The Arrest of Manny Singh 158

On Saturday, I was an eye-witness to Manny Singh, organiser of the huge pro-Independence demonstration through Glasgow, co-operating efficiently and respectfully with the police in keeping order and protecting public safety, and in making sure the event was a joyous family occasion, successful and enjoyed by everyone. That included Manny liaising regularly with the most senior police officers in charge of the march. Before I made my speech, I asked him how it was all going and Manny volunteered unasked that the Police had been brilliant. From what I witnessed, the respect was mutual.

It is then extremely perturbing that, two days after the march, Police Scotland arrested Manny for organising an illegal procession, a charge that carries a maximum three months imprisonment. Plainly the orders for this radical change of attitude have come from very high. The defence of this draconian measure by SNP Glasgow councillor and ex-BBC intern Rhiannon Spear gives a clue as to where this is coming from.

Still more of a clue is the astonishing four page attack on Yes supporters that took up the the front and four pages of the Herald the day after the demonstration, in which the SNP’s NATO and monarchy enthusiast Angus Robertson and extreme Cold War Russophobe Stewart McDonald vented their spleen at Independence supporters who dare to take a more radical line. It was very thinly disguised as an attack on online abuse – of which in four full pages not one single example was given by them, let alone any qualitative or quantitative analysis.

McDonald in a lengthy rant in the article makes plain that what he really cannot stand is rather people do not accept his Establishment view, who criticise the BBC, and embrace “conspiracy theories.”

This is the essential background to the arrest of Manny. Now the SNP has a highly ambivalent attitude to Manny’s organisation, AUOB. AUOB is the main vehicle for public pressure for early Independence, while Nicola Sturgeon has embraced a strategy of kicking a new Independence referendum ever further into the long grass, while a national consultation is held, or Brexit plays out, or a citizens’ assembly discusses federal solutions, or whatever else excuse comes to hand.

In terms of electoral success for the SNP, Sturgeon’s strategy is undoubtedly brilliant. The SNP stands unchallenged in the polls at 46%, with the Tories in second place trailing woefully behind on 22%. The SNP is an incredibly successful political machine, and one which can keep the highheidyins in a very comfortable living indeed for life. To say that the SNP hierarchy are very comfortable on the UK gravy train would be a massive understatement. They are in no hurry at all to make a bid for Independence that may put their careers and livelihoods at risk.

The only problem is the wider Yes campaign and the wider SNP membership, who had been under the impression that they were putting their hands in their pockets and donating, and were out there in the cold delivering leaflets, because the SNP was the vehicle for Independence, not just to support Scotland’s very own highly paid ruling political class. These people continually applied inconvenient pressure, both online where their criticisms of the BBC and other establishment pillars were an embarrassment to the comfortably ensconced, and by continual street activity as through AUOB.

Nicola has had to make repeated SNP conference speeches and every time been forced to pretend she is interested in pursuing Independence at a future date. Surely, SNP HQ thinking runs, it would be better to take some of the pressure off her by hobbling support for the pesky online Independence supporters and those noisy marchers?

AUOB had applied to Glasgow City Council in September for permission to hold the recent march. As it was a repeat of the entirely peaceful and successful one last year, there was no reason to suppose any problem might arise. Then just ten days before the march, Glasgow City Council called the organisers to a meeting and demanded the start time be moved forward from 1.30pm to 11am because of “potential disruption” and “public order concerns”.

The proposed change was quite openly an attempt to reduce the numbers on the march for “ahem” reasons of public order. The organisers made plain that it was not possible at that late stage to make the change. The march had been widely advertised, coaches had been booked, and people were quite literally traveling from all over Scotland – which of course is what Glasgow City Council were precisely trying to prevent.

A committee of two SNP and one Green councillor, completely ignoring the entirely trouble free experience of the previous year, ruled that the march must kick off at 11am. Manny simply responded that in the interests of free speech, he would ignore the council’s ruling, and he did so, with great success.

The proof of the pudding is of course in the eating. The Council was simply wrong – there were in fact zero public order or safety problems involved in the march, and their pretended concern stands revealed for what it was, a pathetic attempt to hamper free speech and hobble the demonstration of massive public support for Independence. Even the SNP Deputy Leader Keith Brown turned up, though he said pretty well nothing about Independence while introducing the SNP candidates for the Euro elections.

