A Little Light Into The Murky World of the Guardian 141


Nathan Robinson lost his employment as a Guardian columnist on US politics for these tweets:

They were, according to the editor of Guardian US John Mulholland, “clearly antisemitic”. Criticising US military aid to Israel, according to Mulholland, was tantamount to arguing that Israel controls the United States.

This kind of circular reasoning, by which all criticism of Israel is anti-semitic so any criticism of military support to Israel is anti-semitic, is evidently invalid. But this tells you a great deal about how the Guardian now operates, in addition to it being the main media conduit for the UK security services. But actually, the part of Mr Robinson’s narrative I found most enlightening about his employment by the Guardian was:

I only had a column spiked for content reasons once, as far as I can remember, which occurred when I criticized Joe Biden over Hunter Biden’s corrupt business ties.

That tells you everything about the massive hypocrisy of the so-called “liberal” media, which actually is anything but liberal. The fact that the Biden administration has decided to pursue the prosecution of Julian Assange confirms that the people are getting the same slops, in a different bucket.

The lack of media interest in the fact that Hunter Biden was receiving $720,000 a year, plus a one off $850,000, from a Ukrainian company he never visited nor did any identifiable work for, was not just laziness. They were actually spiking the stories. The BBC reported Trump’s efforts to get information on it from the government of Ukraine as an abuse of position by Trump (arguably correct), but managed to report the story without ever revealing the facts about Hunter Biden. It was not just the mainstream media – when I tried to blog on the subject, both Twitter and Facebook subjected my posts to whole new levels of suppression.

Now the Bidens are in power, the Establishment can return to methods of corruption which are well-honed, and which are kept hidden by a web of comfortable elite relationships, after the much ruder interlude from Trump. We should be grateful for Mr Robinson for a tiny glimpse into the propaganda machine that keeps the people ignorant and manufactures their consent.

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141 thoughts on “A Little Light Into The Murky World of the Guardian

1 2
  • OAH

    I know from personal experiene that the US-Israeli relationship has been as described within the US Government for at least the last forty years.

    • Giyane

      OAH

      Jeremy Bowen BBC Middle East correspondent did a little soundbite last night about Egypt and the Arab Spring on radio 4. In the digital age of universal spying the Arab Spring was MI6’s upgrade for the now defunct ME dictators who are redundant now that information can be obtained, and opponents zapped by drone, remotely.

      Mr Bowen said that Islam would always revert to repression, as in the CIA coup against Muslim Brotherhood President Mursi, even though they knew repression didn’t work.

      What he didn’t say was that Israel, the US, the UK, and the entire rest of the world do think that repression of the Palestinians will work. The criminal British State has many bowels and many backsides, only one of which is The Guardian, and only one of which is The BBC

      • Tom Welsh

        I think “The Guardian” might better be described as a sample of what emerges from the British government’s bowels.

        I really cannot imagine why anyone would read it, pay any attention to it, or work for it. No good can come of association with such a thing.

  • SBC

    I’m sure many won’t be too surprised at this story: have we become desentised?

    And whilst it’s reassuring that the mainstream print media is in terminal decline – and the younger generation simply don’t watch TV news – it does reinforce the fact that the likes of Twitter, FB, Google, etc. have quickly replaced them as a malignant influence on the population.

    Will there be a future tipping point, where reasonable people need to disconnect from the Internet permanently for their own security…?

    • Natasha

      “people need to disconnect” from all forms of ‘propaganda’ and ‘social media’ for their own mental health. As a former ‘user’ I know Facebook has most of the same properties that addictive drugs have.

    • Steve Hayes

      Fortunately, the Internet is not Facebook and the rest. It’s a network that allows communication in many different ways. Facebook and Twitter are dominant because so many people use them and if you want to reach those people you use them too. But they could soon be replaced just as Facebook replaced MySpace if they drive too many of their users away. As Twitter already did to the likes of Parler, though those aren’t people I’d agree with. The big question is whether the West will try to suppress Thought Crime with new laws and its version of the Great Firewall of China and how they will justify it.

