The complaint to the United Nations against my imprisonment for contempt of court has now been submitted. This is the first time I have been able to state the case without the compulsory use of Scottish counsel, who were astonishingly timid of criticising Lady Dorrian or detailing Sturgeon’s conspiracy, its personnel, and how it worked.
Those who followed my earlier legal submissions will note a real change of tone and emphasis.
At this stage my legal team advise I can only make public the first six pages of the forty four page complaint. These are below. The complaint also has many attached documents. I hope to make more of it public later.
I apologise but I again need to ask for your help, as the appeal fund is currently £12,000 shy of what is now owed. It has been a long, bruising and very expensive fight. I have been jailed in extreme harsh conditions, including being locked in a small cell 23 hours a day for four months.
But I do believe there has gradually been a sea change in public understanding of what happened. The fact that the exact people I accused of criminal conspiracy to fit up an innocent man, have since been arrested by police on suspicion of embezzlement and other offences, has led many people to look at my work in a new light.
I believe that every day we are closer to ultimate vindication.
I could have done none of this without the unfailing support of those who have donated large or small sums to the defence fund, and I ask you, but only if you can without hardship, to help again at this last stage. I do realise times are hard.
You can contribute to my defence fund here. I am extremely grateful to those who have and I want to stress that I absolutely do not want anybody to contribute if it causes them even the slightest financial difficulty. I am afraid to say that the need to raise huge amounts is of course all part of suppression of dissent, by “lawfare”.
Click HERE TO DONATE if you do not see the Donate button above
Alternatively:
Account name
MURRAY CJ
Account number 3 2 1 5 0 9 6 2
Sort code 6 0 – 4 0 – 0 5
IBAN GB98NWBK60400532150962
BIC NWBKGB2L
Bank address Natwest, PO Box 414, 38 Strand, London, WC2H 5JB
Bitcoin: bc1q3sdm60rshynxtvfnkhhqjn83vk3e3nyw78cjx9
Ethereum/ERC-20: 0x764a6054783e86C321Cb8208442477d24834861a
Craig,
It has seemed to me for a long time that there is a hierarchy in the UN system. This dictates that some concerns are given serious and diligent consideration – while others aren’t or are given a blind eye or shelved for a prolonged period or simply ditched.
I think, much depends on which country’s interest is affected. The UN itself is a power structure of global interests.
Let’s see what happens with your complaint.
The Complaint seems to need a bit of editing. The following, from the 2nd paragraph of the intro, could be clearer:
Am I imagining it or did you suggest in previous posts that your previous lawyers had effectively been threatened by people connected to Dorrian?
They don’t need to be threatened. They know the score. I have family members in the Scottish legal profession. If the appropriate level of obsequiousness is not shown, they know that adverse consequences follow for them and their clients.
The Scottish (and UK) law courts are feudal hangovers – judges addressed as “my lord” and “my lady” – and derive their authority from The Crown – and certainly not “The People”. They have no democratic legitimacy, and are a closed shop – and riddled with freemasonry.
The higher reaches of the ‘profession’ are reserved for privately educated Edinburgh toffs, hence much of the Advocacy branch. Private education inculcates obsequious deference to ‘authority’ in any case.
But what is more important, for those who harbour judicial ambitions, they know they have to toe the line.
The whole set up is an anti-democratic racket – a conspiracy against the people and inimical to justice. Recall, thet the most important function of the law is to protect the ruling classes from the attentions of those – the lower orders – from whom they rob and thieve.
In this, the Scottish haute bourgeoisie – the New Town denizens of the law, serve their masters admirably.
The law in Scotland is not an instrument of justice but an instrument of power. That is overwhelmingly clear at this point.
Indeed so, Mac!
The only ‘good’ thing to come out of recent events (though at huge personal cost to Craig and other victims) is that it makes the operation of corrupt judicial power, coupled to corrupt political and police power, clear and palpable.
Alf Baird will tell us precisely how this relates to our subservient colonial status, operated by these very same Unionist agents.
It’s not the ‘Crown’ Office for nothing!
Well, judges should *never* be a product of democracy, mainly because democracy boils down to a popularity contest. Whereas we expect the judiciary not to care whether their verdicts are popular or not. We simply don’t want judges to focus on fighting the next election.
Why not
* have all trials by jury
* give every jury the right to acquit or convict if the judge asks them to decide
* give every judge the right to acquit but NOT the right to convict
?
That’s how it’s supposed to work in most serious cases.
Make it work like that in every case, certainly for every alleged offence that can carry a custodial sentence of any length.
Good luck with the the fundraising appeal and your application to the UN.
I hope to hear the UN address when a writer is not a journalist but is instead a blogger, so is not entitled to enhanced protection afforded to journalists under the Human Rights Act 1998.
As that issue raises a potential hypothetical scenario where only those whom the courts approve of, are then judged to be “real journalists” so have enhanced protection under the law. Whereas, those who publish dissident material the state or courts disapprove of can be judged to be online bloggers and so are denied an enhanced protection of freedom of expression under the Human Rights Act, so making it easier for the state and courts to justify harsher treatment of dissidents compared to state approved journalists.
I hope the UN also recognises the changing nature of journalism where fewer journalists are full or part-time employees of TV or newspapers and instead are self-employed and, for example, are paid per article or rely on donations based on their website output. Also, many people now obtain journalistic output via internet websites, rather than from traditional outlets such as newspapers and the BBC. This is particularly the case within the Scottish independence movement who not unreasonably perceive mainstream media “journalists” to be little more than publishers of pro-UK state / anti-Scottish independence propaganda.
Where (under the same terms) mainstream media publishers of pro-UK state / anti-Scottish independence propaganda could reasonably be regarded as “dissenters”, rather than “journalists”.
“can be judged to be online bloggers and so are denied an enhanced protection of freedom of expression under the Human Rights Act, so making it easier for the state and courts to justify harsher treatment of dissidents compared to state approved journalists.”
I don’t see why journalists should have different human rights from other humans. I expect the Human Rights Act robs people of their human rights by only granting those rights to selected journalists.
Good luck to Craig at the UN. It’s good to keep this issue alive whatever the odds are.
“298. The (European Court of Human Rights) Court has always asserted the essential role played by the press as a “watchdog” in a democratic society, and it has connected the task of the press in imparting information and ideas on all matters of public interest to the public’s right to receive them”.
