9/11 Building 7 UAF engineering report continued.


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  • #50558 Reply
    Clark

    To add a link like this one:

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    If you learn the format the “a” tag can be typed in manually, but there’s less chance of mistake when using the button.
    – – – – – – – – – –

    I haven’t looked into the hijackers, but according to Sibel Edmonds Gladio B uses jihadists, so I expect it’s roughly right. Yeah, yeah, always the most fantastical story, remote controlled aircraft, I know. That’s harder than you might think – ever heard of latency? Much cheaper and more reliable to use jihadists, which as you mentioned (Mujahideen) is actually a Standing Operating Procedure for the US/UK/Saudi/Israeli alliance. It’s so bloody obvious that I’m surprised that more people don’t notice – The CIA-manipulated Mujahideen in Afghanistan, the “imminent massacre (actually of rampant jihadists) in Benghazi”, the “moderate rebels” (actually jihadists) infesting Syria; they use it over and over again, yet still the majority blame generic “Muslims”. Sigh.

    Osama bin Laden initially denied any involvement and claimed that the attacks were probably personally motivated; if he had orchestrated it he would have claimed victory.

    Osama bin Laden remained true to his faith, but his faith was Wahhabism, and being the Saudi state religion it is less a religion and more a type of religious fascism – it teaches that any non-Wahabbists are “infidels” and may be killed. But he saw that the Saudi monarchy was corrupt so he turned against it and became the enemy of Saudi Arabia and the USA; that’s why he and his organisation were chosen as the fall guys.

    See, there are jihadists and jihadists. When they invade Syria on behalf of the Gulf monarchies, Western media depict them as “rebels against the dictator Assad”, or “White Helmets”. When they run amok in Benghazi, Western media depict them as justified rebels against Gaddafi, who is planning a “massacre” which demands a no-fly zone. But when they shoot a load of geriatric cartoonists in Paris, they’re “terrorists”.

    It’s a “strategy of tension”, see? You encourage the Gulf Monarchies to indoctrinate their own kids into religious extremists, and as they grow up they just go off like firecrackers, bouncing around almost randomly. If they do something the Western alliance want, they’re “freedom fighters”, and NATO supports them with logistics and intelligence eg. Syria. But if they do something that’s unpopular with the public, label them “terrorists” instead, and use it as an excuse to increase security, abolish civil liberties, and spy on the entire population. It’s win/win, so what’s not to like?

    #50559 Reply
    Clark

    I suffered fairly heavy religious indoctrination myself (seven hours a week, isolation from my peers), so I know from experience that the fear and brainwashing didn’t start to abate until between the age of 25 and 30. The eldest 9/11 hijacker was 32, I think…

    …and what I got was nothing compared with goes on in Saudi Arabia. There, torture and murder are entertainment. Religious police drag the public into stadiums, to see women flogged or stoned to death, men having their hands or heads cut off – where do you think ISIS learned their behaviour?

    The hijackers were life-long victims. They were literally indoctrinated into suicide/mass-murder. It is the most evil, disgusting thing I have ever heard of.

    #50560 Reply
    Clark

    All these high-tech stories, of microsecond-timed radio-controlled theatrical demolition rigs that can perfectly simulate a progressive collapse, remote controlled aircraft that must suffer no latency, holograms that can bend light to disguise missiles against a bright sky, they’re all back to front.

    Human technology can’t even make a housefly. Making things that do the above is way beyond the work of man.

    The reality is far more evil. Don’t take the work of man and try to upgrade it; that’s far too difficult and the results will be unreliable. No. Take the work of God and downgrade it into a weapon. Take an infant boy who could become a doctor, a teacher or a musician and instead raise him in a closed society. Expose him to indoctrination every day of his life. Show him torture and murder by the authorities, so that he lives in perpetual fear, for aggression is a response to threat. So that he knows that even his body is owned by the power structure, cut part of his penis off, but not until he’s old enough to understand and remember. Cut him off from art, music and culture, and grossly restrict his education.

    Sorry, words fail me. The Truthers’ high-tech fantasies are a way of avoiding the truth, which is actually too evil to contemplate – human children, degraded from birth into weapons of the state.