    • Tom Welsh

      Please be careful to distinguish between the Internet, the Web, and social media. The Web, and the underlying Internet, give us almost a guarantee of communication if we do it the right way.

      Social media, in contrast, are analogous to the corporate-owned shopping malls and other supposedly communal areas that have sprung up everywhere like poisonous weeds. As the exploiters pump more and more wealth out of the economy, one of the effects that becomes unmistakable is that local authorities run out of money. They are urged to sell off public property and farm out social services to priate firms, which then take even more of the public’s money.

      In a corporate mall you find yourself subject, not only to the law of the land, but also to whatever arbitrary regulations and restrictions the owner wishes to impose. The best answer is simply to avoid such places and shop elsewhere.

  • Shatnersrug

    I think biden himself was quite revealing when he announced “if Israel didn’t exist then we’d have to invent it to protect our interests in the Middle East”

    Erm… Joe? You did invent it buddy, precisely to do what it does.

    • CasualObserver

      Israel is the ‘West’s’ last foothold in an area that supplies still, a great deal of the fossil magic that makes things happen. It serves to offer a bridgehead in the area in the unlikely event that the Arab groups ever get past clan, tribe, and religious affiliation, and thereby threaten energy supplies.

      It would be worth remembering that Israel can really only trace its current privileged position to the fall of the Peacock Throne in Iran. When the Shah was Big Man in the Gulf, Israel was very much a second fiddle in terms of western interest, and such American support as it did get was to do with Cold War tensions, and the placation of lobby groups at home who had yet to achieve the influence we see today.

      Its even the case that the UK back then valued its Arab friendships to the extent that it refused to sell Chieftain Tanks to Israel for fear of losing influence in the region. Its difficult to imagine such a thing happening today when any criticism of Israel renders one liable to being accused of being the reincarnation of every historic persecutor of Jewry that has ever existed.

      Given that Israel does represent a vital interest to the West, it should be viewed as a distraction. The real action, and as touched upon by CM, is in the Ukraine. Its where 99% of all Jews in the USA will trace their ancestry to, and its friction with Russia offers a superb raison d’etre for the USA to keep its military industrial complex at a level that ensures maybe over 10% of its GDP. Combined with the fact that the Ukraine is a seeming cesspool of corruption that US politicians are anxious to be part of, and we can be assured that the Ukraine will be a major focus of US foreign policy.

      • Isabelle

        How does Israel represent a vital interest to the West? If it’s about oil, will the West abandon Israel when the oil runs out or is surpassed by other technologies?
        Could anyone explain the U.S. support for Israel?

  • Penguin

    The grainyard which campaigns against Scotland. Which employs the english propagandist S Carrell to lie and smear and generally act as an agent of the english state . That grainyard which also thinks you should be sacked for stating Biological facts. Or for not demonising Trump when he’s innocent. “Peacefully and Patriotically” Has any dictator so roused a mob to violence?
    The grainyard supported the invasion of Iraq and still loves blair and campbell.

    They also give owen jones money for being wrong about everything.
    Long since time that they and their Cayman Island tax avoidance scheme were shut down

    • glenn_uk

      Trump innocent? Do me a favour. He was the most corrupt and incompetent President without doubt in our lifetimes, very possibly ever. It’s a good thing he was so thoroughly incompetent, though, because otherwise his fascistic leanings would have caused vastly greater harm.

      The last joker who insisted on the wonderfulness and genius of Trump called himself “Loony”. At least his moniker was accurate, even if nothing else about him was. Are you officially taking up his position?

      • giyane

        glenn_uk

        Anything inside a blue glass bottle will appear to be blue, yes?. So it would be well to consider the colour of the container which is US politics , before declaring the colour of its contents.

