Ukraine: How Can the War End? 1323

I could not believe Putin really would invade Ukraine, because I could see no sensible outcome for him. I still cannot. Initiating a war on this scale has no legal justification, and no moral justification either. Russian troops are in areas which have no wish to be ruled by Russia.

Those of us who opposed the illegal invasion of Iraq must also oppose the illegal invasion of Ukraine. Whether the Ukrainian government is obnoxious or not is as irrelevant now, as the obnoxiousness of Saddam Hussein was irrelevant then. I am as fed up now with being asked if I support Ukrainian Nazis as I was then with being asked if I supported Saddam Hussein.

It is simply illegal to wage a war for regime change, without the endorsement of the UN security council.

I have great sympathy for Russian security concerns about encirclement by NATO and forward missile deployments. But seeking regime change by invasion in Ukraine could not possibly be the answer. I still have not the slightest idea what Putin seeks to achieve. It is simply impossible – and has been since the annexation of Crimea – that a democratic Ukraine is voluntarily going to elect a pro-Russian government. After this invasion, the only way a pro-Putin regime could be maintained in Ukraine would be by extreme authoritarianism, going well beyond the prevailing system in Russia itself.

Let me put it starkly. This can only finish with a government in Kiev which absolutely hates Putin as now do the Ukrainian people, or with Russia maintaining a puppet regime by extreme repression. There isn’t a way out with a peaceful, neutral Ukraine. Once you try to resolve matters by pure force, you lose that option. If I were Ukrainian, there is no way now I would be agreeing to the demilitarisation of my country.

As for denazification – which certainly is needed in Ukraine – Putin has given the “heroic anti-Russian nationalist” meme of the Ukrainian nazi groups a massive boost. While labelling the entire nation and government as Nazi is just wrong.

I did not think Putin would invade, for all those reasons. I did not even think he would acknowledge moving troops into the Donbass. I was unsure what to argue about that if he did. The Kosovo parallel with the newly acknowledged Donetsk and Lughansk republics is arguable. As a supporter of Scottish Independence, I am open to arguments from self-determination, and you can read Murder in Samarkand on the capriciousness of former internal Soviet borders. But this has gone far beyond that.

Yet we have seen nothing like the simply massive civilian casualties the West inflicted on Libya, Iraq or Afghanistan. Not anything like the same order of magnitude. In the town of Sirte, Libya alone NATO bombing killed 15,000 people. Casualty figures being given for the whole of the Ukraine so far are still in the hundreds, and thank God for that.

Sirte, Libya, after NATO bombing

Either Putin has not entirely willed the means, or his armed forces are resisting obeying his wishes. Russia has not unleashed anything like the kind of firepower that would need to be unleashed to subdue Ukraine. Western media has gone into full war porn mode, but the extent of real fighting is uncertain. There seems to be a great deal of shadow boxing.

I do not know the explanation for this. It seems very possible Putin has underestimated Ukrainian morale, and really believed Ukraine would crumble. In fact, Zelensky is playing a blinder in terms of maintaining morale, however staged his photo-ops. The more pressing question is whether Putin overestimated the willingness of his own military to kill Ukrainians, or whether Putin himself lacks the will. In Grozny, he was directly responsible for civilian casualties on a truly terrible scale, but is he like the West in putting much less value on Muslim lives?

Grozny Destroyed by Russia

To date, Kiev has faced nothing like what Sirte faced from NATO or Grozny faced from Russia – but not because Russia lacks the capacity to do it.

If Putin is himself ready for massive Ukrainian deaths, is his military pulling its punches? I am reminded of the War of Slovenian Independence, where the soldiers of the massively superior Yugoslav army just refused to kill Slovenes. In that case, many of the Yugoslav troops were initially told it was just a live fire exercise, which lends credibility to the idea the same is happening with Russian troops here.

Putin has not improved his negotiating position. My own friends and allies on the left are suggesting that the answer is for there to be a ceasefire and Western agreement to no further expansion of NATO, and a new arms control treaty governing missile deployments. That would certainly be ideal but it is not going to happen.

You have to understand the realpolitik of the Western elite. They will never damage their own interests. That is why the sanctions that would really hurt Putin, targeting companies like BP and Shell over their Russian interests or the real oligarchs like Usmanov, Deripaska and Abramovic, will never happen because they would damage the interests of the British elite. It is why the UK government fly Ukrainian flags but will not let Ukrainians come without visas. They don’t really care about the ordinary people at all.

The NATO leadership now see Putin in a position where he either has to back down and retreat, or inflict massive casualties on the Ukraine and get bogged down there for decades. If they wanted to save the Ukrainian people, this would indeed be the time for West to negotiate. But the lives of ordinary Ukrainians mean nothing to them.

So rather than find Putin a ladder to climb down, they will strike heroic poses, wave Ukrainian flags and send more weapons. I fear Putin will go for the mass deaths scenario. Macho is his entire brand, and his speech last Sunday was worryingly fundamentalist. I do wonder if he is losing the room at home – he spoke of the end of the Soviet Union as a calamity, but Russians under forty cannot even remember the Soviet Union at all. Nobody under 50 can remember it in any kind of functioning order.

One final thought for now. I applaud those brave people in Russia who have demonstrated for peace. Almost 2,000 have been arrested. But remember this – under the Tory government’s new policing bill, taking part in a demonstration in England and Wales not approved in advance by the police could bring up to ten years in prison. Just one example of the rife hypocrisy submerging us all at present.


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1,323 thoughts on “Ukraine: How Can the War End?

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  • Squonk

    Watching Biden’s speech tonight I’m even more depressed about where we go next.

    I’d like to see 2023. Chances getting higher many of us don’t in my paranoid opinion.

    • Wikikettle

      We have defacto declared WAR on Russia by imposing an economic blockade on it and moving our forces to its borders. Fighting a Conventional war against them is the first step in this madness. If you think that is unlikely, than you are deluded. The boys with their B52s and all the nice shiny missiles can’t wait to play. A neutral country would be a safe place to escape this madness. Oh! Didn’t Russia ask Ukraine to be Neutral? We in UK are obviously a target rich environment. Perhaps I should sail to Ireland. But how can I avoid a nuclear fall-out?

      • Jarek Carnelian

        Retired U.S. Col. Doug MacGregor says Ukrainian Government is Corrupt and We Shouldn’t Help Them

        Col Doug MacGregor says Ukrainian gov is corrupt and we shouldn’t help themFox News (YouTube, 3, 52s)

        On July 27, 2020, the White House announced that President Donald Trump intended to nominate Macgregor to serve as the United States Ambassador to Germany. On November 11, 2020, a Pentagon spokesperson announced that MacGregor had been hired to serve as Senior Advisor to the Acting Secretary of Defense.

        TRANSCRIPT excerpt:

        Here is colonel Doug MacGregor a former senior advisor to the secretary of defense – thank you for joining us, why do you think Putin is doing this and what is his end game?

        Well Vladimir Putin is carrying through on something that he’s been warning us about at least for the last 15 years which is that he will not tolerate U.S. forces or their missiles on his borders much as we would not tolerate Russian troops and missiles in Cuba, and we ignored him and he finally acted. He was not going to allow Ukraine under any circumstances to join NATO.

        What’s happened now is that the battle in eastern Ukraine is really almost over; all the Ukrainian troops there have been largely surrounded and cut off. You have a concentration down in the southeast of 30 to 40 000 of them and if they don’t surrender within the next 24 hours I suspect that the Russians will ultimately annihilate them.

        That’s why Zelenski is meeting with Putin’s representatives right now. The game is over and he’s going to have to negotiate the best deal he can get and we’ve already told him the President of the United States has said that if he opts for neutrality for the Ukraine then he will back him…

  • Tatyana

    Andrew H
    You ask why I’m not going to protest this war. Thank you very much for your question, and thanks Mr. Murray and Mods and all people who make communication possible.

