Prevent: A Totally Illiberal Strategy 131

I have now ploughed through all 120 pages odd of the Government’s new Prevent Strategy, which manages to be even more illiberal and more turgid than the original. It claims that the last Prevent Strategy was misguided – but for all the wrong reasons. Rather amusingly, it starts with a message of endorsement from Lord Carlile – who also endorsed the last strategy which it criticises so strongly. The truth is, Carlile will endorse anything for any government which gives him status – he loves status – “It has my considered and strong support” he concludes his endorsement – you have to imagine saying it with marbles in your mouth and a degree of insufferable pomposity – “It has my considered and strong support”- wanker.

The report has many errors. but its fundamental flaw is iits explicit assumption that terrorism is actuated by a hatred of democracy.

” There is evidence to indicate that support for terrorism is associated with rejection of a cohesive, integrated, multi-faith society and of parliamentary democracy. Work to deal with radicalisation will depend on developing a sense of belonging to this country and support for our core values. “

That may in part be true; but with stunning intellectual dishonesty the government refuses to tackle in the report the fact that terrorism in the UK has been driven by disgust at British foreign policy, and especially the invasion of Iraq, and the continuing occupation and civilian deaths in Afghanistan. This is not speculation on my part; the 7/7 bombers not only referred to this specifically in suicide videos, they also indeed cited extraordinary renidition and torture as motives of their actions.

The Prevent Strategy ignores this and instead chooses to adopt the stupidly simple mantra of George W Bush to explain terrorism; “They hate our freedoms”. This is precisely the sole cause of terrorism which the Prevent Strategy defines as the problem. When the problem is defined fundamentally wrongly, you can hardly expect the solutions to be correct.

And those conclusions are stunningly illiberal – much more so than the mainstream media has picked up This is a direct quote. I am not making it up:

But preventing terrorism will mean challenging extremist (and non-violent) ideas that are also part of a terrorist ideology.

The (and non-violent) is there in the original. Really.

So peaceful support for a united Ireland should not be allowed, because it is “also part of a terrorist ideology”? That is absolutely the implication of the report. But it is plain it only applies to Muslim groups, on the grounds that they “pose the greatest threat” to the public,

So what it means is that believing that the UK should be governed by Sharia law, even if you hold that belief totally lawfully and without violence, and wish to campaign for it through democratic means, should not be allowed.

But it goes further than that. Universites, healthcare providers, NGOs and faith groups are to be vigilant in searching for those who hold such beliefs, and reporting them to the police. We have already seen where this leads. At Nottingham University two students were thrown out for researching information on Al Qaida on the State Department website, and then a lecturer was sacked for defending them.

Pages 15 to 19 cover support for terrorism and the drivers for it. There is one single phrase in five pages that acknowledges western foreign policy as a motivator for terrorism, but this is then ignored, while all the other factors are treated at great length. The opinion polls cited on pages 16 to 17 on Muslim attitudes to terrorism refrained from asking any question about western foreign policy or giving any chance for respondents to refer to it.

There is an accidentally hilarious part of the report where it denies that Prevent is used for spying on Muslim communities. That, they say, falls under a related programme called Pursue, and should not be confused with Prevent! But twenty odd pages after their lengthy passage claiming Prevent has been unfairly accused of spying, which is the task of Pursue, we find:

“Taking action against propagandists and radicalisers requires careful coordination between work in the Pursue and Prevent areas” p. 52

Which is something of a giveaway.

There is also yet another example of the Tories fulfilling their pledge to reach the target of 0.7% of GDP spent on development aid, by classifying war and “security” expenditure as development aid.

The Department for International Development (DfID) also has a role to play. Although its main purpose is to reduce poverty, overseas development work in some areas can help to build resilience to terrorism through programmes that strengthen governance and security,

With my interest in the university sector, it is some of the stuff on universities I find most chilling. It is full of reasonable sounding propositions that reveal the feeble grasp of a limited intellect:

Universities and colleges have an important role to play in Prevent, particularly in ensuring balanced debate as well as freedom of speech.

There is no obligation on universities to provide “balanced debate”. Do they have to have a creationist speaker at every lecture on evolution? There is still less of an obligation on them to ensure balanced debate in the extra-curricular activities of their students. Does there have to be a Tory speaker at every meeting against the cuts? And remember, that the Prevent Strategy makes plain that the “extremist speakers” they wish to guard against specifically include speakers with a non-violent ideology.

But the great news is, that restrictions on what you are allowed to think at university are all for your own good:

to ensure that all institutions where there is risk of radicalisation recognise their duty of care to students to protect them from the consequences of their becoming involved in terrorism, and take reasonable steps to minimise this risk;

This incredible piece of Orwellian justification for the end of academic freedom is breathtaking in its audacity. The practical consequences could easily be transposed into a manual of the Third Reich, of Stalin’s Russia or Pinochet’s Chile. Again I am not making this stuff up, this is what the report says about universities:

work with the police and other partners to ensure that student societies and university and college staff have the right information and guidance to enable them to make decisions about external speakers.

support local police forces in working with those institutions assessed to be at the greatest risk;

Under New Labour I had the peculiar experience of finding myself banned from entering a Cambridge University building, and therefore delivering a speech to a large crowd of students who gathered in the foyer to hear me as I shouted through the open doorway. I honestly did believe that the Lib Dems and even the Conservatives would be better. I was very, very wrong.

This new Prevent Strategy is a document which sadly proves that the staff of MI5 and the Home Office are, on average, not very bright, and will always favour their own power over liberty. Media reports have focused on the decision to withdarw government funding from those organisations viewed as “extremist”, because that is what the government press release said, and no mainstream journalist will ever actually read the report.

