Ukraine (Date: Nov. 2023)


Latest News Forums Discussion Forum Ukraine (Date: Nov. 2023)

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  • #94595 Reply
    ET

      The cult of democracy Tatyana. I can guarantee that people in the west will rationalise that however plausible and knowledgeable Putin may have come across Russia is not a democracy. Given that, because we in the west are democracies, whatever we do and advocate for is right and everyone else is wrong. Democracy gives us the right (even duty) to tell everyone else what they must do. I am sick to death of that fucking argument. Thankfully the rest of the world, like 7/8 of the population are waking up to that.

      I tried today to figure out the difference between Russia’s foreign agent act, the USA foreign agent registration act and Hungary’s new similar act for which the EU will try take them to court. I couldn’t really see much difference other than Russia and Hungary have incorporated more modern mediums (social media etc). But hey, we are a democracy and you’re not so we are right.

      Reminds me of an Irish quip:

      Whilst I’m not always right, I’m never wrong.

      #94597 Reply
      Tatyana

        ET
        You have now perfectly described what is still not an established term in my part of the world. Russian diplomacy uses the word ‘arrogance’. I defined it for myself as ‘imposition and intolerance’. Let me explain: each nation develops locally in its own unique conditions, that is, history, mentality, traditions, and, importantly, the advantages provided by climate and resources – this determines the vector of economic development. I.e. if you’ve got gas, you may trade it. If you’re an islander you may build ships. You just cannot have ‘one size fits all’ dress for every country in the world.

        Westerners believe that if something worked well for them in their conditions, then it certainly suits everyone in all conditions. This manifests itself simply in every little thing, a stupid preposition, supposedly everyone should want to reshape themselves to their model.

        Personally, I am not against many good things, but excuse me, for example, how could Russia repeat the history of the United States? Should we start importing black slaves today so that tomorrow we can run around the world shaking our economic superiority in front of the noses of other nations?
        Or will someone in Europe take the initiative to transfer a couple of African countries to us as colonies so that we can catch up with some London or Brussels in terms of GDP?
        Hey, we in our turn could propose to London or Brussels to sacrifice 20 million people in the war with Hitler. I think that today they would have been more concerned with replenishing the population and producing goods, than with democracy.
        walk in my shoes, as they say

        #94599 Reply
        Jack

          Funny how the west whine about Tucker not posing any critical questions, sigh…yeah like we have not enough of a critical view of Russia in the west?! I live in in europe and I haver never heard a positive news coming from Russia in the msm, everywhing how miniscule it may be is twisted by the msm to something negative. Tucker simply tried to show the different side of it. How can that be considered bad?! The obvious purpose by Tucker was to let the other side give their view on things, that is appparently a felony in the west nowadays. And just look how pathetic the west treat the interview:
          Oh look at Tucker’s hairstyle
          Oh listen to that whiny voice of Tucker

          I mean what the hell is this? The whole of the west have become some asylum/safe-space area where facts are not allowed to enter!

          And then the criticism against Putin for spending some time presenting historical facts, the west are not used to that because they have no clue about the history regarding Ukraine.

          And I can say all that even though I have not even seen the interview and do not plan to see the interview nor do I support the russian invasion. Still, one must live in the real world and deal with the reality for crying out loud.

          The western elite still live in a bubble, I always thought that the west would change their ways eventually on Ukraine, but no, they just keep digging themselves deeper and deeper down the dirt now 2 year into the war, like, they their prestige keeps them from change the lane and instead accelerate the other, wrong way even though people on the side scream and point toward the right way. Absolut nutcases!

          #94600 Reply
          AG

            JACK

            following might be the next step, attempts to raise alarms in the tradition of “Russiagate” fakes on European soil:

            “Sleeper cells and fake news: Germany, France and Poland join forces against Russia
            The three EU countries fell victim to Russia’s same destabilization strategy. France’s Foreign Minister Stéphane Séjourné has now announced a new collaboration.” (German daily, Berliner Zeitung)

            https://archive.is/FUq15

            The most egregious fact about this: The very same media which accuse others of “fake news” (I detest the word “fake” by now. I almost never use it) are the ones producing the fakes on a constant basis. And no one seems to notice.
            It´s astonishing.