“302. …The Court has further noted that, given the important role played by the Internet in enhancing the public’s access to news and facilitating the dissemination of information, the function of bloggers and popular users of the social media may be also assimilated to that of “public watchdogs” in so far as the protection afforded by Article 10 is concerned (Magyar Helsinki
Bizottság v. Hungary [GC], § 168).” *
* https://www.echr.coe.int/documents/d/echr/guide_art_10_eng
Journalists shouldn’t get enhanced protection. That’s just f***ing ridiculous.
Well done, Craig, very well done.
Sorry to sound like the ignorant buzzkill but what can expected out of this, except, at best, a potential symbolic slap on the wrist of the Scottish establishment ?
Surely the UN has zero jurisdiction on internal UK affairs ? The last legal recourse was the EHCR, and we know how it went (I’m personally still shocked by how it was handled – aka dismissed – but it won’t change things).
Is this really worth the effort (on a time / resource vs reward approach) ?
Well the EHCR might care about the UN. And if the EHCR and/or the Westminster and/or Scottish governments ignore the UN, it will at least help expose their lawlessness and hypocrisy.
Alex T would you care to give some context in which you believe this situation is playing out? What do you think is at stake? What do you think Mr Murray is hoping to achieve in attempting to pursue this case?
Apologies if you have already made your views known to the readers and commentators of this site. My internet connection is intermittent and I cannot always follow discussions here.
Good question, but why don’t you ask Craig himself?
Hey, Craig, what remedy are you seeking? I mean formally.
AlexT’s statement connotes authority or bad faith. I found it odd that AlexT would make broad generalisations without offering ANY qualifications, don’t you? Or are your critical thinking skills suspended, for some reason or other?
Do you not have the guts to ask your question yourself, instead of slyly piggy-backing on the endeavour of others? These days we live in are vertiginous and opaque and it behoves us all to aim for clarity and rigour, don’t you think?
If I had wanted to ask Mr Murray. I would have done so – are you trying to tell me how to act?
Finally, I was hoping to communicate with a person who has more knowledge than I do – instead I got you
Alex – I asked this question before. It seems a sensible one – I wish Craig every success in this endeavour, but did wonder what effect it might have. Anyway, Craig painted quite a positive picture here:
https://www.craigmurray.org.uk/archives/2023/04/defence-fund-appeal-united-nations-human-rights-committee/comment-page-1/#comment-1038010
Page 6, paragraph 2:
– “In another case, a protestor who held up a banner outside a court saying “Jurors: you have an absolute right to acquit a defendant according to your conscience.” was committed to the Old Bailey for contempt of court proceedings for trying to influence the jury…”
This is Trudi Warner, a close friend of mine. The court referred her case to the attorney-general. The attorney-general is of course the government’s chief solicitor, so I am very worried for her.
Best of luck to her, it sounds like she’ll need it! What would they have done if her banner had simply been a photo of that plaque on the wall of the Old Bailey?
At this point, it really does seem like life is imitating the art of “V for Vendetta”
Thank you; I’ll pass that on to Trudi.
Good luck to your friend but the British judiciary gets more Stalinist by the day. Let’s hope that she isn’t vindictively prosecuted.
The banner is merely repeating a basic principle that is well established in English law.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bushel%27s_Case
Wiki calls it “Bushel’s Case”, but it is also known as the “Penn-Mead” case.
There is a photo of the plaque on the Old Bailey referred to by Nota Tory Fanboy above.
Neil thanks for the information. An important case, in terms of democracy and the power of the state.
BTW I looked at the site you recommended and liked what I read. I will do some more reading, thanks
Under the “see also” section of that Wikipedia article is a link to an article on “perverse verdict”, which could also be relevant in this case? (Misapplication of the law)
The Attorney General is the UK government’s chief legal officer, Clark, and is usually a barrister, not a solicitor – as, despite the name, is his or her deputy, the Solicitor General. I’d imagine that, as with ancient legal principles concerning squatting, English law on jury nullification will soon be changing. Good luck to your friend Trudi.
Squeeth, Neil, and Lapsed Agnostic, thank you all. Trudi has told me she appreciates the support.
Someone should take a photo, surreptitiously if necessary, of that plaque at the Bailey.
I have seen such a photo in an article about Trudi’s case, but I forget where; it might have been the Guardian website.
Edit: Oh; here you go:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:William_Penn_%26_William_Mead_-_plaque_-_01.jpg
Neil referred to it above.
Just donated. Best of luck.
Mr Murray should not get his hopes up. There is a rather relevant article about the UN’s current credibility in the Consortium News today:
https://consortiumnews.com/2023/09/02/what-happened-to-the-uns-ability-to-mediate/
The article you quoted is about UN mediation, i.e., about the organisation’s role in mediating global conflicts; not about the UN OHCHR where Craig is sending his submission. Unless your intention here is to undermine UN credibility altogether?
Small donation. Good luck.
re: Assange
truthout from Sunday reporting:
“UK May Block Assange’s Attendance at Appeal to European Court of Human Rights
U.K. officials deny the case is about press freedom, and they won’t say anything about whether Assange can go to France.”
By Patrick Maynard
September 3, 2023
https://truthout.org/articles/uk-may-block-assanges-attendance-at-appeal-to-european-court-of-human-rights/
Mr. Murray, if the contribution comes from a Russian source, from a private person or from a public organization, will it harm you in any way?
Don’t worry Tatyana, Mr Murray can’t break wind without GCHQ carrying out a spectroscopic analysis of the discharged effluvia, to paraphrase a quote made about the late, great Neil Sheehan in The Post, the Oscar winning film. Like Craig and Julian, Sheehan exposed Western war crimes and other atrocities
I’m not a lawyer — but, but, but….. Surely the UK government can say ‘This case is not about the powers of the state, but the management of the justice system. The ‘fact’ of ‘contempt’ was decided by the judge, and the penalty was for the judge to decide. The UK courts have upheld these principles: surely the UN will not try to require the UK to set them aside?’
I made a contribution when Craig Murray asked for it, but unless someone can explain why my first paragraph is not correct, I think it may have been a mistake to do so.
Frank Waring,
The fact of ‘contempt’ of court with regard to an English court is one issue; the fact of the US wanting to extradite Assange, basically because of his truth telling, which inter alia exposed war crimes – is another issue.