    #50613 Reply
    Clark

    Paul, I found a transcript of the interview of Barry Jennings. I made one myself ages ago but I couldn’t find it and I couldn’t be bothered to do it all again, but now I’ve found one on-line I can post the relevant sections:

    When we reached the 6th floor, the landing that we were standing on gave way. There was an explosion and the landing gave way. And I was left there, hanging. I had to climb back up. And now I had to walk back up to the 8th floor. After getting to the 8th floor, everything was dark. It was dark and it was very, very hot. Very hot.

    – I asked Mr. Hess to test the phones as I took a fire extinguisher and broke out the windows. Once I broke out the windows, I could see outside below me. I saw police cars on fire. Buses on fire. I looked one way, the building was there. I looked the other way, it was gone.

    – I was trapped in there for several hours. I was trapped in there when both buildings came down.

    – The firefighters came. They came to the window. Because I was going to come out on the fire hose. I didn’t want to stay any longer. It was too hot. I was gonna come out on the fire hose. They came to the window and they started yelling, “Do not do that. It won’t hold you.” And then they ran away.

    – See, I didn’t know what was going on. That’s when the first tower fell. When they started running, the first tower was coming down. I had no way of knowing that.

    – Then I saw them come back. Now I saw them come back with more concern on their faces. And then they ran away again. The second tower fell. So as they turned and ran the second time, the guy said, “Don’t worry, we’ll be back for you.” And they did come back.

    – This time they came back with 10 firefighters. And they kept asking, “Where are you? We don’t know where you are.” I said, “I’m on the north side of the building.” Because when I was on the stairs, I saw “North Side.”

    – All this time, I’m hearing all types of explosions. All this time, I’m hearing explosions. And I’m thinking that maybe it’s the buses around me that were on fire, the cars that were on fire. I don’t see no . . . you know? But I’m still hearing these explosions.
    – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – –

    Note that it is not in chronological order: Jennings says he was “trapped in there for several hours”, and later he says that the firefighters came, but ran away twice as WTC2 and WTC1 collapsed. So that can’t be in chronological order, because both collapses occurred within 90 minutes of the first aircraft impact.

    Note that the reason Jennings gives for the firefighters running away is his own inference, because he says he was on the north side of the building, yet the Twin Towers were not visible from there. As he said, “See, I didn’t know what was going on. […] I had no way of knowing that.”

    So we can’t take Jennings account at face value; we have to work out what it implies:

    “After getting to the 8th floor, everything was dark.”

    So by this time the emergency lighting had failed. That time is recorded because the alarms ceased too; emergency power failed when WTC1 collapsed. So Jennings didn’t get back to the 8th floor until after the collapse of WTC1. Why was there no light from the windows? Because they were covered in dust, and the dust came from the collapses. That is confirmed by this section:

    “I took a fire extinguisher and broke out the windows. Once I broke out the windows, I could see outside below me. I saw police cars on fire. Buses on fire.”

    So he couldn’t see out until he broke the window, so the window had to be covered in dust. Outside, he saw vehicles on fire, and vehicles were set ablaze by the collapses.

    “I looked one way, the building was there. I looked the other way, it was gone.”

    It’s not clear what this means; neither of the Twin Towers were visible from the north side of WTC7, and Jennings himself confirms that he didn’t see the collapses. Maybe he had looked out of a south side window earlier between the collapse of WTC2 and WTC1 and the trauma muddled the order of events in his memory, but at face value it just doesn’t make sense.

    Note that he heard “all types of explosions”, so explosions with various different sounds, and “I’m thinking that maybe it’s the buses around me that were on fire, the cars that were on fire”, so he thought these were outside the building. He does say “I don’t see no . . . you know?”, but we know he couldn’t see out except through the window he broke. And it’s easy to tell if a sound is outside or inside because sounds outside echo around the streets. So the only “explosion” he reports inside is when the landing collapsed, but that’s also when it went dark, so that was almost certainly the collapse of WTC1 because that’s what destroyed the emergency power.

    #50617 Reply
    Clark

    Now you asked if I believed the 19 hijackers narrative, and I said I did. What if I told you that 14 of them were issued visas at the US visa office in Jeddah, the very same office that previously, had regularly issued visa to Mujahideen to train at secure military US bases, and that 12 of these visas were issued by just one consular officer?

