise, just a scenery, a backdrop – all the talks about “democracy”.
      It is just some gentle words to comfort your concious, to give you a pretext for putting the news for later, to push the event at the backstage of your daily actions. Illusion of doing everything right, according to the law.

      Never, never forget, that the laws are written BY PEOPLE and FOR PEOPLE. Never get convinced of the opposite. The laws are never given to us by some super-power. Democracy means that we, the people, we come together and decide what is good and what is bad for our society.

  • Muscleguy

    “Scotland should act before the UK regroups, not after.”

    I agree wholeheartedly with you Craig.

    If I was in Rothesay I would move heaven and earth to hear you speak.

  • Jack

    Headline in the news – “Trump Says Knows Nothing About Assange’s Arrest, It’s Up to Attorney General to Decide What’s Next in His Case”

    • Sharp Ears

      Thanks Herbie. I have posted Milton Meyer’s words on this blog before, several times over the years.

      They Thought They Were Free. ‘The Germans 1933-45
      ‘Little by little….’

      Truer now than ever before. The state broadcaster’s report on the Six O’Clock News on today’s activity was sickening. They even included the Swedish charges against Julian without saying they had been dropped.
      Landale again.

      • Jack

        Sharp ears

        Unfortunately the rape charges seems to be coming back alive which of course smack of corruption by swedish authorities.

        • Isa

          Yes . Unbelievable ! It’s there for anyone to see . The plot . Conniving criminals . It was done , I believe , with the intent to smear him and turn more people against him who will now cease their support . Disgusting governments .

    • John Goss

      Very disturbing images. I don’t want to watch it a second time.

      I am totally against these war crimes as I expect all decent people are. There are still one or two who comment here who are clearly not against war crimes if their comments aer anything to go by. They seem to be the same category of comment maker which think it is justice for a suspect (Ukraine) to sit on the JIT inquiry into the mass murder of 298 civilians in Malaysian passenger plane (MH17) with the right to veto any decision of the JIT should it point in the direction of Kiev.

      This is the kind of justice we are increasingly seeing in the west whcih was once praised for its justiciary.

  • Casual Observer

    https://www.sentencingcouncil.org.uk/offences/magistrates-court/item/failure-to-surrender-to-bail/

    Given that Mr Assanges fears about being extradited to the USA were he to have surrendered now seem to be proven, thus equipping him with could be seen as a legitimate argument, the sentencing guidelines do appear to suggest a not particularly lengthy period of incarceration. Certainly it would be unreasonable for Javid and May to assume that he can be kept tucked up for the duration of extradition proceedings ?

    As for the woman in Sweden petitioning to have the ‘Unprotected Sex’ allegation reopened, she does seem to be sticking her neck out, as indeed do many figures today. All seemingly ignorant that they have opened an issue upon which both Left and Right seem to share opinions, and which in the age of the internet, they will be unable to news manage.

  • Trowbridge H. Ford

    That bastard Trump was chanting how much he loved Wkileaks, hoping that the Russians would hack Hillary’s emails which would prove that she was a drug addict and a pedophile, but once they did so, finding nonthing to prove she was, Trump forgot everything he loved about Wikileaks.

    In short, he colluded with Putin, but at least he was interested in the truth, not lies the POTUS was claiming. Still, the looney Americans, especially the Democrats hate the Russian leader much more than ours. Wish Putin was running this nut house.

      • Trowbridge H. Ford

        Well, certainly NSA Lt. General Michael Flynn did it with Trump on national tv, but Putin only needed Trump calling for the help.

        That moron Bob Mueller doesn’t watch tv, and knows nothing about it..

    • Tatyana

      I don’t know what is your logics, but mine are simple and clear –
      – if I’m going to live with a man for some years
      – if I’m going to delegate my decisions on him
      – if only I’m going to trust him
      So I will not be concerned a lot with his likes or dislikes. I would be concerned with his real actions and with his own estimates of these actions.
      That’s how things are done in real world.

      And, if you don’t like the man – you get rid of him 🙂

      • Trowbridge H. Ford

        Gather you are responding to me, but I don’t understand why.

        I lived with a woman who did trust me for more than 20 years, and she didn’t ever like me.before she git rid of me It was just easier for us both.

  • ProfessorPlum

    I was wrong about Assange. I was of the opinion that his stay was a ‘self imposed exile’ and was an act of cowardice. Why didnt he just walk out because that is what I would have done?

    The events today and the media response has shown me that he was right. He knew the reality and what he was up against so he was right to take the course of action he did. He will now be carted off to the US on ‘Trumped’ up charges (forgive the pun) and this has all been a co-ordinated plan to remove him now.

