Anti-Scottish Propaganda 153


I guess we are in for a full three years of anti-Scottish lies from the mainstream media. One of the most common unionist lies is that Spain would veto Scottish independence, as claimed in today’s Independent. This canard has been about for years and is assiduously spread by unioinists. I have discussed it in the past with senior Spanish diplomats, and they have been unanimous that it is impossible that Spain would seek to veto Scottish membership.

Firstly, nobody in the EU has ever left the EU voluntarily, let alone been expelled, and the idea that 5 million EU citizens in a stongly pro-EU country would be thrown out against their will is not in the realm of practical politics. The whole dynamic of the EU is expansive, with countries continually accepted into membership who technically should not be. Everybody knows, for example, that Romania and Bulgaria were not remotely close to compliance with the acquis communitaire when they were admitted. There is no appetite anywhere in the EU to argue that an EU member successor state would have to re-apply.

Secondly, Scots are much liked internationally. There is a strong popular understanding throughout Europe of Scottish desire for independence – bagpipes, Braveheart and a separate football team are an intrinsic part of this strong Scottish popular recognition. There are no votes in Europe in being beastly to the Scots, and that includes Spain. The Spanish government are not stupid. It would be very unpopular in Spain to act against the Scots, and would infuriate the Catalans and actually boost the independence movement there. Tactically, there are times when it is best to pretrend to be relaxed about self-determination, as Cameron is doing.

Thirdly, there is a real difference here with the Kossovans. Spain does not oppose Slovenia, Croatia or other parts of the former Yugoslavia from EU membership. It did not oppose the Czech Republic or Slovakia. Spain does not automatically argue against EU membership for splitting states – that is a lie spread by English unionists. Unlike Kossovo, the Scottish state is not inextricably linkes with organised crime, and is not outside the EU.

Finally, as an example of Unionist lies and tricks, read the Independent article very carefully. You will see that the anaonymous “source” of the claim that Spain will veto Scottish EU membership is not anything to do with the Spanish government, but a Whitehall official.

The actual headline of the article should be:

“Whitehall Official Lies that Spain Would Veto Scottish EU Membership”.


153 thoughts on “Anti-Scottish Propaganda

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  • Ben Franklin

    “What “load” are you referring to?”

    Military spending worldwide, but you can disregard my cloudburst. I was shot-gunning the same load of specious mule shit dispensed by ‘Guest’

  • nuid

    “What “load” are you referring to?”
    .
    Oh I think he’s referring to the entire “defense” of “the West”. Reminds me of the Newt the other night, during his victory speech in S Carolina: “We fought and won WWII in three years”.

  • nuid

    “Defence of the West from what?”
    .
    Exactly. The US military budget is all about aggression. Grab whatever you can, wherever you can, and to hell with the begrudgers. But Ben Franklin will still whine “Who’s been carrying your load?”

  • Fedup

    Defence of the West from what?
    From Americans, cuz no one else is bent on Empireing around.
    ,
    ,
    Think about it, US lives off the business of printing money, why should it;s administration, ought not be set up so that the dollars are recirculated back into the accounts of Oligarchs who own the political apparatchiks masquerading as the political leadership in the other occupied territories (Capitol Hill) ?
    ,
    Never mind $687*10^9, Rumsfeld Pentagon could not account for $2*10^12 as per the comptrollers’ accounts on the 10/9/01 (the day before). Corruption at these levels is the legacy of US. Think about this last paragraph we are talking the “good old days” when dollar was not as worthless as now, and gold was actually traded around $300 an ounce.

  • Guest

    “I was shot-gunning”
    .
    You couldn`t make it up!!!.
    Ben Franklin, just stick to what you do best…copy and paste posts.

  • Ben Franklin

    Holy Moly.

    I never (well, it’s a rarity) see citations for the arguments I see here. Is bloviation considered fact in the sub-culture extant?

    Because I hear some pretty important stuff, if it can be documented, that is. And. that doesn’t mean the gas you leak out your arse is somehow scented.