        • Rob

          Thanks for the link, a level headed assessment of Trump. The rise of a plutocratic rentier class is certainly eroding democratic politics.
          So far as Mr Mulholland is concerned, he does more harm than good. His actions seem to encourage antisemitic conspiracy theories.

        • bevin

          He is wrong about Huey Long, though. And the Long ‘dynasty’ arose largely because Huey was assassinated and thus martyred.
          Generally though the Lind (is he related?) story is right about Trump – calling him a fascist is untenable and fascistic.

      • Josh R

        It’s a good job he was so thoroughly “vile” otherwise all those pseudo liberals would never have enjoyed getting their knickers in such a twist and doing the establishment’s job for them; jerking the RussiaGate fantasy for 4 years whilst sweeping Killary & the DNC’s kibosh of Sanders and the electorate’s democratic aspirations under the proverbial; similarly casting nary a glance at the illegal targetting of an elected president by the intelligence services and his political/establishment opponents; cheerleading the outright censorship by MSM & MSTech of speech, thought & dissent; and further scraping the barrel of social demagogery in classic divide & rule of the wee folk.
        Never met the fella and any snippets, buzzwords and memes I picked up 3rd hand didn’t make me think he was anything other than another c#nt in a long, unbroken line of similar political snakes.
        But I don’t see him as anything other than tribalism porn for the happily distracted.
        The fact that so many folk are happily swallowing a rescripted warmongering, safely “establishment” Biden as some kind of ‘improvement’ just beggars belief.
        If you think “fascistic leanings” have been somehow averted, I’d perhaps suggest you’re being as “useful” as Trump was.

        • Simon

          Well said Josh. Whatever trump was, a charge of treason and insurrection is absurd, and corrupt, and stands to come back and bite these hypocrites on their arses 10x as hard.

          • M.J.

            CNN is broadcasting Trump’s impeachment trial, and the Impeachment managers are making a powerful case for convicting him.

          • Steve Hayes

            I fear we will come to look back on the Trump administration more fondly once normal service resumes. But encouraging a mob to march on the Capitol and “fight to keep the country” is pretty compelling evidence. He will claim to be too stupid to have foreseen what would happen. Maybe he is that stupid but it’s too late to remove him from office for it. I just wish we didn’t let other politicians get away with the same defence while they still are in power.

      • Susan

        I’m surprised to still see emotional outbursts of TDS on Craig’s website. I thought we had moved on from that. If we have learned anything over these past few months, surely it is that POTUS is a powerless puppet of the deep state. If they forget this role, they are swiftly despatched. POTUS is the face of the atrocities of the deep state, but they are not responsible for thinking them up. The purpose for these puppet figures is to provide a target for voter anger. TDS is as ‘manufactured’ as all the other lies and distortions we are told. What better way to set the peasants fighting against each other.

        A reader on another site had this insightful analysis of TDS:

        “It is still a mystery to me how the global MSM turned DJT into a symbol of hate that they could unite against in outpourings of emotion normally reserved for people you actually know – rather than just see on TV. Trump derangement syndrome was, for me, the point at which I knew that the deep state had full control over the base emotions of the people as well as their thoughts: I still do not have enough information to work out how they currently achieve this control as it is definitely ongoing amongst a large majority of the population.”

        https://off-guardian.org/2021/02/10/trumps-show-trial-is-just-the-next-step-in-a-very-american-coup/#comment-320302

      • Squeeth

        Trump was continuity not change; that said he didn’t create the hecatombs of corpses of Barry the bloody bastard Obana, bUShA (I & II) Clinton (both) and Ronnie RayGun. Perhaps you weren’t counting?

      • CasualObserver

        Well, he certainly threatened to upset the Greece to Rome balance that the UK has worked hard to sustain. So from that aspect its easy to see why liberal thought in the UK has been anxious to damn him.

