I am off to Baghdad on Sunday for an Arab League conference on Palestinian detainees held in Israel. This is part of my determination to devote more of my time to helping the Palestinian cause. It seems to me we are at a crucial point where the Palestinians are in genuine danger of an accelerated genocide, as Israeli intentions to annex Est Jerusalem and the West Bank become ever plainer.
In retrospect, my life has mostly been based on the idea that I may not be able to do much to help in a particular situation, but it is incumbent on me to try. So I am trying.
A “two state” solution has, from the start, been advanced in bad faith by promoters such as Blair and Bush, with the intention always that it would be a Bantustan solution. For those too young to recall, the grand plan of apartheid South Africa was that the black population would be corraled into a number of small regions which would become “independent states”.
I have said before that I am often pleasantly surprised by Sky News security correspondent Sam Kiley, who seems to get away with talking great sense by hiding behind a Ross Kemp style persona. A couple of days ago he reported from the West Bank that Israel was “moving towards an apartheid state”. There is no doubt that is true – even in Israel proper, there are over three hundred ethnically based Israeli laws prescribing different treatment for Jews and others, across almost every activity of the state. I fear Sam Kiley will not be on mainstream TV long – a tendency to tell the truth being career fatal.
Bibi’s desire to kill off the two state solution is a terrible, genocidal threat but strangely also an opportunity. Botha and De Klerk did not succeed, and Bibi may not either. I personally would have deplored a Bantustan based solution, with crammed and split Palestinian lands deprived of resources, water, communications and any hope of economic viability.
The ultimate solution must involve a proper single state in Israel/Palestine which is blind and fair in its laws to race and religion. That solution can ultimately bring security to the people of Israel, not based on their ability to kill or evict their neighbours and steal their land. The essentials of the agreement will have to be most people staying where they are – including most West Bank settlers – and very serious compensation to dispossessed Palestinians, with the settlements enlarged to become mixed communities.
On the Palestinian detainee question, for me it shows up yet again Israel’s extraordinary capacity for shameless sophistry in matters of international law. Israel justifies its naval blockade on the San Remo Convention, which is only applicable in times of armed conflict. Israel states that it is in a de facto permanent armed conflict. However it denies being in an armed conflict when it comes to its treatment of Palestinain detainees, captured outside Israel, who are not treated as prisoners of war. Both positions cannot be held simultaneously, but secure in the collusion of the West’s bought politicians, Israel does so.
Jon
No. It’s not a nonsense to say that action is always in the interests of the elite.
You’re almost saying it yourself. The fundamental point is that you won’t get anything unless the elite allows it, as in your cases mentioned above, and indeed the cases I mentioned – post war working class power, South Africa and N Ireland.
The reason it’s important to understand that is because it’s to them you need to direct your energy rather than wasting time in debate. They don’t do debate. They do power, so that’s the mechanism you use.
They’re not going to debate the rights and wrongs of an issue until it’s in their interests to do so and by then it won’t be debate it’ll be a new propaganda to replace the old.
What is it about this that you don’t understand.
The Jews of Iraq
by Naeim Giladi
The Link interviewed Naeim Giladi, a Jew from Iraq, for three hours on March 16, 1998, two days prior to his 69th birthday. For nearly two other delightful hours, we were treated to a multi-course Arabic meal prepared by his wife Rachael, who is also Iraqi. “It’s our Arab culture,” he said proudly.
In our previous Link, Israeli historian Ilan Pappe looked at the hundreds of thousands of indigenous Palestinians whose lives were uprooted to make room for foreigners who would come to populate confiscated land. Most were Ashkenazi Jews from Eastern Europe. But over half a million other Jews came from Islamic lands. Zionist propagandists claim that Israel “rescued” these Jews from their anti-Jewish, Muslim neighbors. One of those “rescued” Jews-Naeim Giladi-knows otherwise.
In his book, Ben Gurion’s Scandals: How the Haganah & the Mossad Eliminated Jews, Giladi discusses the crimes committed by Zionists in their frenzy to import raw Jewish labor. Newly-vacated farmlands had to be plowed to provide food for the immigrants and the military ranks had to be filled with conscripts to defend the stolen lands. Mr. Giladi couldn’t get his book published in Israel, and even in the U.S. he discovered he could do so only if he used his own money.