In fact I favour withdrawing that funding. Personally I don’t think the government should fund any faith group or institution.

One organisation which will still receive plenty of government funding under the Prevent programme is the Quilliam Foundation,. This taxpayer funded body attempted by subterfuge to gain personal financial details from me. That says all you need to know about Prevent, which is a secret service led programme.

In fact, if the government got much smaller, and stopped funding attacks on foreign countries, we would all be vastly safer, which would be a real “Prevent Strategy”.

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131 thoughts on “Prevent: A Totally Illiberal Strategy

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  • Kevin Boyle


    It is not about ‘The Jews’ killing Christ. It is about the continuation of a thoroughly wicked ideology being taught and implemented by the leadership of this most financially powerful group on earth.
    The ‘debunking’ of Fred Leuchter’s work is as laughable as the official debunking of the arguments presented by those whole rightly assert that the WTC7 collapse was a controlled demolition. Criminals lie and liars lie. If you want to engage with the substance of these issues, that’s fine by me.
    Again all you’ve got is name-calling and false unbacked assertions, as is usual.
    If you want some evidence that the Talmudic (Pharisaical) teachings are wicked, here are a few extracts (The ‘Sermon On The Mount’ it ain’t):


    1. “We beg Thee, 0 Lord, inflict Thy wrath on the nations not believing in Thee. Take away, 0 Lord, all hope from them. Destroy all foes of Thy nation.” -Synagaga Judaica, p. 212. Minhagen, p. 23. Crach Chain, 480 Magah.

    2. “The teachings of the Talmud stand above all other laws. They are more important than the laws of Moses.” -Rabbi Issael, Rabbi Chasbar, et. al.

    3. “The decisions of the Talmud are words of the living God. Jehovah Himself asks the opinion of the earthly rabbis when there are difficult affairs in heaven.” -Rabbi Menechen Commentary on Fifth Book

    4. “Jehovah Himself studies the Talmud standing, he has such respect for that book.” -Tract Mechillo

    5. “It is more wicked to question the words of the rabbis than those of the Torah.” -Michna Sanhedryn 11:3

    6. “It is forbidden to disclose the secrets of the law. He who would do it would be as guilty as though he destroyed the whole world.” – Jektat Chadasz, 171, 3

    7. “Every goy who studies the Talmud and every Jew who helps him in it, ought to die.” -Sanhedryn, 59a, aboda Zora 8-6, Szagiga 13

    8. “To communicate anything to a goy about our religious relations would be equal to the killing of all Jews, for if the goyim knew what we teach about them they would kill us openly.” -Libbre David 37

    9. “If a Jew be called upon to explain any part of the rabbinic books, he ought to give only a false explanation. Who ever will violate this order shall be put to death.” -Libbre David 37

    10. “A Jew should and must make a false oath when the goyim asks if our books contain anything against them.” -Szaaloth-Utszabot, The Book of Jore Via 17

    11. “The Jews are human beings, but the nations of the world are not human beings but beasts…” -Saba Mecia 114, 6

    12. “When the Messiah comes every Jew will have 2800 slaves.” -Simeon Haddarsen, fol. 56-D

    13. “Jehovah created the non-Jew in human form so that the Jew would not have to be served by beasts. The non-Jew is consequently an animal in human form, and condemned to serve the Jew day and night.” – Midrasch Talpioth, p. 225-L

    14. “As soon as the King Messiah will declare himself, He will destroy Rome and make a wilderness of it. Thorns and weeds will grow in the Pope’s palace. Then He will start a merciless war on non-Jews and will overpower them. He will slay them in masses, kill their kings and lay waste the whole Roman land. He will say to the Jews: ‘I am the King Messiah for whom you have been waiting. Take the silver and gold from the goyim.’ ” -Josiah 60, 6. Rabbi Abarbanel to Daniel 7, 13

    15. “A Gentile girl who is three years old can be violated.” -9boda Sarah 37

    16. “A Jew may violate but not marry a non-Jewish girl.” -&ad. Shas. 2:2

    17. “A Jew may do to a non-Jewess what he can do. He may treat her as he treats a piece of meat.” -Hadarine, 20, B; Schulchan 9ruch, Choszen Hamiszpat 348

    18. “A Jew may misuse the non-Jewess in her state of unbelief.” – Maimonides, Jak. Chasaka 2:2

    19. “IF a goy kills a goy or a Jew he is responsible; but if a Jew kills a goy he is NOT responsible.” -Tosefta. 9boda Za,-a 8, 5

    20. “It is permitted to kill a Jewish denunciator everywhere. It is permitted to kill him even before he denounces.” -Schuichan Qruch, Choszen Hajpiszpat jog

    21. “Thou shalt not do injury to thy neighbor (Bible), but it is not said, ‘Thou shalt not do injury to a Goy.’ ” -Mishna Sanhedryn 57

    22. “When you go to war do not go as the First, but as the last, so that you may return as the first. Five things has Kanaan recommended to his sons: ‘Love each other, love the robbery, hate your masters and never tell the truth.’ ” -Pesachis F. 113B

    23. “A Jew is permitted to rape, cheat and perjure himself; but he must take care that he is not found out, so that Israel may not suffer.” -Schulchan Aruch, Jore Dia

    24. “A Jew may rob a goy – that is,.he may cheat him in a bill, if unlikely to be perceived by him.” -Schalchan Arach, Choszen Hamiszpat 348

