As Big as Terrorism 155

The BBC are breathlessly reporting this morning, as their lead news story, that antibiotics resistance is now so huge a threat, it is on a par with terrorism.

Let us consider that for one moment:

UK deaths last year from antibiotic resistance: 5,000
Uk deaths last year fron terrorisn: nil


UK deaths last decade from antibiotic resistance: 33,000
UK deaths last decade from all terrorism: 71

This insistence of the media in ramping the “terrorist threat”, even in completely unrelated stories, is farcical. Today they also have Abu Qatada to follow up as second news story and put terrifying images of terrorist attacks perpetrated by Abu Qatada – oh sorry, there aren’t any – err terrifying images of his obviously terrorist beard on our screens.

Sky News has been running the Qatada story for three days solid, every time introducing Qatada as “the man once called Osama Bin Laden’s right hand man in Europe”. Yet no serious claim has ever been made, anywhere, that Qatada ever met Osama Bun Laden. No evidence has ever been produced that he was in communication with him, and the intelligence services have nothing that indicates that either. I could call Teresa May a hysterical evil populist Muslim-hater, but my doing so would not make it true. However I look forward to hearing “Teresa May once called a …” next time she is mentioned on Sky.

Qatada has lived in this country now for nearly 20 years and there is no evidence he has ever committed any crime in all that time here, no evidence despite his being under intense surveillance. There is no credible, untainted evidence of his having done so in Jordan either. I am perfectly prepared to believe he is somebody who holds unpleasant views. He may well be very unpleasant. Terrorist mastermind he is not.

The actual terrorist threat is at such a low level – much less than so many of us lived through in the 70’s and 80’s – that it needs incarnation to work as a demon of the mind. If Abu Qatada does get deported, the media will have to find someone else with a scarey beard to terrify children into going to bed – sorry, us into giving up our liberties and cash to our “protectors”.

Muslims – more dangerous than E. coli. Give me a break.

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155 thoughts on “As Big as Terrorism

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  • Habbabkuk (La vita è bella!)

    @ Glenn :

    if you’re being serious, then that’s a rather disappointing reply (eg “an old Catholic dude” – are you expecting a young, Lutheran woman?). I do note, however, that only the 1st para is about the Pope as person, while the other two are about the Catholic church.

    I’ve no doubt that Mary prefers to wait until we know who the new Pope is; by doing this she will be better placed to damn him by reference to someone he may once have had a conversation with, or some organisation he may once have belonged to in his youth, or that fact that he has never declared himself in favour of women priests or liberation theology…or whatever. So while thanking you for your “assistance”, I’ll await the election and Mary’s inevitable subsequent comments with great interest. Shall we make a bet that she’ll post something negative within, let’s say, 7 days of his appointment?


    La vita è bella, life is good! (Holy Father, pray for Glenn-UK)

  • Ben Franklin -Machine Gun Preacher (unleaded version)

    Manning, et al…..Yes I was duped into the meme of Pollard’s terrible crimes against the US. I should have know their tactics don’t change.

    “Now, documents that the CIA has been fighting to withhold for years, released to relatively little public notice in recent months, show that Pollard’s advocates may have been right. The documents were obtained and released by the nonprofit, private, National Security Archive. A federal panel agreed with the Archive that the CIA had no basis for continuing to withhold its 1987 Damage Assessment.

    The whole idea behind Pollard’s conviction and life sentence was that he was harming the United States by spying on it for Israel. But one recently-released CIA document, a “damage assessment” of the case from 1987, suggests that the crux of what he was collecting for Israel was not about the United States at all.

    The CIA document shows that Pollard’s Israeli handlers were particularly keen on getting information that they believed vital to Israel’s defense, including material on Egyptian missile programs, Syrian unmanned planes, and Soviet air defenses. They were especially interested in what Soviet advisers were talking to their Syrian clients about.