    People may underestimate the blessing of propaganda 🙂 Actually, prepared people with the set of quick answers are indeed blessed. Unlike me. I have no TV antenna and only get my news on Internet, picking myself interesting topics. This site is my main place to get updates on politics. I find the community very informative and I appreciate the diversity of opinions.

    Back in December I commented asking Mr. Murray of his opinion on NATO-Russia proposed treaties. It felt dangerous already at that moment. Everyone realised that NATO will refuse talking and I expected I’ll be running somewhere with my family and my cats. This didn’t attract Mr. Murray, so I decided it’s not worth attention.

    Better I watched TV!
    Unfortunately, we mocked the very idea and didn’t expect Russia to attack Ukraine. The news pored on me like a storm and filled me with panic, pain and shame. I wish you never ever feel what I feel. I wake up of tachycardia and all day through I deal with nausea. It lasts all these days and I don’t know if it stop sometime.
    It was always like “ours are doing something to stop the conflict, while I mind my own life”. I spend my time watching jewelry lessons on YouTube, instead of following the events in Ukraine. So, apalled, I had to catch up, learning what’s going on and what is said from both sides, and how it is possible on Earth that Russia hits Ukraine.

    For me, going to protest this war is impossible, Andrew. I live very near the Ukrainian border. I myself have Ukrainian ancestry. I watched A LOT of evidence of what they were doing to Russians in Ukraine and I myself tracked a case of utter hypocrisy – a person pretending to gather money for charity, sending it to kill Russians, a Ukrainian in London. No doubt she was also advocating among her London friends and colleagues, spreading the image of Ukrainian victim.
    A girl from Donetsk who fled from there long ago sits in the next workshop. I asked why she did’t tell me. You know, the answer was they don’t want to be a burden, or make more inconvenience, or bring negativity. They are happy already to flee the war.
    I haven’t seen girls in London or Kiev protesting the war in Donbass. They all believed they were doing the right thing staying home and funding the war. Now, I believe I do the right thing staying home.

    Another reason is that I see with my own eyes now the level of hatred pointed to all Russians. And, I see the level of acceptance of hateful ideology in Europe. When we touched on the question of Nazism in some discussion here, it was Mr. Murray praising Ukrainian Hitler collaborators as brave people fighting for liberty. The discussion revealed it’s seen different in Europe. I assure you, they are not little funny boys from Skokie, Illinois, demanding that freedom of speech applies for everyone. These are well-trained men with guns, backed by NATO and it’s ME who is the target.
    I don’t want a Ukraine hating Russia with our border more than 2000 kilometers, and NATO bases on the opposite shores of Azov and Black seas. I take this threat very serious. I’ve seen what NATO can do to a country, which they appoint their enemy. Now I’m appointed the enemy, and I support my country’s effort to change the situation. I cannot live under such a threat all my life.

    The third reason that I don’t go to protest is very personal. I live in Russia all my life and I want it to be a thriving country. My experience here doesn’t encourage me to trust the government, but I want to trust it very much. The recent changes in my country bring me assurance that we go the right way. Here is another blessing of propaganda. You there must enjoy easy life, trusting yours. I’m not. I have to follow events and make conclusions every time. I’ve seen what was done in Syria. I’ve seen what was done in Kazakhstan, when many said Putin will conquer it 🙂 He fulfilled what was stated and went away. My hope is he does the same this time. Secure us. It would be impossible with a leader like Yeltsin or Gorbachev. I’ll be holding Putin’s side until we are secure.

    Of course, I wish Russia was understood by the West, but I see why it is impossible for the reasons I listed, and you may add more. Putin will retire, Russia will stay, and Europe too. What will we and you do then, if everything is so much wrong already?

    Thank you again for the oppotunity to voice my thoughts, helps to ease the tension inside of me. Thanks.

    • DiggerUK

      @Lady T,
      When thieves fall out over the money, it is not a safe place to be near. At this moment in time cool heads must come to the front line.

      The ‘Cuban Crisis’ was resolved and the ‘Suez Crisis’ was resolved. All crises end.

      You sound fearful, I’m confident that behind the posturing and hashtagging sound minds are coming to the fore. Am I concerned that the dimwittery that led to WW1 starting can happen again? No…_

    • andyoldlabour

      Thank you Tatyana, for that insightful, intelligent post. Unfortunately you are correct about the rapid increase of Russophobia in the West, it is being fuelled by our media and politicians. I think many people do not even know what is happening in the Eastern Ukraine, where 14,000 people from that area have been killed by the Ukrainian military in eight years.
      Please stay safe, I wish you luck.

    • Tim

      I have always valued your contribution here. I am so sorry to here you live in such anxiety. I too cautiously support Putin; some action was necessary – whether this was the right action we will not know until the smoke clears.

    • DunGroanin

      Friend Tatyana ?

      Brilliant words, thanks for expressing the reality away from propaganda.

      We are not enemies except by living in countries who are manipulated to hate.

      The Russophobia is built on the monstering of Putin or whichever strawman that can be sold as a simplistic Narrative to the masses.

      We turn a blind eye to the overt racism that many African and Asian students lured to Ukraine face as they are refused access to trains looking for evacuation from a war zone they were lured to.
      We ignore the overt xenophobia expressed in saying that ‘white skinned blue eyed civilised’ are ‘suffering’ – ignoring that Ukrainians are as much Russian peoples as these living just over the borders.
      We send high tech weapons into a cauldron and encourage civilians to use hand made petrol bombs which will inevitably see them damaged and dead.
      We ignore the overt nazis that we train and arm and we are fed pure lies with made up photos.
      Just so that these great wizard string pullers can achieve their long term aims.

      The crowd madness is revived.

      But they know not what they do.

      So sorry to here that such stress is being ratcheted upon peoples – many of my WhatsApp groups are reacting to their buttons being pushed – but it is well to try and stay calm by meditating on the day to day work and life as you do

    • paul metcalf

      russia will be on the right side of history tatyana,without doubt,and you and your family can look forward to the future.alas,the west with its permanent oligarchy and ignorance,will continue its decline physically and spiritually.

    • Thomas Coyne

      Thank you for some reasoned and intelligent input Craig – something that is sadly seriously lacking in the western media.