In view that their pretended concerns proved – as everybody always knew – completely unfounded, the councillors involved stand exposed as despicable abusers of the power they were granted by the very people who were marching.

It appears from Ms Spear’s tweet that it is SNP run Glasgow Council – and I would bet after consultation with SNP HQ – who have now doubled down on their stupidity and arbitrary repression by ordering police to effect Manny’s arrest. Well, there are 100,000 of us at least who would happily stand beside him in the dock.

The man who has organised the most successful pro-Indy campaigning since 2014 has been arrested, just for doing precisely that. Yet so far there has been not a single gesture of support for Manny, public or private, from any of the SNP hierarchy. Why do you think that is?

The attempt to hobble and limit the AUOB march, and the extraordinary four page entirely unprovoked attack the next day on “cybernats”, form part of a coordinated effort by the SNP leadership to control the wider Yes movement and subdue the demand for early Independence. They failed with AUOB due to Manny’s courage and integrity – hence the vindictive order for his arrest.


I wrote this before seeing this excellent article from Paul Kavanagh, which makes precisely the same arguments. Paul commands much broader respect than I do across the Independence movement, peculiarly enough because it took him two years longer to spot, or at least speak out about, the problem with Sturgeon and Murrell than it took me. But if you read the comments on his article, you will see that there is massive agreement on this from numerous long term SNP members.


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158 thoughts on “The Arrest of Manny Singh

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  • Gordie

    ..The SNP deputy leader stood on the same stage as yourself on saturday.

  • Herbie

    Surely Craig is talking about the period since Manny’s arrest.

    You’re talking about the period before the arrest.

    Has there been any support from the SNP since the arrest?

  • BrianFujisan

    Exactly what I just said Herbie.. on the First page –

    May 8, 2019 at 00:56

    • Herbie

      And it needs repeating, Brian.

      Some of the more naive folk are still grasping at straws.

  • Herbie

    There’s a mass movement for Independence in Scotland.

    It needs to direct its attention to getting a few Real Independence candidates elected in vulnerable seats, and build from there.

    The SNP has simply become Imperialism’s local bureaucratic monkey machine.

    Always happens.

    Looks like they’re working with others to take out real Independence champions, who are now the enemy of the Party.

    The members have to take back the party machine or do the splitsies.

  • Hatuey

    Sturgeon has been a disaster for the independence movement. You might say she’s been okay for the SNP but with Brexit etc., how could she fail to attract new members and voters?
    Anyway, the reason they have quietly declared war on the independence movement is down to the fact that the strategy on independence has failed. And it has failed. We are farther from independence today than we were almost 3 years ago when England voted to Brexit.
    I’m half tempted to dig out another Animal Farm quote.

  • FranzB

    CM “The attempt to hobble and limit the AUOB march, and the extraordinary four page entirely unprovoked attack the next day on “cybernats”, form part of a coordinated effort by the SNP leadership to control the wider Yes movement and subdue the demand for early Independence.”

    I wonder if it is the SNP leadership who are at the root of this. I’m vaguely aware of the FBI’s Cointelpro project used to undermine organisations like the civil rights movement and the anti-vietnam war movements in the USA during the 1960’s. Tactics such as legal harassment and smears were used to divide and disillusion these movements.

    Similar tactics have been used in this country – e.g. an SDS spy was put into the Justice for Stephen Lawrence group to look for dirt that could be used against the campaign.

    In the weegingerdug piece, he writes “A lot of people who put their faith and trust in the SNP now feel betrayed, let down, and deeply disappointed with the party”. This is the sort of effect a CoIntelPro operation would want.

    Given that we’re talking about Scotland, the answer might be enlightenment. Perhaps those Glasgow councillors should be asked why they made the decision they did rather than assuming their motives. Did someone (the police maybe) suggest it might be a good idea if …. And whose idea exactly was it to arrest Manny Singh and why. Assumptions could be made, but clarity might be more useful. Who knows maybe those councillors have been played.

    • Patsy Millar

      I think that asking for a bit of clarity is an excellent idea. I wasn’t able to be on the march on Saturday but definitely want to add my support to Manny.