Do not look for principled action on the part of the British state – for you seem to forget the ‘Matrix Churchill’ case when Tony Blair stopped the trial when it was becoming evident from the trial that the UK continued selling arms to Iraq after war had been declared. What was the PM doing? Covering the embarrassing fact, as best he could, itself a corrupt act.
What is the corrupt act with Assange? Punishing a journalist for speaking the truth about US war crimes with the UK judiciary now dancing along to a US tune.
Isn’t it so?
I’m sorry: I understood that Craig Murray’s application to the United Nations was exclusively concerned with the proceedings in which he was imprisoned. And, so far as I know, the treatment of Julian Assange was not an issue in those proceedings at all…..
The case against four of the directors of Matrix Churchill collapsed in 1992, Courtney, after former Tory minister Alan Clark memorably admitted in Parliament that he had been “economical with the actualite” with regard to export licences to Iraq. Later, the Scott Report revealed that some of the restrictions on the sale of arms (and machines to make arms) to Iraq had been relaxed in 1988, but this had not been announced in Parliament by the government. In 2001, Tony Blair’s Labour government awarded two of the directors compensation, thought to be around one million pounds, for wrongful prosecution.
I don’t understand the point you are making. Every tinpot dictatorship replied to every case that its courts were following the laws. The UN will look at whether that law is reasonable and whether it really was impartially implied. The answer to your question is in the submission itself quite plainly.
I wasn’t making the point ‘on my own behalf’: I hope the United Nations comes thundering out as your champion, and threatens to throw the UK off the Security Council unless it mends its duplicitous ways. I hoped the NUJ would give you honorary Life Membership, and that the ECJ would recommend the demotion of Lady Dorrian to a Sherrif Court in Bishopbriggs.
What I was suggesting, and not being a lawyer by all means tell me I’m wrong, is that the UK will take the line that the fact of contempt, and the appropriateness of the sentence were questions for Lady Dorrian, and the decisions of the UK superior courts were that she had made those decisions on the correct basis. Your unsupported assertion, the UK will say, that in making those decisions, she was acting as the willing tool of an oppressive state, the UK will say, is not sufficient grounds for requiring any change to the UK law and practice on contempt of court. I gave you a contribution to your expenses when you first asked for one, and I hope very much that you will be vindicated — even that somehow, justice will finally triumph in Alex Salmond’s case. But I don’t have a lot of confidence that they will.
so you’re regretting donating money because Craig might lose in a corrupt judicial proceeding? did you not understand that was a possibility when you made the donation?
Good luck with this.
Specifically rather than considering in the abstract the reasonableness of the law and its application they will look at whether Britain has breached its treaty obligations under the IBHR that the ICCPR is part of.
Another part of the IBHR is the portentously named Universal Declaration of Human Rights, which among other things puts signatories such as Britain under an obligation to respect parents’ “prior right to choose the kind of education that shall be given to their children.” In practice of course that goes out of the window in countries like Germany where home education is illegal – and the UN do f*ck all about it. Every signatory that makes state “education” compulsory is in flagrant breach of international human rights law.
Meanwhile…did you see the SAS broke someone out of a British prison yesterday?
I don’t fancy the poor b*stard’s chances at all. Several MSM organs are already quoting a source who says there will be a big “inquest”. Presumably – whoopsadaisy! – the cameras were turned off, or the data got lost, or it’s all a big mystery, and aren’t witches with foreign names demonically clever?
Or of course, which may be more likely, he wasn’t strapped under that van at all. “Strapping was found” – LOL!
He was a computer network engineer in the army’s Royal Corps of Signals.
The RCS are based in Dorset. I wonder what he was doing at an RAF base up in Staffordshire.
He’s accused of spying for Iran. The current or former serving member of the British armed forces on whom he was allegedly spying hasn’t been named yet.
Like I said, I wouldn’t fancy being in that poor f*cker’s shoes. I don’t think it was his friends who got him out of Wandsworth somehow.
It will be instructive to see how this submission is received. It is no surprise the European court wasn’t interested in your appeal given the SNP’s adulation of Euro power elites. (Cringingly on display again in Edinburgh this weekend). Let’s see if there is an international seat of established power that is worthy of some respect.
Craig
Can I contribute via PayPal
Willie Anderson
Insh
Kingussie
@ Willie Anderson
I’m no Craig but I know if you click on the “donate” button above, it takes you to a Paypal donation webpage.
Hope that helps.
Hi Willie I still intend to call in next time I am near
Interestingly, The Guardian is reporting this morning that an Albanian national being held in Germany on money laundering charges has been granted the protection of the German court system in an extradition case because it regards the conditions in which he will be held here fall short of civilised norms. I’d hope the legal team working on Julian Assange’s case would cite this circumstance and do what they can to have him released before his own extradition case goes any further.
You misunderstand how it works …
Money laundering is absolutely no problem for TPTB. In fact, it would be hard to find any Western Government, Institution or Politician that is not involved in one way or another in money laundering.
OTOH, Julian Assange has been involved in speaking the truth and holding TPTB to account. This is totally unacceptable so he must be punished/killed.
Also, interesting to note that apparently 10% of the Albanian population now lives in the UK – because of non-existant repression in Albania. Unless prosecuting criminals is now termed repression !
With a 2022 population estimate of circa 2.8 million, how likely do you think it is that there are more than quarter of a million Albanians living in the UK?
What justification do you have for your assertion that there’s non-existent repression in Albania?
3% of Albanian citizens maybe. Mostly young men, so a higher % of them.
Britain didn’t respond to the German judge in time. They probably don’t really want to try this guy.
Isn’t another name for money-laundering “banking”?
There is no hope for us in the West as it now seems to be overwhelmingly populated by idiots.
So according to you, who are the good guys?
Correct me if I’m wrong, but I’m guessing your bad guys are NIST and the entire civil engineering and fire safety communities, virologists, immunologists, epidemiologists, doctors, nurses, local authority statisticians and the entire public health community, climate scientists, palaeoclimatologists, Earth scientists of all descriptions, NASA, and basically anyone who can read a graph; literally millions of people, some of whom live in your own street, all conspiring to mislead the salt of the Earth. But who are your good guys?
I recently discovered an Alex Jones video from the actual day blaming Netanyahu and Israel for 9/11. That’s before he went insane. To me that’s really obvious. Not going to post a link .