    • Ripples

      We can’t know Russian perspective or Putin’s motives because propaganda in the UK is perpetual and negative.
      I have seen how many is it 157 wars and governments and democracies and economies destroyed for oil gas, ideaology as an exuse, rescue the poor people, as an excuse. America or the arms industry who have the pressure, bankers who hold the politicians in their grasp and corrupting commodities of oil, gas mining for gold diamonds or territory …all of it cause the deaths of millions of lives by America.
      I see Russia threatened for the last two decades and rhetoric and false stories in Western media, as the do with Scotland …negative this negative that Russia bad this Russia bad that.
      I know Russia is not a perfect country not an easy life but all the lies come from this side UK USA.
      I expected the EU to try harder for neutrality and peace.
      But how can they with so many leaders out in place by globalists.
      It is psychopathic American war mongers who cornered Russia.
      Instead of rebuilding the American economy they always nlame others rather than let thwir people know that they waste so much public money on waging wars and spending on arms.
      The pretend to help Ukraine but they have been provoking and threatening for years.
      Propanganda has made the public stupid. And so many other voices of integrity are constantly pushed off the internet.
      The internet was also bringing people together across the World for a short time you could often speak to pwople feom a different culture. We would all begin to see the neverending attempt to keep us terrorised by our own governments to keep the money flowing away from just causes, clean water, health care , uncorrupted food, housing and justice to look after our environment.
      The money flows to the war mongers the greedy and the psychopaths and if one leader however imperfect as we are stands up against the rest , to do something different , independent of the World Bank the Petreodollar, defies the Americans they are portrayed as evil. NATO bombed Kosovo not another Balkan state they made everybody hate Serbians by lying about what was really happening. America used the biggest American base in Europe in Kosovo after the war was over to move opium from Afghanistan into world markets… Fo the lessons of Vietnam to Venezuela I woukd trust Russia more and even Putin’s motive more. I don’t believe intent or capability for Russia to invade Eastern Europe. But to militarise Ukraine in the way that has been happening. For the arming and training in places like Poland for the last ten years for the hatred and neo nazi grosth without check is a problem. If the EU and NATO want to help de escalate the situation of any conflict why do they rush to sell weapons. The UK have continued to sell weapons to kill poorest people in the world in Yemen for example. Suddenly all sympathy lies with .Ukrainians who have been killing fellow citizens for 8 years who have been complicit in arms and troop amassing.
      The is something fundementally sick in the American administration who see enemies everywhere or rather covet the natural resources of the rest of the World instead of looking after the continent they stole and and degraded in less than 300 years. I hope thier empire lasts less time than the Romans…that it stops now by not fighting a proxy war with Russia pretending they care about people anywhere. I truly believe that Scotland did not win independence because it was a faked result as the UK english govt and their overlords as Scots wished to leave NATO and be free of American and English nuclear weapons and even nuclear power.
      America would never agree to not using Scotland as a strategic land post, and sea to hold their nuclear long range missiles but as the ports nearest the Baltic and the land nearest the Arctic ( more destruction and fighting oil and gas after the North Sea) . 2014 reinvigourated the Cold War doubled up anti Russia propaganda from then on.

  • ET

    Jail Time for Czechs Agreeing With Russian Intervention (1 Mar 2022) – Consortium News (900 words)

    “The Supreme Public Prosecutor’s Office considers it necessary to inform citizens that the current situation associated with the Russian Federation’s attack on Ukraine may have implications for their freedom of expression,”

    And maybe similar happening in Slovakia and Latvia too.

    “I assure you, they are not little funny boys from Skokie, Illinois, demanding that freedom of speech applies for everyone.”

    Indeed, Tatyana, they are nasty people who don’t want you to express or explore anything but the “official” narrative.

  • Tatyana

    I hate war. I’m not religious, but my philosophy in many ways shares the values of christianity, about love and peace and other very good principles of peaceful co-existence. I’m deeply ashamed and horrified to find myself on the side who hit. No support and no justification will ever work. It’s the core of my soul maybe; it will forever stay inside me. I hope I will find sometime the way to fix what has happened. So far, it is only pain.
    I feel responsibility for the whole world, and I’m helpless to make them talk to each other. Very similar to what Robyn DiAngelo described, saying we don’t move on eliminating racism, if we don’t learn how to talk about it. The talk itself is painful.

    Thanks once more for listening to me 🙂

    Now to what must be brought here from the very beginning is:
    Founding act on mutual relations, cooperation and security between NATO and the Russian Federation (27 May 1997) – North Atlantic Treaty Organization (NATO)

    On page 3 you read:

    “… NATO and Russia, based on an enduring political commitment undertaken at the highest political level, will build together a lasting and inclusive peace in the Euro-Atlantic area on the principles of democracy and cooperative security.
    NATO and Russia do not consider each other as adversaries. They share the goal of overcoming the vestiges of earlier confrontation and competition and of strengthening mutual trust and cooperation. The present Act reaffirms the determination of NATO and Russia to give concrete substance to their shared commitment to build a stable, peaceful and undivided Europe, whole and free, to the benefit of all its peoples. Making this commitment at the highest political level marks the beginning of a fundamentally new relationship between NATO and Russia. They intend to develop, on the basis of common interest, reciprocity and transparency a strong, stable and enduring partnership.”

    Every line was put into doubt in recent years, trying to turn every meaning upside down. I even heard they want to re-write the maps, to mark the border of Europe at the border of Russia, so that Russia is Asia and the term “Euro-Atlantic” doesn’t apply.
    I think you may find more evidence, how the meanings of words is challenged today. At the latest Minsk meeting our representative Kozak had to bring the English dictionary to clarify the sense of the words in the text, because Ukrainians argued they understand it differenly.

    • Tatyana

      on page 4:

      “Russia is continuing the building of a democratic society and the realisation of its political and economic transformation. It is developing the concept of its national security and revising its military doctrine to ensure that they are fully consistent with new security realities. Russia has carried out deep reductions in its armed forces, has withdrawn its forces on an unprecedented scale from the countries of Central and Eastern Europe and the Baltic countries and withdrawn all its nuclear weapons back to its own national territory.”

      When NATO wants nukes in Ukraine. Ah, by the way, from the first line you see why we are not democracy.

      on page 5:

      “Proceeding from the principle that the security of all states in the Euro-Atlantic community is indivisible, NATO and Russia will work together to contribute to the establishment in Europe of common and comprehensive security based on the allegiance to shared values, commitments and norms of behaviour in the interests of all states.”

      That is why our values are no longer your values, and bihaviour is very bad, that we even poison people in the world with strange substances. That is why nukes in Ukraine, and that is why our security means nothing any more.

      ” In strengthening the OSCE, NATO and Russia will cooperate to prevent any possibility of returning to a Europe of division and confrontation, or the isolation of any state.”

      How many times you’ve heard that Russia must be isolated? And, doing it right now. I mentioned many broken treaties on mutual inspections, the latest was US withdrew from the “Open Sky”.

      • Tatyana

        And, on page 6 you find the list of usual complaints about Russia:

        “…vital role that democracy, political pluralism, the rule of law, and respect for human rights and civil liberties and the development of free market economies play in the development of common prosperity and comprehensive security”

        They won’t let you hear a voice from Russia: they instead paint a picture for you, following the list of sins. They show you that you are a democracy, not Russia; there is opposition in your country, but dictatorship in Russia; law works in your country, in Russia it does not; human rights or civil liberties? – everyone is sure they are things that Russia doesn’t have. Ah, not to forget free markets. That is why RT will be banned, only approved ‘journalists’ would bring you their pictures.
        I’m not saying we are all right on all these points. We cannot be, we just went out of great disaster after the USSR broke up. I want to say it is hypocrisy is to make friends with Saudi Arabia, when denying Russia of basic security.

        • Jane

          Tatyana, all strength to you. I send a hug from the centre of England to you in Russia. We are all one human community, and our leaders play the games they play. The tragedy begins when their game-playing results in the deaths of innocent people: people trying to get on with their lives as best they can.

          Thank you so much for posting these perceptions here. Yes, the hypocrisy of the western political/mainstream media machine is embarrassing to me.

  • Tom Welsh

    Apologies for spoiling the lovely symmetrical comment count of 1111. Mr Murray has considerable authority as an ex-ambassador, with his knowledge and experience of international law.

    So I would like to bring to everyone’s attention this interview with Peter Ford, another British ex-ambassador of a slightly older vintage.

    INTERVIEW: Former UK Ambassador Peter Ford Warns About NATO Escalation in Ukraine (1 Mar 2022) – 21st Century Wire (audio: 53m 5s)

    • Tatyana

      Tom, in December when I tried to drive Mr.Murray’s attention to the NATO treaty, someone interfered in the same way like you do now. If you were seeing me sitting here and shaking of panic, I hope you’d understand the hope I put again, to drive Mr.Murray’s attention.

      Can I suggest the video
      Dr. Robin DiAngelo discusses ‘White Fragility’ (4 Jul 2018) – Seattle Channel (YouTube, 1h 23m 30s)

      I don’t agree on every point, but I find many clues to understanding people around me.