The Giladis, now U.S. citizens, live in New York City. By choice, they no longer hold Israeli citizenship. “I am Iraqi,” he told us, “born in Iraq, my culture still Iraqi Arabic, my religion Jewish, my citizenship American.”
http://www.bintjbeil.com/E/occupation/ameu_iraqjews.html
Cryptonym
‘The impression I’ve gained from mostly alternative media is that Mursi is a western stooge’.
I think that’s the impression they want you to have.
Political Islam is trying to present itself as a counter-status quo force while at the same time collaborating 100% with the status quo.
Look, from an Islamic point of view there’s not much difference between any of the religions that say that God uses others to manifest himself through.
They are selling their jihad against Assad as a crusade against the Shi’a. But they are colluding with the christians to do it.
UK forced are currently on the ground in Syria and the SAS chap who was let off for retaining weaponry in his home was classed openly as a sniper in Syria.
Technically what this means is that the criteria for their jihad is political not Islamic, and therefore worthless. I know that Atheists here find that distinction boring or irrelevant.
But as they say, FitzWilliam Fitz Herbert and vice versa . They are collaborating to achieve a collective share in Global power, not seeking the pleasure of Allah in promoting the interests of Islam. And a lot of innocent people are being murdered in the process which they like and we condemn.
Comments above about lie-detector tests seem apocryphal.
Interpretation is everything, in the process of finding the subject’s truths.
Micro-expressions are universal. They cross cultural boundaries and cannot be faked to an expert.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Microexpressions
@Anon
I do not doubt the assassin subject’s authenticity at all. But to conclude that the context did not effect his behavior contradicts all expert opinion on hypnotism.
Brown is a ruthless top notch entertainer. He knows his audience and will do anything to leave them gasping.
lwtc247, that’s looks an interesting read, thanks for that.
As the Qatar monarchy is amongst those funding the madness in Syria and obviously a bad lot. It is interesting that Scottish Borders Council is at present considering a planning application from them, for a development of a falconry centre almost straddling the Scotland/England border.
http://www.itv.com/news/border/story/2012-11-14/falconry-centre-plans/
Should this be encouraged?
@Jon,
I watched Defamation years ago, (it was I that mentioned it earlier on this thread), so I’m well aware of the paranoid/supremistic indoctrination that Israelis are subject to from a very early age, and yes it plays a role, witness the 90+% support amongst Israelis for both Cast Lead & the latest Gaza murder spree. However two points; this is not a factor iro non Israeli Zionists supporters, and secondly, propaganda can never consciously override a person’s natural sense of right & right, but it can certainly reinforce & supplement existing prejudices; if Israel is a country where 90% of the population are indeed paraniod psychotics, then clearly there will never be a negotiated settlement, and the World, for its own sake, as well as future generations of Israelis, should declare Israel a failed State, a Frankenstein experiment gone wrong. People with an intact moral conscience will at the very least acknowledge, and will often oppose, injustice & cruelty regardless of peer pressure or state propaganda, as the passport burning Americans did during Vietnam. Those Israelis who support the inhumanity committed against Palestinians, cannot as some WW2 Germans tried to do, claim ignorance.
(Sorry this is a bit rushed & unchecked as I’m running late & for to rush out for a bit)
Cryptonym
In my opinion the funding of the Syrian disaster is the money that has been eased out of our banks over the last 30 years. The infamous term quantitive easing for putting it back again implies that the use of the missing money was innocent of malicious intent. It was just quantities.
The supporters of the Zio-banksters on this blog like Resident Dissident, have tried to scare Craig into forcing commentators not to make the connection between Arab Petrodollar cash, Zio-bankers, and NATO Global power. But US=UK=IS= Russia/China=PI political Islam. This is a complete cover up the criminal activity of the main players.
It’s not those mad Arabs Wahabbis Saudis Nutters wot dunnit. It’s nice little UK M.P.s like Gordon Brown and David Cameron who try and split hairs about the morality of hacking into the mobiles of private citizens. Ever heard of high people straining gnats?