            #94601 Reply
            AG

              …”The western elite still live in a bubble, I always thought that the west would change their ways eventually on Ukraine”…

              ….Stoltenberg said just yesterday, I think, that he “fears” a decade-long conflict between NATO and RU…

              So, no easing by the EU elites.
              Stolti is funny: He always spills the truth 1 or 2 years after the fact.

              p.s. I have looked into the interview only in part. What I saw was not as bad as I had expected (applying a very low standard).

              Putin basically does the job our journalits should do: He speaks out the most obvious facts about the West.

              I would assume he too was initally surprised by the EU doubling-down so vigorously and totally ignoring its own interests.
              Its shameful: To see Scholz all cuddly with Biden whilst that very state is slowly destroying German industry as openly as possible. And he just keeps a straight face. Just amazing…

              #94602 Reply
              AG

                frm. German chancellor Merkel´s military advisor, Erich Vad, had refused to give interviews for over a year after insults in 2022.
                This is his first now since.

                He speaks truth in some passages, considering the endless bullshit from Germans usually.

                But of course: Any action by the US, NATO or the EU are by design legal and benign. Any action by RU is not.
                If he agues to cooperate with RU this happens only on the grounds of realist views which however only apply to RU which is just not as cultured and civilized as we are (he wouldn´t say that but that´s the ideology behind it.)
                But its worthwhile to read the text.

                He makes it clear:

                • That there was a contract between UKR and RU regarding Crimea.
                • That RU regards it necessary to protect its Western borders an that we must respect that.
                • That Merkel and Sarkozy knew this in 2008 and that NATO was ignoring this knowing full well what that would mean.
                • That this war is no stalemate.

                He does express a few “unpleasant” facts but only between the lines.

                “Erich Vad in an interview: “The fate of Ukraine will be decided in Washington and Moscow”
                Erich Vad was Merkel’s most important military advisor. He criticizes Germany’s Ukraine policy. There is a risk of chaos like the withdrawal from Afghanistan, he says in an interview.”

                https://archive.is/07jog

                #94663 Reply
                AG

                  German government leaks Fall 2022, concerning the fight “against disinformation” and the UKR war:
                  p.s. the screenshots of the actually leaked documents embedded into the articles naturally cannot be machine-translated.

                  leak part 1
                  “Document leak: How the federal government is working on a “narrative alignment” on the Ukraine war – Part 1”
                  https://www-nachdenkseiten-de.translate.goog/?p=88618&_x_tr_sl=auto&_x_tr_tl=en&_x_tr_hl=de&_x_tr_pto=wapp

                  leak part 2
                  “Document leak: How the federal government is working on a “narrative alignment” on the Ukraine war – Part 2”
                  https://www-nachdenkseiten-de.translate.goog/?p=88771&_x_tr_sl=auto&_x_tr_tl=en&_x_tr_hl=de&_x_tr_pto=wapp

                  #94688 Reply
                  Tatyana

                    Re: Carlson-Putin interview
                    For those who cannot spend 2 hours watching the interview this may be helpful. Tucker gave his impressions at the forum in Dubai. More interesting is the start, he says US government tried to prevent him from doing the interview 🙂
                    https://youtu.be/mMXikZM_O80

                    Another way to quickly get acquainted with the interview is to upload the transcript to the ChatGPT.
                    https://chat.openai.com/auth/login
                    I used the transcript from Kremlin website
                    http://en.kremlin.ru/events/president/news/73411

                    The first longer piece of Putin’s history lesson was shortened like this:

                    “Putin traced the origins of Russia and Ukraine, highlighting key events such as the establishment of the Russian state in 862 and the Baptism of Russia in 988.
                    He noted the fragmentation of Rus and its vulnerability to invasion by Genghis Khan’s empire.
                    He discussed the gravitation of southern Russian lands towards the Grand Duchy of Lithuania, leading to their incorporation into the Polish-Lithuanian state.
                    He mentioned Polish efforts to “Polonize” the population and the emergence of the term “Ukrainian” from its original meaning of border dwellers.”