— SNIP —
[ Mod: From the moderation rules for commenters:
9/11
We don’t discuss 9/11. There are plenty of places on the web where you can do that. It tends to take over threads.
There was a wide range of views expressed in the comments on the 9/11 thread, where the controversial issues were debated at length. If you have any new arguments, they should be posted in the discussion forum, not under Craig’s articles. You’re also welcome to revert to your more familiar former identity. ]
Pish the sock, I asked you, who are your good guys?. I guess we’re going to have to wait for Alex Jones to save us all by himself, and Saughton and Belmarsh must really be five star hotels. Here; why not read for yourself? Or are you claiming Craig made it all up? ‘Cos there’s a video of his family and a whole crowd of supporters meeting him as he was let out.
https://www.craigmurray.org.uk/archives/2022/01/your-man-in-saughton-jail-part-1/
https://www.craigmurray.org.uk/archives/2022/06/your-man-in-saughton-jail-part-2/
https://www.craigmurray.org.uk/archives/2022/11/your-man-in-saughton-jail-part-3/
We know who the “good guys” are, according to the likes of Pish. The now mercifully dead Rush Limbaugh, the white supremacist Tucker Carlson, the helium balloon-huffing soundalike Ben Shipero, Donald ‘Jesus’ Trump, and all the other far-right grifters who make a fantastic living telling us what the billionaire class want us to think.
Glenn_nl, you probably shouldn’t mock Ben Shapiro’s voice, though I suppose he might be putting it on.
He (Ben Shipero) doesn’t have to talk at several times the usual rate, this is obviously an affectation to make himself sound clever (or, in the ridiculous words of the NYT, “The cool kid’s philosopher”).
The actual result of talking so quickly is he doesn’t appear to be able to keep up with it – nothing is thought through. The upside is that the right-wing bobble-heads don’t notice, because whatever nonsense Shipiro just said is already hundreds of words in the past, by the time the listener hears it.
Glenn_nl; fair enough. I’ve never listened to him.
The reason I use a different name is that it was so long a ago I used the old one I can’t remember it. I left because I was put on permanent moderation for having an opinion the moderator didn’t like. The only time that happened before was at The Guardian (Integrity Initiative). I was banned from Twitter for having hostile opinions about the SNP. Very mild compared with opinions now.
Living in a third world country annoys people.
—
[ Mod: As a reminder, you formerly used the name ‘Eric McCoo’ (previously ‘Eric Smith’ and ‘Eric Smiff’) and you were placed on premod for trolling, having repeatedly provoked off-topic exchanges of ad hominem insults and ignored directions from moderators.
Any further comments about this matter should be posted in the Blog Support forum. ]
Nota Tory Fanboy, I feel considerably less hostile towards pish kumar now I know that’s you, because you offered your support for my friend Trudi Warner.
Craig, his wife Nadira (whom Craig rescued from Uzbekistan) and his son Jamie (who started the festival) are also personal friends of mine. I assure you, Craig really is the real thing. And Julian is a friend of Craig’s.
The early story of Wikileaks is fascinating. Yes, US military money went into infrastructure that became part of Wikileaks; in fact, US Naval Intelligence is still the main funder of the TOR anonymity network. The US wanted a service like Wikileaks; they actually seemed to believe that only foreign whistleblowers would have any incentive to leak secrets – the US, of course, being purely a beacon of freedom and democracy, in their hubristic imaginations. They turned on Assange when he published documents embarrassing to the US.
This echos the story of the internet itself. “Build us a communication system that can’t be censored” the US elite asked their academic and engineering communities – and ever since then the elite have been asking the same communities to find a way to censor the damn thing! Can’t be done, at least, not with any great effectiveness; the ‘boffins’ had done a damn good job and the genie was out of the bottle. Hence the persecution of whistleblowers instead.
The story of Phil Zimmermann and his email encryption program PGP is another illustrative example. Zimmermann’s gift to the world was attacked all the way up through the courts but eventually saved by the US constitution, back in the 1990s when it was still somewhat respected.
There appears to be some misinterpretation. In the off-topic comment that was soon deleted, ‘Nota Tory Fanboy’ (a.k.a. ‘UNGSD’, ‘Honey Pot’, ‘Distrac Ted’, ‘Lima Brava Charlie’, ‘Iron Ic’, ”BCD, ‘Spiritus Giorgio Rosa’) did not admit to being ‘pish kumar’, but was instead referring to the instructions he had formerly received to use a single identity, and he was trying to suggest there was a contradiction. However, the commenter calling himself ‘pish kumar’ was advised to revert to his former name ‘Eric McCoo’ – which is a single identity – and was not (as Nota Tory Fanboy seemed to infer) being granted implicit permission to use both.
This entire subthread (from 5 Sep @ 2:34pm) has been distractingly off-topic and will soon be removed. It was clearly stated that “Any further comments about this matter should be posted in the Blog Support Forum”, but unfortunately the advice didn’t seem to have much effect. Three responses from ‘pish kumar’ were blocked (including one in which he called Craig a “scumbag” on the basis that that’s the only kind of person who would be promoted to Ambassador). On that note, it is wrong to assume that people who don’t post follow-ups or respond to prompting have “run away” from the debate: they may simply have been prevented from posting further off-topic distractions or even been banned for further infringements of commenting etiquette.
Mods-cm-org:
– “This entire subthread (from 5 Sep @ 2:34pm) has been distractingly off-topic and will soon be removed.”
Fair enough; I certainly won’t complain. I explained my motive to Bayard below, and simple deletion would serve my purpose just as effectively.
I turned down a university teaching job to stay on benefits due to corruption in the education system.
Richard Horton (editor of The Lancet)
“Much of the scientific literature, perhaps half, may simply be untrue. “Afflicted by studies with small sample sizes, tiny effects, invalid exploratory analyses, and flagrant conflicts of interest, together with an obsession for pursuing fashionable trends of dubious importance, science has taken a turn towards darkness,”
Yeah, yeah, yeah. So if Craig Murray and Julian Assange are your bad guys, despite doing serious time in hideous prisons… Who. Are. Your. Good. Guys? Or don’t you do debate?
I’ve read Bad Science and Bad Pharma, so I’ve a fair idea how corruption of science is done, and how to tell, and guess what? What Horton said is much the same. It’s not news to me; I read his editorial when he published it. But you’re offering readers nothing but FUD.