    The new revelations are important because they cast a more nuanced light on a hot-button issue—and give credence to the notion that even allies constantly seek to obtain information from each other that they believe essential to their own security—regardless of how they obtain it.

    The United States, naturally, never offers to discuss its constant spying on its allies, including for example, eavesdropping on them. During the run-up to the invasion of Iraq, the US spied on its allies with the help of Britain. In another instance, according to a former US military communications intercept officer, it spied on Britain itself—or rather on its then-leader, Tony Blair.”

    Read the ‘documents’ link….

  • Ben Franklin -Machine Gun Preacher (unleaded version)

    Heh. Glenn, I don’t know about you but I wouldn’t want the yoke of the Pope’s prayer choking off my afterlife. It could only hurt the venal/mortal sinner.

  • Ben Franklin -Machine Gun Preacher (unleaded version)

    I’d rather be a member of the Church of England. Henry VIII has fewer moral deficits.

  • Herbie

    It’s not totally unreasonable though to have limited expectations of the next pope, to be fair.

    They haven’t exactly had a good press, since at least the Reformation.

    And therefore I expect most people are rather sceptical about their affairs.

    They haven’t had a good pope since John XXIII, and everything since his death in 1963, has been an overturning of his human values, as represented in the second Vatican Council.

    They’re going to make him a saint. Why? Because he’s good PR for the organisation. They can publicly bask in the beauty of his values, whilst in private undermining them at every turn.

  • Fred

    “I stumbled upon this thread as it was championed by Frankie Boyle. I was appalled by the ridiculing and conceit”

    No comment.

  • bert

    Re Qatada,
    In a February 2007 High Court ruling, reference (Paragraph 70) is made to a Belgian Court hearing that Abu Qatada “appears as a watermark running through the whole of this [‘Appellant E’] case as being the mastermind, if not the commandant, of the movements propounding jihad in the West
    In a Scotsman article of July 2002 Qatada has been described by a Spanish judge as being the “spiritual head of the mujahideen in Britain”. The Scotsman article also states that Qatada was ‘living under the protection of MI5‘.
    In these days of the ‘carte blanche’ powers attributed to the police under Sections 57 & 58 of the Terrorism Act 2000 (‘possession of information useful to a terrorist’) why would the authorities NOT arrest Qatada if he was such a ‘bad tewworist’?
    There is a much deeper back-story to the whole ‘War on Terror’ which anomalous cases like Qatada’s fit in (all ‘closed evidence’ of course – in the interests of ‘national security’, of course).
    Maybe one day the backstory will emerge, perhaps after 80 years or so, as in the 1916 case of Alice Wheeldon who was arrested as a ‘terrorist’ planning to assinate the Prime Minister at the time (David Lloyd George). The whole plot was cooked up by the security services of the day to thwart anti-war/politcal discourse amongst the populace.

  • crab

    Understandable, but coming from a veteran soldier appalled by the ridiculing of warmongering and the conceit of conscientious objection.

    400 hundred british invaders died in Afghanistan killing local defenders and their loyal familys, not terrorists.

    Harry Patch never shot to kill.

  • nevermind

    If you think I’m a patronising knob, boomtownchav, then I must have said something that got your goat. Do you not think that the expenditure in the Falklands is wasted.
    The Falklands are not Chinese, just as the isle of jersey isn’t. Whatever prat decided to settle migrants/pirates there without taking the geographical facts into account should be thanked for this spat that has cost so many life’s.

    I apologise if you feel hurt, its the platitudes that done it and you’re not the only one who has left the forces in thoughts, I respect that as a thoroughly human reaction to the brainwash some of us here also experienced. take care.

    It has made us sharper.

  • Mark Golding - Children of Conflict

    Africom Pope – you raised some possibilities; a hypothesis that is missing crucial information, namely an inquest into the four so called ‘terrorist’ bombers. The official government report is lacking detail, indefinite and somewhat speculative. Much will be revealed this July 2013 anniversary.