      • Tom Welsh

        Tatyana, I am very sorry if you think (as you seem to) that I have interfered with anything you were trying to do. Please accept my apologies.

      • Ripples

        I am encouraged that there are some people who see through the propaganda and see that there was moves to put nukes in Ukraineagain.
        Even worse to try and split Russia.
        American imperialism more than anything.
        But the fact that it is dangerous to voice that or share that thought in the UK or other European countries shows that our laws have been corrupted and that the media now leads collective mania.
        They nudged people over the pandemic causing mass hysteria but not zbout the facts about the damage that the disease could provoke but that people were more likely to have mental health problems ( caused by the governtment seeding this) and recklessly encouraging new spikes from civil disobedience instead of civic responsibility.
        Is independent thought now being outlawed to facilitate global capitalists unchecked?

  • Ewan

    In his speeches President Putin described in some detail the military bases the US/NATO is using across Ukraine to stockpile sophisticated weapons & radar installations covering Russia to the Urals & across the Black Sea. This is the response to Russia’s invitations to negotiate mutual security, such as Mr. Murray says Russia should persevere with rather than responding with military force. It turns out international law, as practised by the US/NATO, allows US/NATO to threaten the security of any state it wishes, and, as we know, attack at will. Again, in the hope of an answer, what does Mr Murray propose states thus threatened do about it?

  • Ottomanboi

    The Great Game, 21st century super edition, is being played on the global board once again, according to the ancient rules of dual standard. The west is pregnant with hubris, its eyes blinded by the vision of itself as the storm troops of superior «universal» values.
    I hope this affair ends with the west’s eyes being restored to 20/20 vision accompanied by the stark realization that its perspective is not a universal.
    America and England need to inspect their own history to appreciate just how «dual» the rules of the power game have been and evidently still are.

    • Tatyana

      That is what I wonder, the strange gender policy and related things that appeared suddenly in the West. Is it part of the Game? To show Russia is not respecting human rights as well as you do, so NATO-Russia act don’t apply. Wonders me, how you advertise gender issues among kids?

      • Rhys Jaggar


        Many skeptics think that the gender issue is being played the way it is now as an arm of the depopulation agenda.

        Most of us don’t have any problems acknowledging that a minority of the population are homosexual or bisexual and that, if they obey the rules of society like everyone else, should be treated equally and with equal respect. The fact is that the majority of those folks didn’t take a university course in homosexuality, they discovered growing up that that is the way they were naturally. That’s not something anyone should be able to hate or try to destroy. I say to many fundamental Christians that ‘God created homosexuality. Because if he didn’t, he is not omnipotent.’

        However, when you start actively trying to destroy the natural emergence of sexuality in children through blitzing them with dozens of ‘gender identities’, the vast majority of which are total nonsense, then what you are likely to end up doing is creating a large rump of young people not driven to breed.

        You will notice that quite a few of the most prominent politicians breed profusely – Boris Johnson has six legitimate children and at least two children sired out of wedlock; Jacob Rees-Mogg, another prominent right-winger, has six children; the prominent white racist historian, Andrew Roberts, has 4 children. Folks like that are all for white right wing men breeding like rabbits….

        If you think that in a dystopian future, all babies will be created by Klaus Schwab’s AI IVF labs, choosing eggs and sperms to be mated in a test tube and then transferred to a woman surrogate to be brought to term, then you can see why removing the natural breeding instincts are in the WEF madfolk’s lines of sight.

        One of the things nature teaches you is that genetic redundancy is essential to provide resilience against environmental shocks yet to be imagined. Nature has had an awful long time to develop that redundancy and I don’t think that AI is going to mimic it all that quickly.

        The question the dystopians need to answer is, having broken the bonds of mothers and fathers creating children, who is going to bring up all these factory-created children?? And what kinds of human bonds are they going to have??

        • Natasha

          Rhys, your suggestion that queers are being ‘gas-lighted’ to stop shagging is (at best) inaccurate (e.g. confusing gender & sexuality which is off topic so I won’t pursue corrections here) and irrelevant: there won’t be any “factory-created children” since thermodynamic reality is that high energy density fossil fuels are running out: the next few decades will see a MASSIVE global de-growth of population, less than c1bn by end of century. More here:-

          • Andrew H

            I agree, Natasha, a fundamental problem of so many Christian groups is their basic rejection of biology. If we can reduce population that would be a good thing (all people aspire to be mass consumers and mass energy users which fundamentally is inconsistent with the resources that are available) – social changes and low sperm count that help to bring population down are good for humankind.

        • CasualObserver

          About 30 years ago, it started as ‘Political Correctness’ and over time its grown into what amounts to full blown WokeWorld.

          The best definition of WokeWorld would be that its a model of, or a facsimile of the mind of a 16 year old girl. It focuses upon perceived injustices, and reacts with violent hysteria towards those who confront it with alternate realities.

          In academia it actually has a proper name, and a supposed body of learning to add credence, its called Post Modernism.

          Pretty much all of the western world has bent the knee to Post Modernism, to oppose any of its tenets was simply too costly in terms of income and position. Certainly unscrupulous politicians have used it to increase their influence.

          With the Russian action against the Ukraine, all of the above is being challenged on a huge scale, and the resultant hysteria is also huge. With western politicians having used every action short of war to try and push Russia back, the public hysteria continues to build. As ever, hysteria demands immediate results, and the lack of results only creates more hysteria, its a sort of feed back loop.

          We really need politicians to be effective politicians, rather than simple mountebanks at this point. absent any attempts to quell the hysteria we are heading towards quite uncertain and dangerous times.

          On a lighter note, now that Suffolk County Council are moving to cancel their supply contract with Gazprom, I’m sure that Vlad will see sense. 🙂

          • Anna

            “The best definition of WokeWorld would be that its a model of, or a facsimile of the mind of a 16 year old girl”

            Ridiculous sexism in this comment, as throughout this forum in general.

  • Tim

    Well I am strongly against war.

    But much as I appreciate your expertise and experience, I think there are some things that you have missed.

    Firstly, Ukraine has a large minority ethnic Russian population, and strong support in the East. So to say that “Ukraine “thinks this or “Ukraine” thinks that is misleading. Some Ukrainians support his actions, others oppose it. There cannot be any serious doubt for example that the population of Crimea were overwhelmingly in support of becoming part of Russia once again.

    Secondly I think you have an irrational prejudice against Putin. He was horrified at the destruction he witnessed in Chechnya, and since then has been extremely careful about prosecuting war. The way this war is being prosecuted to avoid civilian casualties is perfectly characteristic and consistent; it is funny to see how baffled the Western military have been that he has not used indiscriminate bombing and I think it is much more likely that the army are frustrated with his pacifism and are urging him to allow the use of heavier weapons.

    Thirdly, he has said repeatedly that he has no intention of occupying Ukraine or overthrowing the government. Zelensky will remain president. He sees himself not as fighting his brother Ukrainians, but as fighting the scourge of Naziism. Russia lost 11 million men in WWII; Naziism has been strongly on the rise in Ukraine, actively supported, encouraged, and armed by the West, and for Putin this is unfinished business. He has sworn that never again will Russia fight a war on its own soil; he sees this as pre-emptive measure to prevent a repeat. He will withdraw his forces once he is satisfied that the Nazi elements have been dealt a crushing blow.

    I agree that illegal wars are wrong; but this war has been going on for 8 years, and the West is the aggressor not Putin. Ukrainian artillery hit Russian soil; US nuclear subs have prowled Russian waters; and there are many other acts of war by the west which make this legal

    • Ed

      Hi Tim, I’ve always castigated Putin for the destruction of Grozny. That’s very interesting what you say about him being horrified at the destruction. do you have any references for that?