    25. “If a goy wants a Jew to stand witness against a Jew in a Court of Law, and if the Jew could give fair evidence, he is forbidden to do it; but if a Jew wants a Jew to be a witness in a similar case against a goy, he may do it.” -Schalchan .9ruch, Choszen Hasiszpat 28, Art. 3 and 4

    26. “Those who do not confess the Torah and the Prophets must be killed. Who has the power to kill them, let them kill them openly with the sword. if not, let them use artifices, till they are done away with.” -Schulchan Qruch. Choszon Haviszpat 425.5

    27. “All property of other nations belongs to the Jewish nation, which, consequently, is entitled to seize upon it without any scruples. An orthodox Jew is not bound to observe principles of morality towards people of other tribes. He may act contrary to morality, if profitable to himself or to Jews in general’ ” – Schalchan arach. Choszen Hasisxpat 348

    28. “Should a Jew inform the goyish authorities that another Jew has much money, and the other will suffer a loss through it, he must give him emuneration.” -Schalchan Oruch, Choszen Maipiszpat 388

    29. “How to interpret the word ‘robbery.’ A goy is forbidden to steal, rob, or take women slaves, etc., from a goy or from a Jew. But a Jew is NOT forbidden to do all this to a goy.” -Tosefta, Qbda Zara VIRZ, 5

    30. “On the house of the goy one looks as on the fold of cattle.” – Tosefta, Erabin VZZ, 1

    31. “All vows, oaths, promises, engagements, and swearing, which, beginning this very day or reconciliation till the next day of reconciliation, we intend to vow, promise, wear, and bind ourselves to fulfill, we repent of beforehand; let them be illegalized, acquitted, annihilated, abolished, valueless, unimportant. Our vows shall be no vows, and our oaths no oaths at all.” -Schulchan 9ruch,

    Edit. 1, 136. The Jewish Kol Nidre “All Vows” Oath has been set to a

    morbid Jewish music, and is often heard on the radio. It is sung as a

    chant at each Yom Kippur [Jewish New Year service September 17]

    32. “Everything a Jew needs for his church ritual no goy is permitted to manufacture, but only a Jew, because this must be manufactured by human beings and the Jew is not permitted to consider the goyim as human beings.” -Schulchan Oruch, Orach Chaiw 14, 20, 32, 33, 39. TaIDud Jebamoth 61

    33. “A Jewish mid-wife is not only permitted but she is compelled to help a Jewish mother on Saturday (Jewish Sabbath) and when so doing to do anything which otherwise would desecrate the Saturday. But it is forbidden to help a non-Jewish woman even if it should be possible to help her without desecrating the Saturday, because she is to be considered only as an animal.” -Schulchan gruch, Orach Chaim 330

    34. “At the time of the Cholhamoed the transaction of any kind of business is forbidden. But it is permitted to cheat a goy, because cheating of goyim at any time pleases the Lord.” -Chuichan Qruch, Orach ChaiD 539

    35. “The Jews are strictly Forbidden to cheat their brothers and it is considered cheating already if onesixth of the value has been taken away from him. Whoever has cheated his brother has to return it to him. Naturally all that only holds towards the Jew, to cheat a goy he is permitted and he is not permitted to return to him what he cheated him out of. Because the Bible says: ‘Thou shalt not cheat thy next brother,’ but the non-Jews are not our brethren, but as mentioned above, worse than dogs.” -aruch hoszen Haniszpat 227

    And from another source comes the following

    In New York City, Jewish Menorahs are a part of city displays during Hanukkah, as are the Islamic star and crescent during Ramadan. Nativity scenes during Christmas are banned, however. Same thing in Palm Beach, Florida (yes, that Palm Beach…the one of hanging chad fame). Both are hotbeds of Jewish activism. Precursors of what is in store for the rest of America.

    The Talmud fairly bulges with expressions of animosity for the goyim (that’s you and me) and, especially, Christianity, which itself simply turns the other cheek, of course. Normally, I would give just a couple of examples, but I am going to let this list to go on at some length, just so you get a flavor of the depth of hostility for us that exists in Jewish teachings – the hostility that has led to so many things that now are wrong with America, including the destruction of Christmas, of course:

    “A Jew must not associate himself with gentiles.” – Hilkoth Maakhaloth, Ch. IX.

    “The Jews are human beings, but the nations of the world are not human beings but beasts.” – Saba Mecia, 114, 6.

    “Jehovah created the non-Jew in human form so that the Jew would not have to be served by beasts. The non-Jew is consequently an animal in human form, and condemned to serve the Jew day and night.” – Midrasch Talpioth, p. 225-L.

    “It is permitted to kill a Jewish denunciator everywhere. It is permitted to kill him even before he denounces.” -Schuichan Qruch, Choszen Hajpiszpat jog

    “Thou shalt not do injury to thy neighbor (Bible), but it is not said, ‘Thou shalt not do injury to a Goy.’ ” – Mishna Sanhedryn 57.

    “All property of other nations belongs to the Jewish nation, which, consequently, is entitled to seize upon it without any scruples. An orthodox Jew is not bound to observe principles of morality towards people of other tribes. He may act contrary to morality, if profitable to himself or to Jews in general.” – Schalchan arach. Choszen Hasisxpat 348.

    “The Jew is not permitted to consider the goyim as human beings.” – Schulchan Oruch, Orach Chaiw 14, 20, 32, 33, 39. TaIDud Jebamoth 61.

    “To communicate anything to a goy about our religious relations would be equal to the killing of all Jews, for if the goyim knew what we teach about them they would kill us openly.” – Libbre David 37.