        Maybe its lucky that Biden has professed to being a one term act, given that Americans whose families left Ireland many generations ago, tend to identify as being more Irish today than anybody you could meet in 32 counties. With Irish history apparently burning bright in Biden’s mind, I wonder if the UK is not in danger of going from the Trump frying pan, into the Biden fire. 😀

  • Goose

    If he’d have included Israel in the round, with or without specifically naming; or stated something similar about any one of double-digit list of countries the US supports with military aid (economic and military assistance), countries as diverse as Jordan and Ukraine, and including the brutally repressive el-Sisi regime in Egypt, then I’d wager his boss, John Mulholland, wouldn’t have raised so much as an eyebrow.
    The current hypervigilance around the policing antisemitism and alleged antisemitism is producing many false positives as it’s a snap judgement on intent. But I guess that’s the whole idea, as it silences those with a voice to criticise…why risk your career.

  • Andrew Ingram

    Quite abruptly, on the 19th of September 2014, I went from being a daily buyer to an online only reader.
    I treat myself to a bottle of a goodish single malt every month on the money not spent.

  • giyane

    Not more ‘ circular reasoning ‘ ?! Circular logic that creates a market for torture which legitimises it, bypassing the fact that it is criminal. Circular logic that says that if a rape has been reported , nobody is allowed to consider the facts. Circular logic that does people’s heads in by spying on them, causing them to behave badly. Circular logic that demonises the other and blames the demonised for fighting back.

    With all due respect, the only way to get hired by The Guardian , a front for British Intelligence, is to be able to demonstrate the ability to think in circular logic. No other qualification is required. Therefore one should regard the sacking/ not sacking event of Mr Robinson as generated by circular logic, for the benefit and thus totally irrelevant. In other words hot air, like the accusations against Alex Salmond and Craig Murray.

    Before climbing on board this magic roundabout, dizzying oneself with the sight of realities swirling past one’s eyes, while the inner ear loses track of one’s balance, my advice would be to focus on the humdrum facts that Alex Salmond never raped anyone in his life, and Craig Murray has no contempt whatsoever for the institutions of Justice. As to Nathan K Robinson, one has to ask why any columnist would deliberately utter these remarks , unless for self-publicity or corporate political double think.

  • Josh R

    Murky indeed.
    Consigned their bookmark to the recycle bin donkey’s years ago, but I did hear of some dodgy accounting gymnastics a few years back whereby they were now being funded by a tax exempt foundation supported by such benevolent philanthroCapitalists as Gates.
    I love the foundation’s self aggrandising PR:

    “The Guardian Foundation · Supporting independent media under threat”.

    Sadly, I feel the rag became redundant a long time ago, even before they stuck the knife into Assange.
    The fact that they’ve been adopted by the likes of that speccy twat Billie G* makes me wonder why anyone would expect anything other than the latest shambles outlined above.

    * https://www.globalresearch.ca/selected-articles-bill-gates-and-neo-feudalism-a-closer-look-at-farmer-bill/5736523

  • Piotr+Berman

    About hypocrisy: undeniably, it is a valuable resource in politics, but what is its nature? Is it like a mineral that can be exhausted by excessive mining? Or like wood? Renewable, but excessive exploitation can deplete what can be extracted for a decade or two.

    But perhaps it is like training: effects improve over time. The public expects leaders and the media to improve the reality, provide clarity and simple solutions. Like: we cannot do X because it would make Putin happy. Putin, bless his soul, has a name that is easy to remember and pronounce, compare with his Prime Minister Mishustin. And Chinese leaders are confusing: He or She or You, “we cannot do because She would be happy” may imply that we cannot provide emotional comfort to Scottish FM.

    And in more individual cases, the audience or the public may approve even blatant double standard if they feel on the winning side of skewed arguments.

    • Giyane

      Piotr+Berman

      ” winning side of skewed arguments “

      BBC news today , the NHS is to be released from inefficiencies and delays caused by competitive tendering. US vultures and Tory monster capitalists will no longer have to provide the fig leaf of audited accounts and scrutinised work plans when working for the NHS. Just romping in the pound green sea, under the pound green palm trees, unashamedly naked as Adam and Eve in the Gordonian eternal summer holiday of Global “”” Order “””. When you take your green specs off, the world looks red.