PK: “I turned down a university teaching job to stay on benefits due to corruption in the education system.”
Well that’s fantastic, well done mate. That really showed them. As is completely obvious by the absolute lack of corruption now – the education system having been shamed into becoming a pure public service through your shining example.
/face-palm/
I came across a bunch of sad nobodies a few years back, associates of an alcoholic friend who has since died, sadly enough.
One explained to me how he was _proud_ to be of the claimant class, because (and I quote), “If that means we have less tax money to spend on wars I am very happy about that.”
I did ask him if was there any time in history a war was called off through lack of money in favour of public services, and whether he thought Meals on Wheels and the local library was likely to be kept going, while a nuclear weapons refit was cancelled in its favour?
Didn’t get any more of a sensible answer from him then, than I am likely to get from you now. But he had his Very Moral Reasons for staying on the dole rather than work, and facts and reason weren’t going to shift him from that position.
Personally, I think working was too much effort for him, and even more to the point, it got in the way of his drinking and pot smoking. But maybe that’s just because I’m “slave to the man”.
Work in education might have been good for you… at least you wouldn’t be so likely to offer the utterly discredited and complete joke, the proven liar Alex Jones to us as some font of knowledge. You would have had more self awareness than to do something as crass as that.
By that token, Glenn, are conscientious objectors really just cowards?
LA: Not at all. Not only were conscientious objectors willing to lose their liberty for their cause, they actually did a lot of other difficult and dangerous work instead. I don’t think they just sat around on the dole drinking booze and smoking dope while calling it a principled stand.
___
This site appears to be down quite a lot these days, anyone else notice this?
Thanks for your reply Glenn and thanks for answering my question. Another question for you: Has any war in history ever been called off due to the actions of conscientious objectors?
I too have had intermittant problems accessing this site of late. They started shortly after our host revealed where a source had told him the Skripals are currently residing in a below-the-line comment. Don’t know if that has anything to do with it.
I’ve heard that the error 522 dropouts are networking issues at the data centre. I think it’s just about money; they’re trying to force their existing customers onto “improved” ie. more expensive contracts.
LA: “Has any war in history ever been called off due to the actions of conscientious objectors? “
Not that I know of… but there have been some major turning points in wars (most notably Vietnam) because of protests and demonstrators. Nixon was seriously considering using a nuclear bomb in Vietnam, when he happened to catch sight of some women protesting the war outside the White House.
As it happened, those women were quite disheartened at the apparent futility of their protest, but decided to make the effort anyway for a final few hours that day. They only found out they were noticed upon reading about the Nixon tapes many years later, in which Nixon stated, “Those women again. Look how persistent they are now. Can you imagine what they would be like, and their numbers, if we use the bomb, Kissinger?”
I paraphrase somewhat, and I would struggle to provide a reference – I heard it on the Majority Report from the author of a book on protests over history, and this was a good few years ago.
Anyway – back to your question. No, I don’t know of any wars stopped due to ‘Conchies’, probably due to their very low numbers, relatively speaking, and the severe state propaganda used against them, where they were either ignored as much as possible or demonised as cowards and traitors.
However, I think their stand is very principled, and should be respected – the state cannot force a person to kill someone else. Working as a medic in battle has often been considered a noble alternative. The fact that some were even executed rather than to go to war surely shows that bravery was not the issue.
Now contrast that decision with the behaviour of Prof. Ben Goldacre, who explained “Bad Science”, whilst remaining in the job and helping ensure it doesn’t become the sort of closed bubble that Horton’s behaviour – if replicated (following his logic) – would make it
– “…petit bourgeoisie… Basically a class thing.”
Care to define “working class” for your readers? Or are you just spouting terms you haven’t bothered to learn the meanings of?
Have you considered that what intelligence he has may be artificial?
I hadn’t, but it makes no difference because the argument proceeds in public. Unless we challenge nonsense ourselves, in public for all to see, with evidence and reasoning that all can assess for themselves, we’ll be left with the options of censorship or chaos.
These ‘contributors’, whether human or synthetic, frequently post smears of the most worthy, but they conspicuously shy away from posting anything that can be debated with or checked. Smears, hints and innuendo, then they run away.
C: “Smears, hints and innuendo, then they run away.”
I’ve noticed that too.
Some people do this about climate change. They keep making statements in absolutes, but then get all coy and run off if a discussion of the denialist points _they_ made ensues.
That’s bad and annoying enough, but then they have the cheek to repeat the behaviour again and again, as if the earlier challenges to their denialism had never been brought up!
I wonder if Bayard has ever come across this sort of behaviour?
Anyway, I should thank pish kumar for the link, which is about governments suppressing and classifying university research:
– According to Julian, the US government cast such a wide net that even general scientific research, whose output had always been published openly, was swept up in America’s secrecy nets. As you can imagine this did not sit well with Julian, because his work had also been funded by one of these fundamental research funding lines and yanked. So here you have a non-US citizen at a foreign university doing graduate work studies, and the United States government came barreling in and not only snuffed out the funding and killed his studies, it also barred him from knowing what it was he had been funded to research. It was at that moment, Julian told me, that he decided he would devote himself to exposing organizations that attempted to keep secrets and withhold information in an effort keep the masses ignorant and disadvantaged.
Logically, pish must think the Bush administration were the good guys and doing everyone a favour, and that Lady Dorian and the UK government have done even better, imprisoning publishers.
You can find the original article from which pish kumar’s link quotes here:
https://web.archive.org/web/20130915035456/https://pandodaily.com/2013/09/14/how-the-us-government-inadvertently-created-wikileaks/
Apropos of something else you might find this essay about the rise of Zelenskyy from Lobster magazine very insightful
https://twitter.com/lobstermagazine/status/1697210343376789704?s=46
Shatnersrug, or any reader with a subscription to Lobster, I’d really appreciate a summary or a link to a copy elsewhere.
Lobster magazine is free.
Here’s the article:
https://www.lobster-magazine.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/GArrick-UKraine-parapolitics.pdf
Thanks.
https://yoursforscotlandcom.wordpress.com/2023/09/04/urgent-action-requested/
In answer to point above. The Scottish Government is trying to change 1200 years of constitutional law and the rights to have a jury, without asking its people.