  • nuid

    O/T
    “The Only Guilty Marine in the Haditha Massacre Faces Three Months in Jail”
    http://www.theatlanticwire.com/national/2012/01/guilty-marine-haditha-massacre-faces-three-months-jail/47740/
    .
    “In a Camp Pendleton courtroom, a judge finally sentenced the last of the eight Marines accused of murdering two dozen Iraqi civilians in Haditha, ten of whom were women and children.
    .
    “After striking a plea bargain that reduced the charge from murder to “voluntary manslaughter, aggravated assault and dereliction of duty stemming from the November 19, 2005” event, Staff Sergeant Frank Wuterich pleaded guilty and now “faces a maximum sentence of three months of confinement, forfeiture of two-thirds of his pay for three months and a reduction in rank when he is sentenced on Tuesday,” according to Reuters.
    .
    “Understandably, human rights activists were not pleased with the result. “S[a]vagely murder Iraqi men, women, children and elderly then agree to a plea deal for minimal jail time,” one tweeted after news of Wuterich’s plea. “This is America’s ‘justice’.”

  • crab

    I shouldnt talk about nationalists and unionists, never works out for me. Can the Independent get away with not being corrected on this claim? iirc there is alot of blackening the name and the tactics of the other side in this overall debate. Nationalism with its aggreivable footings in historical losses. Dont listen to me, you need to make the debate as positive as possible, no use sounding bitter.
    .
    Suhayl – i read your carefuly relevantly plugged book review for “Bombay Baby” in the Scotsman concerning Indian Scots, and I voted to watch the muppets remake in the webpoll at the side of the page. -Superb
    .
    Quick ot. Mil spend summary from the sipri records here – http://milexdata.sipri.org/
    Military spending trend 2000 to 2010: dollar mean , GDP mean
    .
    Iran $10 billion, GDP 2.5 % to 4 %
    UK $53 billion, 2.5% GDP
    US $375 billion in 2000, steadily rising to 690 billion in 2010, 3% to 4.7% GDP

  • Mary

    Nuid. Haditha. Terrible – little ones shot dead too.
    .
    House #1— 7 killed, 2 injured (but survived), 2 escaped
    1. Abdul Hamid Hassan Ali, 76—grandfather, father and husband. Died with nine rounds in the chest and abdomen.
    2. Khamisa Tuma Ali, 66—wife of Abdul Hamid Hassan Ali
    3. Rashid Abdul Hamid, 30.
    4. Walid Abdul Hamid Hassan, 35.
    5. Jahid Abdul Hamid Hassan, middle-aged man.
    6. Asma Salman Rasif, 32.
    7. Abdullah Walid, 4.
    Injured: Iman, 8, and Abdul Rahman, 5.
    Escaped: Daughter-in-law, Hiba, escaped with 2-month-old Asia
    .
    House #2— 8 killed, 1 survivor: Shot at close range and attacked with grenades
    8. Younis Salim Khafif, 43—husband of Aida Yasin Ahmed, father.
    9. Aida Yasin Ahmed, 41—wife of Younis Salim Khafif, killed trying to shield her youngest daughter Aisha.
    10. Muhammad Younis Salim, 8—son.
    11. Noor Younis Salim, 14—daughter.
    12. Sabaa Younis Salim, 10—daughter.
    13. Zainab Younis Salim, 5—daughter.
    14. Aisha Younis Salim, 3—daughter.
    15. A 1-year-old girl staying with the family.
    Survived: Safa Younis Salim, 13.
    .
    House #3— 4 brothers killed
    16. Jamal Ahmed, 41.
    17. Marwan Ahmed, 28.
    18. Qahtan Ahmed, 24.
    19. Chasib Ahmed, 27.
    .
    Taxi—5 killed: Passengers were students at the Technical Institute in Saqlawiyah
    20. Ahmed Khidher, taxi driver.
    21. Akram Hamid Flayeh.
    22. Khalid Ayada al-Zawi.
    23. Wajdi Ayada al-Zawi.
    24. Mohammed Battal Mahmoud.
    Source: United for Peace and Justice[22]

    .
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haditha_killings
    .
    Trial 2012
    During the trial Sgt. Sanick Dela Cruz testified that he urinated on the skull of one of the dead Iraqis.[60] He also testified after describing how Wuterich shot the passengers of the car himself from close range ,”Sergeant Wuterich approached me and told me if anyone asks, the Iraqis were running away from the car and the Iraqi army shot them,”.