      Nick Robinson asked the shadow Health spokesman ” Are you saying that the Labour Party under the obligatory Sir Keir Starmet doesn’t approve of privatisation in the NHS? ”

      To which the reply was : gah goo gee ger. Switch off prat . Time for a summary of the Nooz.

    • James Dickins

      “Jones was perhaps the most important single player in the Labour antisemitism psyop.”

      ___________________________________________________________

      Interesting. Can you provide evidence?

  • Jon Cofy

    “The fact that the Biden administration has decided to pursue the prosecution of Julian Assange”

    Assange was discharged on 4 January 2021.
    The MS media reported that the USA had 14 days to file grounds of appeal.
    Did the USA file their grounds of appeal by 28 January 2021?
    Apparently not.
    If the USA had 28 days to file grounds of appeal then the filing was meant to be before 2 February.
    No filing has been reported.
    In my case I had 42 days (6 weeks) to file a whole bunch of documents including a written case that included grounds of appeal. If USA has 42 days then 42+4=46-31=15
    Will USA file by February 15?
    There is some sloppy reporting (with no date) that this Friday is the dead line.
    12+31=43-4=39 days to file. Odd number!!
    What on earth is going on with Australia’s last hero?

  • intp1

    A Question is: What parallel influences are operating in the UK?

    We had the Channel 4 dispatches program on this some years ago but Channel 4 is now been entirely emasculated.

    Fox/Verity, Priti Patel prostituting herself with Netanyahoo and amazingly getting sacked (but not for long 🙂 ). It is still going on and I bet, accelerating.

  • gyges

    A bit late with this one Craig. I suppose it’s safe for you to post it now it can’t change anything. Not even amongst the ignorant and propagandised amongst your readership.

  • Rhys Jaggar

    It’s the old story: those who are paid by the Establishment cannot criticise it. The Guardian is now more intolerant, more illiberal and arguably more ‘right wing’ and ‘reactionary’ than the rest of the UK media. I wouldn’t read it if you paid me $100,000 a year. It is owned by neoliberals, it has evolved as far from ‘British left wing’ thought as Russia has from the Communist USSR. It is arguably replacing the Daily Telegraph as ‘the spooks’ paper’.

    There is an enormous media business opportunity on the sane left in the UK right now. Not woke, not lapdog, not tied by umbilical cord to authoritarian Union Leaders. No, thinking, independent, tolerant, believing in enlightened teamwork by the less well-off for mutual benefit and long-term prosperity (you know, things like restoring the value of cooperative financial organisations).

    You don’t have to be a Communist, you don’t have to believe in the State owning everything. You probably don’t believe that the only reason for poverty is laziness or moral weakness. You don’t believe in climate chaos without evidence. You don’t believe in the EU uncritically. You don’t believe that the UK has to be tied to NATO, the US, without justification. You can see reasons in building healthy diplomatic relations with Russia, China, India, the Philippines, Indonesia, Japan and plenty besides.

    What you probably do believe is that it is not acceptable collateral damage for 20 million to live in poverty just so 10,000 can be worth £100m or more rather than £20m or more. You probably don’t believe that transnational corporation behemoths are the saviours of the people. You certainly won’t believe in master race eugenics and you certainly won’t believe in the supremacy of the white man.

    That does still leave an enormous space for thinking, sane, mature, left wing radicals to craft out an offering that actually appeals to the interests of the majority of normal people.

    It really is high time that an independent media re-emerged in the UK.

    An independent sanity to left-wing thinking is more than due a revival.

  • fonso

    Nathan Robinson is still young but he is one of the most incisive and judicious commentators around. Just on a different level to the Behrs, Toynbees, Hydes, etc. Not just intellectually but also in terms of basic integrity. He was completely out of place writing there.

