In general I refrain from commenting on Syria, because the politics of that country are hugely complex and I simply do not know enough about it. If in the media in general people refrained from commenting on things they know they do not clearly understand, life would be easier for readers – except, of course, that most columnists don’t understand that they don’t understand.
The West is already heavily involved in Syria, giving large amounts of cash, and channelling weapons through the vicious despotisms of Saudi Arabia, Qatar and Bahrain, to opposition forces, some of which are Islamic jihadist, some representing different tribal or religious power factions.
This makes life very confusing – the kidnappers and killers of UN Peacekeepers on the Golan Heights are some of William Hague’s “Good guys”, which is why those stories are so quickly glossed over. The truth is, of course, that the whole fallacy of the Blair interventionist model is that there are “good guys” in these situations who ought to be put in power by our military force, our money and the blood of our soldiers. As I explain at length in The Catholic Orangemen of Togo, this “good guy” fallacy led to the British Army installing the most corrupt government on earth in Sierra Leone, and we have gone on to do precisely the same thing, installing incredibly corrupt and bad governments, in Kabul and Baghdad. Having, of course, bombed the infrastructure of Iraq back to the Middle Ages first, A great deal of fog still shrouds Libya, but I expect we will soon see clearly exactly the same thing there.
Doubtless if western intervention becomes more direct in Syria, we will there again achieve regime change and the brilliant achievement of installing a government even more corrupt than the Assad regime. Of course the political proponents of the policy don’t really care about good governance or corruption, or death in war or devastation of infrastructure. They want governments which are allied with them. The wars themselves serve the interests of the politicians’ paymasters in the arms industry, mercenary companies and logistics providers like Halliburton. The subsequent corrupt governments are supposed to be friendly to western commercial and financial interests.
The motives and mechanics of the interventionists are clear. We have seen it all before. But their own militaries have had enough of being embroiled in endless conflicts, and there are no quick win solutions in ultra complex Syria. The Israelis have been signalling very, very hard to the US that the Assad family are OK by them and the last thing that Israel wants is a genuine democracy in Syria, which might want the Golan Heights back.
Obama, Cameron et al have thus been reduced to financial and vicarious weapon supply to the anti-Assad forces, and limited numbers of special forces assisting with sabotage operations to no great purpose. Meantime, hundreds of thousands have been killed in the ongoing civil war.
There is a clue there; civil war. Nobody is attacking us, and here is a hard lesson for politicians. There are wars we should not join in. We should have a role, indeed, in urging peace and trying to deploy all the means of conflict resolution. But it is not for us to fund or arm any side in a civil war. It is not our business and we have no legal right to do so. Work for peace, yes. Fuel war, no.
Within all this, Obama’s foolish decision to make the Assad regime’s deployment of chemical weapons a red line makes matters worse. Of course chemical weapons should not be deployed. But I am not sure whether I would prefer to die with my guts spilling out after red hot metal ripped through my abdomen, or coughing my lungs out after inhaling chemicals. That hundreds of thousands can die one way, but hundreds dying the other way would be a cause of joining in the war, is not inherently logical to me.
I remain, I should say, very sceptical of evidence produced so far that chemical weapons have been deployed. Even if they had been used, given the consequences that might follow, one has to ask by whom. The cui bono would not point to Assad, quite the opposite.
I shall return to avoiding blogging about Syria. If I can’t blog about it because it is too complex and I don’t fully understand it, think how unwise you must be to imagine that bombing it or providing still more weapons will help.
Does a child’s parents care whether his death was from a bomb or from chemical weapons? I think not.
http://thelede.blogs.nytimes.com/2013/04/25/videos-show-aftermath-of-possible-syrian-chemical-attack-in-march/
The Israelis have been signalling very, very hard to the US that the Assad family are OK by them and the last thing that Israel wants is a genuine democracy in Syria, which might want the Golan Heights back.
I very much disagree. The Zionist entity (Ze) would ultimately love to have it’s sphere of influence overlaying large amounts of Syrian territory, but in the mean time if it’s languishing in chaos, then fair enough, all preparation for the end game. The Ze has also been the one to start the lie torrent re: chemical weapons. Hardly an OK signal. Plus the Ze commands US foreign policy and increasing I feel, NATO operations.
The Ze would fancy its chances with a “democratic” Syria. You can easily buy democracies, as we well know.
@ wikispooks/sabretache (27 Apr, 2013 – 1:22 pm)
I find suggestions Russia and the US ruling establishments are somehow ‘linked’ in the Boston bombings intriguing, but Russia can do what the hell it likes in that region as it has done twice before. It doesn’t need to ‘bung’ anyone for that.