What about hacking the citizens of Pakistan, Iraq, Syria and Libya which they funded and sent UK troops to supervise?
It just looks better in our newspapers to say that Arabs did it, rather than bankers from leafy UK suburbs, elected UK politicians and all the criminals of the Muslim world, sitting on benefits in West London under political asylum.
Fred : of course you’re free to choose for yourself whether you use your own words to make a point or whether you use someone else’s if you feel that the point’s better made there.
But of course it would be helpful if the quotation you borrow to make your point was apposite. If your quotation from Nietzsche was apposite, you would in effect be saying “by identifying a hasbara-merchant as such and giving him a good kicking, you become, or are as bad as, the hasbara-merchant himself”.
And that is nonsense, as I’m sure you’ll agree.
Komodo : the point of the analogy was as follows (was I so unclear?).
In the present Middle East conflict, the Palestinians are the aggrieved parties.
In WW2, the Poles, French and British were the aggrieved parties.
Nobody (or virtually nobody) amoung the aggrieved WW2 parties said “oh yes, of course we see where Mr Hitler is coming from and we must have understanding for him and therefore let us seek the middle ground, and we of course understand that we also shall have to make painful concessions”. They could have done – it would have passed your practicality test, wouldn’t it, Komodo? – but they didn’t (and not just not in 1945).
This is why I have little patience with those here and elsewhere who advocate that the Palestinians should make painful concessions.
The last 40 years have shown that only the Palestinians make concessions, which are swiftly pocketed before new ones are demanded. Please show us the Israeli/Zionist concessions.
On second thoughts, let’s not bother; this discussion is sterile.
Phil,
Actually I’d say Derren Brown is a world leading expert in hypnosis. He is not a fan in general of “conspiracy theories” but he firmly believes it is possible and, in fact, relatively easy to program an assassin from a suitable subject – despite the supposed “accepted wisdom”.
It is also my suspicion that moral decision making capability can be turned off with the right hypnotist and the right subject – the action can play out with the subject’s conscious mind truly unaware of what is really happening – just like sleepwalking.
Ben,
Of course you are correct that far more extreme techniques were used – even some of those still documented and not destroyed detail horrifying abuse by psychiatrists with the go-ahead to do whatever they wanted if it provided useful information for the Black projects.
The project was trying to find a way to break down anyone and then reprogram them from scratch. In reality it just totally fucked the subjects up beyond repair.
But that’s the problem – even if they weren’t before the people who underwent this treatment are now seriously mentally ill. The imagination can run riot. Where the truth lies may be lost and misleading information fills in for the truth.
By the way if you want a really unhealthy pursuit try listening to the Jonestown Massacre Tapes and look into the connection with MK-Ultra, Just listen to the death tape carefully. Actually maybe not. It might make you ill to listen to it properly with decent headphones – and that’s not just for the obvious reason.
Habbabkuk
No, I wouldn’t agree.
A quick O/T, for which insincere apologies.
It appears that one of the nurses at the private King Edward Hospital who got taken in by the hoax telephone call from Australia has been found dead at her home.
A sudden natural death or random murder might reasonably be ruled out as too coincidental – which leaves the possibility of a suicide.
Feelings of overwhelming culpability? Perhaps. But it would be interesting to establish whether the hospital had sacked her or had indicated that she would be sacked. And, if this were the case, whether such a sacking would have had any effect on her residency status.
Were any of this the case, another question which might be raised is whether the Australian media people concerned might be liable to manslaughter charges.
Fred : well, I must admit that I wasn’t exactly holding my breath….
I also think that this somewhat sterile discussion should now end, but perhaps not before offering you, in view of your preference for quotations rather than own speech, the following :
“There are none so blind as those who will not see”.
Cheers, and have a nice evening!
I prefer the original:
“Hear now this, O foolish people, and without understanding, which have eyes, and see not, which have ears, and hear not.”
Johnny’s fishing video.