      • Tim

        searched for “putin helicopter grozny” on duckduckgo but the only promising link was from which is blocked 😉

        But I think one can infer from his subsequent actions that it affected him deeply. Since then he has often come under heavy criticism from Russians who say he puts Russian troops at risk by being too gentle.

    • Bayard

      “it is funny to see how baffled the Western military have been that he has not used indiscriminate bombing and I think it is much more likely that the army are frustrated with his pacifism and are urging him to allow the use of heavier weapons.”

      One of the problems that we have in the West is that our leaders and military top brass think that everyone else thinks like they do, which in the case of the US is “shoot first, ask questions afterwards, negotiation is a sign of weakness”. Not only that but that all countries are the same, just with different languages, hence the farce that is “sanctions” on a country that we need to trade with more than they need to trade with us.

    • PearsMorgain

      NATO only carried out a few bombing raids on Sirte but the ‘carpet bombing’ is an anti-NATO meme our Craig likes to trot out every now and again. In truth in 2011 Sirte was subjected to a brutal five week long siege and five major assaults by rebel forces using heavy artillery and tanks; none of which apparently did any damage.

      • Jason G

        I despise war. Although I am not religious, my philosophy shares many of the same ideals as Christianity, such as love, peace, and other important concepts of peaceful coexistence. I’m humiliated and shocked to find myself on the side of the attackers. No amount of support or argument will ever be sufficient. Maybe it’s the center of my soul; it’ll always be a part of me. I’m hoping to figure out a solution to remedy what’s gone wrong at some point. So far, it’s merely been a source of discomfort.
        I feel responsible for the entire world, and I’m unable to make people communicate with one another. Similar to what Robyn DiAngelo said, we won’t be able to eliminate racism unless we learn how to communicate about it. The discussion itself

      • Natasha

        @PearsMorgain here’s a report (amongst many) that supports Craig’s ‘carpet bombing’ description:

        “Gaddafi’s home town of Sirte, in contrast, was one of the former dictator’s bastions, remaining under loyalist control up until the dictator’s death. In the process of being captured by the rebels, the city was almost completely destroyed.”

        And another:

        “The war culminated in the carpet bombing of Sirte and the torture and murder of Gaddafi, after which then-Secretary of State Hillary Clinton gloated, “We came, we saw, he died.” “

        • PearsMorgain

          Your first link doesn’t even mention NATO and the second provides just a blank statement from a conspiracy website.

    • mark golding

      Sirte reminds me of a similar campaign in the lead up to the US assault of the Iraqi city of Fallujah in November-December 2004. After demanding that civilians flee, the commanders of the 10,000 US troops and marines who invaded the city regarded everyone still there, especially men, as justifiable targets. The entire urban centre became a free-fire zone, while civilian buildings were systematically levelled as a means of killing snipers and other anti-occupation fighters. The US used poison gas, nerve gas and phosphorus in Fallujah.

      We must not forget the US proxy element in the form of the National Transitional Council or NTC terrorists who assisted in the seige of Sirte.

      History tells us the NATO operation had nothing to do with “saving lives” in Libya. The people of Sirte were subjected to a collective punishment for their hostility toward NATO and the NTC, with the brutal military operation serving as a warning to people throughout Libya and the region against any resistance to the agenda being advanced by Washington, London and Paris.

      • PearsMorgain

        ” The US used poison gas, nerve gas and phosphorus in Fallujah. “

        Sure they didn’t use nuclear weapons as well?

        • mark golding

          With dial down tactical nuclear weapons the line has been blurred twix conventional/nuclear such that only detailed analysis of neutron enhancing residues or blast characteristics tell us truth, thus, I am uncertain where these weapons have been used.

        • andyoldlabour

          Pears, no but they used depleted uranium rounds, which is responsible for the massive increase in cancer levels in that part of Iraq.

      • nevermind

        To add to Mark’s excellent reminder. No sanctions followed of the participants of the carnage in Sirte.
        Or in Syria, Iraq, or Afghanistan. Western Hegemony and attacks using proxy countries seem not to bother any Human rights bodies, the UN or international courts.
        It is vital that talks start to show some humanitarian resolve, safe zones, a cease fire observed by the OSCE.
        The one-sided over-hyping of situations, making up of casualties and or arms shipments into Ukraine must stop, this is not about regime change in Russia, this about international security as agreed.
        The west has done nothing to safeguard Ukrainian Russian speakers, they did nothing/say nothing when the ceasefire was broken and thousands got killed by ultra nationalists who take their cue from the past’s murderous OUN.
        Such murderous men should not be allowed to get EU access or visas.
        If America is so keen on ultra right-wing nutters, they are welcome to them.

      • PearsMorgain

        “Shelled to smithereens”

        “The denuded buildings of Sirte will have to be demolished after they were pounded with heavy artillery for weeks.”

        Thank you.

          • zoot


            if pears is still a nato apologist at this stage it’s safe to assume he’s unreachable.

          • andyoldlabour

            Zoot, I shouldn’t waste my time, but sometimes the facts are too easy to find. It was the Iraq war which opened my eyes for good, particularly the propaganda from our media and the glorification of death and destruction. It was obscene. Then the revelations about the war crimes we committed, the torture and rendition.
            I will never forget a work trip to Carlsbad, California back in 2005. We went to a large bar one night, which was largely populated by loud US marines from Camp Pendleton. One of then was saying – “Can’t wait to get to Iraq and shoot some ragheads”
            The US is a violent country domestically, but the real problem is, that it exports its violence all around the globe.

          • PearsMorgain

            They can call it what they like. No proof the death toll, bad as it was, was anywhere near the 10-15,000 claimed.

  • Jack

    Reactions by west is so overblown and is so dangerous, european nations even leftist parties, try to overdo each other do claim they are the most anti-russian, they are the most hawkish! How on earth did we get here? The whipping up of hysteria really show how easily people could be turned into a warmongering crowd. And anyone who dissent, is a traitor or apologist.
    Regular russian folks outside of Russia is now suppose to take a public stance otherwhise they will be bullied, harassed, canceled, have to quit their job!? What the hell is this racism!?
    And then they talk about russian propaganda? About russians being brainwashed?

    And now EU just cut off major Russian banks from SWIFT. I have no word left really.

    • Wikikettle

      I think we can safely say the US has isolated Russia from Europe and the EU is the Civil Control Arm of NATO under US direction. The EU now orders individual European countries who now do as they are told. Take Hungary which tried to be independent as example. The ” New Normal ” though is that US UK no longer controls Iranian oil and the way things are going in Syria and Iraq, the ” Middle East ” ie Saudi Arabia and Gulf States will be very unreliable cheap ” Gas ” petrol stations for the West. No doubt US will try harder for Regime change in Venezuela to secure its oil. At least now all future Oligarchs will think twice spiritting their loot into Western Banks. Looks like everything Michael Hudson and Scott Ritter predicted is about to befall us. Africa again to be fought over. Same old same old. Imperialism unabated.

      • Wikikettle

        An economic blockade of Russia is an act of War. As I said before Egypt made a big mistake denying an Iranian tanker from transiting the Suez Canal. Also just one accident of the huge container ship, blocking it for long time caused havoc. UK hijacking an Iranian tanker trying to enter the Mediterranean was also a very stupid precedent to set. Freedom of Navigation is very vital for China in the South China Sea. For the US Navy to claim Freedom Of Navigation ” exercises ” there is a sick joke. China will record how Japan was blockaded prior to Pearl Harbour. So all in all…a World still at War….

        • Wikikettle

          Sorry my point being, how easy would it be for Russia to blockade us ? Discuss, and would we consider it an act of war ?

