The mainstream media for the most part has moved on. But there are a few more gleanings to be had, of perhaps the most interesting comes from the Daily Mirror, which labels al-Hilli an extremist on the grounds that he was against the war in Iraq, disapproved of the behaviour of Israel and had doubts over 9/11 – which makes a great deal of the population “extremist”. But the Mirror has the only mainstream mention I can find of the possibility that Mossad carried out the killings. Given Mr al-Hilli’s profession, the fact he is a Shia, the fact he had visited Iran, and the fact that Israel heas been assassinating scientists connected to Iran’s nuclear programme, this has to be a possibility. There are of course other possibilities, but to ignore that one is ludicrous.
Which leads me to the argument of Daily Mail crime reporter, Stephen Wright, that the French police should concentrate on the idea that this was a killing by a random Alpine madman or racist bigot. Perfectly possible, of course, and the anti-Muslim killings in Marseille might be as much a precedent as Mossad killings of scientists. But why the lone madman idea should be the preferred investigation, Mr Wright does not explain. What I did find interesting from a man who has visited many crime scenes are his repeated insinuations that the French authorities are not really trying very hard to find who the killers were, for example:
the crime scene would have been sealed off for a minimum of seven to ten days, to allow detailed forensic searches for DNA, fibres, tyre marks and shoe prints to take place.
Nearby bushes and vegetation would have been searched for any discarded food and cigarette butts left by the killer, not to mention the murder weapon.
But from what I saw at the end of last week, no such searches had taken place and potentially vital evidence could have been missed. House to house inquiries in the local area had yet to be completed and police had not made specific public appeals for information about the crime. No reward had been put up for information about the shootings.
Behind the scenes, what other short cuts have been taken? Have police seized data identifying all mobile phones being used in the vicinity of the murders that day?
The idea that the French authorities – who are quite as capable as any other of solving cases – are not really trying very hard is an interesting one.
Which leads me to this part of a remarkable article from the Daily Telegraph, which if true points us back towards a hit squad and discounts the ides that there was only one gun:
Claims that only one gun was used to kill everybody is likely to be disproved by full ballistics test results which are out in October.
While the 25 spent bullet cartridges found at the scene are all of the same kind, they could in fact have come from a number of weapons of the same make.
This throws up the possibility of a well-equipped, highly-trained gang circling the car and then opening fire.
Both children were left alive by the killers, who had clinically pumped bullets into everybody else, including five into Mr Mollier.
Zainab was found staggering around outside the car by Brett Martin, a British former RAF serviceman who cycled by moments after the attack, but he saw nobody except the schoolgirl.
Her sister, Zeena, was found unscathed and hiding in the car eight hours later.
Both sisters are now back in Britain, and are believed to have been reunited at a secret location near London.
There are of course a number of hit squad options, both governmental and private, which might well involve iraqi or Iranian interests – on both of which the mainstream media have been very happy to speculate while almost unanimously ignoring Israel.
But what interests me is why the Daily Telegraph choose, in the face of all the evidence, to minimise the horrific nature of the attack by stating that “Both children were left alive by the killers”? Zainab was not left alive by design, she was shot in the chest and her skull was stove in, which presumably was a pretty serious attempt to kill a seven year-old child. The other girl might very well have succeeded in hiding from the killers under her mother’s skirts, as she hid from the first rescuers, and then for eight hours from the police.
The Telegraph article claims to be informed by sources close to the investigation. So they believe it was a group of people, and feel motivated to absolve those people from child-killing. Now what could the Daily Telegraph be thinking?
Why didn’t the postman know him ?
Why did he change the locks of the house “he lived in” ?
How do you date a dentist when you’re only on 20K ? (and she’s in Dubai) ??
As a person interested in this subject who has not got involved in any of the acrimony could I just ask everyone just to stay on topic – say you disagree, propose a theory based on available facts AND MOVE ON.
@James
I didn’t say Dubai is mad, just there’s no evidence (perhaps yet), and last night you backed off from telling us the most momentous news ever, claiming it was so shocking that revealing it might leave you in peril, leaving us all in suspenders (suspense?), and now apparently there’s nothing?
@Ferret – I’ll try not to be clueless in my response 🙂
Moderation on internet sites, in general, is not undertaken for the purposes of sifting out right from wrong. If that were the policy here, everyone would have to fit in with my views and opinions, which wouldn’t be particularly democratic! No, the purpose of moderation here is to (a) delete automated spam, (b) delete obvious racism, (c) break up fights, (d) discourage thread dominating. I don’t always get it right, but on the old thread this policy allowed good discussion to flourish, imo.
FWIW, we delete very little here normally, but in the Conundrum thread, I deleted over 500 contributions of abuse/accusation/counter-accusation of who is a shill/disinfo/spook/Zionist/CIA. That is unprecedented here, and I don’t like doing it – but it needs to be done to allow everyone a chance to be heard.