    What if I told you that 5 of the (alleged?) 9/11 hijackers had trained at secure US military bases – flight-related bases – and two of them were Saudi Air Force pilots?

    https://www.newsweek.com/alleged-hijackers-may-have-trained-us-bases-152495

    #50674 Reply
    Paul Barbara

    @ Clark March 3, 2020 at 22:22
    Thanks for the link info, I’ll try it another time.
    Re it being hard to direct a drone, don’t believe it. It is far easier than a novice pilot (one of whom a flying school even refused to hire a Cessna to, because he was so incompetent) flying a complex large passenger aircraft into the Twins and the Pentagon. All you need is to install a homing beacon in the target building, and the plane makes a B-line for the beacon once triggered to do so.
    I repeatedly asked you to check out the video ‘Zero’, where the antics of the Patsy so-called ‘hijackers’ is shown to be so obviously arranged to make sure they are noticed, to set up a red-herring trail, the last thing real terrorists would want.
    Then there is the ‘Boeing Uninterruptible Autopilot’, ostensibly an anti-hijack system, but it can obviously be used to actually hijack an aircraft (like MH 370 almost certainly was). And the accuracy of drones has been all too clearly proven by the thousands of drone assassination missions (though unlike the Pentagon and Twin Towers, huge buildings, the assassination drones often hit the wrong targets (the targets being people, who are not generally sporting a homing beacon).

    #50675 Reply
    Paul Barbara

    @ Clark March 3, 2020 at 23:10
    ‘…holograms that can bend light to disguise missiles against a bright sky…’
    ‘The Rochester Digital Cloak: A New Age of Invisibility’:

    I know about Mind Control, I have read a considerable amount on the CIA’s MK-Ultra Program.
    But read about ‘Operation Northwoods’, never put into practice, though it was signed off on by all the Joint Chiefs of Staff, because JFK ordered Robert McNamara to block it; but it proves that even back in 1963 they had drone capability.

    #50676 Reply
    Paul Barbara

    @ Clark March 7, 2020 at 02:20
    ‘…What if I told you that 5 of the (alleged?) 9/11 hijackers had trained at secure US military bases – flight-related bases – and two of them were Saudi Air Force pilots?’
    I would agree with you. Would you agree with me, that the alleged pilot of the alleged plane that allegedly hit the Pentagon had been judged so incompetent that a flight school had refused to let him hire a Cessna?

    #50677 Reply
    Clark

    Note that the cloaking only works when looking at the screen. The cloak would need everyone in New York to be wearing special glasses, or a massive screen fitted over the whole of the city.

    #50678 Reply
    Clark

    And yes I did know about Northwoods.

    #50679 Reply
    Clark

    Drones have seconds of latency, which is a time delay between the sending of the control signal and the drone’s response. This is why drones need to be autonomous; they need to continue doing what they were set to do for a few seconds without instant intervention from the ‘pilot’.

    That is also why the missiles drones fire have targetting capability. The target is locked into the missile’s computer before the missile is fired. The missile then guides itself to whatever it was locked on to, without intervention from the drone or its ‘pilot’.

    Jihadists are cheaper and more reliable, especially in 2001.

    Of course jihadists think of themselves as holy warriors, not terrorists, and they have been brainwashed from birth that (1) if their mission is God’s will, God will help them accomplish it and (2) they can commit any sin before a suicide attack and it will be forgiven for their self-sacrifice. The hijackers behaved exactly like jihadists.

    #50680 Reply
    Clark

    I do agree that that claim was made. I think the state department just arranged to have some of the hijackers names swapped around in the reports of the investigations. The most effective tricks are always the simplest.

    The Western US/UK/Israeli/Saudi/NATO alliance is still using jihadists. Jihadists infiltrated into Benghazi provoked an aggressive response from Gaddafi; this was spun as a threat to massacre civilians, and so a no-fly zone was pushed through the UN, and Libya was obliterated and turned into a jihadist playground and recruiting zone. We know from the Israeli press that Israeli military field hospitals have been treating jihadists attacking Syrian forces. ISIS has a jihadist ideology, funded by the Gulf monarchies as approved of by the Clintons.