    J7’s ongoing research efforts have twice forced the government to amend the official Home Office narrative which, on one occasion, required the then Home Secretary, Dr John Reid, to stand before parliament and announce a major factual inaccuracy to the house.

    Some subjective thinking may also confuse such as this statement by survivor witness Beverli Rhodes (in a room near the bus explosion):

    “My conscience, however, was pricking me and, of course, my partner was also doing exactly the same thing. At my partner’s insistence, I called the police line anonymously, and requested that there might be a connection between the bomb outside our offices and our involvement in the Olympic bid, as the upper level of the bus was at exactly the same level as our boardroom where the bomb went off. I did not leave my name and I did not comment any further. As far as that goes, I feel that perhaps I could have assisted a little bit further in mentioning more of my involvement but, because we were told not to speak, I was fearing for my job.

    – Piccadilly Line survivor / 30 Bus witness Beverli Rhodes
    Source: 7 July Review Committee hearing, 23 March 2006 [PDF]

    Investigative journalist Tom Secker researched anomalies in the official government inquiry:!

    Dedicated to Miriam Hyman

  • Herbie


    It’s obvious that the Holy Mother Church is failing.

    Useful though they were for a time, for a very long time, even long after the protestant rebellion, they’re now on the way out, replaced by the good lord Murdoch, a good man and a tolerant man, for whom much tolerance is expected.

    We have a pope.

  • Mark Golding - Children of Conflict

    Harry Patch – the man who said war was “a license to go out and murder…”

    – Note: Despite appeals the BBC have remained silent on requests by children to put the BBC documentary ‘Harry Patch – The Last Tommy’ on BBC iPlayer for posterity.

    This when the BBC jump hoops to grab any report that condemns Iran or Palestine or Syria AND BUNG IT ON iPlayer.

    Who owns the BBC??!

    Thanks ‘Crab’ for the spark.

  • glenn_uk

    Habbabkuk said, “if you’re being serious, then that’s a rather disappointing reply (eg “an old Catholic dude” – are you expecting a young, Lutheran woman?).”

    Unless we’re still jesting with each other, Habbabkuk, that’s a bit of a disappointing reply too! Of course we should expect nothing else but an old Catholic, but I did, perhaps, labour the point. The attitudes and position of any Pope were exactly as described, would you not agree? Anything personal about a particular Pope is pretty by-the-by. One might as well have a gay, atheist Pope as a Hitler youth former anti-aircraft gunner as Pope. Knowing your history as well as I’m sure you do, you’re aware we’ve had both.

    But my point was just a throw-away line, such as when Private Eye ponders about the location in which bears would find suitable toilet facilities.

    Speaking of P.E., do you not recognise Mary’s style when it comes to a generalised cynicism of the establishment? It’s entirely appropriate to acknowledge and remind readers of the failings, and corrupting interests, of publicly acclaimed individuals – champions of virtue, notable for their dignity and character – who are supposedly above the human frailties of the rabble. We can expand on this if you are interested.

    But Habbabkuk – you are an interesting character, and it’s good that you’re here. Your presence keeps us on our toes, and a lot of your points deserve consideration. I would respect you a lot more if you didn’t appear to have a primary interest in bullying one particular female, not to say rather genteel, senior citizen. One might wonder if some “handy” fellow, in his thirties maybe, who went to a rough comprehensive, would not so readily be picked upon.

    Please stay around, your posts are useful and I (for one) like reading them.

  • Habbabkuk (La vita è bella!)