                    Quite digestible, isn’t it? 🙂
                    And that is how the ChatGPT bot shortens the passage about Poland:

                    “Before WWII, Poland’s collaboration with Hitler led to the partitioning of Czechoslovakia.
                    Despite resisting Hitler’s demands for the Danzig Corridor, Poland’s refusal prompted Hitler to attack, starting the war on September 1, 1939.
                    The USSR sought Poland’s permission to transit troops to aid Czechoslovakia but was refused.
                    After the war, Poland lost western Ukraine to the USSR under the Molotov-Ribbentrop Pact.
                    Poland received compensation with German territories.”

                    #94672 Reply
                    AG

                      A survey with 1000 people each questioned in several countries:

                      “Munich Security Conference: Russia is no longer a main threat to the Germans
                      People in Germany no longer perceive Russia as the main threat, a new report from the Munich Security Conference shows. Which problems are more important?”

                      I don´t take such surveys seriously but it´s still telling since they did the survey everywhere – except Russia, of course.
                      But B_ICS is included.
                      Berliner Zeitung reporting
                      https://archive.is/GZrma

                      #94673 Reply
                      ET

                        Charter of Fundamental Rights of the European Union.

                        Article 11

                        Freedom of expression and information

                        1.   Everyone has the right to freedom of expression. This right shall include freedom to hold opinions and to receive and impart information and ideas without interference by public authority and regardless of frontiers.

                        2.   The freedom and pluralism of the media shall be respected.

                        What exactly does “regardless of frontiers” mean? Has there been any ECJ rulings on this already? Why are there not multiple cases before the ECJ related to this? Is the use of the terms disinformation/misinformation an attempt to reclassify the meaning of information in terms of the fundamental rights.

                        #94682 Reply
                        AG

                          A 2-part German summary of the peace talks in spring 2022, based on the various public statements available and on what we know by now:

                          “The unwanted chance for peace in Istanbul in spring 2022 – Part 1”
                          https://www-nachdenkseiten-de.translate.goog/?p=110970&_x_tr_sl=auto&_x_tr_tl=en&_x_tr_hl=de&_x_tr_pto=wapp

                          “The unwanted chance for peace in Istanbul in spring 2022 – Part 2”
                          https://www-nachdenkseiten-de.translate.goog/?p=111011&_x_tr_sl=auto&_x_tr_tl=en&_x_tr_hl=de&_x_tr_pto=wapp

                          #94696 Reply
                          Tatyana

                            AG,
                            The ChatCPT bot suggests the summary for your part1 link:

                            “The article provides a detailed analysis of the missed opportunities for peace negotiations in the Ukraine conflict, particularly focusing on the negotiations held in Istanbul in March 2022.
                            It criticizes the role of Western intervention, particularly by the United States and Britain, in preventing a peaceful resolution to the conflict.
                            The author argues that the historical context of the conflict, including the events leading up to the war in 2014, is often overlooked.
                            It cites evidence suggesting that the US and NATO have been actively involved in supporting Ukraine against Russia, with the goal of weakening Russia’s position in the region.
                            The article also highlights the role of former German Chancellor Gerhard Schröder and former Israeli Prime Minister Naftali Bennett in attempting to mediate peace negotiations, but suggests that their efforts were hindered by Western interference.
                            Overall, the article presents a critical perspective on the role of the West in perpetuating the conflict in Ukraine.”