    What is not open to interpretation is the medias complete capitulation to the govt narrative.

    This operation has been implemented using the same modus used against Tommy Robinson. Both are considered enemies of the state and so the state responds using the same tactics. What was it that Pastor Niemoller foretold?

    I think this is going to end very badly for him but has at least shown what a full blown fascist state (were there seriously any doubts?) the UK has become.

  • Trowbridge H. Ford

    Assange, given what happened to hackers Gareth Williams and Gudrun Loftus, and to too curious astrophysicist Steve Rawlings has been living in fear since they were killed.

      • Mary Pau!

        He has not been arrested or indicted for publishing classified state infirmation as a journalist He has been arrested in the UK for jumping bail. He has been indicted by the US for ( they claim) hacking into US classified information and receiving US classified information.

        I am saying this because claiming he is a journalist publishing important news will not get him off the above charges. The authorities have clearly chosen the charges carefully.

  • What's going on?

    There’s a number of people that say that Assange hasn’t been holed up in the Embassy all these seven years and I know someone who has seen him outside the Embassy during the time he is supposed to have been in there.

    The word on the street is that he is a CIA asset running a disinformation campaign, what in spy jargon is known as limited hangout.

    Since the political-media nexus is lying about him not leaving the Embassy then this is a possibility. This morning’s little bit of street theatre only confirms the fishiness of the whole thing.

    https://ronaldthomaswest.com/2017/01/08/agent-assange/

    • Clark

      – “I know someone who has seen him outside the Embassy…”

      Well a load of us here know someone who has seen him inside the embassy over and over again. Do you know whose blog you’re on?

      – “what in spy jargon is known as limited hangout”

      Er, no, that’s conspiracy theorists’ jargon, like pretending JFK was killed by multiple shooters for the CIA and the Hollywood interval ice-cream mafia when we all know that it was really Adam Weishaupt himself transported through the Time Tunnel.

      – “…he is a CIA asset running a disinformation campaign”

      Tricky, seeing as WikiLeaks material has been proven right 100% so far.

      I hope the mods check your IP address 🙂

      • What's going on?

        “”I know someone who has seen him outside the Embassy…”

        Well a load of us here know someone who has seen him inside the embassy over and over again.”

        Of course I am not suggesting that he hasn’t ever been in the Embassy. It’s clear that he has spent time in there (the person I know some him being escorted to the Embassy by the police). This is highly fishy to anybody with a critical mind. However perhaps not as fishy as the fact that whenever I post here about this people won’t even consider the possibility that there might be more to this than meets the eye. If you can prove that Julian Assange hasn’t left the Ecuadorian Embassy since 19 June 2012, then do share.

        • Jo1

          Sorry, can you point to the proof you’ve provided yourself, other than, ” I know someone who says……”? It would be great if you could do that before demanding proof from others.

          • What's going on?

            A number of people have seen Assange outside of the Embassy since July 2012. I can’t prove that, but I find it curious that such a suggestion has been made, but also when raised here there is stiff opposition to it. I know my friend wouldn’t make this up. However, the main thing is that when I tell people about it off this forum, they are mildly interested and think there could be more than meets the eye going on. When I bring it up here there are strong denials. Don’t you find that fishy?

          • glenn_nl

            Oh come on. “A suggestion has been made”, indeed? By whom, apart from you?

            I like it when someone comes up with risible, unproved and contentious BS and then feigns surprise at the reaction, with a “Gosh me, I must have touched a nerve!”

            If you can’t do better than “some people say…” and “there is evidence that…” without producing a single source other than your own anonymous say-so, please save everyone the bother. On the other hand, if rumours are your stock in trade, and all you want to do is plant malicious falsehood, obviously you’re doing exactly what you want right now.

          • Jo1

            @What’s Going On

            Oh, first it was one person you know, now it’s a number of people who’ve seen JA out and about?

            No, I don’t think it’s fishy that you’re getting a bad reaction here.

            I think you’re getting the reaction you deserve.

    • Isa

      This is the latest nonsense being posted on social media to go viral . No doubt that’s the intention with which it’s posted . To turn people against him

      • What's going on?

        Is it? I have only seen the false dichotomy of pro Assange and pro State comments. There’s very little out there questioning the shitshow that is Brexit-Trump-Pentalega-EP and the wider ‘culture war’.

      • Two Candles

        No, you should question it, always question it. But don’t aggressively rule it out as obviously BS. This operation has now outed itself to all who are searching for the Truth.