        • Tatyana

          On money question, this is the day I can firmly say – I’m proud of my government! What is announced for support of our entrepreneurship, I think I now consider some opportunities 🙂 And especially on securing russian asset from being bought by foreign business from hostile countries 🙂 I wish I saw the face of Germans, who probably expected to buy NordStream2 shares when the price is at the bottom and just have the whole pipeline for free 🙂
          Also, some wise steps to limit access of those hostile countries to russian currency prompts me someone still more interesting is under the way 🙂
          Of course I don’t expect easy time, but, as I said, we are not lazy and we can earn money.

          China, thanks for holding our back! I will never forget your kind support and negotiating for peace! Eternal gratitude forever! We will pay back with the same in many ways. We understand true friendship and reliable partnership.

          • CasualObserver

            Seem to recall that when NATO bombed Belgrade, they managed to bomb the Chinese Embassy.

            Even if one ignores the bigger picture of the return of the multi polarity of world powers, it’s clear the Chinese would have ample reason to poke the eye of NATO.

          • DiggerUK

            Lady T,
            I just watched a BBC News interview with a representative of the Chinese government following their abstention on a UN vote. The BBC interviewer was keen to interrupt, but didn’t prevent the Chinese speaker getting a sound message across.
            The message was that Russia is determined to prevent NATO getting a foothold in Ukraine at all costs and such a move must not be countenanced. China is a brutal regime, but is playing with a sound mind,, strange how the diplomatic world spins.
            Anybody who has read Craig’s Orangemen of Togo will easily understand.

            The BBC interviewer kept raising the 2000 Ukrainian dead since Russia invaded. Neither of them mentioned the 14000 dead in Eastern Ukraine following the 2014 coup…_

    • Goose

      The backdrop or context of this misguided collective punishment of all Russians is the ‘collusion’ rubbish that gripped the US for years after Trump’s election along with the interminable Mueller investigation. The US MSM basically spent four years conditioning every American who hated Trump to, by extension, hate Russia.

      The US establishment felt humiliated and simply couldn’t accept the idea the US people had freely elected someone like Trump of their own volition(this despite the fact no one argues – based on current polling – he could do it again in 2024). The origins of this crisis also lay in Syria, where Putin frustrated Obama’s ‘regime change’ plans in 2013, earlier in the same year Putin gave refuge to Edward Snowden responsible for the biggest classified intelligence leak in US history.

      The nonsense spilling over from the 2016 election turmult came to Europe, where centrists accepted any and all accusation made against Russia as simply unquestioningly true.

      This is backdrop to the dangerous economic overreaction.

      Tightening the economic noose around Russia’s neck is just a manifestation of this long-simmering Russophobia. I hate this Russian invasion, but collective punishment is also wrong.

      I don’t know what the hell our European leaders are doing tbh? Where are our western doves willing to sit down and hammer out a diplomatic solution that allows all sides to claim they got part of what they wanted?

      Putin is nearly 70 years of age, do we really want to sacrifice the planet for someone who’ll be too old to lead in under a decade?

      • bevin

        You would appear, Goose, to be developing a “thing” about the President of Russia. Do you honestly believe that the decision to go to war, clearly arrived at after the rigorous exploration of every alternative, was made by one man. And a man who is so evidently deranged that a casual reader in the UK can see it?:
        In fact there is every indication that the decision was forced upon Russia, was the only alternative to national suicide and was supported by both the legislative and executive branches of the Russian Federation.
        There is something very unhealthy, mentally, about this obsession with Vladimir Putin. People should be aware that it began when the man began to enforce regulations against the foreign allied kleptocracy that was rapidly looting the country of its wealth and resources. Neither the individual ‘oligarchs’ nor the imperialist interests for whom they were working, in the City and Wall St, have ever forgiven Putin or stopped believing that the Glory Days of the 90s, when life expectancy in Russia fell by about six years and millions starved to death, will return on VV’s demise.

        • Goose

          Well, he is at the fulcrum of all western activity.

          Our European leaders, and Biden in the US claim Putin is a dictator.

          Which begs the question : Why are they collectively punishing ordinary Russian citizens with crippling sanctions and destroying their savings?

          • Tatyana

            Because they don’t want to vote against Nazis, racism and other forms of xenophobia. On the opposite, they use it as an instrument. I don’t know if russians abroad should unite with the Black Lives Matters. Something must be done with it.

          • Lantern Dude

            Goose: “Our European leaders, and Biden in the US claim Putin is a dictator” – so it must be true. As to the additional question you asked (while not really answering the original question as to your assumptions about the Russian President) It is a good question but probably not considered by the people you mention. I’m not completely convinced those people have more than a rhetorical interest in ‘ordinary people’. You might visualise it as the political consequence of an economic system geared to the increasing extraction of the ‘surplus value’ from those ‘ordinary people’ who maintain our everyday lives. Remember 75% of the UK workers were NOT furloughed during the deadly Convid scamdemic (I’m asemantic when it comes to Convid). The Ukrainian scam operates along the same lines IMO.

        • Bramble

          He’s our Emmanuel Goldstein, bevin. Propaganda operates that way. Now we have had a decade and more of hate directed at one man. It’s deeply demoralising to live in such a society as ours.

        • Bayard

          It’s how we are being told to think. Russia is “Putin”, just as the US is “Biden”, Syria is “Assad” and France is “Macron”. In the last election, one side was “Boris”, another was “Corbyn”, everything is reduced to a gladiatorial contest between champions.

    • jordan

      Yesterday, the other Alex of the team announced that they went off YT having removed all official content. You will find them on,, and of course

    • Ingwe

      Tatyana, March 2 2022@ 13:36
      I too watched and was comforted by Mercouris’s calm and reasoned analysis.

      The anti-Russian hysteria is being whipped up by every media possible in the UK and it appears from most western countries and is indicative of the fear the leaders have of the people knowing the truth. Only their narrative is acceptable. If this link has already been posted, I apologise but if not, Tatyana, if no one else, may be comforted by it.

      Russia-Ukraine: A different invasion, the West’s same ‘madman’ script (28 Feb 2022) – by Jonathan Cook.

  • bevin

    A lengthy and very useful article at John Helmer’s website today.

    Operation Barbarossa in slow motion — This is the offensive capacity the US was preparing in the Ukraine until last week (2 Mar 2022) – by Nikolai Storozhenko, translated and introduced by John Helmer, Moscow – (Dances with Bears – 3,000 words)

    The article, by Nikolai Storozhenko, details the NATO bases established in Ukraine in recent years, including several US Naval bases.
    Elsewhere it is reported that Russia has destroyed 8 of the 15 biolabs the Pentagon has established in Ukraine. There is a ring of these labs, designed for biological warfare, around Russia.

  • David

    RT just taken off air….! best news station ever…will miss Murad, Saskia and Peter Lavelle. Looks like back to the lies of NBC and ITV news….

    • Goose

      I didn’t watch it all that much.

      From what I’ve seen it’s biased – certainly in terms of guest invites; but so are the BBC’s guests and Dateline London etc. Sky News is just plain obnoxious. The best shows on RT imho, were Afshin Rattansi’s Going Underground, and Ross Ashcroft’s Renegade Inc. Lavelle seems a decent presenter, but the problem with Crossfire is the talking heads echo-chamber format. Lavelle should have had more opponents on, arguing different positions.

      The amount of inaccurate Ukraine reporting by the BBC, Sky and others during this conflict has surprised.

      This is an organisation that pitches itself as the antidote to alleged Russian disinformation. Not just Schrödinger’s Snake Island soldiers – who both refused to surrender, and did surrender at the same time. Our MSM published two other claims that turned out to be incorrect, misleading people, no apologies. The BBC claimed it had done so by mistake. But former news people, say all old footage is systematically archived in such a way as for that to be impossible.