                            and for the second part:

                            “The article criticizes historian Klaus Bachmann’s claims about the Ukraine conflict, providing evidence to counter his arguments.
                            It refutes Bachmann’s assertion that Ukraine already had security guarantees, citing statements from Ukrainian negotiators in March 2022 proposing new guarantees.
                            It also challenges Bachmann’s claim that Ukraine did not want to join NATO, citing historical evidence to the contrary.
                            Furthermore, the article discusses the impact of NATO’s eastward expansion on Russian security concerns and emphasizes the importance of recognizing Russia’s perspective.
                            It also critiques Bachmann’s view that a peace solution can only come through the collapse of a warring party, presenting alternative expert opinions advocating for negotiated settlements.
                            Overall, the article offers a concise analysis of the Ukraine conflict, challenging Bachmann’s assertions and providing alternative viewpoints on the path to peace.”


                            Nice tool to both translate and shorten the text. I find it very useful. Great help.

                            #94702 Reply
                            Tatyana

                              Putin’s interview with Carlson got more than 200 million views on Twitter
                              https://twitter.com/TuckerCarlson/status/1755734526678925682

                              I thought that someone might be interested in knowing Putin’s impressions of this. He talked to Zarubin.
                              Video and Russian transcript here
                              http://www.kremlin.ru/events/president/news/73457

                              (By the way, the Russian IT company Yandex has a voice-over translating service for any video from open sources, such as YouTube or Vimeo. Perhaps your country also has similar online services. As we are on the Internet, so why not use what they invent for us?)
                              I’ll translate and shorten this via ChatGPT.
                              https://chat.openai.com

                              “P. Zarubin asks V. Putin about the reaction of Western leaders to his interview with Tucker Carlson, where they discussed the special operation in Ukraine.
                              Putin disagrees with the distortion of his words, stating he did not talk about a possible NATO attack.
                              He explains that the main reason for the operation* was the violation of the Minsk agreements and attacks on Donbass.
                              Putin regrets not starting actions earlier due to trust in Western leaders.”

                              __________

                              ( * actually Putin used ‘trigger event’. )

                              “P. Zarubin asks Putin about criticism of Tucker Carlson’s interview and the possibility of sanctions or arrest for Carlson.
                              Putin denies intimidating Carlson and discusses Carlson’s approach, suggesting judgment should be left to viewers.
                              Regarding sanctions, Putin mentions Assange but notes anything is possible in today’s America.
                              As for a follow-up conversation, Putin says Carlson stuck to his plan.
                              Putin also comments on Blinken’s public statements regarding his ancestors fleeing Russia, suggesting they could lead to embarrassment.”

                              __________

                              ( *Interestingly, Blinken said his grandfather fled Russia, escaping from Pogroms, as he was a Jew. Putin said they have archives: Blinken’s relative was born in Poltava and then moved to Kiev. This is embarrassing, because either those were Ukrainian Pogroms, or Kiev is Russia. One cannot have both true at the same time. Also, Blinken’s relative moved to USA before the first recorded Pogrom happened. )

                              “P. Zarubin raises concerns about German Foreign Minister Annalena Berbock’s grandfather’s Nazi past* and its implications for Germany’s political landscape.
                              Putin comments on historical events like pogroms, highlighting resistance efforts. He also criticizes the exploitation of climate fears by European politicians, like Berbock, for their own agenda despite increased coal usage in Germany.
                              Putin criticizes German Foreign Minister Annalena Berbock for her hostile stance towards Russia and what he sees as neglect of Germany’s economic interests.
                              He believes it’s unfair to blame today’s Germans for Nazi-era actions and proposes global grassroots efforts against supremacist ideologies.”

                              __________

                              ( *There was a publication in the Bild about Frau Baerbock’s grandfather
                              https://www.bild.de/bild-plus/politik/inland/politik-inland/dokumente-aufgetaucht-baerbock-ich-wusste-nichts-mein-opa-und-die-nazis-87090146.bild.html )

                              “P. Zarubin notes EU’s concern over a possible return of Trump as US President, emphasizing Trump’s demand for NATO allies to increase defense spending or pay for protection.
                              Putin sees Trump as nonconformist, citing his past decisions like exiting the Kyoto Protocol.
                              He questions the relevance of NATO, viewing it as a tool of US foreign policy.”