    The thrust of the 9/11 cover-up was to disguise this Western etc. exploitation of jihadism. That was the point of the torture programme; to extract false confessions that pointed to every Muslim organisation under the sun, scramble the data, muddy the waters, and permanently discredit any future testimony from those detainees. The obvious implication is that the Western etc. alliance intends to continue using jihadists.

    It’s a massive scandal and it persists in plain sight. It is the common feature running through all the NATO/Israel/Saudi wars. The “terrorists” are “our side”, yet no one ever seems to notice.

    #50681 Reply
    Paul Barbara

    @ Clark March 7, 2020 at 02:07
    ‘…– When we reached the 6th floor, the landing that we were standing on gave way. There was an explosion and the landing gave way. And I was left there, hanging. I had to climb back up. And now I had to walk back up to the 8th floor. After getting to the 8th floor, everything was dark. It was dark and it was very, very hot. Very hot…’

    Fact remains, he said when he looked one way the building was there, looked back and it was gone. Only two buildings collapsed, apart from WTC 7, so he was obviously talking about WTC 2.
    WTC 7 was a fair distance from WTC 2, and was 47 stories high. To my knowledge, no building on the far side of WTC 7 (away from the other WTC buildings) was seriously damaged, especially before WTC 7 itself collapsed.
    here is a ground plan of the WTC complex – note how far away WTC 7 is from WTC 2, the first building to collapse:
    https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:911_-_FEMA_-_WTC_impacts_(graphic).svg
    Now if they were on the north side, how come buses and police cars were burning? It’s plain from pictures of the debris exploding from WTC 2 that it could hardly reach over WTC 7 to set vehicles alight on the north side of WTC 7 (assuming that that is on the opposite side of WTC 7 from the other WTC buildings). Another point: how on earth can you explain the stairs being knocked down, meaning a massive chunk of debris would have had to travel right through the building, from south to north?

    – I asked Mr. Hess to test the phones as I took a fire extinguisher and broke out the windows. Once I broke out the windows, I could see outside below me. I saw police cars on fire. Buses on fire. I looked one way, the building was there. I looked the other way, it was gone.

    It would make much more sense if they were on the south side; perhaps Jennings saw a sign pointing to the north side.

    – I was trapped in there for several hours. I was trapped in there when both buildings came down.

    That’s my understanding, too. In other words, there had been no debris to break up the stairs, as both Towers had been still standing when the stairs ‘exploded’.

    – The firefighters came. They came to the window. Because I was going to come out on the fire hose. I didn’t want to stay any longer. It was too hot. I was gonna come out on the fire hose. They came to the window and they started yelling, “Do not do that. It won’t hold you.” And then they ran away.

    Fire fighters don’t frit easily, especially to leave people in danger. It makes much more sense if, as Jennings said, the first time was when WTC 2 came down, and the second time when WTC 1 came down. He didn’t see either collapse, but presumably the firefighters told him after they had rescued him. If it wasn’t because of the Twins falling, what explanation do you have of them running off?
    And if they were on the far side of WTC 7, then it is obvious the stairs could not have been hit by debris from the still standing Towers.
    The reason Jennings couldn’t see out of the windows could well be because of the explosions inside WTC 7, including the stairs they had been on.
    How you keep disbelieving Jennings claims to have heard multiple explosions, can only be because it doesn’t fit with what you claim happened. Just about anyone could tell an explosion from rubble crashing into something. And the ‘very, very hot’ business would make perfect sense if nanothermite had been used; just like the extreme heat which caused many to throw themselves out of the Twin Tower windows. What else would cause the room they were in to be ‘very very hot? He doesn’t mention any fire, on the stairs or in the room.

    – See, I didn’t know what was going on. That’s when the first tower fell. When they started running, the first tower was coming down. I had no way of knowing that.

    Exactly. So did he make up the story about them running away twice, once when WTC 2 came down, then again when WTC 1 came down? Or does it make a lot more sense if the firemen later explained that to him?

    – Then I saw them come back. Now I saw them come back with more concern on their faces. And then they ran away again. The second tower fell. So as they turned and ran the second time, the guy said, “Don’t worry, we’ll be back for you.” And they did come back.

    – This time they came back with 10 firefighters. And they kept asking, “Where are you? We don’t know where you are.” I said, “I’m on the north side of the building.” Because when I was on the stairs, I saw “North Side.”