Gaza Fishermen After the Ceasefire
from Johnny Barber Plus 2 days ago
After the Ceasefire was agreed to by Hamas and Israel, the fishermen of Gaza were promised they could fish without fear of attack from the Israeli navy. Attacks resumed within days of the agreement.
http://vimeo.com/54973304
Herbie, thanks.
Perhaps this apparent disagreement on a side-topic is mainly semantic? The elite “allowed” a particular benefit to ordinary people because they were pushed into it by popular protest, not because they were feeling generous. At the time of the abolition of slavery the elite really were against it, and fully intended not to allow it, since a large number of politicians were set to lose a great deal of their personal net worth. But it happened anyway, and slavery in the Western world is now both rare and widely condemned (so in that sense, elite views have adjusted, thus non-slavery is “allowed”).
Anyway, I guess the core point I was making is that whatever it is that keeps ordinary British or American people back from (a) demanding social change or (b) fully understanding a political situation, is the same for ordinary Israelis too. In fact it is probably in greater measure for them, since the Israeli political apparatus has dug itself into a very desperate hole, and thus their propaganda and brainwashing is much more concerted.
So, I made references to an end peace deal in which the Palestinians would have to make some heavy concessions in the cause of peace. I would be in favour of that, and would admire any Palestinian statesman who could do it – it would be an emotionally difficult burden to bear. In one important sense it would not be fair, but if it would prevent further casualties, it might be worth it.
But, I am not saying that it is necessarily the case that the final peace agreement need end this way i.e. with the acceptance of the US. An alternative scenario is that world opinion changes against Israel so dramatically that unconditional support from Washington becomes too much of a cross to bear (or, too expensive) for the US. Maybe there will be geo-strategic shifts that force a change of preference to a different satellite state, which in turn would result in Israel being cut loose (it would have to be done pretty slowly, so the media doesn’t have to comment too honestly on the cynicism!).
On that basis, Israel would be stuffed and a two-state solution would be suddenly viable, since Palestine could ask for the 1967 borders at the very least (though the internal problem of moving on such vast areas of people is not a trivial task). The greater difficulties of making a single-state solution work would then be avoided.
But what should we press for? An unlikely holy grail that may prolong Palestinian suffering for several further decades, or a more realistic peace accord that is likely to award Israel stolen lands it does not deserve? Answer that one if you like, but it is so diabolical I’d regard it as rhetorical!
Anon; After reading up on mK Ultra/Jones I am suffering from sensory overload. I had no idea Congressman Ryan was such a good troublemaker. The connections to SLA (Cinque) and MK Ultra at Vacaville prison, were also interesting. I think anyone who probes beneath the surface of mind control as conspiracy nuttiness, would be taken aback, no matter their political stripe. Hypnotism as a feature, ignores the subterranean bugs which can be implanted. I suspect the best candidates are those without clearly defined sense of self. (soft headed?) Or is that being unkind?
Macky:
I dunno about that. Depends who you mean – if you’re not referring to members of the elite outside of Israel, then they’re subject to pretty intense propaganda too. Many non-Israeli Zionists are to be found in the US, where I’d say the media bias and the atmosphere lacking any meaningful political choices is pretty severe.
I think I disagree. In Israel, people are kept fearful and dependent on a cruel and disgraceful government, who is commanding an aggressive, morally empty and racist army. I think propaganda is an ideal vehicle for persuading most people that the government “is faced with difficult choices” and it will take actions that “defend Israel’s right to exist” etc etc. Nationalism and fakery – if it weren’t so cruel, it would be brilliant. (I’d say the propaganda works especially well in the IDF, and converts inhumanity into medals and patriotism).
Well, whilst I might differ with my choice of wording, my contention is that the Israeli people have become this way through propaganda. But I am intrigued: if it is your contention that propaganda isn’t as powerful as I believe it to be, and that simultaneously the injustices of Cast Lead et al was plain for anyone to see, then what do you believe the reason was for the levels of Israeli public support that you cite?
Re: Sock-puppets.
Would it be possible to run some checksum across the IP of posters, and give that (in hex) next to their name/date? It would work pretty much the same as one-way encryption, one couldn’t get the IP from the checksum, but the checksum would indicate a consistent IP.