  • Laguerre

    I suppose, as norton already says, that it’s obvious that May chose this day for her coup, in order to cover up for her humiliation in Brussels yesterday, and that things are entirely stuck on the Brexit front. Brussels wasn’t quite as humiliating as expected, ‘cos Tusk and Merkel were nicer than she expected. So again she didn’t judge quite right; she could have used the coup on another occasion.

      • Laguerre

        Oh really? May was not humiliated in Brussels? Most outside observers thought she was, and followed up with the news this morning that No-Deal contingency staff are being stood down at a cost of £1.5 bn. Such a vast waste of money for nothing – that isn’t embarrassing?

  • glenn_nl

    This is the most detail I’ve seen yet on the extradition process. Here’s the actual indictment:

    *
    https://int.nyt.com/data/documenthelper/754-assange-indictment/d093e7dc7982f7fe4c24/optimized/full.pdf#page=1

    Note the following:

    —-
    The single charge*, conspiracy to commit computer intrusion, was filed a year earlier, in March 2018, and stems from what prosecutors said was his agreement to break a password to a classified United States government computer. It carries a penalty of up to five years in prison and is significant in that it is not an espionage charge, a detail that will come as a relief to press freedom advocates. The United States government had considered until at least last year charging him with an espionage-related offense.
    —-

    https://www.nytimes.com/2019/04/11/world/europe/julian-assange-wikileaks-ecuador-embassy.html

    • Isa

      O think that only comes as a relief for the NYT and Guardian and Co. as it leaves them off-the-peg hook of facing similar charges .

    • Mary Pau!

      I read the US charges as hacking into US classified information (illegal) and receiving US classified information he was not authorized to receive (illegal.)

  • Rhys Jaggar

    [ MOD: Caught in spam-filter, timestamp updated ]

    Let us be clear: every US citizen carrying out spying at Fylingdales must be extradited to any country that demands their extradition.

    Any American who says that Americans are allowed to spy must be banned from leaving the USA and if they are currently abroad, they must be imprisoned in a camp equivalent to Gusntanamo. There can be no tolerance of any American spying, especially not from scholars resident at Oxbridge, all of whom must sign a document sanctioning their public execution if they engage in any behaviour for one single hour during their scholarship which can be demonstrated to be analagous to spying. So must all officers and Trustees of the Rhodes Trust, the Marshall Foundation and, as for Bill Gates, he will hand his entire fortune to non-US organisations if any if his scholars engage in anything untoward…..

    Anyone who thinks Americans are not absolutely humungous spies, using satellites, internet/mobile spying, phone hacking, credit card transaction monitoring etc etc is off with the fairies.

    People need to make Americans in the UK fully aware of what should happen to them if they are spying.

    The Govt will not, as they work for the US, not for us.

  • N_

    US indictments
    The US Department of Justice material which announced Julian Assange’s arrest in response to an extradition request before any British authority did, mentions innocence until proven guilty and a maximum five-year sentence. Has the US regime gone soft?

    The Ecuadorean authorities’ statement refers to an unpublished letter from the British authorities promising he won’t be extradited somewhere that he might get tortured or executed. Has the British regime gone anti-US all of a sudden?

    No and no.

    The plan is that once the US goons have him their hands, they will then announce one or more other charges that carry a maximum sentence of execution. They kept one charge quiet until it suited them. They can do the same again. His lawyers need to make exactly that point.

    The British authorities are accessories to this US plan. They are playing the game of arranging to sell a prisoner to the wolves and then exclaiming “If only we had known” when the wolves start savaging him.

    Meanwhile Donald Trump personally says he doesn’t know anything about Wikileaks. That’s the kind of thing that people who intend to murder people who have helped them tend to say.

    • N_

      Also could the lickspittles in the Ecuadorean government – who are now little more than bitpart players in this US-run show – please stop associating Julian Assange with poo.

  • John B Dick

    I’m coming to the meeting tomorrow.
    I hope you will elaborate on why you think that the UK goverment can and will recover from its Brexit debacle.

  • Laguerre

    I thought the Americans were pretty foolishly quick in saying they were going to extradite Assange. We all thought it, but it’s unsubtle to declare it from the start. Gives opportunity for accusations of vassalage against the Brits. A little wait and they might have avoided it. Not that the Yanks care about the feelings of the Brits – but in terms of Brexit, arguing that Britain is not a vassal of the US is quite important. This event has well shown that the US doesn’t care in the least about British interests.

  • lysias

    Apparently, the indictment, handed down in Dec. 2018, was for conduct allegedly committed in 2010. I thought the statute of limitations for most federal felonies under the U.S. Code was five years.

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