  • Antonym

    That’s how the (London)Brits kept hold of India for centuries: hook-winkle a number of regional grandees to support them(selves) for their mutual power/ money addiction. Glory, Truth and Justice out of the window as they don’t bring in any supply. Gilded junkies and con artists with fancy titles the lot.

  • SA

    A thin line which is now invisible, divides us and authoritarianism. We now treat dissidents as the state’s enemies. We have a priminster who has amply demonstrated that the thin facade of democracy is just that, the royal prerogative is how she rules and by being so disliked by her own party who yet cannot get rid of her. She has behaved in a most dictatorial manner in running the Brexit show alone without wider consultation. And yet the MSM do not analyse this for what it is, a major constitutional crisis showing the viciousness of the establishment. And having a split opposition is now so complete that even the SNP is dividing itself. Well done and long live imperialism and capitalism under this regime.

    • Piotr Berman

      I have somewhat different perspective on the arrest of Manny Singh. As a Polish citizen and resident of USA, I do not have particular opinion on Scottish independence. The issue is how to treat “a formal request from a Glasgow City Council committee based on recomendations from the emergency services.”

      It was freely admitted that the only reason that made 11:30 am preferable over 1:30 pm was that the attendance would be smaller. However, it is clear that the difficulties faced by emergency services would be abated only incrementally, e.g. routes for emergency vehicles had to be prepared to avoid the streets affected by the march, and a procedure for accessing those streets should be agreed with the organizers, uncooperative crowd of 1000 is harder to handle that cooperative 10,000. The big difference is politics, the “sense of momentum” is influenced by comparison of a particular gathering with the previous ones etc. Thinly obscured political motivation for harassing the march put Glasgow in the same league as Moscow and perhaps New York, i.e. slippery slope to authoritarianism.

      In all those cases the penalties are rather minor, so Glasgow, Moscow and New York have a way too go to reach the situation of Beijing, Cairo, Istanbul etc., but is it where Scotland want to go?

  • Hieroglyph

    It’s amazing how many female politicians become Stalin, soon as they get even a small amount of power. And yes, I am arguing they are often worse than the male politicians, in this regard. Too many of these clowns have been to indoctrination camp, aka university, and come out with some odd ideas indeed.

    In fairness, male politicians are the ones with the, ah, personal issues. The type the police are reluctant to investigate, for whatever reason

    It’s a dick move, calling the cops, for petty thems the rules reasons. Yet another reason why my initial judgement of Nicola – not impressed – is looking better by the day. This came from Head Office, no doubt. .

  • iain

    I agree, the status quo has to be feeling pretty goddam good if you’re an snp politician. Career and life secure and sorted, dreams realised. A rather large leap of faith is required to believe such people are determined to turn the world upside down, even if they (naturally) continue to say that is their aim.

    • Iain Stewart

      Greetings, fellow Iain. I think you have put your finger on a very important point, in describing the path to restoring Scottish independence as “turning the world upside down”. Assuming from the spelling of your name that you have at least as much insight into the national character as I do, I think you may agree that (we?) Scots are generally a cautious people, little given to acting under the impulse of emotion without at the very least turning a question on all sides before coming to a more or less rational and carefully considered decision.
      So when Scottish independence is presented as requiring a nothing less than a full scale revolution (as you suggest) then its support will only dwindle, except amongst a headstrong minority. It seems reasonable to think that the less foolhardy Scots do not want their fragile little world turned upside down, they would like it improved with minimum disruption and loss.

      • Hatuey

        “a cautious people, little given to acting under the impulse of emotion without at the very least turning a question on all sides before coming to a more or less rational and carefully considered decision.”

        That’s a good working definition of cowardly and thick, I’d say. I often haunt the Telegraph forums and if there’s one thing that annoys me more than anything it is pig ignorant Tories describing Scottish people as being “canny” — too “canny” to vote for independence, etc.

        There was nothing “canny” about the vote to stay in the Union in 2014. Those who engineered it with their lies and threats, they were the “canny” ones. Those who fell for the lies and threats were frightened idiots.

        • Iain Stewart

          So what exactly can be done to make a majority of your cowardly and thick compatriots as brave and clever as the Irish?