A bad idea that should be pulled out of their heads with red hot tongs.
just a minor note on a new German whistleblower publication:
A book about 20 years of the “German Award for Whistleblowing” was just published. It contains the stories of:
Alexander Nikitin, Margrit Herbst, Daniel Ellsberg, Theodore A. Postol, Árpád Pusztai, Liv Bode, Brigitte Heinisch, Rudolf Schmenger, Frank Wehrheim, Rainer Moormann, Chelsea Manning, Edward J. Snowden, Brandon Bryant, Gilles-Eric Séralini, Léon Gruenbaum, Martin Porwol, Maria-Elisabeth Klein, Can Dündar.
Some of these were making public corruption in R&D and in academia.
https://www.steiner-verlag.de/20-Jahre-Whistleblower-Preis/9783830555506
“When employees make misconduct in companies, authorities and governments public, it is often a turning point in their lives. These whistleblowers, who have been honored every two years since 1999 with the Whistleblower Award by the German wing of the International Association of Lawyers against Nuclear Arms (IALANA) and the Association of German Scientists (VDW), talk in interviews about their live after receiving the award. What has become of the worldwide plans for pebble-bed reactors, have measures been taken for better control of pharmacies for cancer drugs, has glyphosate been banned, the uncontrolled surveillance by secret services stopped, the stopped, the nursing shortage alleviated? In interviews by jury members, almost all of the award winners said that despite the often persistent hostility, they would behave in the same way again.”
Oddly enough back then the jury did not recognize Assange´s significance. Asked at a panel 3 weeks ago they couldn´t really give a real response (some jury members have died since 1999). Neither did they dare say anything significant on UKR. But for any German reader the book might be wothwhile to check out.
The organisation behind it is the Federation of German Scientists:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Federation_of_German_Scientists
Almost nobody knows about either the Award or the organisation. The Award has been suspended a few years ago.
https://vdw-ev.de/about-us/
– “Oddly enough back then the jury did not recognize Assange´s significance.”
Could be because Assange is a publisher of whistleblowers rather than a whistleblower himself.
yes, may be you are right. I followed the presentation online. Not sure if they did do mention what you do?
But they did agree that it was a mistake.
[ An earlier reply got un-threaded, it appears. I hope this reply to LA can be made here ]
*
LA: “Has any war in history ever been called off due to the actions of conscientious objectors? “
Not that I know of… but there have been some major turning points in wars (most notably Vietnam) because of protests and demonstrators. Nixon was seriously considering using a nuclear bomb in Vietnam, when he happened to catch sight of some women protesting the war outside the White House.
As it happened, those women were quite disheartened at the apparent futility of their protest, but decided to continue their effort anyway for a final few hours that day. They only found out that they had been noticed upon reading about the Nixon tapes many years later, in which Nixon stated, “Those women again. Look how persistent they are now. Can you imagine what they would be like, and their numbers, if we use the bomb, Kissinger?”
I paraphrase somewhat, and I would struggle to provide a reference – I heard it on the Majority Report from the author of a book on protests over history, and this was a good few years ago.
Anyway – back to your question. No, I don’t know of any wars stopped due to ‘Conchies’, probably due to their very low numbers, relatively speaking, and the severe state propaganda used against them, where they were either ignored as much as possible or demonised as cowards and traitors.
However, I think their stand is very principled, and should be respected – the state cannot force a person to kill someone else. Working as a medic in battle has often been considered a noble alternative. The fact that some were even executed rather than to go to war surely shows that bravery was not the issue.
glenn_nl
sry for intruding, just because you mention Vietnam: I might have said this before.
In March a few months before his death Dan Ellsberg pointed out that despite all the public pressure created against Vietnam and boosted by his Pentagon Papers, the protest did not even stop Nixon from winning a landslide victory againt McGovern in the ´72 election. What did bring him down were Dean and the recordings in the WH.
I just found this very interesting since it was Ellsberg himself who instead of propagating his heroism had brought down Nixon, argued the other way (He added that protest and those women did help prevent the nuke you mention)
The info is somewhere in part 1 or 2 of these video conversations with Chomsky. Heartbreaking considering that he then knew he would soon die. Highly recommended also for sentimental reasons. (No clue how Chomsky is doing these days since Ellsberg´s death. But I fear it did hit him. Since Ellsberg was mentally in an impressive condition still. He could have just continued.)
1) https://znetwork.org/zvideo/chomsky-and-ellsberg-on-the-present-danger/
2) https://znetwork.org/zvideo/take-arms-against-a-sea-of-troubles-chomsky-and-ellsberg-pt-2-2/
Thanks AG, and you’re not intruding in the slightest. Nothing is a private chat around here, after all. I am glad you heard about the women from another source.
Appreciate the references too, I will take a look.
It’s quite remarkable that Nixon won two elections, largely on the promise of a secret plan to end the Vietnam war. Then again, Blair and Bush won elections after their lies about WMD were fully known to everyone.
Nixon secretly arranged for the war to continue while LBJ was in office, promising Ho Chi Minh a better deal than that which LBJ was arranging. He was called out on it before the election, but LBJ didn’t go public – thinking it would cause some sort of constitutional crisis.
https://edition.cnn.com/2022/02/16/politics/lyndon-b-johnson-secret-audio-origseriesfilms/index.html
– about halfway down (Johnson on Nixon: ‘This is treason’)
It has echos with Iran a decade later, when Reagan’s lot scuppered a deal between the Carter administration and the Iranians. Bill Casey of the CIA was responsible for the latter, and was about to testify on this to Congress when he stopped by the CIA HQ on his way. Following a coffee there, he suddenly fell ill and had to be operated upon immediately. They removed the part of his brain controlling language.
It surprises me that any country would believe such promises after this record, which makes it all the more astonishing that Russia accepted terms about NATO expansion without a treaty. Then again, Trump showed that Treaties cannot be relied upon either.
Sorry, I was very unclear above.
By “the latter”, I meant Bill Casey was instrumental in fixing the deal with the Iranians for Reagan. He made sure Carter would not get the hostages released, and indeed they were not – until the moment St. Ronnie put his hand on the Bible upon being sworn in.
Casey was the director of the CIA after Reagan got in, not just a casual employee – I should have been clear about that too. He was Reagan’s camapign manager.