  • Mary

    From medialens
    .
    Oliver Stone on Ron Paul
    Posted by gabriele on January 24, 2012, 8:52 am
    .
    RCM: In Our History you ask if there’s “a potential wild card in an internal economic collapse of the empire”? Is America an empire? And if so, do you foresee the fall of the empire?
    .
    OS: Yes. Yes, both. I don’t think it’s a wild card, I think it’s a given. There’s no way that we can continue this spending spree. In fact, I think in many ways the most interesting candidate – I’d even vote for him if he was running against Obama – is Ron Paul. Because he’s the only one of anybody who’s saying anything intelligent about the future of the world.
    .
    http://www.rockcellarmagazine.com/2012/01/12/director-oliver-stone-on-history-and-america-jim-morrison-ron-paul/

  • Azra

    Clark, I read that on PRess TV website while ago, could not find the link again. Basically what it said it was expected that by end of 2012, the trade will reach 20 billions.

  • Mary

    24 January 2012 Last updated at 00:36
    .
    Alex Salmond to deliver annual Hugo Young lecture
    Alex Salmond will give a lecture the day before his referendum statement to MSPs
    First Minister Alex Salmond is to argue England will benefit from an independent Scotland.
    .
    Giving the Hugo Young lecture in London, Mr Salmond will say Scotland can be a “beacon for progressive opinion south of the border”.
    .
    He will say Scotland’s current constitutional position means it cannot innovate as much as he would like.
    .
    The SNP leader will return to Scotland on Wednesday to make public his plans for a referendum on independence.
    .
    The lecture is in its eighth year and was set up in honour of Hugo Young – a Guardian columnist who died in 2003.
    .
    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-16682648

  • Mary

    Cleggover ”It is fantastic news that McDonald’s is creating 2,500 new jobs in the UK – and that over half of these posts will go to young people.’
    .
    Yeah right. Graduates serving burgers and chips and the other junk.
    .
    David Cameron and Nick Clegg served up generous helpings of praise to fast food giant McDonald’s after it pledged to create at least 2,500 new UK jobs this year.
    http://www.thisismoney.co.uk/money/news/article-2091009/Cameron-Clegg-hail-promise-2-500-new-UK-jobs–McDonalds.html?ito=feeds-newsxml

  • bigbuachaille

    I wonder how many people are aware of just jhow fervently Westminster is desperately seeking to divide and rule in an attempt to keep hold of the oil. Amendments to the Scotland Bill by Lord Caithness refer to removal of the Northern Isles from the Scottish Referendum, the ownership of the offshore island, Rockall and the final decision on Scottish Independence residing with the Prime Minister of the UK.
    Here are the 3 amendments:
    1. “A vote in a referendum held under subsection (2B) of this section which results in Scotland leaving the United Kingdom shall not be binding on the residents of the Orkney Islands or the Shetland Islands unless a majority of the residents of the Orkney Islands and the Shetland Islands who voted in such a referendum voted that Scotland should leave the United Kingdom.

    2. Rockall is owned by the United Kingdom and, in the event of Scotland leaving the United Kingdom, it shall be owned by the United Kingdom.”

    3. If a referendum held under subsection (2) results in a “yes” vote, the Prime Minister shall cause a further referendum, with the same question, to be held throughout the United Kingdom.”

    These amendments to the Scotland Bill were made by Lord Caithness, hereditary peer and Tory politician.