    “Although the non-Jew has the same body structure as the Jew, they compare with the Jew like a monkey to a human.” – Schene luchoth haberith, p. 250 b

    “If you eat with a Gentile, it is the same as eating with a dog.” – Tosapoth, Jebamoth 94b

    “It is the law to kill anyone who denies the Torah. The Christians belong to the denying ones of the Torah.” – Coschen hamischpat 425 Hagah 425. 5

    (Jesus Christ was) illegitimate and conceived during menstruation. Mother a Prostitute. – Kallah 1b. (18b)

    Christian birth rate must be diminished materially. – Zohar (II 64b):

    Jews must always try to deceive Christians. – Zohar (1 160a)

    Jews are not to prevent the death of a Christian. – Choschen Ham (425 5):

    Do not save Christians in danger of death, instructed to let die. – Hilkkoth Akum (x,1):

    Even the best of the Goim [Christians] should be killed. – Abhodah Zarah (25b)T

    If Jew kills a Christian he commits no sin. – Sepher Or Israel 177b

    Extermination of Christians necessary. – Zohar (11 43a):

    Make no agreements and show no mercy to Christians. – Hilkhoth Akum (x,1):

    Christians are idolaters. – Hilkhoth Maakhaloth

    Christians have intercourse with animals. – Abhodah Zarah (22a):

    Female Jews contaminated when meeting Christians. – Iore Dea (198, 48):

    Innocent of murder if intent was to kill a Christian. – Makkoth (7b)

    Christians likened to cows and asses. – Zohar II (64b):

    Psalmist compares Christians to beasts. – Kethuboth (110b):

    Sexual intercourse with Christian same as intercourse with beast. – Sanhedrin (74b)

    The seed [children] of Christians valued same as the seed of a beast. – Kethuboth (3b):

    Those Jews who do good to Christians never rise when dead. – Zohar (1, 25b)

    Jews are to hide their hatred for Christians. – Iore Dea (148, 12H):

    Christian property belongs to the first Jew claiming it. – Babha Bathra (54b):

    Keep any overpayment Christians make in error. – Choschen Ham (193, 7):

    It is permitted for a Jew to deceive Christians. – Babha Kama (113b):

    Jew may deceive Christians. – Iore Dea (157, 2) H:

    Jew may lie and perjure himself to condemn a Christian. – Babha Kama (113a):

    The name of God is not profaned when a Jew lies to Christians. – Babha Kama (113b):

    Jew may perjure himself when lying about Christians. – Kallah (1b, p. 18):

    Jews may swear falsely by the use of subterfuge wording. – Schabbouth Hag (6d):

    Jews must always try to deceive Christians. – Zohar (1, 160a):

    Christians who are not Jews’ enemies must also die. – Iore Dea (158, 1):

    etc., etc.

  • YugoStiglitz

    Heh Kevin Boyle, funny how the all-powerful Jews won’t be able to save one of the most pro-Israel congressmen.

    You racist.

  • Kevin Boyle


    That’s the label that breaking the taboo of actually mentioning Jewish racism gets you.

    I bet that you have never ever seen anything as racist as the extracts from the Talmud posted above.

    I object most extremely to the fact that THIS SOCIETY is party to the murder of more than one million brown-skinned people over the past decade, millions more if you go back a further forty years.

    I notice the wild hypocritical disjuncture between our holier-than-thou anti-racist blathering at home and these gruesome facts.

    Someone somewhere is having us on, deceiving us and misleading us.

    I see virulent Jewish racism that has concentrated disproportionate power in the hands of a small extremely vocal, ‘anti-racist’ and coherent group.

    I’m not saying everything is the fault of organised Jewry but it’s about time someone had the nerve to state the absolutely effing obvious.


    Our leaders are controlled by high finance and an international agenda that has everything to do with the overwhelming influence of Jews amongst the elite at the top. (A Christian might recognise these moneylenders and their ideological Talmudist allies as the very people Christ warned the Jews [and the world] against 2000 years ago)

    We will never escape from the clutches of these forces until we speak up and actively oppose them.

    My own reason for fanaticism on this issue is that I have looked very closely in a place where visitors to this site, including Mr Murray, seem to be very reluctant to go.

    False flag terrorism, 9/11 and 7/7. Either I really am a lunatic and am wrong about these events or I (and millions like me) are correct.

    If so we are surely in a dreadful, dreadful place….where well-meaning people who think themselves do-gooders betray their own society and their childrens’ futures by refusing to face the truth of these issues.

    Israeli hands are all over 9/11. All over it. The reality is that US/UK/Israel are one country under one financial authority regarding issues of importance.

    You are all free to argue violently and beat each other up over trivia on sites like this but how can you possibly argue that the big allegations against government should be ignored…..just because these charges present a reality that is ‘unthinkable’

    The sooner you start thinking seriously about these issues and finding THE TRUTH for yourself, Yugostiglitz, the sooner you will understand what racism really is.

    It is a sub-category within a mindset that can be characterised as a contempt for or (at least) carelessness towards humanity in general.

    It is WHAT WE ALL ARE WHILE WE PASSIVELY ALLOW OUR MILITARY TO MURDER FOREIGNERS IN EXTREMELY LARGE NUMBERS (foreigners who always happen to be, it would appear, brown-skinned)

    Yours, here, patiently awaiting your short abusive reply.

  • YugoStiglitz

    Kevin Boyle: “Either I really am a lunatic and am wrong about these events or I (and millions like me) are correct.”

    The former explanation is most likely.