I think something deeper is doing on, but I think it’s too early to speculate with any accuracy what what exactly is going on here. I will say that Russia shares some of the same diseases as the US does, but not quite as acute. I don’t think anyone should rely on Russia for anything. It has in effect has betrayed all those bombed countries since 9-11.
A first guess involves asking if Russia is trying to draw the US into more sapping conflicts that will bankrupt them all the quicker, while Russia (one of the top: oil producers, military tech advanced, gold holding, food producers in the world)
“A first guess involves asking if Russia is trying to draw the US into more sapping conflicts that will bankrupt them all the quicker”
That, and to force recognition upon the US that the Chechen threat is global; kinda like 9/11 in it’s descriptors. (Cui bono?)
Ironic that the credible evidence of chem weapon use originated in Israel.
They’ve been using chemical weapons on Palestinians for years but crossed no red lines for the kind hearted and caring US to react.Illegal weapon use by the Zionist regime in occupied lands are quite okay for the White House.
I am no expert either, but I do know what I look like when I’ve used too much shaving foam.
@ Nevermind :
“Your pomposity knows no bounds, comparing yourself to Craig is off course”
———–
Nevermind, do you understand English?
My post began : “Not that I would for a second compare myself to Craig,…”
Notice the word “not”. It’s a negative. “Nicht” in your mother tongue. Got it?
DoNnyDarko (17h01) claims of Israel :
“They’ve been using chemical weapons on Palestinians for years but crossed no red lines for the kind hearted and caring US to react”
————
Are you referring to tear gas and stink liquid or to chemical weapons like sarin?
Jay, at 15h45, gives a link to an essay by George Orwell, and I thank him for that.
And it made me think, not for the first time, how strange it is that Orwell isn’t quoted and linked to much more frequently by the regular posters on this blog.
Yo might be forgiven for thinking that Orwell’s brand of thinking would a priori chime well with the free-thinking, heterodox spirits those regular posters imagine themselves to be. If it in fact does, they keep fairly quiet about it.
Could the answer be that Orwell’s detestation of double-think and what he called “smelly little orthodoxies” makes him uncomfortable to quote on this blog, I wonder?
@ Pan :
Your post to Chris2 made me smile.
But you musn’t be too hard on people like him. Their eagerness to land a knock-out blow on me and their frustration when unable to do so cloud their senses and scramble any vestiges of logical thinking.
As someone once said, long ago and in a totally different context : they are poor dears.
Pan
27 Apr, 2013 – 3:54 pm
“@ Chris2 – Irrespective of who one is talking about, to say that someone “should be permanently banned on the basis that his clear purpose is to prevent the free exercise of speech” is somewhat ironic, given that the “banning” that you propose would itself “prevent the free exercise of speech”!
“See Nick Cohen’s “You Can’t Read This Book” for a thought-provoking read on the subject of censorship.”
Pan
You seem to be advocating freedom of speech at all costs. Should there be no restrictions on speech, for example designed to inflame hatred between groups of people that could lead to disorder and violence?
Should blogs not have moderators?
Should “hate preacher” Abu Qatada be deported for his views and speeches?
What about censorship by omission from the MSM?
I would be interested in your views.
By the way Nick Cohen is a Zionist wanker.
habbakuk, raising the possibility of comparison, by your mentioning it, whether denied or not, has put it on to agenda here.
Just as the no fly zone over Libya raised the spectre of ‘no flying’ it did not really apply, rather the opposite.
Your pomposity dopes know no bounds, du kleiner wicht.
Craig Interesting post.It is very complicated but that has n’t stopped Sawer and M.I.6 jumping merrily into the bloodbath and probing the wounds with the help of the C.I.A. of course. Cameron Hague & Obomber need an excuse, any excuse, to intervene and as events are not progressing westerly so to speak what’s to be done? It is important that people in this country understand that the Whitehall war mongers care not a jot for the people of Syria Iraq or Palestine,all of the current chaos can be traced back to the Sykes Picot agreement of the 1920’s when France & the U.K. divied up the M.East,theft and more theft torture and genocide.How to hold our war criminals to account is the real problem.The public was media bludgened over Thatcher’s funeral and had to endure the spectacle of an assortment of war criminals from Kissinger and Cheney to the Bliars and bomber Brown singing psalms to that Hijacking Fraudmannite mass murderess.Please see my website.How to proceed against sociopaths is as ever the question.