    PS I believe the only story of Glenn Greenwald’s ever pulled by the Intercept also related the media’s suppression of Biden corruption. Both those writers are far more valuable working outside the confines of establishment liberal media. Likewise the honourable C Murray esq.

  • amanfromMars

    The mainstream media is as a dead man walking, with an enemy of anonymous millions intent on delivering it crushing blows of SWIFT and bitter sweet rough common justice because of its exclusive egregious self-serving partisan shenanigans.

    And the following is what more than just haunts them, for some would tell you, it certainly guarantees either their rapid demise and descent into bankruptcy and forced liquidation of assets or quick fundamental change of editorial direction, for such is the natural progression of the future.

    amanfromMars 1 Thu 11 Feb 09:06 [2102110906] ……… airs an unfolding reality on https://forums.theregister.com/forum/1/2021/02/10/library_dependencies_attack/

    Re: Most devs have local admin rights or their tools don’t work

    Bad people rely on good people being lazy and ignorant and make a lot of money from that. …. Lorribot

    If that be true, Lorribot, I wouldn’t like to be relying on good people remaining forever lazy and ignorant/apathetic and undereducated, whenever nowadays it is so easy to be kept busy and to learn so much more than was ever imagined possible before, about virtually anything and everything…. with the secrets and tricks that deliver something from nothing exposed for exploitation and employment/edutainment and enjoyment.

    And you have World Wide Webs to thank for that, both deep and dark, heavenly and enlightened.

    And some systems are driving themselves bonkers and to rapid catastrophic destruction doing what little they only can do, failing to stop the information and intelligence being more generally widely known and universally available.

  • Andrew F

    This bizarre idea that Biden was ever going to do anything except go after Assange with far more vengeance than Trump’s extradition request is ludicrous. Biden was in the administration that started the persecution of Assange. He hates Assange passionately as do all Democrats.

    Still no attempt to apply to the High Court for bail for Julian, as he has an automatic right to do?

    Still not getting any coherent or even vaguely sensible explanation for why this hasn’t happened – and never happens even though he is able to challenge bail refusal every 28 days…..

    Craig?

  • Republicofscotland

    Biden as POTUS, new face (well not really a new face) same shit, when will Americans realise that the status quo remains virtually the same no matter who the president is.

    As for the oppressive military apartheid regime that is Israel, I’ve read that they’re not giving any Palestinians a Covid vaccine injection, that surely must be the ultimate slap in the face.

  • M.J.

    From Robinson’s column, it appears that he was dropped by the Guardian as a columnist by an editor, John Mulholland even after an apology he made (reluctantly, wishing to keep his job) for his tweet had been accepted by Mulholland. Which would make sense if Mulholland had been leaned on, something possibly meriting investigation.

  • DoctorK

    Chinese New Year and getting pleasantly pissed out here tonight, reminiscing about the Guardian. It was 1969 when as a young student apprentice at BP I was introduced to it by a fellow in digs in Sunbury, name of Hobkinson, a solid northern surname, a native of Manchester I believe.
    Many pleasant memories of those days, the guardian a constant companion and whose worldview I broadly concurred with. I recall with fond memory columnists such as Jack Trevor Story and Barry Norman. I remember to this day still with stifled laughter a piece he wrote about a Swede, his speciality was riding a motorcycle through flaming hoops, whose name was Bernt Persson.
    Well one century turned into another and something evidently changed. After the Assange affair clearly it was taken over by the security services, and vicious ad hominem attacks on Corbyn ended what had become a sporadic purchase. Under Freedland it has become an Israeli asset and as for those harpies Hyde and another one, Suzanne something, they turn my stomach.
    I turn to the Indy online some days but it is a piss poor news source and is totally sold on the anti-China project.
    So RT and Craig are basically my only news sources about the U.K. though while in truth I don’t really give a damn about it, I do hope that the Scottish independence movement wins through ASAP. All the best Craig.