  • angrysoba

    So, Kevin Boyle, do you think that Hitler was right? Or at least, do you think his own obsession with Jews was justified? Do you agree that the First World War and Germany’s defeat in it was the fault of the Jews?

  • angrysoba

    Looks like I was right. Anti-Semites are so predictable:
    “94% pr so of the world’s population of Jews are Ashkenazi Jews. That is they are of the Khazarian empire, who were non semitic people…People like you are simply oblivious to reality, either because you’re a Jew and ignorant/elitist or you are a brainwashed goy.”
    Nice people who infest your site Kevin Boyle. I notice that many of your followers are completely unabashed racists and Nazis. I went to the website of one chosen almost purely at random and found the blog writer plaintively opening his blogpost with “Why can’t we say nigger anymore?”
    I think I’ve been to your site before when you were claiming that Israel sank the South Korean vessel, the Cheonan. At the time I seem to remember that Red Squirrel (a BNP blogger was following and maybe commenting there). Why do attract anti-semites and Holocaust deniers?

  • Kevin Boyle

    Someone called you ‘a Zionist shill who frequents the Craig Murray blog’. I do not follow this site but on a rare visit noticed that Mr Murray was promoting the conventional but false idea that suicide bombers carried out 7/7. This prompted by contribution to this thread.

    Looks like this person was correct though. Your response is predictable abuse. Oh, and lies. I never said Israel sank the Korean boat.

    When you respond to the facts of 9/11, when you justify the horrible satanic racism (some of which is presented above) in the Talmud, when you convince people that agents of internationally organised finance (dominated by Jews) are not behind the US/EU/Israel aggression in Pakistan, Libya and elsewhere across the middle east, when you demonstrate that this criminal enterprise carried out by those that lead us is not a threat to the well being of everybody on this earth then I might consider your abuse worthy of something other than contempt.

    Like similar agents that used to infest the 9/11 forum you have zero interest in who is responsible for such great crimes. You have zero interest in who is responsible for the fate of the victims. You have zero interest in the suffering of surviving relatives. You only care that the dominating Jewish input in all these events is never mentioned.

    You yourself are evidence of both the existence of the organised and universal sayanim (active ever-watchful Jewish advocates, wielders of the ‘anti-semitism’, ‘Nazi’ weapon) and living proof of its heartless, purely self-interested nature.

    Make up what you like. I just hope that the people of this country survive the foul manipulations of your poisonous and disingenuous collective.

    I also pray that the majority of Jewish people, who play no more part in the crimes of our leadership than the rest of us, wake up to the peril at the top of their own community (and ours). Let us pray that they hear Christ even now.

    For absolute disaster beckons.

  • angrysoba

    “When you respond to the facts of 9/11, when you justify the horrible satanic racism (some of which is presented above) in the Talmud, when you convince people that agents of internationally organised finance (dominated by Jews) are not behind the US/EU/Israel aggression in Pakistan, Libya and elsewhere across the middle east, when you demonstrate that this criminal enterprise carried out by those that lead us is not a threat to the well being of everybody on this earth then I might consider your abuse worthy of something other than contempt.”
    Okay, on your blog someone pointed out that you couldn’t be anti-semitic on the basis that Ashkenazi Jews are Khazars and not Semites (this is a hoary old legend as far as I can make out and most historians in the field don’t think there is any truth in it.) This is an hilarious legalistic argument given that anti-Semitism was a term made up by people who hated Jews who thought the word “Judenhass” was unscientific. But what’s also hilarious is that actual Jew haters like yourself spoil the narrative by pointing out that the Talmud contains horrible racist stuff. There is no argument whatsoever for saying that Khazars wrote the Talmud given that the Old Testament hails from the Middle East.
    “Your response is predictable abuse.”
    I called you an anti-Semite. You are an anti-Semite. There are no two ways about it, anti-Semite. The term is not a trick. Not when applied to the likes of you. Of course, there ARE people who get unfairly called anti-Semites but the very fact that there exist people who are unfairly called anti-Semite doesn’t mean there aren’t people who are fairly called anti-Semite. You are one of them.
    “I also pray that the majority of Jewish people, who play no more part in the crimes of our leadership than the rest of us, wake up to the peril at the top of their own community (and ours).”
    Concern troll acts concern. Don’t spray out your poisonous bile like that and affect concern for a whole ethnic/religious group you’ve just smeared. Rather, why don’t you answer the question I asked you. Do you think Hitler was right in his analysis of the cause of World War One and Germany’s defeat in it? You might think I am weilding the “Nazi” weapon but in fact your analysis of world events are jawdroppingly similar to those of the little Austrian corporal’s. If you’re not prepared to answer questions then why not just slither back into whatever grubby little hole you popped out of?

  • Suhayl Saadi

    Azra, you wrote that you were married to “a Christine”. I assume you meant, “a Christian”! You’ve made a valid point that colonial/neocolonial policies have generated hatred against the USA/UK in Muslim majority countries. One might use this model also to encompass the generation of Islamism as a military and mass political force by the USA/UK as a bulwark against genuine self-determination. However, wrt the current set of dynamics in Afghanistan and Pakistan, I think that even if the USA/UK were to withdraw completely from active interference in those countries, the spectre of Islamism would not vanish. And unfortunately, while Spain’s involvement in the invasion of Iraq most certainly led to the Madrid bombing, the UK’s involvement in the Middle East/South Asia runs much deeper and has gone on for far longer (as we know). The UK also has harboured and fostered the growth of Islamism domestically and this is something else which does not apply to Spain. The demographics of Muslims living in the UK – both British people and immigrants – differs hugely in terms of social class, goegraphical/geopolitical origin, educational attainment and of course in scale, from those of the USA, say, or Spain. Much of the current Islamist ideation arises from Pakistan and that is a mix of Deobandi/Wahhabi/Salafi ideology transmitted over the past 30 years from Pakistan/India/Saudi Arabia. So it is not a simple equation. I agree entirely that much govt. action in the UK has been counterproductive for the reasons you suggest. I think that Muslim people themselves in the UK need to rise up and argue and work without apology against the reductive, bigoted, reactionary Islamist pressures within their own communities. That is crucial – it needs to be from inside. As a state, the UK also needs to stop pandering to religious groups of various kinds; the misguided expansion of separate schooling is an example.