“I dunno about that. Depends who you mean”
Well I meant that as far as Zionist propaganda is a factor, Zionists supporters born & raised in Israel are subjected to a far greater & more pervasive intensity of it, than those born elsewhere; yes the MSM propaganda in the US is very much pro-Israel, but despite this, and as Norman Finkelstein has pointed out, polls keep indicating that American Jews are increasingly dropping automatic support for Israel, so if this is happening from fellow-co-religionists, imagine the declining Israeli support amongst the general US population, all this in despite of the massive MSM pro-Israel propaganda.
“I think I disagree”
My point was a generic one about the innate ability to know right from wrong, being beyond the corrupting influence of propaganda; note the important qualifying word of “consciously” that I used, because if you have been brainwashed to believe something then that’s beyond propaganda, its mental damage, but if your mental faculties are fully functioning, you will always know right from wrong, because your conscience will be, er, conscious !
“what do you believe the reason was for the levels of Israeli public support that you cite?”
Well it seems that your contention is that Israeli anti-Palestinian propaganda is so effective that is can make nine out of ten Israeli support the mass murder of trapped cilvians,in fact not only support it but demand more & harsher action, and even organize panics on vantage points to cheer every explosion; however for me, the important question is what makes this propaganda, if that is what it is, so effective, because something so powerful that it enables the suppression of all natural feelings of human empathy, seems to warrant a more detailed explanation. Others have tried to formulate a term for this phenomena, Gilad Atzmon refers to it as a “cultural heritage of Tribalism”, and gets called an anti-Semite for it, by people like Ali Abunimah, who in turn uses the term ‘irrational lust for violence’, and paradoxically doesn’t get called an anti-Semite for that. The answer I believe lies in the Conceit of the Greater Good; like a devout Muslim can suppress all human empathy in order to stone a woman to death, like a Christian can withstand the horrors of martyrdom rather than renounce their Faith, like Obama can accept a collateral kill rate of 50:1, an Israeli can accept the murdering of Palestinians, all for the Greater Good. The Conceit of the Greater Good is actually an illogical response to the predicament of the Human Condition, it is not for us to know the unquantifiable Greater Good; far wiser to accept the Mystery of Life, and to chose to attenuate rather than suppress that which makes us feel alive.
Jon:
‘the Israeli political apparatus has dug itself into a very desperate hole, and thus their propaganda and brainwashing is much more concerted’.
Without wishing to be crude but wishing to be truthful only, I have observed that different nationalities indulge themselves in orgiastic excesses in different individual vices, and we are well not to judge each other for fear of being judged.
Yes the Israeli vice is to flout justice entirely, openly and wantonly in front of the entire universe. I will never forget the night I stayed ay my ex’s in order to look after my children and she spent much of the early hours moaning like a bull audible through the entire house.
I have on several occasions observed Asian Muslim businessmen in multiple financial orgy session as they revelled in openly screwing over their bank or global proprietor by deception.
Not to forget the Middle-Eastern mile-high club of political Islamists like Mursi, openly shredding the trust of those who put their faith in them to rule over them in moderation and within the confines of Islamic belief. Al-Azhar University have issued a fatwa against Mursi’s obvious expression of excess.
I will try and stay off the fish.
Mary. What you mention about the attacks resuming shows clearly the ‘Israeli’ Zionist mindset.
This ‘Israeli’ theft is NOT like anything we have seen before*. Nothing. To believe believe they can get a negotiated settlement are living are most likely deluding themselves (even myself for I myself still cling to the one-state solution). The Israyhellis’ simply take the
concessions offered to them in some negotiation, and then violate the terms of the agreement and then wait for the next set of negotiation and concessions. It’s the stuff of comedy noir.
The Israyhelli’s are NOT, repeat NOT honest brokers. After all, you can’t make a political agreement with cattle. To do so is laughable, not to mention an offense against Talmudic arrogance of self-twisted ‘chosen’ status.