  • mark golding

    The Western media, the UK/US propaganda machine has bulldozed statements by China’s foreign minister Wang Yi’s efforts for a ceasefire. In Wang’s speech we understand that China has consistantly opposed the expansion of NATO Eastwards, this being a cardinal mistake by Western powers as it violates Russian security. And security, protection and freedom are fundamental to representative government in all civilised countries.

    It is therefore open and shut that totalism has shackled our lives.

    China has said that Ukraine should realise, should DO something to commit to some form of Minsk agreement. China has told Ukraine to commit to a legally binding agreement that halts Ukraine’s posture to join NATO.

    China in a somewhat pedagogue response has told Western powers that NATO expansion is the bottom line problem for Russia and that ‘cold war’ mentality has gone, kaput, horse and cart, yesterday. Sanctions Mr Yi said have no basis in international law and in fact disrupt a peace settlement process.

    China as a US peer makes use of a very large economic muscle. A potency that Washington fears and for that reason hides the truth of Chinese intercession behind a jittery shadow of spineless silence.

    • Wikikettle

      China has now port facilities in Iran and Pakistan. Iran is no longer isolated and can survive western blockade by selling its oil to China. Its ability to go it alone and build its own space station lays down the marker for further naval build up to secure its maritime trade routes and bottlenecks in the Mallaca Straits. The ‘adults’ in US military are very concerned how the ” Nixon goes China ” policy has been overturned. US policy is now captured by the know-nothing thinktankers influencing corrupt law makers on a single-track mantra that rolls over and cuts their own strategic interests.

  • DiggerUK

    You can’t make a fool a bigger fool by giving them foolish things to read.
    You can’t make a wise person a fool by giving them foolish things to read.
    But you can make a fool a wiser person by allowing them to read anything…

    • Wikikettle

      I will miss Going Underground with Afshin Rattansi, Chris Hedges and on Sunday nights George Galloways MOATS, shouting and castigating.

      • Bob

        Wow! It is still on here as I type; maybe the ‘update’ hasn’t been fully pushed through yet or the TV is slow to react. I dare not ‘retune’ in case it disappears. Taking RT down really is an act of war.

          • Bayard

            It’s the result of a strange belief amongst the UK Establishment that there is a very common form of gullibility that allows people to tell truth from lies and then believe only the lies.

        • DiggerUK

          I would never seek, nor support, the closure of any section of the media, arts, literature or speaking out freely in any manner.
          It’s the foundation of all our freeborn rights to decide. No censorship…_

    • Bob

      I was surprised that RT was knocked off of satellite since the UK is NOT is the EU, and the UK transponders on Astra 28.2E have a ‘footprint’ that focuses on the UK. Disgraceful! Shame on SES! And bollocks to the EU!

      • CasualObserver

        For your listening pleasure and maybe nostalgia.

        Radio Moscow World Service – Moscow Nights (YouTube, 4m 18s) – William Pietschman (30 May 2014)

        Its an intriguing thought that it will likely be much easier to eliminate the other side of the argument in this digital age ?

        Back in the days when the Cold War was very much a big thing, Radio Moscow could always be heard. Who has a short wave set these days.

        • Fred Dagg

          There is nothing left on short wave now except the odd “numbers” station droning on – everything has migrated to the Internet.

  • mikjall

    Where has Putin labelled “the entire [Ukrainian] nation and government as Nazi”? What makes you suppose that Putin aims at regime change or at rendering the Ukraine “pro-Russian”? Granted that he may be forced to arrange for regime change, but why suppose that to be his objective? You ask, “If Putin is himself ready for massive Ukrainian deaths, is his military pulling its punches?” Whatever else may be the case, it seems clear that this “special operation” has not been directed against Ukrainian civilians, has not destroyed civilian infrastructure, interrupted communications, cut off gas or electricity to anyone, interrupted supply chains of raw materials and food to the West or, for that matter, to the Ukrainian populace, and escape routes have been left open for citizens wishing to flee the surrounded cities—at least this is the case in Kyiv; we don’t know anything much about just what is happening elsewhere. It seems that Ukrainian military prisoners of war have been well treated and that Ukrainian soldiers who have surrendered and have signed paroles have been simply allowed to go home. These things may be mitigated in certain cases; I don’t know how the Azov Battalion is likely to be treated—probably no better than the neo-Nazi thugs treated the people they murdered in Odessa. But Scott Ritter, who probably has much better information than you and is no fan of Putin’s, do maintains that to all appearances the “special operation” is as “soft” as it is possible for a military incursion to be. This is clearly how the operation has been set up and is not due to the reluctance of Russian soldiers to murder Ukrainian civilians in defiance of the vicious, evil Vladimir Putin. As far as I can see, Putin doesn’t care who governs the Ukraine so long as the Ukrainian government agrees firmly and irrevocably to the demilitarization and neutrality of Ukraine (which should in itself guarantee non-aggression toward Donetsk and Luhansk) and the denazification of Ukraine. This is compatible with Ukrainian independence, freedom to trade with whom they like, free election of their own government (barring Rassenkampf) and, moreover, with the eventual reincorporation of Donetsk and Luhansk into a federalized Ukraine, which is what Putin has consistently advocated since February 2014 and right up to ten days ago. I am of course not saying that this is likely to be achieved; but if it cannot be, it will not be the Russians who are to blame. If the Ukrainians had been willing to carry out the Minsk protocols, none of this would have happened; but they were unwilling to do so, even though they signed on to the protocols, and were obviously ordered not to do so by the Americans. No doubt they were also ordered to mount their attacks on the Donbass which Putin said in advance would bring the Russians in to their defense. Blinken’s speech at the U.N. warning of imminent invasion was not based upon any clever American intelligence but upon his calculation that the Russians would come in (as they had said clearly that they would) in the face of attacks on the Donbass. You are so full of hatred for Vladimir Putin that you have completely lost your wits. I agree with you that this is an awful tragedy and that the fact of the incursion makes negotiations close to impossible; but I think that the Americans made them close to impossible long prior to the incursion, which, in the event, they did their best to bring about.

  • cimarrón

    Let no one say they weren’t warned.

    “Whoever tries to hinder us, and even more so, to create threats to our country, to our people, should know that Russia’s response will be immediate.

    “And it will lead you to such consequences that you have never encountered in your history.

    “We are ready for any development of events. All the necessary decisions have been made in this regard. I hope that I will be heard.”

    Putin warns of ‘consequences you have never seen’ if West helps Ukraine after Russia invasion (24 Feb 2022) – by James Holt (Manchester Evening News)

    • Wee Jim

      Has someone been reading King Lear?

      “I will have such revenges on you both
      That all the world shall — I will do such things —
      What they are yet, I know not; but they shall be
      The terrors of the earth. “

  • lwtc247

    Putin will call it off when Ukraine agrees (is forced to agree) to severe limitations on it’s army and allows Russia to monitor that status – A bit like Japan after WW2. Being a member of the EU will probably be OK but certainly not NATO. Other than that Russia will allow Ukraine to run it’s own affairs. Putin is just waiting for lack of food in the cities to force negotiations. That’s the only way out of this IMHO.

  • Goose

    NEW: Shadow cabinet ministers urge Keir Starmer to kick out ‘Stop The War’ MPs or risk losing the next election.

    They should quit now and form a new party. Because he’ll do this nearer the election when there is no time to react. A new party now and it can probably establish itself, possibly as an existential threat to Labour. Literally hundreds of thousands of pro-Corbyn folks would join and it’s start with around 30 MPs if the bulk of the SCG move.

    Starmer is utterly horrendous, he claims dovish MPs are a threat yet is asking Johnson to consider a Ukraine no-fly zone risking direct confrontation. This while being a member of the Trilateral Commission alongside the likes of ultracrat Henry Kissinger. Wonder if they talk about whether Cambodia was an example?