                              “P. Zarubin revisits Putin’s interview with Tucker Carlson, highlighting Arakhamiya’s admission that Johnson urged Kiev to fight instead of negotiate with Moscow. Putin believes Western, particularly Anglo-Saxon, influence drove this stance, with Johnson likely acting on US consultations. He reiterates that politics is the art of compromise, suggesting adjustments when strategies fail.”

                              #94730 Reply
                              AG

                                admittedly less thrilling than Putin, but I still post it as diligent “documentarist”:

                                “The war in Ukraine could come to an unexpected end”

                                by Michael von Schulenburg, frm OSCE & UN, one of the few sane German diplomats.

                                (it´s not all new in its substance but it´s important as a reminder and stating the dangers. Interesting item: A peace settlement could mean “without US/NATO approval”.)

                                He wrote the only major peace plan proposal on UKR, posted here back in fall 2023 I think.
                                Even acknowledged so by Nicolai Petro sitting far off in the US.

                                https://www-telepolis-de.translate.goog/features/So-koennte-der-Krieg-in-der-Ukraine-zu-einem-unerwarteten-Ende-kommen-9626686.html?_x_tr_sl=auto&_x_tr_tl=en&_x_tr_hl=de&_x_tr_pto=wapp

                                #94731 Reply
                                AG

                                  one of the mistakes by the RU government:

                                  “Anti-War Socialist Boris Kagarlitsky Sentenced To Five Years’ Jail”
                                  https://znetwork.org/znetarticle/anti-war-socialist-boris-kagarlitsky-sentenced-to-five-years-jail/

                                  “Amnesty International’s director for Russia, Natalia Zviagina, said the verdict “is a blatant abuse of vague anti-terrorism legislation, weaponised to suppress dissent and punish a government critic.

                                  “By targeting Boris Kagarlitsky, a distinguished sociologist known for his critical stance against government policies, the Russian authorities are showing, once again, their relentless assault on all forms of dissent.

                                  “This conviction, and the closed nature of his trial, provide another stark example of the treatment of political dissenters in Russia. It is an overt attack on freedom of expression with the aim of silencing critical voices through fear and repression.

                                  “This case is not an isolated incident but part of a broader, systematic effort to stifle opposition and control what can and cannot be said in Russia.”

                                  #94732 Reply
                                  ET

                                    I don’t think Russia has a monopoly on vague anti-terrorism legislation. Indeed, it seems to be the current trend – to which I’m sure Craig Murray, Kit Klarenberg and others can attest. That such is the case doesn’t make abuse of anti-terrorism legislation anywhere any more legitimate or welcome. It will diminish the concept of actual terrorism in the mindset of all. The rush to control narrative everywhere has created a monster.

                                    #94734 Reply
                                    Tatyana

                                      I haven’t seen the actual content for which Kagarlitsky was accused, but here’s what I think:

                                      • giving the title “Explosive Congratulations” to content about the explosion on the Crimean Bridge, this perhaps quite constitutes a justification for terrorism
                                      • the initial court decision to fine 600 thousand rubles and release was quite enough
                                      • calling Kagarlitsky a dissident and oppositionist is a lie. At the trial, he said that he not only never supported terrorism, but also visited Crimea, interviewed residents and came to the conclusion that the majority of the population approved of unification with Russia. He also interacted with trade unions, and he did his job using presidential grant money! So I think the definition of “political dissident” was invented for the sake of stirring up emotions.
                                      #94767 Reply
                                      AG

                                        Am I the only one worried about this Navalny shit show? Don´t tell me this is a coincidence: The Munich Security Conference, the chaos in Kiev, at the same time testing public reaction on WMDs for Europe, and now this guy dead?
                                        Couldn´t be less obvious MI-6 and friends.
                                        No idea what nonsense German parliament will cook up now. And the stupidity in the media will be reaching new heights of racism.
                                        These are so cool times we live in…

                                        #94774 Reply
                                        Tatyana

                                          AG,
                                          I’m afraid you may find yourself to be the only one worried about it. I’ve checked my favourite Russian social media, and found some postings about Navalny. Mostly memes and old videos. Also some questionnaires with results that are far from impressive. Comments are mostly like ‘ I don’t give a f*ck’, and ‘Max died’*
                                          Popular Russian saying *’помер дед Максим, да и хрен с ним‘ – ‘grandfather Maxim is dead, no regret’.