@ James
“Why didn’t the postman know him ?”
I read in one news report that the postman said “he was a very pleasant man”.
and last night you backed off from telling us the most momentous news ever
No…I was about to point out somethings about living in Dubai.
…and I have to still go there.
I do not want to put my career “on the line”.
If…and it is an “if” something does get confirmed, I do not want anyone confirming it was me that mentioned something about Dubai.
@Ben
http://www.vivisat.com/?page_id=10
Vivasat is designed to service satellites, so I guess the capability of bringing down a satellite with a decaying orbit would be among those services.
There is no doubt about it… check out http://www.vivisat.com/?page_id=14 where it says “services include … de-orbiting satellites”.
BTW, vivisat services also include “rendezvous and docking”… does this suggest satellite-napping as a possibility too? I don’t know enough about it but I would’ve thought that if you have (or had) something like the space shuttle then I suppose you could nick someone else’s satellite and return it safely to earth, couldn’t you?
What would you suppose the connection to Aked, suggests?
I don’t know, but it’s certainly open to interpretation, isn’t it?
Good point, CD, thanks.
Now, we’ve had definite analyses of info. which might lead us in the direction of attributing this ‘hit’ to firstly, a group or groups within/of Iraq and now, more recently, via James, possibly to an Iranian-related provenance. Both seem credible and logically argued/explored. However, I would suggest caution. Remember Norman Baker’s investigation of the David Kelly’s death? I think Baker may have been led off track by sources unknown to his readers. We do not seem to have had any sources or armchair (armchair – that’s me, folks!) research that might lead us to Israel as perpetrator. I’m not saying that we ought to, or that I’d rather we did, nor am I casting any aspersions on anyone (as Nuid wrote in her very first post on the anaconda thread), we’re mostly thrashing around in the dark. I’m simply making a point.
I posted on three Facebook pages relating to groups of progressive Muslims – let’s see if I get any response.
Kathy
“Why didn’t the postman know him ?”
You tell me. I don’t know.
I find it an odd phrase….as though he wasn’t there that long.
I don’t believe he was. Nor do I think the “postie” is a “spook”.
@Ben
Vivasat is designed to service satellites, so I guess the capability of bringing down a satellite with a decaying orbit would be among those services.
There is no doubt about it… check out http://www.vivisat.com/?page_id=14 where it says “services include […] de-orbiting satellites”.
BTW, vivisat services also include “rendezvous and docking”… does this suggest satellite-napping as a possibility too? I don’t know enough about it but I would’ve thought that if you have (or had) something like the space shuttle then I suppose you could nick someone else’s satellite and return it safely to earth, couldn’t you?
What would you suppose the connection to Aked, suggests?
I don’t know, but it’s certainly open to interpretation, isn’t it?
@ James
No, I wasn’t asking you. I was quoting you.
I read in one news report that the postman said “he was a very pleasant man”.
Here’s one…
Remember the now “famous” “Gary and Saad” picture.
Who was moving whom ?
>>>>>>Previous thread closed.
A bit about “witness” (BBC R4 prog) Paul Ducher
FFCT – french cycle touring federation:
LISE DUCHER
RTE DE LA COMBE D IRE
74210 CHEVALINE Email : [email protected]
Téléphone : +33(0)626826131
amazing cycling co-incidence!!
very keen cyclists — what’s the chance of that in the middle of nowhere.
Lise Ducher is secretary of the Velo Club Doussard
http://doussard-veloclub.over-blog.com/2-categorie-11933563.html
I wonder if Brett Martin joined them?
Anders89638 decimal 5 at 10.23pm
GO FLANDERS GO… give it to ’em boy.
Thwack away.
More. More… MORE.
“Saad Al Hilli’s “best friend” Gary Aked works at ATK as Senior Engineer. ATK have a satellite called ViviSat which can de-orbit other satellites, ”
So what? How is that significant? I have a friend who got a PhD developing stuff for mobile phones, it doesn’t mean I have an extensive knowledge of mobile phones. Even if Aked does work for ATK they are a huge company so it doesn’t necessarily mean he has anything to do with their satellite work. On top of that there is more than one ATK as a simple search would reveal including an ATK in Surrey which paves driveways.
Kathy..
Just for you…
http://vimeo.com/48947088
Suhayl, I think the Iraqi +/ Iranian theories rest on assumed or unproven family and political links on both the al-Hilli and al-Jaffar sides of the family. Even if those family links and political connections (some historical) are proven they would not necessarily rule out Mossad culpability, direct or indirect. In fact it is plausible that anyone might have falsely implicated the family in actions that would have been considered a threat by Mossad who might have acted on the information.