      • Goose

        U.S. protests Israel’s refusal to back UN resolution condemning Russia

        Israel can get as close as they want to Russia, safe in the knowledge the US will never criticise.

        When the end of the world comes there’ll just be little Israel left.

        • CasualObserver

          Israel will be clever enough to keep out of this if they possibly can.

          They have Russian forces on their doorstep, who could complicate things for them if the Russians decided to turn funny.

    • Jack


      Up until th 90s the left were anti-war, today they are pro-war, up until the 90s the right were the real crazy hawks, today you find more sense on Fox than CNN on foreign policy matters.

      • Goose

        We’ve seen frontbenchers resign over policy before, citing collective responsibility. But kicking backbenchers out of the party over policy disagreements is a new, unwelcome development. The constituency vs party boundary seems to be infinitely flexible for those wanting to remove the left.

        As others elsewhere have stated, what about all those in the PLP who constantly opposed Corbyn, nobody was kicked out.

    • Bayard

      Kier Starmer’s a Tory plant. His job is to make sure that Labour is either the Tory party with red rosettes, or it doesn’t get elected.

    • Goose

      The EU’s ‘rational-actors’ theory of Russia’s & Belarus’ leadership is a heck of a gamble.

      Russia may be the arsonists here, but the EU seemingly just wants to throw more petrol on the country.

      What have Europeans done to deserve these hawks who only know how to make matters worse and whose foolish pride won’t allow them to countenance compromise? Could despair at the lack of calming voices of reason.

      And Merkel was a better leader than Scholz.

    • Wikikettle

      Rhys Jagger. “assymmetrical” Indeed, I predict in Syria Iraq, and Gulf. No wonder Israel was very very worried and tried to broker a peace. Iran has both Russia and China behind it now.

  • Tony Pringle

    “Forgive us our trespasses, as we forgive those who trespass against us”

    Ukranian Orthodox Church Bishop Zoria slams Putin as the “anti-Christ” whilst Russian Orthodox Patriach Kirill describes opposite in Ukraine as “evil forces”.
    Understanding war, I’m reminded of Simone Weil’s, Iliad or the Poem of Force, which examines this intoxication. It’s 20 pages, and holds a mirror up to it. What scares me is the expression of force from ordinary people as well. Dalai Lama said ystdy just find peace ffs.

    • Goose

      Most of Russia’s losses come from booby-trapped (mined) bus lanes and hidden IEDs according to someone on the Telegraph comment section,.

        • andyoldlabour

          Eggington, thanks for that link. Banning RT is just the start, this is like 1984 being played out for real.

          • Eggington

            No trouble. is down again. Not sure if it’s Ddos or because the UK gov’t has taken a swipe at it. is up though.

            I recently read of a Soviet dissident who escaped to the West, he told his new found friends that once the government control the information you will know it’s totalitarianism.

  • Jack

    I reckon RT will find another vendor/outlet to stream their videos, but there is a huge loss not being able to stream it on Youtube.

    It is censorship and of course no journalists nor organizations in the west have condemned this move against RT and Sputnik.
    How could there be so few of us that see this hypocrisy?

  • jordan

    This message was on Alex Thomsons TK channel (

    Russia to return to the Gold standard?
    The government will abolish the VAT (tax) on bullion. This Bill will go to the State Duma on March 4. Going forward – when
    purchasing gold bars or other precious metals from a bank, the 20% current tax on top of its value will not apply. This is a
    way to ensure people can invest securely in something other than the dollar (usually people hold their cash in dollars as
    the ruble is volatile.)

    If true and the follow up properly implemented, this seems to be a blow against the USD. Our US/UK governments do all to keep the gold and silver price under control so that there is no incentive to out of the USD as reserve currency (aka Balance of Trade.)

    • CasualObserver

      Interesting idea, however the main western metals exchanges are likely very much rigged. Probably to ensure that stated quantities of gold never actually get audited, and re-hypothecation revealed ?

      Its also worth considering that the present crisis has thrown up many opportunities to make money on its back, whether that be shaking buckets in the local shopping centre, looting Russian assets at knockdown prices, or market making. The whole business of market making for things like gold and Bitcoin is pretty much a non stop process, and international crises are big help to the ‘Pump and Dump’ crowd.

      One should also remember that in the USA, FDR made the holding of bullion illegal in the USA around about 1935. The price was pegged at $35 per ounce for decades to come, with the prohibition of holding gold lasting until the 70’s.

      Were gold ever to threaten the hegemony of the USD, it would seem the USA/EU would not hesitate to enact similar restrictions ?

      • jordan

        Yes, gold and silver prices in USD are completely rigged. The price is fixed daily as far as I remember.

        It is tried to keep the price low, but this mean it has to be defended. I heard Michael Hudson pondering that some of the foreign gold in the US/UK vaults (eg. Venezuela) has been used for just that — and gone.

        • CasualObserver

          There’s a long running ‘Conspiracy’ theory amongst the gold cognoscenti that much of the gold stated to be in reserves was lent out long ago. And the ongoing reluctance of the USG to actually do an audit of places like Fort Knox only helps the story along.

          Added to which, much of the gold held by individuals is in the form of paper receipt for their stash being held securely. Which opens up the possibility that some some version of the fractional reserve game has been in play for a very long time.

          It’ll never be proved or disproved, the stakes are just too high. 🙂

        • Andrew H

          The price isn’t low at all. Gold is now 5 x times the value it was 2003. I wish I had brought then, and every time I think it can’t go up anymore there is another crisis and up it goes – now it seems too late. It’s pure speculation, and certainly not being kept artificially low.

          • jordan

            Did you follow up when the real increase was? I suspect that most of the increase was after 2008 — just a guess.

          • Andrew H

            Take a look yourself – you may need to click on the 20y/30y button.


            Between 2002 and 2008 you see a threefold increase ($10k per Kg up to $30k per kg). That’s an exceptional return for a 6 year investment (better than most stocks). From 2008 to now its doubled again (not bad either). Obviously bitcoin/Amazon would have been better still – hindsight is wonderful. (Amazon was kind obvious in hindsight)

          • Bayard

            The advantage of gold is that it will always have a value as a metal you can make things from, whereas, if Amazon or bitcoin crash you are left with absolutely nothing.

    • Andrew H

      Sounds an awful lot like the “weapons’ of mass destruction” story. We have heard it before – except this time it’s from Russia so it must be true. I’m surprised that so many people who stood up and objected to the invasion of Afghanistan and Iraq now turn around and justify a war of aggression by Russia against its neighbor. Craig Murray is consistent in his beliefs, but so many here are looking for any way they excuse the inexcusable.

      • jordan

        No justification or excuse. But understanding the timing is interesting nevertheless. The intervention might have been premeditated, or came as a response to something. It is natural to ask.

        Contrary to here, the original WMD story was pushed before the intervention.

  • DiggerUK

    Gold conspiracy theories, please, give me strength.
    What I don’t know about the gold market ain’t worth knowing.
    So please stop, you’re embarrassing yourselves…_

    • CasualObserver

      I lost track of it all when it shot up to (from memory) $1800 and ounce, and the sank gently back down to the 800 to 900 mark.

      But with your knowledge of the ‘Scene’ you’ll be aware of the famous dictum ”If you dont hold it, you dont own it” 🙂

        • Andrew H

          Perhaps, there is a chance to cash in here – buy now and the Russians will push up the price, then sell. I’m going for it. (why not – time to start playing like Soros)

        • Andrew H

          Hmmm… apparently they are experiencing longer than usual delays – won’t get my bars until May – perhaps trying to preempt the Russian market wasn’t such a good idea.

          • CasualObserver

            The gold bug community will be ‘Backing up the Truck’ at this time, So its entirely feasible that ‘Physical’ will be in short supply.

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