  • Petra

    So many omissions Craig and of course out and out untruths starting with stating that the submission to hold the march in Glasgow was made last September. It was in fact made in January this year and the request to change the starting time was put to Mr Singh, by GCC, Police Scotland, the Fire and Rescue Service, et al, on the 5th March, not 10 days before the march at all.

    • nevermind

      Then why did the council saw it fit to change the time at all full well knowing that this might cause problems to the l;ogistics which were set in place long before this baseless demand.
      Glasgow council; knew from the YEAR BEFORE THAT THE MARCH WAS WITHOUT INCIDENTS , it has had no reasons to change the time of its start, except to interfere and throw hoops into the path of its own SNP supporters.
      Why should a deputy leaders speech not contain the word independence referendum? when the whole march was directed to actioning one?
      Finally, what is the desire of Glasgow council when they sow division? it looks like there is another agenda of keeping the whole idea quiet until grass has grown over it.
      Shame on Glasgow council/ or those eggeing them on, for their lack of foresight and reactionary behaviour towards the organiser.

    • Waverley warrior

      So, police and fire services request a change of start time quoting public order and safety. GCC(SNP) turn this request down .March goes ahead and trouble breaks out.Can you imagine the headlines in this scenario?

  • name required

    The clever combatant imposes his will on the enemy, but does not allow the enemy’s will to be imposed on him.
    – Sun Tzu

    All men can see these tactics whereby I conquer, but what none can see is the strategy out of which victory is evolved. Sun Tzu

    • Dave

      There are very limited opportunities for radical change, such as independence, which is why the Leave vote was so spectacular, because when times are good people will stick with the status quo.

      Also it should be remembered the SNP isn’t and hasn’t for a long time been offering actual independence but incrementalism. This attract new members and bigger votes, but means the SNP itself becomes a de facto status quo party and clearly pro-establishment if their adoption of the NATO anti-Russian line is anything to go by.

      Brexit was the spectacular opportunity to promote Scottish independence, but the priority seems to be to save the Union.

    • giyane

      Name required

      I’m reminded by your quotes from Sun Tzu of what happened 100 years ago in Kurdistan.The Kurds had made political overtures to the British Empire to help overthrow the Ottomans.
      In WWI the Ottomans were overthrown and the Kurds asked for the Caliphste for themselves.
      The British used poison gas against the Kurds to take control of their oil resources and cut them into four parts under the control of their neighbours.

      The lesson we take from that, which sadly the Kurds have never learned is that if you ask your enemies for help, they will help but destroy you for their pains. The Scottish independence movement might flourish under the devolution but you will never gain independence by that route. In fact your ambitions will be destroyed.

      The bonkers idea of Political Islam that they can gain power from the USUKIS hegemonisers by helping to destroy the Muslim nations for the Zionists … resulted in the tyrant Assad retaining power in Syria and worse than tyrants taking over from the tyrant in Libya.

      A failed philosophy of Muslim against Muslim war taught by the British to the Muslim Brotherhood in 1918.

      The only way to make Scotland Independant is through big business and big accountancy firms.

  • Tarla

    I don’t think the likes of Sturgeon, and the cabal around her, fancy the leftward drift, and demands of SNP supporters and the wider support it has drawn. It appears that they are more comfortable inside the UK, from where they can blame Brexit, the Tories or the Labourites or Westminster etc. for Scotland’s misfortunes. That’s a relatively easy and comfortable position for them at the moment. But SNP electoral support will not hold up with the Scottish working class who will start voting more and more for a Corbyn led Labour party. Who will do everything in their power to deny the Scottish people a second referendum. The SNP leadership is resting on their laurels and their ‘the majority of Scots didn’t vote to leave the EU’ rings hollow if they are not going to be bold enough and demand a referendum now by attempting to legislate this through the Scottish parliament.

  • Sharp Ears

    I am very sorry about Manny’s arrest and imprisonment.

    As I keep saying, Britain is a fascist state and has become even more fascist under the control of the draconian PM ex Home Secretary, Theresa May. What would Jesus say Theresa?

    They will lock us all up in the end.

    • Sharp Ears

      Sorry. Correction. Not ‘imprisonment’ (I must have been thinking of Julian) but ‘possible conviction’.