    Angrysoba, thanks for the clip – precisely – Hamid Gul is a systemic liar.

    Wrt the Talmud (I hesitate to leap into the fray, as it’s probably pointless and may be counterproductive on this thread), one can produce religious texts from all religions which say heinous things – Islam, Christianity, Hinduism, Judaism, all of these are more – contain such texts which we would regard as unacceptable and vicious. Perhaps this is simply the way human society has worked over the years, so that the texts say more about us and about organised religion than about any imaginary or real deity.

    There’s absolutely no excuse for anti-Semitism, and/or crazy stuff about ‘the Jews’. All those extremely long posts, filled with diatribe (though I accept that mine are often not short). It just messes up other discourses and helps – in vain, I should add – to associate the website with such nonsense. Europe as a whole needs to be honest about its past: Within living memory, Europe deliberately and systematically, on an industrial scale, killed millions of Jewish people and exported its racist views to other parts of the world. Germany admirably has faced-up to its past. Eastern Europe, often, has not.

    Palestine-Israel is a political issue which needs fixed by a political process encompassing land, water, peace, security (security for Palestinians, not just for Israelis) and regional trade. I hope that the processes underpinning ‘the Arab Spring’ will help to drive this dynamic, it’s a real opportunity, I feel. But European (or any) anti-Semitism must not be allowed to screw-up prospects of peace in the Levant. Basically, what I say to European (or any) anti-Semites is this: You can take your bigotry and racism, which has impacted upon humanity for too long solely in terms of horror, and hallucinate all you want – we want no part of your cult of death and madness!

  • Azra

    Suhayl, thanks for the correction! yes I am married to a Christian.. and I totally agree with you.. I do not think UK, US government are ever going to be honest and face up it. Look at USA government, it was 30 years (when the documents were made public) after they engineered fall of Mosadaq in Iran that they admitted to the role they played. . Politician every where have always been power hungry, self serving lot, and if there is a rare individual who is honest amongst them, he/she won’t survive, so all and all we are in for a lot more nonsensical, useless programmes and policies such as this one.

  • Kevin Boyle


    Answer a few questions yourself for once you brainwashed creep.

    You need to see people who ask such questions as vicious and hate-filled. Actually I am not.

    I see what is going on. I realise that myself and the people around me are being misled by satanic predators and parasites. I recognise that the IDEOLOGY at work is precisely the one Christ condemned (although I’m aware that most Jews are not aware of the contents of the Talmud, their leadership are). I also recognise that the age-old allies of the Pharisees, the money-changers hold us all in bondage through debt.

    I don’t hate Jews. In fact, by the by, just about all my heroes are Jews for what it’s worth. It is also understood that you will not be interested in any truth that does not serve your purposes.

    My objection is to the ideology and objectives of those who lead us.

    I say the unacceptable and objectionable because these things, unfortunately, need to be said.

    No one who aspires to a career in the public domain dare say them. Every aspiring parliamentary candidate, for instance, knows this well and such factors define their mindset before they even begin to consider the issues.

    I’ll settle for exposure of the unpublished facts relating to 9/11 and 7/7. Many high-ranking military men have come out on first these issues. Most remain, sadly, like our very nervous parliamentary hopefuls, afraid to voice this particular kind of concern.

    When the truth is out, we’ll see where your hysterical screeching of the charge ‘anti-semite’ gets you then.

  • Yakoub Islam

    Thanks for the kind feedback. There are a few links to steampunk blogs on my site, or see Jeff Vandermeer’s ‘The Steampunk Bible’. Craig will perhaps remember my fellow Huddersfieldian Wilf Lunn, the crackpot inventor from BBC VisionOn, whom I gather is now allied to steampunk.

  • angrysoba

    “Answer a few questions yourself for once you brainwashed creep.”
    Let’s hear some then…
    “You need to see people who ask such questions as vicious and hate-filled. Actually I am not.”
    I think you’ll have to let the rest of us be the judge of that. So far it doesn’t look like your protestations are working yet.
    “I don’t hate Jews. In fact, by the by, just about all my heroes are Jews for what it’s worth.”
    That’s original. And would butter not melt in your mouth too?
    “My objection is to the a) ideology and b) objectives of c) those who lead us.”
    a) Jewish ideology b) Enslaving the gentiles? c) The Jews?
    “I say the unacceptable and objectionable because these things, unfortunately, need to be said.”
    You recycle the same old anti-Semitic cliches that have been heard since the Christian Church embarked on campaigns of anti-Semitism in the medieval period. It isn’t big, it isn’t brave and it isn’t clever. Also, it is not from lack of knowledge that people don’t believe in your nonsense anymore than the fact that it isn’t ignorance of the world that prevents people buying into David Icke’s lizard men rulers of the world, Lyndon LaRouche’s nutty theories of the drug-dealing Queen of England, Robert Welch’s belief that Eisenhower was a card-carrying Communist Party member, Anatoly Golitsyn’s Long Term Deception Plan, the post-trial survival of the Knights Templar, the Illuminati’s control of the world. Theories like yours are ten-a-penny and they have a hideous, historical, blood-soaked legacy: stories of Jews, lepers and Muslims poisoning the wells, Jews using the blood of Christian children for passover matzohs, the Protocols of the Elders of Zion – which your theories uncannily resemble.