Casey arranged for Iran to get TOW missiles, payment for which funded the illegal arming of the Contras in Nicaragua.
Thanks for your extensive reply, Glenn, and for reposting it. Your argument against your benefit-dependent acquaintance was that the fact that he was taking from the public finances, rather than contributing to them via income tax etc., wouldn’t make any difference to the government’s ability to wage war. As you’ve outlined, a similar argument could be made against conscientious objectors.
A better argument to use against him would have been to point out that there are substantial taxes on alcohol in the UK. The only defence against that would be for him to only drink homebrew (on which the legally-required excise duty hasn’t been paid) or to obtain his drink duty-free from countries that don’t partake in Western wars like the Republic of Ireland or Switzerland – but even then, whoever’s been on the booze cruises will have had to pay tax on fuel (as will the ferry company), unless they’re using red diesel from which the dye’s been removed with cat litter of course.
Correction/clarification: UK excise duty only has to be paid on homebrew if it is being sold.
LA: Thanks again.
That is a good suggestion, but with a significant drawback – this lot was undoubtedly the chief cause of “shrinkage” in the local Spar, Coop and various other rip-off outlets in a fair sized radius. It’s also unlikely the local dealers file complete tax returns. In fact, if it was put to them, depriving the government of revenue through sales tax would also be claimed to be as a moral stand!
Thanks for your reply Glenn. Forgot that he could have been obtaining his booze with five-finger discounts (I’m obviously too wholesome). I’d be surprised if he and his pals were the chief cause of losses for the local Spars & Co-ops though – I’d have thought that would be smackheads going for the meat products:
https://www.vice.com/en/article/5g98vq/heroin-meat-thieves-929
(Another correction to my previous comment: There’s VAT on red diesel, but it’s only charged at 5% rather than at 20% on the net price *plus* the fuel duty. There’s also 20% VAT on kitty litter.)
Enjoy the weekend.
LA: Appreciate it once again.
The wife and I were enjoying some fine dining among the salubrious clientele of a Swansea Wetherspoon a few years back, when a gentleman (who appeared to have just walked in from the street) inquired whether we would like to take advantage of his offer of a carrier bag full of some unspecified ‘meat’.
Your article is from about seven years ago, so the timeframe is about right.
His sales tactics were a little on the stronger side of allowing for a polite declining of this generous offer, particularly when we wouldn’t even take a quick look to see such an inviting deal (“Why not??”). However, telling him we were vegetarian did finally move him on to other potential customers.
Whether he was indeed a smackhead, or simply an honest and enterprising travelling butcher, I really couldn’t say.
New campaign and website:
Defend Our Juries
https://defendourjuries.org/
Please do watch the four minute video. My friend Trudi Warner is the woman at the front of the protestors outside the court, at 0:40 and 0:56. The video is also on YouTube:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wTR3s4wNw6o
– “It’s about a real attrition of democracy, a real silencing of people that impacts absolutely everyone… And then we have Palestine action for example, where [defendants are] not allowed to refer to the atrocities that are being carried out by Israel.”
– “The greatest enemy of truth is the blind obedience to authority, and we’re heading towards a very dark place in regards to that right now.”
Clark, someone has done an excellent job in creating that website, well done!
I notice at the bottom of the home page it says, “This right has been enshrined in British Law for centuries.” I hope it is, but my understanding has always been that the precedent of Bushel’s case applies in English Law. Can anyone here enlighten us on whether the law in Scotland differs on this topic?
Neil, thanks, for your commendation and your query; I’ll pass them both on. And thank you for your tireless work at Wikipedia.
“Truth, Justice, Peace.”
At first I thought of this only as a slogan, but it is far more than that; it is a dependency chain – without truth there can not be justice, and without justice, anything resembling peace is actually repression. So thank you for your valuable work, friend.
The NuSNP/Green Scottish Government is currently going even further and trying to abolish jury trials altogether….
The Defend Our Juries website, on its Resources page, links to Craig’s post of 20 May this year, Lawyers For Israel Oppose Conscience, in which Craig points out that although protestors face prison for informing jurors of their rights, Lawyers For Israel faced no sanction for very clearly and directly attempting to influence a judge, with apparent success.
On the editing theme – the first line of the complaint includes: “Mr. Craig Murray Esq.”
My understanding is that you should _either_ use Mr, _or_ use Esq, but never both in the same place.
And now that we’ve moved into the 21st century it is perhaps time to let esquire quietly fade into the mists…
rsp means that people should not mention that they are a prof., esquire, Dr. or Janitor. If you are a bitd tweeting champion whatever this is, the 21 century when stuff crumbles; parliamentary people grumble, argue, and point at each other.
If you expect the mouthing to be followed by action,
forget it.
Just more of the same, a life sapping game.
But we can think for ourselves and don’t have to be cloned.
We get on, evolve, and survive as best as we are honed.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Will-o%27-the-wisp
The BBC’s Disinformation Correspondent Marianna Spring caught lying on her CV.
You couldn’t make it up..
She did !
Probably why the BBC selected her for that role. A natural liar.
that’s grand!! she has a lot of practice.
Since it´s upcoming
Chris Hedges:
“Join Craig Murray and myself on Saturday September 9 in New York City at 11:30 am for a brunch held in support of Julian Assange. Reservations required.”
https://chrishedges.substack.com/p/join-craig-murray-and-myself-on-saturday
p.s. fortunately Craig Murray made his Germany trip last year, as the German train connections have become worse since. Just yesterday Munich Central Station had a complete break-down, and German train authorities were asking passengers to take other trains. Which is impossible if your destination is Munich.
There’s still plenty of time to join, even though brunch is more like a Sunday thing, but who cares.
I’m sure Julian doesn’t. And actually he could support Craig’s submission – why not – even if the word sounds gloomy.
At this point, since it is already clear that the United Nations are bound to ignore this Mr. Esq masquerade (British English former etiquette is no longer followed anywhere today), I think there’s only ONE FINAL RESOURCE to be useful.
Let’s appeal to the holy judgment of Pope Francis. We know he had a fruitful interview with Julian’s spouse.
Legal fees should be minimal, God helping. And he would make a terrific supporter of Scottish independence.
From now on, donations to write to the Pope!
p.s. btw, if rumours prove to be true you may soon welcome Oleksiy Reznikov in London as the new UKR ambassador. Ain´t that cool…a real war hero. Since you have none of your own.