  • Tim Glover

    Thank you Craig.

    by “Israel” we mean the current government of Israel. To identify all Jews with that government is to claim that all Jews are corrupt, criminal, racist and genocidal. This is about the most dangerously antisemitic claim it is possible to make. Every Jew I have ever known personally, without exception has been a remarkable and admirable human being. It is my observation that antisemitism is on the rise, and I think in large part that is because of the cynical abuse of claims of antisemitism for political reasons. It is time to fight back!

    • Mighty Drunken

      Agree.
      By arguing any criticism of Israel or indeed any Jew is antisemitic will normalise antisemitism. A few years ago, being labelled antisemitic outside the far right, meant something. With the term being thrown around all the time, often for little or no reason, teaches everyone that the phrase has no meaning any more.
      This could badly backfire in the future. They are playing a silly, dangerous game.

      • Goose

        There’s a risk in this very deliberate strategy though, in that, this constant ‘crying wolf’ is exhausting sympathy.

        If real antisemitism ever re-emerges it may be met with a shrug because of these constant false accusations.

      • Twirlip

        Mighty Drunken: thank you for that pithy and precise summary of what one would think would be screamingly obvious to any sane and decent person. Apparently it isn’t at all obvious to most people, so it needs saying; and I don’t think I’ve ever seen it said better.

      • Pigeon English

        Mighty Drunken & Goose
        Thank you for putting such a complex thoughts so concisely and eloquently.
        It would have taken me hours of trepidation trying to make that point.

    • amanfromMars

      Tim, re: your post timestamped February 11, 2021 at 11:52, what is the excuse/reason for all of those exceptionally remarkable and admirable human beings not fighting back for themselves with the enthusiastic support of a great many others following their lead? Are they waiting meekly on others doing such necessary things for them?

      That is far too much like shades of another past time we are consistently reminded of to never forget, whether one likes to admit it or not, to be any different.

      • Tim Glover

        I do not distinguish people on the basis of their grandparents; in my opinion everyone should oppose the identification of Jews with Israel, whatever their parentage.

        • amanfromMars

          I was referring to your identification of the peoples of Israel accepting as normal the current corrupt, criminal, racist and genocidal government of Israel and the lack of any effective fight back against it in the homeland from the natives and the indifference of successful expats enjoying the life and luxuries of an existence abroad.

          • Dawg

            “I was referring to your identification of the peoples of Israel accepting as normal the current corrupt, criminal, racist and genocidal government of Israel … “

            amanfromMars, I think you’ve picked up Tim’s point the wrong way. That isn’t what Tim was suggesting. He wrote:

            “To identify all Jews with that government is to claim that all Jews are corrupt, criminal, racist and genocidal. This is about the most dangerously antisemitic claim it is possible to make.”

            Unless I need to wipe my reading glasses, his point would seem to be that any sweeping allegation that criticism of ‘Israel’ amounts to a slander against Jews (as used to justify the dismissal of Nathan Robinson; see also the IHRA definition adopted by the Labour Party) itself implies the dangerous premise that Jews can be held responsible for the actions of the Israeli government (including its many misdeeds). The upshot is that people can’t accuse critics of Israel of being anti-semitic without assuming an implicitly anti-semitic view themselves. Tim didn’t make the identification himself, or urge anyone else to: on the contrary, he seems to be arguing that nobody should.

          • amanfromMars

            Sincere Apologies, Tim Glover, for the manifestly incorrect conclusion drawn from my misinterpretation of your post above [your post timestamped February 11, 2021 at 11:52/my incorrect reply timestamped February 11, 2021 at 14:20]

            And thank you, Dawg, for so clearly pointing out where it all went so clearly wrong for me.

    • nevermind

      you just made this claim by raising it here Tim, How about Zionism is dangerous to the world, afaik nobody here conflates all Jews with the zionist outrage of present and past administrations governing Palestine.

      • Dawg

        “afaik nobody here conflates all Jews with the zionist outrage of present and past administrations governing Palestine.”