    @ Glenn_uk :

    Please consider your gracious post as the rising sun which dissipates the early morning mist at the beginning of a summer’s day 🙂

    Yes, of course I recognise Mary’s style and of course you’re right when you say in essence that publicly acclaimed individuals should be held to a high, perhaps higher, level of account. But perhaps in a more rational and objective way? I think that my objections are to a large extent a matter of style and ‘organisation’ and that I should be more favorably disposed to her as a commenter if she were to avoid irrelevancies which usually take the form of personal side-swipes and if she were to confine herself more strictly to the subject of any individual thread rather than feeling free to come out with any thoughts that’ve come into her head at any particular moment. But I can assure you that her status as an elderly female has nothing to do with it, and indeed why should it (if anything, I happen to believe that children and older people deserve particular respect and consideration by virtue of their greater general vulnerability in the case of the former and their experience in the case of the latter); my examination of some ‘handy’ fellow of the age and background you imagine would certainly be no less vigorous if such a person were to post in a similar manner and in the same style as Mary. You’ll probably have noticed that some other commenters have also received the share edge of my quill. But Mary is rather unique and does post a lot (with the displeasing characteristics I’ve mentioned) and so attracts a commensurate amount of my limited attention.

    Anyway, that was interesting. But let’s not be distracted from substance…..

    PS – re. “bullying” : do you really seee bullying in my responses to some of Mary’s posts (dissociating the notion of bullying from the question of frequency)?

  • Boomtownchav

    Yes Fred, a washed up ex junkie who appears to jump on every bandwagon,

    No comment required.

    Your absolutely right

  • Boomtownchav

    Nevermind. To say that you asked no one to protect your freedoms, in my opinion, is like a rich kid sitting in a beautiful convertible saying “I never asked for it”. Still enjoying the benefits but…

    In respect of Quatada, I’m sure he has committed no crime in this country. I also have little doubt that he has worked for the British security services, but it would appear that his usefulness has come to an end. If this is the case it’s not the first time.

    Heatherington / McGrogan 1970’s NI, forced agents, deserted, allegedly by 14 Int, murdered by the IRA

    Arthur Thompson, Glasgow gangster, allegedly, used for years by intelligence services to control crime whilst being given a free hand

    Saddam, regarded as the bulwark against revolutionary Islam, supported by Richard Fairbanks who ran ‘operation Staunch’ The same Fairbanks that was George Bushes foreign affairs advisor during his election campaign against Reagan, who sold attack helicopters despite an arms embargo and supplied the Intelligence that reversed the Faw successes of Iran…..allegedly

    Going to war over WMD when we had done nothing, apart from a mild rebuke, over Halabjah, stating that only yperite had been used (first World War vintage) well I guess that made it okay then

    Your absolutely right about the policy’s from yesteryear that made the Falklands British, but they were made, now it has to be managed using today’s policy’s

    I don’t agree with much that’s written on this thread, some of it appears to be hot air, and yes it gets my goat a little. I apologise. On reflection it’s the freedom of speech that I so believe in, and I would still fight to preserve it (although I’m sure that you wouldn’t want that) The above point are because I accept that a lot of bad things are done to preserve those freedoms but sometimes to preserve an individuals position.

    Enjoy your thread, enjoy your opinions.

  • Africom Pope

    “I called the police line anonymously, and requested that there might be a connection between the bomb outside our offices and our involvement in the Olympic bid”

    Had the bombs gone off one day earlier then it is very likely that London’s bid would have failed. The most likely reason that it was diverted by plain clothed police is because it was part of the “exercise”. It is also interesting that after the diversion the “bomber” is said to have began panicking and rifling through his rucksack, pulling at wires.

    Look at the advert on the side of the bus – weird coincidence?

    Which ever way you cut this pie it’s always full of shit. The only thing that is totally obvious is that the ‘official narrative’ is not worth wiping your arse on.

  • Cryptonym


    11 Mar, 2013 – 11:20 am

    The country that brought ‘the quaint idea of …’ -I take it you’re referring to Afghanistan, which country and people certainly had no part in it; it was The United States, Israel and Saudi Arabia, with other countries, including Britain as complicit by perpetuating the cover up that is still persisted with despite the frankly preposterous nature of the official version of events on that day. The military were lined up in place preparing to invade Afghanistan for months before September 2001. Apportioning blame within hours, silencing suspicions, blocking investigation, destroying evidence followed. Remember that line about a carpet of gold or a carpeting with bombs or words to that effect.