    • Ian

      You can keep saying it as often as you like. It still won’t make it true.

    • Charles Bostock


      What is the word for something which is “even more fascist” than “fascist” ?

      Can one be even more alive than alive, even more dead than dead, even more Marxist than Marxist?

      • pete

        Re “even more fascist”
        Even with Fascism there are degrees of intensity, the Nazi’s were more intensely murderous and ruthless than the Italians.
        Understanding nuance is important.

        • Charles Bostock


          Shar$ie’s post demonstrated the perils of overblown and intemperate language.

          If you go around calling the UK “fascist” all the time, and then something happens which arouses you even more than usual, what word can you then use? You’ve run out of words, so you’re reduced to saying, ludicrously, “even more fascist”.

          This reminds me, actually, of how Edward Heath, when PM, described the members of his party to a friend ; “shits, absolute shits and fucking shits”.

          See what I mean?

          • giyane

            The Tory cabinet meet all the criteria of fascists:

            1/ They are a social elite that has mismanaged and brought the economy to ruin in 2007, then imposed heavy cuts and austerity on the masses or proles whom they despise while continuing to sell off anything that belongs to the people to , of all people, the same Russian oligarchs they demonize in their pompous gatherings.
            Then they pocket the cash from the family silver for themselves.
            Two betrayals there, UK society and foreigners.

            2/ while running these rackets as all fascists leaders do, they continue to foment international war by employing international terrorism in countries that surround their copartner in Fascism Israel. USUKIS hegemonisers have waged 30 years of continual war by training and brainwashing the CIA’s agents provocateurs who are like the SNP elite made comfortable in expensive houses in Eoropes capital cities from where they can direct the wars in Libya Syria Iraq Africa and now Sri Lanka with the help of the Zionist fascists here.

            All in all, well said Sharp Ears. As to Bostock , there’s nothing cheaper than a free ride in a Fascist Rolls Roy
            ce , with Bostock grimacing out of the back window with a free fascist cigar.

  • Davie

    Funny enough there was more reason to be concerned last year as rangers had a home game on the day of the March. Other than some buckfast warriors making abusive gestures inside their coaches there was not a bother. Neither ‘old firm’ team were playing in Glasgow on Saturday.

  • Gordon Walker

    Will I take your point about the March being a peaceful success I don’t agree with the Analysis. The March did cause a lot of disruption with buses reportedly being delayed by hours. The Glasgow Council no matter it’s political colour has always had a track record of fairness in allowing political organisations to march. The cooperation of March organisers is expected ,this clearly did not happen. In the days of instant communication the schedule changes could have been made. The idea of linking this to the SNP establishment and supposed problems there does nothing for the unity of the Independence movement. . I agree with your point that SNP is much less radical than it was, but again the boat is sailing towards independence,whilst the SNP in Westminster as a block appear happy to debate allowing another Brexit vote ,which would consolidate Scotland’s position on The EU. Mean while I always enjoy your block thanks for your work Craig.

  • Barbara McLaughlin

    Singh is a front man for this organisation who are nothing but a bunch of crooks. Neds and bullies. 2 years ago when the then labour run council demanded that all stewards were trained, myself and some colleagues offered to help do this. Neil Mackay was the chocolate William Wallace who had others even back then fronting for him as he was seen as an agitator (really?). After organising trainng every week, paying a trainer and offering free use of premises, AUOB collected donations and payments from people to cover the small costs and they never paid a bill. When confronted, Singh and Mackay were abusive and threatening. All we were trying to do was make the organisation more professional and credible.

    • nevermind

      Please explain, what is your experience with organising marches Barbara? how many marches of 150.000 have you organised and when?
      And do you really think that involving the police, which was happy with the running of the event, arresting Manny, is the diplomatic way to entice a change of these marches in future?

  • Sharp Ears

    ‘Craig Murray
    Follow @CraigMurrayOrg
    Craig Murray Retweeted Rhiannon Spear
    Glasgow SNP councillor and ex-BBC intern Rhiannon Spears shares a cosy joke with a hack from Murdoch’s Times, denigrating the turnout on the pro-Indy AUOB march, in the thread of replies to her tweet supporting the arrest of Manny Singh.’

    Read the thread.