        Well, yes. But who was suggesting that people here did that? Not Tim.

        How do you arrive at the interpretation that Tim is accusing people here of equating Zionism with all Jews? It seems to me that he’s clearly laying that charge against the people who make false accusations of anti-semitism, so unless there are people here who make those false allegations, then he’s not accusing people here of making that mistake. Nor is he accusing all jews of doing so.

  • Goose

    If intel services are dabbling in journalism, whether at the BBC, guardian or anywhere else, through things like the integrity initiative, and using that influence to get problematic journos fired and subservient ones promoted, goes without saying that’s incredibly dangerous, as who has the freedom to report anything?

    A future truth commission, with tens of senior officials testifying under oath, may be the only way to resolve this undue influence that risks undermining any claim to freedom.

    • Goose

      *Normally it’s only Public inquiries with subpoena powers and ability to take evidence under oath.

      But that would only be necessary if a truth commission can’t get to the truth because of people closing ranks.

      The Tories promised a public inquiry into complicity in torture. Then suddenly decided against – a decision that’s currently subject to judicial challenge.This, despite a promise to parliament, the public and those who had been tortured (now well over 200).

  • Athanasius

    It’s not that the BIDENS are in power, it’s that the DEMOCRATS are in power. The Bidens are just the current capos of the syndicate, but once they’re gone, the organized criminal conspiracy which is the Democratic Party will continue. People simply HAVE to get past the idea that the Democrats as an organization are essentially good, but they’ve been corrupted by infiltrators. No, they haven’t — the Bidens, like the Clintons before them, are in their natural habitat. It’s not Washington that’s the swamp, it’s the Democrats.

    The entire history of this rotten party is one of violence harnessed to political power. When Slavery was being defended in Congress before the Civil War, it wasn’t being defended by the South, it was being defended by the Democrats. When the Union sundered in 1861, it wasn’t the South against the North, it was the Democrats against the Republicans. When the Jim Crow laws were passed after the Civil War, it wasn’t America which did it, it was the Democratic Party; every single one of those laws, without qualification or exception, was passed by a Democrat legislature, signed into law by a Democrat governor, and enforced by Democrat judges and sheriffs. When the KKK was a major force in US politics, it was on the side of the Democrats, not the Republicans. The Bidens are just continuing in a long tradition.

    The Republicans are an ordinary western political party, which is to say they’re full of venal, self-serving and downright morally weak and compromised people. The Democrats, however, are outright criminals and at no time in their history were they ever anything else, except possibly for a very brief period under Kennedy. It staggers me that people have continually failed to realize this in the two hundred or so years of the party’s existence, although I suppose it shouldn’t. Like most Europeans, I grew up with the Kennedyesque view of the party, and it took me decades to realize that Kennedy was an outlier among Democrats. Within the moral limits of being a bootlegger’s son, Kennedy was, as far as the holding of office was concerned, reasonably honest. He was a genuine anti-communist and more centre-right than is generally understood today, but he was in no way representative of the Democrats. People look at this party as though it were Sleeping Beauty — all that is required is the kiss of the Prince to awaken her an all will be well, the Bidens will disappear and a new reign of goodness and light will ensue. Grow up, folks, it ain’t going to happen. You can’t make a silk purse out of a sow’s ear, and you can’t make a genuine, reformist political party out of a mafia regime.

    • Garth Carthy

      @Athanasius:

      Yes, and that’s why at least half-decent people like Bernie Sanders were sidelined.
      Trump was simply a very visible ugly boil that erupted on an already cancerous, corrupt political system.
      There are so many parallels in the UK, of course.

  • Ian

    It’s worth reading Nathan’s own detailed account of the circumstances, linked to in the first sentence of the article. It is posted on his Current Affairs journal website. You can subscribe to support him and keep reading his excellent articles there. Mulholland sounds like a very dubious character when you read it, even by the norms of mainstream journalism.

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