    – All this time, I’m hearing all types of explosions. All this time, I’m hearing explosions. And I’m thinking that maybe it’s the buses around me that were on fire, the cars that were on fire. I don’t see no . . . you know? But I’m still hearing these explosions.
    – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – –

    Note that it is not in chronological order: Jennings says he was “trapped in there for several hours”, and later he says that the firefighters came, but ran away twice as WTC2 and WTC1 collapsed. So that can’t be in chronological order, because both collapses occurred within 90 minutes of the first aircraft impact.

    Why is that not in chronological order? The first appearance of the firefighters is not timed.
    That 90 minutes elapsed (accepting your timing) between the alleged aircraft hitting WTC 1 and both having collapsed fits with Jennings’ guesstimate of how long they were trapped.
    The actual time between WTC 2 and WTC 1 collapses was less than 30 minutes.
    WTC 1 was on fire from the ‘alleged’ plane impact before Jennings and mate entered the WTC 7.

    Note that the reason Jennings gives for the firefighters running away is his own inference, because he says he was on the north side of the building, yet the Twin Towers were not visible from there. As he said, “See, I didn’t know what was going on. […] I had no way of knowing that.”

    So we can’t take Jennings account at face value; we have to work out what it implies:

    – “After getting to the 8th floor, everything was dark.”

    So by this time the emergency lighting had failed. That time is recorded because the alarms ceased too; emergency power failed when WTC1 collapsed. So Jennings didn’t get back to the 8th floor until after the collapse of WTC1. Why was there no light from the windows? Because they were covered in dust, and the dust came from the collapses. That is confirmed by this section:

    – “I took a fire extinguisher and broke out the windows. Once I broke out the windows, I could see outside below me. I saw police cars on fire. Buses on fire.”

    So he couldn’t see out until he broke the window, so the window had to be covered in dust. Outside, he saw vehicles on fire, and vehicles were set ablaze by the collapses.

    – “I looked one way, the building was there. I looked the other way, it was gone.”

    It’s not clear what this means; neither of the Twin Towers were visible from the north side of WTC7, and Jennings himself confirms that he didn’t see the collapses. Maybe he had looked out of a south side window earlier between the collapse of WTC2 and WTC1 and the trauma muddled the order of events in his memory, but at face value it just doesn’t make sense.

    Note that he heard “all types of explosions”, so explosions with various different sounds, and “I’m thinking that maybe it’s the buses around me that were on fire, the cars that were on fire”, so he thought these were outside the building. He does say “I don’t see no . . . you know?”, but we know he couldn’t see out except through the window he broke. And it’s easy to tell if a sound is outside or inside because sounds outside echo around the streets. So the only “explosion” he reports inside is when the landing collapsed, but that’s also when it went dark, so that was almost certainly the collapse of WTC1 because that’s what destroyed the emergency power.

    You assume that is what destroyed the emergency power, but I would suggest it was the ‘multiple explosions’ which caused it.

    #50682 Reply
    Paul Barbara

    @ Clark March 8, 2020 at 00:58
    I am fully aware that the Jihadi headchoppers are Western proxy mercenaries, particularly in Libya and Syria, and many have been transferred into Afghanistan, where they continue being armed by mysterious helicopters (little doubt whose helicopters they are; they wouldn’t be Russian, as Russia genuinely does fight the Jihadis). Favorite would be Yank choppers (I don’t know if they have a base in Uzbekistan at present, but that would be a likely base for resupply if they do).

    #50684 Reply
    Paul Barbara

    Here is a pretty clear picture showing no Boeing hit the Pentagon:

    Pentagon on 9/11, before the collapse. The so called 'Entrance Hole'.

    Publiée par Brian Rogers Sr. sur Samedi 24 février 2018

    #50710 Reply
    Clark

    WTC 7, Michael Hess Calls For Help 02:51

    On the next one, listen to the audio very carefully from the beginning, at around 0:09, up to and especially at 0:30 to 0:32…

    WTC7 Around 4PM: Nelson & DeMentri/WCBS-TV — 3rd Raw Version from NIST (Enhanced Quality) 07:22

    Paul, this is really annoying; there’s 29 minute video (28:59 actually) that I want to show you, but CBS are blocking it on copyright. It’s by cameraman Mark Laganga. I have a full copy; he visits WTC7’s lobby between the collapses of WTC2 and WTC1. Below is an excerpt:

    WTC7 at ~10:10am: Mark LaGanga/CBS News — Raw Ftg. from NIST (As-released Quality) 05:38

    MrKoeneg1985 has a good collection.
    – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – –

    “It makes much more sense if, as Jennings said, the first time was when WTC 2 came down, and the second time when WTC 1 came down.”