      • Jo1

        The SNP Glasgow City Council seems hellbent on behaving like a bunch of idiots despite, it has to be said, pulling off the massive achievement of winning Glasgow from Labour. It’s next stunning achievement was to settle the big issue Labour had ignored for decades… the equal pay dispute involving thousands of female workers.

        Sadly its leader and her SNP group now appear to have gone a dangerous route indeed by introducing sectarianism into their tactics.

        Aitken’s colleagues defend her by claiming it was just a “joke” within their private Facebook page. Haven’t they learned yet there’s no “private” anything these days, especially in politics?

        If Aitken’s time leading Glasgow is to feature stupidity like this the SNP won’t hold power long.

  • Peter Lynn

    Nicola & the SNP need to endorse this march next year
    Or pay the political price. SNP member 12 years.
    im starting to doubt Nicolas sincerity. The march was peaceful & respectful as usual.

  • Charles Bostock


    “Manny simply responded that in the interests of free speech, he would ignore the council’s ruling”

    So Manny said that the Council telling him that the demo should start at 11am rather than at 1.30pm was against “free speech”?

    Is Manny all there?

  • Mist001

    Got this info regarding Manny Singh from someone who says they were a steward at the march:

    “He was rightfully arrested because he broke the very clear legislation on how a march must be kept within parameters.
    He knowingly went against this.
    I was a steward on the day, and I can say it was not the best organised.
    The SNP did not order his arrest.
    He contravened Section 65 of the Civic Government (Scotland) Act 1982, for which Police Scotland took action first thing Sunday morning at his home.”

    So, there’s the opinion of one of the stewards. Does this tally with other information?

    • Charles Bostock

      It is enough to read the very first line of Craig’s new post to realise that he is not talking about Manny Shinwell but about Manny Singh.

      • Sharp Ears

        Of course I knew he was nothing to do with Manny Shinwell. I wondered if he had acquired ‘Manny’ as a nickname because he has strong Socialist principles, so unlike your good self. When I looked him up I saw that his first name was Mandeep.

  • Charles Bostock

    It is one of the laws of politics – and an encouraging one for people like me – that every movement which aims to upset the established order for no good reason sooner or later begins in-fighting and then splits into warring factions.

    • Dave

      The problem arises because once a single issue party becomes popular, due to the failure of traditional parties to address the single issue, it attracts new members with their own ambitions and agendas who start responding to public complaints of, don’t you have any other policies?

      The power and weakness of a single policy is of course there is only one policy, but that serves a liberation movement which wants to keep left, right and centre together to achieve the single policy, but not a political party, which can’t represent everyone and so separate political parties are needed to represent to left, right and centre to avoid being unmanageable.

      If SNP loses momentum towards independence, the single issue will give way to infighting over left, right and centre policy as has befallen UKIP, hence why Farage’s reversion to the single issue and perhaps voting reform has launched the Brexit Party back in front with ease.

    • Ken Kenn

      You’ve just described the ERG beautifully.

      Well done you.

      Nige has stolen their thunder.

      Embrace the 23rd of May.

      Popcorn’s on order and maybe a Chinese meal in celebration of the Tories coming 5th.

      Tribal politics – you bet your life it is.

  • Rhys Jaggar

    Any way I can donate £10 by Paypal or debit card to support legal defence in this case, I will happily contribute.

    I am English/Welsh, happen to be moderately Unionist but entirely understand and respect the Nationalist position in Scotland, but am at heart a democrat and an implacable supporter of Free Speech, the right to demonstrate peacefully etc etc.

    This arrest is a shameful piece of cryptofascist cobblers (rather more robust language would be used offline after a few drams) and it would be entirely appropriate for Queen Nicola’s Royal Residence to be surrounded by the sort of belligerent Scots folks who used to invade London in their hundreds of thousands in the 1970s for the biennial football fixture at Wembley….

    A bit of verbal abuse never killed a politician but it might involve being forced to listen to the views of those who actually voted for you….

    Seeing as how they will not let you organise peaceful jolly marches without arresting the organiser….