    It doesn’t add up, it never will. You’ve been duped and it’s wearing off, it’s hard to take in, but you’ll get there in the end. And so many ‘everyday’ people too, what other kind are there, might I ask, are there superior or indeed inferior people, some more expendable than others it seems, so many non-everyday people conspicuously weren’t there at all, the toll was heavy of security and cleaning staff, menial everyday people I suppose, but inexplicable absenteeism amongst bigwigs was astonishingly high, with many Republican supporting executives, commanded to stay away and attend a ‘charity breakfast’ at Offut Air Force base, or the staff of Odigo IM spyware or of Fuji bank and so many more. Such high-flyers or assets we’re told it’s their custom to be first in and last out in the evening, setting a pathetic example, but in the city that never sleeps, the queen bees all gave work a miss.

    The entirely innocent people of Afghanistan or Iraq, Libya and now Syria, were everyday people too. When the dead begin to clock up in their millions, the odd collapses of those rickety buildings, pales into complete insignificance. The view of uncomprehending and very expendable economic conscripts, you in other words, with a pleasure in smashing, killing and destroying on par with the terrorists, but with the means, training and official sanction, unlike these media-hyped amateurs we do tire hearing of, hardly matters much either.

  • Mary - for Truth and Justice

    Desist from your discussion about me with others. Stop your ageist and sexist remarks. How dare you. Who I am is none of your business. You are spiteful and unpleasant and are becoming even more garrulous.

    Your false concern for the integrity of Craig’s blog is just a ruse to gather support here. You do not give a stuff about Craig’s blog.

    You will not wear me down or drive me out. The opposite is true. Your jibes empower me and give me extra spirit.

    Glenn_UK is in a minority of one or two when he says he appreciates your comments. You never contribute anything or inform us. Backbiting and criticizing is your speciality.

    Try getting out more and find some friends. I have just spent a pleasant couple of hours swimming with friends and taking part in an aqua aerobics class. Recommend it.

  • Habbabkuk (La vita è bella!)

    @ Mary :

    “Try getting out more and find some friends. I have just spent a pleasant couple of hours swimming with friends and taking part in an aqua aerobics class. Recommend it.”

    Well, I’ve just been building a snowman and very fine he looks too. But he must think he’s you because when I pointed to certain defects in his construction he was very rude and called me a troll!

    Seriously, though : I see no reason why I shouldn’t discuss you, when appropriate with others on this blog. Everything is in the open on this open blog and you (and others) can of course intervene if you (or they) feel you have been traduced.

    I feel that you view my strictures and occasional interventions in an unduly pesssimistic light. For example, I notice that you have been much less insistent over the last couple of day in linking everything to Israel or Zionist plots; indeed I think you might have desisted entirely. And I see this as a positive sign that you can listen, which of course I welcome.

    As far as Glenn-uk is concerned, I should obviously be less than somewhat flattered by his kind words. You may have noticed that his post was balanced (he does also criticise me), polite, positove in spirit and to the point. It is clear that I attach more value to a post like that than to ones which present the opposite characteristics.


    La vita è bella, life is good (don’t take it tragically all the time)

  • Boomtownchav


    Because my views differ so much from most of the people on this thread I will never be convinced, but I genuinely respect your opinion.

    I do not believe Robin Cook was assassinated.

    I not believe September 11 was anything other than a terrorist attack

    I do not believe that July 7 was anything other than a terrorist attack

    I do believe that the people of Afghanistan, are innocent victims of a vacuum left by the “April Revolution” the Russian invasion and the Pakistani ISI. unfortunately their country was used, re “the country that bought the quaint, etc A flippant observation, apologies

    I do believe that innocent civilians bear the brunt in every war, from Ireland to Iraq. I believe that this suffering this injustice, is the seed for the next conflict.