    No, because Jennings had to smash the window before he could see out, so it was already covered in dust, so WTC1 had already collapsed. Check the video of Hess at that window shouting for help, it’s definitely round the back of the building somewhere, in narrow streets between standing buildings, not facing the Twin Towers’ site, and you can see the dust on the windows. Plus cars and buses were on fire, and that happened around WTC7 when WTC1 collapsed. And the emergency power had failed, and I think that is known to have happened when WTC1 collapsed.

    There were all sorts of fires and explosions in the streets, so the firefighters probably ran off to tend to some of those.

    “how on earth can you explain the stairs being knocked down, meaning a massive chunk of debris would have had to travel right through the building, from south to north?”

    Yep, I think that’s exactly what happened, or falling debris smashed some of WTC7’s perimeter into its core. The collapse of WTC2 was easily capable of that with the huge perimeter sections tumbling away outward and falling so far, and all manner of debris flung outward at the crush zone between the falling top part and the standing bottom part. You can see the top of WTC7 getting hit and damaged on the following video; lower floors would have been even more vulnerable.

    WTC1 Collapse & WTC7 hit by Debris – Unkn./ABC – Raw Ftg. from NIST (Enhanced/Audio Replaced)

    #50711 Reply
    Clark

    “…as Russia genuinely does fight the Jihadis”

    The jihadists have been sent against the Soviet Block and Arab Socialism since the Quincy Agreement in 1945 between the US and Saudi Arabia; convergence of interests. It is obvious that the Gulf Monarchies would feel threatened by Ba’athism and pan-Arabism.

    #50713 Reply
    Clark

    “How you keep disbelieving Jennings claims to have heard multiple explosions…”

    No, I accept Jennings’ claim; he said he thought they were cars and buses.

    As to the “don’t look down” comment that a firefighter made to him; from the lobby you could see down the escalators – so maybe he wasn’t meant to see a team down there rigging explosives to the columns?

    #50714 Reply
    Clark

    I looked at the Hess video again; that window appears to be above the loading ramp that leads from the street down to the sub-level.

    #50717 Reply
    Clark

    You can see that part of WTC7 from about 5:23 onwards in the Nelson and DiMentri video. At 6:03 you can see a sign saying Barclay St, so it must be on the corner of Barclay St and West Broadway, so that window faces north. By the time of Nelson/DiMentri that whole floor is on fire, probably because the broken window ventilated it.

    #50718 Reply
    Clark

    oilempireus has a section debunking “no airliner at the Pentagon” by showing early ‘photos before the facade collapsed. I find their argument convincing; there was an airliner.

    #50719 Reply
    Clark

    …with a Saudi military pilot I’d say, by the way it was flown. ‘Course the US were forever training the like, they all came through the Jeddah bureau, just ask Springmann…

    #50720 Reply
    Clark

    US military training of Saudi combat personnel was part of the Quincy Agreement – for a secure supply of oil, the US would build an airfield to protect the oil fields, supply to Saudi Arabia military aid and military training, and undertake never to oppose the spread of Wahhabism.

    #50721 Reply
    Clark

    So the US, supposedly global champion and guardian of democracy, does in the Middle East and Central Asia very much what it does in South America; it props up undemocratic, monarchical and/or religious regimes, and attacks the relatively more sectarian, democratic ones by exploiting the local extremists, be they drug runners, religious fanatics or both.