  • Azra

    @Mary, your post reminded me of a young lady whom I met on the train 3 years ago, she had been for an assessment test with DWP for an 18 months fixed term contract. She had a Post Grad degree in History, and said since graduating she had been flippping burgers in Burger King, she also told me there were 700 applicant for the 10 or so posts available, among them engineers, surveryors and many graudates.
    Yes, we can send more of them to McDonalds…

  • Bungo

    Marine gets three months in jail for massacring two dozen civilians
    ,
    More than six years after Staff Sergeant Frank Wuterich led a squad of Marines into two Haditha, Iraq homes and massacred two dozen civilians, the American serviceman in charge has reached a plea deal.
    For nine counts of manslaughter, Wuterich will get three months of confinement.
    ,
    Photo included; the all American Hero, United States Marine Staff Sgt. Frank Wuterich arrives for his arraignment at Camp Pendleton, California January 9, 2008.
    ,
    Saddam was a dictator, he had weapons of mass destruction he was going to nuke us in UK in forty five minutes. Now free Iraqis can enjoy their eternal rest and peace and apple pies and democracy, thanks to United States Marine Staff Sgt. Frank Wuterich.
    ,

  • Clark

    Mark Golding, there are Free Software (GPL) replacements for some routers’ firmware, reputed to be more secure than the firmware supplied. The Netgear DG834G is a very common router for which free firmware can be downloaded.

  • Ken W

    “I ain’t out to change the minds of nationalists bigots like yourself…Whatever, would make you that?”

    Mr Murray supports Scottish Independence and you are posting on his blog under an article on that subject. Perhaps you are out to change the mind of “nationalist bigots” like him? Otherwise you are merely trolling.
    .
    When you get the sponge out of your mouth, feel free to come up with some sort of reasoned argument instead of waffling nonsense.

  • ingo

    Staff sgt. Wuterich must be watching his back after his three month stint, minus the time knocked off for good behaviour, cause he shows all the signs of brainwashed pathological killer who will do it again. The survivors of Haditha have scorn heaped upon their grief and afaic, have every right for revenging this killing now that its obvious that there is no justice for them to be gotten in courts.

  • Jon

    Mark_Golding – o/t, if you want to secure your router further, do these things:
    .
    * Set a complex wifi password
    * Change the default username/password of the router admin screen
    * Use the latest security system it offers, like WPA2.
    * Lock it down to only allow computers with specified MAC addresses to connect (this is super-secure)
    * If you have any always-on computers connected to your router, ensure all their file shares are well-passworded and firewalled.
    .
    Also, remember that whilst activists need to be careful, most unrecognised wifi traffic is either background noise or a cheeky neighbour not wanting to pay for their own internet. My wifi indicator blinks continuously, but since I am well-protected, I don’t worry about it.

  • nuid

    I recommend Glenn Greenwald on the subject of American “justice” – regarding three cases (including Haditha) from only the past 24 hours:
    {http://www.salon.com/2012/01/24/rules_of_american_justice_a_tale_of_three_cases/singleton/}
    .
    American ‘justice’? Corrupted beyond belief. (Americans? Don’t notice.)
    .
    Meanwhile, as you probably know, the Irish people thought the 1916 rebels were daft — that is, until the British executed 15 who were identified as leaders, in Kilmainham Jail. (I’ve stood on the spot where they died.) No doubt London will do something equally stupid (not equally violent) before the Scottish referendum which will swing the vote for the nationalists. N’est ce pas?
    .
    Just don’t do what we did for god’s sake – pander to Europe. Our government is not only about to pay 1.2 billion Euro owed by a now defunct bank to un-guaranteed European bondholders (with money screwed out of battered Irish taxpayers, naturally), it’s also about to break its neck to ensure the Irish don’t get a referendum on the upcoming treaty which will effectively remove our remaining sovereignty. Talk about doffing your cap. This is not what the men of 1916 fought and died for. (And while they moan on Twitter, Irish people are NOT out on the streets, not in Greek numbers anyway.)
    .
    “Zombie banks are dragging Ireland into the ground”
    http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2012/jan/24/zombie-banks-ireland-debts-cancelled
    .
    [I disagree with the title – the current Irish government hasn’t got the balls to say “F*ck off”.]

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