                                          Navalny’s wife happened to attend Munich security conference today, accidentally. She gave a speech asking to bring the end to Putin and all that usual blablabla.
                                          I expect Biden to give a dramatic speech, too. Most probably Scholz and Macron will do the same as they signed security guarantee treaty with Ukraine today.

                                          #94791 Reply
                                          AG

                                            TATYANA

                                            Yes I assumed so (re: RU). Why should they care.
                                            In fact I only meant the jingoist German/West-European political/academic/media “elites”.
                                            Those people who once were called “critical public”.
                                            (Many of whom used to be part of the peace movement.)
                                            Well, as you see, I am only repeating myself.

                                            But the timing in regards of everything else is just too troubling.

                                            (The Duran had a decent show on it yesterday. Christoforou unusually skeptical. Which I liked.)
                                            https://theduran.com/alexey-navalny-dies-in-prison/

                                            This German tabloid on the “dark” Navalny, 2020, a bit like Atlantic Council´s honesty ca. 2018 about Nazis in Kiev.

                                            “Racist, right-wing extremist, homophobic?: Navalny: The dark sides of the “Kremlin critic”
                                            https://archive.is/LgG92

                                            This part of his “past” has to be saved for memory. Especially in the FRG.

                                            p.s. the Communists in RU didn´t receive a fraction of the Western media attention despite being the only meaningful opposition.

                                            #94796 Reply
                                            ET

                                              A glimpse of some reactions in Ireland related to the Putin interview from Lara Marlowe (Wikipedia).
                                              Interestingly she was formerly married to the late Robert Fisk (Wikipedia).
                                              She apparently took exception to the use of the adjective “controversial” in his obituaries, saying “he was a prolific non-conformist in the world of journalism, whose judgments avoided jumping on the bandwagon” and, in her experience, had been “intuitive, rapid […] and invariably right”.

                                              It’s a shame she didn’t take some inspiration from him before writing this piece suggesting Trump is a Putin asset.

                                              Every word of this piece is a sneer. Every point designed to ridicule. Propaganda at its finest. Lara, your ex is turning in his grave.

                                              #94803 Reply
                                              AG

                                                oooops
                                                (but she is not the only one, alas)

                                                #94804 Reply
                                                Jack

                                                  ET

                                                  Disgraceful comment by her, and should not Biden be considered a Putin puppet now according to the russia-phobics?

                                                  <i>Putin says Biden is better for Russia than a Trump presidency</i>
                                                  https://www.nbcnews.com/news/world/putin-says-biden-better-russia-trump-presidency-rcna138942

                                                  #94805 Reply
                                                  Tatyana

                                                    As far as I can trust my own feelings, Putin had to squeeze out of his mouth a few decent words about Biden. In general, he commented on some of the awkward situations, saying that “anyone of us who hasn’t hit their head sometimes should be the first to throw a stone at Biden.”
                                                    I also share his preference for Biden over Trump, because Biden is truly predictable and truly a public servant first and foremost. Trump, on the other hand, is inconsistent, he just wants to please everyone and therefore makes decisions out of his over-inflated ego. Biden, however bad he is, still represents the US. Trump, however charismatic he is, represents himself.

                                                    #94807 Reply
                                                    Michael Norton

                                                      Avdeyevka has almost collapsed to the R.U. The new armed forces leader has withdran his troops to regroup further back.
                                                      At the same time conference going on in Germany, attended by the wife of Navalny.

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                                                    Reply To: Ukraine (Date: Nov. 2023)
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