  • Wikikettle

    I am sure the SNP has its fair share of members who will want to keep Trident, have the Queen as head of State and a joint army with England. They already want to stay in Europe, in which case Scotland would have the Euro and not be in control of its money or interest rates.These are not arguments on my part to stay in the Union. I would sail to Scotland tomorrow if such a sovereign status was won. Tomorrow is 9th May, Victory Day in Russia. A country that faced 80% of all German divisions and managed at terrible suffering to defeat the German Axis onslaught. Imagine one day little Palestinian boys and girls who have read about the great air battles Britain and the sieges of Stalingrad, Moscow and Leningrad, grow up to be proud participants in their own annual liberation parade. Amen.

    • FranzB

      re “They already want to stay in Europe, in which case Scotland would have the Euro and not be in control of its money or interest rates.”

      It’s not true that an independent Scotland would have to adopt the Euro if it becomes a member of the EU. Wings over scotland has covered this recently:-

      Re “have the Queen as head of State”. Why not reinstate the Stuart monarchy as a ceremonial monarchy and as most modern states have an elected head of state (by some sort of electoral college rather than directly).

    • Jo1

      If the dividing and conquering continues we’re not going to need even one Independence supporting Party!

  • name required

    giyane (sorry for delayed reply)

    I was actually wanted to post the quote from Sun Tzu about keeping your generals and troops occupied otherwise they would find something to do, you. (i.e stop the bloody infighting, it suits the opposition)

    but my internet skills are weak.

    but to be fair i could just post the whole of ‘art of war’ as many on here and in the wider world would benefit from much it contains.

    fighting and politics are not a new thing that has only come about recently and the facts of any conflict or struggle remain simplified and condensed – one of the sides has more power, more strength, more troops, better weapons perhaps even a compliant media but that does not account for much unless you choose to fight them where they are strong.

    more quotes
    “All warfare is based on deception.
    Appear weak when you are strong, and strong when you are weak.
    The supreme art of war is to subdue the enemy without fighting.
    To know your Enemy, you must become your Enemy.
    Keep your friends close, and your enemies closer.

    Engage people with what they expect; it is what they are able to discern and confirms their projections. It settles them into predictable patterns of response, occupying their minds while you wait for the extraordinary moment — that which they cannot anticipate.

    1 He will win who knows when to fight and when not to fight.
    2 He will win who knows how to handle both superior and inferior forces.
    3 He will win whose army is animated by the same spirit throughout all its ranks.
    4 He will win who, prepared himself, waits to take the enemy unprepared.
    5 He will win who has military capacity and is not interfered with by the sovereign.

    Be extremely subtle, even to the point of formlessness. Be extremely mysterious, even to the point of soundlessness. Thereby you can be the director of the opponent’s fate.”

    and one last quote that i think is key
    “The greatest victory is that which requires no battle.”

    Not being a strategist or tactician myself i am often given to wonder on the dark art of real politic, which is entirely NOT the reported politic that we get to see (comment on and fight over).

    therefore i am not overly confident that the SNP’s strategy for independence is the right one or not.
    but it is clear that they are the only party that can have any hope of bringing it about in the short to medium term. This of course leaves a dirty taste in my mouth as i am forced to support their aims until the goal is reached. what i can say is that if i know this then they surely must also know this too.

    and also giyane
    i did not know the detail of what you posted (thank you) about the Kurds but i do know enough of english (disguised as British) history to accept that and to be wary of everything they (the english) try and trap you into.

    for they have most certainly read the ‘art of war’, and many many more (available at all good fee paying schools).

    I am not normally given to posting on the internet, mainly for reason of personal sanity and inner calm, far to many posts (in general and even on here) are set to confuse, enrage, distract, misdirect, unsettle and of course silence.

    I have only one vote and i will use it ‘strategically’ as i see fit.

  • name required

    Oh and another thing.

    i trust many will see themselves in the quotes above.

  • Tony

    There are some troubling people in the SNP and we must not forget that all 6 SNP MPs at the time voted to attack Libya. What an absolute disaster that has been.

    Recently, the House of Commons Select Committee on Defence solely blamed Russia for the impending collapse of the INF treaty. One of its members is SNP MP Martin Docherty-Hughes.

    But why would Russia violate the INF treaty by deploying a land-based missile with greater than the permitted range when they could simply deploy it at sea where no such restrictions exist? It does not make sense and is, therefore, almost certainly untrue.

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