  • angrysoba

    “I’ll settle for exposure of the unpublished facts relating to 9/11 and 7/7. Many high-ranking military men have come out on first these issues.”
    Weasel words. Name some of these high-ranking military men.

  • Kevin Boyle

    Dr. Alan Sabrosky, former director of studies at the US Army War College for one.
    Gordon Duff, director of Veterans Today for another.
    Es CIA man Robert Baer for another. There are plenty more.

    No harm is wished to Jews. It is possible to say these things and merely wish that powerful Jews would stop doing so much harm to the rest of us.
    Sayanim are well-trained. Notice the method. Never defend an argument. Never explain. Always attack. Get the opponent to justify themselves then attack their statements and their integrity.
    Here is all you need to know about internet racism is an article by US veterans Gordon Duff, published just today.
    The treasonous betrayals of organised Jewry are protected in parliament and the mainstream media by crude money power. Ownership.
    The internet poses a trickier problem. It is here than an army of ‘Angrysobas’ exercise their singular interest.
    This individual has NO INTEREST in your well-being nor in the truth about who murdered the people in New York and London.
    Quite the reverse.
    He has a single interest. Using the verbal ammunition built up by the last 40 years of relentless mainstream media propaganda against anyone who connects Israel or organised Jewry with the vicious trajectory of world politics or the subjugation by debt of our people.
    Angrysoba provides ample evidence by the nature of his own contributions that there really is such a thing as ‘organised Jewry’.
    He is certainly an element in this very real, very coherent entity.
    It exhibits total loyalty to the interests of its own kind and total carelessness to the interests of the rest of us.
    It is a spiritual entity that possesses us.
    We are controlled by this entity.
    If that is not obvious to you, then you must be asleep.
    Here is the demon that Christ defeated by His resurrection.
    It cannot afflict a spirit of Love.
    It cannot afflict a spirit of Truth.
    But it can possess the spirits of those who have abandoned seriousness about both.
    If opposing this group makes me ‘anti-Semitic’ then I plead guilty.
    (though, of course, they are not Semites)
    Revelations 3:9……”Behold, I will make them of the synagogue of Satan, which say they are Jews, and are not, but do lie; behold, I will make them to come and worship before your feet, and to know that I have loved you.”

  • angrysoba

    Gordon Duff is a well-known loon and “Veterans Today” is a one-man band. Was Gordon Duff a “high-ranking military man”? Is Alan Sabrosky a “high-ranking military man”?

    By the way, Robert Baer does not think 9/11 was an inside job. And I expect he would be horrified at your attempts to conscript him to your loony beliefs.
    By the way, quoting the Bible is pretty useless if the person you are talking to or those you hope to read your posts don’t find the Bible authoritative.

  • angrysoba

    And I am still not clear about your argument. Are you saying that all those fascist types who comment on your blog are actually “false flag” accounts set up by “Organized Jewry” and therefore ironically proving that the anti-Semitic bilge that those crafty Jews are putting there is, in fact, correct? In fact, logically doesn’t that make YOU part of the Jewish conspiracy?
    Do you not see the flaw in your logic? Anything considered to be viscious anti-Semitism is fake and planted by Jews hence viscious anti-Semitism is understandable. I really wonder what it is like to go through life trying to believe in these mutually contradictory things.

  • Suhayl Saadi

    Yakoub, I remember that chap from Vision On – the ‘mad professor’ – what a wonderful programme that was, so surreal, so utterly tangential – so he’s into ‘steampunk too?! Brilliant! But for those of us who have not heard of it before, please could you explain what ‘steampunk’ is? Thanks.

  • Suhayl Saadi

    I think you’ll find that Angrysoba is more likely to say, “Sayonara” than “Sayanim”. There was a vigorously pro-Israel Christian Evangelical type who called himself ‘Michael Petek’ who descended upon this blog for a while around the time of the ‘Mavi Maramara’ incident and now it seems we have had the pleasure of meeting ‘Kevin Boyle’ who, from the opposite end of the same spectrum, quotes from scripture with gay abandon and also tries to link these quotes with contemporary geopolitics via Mediaeval caricature. Coolly analysing and critiquing Israel’s very real support networks (of which the Israeli state boasts constantly) and its policies and the US-Israel interaction is one thing; dovetailing this type of critique with ‘all the ills of the world’, with some kind of supposed omnipotence and with Biblical exegesis, concepts of Satan, the Great Beast and the Four Horsemen of the Apocalypse is quite another. If you want all that, rather than immerse yourself in ‘Fairy Tales of How the Jews Control Us and Pray to the Devil at Sunrise’, best to buy Aphrodite’s Child’s brilliant album, ‘666’ – singer, Demis Roussos; it also features Irene Papas vocalising an orgasm (so possibly not the sort of music one would play while having the vicar over for tea) – and howl away into the endless night.

  • technicolour

    Suhayl; Angrysoba: thumbs up. A resounding raspberry to Kevin, despite his peculiarly apt surname.

    Talmud quotes inexplicably missing from his little list:

    “Whoever destroys a single life is as guilty as though he had destroyed the entire world; and whoever rescues a single life earns as much merit as though he had rescued the entire world”

    “The highest form of wisdom is kindness”

    and (again, rather apt)

    “You can educate a fool, but you cannot make him think”

  • Azra

    Technicolour, Quran says the same thing “Whoever destroys a single life is …..