    #50867 Reply
    Paul Barbara

    @ Clark March 10, 2020 at 01:21
    You haven’t given a link. When I searched, all I found was your comment here.
    How do you explain the intact post in the center of the opening, and the intact floor?
    The US military’s top expert on photographic analysis has stated openly that no Boeing went into that hole (or words to that effect).
    A ‘Black Box’ from the alleged Boeing was given to investigators, on the assumption that they would not be able to decipher it. They screwed up, the investigators did manage to interpret it, and it showed that it’s approach was too high to hit the Pentagon, although the record stopped before the plane allegedly hit the Pentagon.
    Barbara Honneger made a very good video, ‘Behind the Smoke Curtain – The 9/11 Pentagon Attack’.
    It states a drone painted in airline colours was shot down by a US helicopter over the Pentagon lawn, near the helipad, to the left of the alleged Boeing entry.

    #50868 Reply
    Paul Barbara

    @ Clark March 10, 2020 at 01:47
    I am aware of the Jeddah Consulate, purely to provide ‘Red Herring’ Pattsies.
    The only reason the US is tolerating Wahhabism is because it is usuful to them, they can and do use them as proxy mercenaries.
    Our governments are so blatantly evil nowadays, it is really surprising the people in general don’t see through them. The blame lies with the disgusting MSM.

    #51093 Reply
    Clark

    “You haven’t given a link.”

    Oil Empire US Home Page.
    – Pentagon Distraction.
    – Pentagon Photos.
    – Pentagon Hole.

    “The US military’s top expert on photographic analysis…”

    If that’s Stubblebine, he’s a real character! “Men Who Stare at Goats”. The world is a richer place for including the likes of Stubblebine.

    #51095 Reply
    Paul Barbara

    @ Clark March 23, 2020 at 11:28
    ‘..If that’s Stubblebine, he’s a real character! “Men Who Stare at Goats”….’
    But you do not address the fact his last job was as head of Military Photo-reconnaissance.
    And may I take it you don’t believe in telepathy, by your dismissal of Stubblebine?
    Thanks for links, I’ll check them out.

    By the way, if you think Stubblebine is odd, what about General Patton?:
    Patton who famously said he loved war told of a number of past lives in the military.

    He described being a Greek Hoplite fighting the Persians under Darius. He helped smash the Persian navy and then laid siege to Tyre. The walls fell after five months as Patton and his fellow Hoplites stormed the city in 332 BC.
    Patton died fighting for the Roman Republic in the Middle East killed by a number of arrows in his neck.
    The general also remembered being stationed in Langres, France — as a Roman legionnaire in Caesar’s X Legion.
    When Patton was a young adult, he was kicked by a horse, who broke his leg in three places. Close to death from his wounds, Patton had a vision of his death as a Viking raider — where a vision appeared to him on the battlefield, offering to take him to the Viking afterlife.
    Many times in World War I and then in World War II, Patton would claim to know his way around towns and battlefields which he had never been before. Patton believed that this came from his time as a French knight fighting the English under Edward III, most notably at Crecy. The 1346 Battle of Crecy saw the English crush the French in a very lopsided fight. He died when he was impaled by an English lance.
    As a child, Patton claimed to have fought alongside John the Blind of Behemis, who also met his death at Crecy in 1346.
    During the Hundred Years’ War he fought with King Henry V at Agincourt in 1415.
    Patton once described fighting on ships as he freed captured slaves or prisoners of war, fired into the enemy at point-blank range during a storm, or even was hanged as a pirate or privateer, describing feeling a rope around his neck as the red deck (presumably blood-stained) was set aflame.
    Again pitted against the English, though this time his loyalties were less to a nation than to the House of Stuart. Patton was a Scottish Highlander during the third English Civil War, around 1650, supporting the Stuarts after the death of Charles I.
    Patton described “riding with Murat”. Joachim Murat was one of Napoleon’s marshals. Murat was one of the most capable cavalry officers and leaders in service to the French Emperor. He doesn’t specify his role with Murat, but the marshal was pivotal at battles like Jena and the invasion of Russia in 1812. When the Allies left North Africa to invade Sicily, British General Sir Harold Alexander told Patton that if had been alive in the 19th Century, Napoleon would have made him a marshal — to which Patton replied: “But I did.” (Quora).

    #51099 Reply
    Paul Barbara

    @ Clark March 23, 2020 at 11:28
    A lot of heavyweight clutter in the way of a ground-level entry (at least four giant cable reel holders, and something that looks like a heavyweight ladder) apart from the IMPOSSIBILITY of flying a plane at such high speed at literally ground level.