    I do believe that we deserted 8,373 men and boys in Sebrenica, to their fate. These were not fundamentalists, not terrorists, they where fathers, sons, husbands. I will never understand why they didn’t allow us to do our jobs, that was a crime that was unforgivable. It was reported at the time, I don’t recall by who, but it was said that with the diplomacy used it was difficult to see the difference between firefighters and an arsonist.

    “Of course, the private soldiers field of vision is much more limited than that of his general. On the other hand, it is of vital importance to the latter to gloss over his mistakes, and draw attention only to those things which will add to his reputation. The private soldier has no such feelings. It is only to the officers of high rank engaged that a battle can bring glory and renown. To the army of common soldiers, who do the actual fighting, and risk mutilation and death,there is no reward except the consciousness of duty bravely preformed” Private Warren Olney 1862

    The second Gulf War and Sebrenica didn’t allow us that. I wonder how many fundamentalist they spawned

  • nevermind

    @ Boomtownchav.
    I have not made my mind up as to why General Myers failed to order jets from Edwards base to intercept the 2001 charges, instead went back into his meeting with a lower ranking official discussing manoeuvres, but it stinks.

    So does the reluctance to interfere with Saudi pilots/learners, eager to learn how to fly but not land.
    After knowing the ins and outs of the Bojinka plot, such laxity, more than once, with FBI and CIA operatives in various states being called off from above after blowing the whistle, stinks as well.

    The ISI colluded with the CIA in their mad idea to create madrasas that teach a political islam, as the colluded with the Russians years earlier. Like with Saddam, our man in Iraq for most of his life, Bin Laden was our bagman in Tora Bora, our go between. And then he turned, another lesson for us regards training the wrong people.

    I also reserve my judgement on 7/7.

    I fully agree with you on Srebrenizca and the massacre that could have been avoided. I have a friend who was involved in recovering the bodies afterwards and he cracked up over it, is still, not right in the head.

    Srebrenizca and the bombing of Kosovo from great hight was the nail in the coffin of NATO,imho. Since that incident, and the more later ‘no fly zone’ bombing of Libyan civilians, I am in favour of creating an EU peace and defence force.

    What’s you take on NATO these days?

  • Boomtownchav


    NATO is to ham strung to be effective, to many vetoes and far to many political masters. Of course there has to be control of any armed force and it has to be a last resort but equally it has to be able to react quickly and efficiently. The French were constantly suspected of passing information in Bosnia to the Serbs. I don’t know if that is true but once the trust is broken the Alliance is finished
    Sebrenica, in my opinion finished NATO. Maybe that’s a grand statement but they failed not only the people they were meant to protect but the troops who were meant to protect them

    September 11 was a massive security cock up but the idea of flying hijacked planes into buildings was never really considered by Western security. Our values are so different, however, the warnings were undoubtedly there, USS Cole, the Beirut Marines barracks etc

    I don’t believe in a conspiracy because I simply don’t believe our agency’s are smart enough to pull it off without being found out

  • crab

    There are a lot of unusual occurrences which beg disbelief after the fact that all pre-emptive and aggressive war waging is unjust and destructive business. But that fact is not dependent on finding the truth in each of them.

    All conflicts even those which threaten some harm should be fought as long and hard as necessary – through diplomacy alone. Great harm is mundanely regulated and economised in most spheres of activity; in traffic, hospital funding, food supply, irritant chemicals… Only risk of harm from paramilitants coined terrorists, is blown up and trillion dollar campaigns of death and destruction maintained which we are supposed to thank for reducing the threat of suicidal revenge.

    It might not necessarily be wrong to fight for a country, but fighting along side the american dream, in this day and age is.

    A sharp and witty account from Craig recently:

  • nevermind

    @ boomtownchav

    Sept. 2001 was being prepared for years and the signs were all there, just not taken seriously, whether this was by design or accidental, as you say, for not being smart enough.