…continued from 10.24 (awaiting mod)…
http://fr.netlog.com/paulducher
Paul Ducher?? Combe D’Ire = Cote D’Ivoire??
James, at 10:16pm, I understand your caution. But this is a highly public forum, with thousands of readers, esp., according to Craig Murray, of these Al-Hilli threads. We are all – even those who use pseudonyms – completely traceable anyway by those who might want to trace us. They know where we are, they can analyse all our e-mails, ‘phone-calls, everything. They can even pretend to be someone we know.
Craig Murray announced on a recent post that he was directly addressing MI5 and the cops, telling them that he knows they follow his movements wrt Assange and informing them of those movements in a very public manner.
If they watch him, they most definitely are watching his blog and looking at many of us contributors (the third most notable political blog in the UK), esp. those of us who post often/a lot/regularly. As a ‘Muslim British’ (or whatever) writer who has worked with (though not as an employee of) the British Council, BBC, etc., I fully expect somewhere, there will be a dossier on me – indeed, I would be somewhat disappointed if there weren’t! My views are open. I completely understand, though, James that not everyone can (afford to be, or maybe I should say, ‘need to be’) be so open and that job security is a major issue. I – and I’m sure many others – do appreciate your input here. Thanks.
@Jon
FWIW, we delete very little here normally, but in the Conundrum thread, I deleted over 500 contributions of abuse/accusation/counter-accusation of who is a shill/disinfo/spook/Zionist/CIA. That is unprecedented here, and I don’t like doing it – but it needs to be done to allow everyone a chance to be heard.
I appreciate that you have to prevent all out fights on the thread, and that everyone should get a chance to be heard, that is only right and fair.
The problem is that people who deliberately engage in meaningless and repetitive conversations that go on and on, and round and round, or who deliberately post baseless, false information, are drowning out other voices that want to be heard, and that’s exactly what Anders and I are complaining about.
You take action against one side, but not the other, which allows their “distraction” tactics to flourish.
I request (as did Anders yesterday) that if you are going to take action, you take action on both sides of the fence, to even up the score.
Please, at least consider this request and let it roll around for a while.
Thank you – and I do appreciate you do have a very hard job to do.
“Tosh/disinformation of the highest grade.”
Why is it “tosh/disinformation of the highest grade”? What evidence have you got that it’s “tosh/disinformation” apart from the fact that it’s what you want to believe.
http://doussard-veloclub.blogspot.co.uk/2008/10/mme-l-il-fallait-freiner-pour-maitriser.html
Felix,
There are cycle routes in that Doussard cycle club. Perhaps a route – the new route that Sylvain was trying for the first time
Suhayl.
Again I agree with you. A voice of reason.
It is however not the “Brits” I worry about.
Nor is it anybody else. It just can make life “harder”.
Try landing in “Mad Cow” with your visa in your other passport that away getting it’s Chinese one…
Or going to the States…after being in Cuba
…or landing in DXB…and there’s a problem.
You get 4 bars….for being able to being able to do things right, not because you can drive a metal tube !
@Kempe
Hilarious!
😀
… a simple search would reveal including an ATK in Surrey which paves driveways.
Yeah, that’d be “ATK Drives & Patios”.
LOL
I leave it to the reader to decide if (a) if a driveway paving company would need the services of a “Senior Engineer”, and (b) if they did, would the Senior Engineer be dumb enough to put their employer down as “ATK” on their LinkedIn profile when that would link them with a major international arms company?!?
Truly, you insult our intelligence (and I think knowingly).
However, I have done a full search on all companies called ATK in the UK and there are none that fit the bill, and are in/around Guildford.
There can be no mistake. Gary Aked works for ATK.
Next disinfo attempt?
He didnt pay “big Tom” at the patio firm !
20 x 30…and he only paid for 10 x 6. SHOOT HIM !!!!
@Ferret – thanks. I’ll be as even handed as I can, as ever – but I can’t take action against people “who deliberately post baseless, false information”, since that requires me to be the arbiter of right and wrong. See above for my response on that 🙂
FWIW, if a reader thinks that someone is contributing bad info deliberately, they may engage/disagree with said contributor with reason, debate and civility. Abusiveness and caps lock just gets said reader onto mod radar.
@Q
Thanks for the link (on the other thread, last night) to SSTL’s latest satellite launch.
exactView-1 separated from the Soyuz launch vehicle’s Fregat upper stage in low Earth orbit approximately 2 1/2 hours after launch. SSTL has since established communications with the satellite in its of 817km sun synchronous orbit from SSTL’s Guildford mission control centre and is receiving telemetry and commanding the spacecraft.
http://www.sstl.co.uk/news-and-events?story=2049
@Jon
Erm…”mod radar”. Is that “MODDAR” !
Is that what you need when entering MoD air space !
@James
OK, I understand now. Fair enough.