  • angrysoba

    Thanks Suhayl and technicolour. And that album sounds fascinating. I wonder what happens if you play the vinyl album backwards; maybe you can hear angelic messages, kittens miaowing and rainbows climbing high.
    As it happens I am currently reading Diarmaid MacCulloch’s A History of Christianity which has a bit of background on John the Divine’s Revelation. It was written at a time of major strife between Jews and Christians while both groups suffered quite a bit under the Roman emperor Domitian. And both religions have throughout their history delighted in ex-communicating, if not outright persecuting and killing those of rival sects. Adherents of the three big Abrahamic religions can’t stop calling those of other sects fake this and thats and then stoning each other to death, burning each other at the stake, dunking each other in water. Goodness me! Some of it is a thoroughly un-Christian carry-on; I can’t imagine what would happen if Kevin Boyle and Michael Petek were to run into each other at mass.
    It’s interesting that Mr Boyle takes the view that the Pharisees were to blame for everything. MacCulloch is of the view that Jesus, being Jewish and all that, was actually closer to the Pharisees sect than the Sadducees sect and liked nothing better than a bit of heated debate and Sadducee-ribbing, although he probably hated being labelled himself. And while some Christian thinkers tried to escape the Jewish canonical writings that went before Jesus such as Marcion and the Gnostics the branch of Christianity that is the common ancestor of just about all Christianity today is from Paul, who was himself a Pharisee.
    As for all the moneylending and usury that gets people hot under the collar MacCulloch points out that while Jews were often “tolerated” in Christian Western Europe (as what might be called dhimmis in Islamic lands) they were so often barred from mainstream society and had to find other means of making a living that money lending became one of the few ways that was acceptable – it being prohibited for Christians. In England, Jews were not given the protection of the Magna Carta and when Edward I ran short of cash (he spent lots of money on jolly japes to Jerusalem – Crusades – to kill Muslims) he just taxed his personal private property, the Jews, for the money they had until the money ran dry and they were no longer of any use. He turned to Parliament for the cash which demanded that they would do so only if he kicked out the Jews. To be fair Edward had tried everything to convert them to the one true loving faith of Kevin Boyle’s by executing 300 of them and forcing them to attend Mass but it didn’t work!
    I can only hope that Kevin Boyle is simply ignorant of this history and he simply doesn’t realize that his talk of how the “usurous Pharisees” and their “synagogue of Satan” is exactly the kind of talk that led peaceful meek and mild angel-loving Christians to become foam-flecked murderous loons.
    There’s also a similar story to this which was made into a film that was popular in mid- to late-1930s Germany called Jud Süß which seems to hit all the emotional buttons that might appeal to Mr Boyle.

  • Suhayl Saadi

    Playing ‘666’ backwards – I’ve never tried it! Perhaps I ought not to, as the world might dissolve in a double-rainbow. Interesting, angrysoba, wrt that book you’re reading. Yes, Monty Python had it about right wrt all of the Abrahamic faiths in this thematic area. Think: Stones and pyres. ‘Kevin Boyle-meets-Michael-Petek: Rumble In the Jungle’ – I can’t wait! But who would be ‘Don King’? Technicolour, possibly…?? (!) Oh no, shouldn’t have said that! Sound of big foot descending… arghhhhh!!! Squelch.

  • Jaded.

    Craig knows the truth about 9/11 and 7/7 in my opinion. He must have his reasons for not pushing it. I have been active online for a number of years in relation to truth. What I can say, without a shadow of a doubt, is there is a large snowball rolling down a hill and it’s getting bigger and faster and it simply won’t stop. Even in the last 6 months I have noticed the increase in numbers making pertinent comments, especially on Youtube. Moreover, I would say that hundreds of thousand now see and fully acknowledge the use of government shills online, especially the Tel Aviv ‘I Fight From My Momma’s Basement Brigade’. This level of awareness was miles away even 2 years ago. The freaks that really hold power surely know this and that is why they are accelerating their agenda. They aren’t going to sod off quietly and it’s going to be a rough and bloody ride. I expect the issue of internet freedom to become critical in the next 12 months. Anyone else notice that spate of hacking stories in recent weeks? We all need to be protected from these evil, terrorist hackers of course… 🙂

    For the record, I am a pacifist and just say it as I see it.

  • angrysoba

    It is funny to see this, “I have been active online for a number of years in relation to truth.”
    …in the same post as this:
    “the Tel Aviv ‘I Fight From My Momma’s Basement Brigade’.”
    “I expect the issue of internet freedom to become critical in the next 12 months.”
    Congratulations, you’re only about ten years behind the curve.
    And that’s not bad given that the Internet was a fledgling technology not long before that. In other words you see repression everywhere because you and the rest of mankind have never had so much access to information in history and now that you have this much access the only thing you really fear is not having it.

  • YugoStiglitz

    It’s hilarious that 911 truthers more and more every year entertain the delusion that the public is WAKING UP to their silly conspiracy theories. This quite fittingly coincides with the increasing irrelevance of 911 truthers.

    If you people can’t convince Craig Murray, who is about as reflexively anti-American as they come, then you’re just hopeless.

  • YugoStiglitz

    Heh Jaded, you’re a pathetic paranoid loser. More and more every year, your basic thoughts about the world are considered stupid. You just don’t get how irrelevant you are.

    19 Arab Muslims did 911. Get over it.

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