* At least in times past powerful blocks of power would enter into opposition with each actively feeding their own side. But here, the Palestinians have ZERO support (certainly in the meaningful sense) of any power. This is utterly extraordinary and the is deserving of intense research as to what’s actually going on here. I find it of little surprise that it has been allowed to happen with the defacto neutering of monotheistic religious belief across the world. With the belief in God removed from the equation, the overwhelming religious element of Zionism has flourished. A resounding long term Iblitic success – which of course is nonsense as Iblis doesn’t exist – right. Ha ha!
(sorry for the bad textual composition – hazard of multitasking cum multiunderperforming)
G4S equips the apartheid wall, Israel confirms
http://electronicintifada.net/blogs/adri-nieuwhof/g4s-equips-apartheid-wall-israel-confirms
Oniel Samuel
I am amazed at how much Zionists and Nazis have in common.
Many people see the similarities in how Nazis treated Jews and how Zionist treat Palestinians. But from reading what you write I also see the similarities on how you view Jews and how Nazis view Jews.
Me and other people who do not hate Jews would say the Home Land of a German Jew would be Germany etc. But both Nazis and Zionist state it isn’t.
Craig
I have as a matter of fact.
All the ones I’ve met have been cool.
Well I don’t think I have spoken about politics with any of them though. At least I can’t remember.
Anyway, what I meant was the Zionists went there to be masters. They had equality of citizenship in the countries they came from. They wanted something more. They wanted to be the master race.
I agree with you there are some similarities between the South African and Israel. Israel was the only nation that supported South Africa’s containment of blacks in bantuistans. Because that was something Israel claimed to be offering Palestinians. But what they claim to do and what they are doing are two different issues.
A better example of the Israel plan for Palestinians would be the German final solution. The small segments of land in which Palestinians(both with and without Israeli citizenship) are being corralled in to in Gaza, West Banks and Parts of what they call Israel are better described as concentration camps then South Africa style Bantuistans.
South Africa never intended to exterminate all the Blacks or force their expulsion. Israel does in the way Nazi Germany intended in regards to the people they regarded as lesser races.
So the solution to Israel and Zionism must be the solution that was used to defeat Germany and Nazism.
Because I agree with Zionists like Oniel Samuel that the Zionist will never agree to live in one state as equals. That would defeat their whole purpose of Zionism. They will never willingly give up their positions as masters by freeing the slaves. It took a civil war in America and it took WW2 to change things in Germany. So the only solution I can see Unification of Muslim lands to what they were before the British and the French divided them up after WW1. Followed by an Invasion. And then when Zionism is defeated in the same way Nazism was defeated, then we can work form a nation where all races and people of all religions are treated as equals.
Zionists who want to go back to their Homelands in America, Russia or where ever else should be free to do so. And the ones that want to stay should be free to do so. But as equal citizens, not as the master race.
Oh there is one big difference between Zionism and Nazism. Gilad Atzmon the world famous Israeli Jazz musician stated it.
Israel compares unfavourably to Nazi Germany because Hitler closed down the Reichstag. Israel is a Democracy. This means the people in Germany shared very little blame for what Hitler did, while the Zionists that elect the Zionists that confine Palestinians in concentration camps for the sin of being there first share all the blame.
For Zionists to agree to give up all of their privileges that comes with being the master race, their must be consequences of not freeing the lesser races they rule over.
These consequences will not come from America reducing the amount of tribute it pays to Israel because AIPAC rules America. Leaders of both parties have to stand before an AIPAC audience to pay homage to Zionist and pledge their loyalty to Israel while promising to increase the payment of tribute, year on year.
Europe will still allow Israel to export to Europe Tax free, which means pretty much the same thing as the Tribute payments America pays Israel. Because it just means poor countries have to pay Israel money instead of paying import duty to European countries to sell in Europe.
This will continue because 80% of conservative MP’s have pledge their loyalty to Israel by joining the Conservative Friends of Israel, and the other two parties aren’t much different.
The solution must come from us and our boycotts, and the people of the Middle East in their efforts to remove the evil regimes that rule them, Remove the borders drawn by racist Zionists in white hall after WW1 and reunify their countries in to what they were before the British and French Invaded. And then, deal with Zionism.