    #51115 Reply
    Clark

    I think Stubblebine and his alternative therapist wife are great characters, but I am certain that the military waste very little time staring at goats. Though maybe they did back in the ’60s when some crazy stuff went on; faked UFO reports, CIA acid gurus and adolescents blowing up nuclear reactors in the desert. I’d heard of Patton but didn’t know he was such an obsessive war nutter.

    Telepathy? I think there are deep reasons why we can’t know each other’s thoughts, like we can’t foresee the future. Links between minds seem likely to exhibit quantum-like properties such as indeterminacy and complementarity that preclude unambiguous communication.

    #51116 Reply
    Clark

    The corporate media indeed drives me to distraction, especially telly. Endless pompous, grandiose waffle that on the rare occasion it can’t quite avoid mentioning a genuine issue immediately finds a way to skirt round it or just blatantly changes the subject to something far more sensational.

    #51117 Reply
    Clark

    I expect it was just a hijacked airliner with a Saudi military suicide pilot. Using jihadists would be the easiest way of doing 9/11. And the cheapest. By far the most reliable. Plausibly deniable too; what’s not to like?

    #51196 Reply
    Paul Barbara

    ‘Lawyers Committee Change.org petition nears 10,000 mark thanks to you!’:
    https://www.change.org/p/support-legal-action-on-9-11-at-last/u/26162333?
    Update, and for those unaware.

    #51201 Reply
    Clark

    It’s a shame the Lawyers’ Committee have pinned their colours to the A&E’s Twin Tower demolition mast. All but completely neutralised.

    #51889 Reply
    Paul Barbara

    ‘BREAKING: 9/11 Families, Experts Mount Unprecedented Challenge to NIST in New [email protected];
    https://www.ae911truth.org/news/677-9-11-families-experts-mount-unprecedented-challenge-to-nist-in-new-filing
    Latest update; nothing too exciting.

    #51905 Reply
    Clark

    Glad to see you posting again Paul; I was worried that the covid might have got you. I don’t seem to have had it yet.

    Exhibits B and E are interesting. André Rousseau makes the common mistake of claiming that roofline acceleration at around g proves free-fall, but his interpretation of seismic data seems right. Exhibit E disproves the common fallacy that all the steel debris was shipped off to China before inspection.

    The evidence for WTC7 explosives remains ambiguous. The partially evaporated steel debris suggests thermite, which does not explode. Many videos record WTC7’s collapse without the sound of explosions. Other videos suggest that sound has been muted, or the video edited, at collapse initiation, which suggests a cover-up of explosion sounds. But I would expect far more witness testimony of explosive sounds at collapse initiation had explosives been detonated.

    From the A&E9/11Truth page linked:

    “I was sixteen years old when my father was killed in the North Tower. In the past year, I’ve come to learn much more about his murder”

    It is sad that A&E9/11Truth get people’s hopes up like this, because demolition of WTC7 is not in itself evidence for pre-rigged demolition of the Twin Towers.

    #51906 Reply
    Clark

    Paul, these breathing exercises may be useful:

    Video: the ICU breathing exercises that might just save your life

    #51932 Reply
    Clark

    Me at 13:33 – “André Rousseau […] his interpretation of seismic data seems right”

    I take that back. The first wave starting at around 17 seconds on the graph definitely starts small, and builds up to its peak at around 19 seconds. Explosives would start suddenly and tail off.

    #51945 Reply
    Paul Barbara

    I will get around to addressing your comments, but I just want to get this First Responder treatment down before I go out (shopping).
    ‘9/11 workers treated in Cuba fear political attack’:
    https://cuba-solidarity.org.uk/news/article/1096/911-workers-treated-in-cuba-fear-political-attack
    The three needed treatment, but could not get it from their insurance or the government. Michael Moore took them to Cuba where they were treated free (for his film ‘Sicko’ – I’ve no time for Michael Moore, after the way he used Mark Taylor in ‘Bowling for Columbine’, then didn’t lift a finger of support when Mark was persecuted by Big Pharma and the police).

    Not the sort of info the MSM and PTB like out there, showing the ‘tough titty’ ‘your problem’ approach of the US and the humanitarianism of Cuba.

    #51946 Reply
    Clark

    I don’t know about Mark Taylor. As for Moore, hey, no one’s perfect.

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