Brecht’s Galileo advises us to pity not the land that has no heroes but to “Pity the land that needs heroes.” The insight has taken on a new profundity in the years since the fall of the Berlin wall.
thx! right!
I just talked about the Galileo play and the Oppenheimer play with someone. But its too long ago that I have in fact read it.
* * *
p.s. an open letter in German Berliner Zeitung signed by people of public interest on freeing Assange. Handed over to SoS Baerbock
see link: (In case use deepl.com)
“Open Letter: Ms. Baerbock, negotiate for the freedom of Julian Assange! – Shortly before Annalena Baerbock’s trip to the U.S., politicians and journalists, among others, call on the Foreign Minister in an open letter to stand up for freedom of the press and freedom of expression.”
https://www.berliner-zeitung.de/politik-gesellschaft/offener-brief-an-annalena-baerbock-verhandeln-sie-fuer-die-freiheit-von-julian-assange-li.386823
p.s. if there won´t by a new proper fiction movie about Assange (because no production company would touch it?), at least there should be a play.
GB is blessed with armies of playwrights.
“Good-morning, good-morning!” the General said
When we met him last week on our way to the line.
Now the soldiers he smiled at are most of ’em dead,
And we’re cursing his staff for incompetent swine.
“He’s a cheery old card,” grunted Harry to Jack
As they slogged up to Arras with rifle and pack.
But he did for them both by his plan of attack.
(1917)
Much more preferable to “In Flanders Fields” which I constantly bump into these days. Ghastly.
Looking up my old copy of Brecht.
It is in fact near to the end after the trial when Galilei has renounced. First his former student Sarti with his call “Pity the land that has no heroes” and after a few short exchanges Gs “response” which you quoted above.
Interesting: Sarti, when the verdict from the trial is not yet known, claims “They won´t dare”, meaning, the Inquisition will not dare kill G.
The same sentence in essence I believe is pronounced by Danton in the German play 100 years earlier in Georg Büchner´s “Danton´s Death”, when Danton, before the trial is sure, the “Committee of Public Safety”, Robespierre´s people, will not dare demand the death penalty. Since Danton believes he is untouchable.
btw youtube has a fine copy of the great film adaptation of the Polish Classic “Danton” from 1983 with Gerard Depardieu by the wonderful Andrzej Wajda, French with English subs, highly recommended:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u-b7Rtu-nuk
(as is Wajda´s 2007 film on Katyn)
If you are into leftwing radical films, any idea where I can get a copy of “Praise Marx and Pass the Ammunition”, made in 1970 starring John Thaw? Apparently it’s watchable at the BFI if you slip ’em £30 or something, but I’d like a copy and so far there hasn’t been a torrent doing the rounds, let alone a DVD.
I assume your best bet IS BFI.
I will try to look further coming week. But since knowing sources like the valuable Arsenevich Scalisto history film blog is gone and most others of that kind films from this very category are extremely difficult to find.
(Why keeping your old VCR or DVD-HD Recorder connected to your TV set is important. Disney .e.g. has announced they would stop publishing DVDs in Australia to force you subscribe Disney+. If that will become normal habit, it will have long-reaching consequences for the collective memory of visual history. What we can observe on the level of the arms and automobile industry, trying to save profit margins by ramping up aggressive “market” behaviour is as true for the entertainment industry. So, as, I think the New Yorker wrote some time ago, don´t throw away your DVD-collection. Same with books…)
Hi AG, Thanks for this. Totally agreed about books. I’ve no intention of throwing any of my library away. It’s interesting now that non-new printed books are considered in many places practically as rubbish items. My local branch of the Co-op gives them away for any size of donation, as do many smaller shops nowadays. That’s fine for me because I can occasionally find stuff I want, but it’s sad on a social level. It would be much better if people could give books to public libraries and the libraries would then make them available for borrowing. But my local municipal library is following the Co-op. They used to have a room where it was possible to play boardgames and to bring young children so that they could play with Lego (a really great resource), but now they’ve pushed all of that to the wall (literally) and made it inaccessible behind tables on which they’re offering essentially as many books as you can carry for as small a donation as you want to pay. It wouldn’t surprise me if after a few months they dump what remains in a skip.
Some sound advice from AG. A lot of people don’t realise that you don’t own downloads, you just pay for the right of access. When M$ cancelled their Ereader service in 2019 users found the books they thought they’d bought deleted. When the publishers set ‘sensitivity readers’ to edit the works of Roald Dahl anyone with his books on an e-reader found the text automatically changed to the ‘woke’ version if they wanted it or not. The scope there for an unscrupulous government (or corporation) to re-write history is obvious.
I hadn´t heard about that automatic changing to “woke” move.
wow.
Please consider booking a last minute ticket to New York City.
This Saturday brunch should be of major importance for Julian’s defense and also show how Craig’s conviction was unjustified.
https://static1.squarespace.com/static/59a4682c579fb313d6f4d700/t/646d4365d5545c00ad1eb687/1684882277822/Butcher+and+Banker+NYC+Dinner+Menu.pdf
Nothing like a good rib steak for only $145 (plus tax and tip) to make progress on a debatable legal issue. Even only the bone could help Julian dig a hole out of his cell.
Feeling a little curmudgeonly are we?
The price of the tomahawk steak you mentioned is for 2 people so probably a 40 oz ish tomahawk though it doesn’t give weights on the menu. Most of the reviews of the restaurant are mediocre at best with many pointing out that the steaks are overpriced and underdeliver in quality. They also have a dress code preferring “elegant casual” style. So collared shirts, no baseball style caps and perhaps not CM’s famous wooly jumper 😀 (even if it’s a little hot in NYC for that right now).
Alternative to a last minute trip to New York Melrose you could join in spirit. The Pope will be in attendance at the angelus tomorrow at midday which you can watch online. You could make your self a “flame grilled steak” flavour crisp sandwich (available from Aldi) and munch your way through the Angelus with a self-congratulatory feeling in support of those who have worked tirelessly to highlight the issue of USA and UK gross hypocrisy on Julian Assange’s case and campaign for his release and the prevention of a precedent that would constitute a threat to independent journalism.
Or, you know, you could just continue to be a grumpy bastard and gripe at the most inconsequential of things.
So, which part of humor don’t you understand ET?
Do call home…