    Can I recommend a very interesting book called ‘the war on freedom’, why America was attacked.
    ISBN 0-930852-40-0

    It is written by Nafeez Mosaddeq Ahmed and it rips the silence surrounding this attack apart.

    If they liaise with the right people, somewhat smarter and more focussed on fighting Muslims, they can pull these false flag events off. Gulf of Tonkin?

    As ex Luftwaffe I have the same feelings about NATO and its multi facetted command structure, never sure which devils tune one dances to. Take care.

  • glenn_uk

    boomtownchav wrote, “I don’t believe in a conspiracy because I simply don’t believe our agency’s are smart enough to pull it off without being found out

    This form of argument from disbelief, usually – no disrespect – comes from people who know very little about the entire situation. It’s surprising to hear that disbelief in our own secret agencies doing this, but a rag-tag, undisciplined and untrained group of non-practicing Muslims, planned out of a cave in a stone-age country, DID manage to pull it off.

    This is a good site, and a useful starting point if you want to know more about it:

    The idea that nobody even considered using planes as weapons is also untrue. Dubbya himself slept on a warship rather than in buildings while away on a conference earlier that year for this very reason.

  • Roderick Russell

    Horrible though they are, neither the murderous bombing campaigns by extremist terrorist groups, nor the misuse of antibiotics, seriously threaten the very constitutional fabric of our society – the rule of law. But what is threatening the rule of law is the growing use of secret police powers by our security / intelligence agencies under the guise of “fighting the war on terror”.
    In his book “Down and Out in Canada’s Intelligence Service” former CSIS agent, W. J. Baltruweit, referring to the use of secret police powers by CSIS wrote that CSIS had … “deliberately coerced by intimidation (hence “terrorize”), and gained submission by inducing fear (hence “terrorism”).” Many others have said similar things, and, as a victim of CSIS myself, I can confirm this.
    But none of this was unique to CSIS. In a report on Cointelpro, the Church Committee of the US Senate, describing their intelligence agencies as ‘rogue elephants’ went on to comment on their illegal use of “Disrupt and Discredit” (D & D) … tactics against … “citizens engaging in lawful activity” reminiscent of “totalitarian regimes”. And the committee further commented that “a secret police may become a menace to free government and free institutions”.
    And in the UK – the use of our secret police, MI5 / MI6, to persecute innocent citizens is par for the course. In a 2004 article in the Sunday Times, journalist Liam Clark calls such tactics ““Zersetzen”, roughly translated as “to undermine, subvert and corrode””. He said “Zersetzen” “is a phenomenon I have witnessed many times before”. Indeed, there are dozens of similar well-documented cases, such as my own.
    Sadly, our elected politicians and the press are leery of the growing power of these secret agencies and thus allow themselves to be too easily influenced by them. Why should we be surprised? Give an intelligence agency secret police powers, and they will start acting like a secret police. This is the biggest threat to democracy today.

  • Herbie

    Yes. “Disrupt and Discredit”. That’s largely what these infiltrators, of whom habbakuk thoroughly approves, get up to within an organisation.

    Usually what they do is incite violent activity, primarily to get the public against the organisation’s ideas, whether they be environmental, animal rights or whatever. If they can’t find a hothead within the organisation they’ll undertake the task themselves and try to create the conditions of a conspiracy with others, which is subsequently prosecuted, with much media attention. Job done! And that’s their only function really.

    You can see too that the FBI have been using this tactic to prosecute 100s of people since 911, supposed terrorist offences which wouldn’t exist were the FBI not providing encouragement, and logistical and other support. These supposed terrorists will often be very dim, impressionable and mentally deranged and so on, barely capable of committing the offences attributed to them without immense support from the FBI. And of course MI5 and other western spooks are at the same game to a lesser extent.

    Certainly too you can see with our trolls here that much of their intention is to disrupt and discredit.

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