W B Yeats ‘I have spread my dreams under your feet; Tread softly because you tread on my dreams.
I am very grateful to Craig especially, and to all the other contributors here for their restraint here. Syria is part of the
Holy Land which used to be occupied by both the Samarians who were not Jews and some of the Children of Israel. Jesus pbuh in the Gospels tells the Jews that if the people of Samaria had witnessed the miracles that had been shown to the Children of Israel, they would be sitting in the street covering themselves with sackcloth and ashes.
The Jews were deprived of the Holy Land because of their refusal to follow the sensible teachings of ‘Esa alaihi salam, (Jesus) to worship God, be just, and wait for the next prophet to arrive, Muhammad, may Allahs peace and blessings be upon him.
They were also deprived of the custodianship of Allah’s religion Islam. The occupants of Syria at that time were not punished in the same way as the Jews because they were not under the Jewish law. The Alawi religion is a manifestation of pagan beliefs which had influenced the (Islamic) Jews by Jesus’s time and which have come to spread inside mainstream Islam as Shi’a Islam.
There is a massive split inside the state of Israel between those who would like to regain the Holy land by returning to the tenets of their religion and those who would like to regain it by sheer political power. There is a similar massive split inside Islam, in which the political Muslims have been politically attracted to political Zionism as represented by our own darling Blair and Cameron, while being religiously attracted to Jewish Orthodoxy, and at the same time being ideologically committed to the destruction of Judaism.
In my opinion it is the love-hate between political Islam and political Zionism which has wrecked the Muslim world. One moment political Muslims are thinking real-politick and working with Zionist elements, the next they are thinking orthodox and working with Jewish orthodoxy. The example of our prophet Muhammad SAW can be used both for political compromise as in the treaty of Hudaibiah which was initially very hard for his companions to accept and total non-compromise; and also for deep mutual respect between sister religions and deep distrust and emnity.
In order to capitalise on these tensions the Jews have manipulated the West firstly through the means of finance and secondly through the means of theological doctrine and power to
put boots on the ground in Syria. e.g the Crusades, e.g. the French putting the Alawis in power, e.g the establishment of Israel, and lastly through the establishment of a Shi’a regime by the US in Iraq. Now that Russia {and China} have become part of the West, Israel can use her financial and theological power more destructively by pitching East/West divisions and Christian/Communism divisions against eachother in Syria.
Israel’s aim is clear, to bring Western boots on the ground to Syria. 20,000 US Iraq veterans are in Israel, another 20,000 US and UK troops are inside Syria, 17,000 on the Jordanian border and the rest messing around breaking things and training fighters. Turkish forces are nearby on their side of the border.
Those boots will be used, after the destruction of Assad, and while the secular and Muslim fighters are taking control of Syria, to re-draw the borders between Sunni Syria and Shi’a Iraq, to give an orthodox Sunni buffer for Israel from the Shi’a to the North and East, and to re-draw the borders between Kurdistan and Turkey to give a Kurdish, orthodox Sunni buffer from Tehran.
The boots will be directed by false-flag activities which give fig-leaves to western leaders, Obama, Cameron, Putin, Saudi/Qatar to pursue the interests of Israel from the pockets and blood of others.
Alex Thomson, of ITN News by way of Channel 4, who is fast becoming, has become perhaps, the last real journalist on UK mainstream television, poses several pointed questions of the Israeli inspired allegations that Syria has used chemical weapons:
http://blogs.channel4.com/alex-thomsons-view/syria-chemical-weapons-12-key-questions/4782
Worth following his twitter stream too, for up to date on the ground info;
https://twitter.com/alextomo
Has anyone thought that what lies behind all this is Israel ending up with taken over a very large part of Lebanon, right up to the Litani River.
Gobholecake
Manners maketh man. Please either insert cake in gob-hole and eat or remove cake and speak.
CheebaCow,
Just installed your UserBlocker.Works perfectly.
Thank you so much again for all your time and effort on this,greatly appreciated.
I have only,thus far,needed to block one poster but what a difference to the blog experience it is :.)
Worth revisting again Alex Thomson’s account of how the Syrian rebels attempted to stage a false flag by murdering him and his team and blaming it on the Syrian government:
http://blogs.channel4.com/alex-thomsons-view/hostile-territory/1863
His is of course not the only account of such false flag efforts by Syrian rebels.
@ Scorgie :
“Pan
You seem to be advocating freedom of speech at all costs. Should there be no restrictions on speech, for example designed to inflame hatred between groups of people that could lead to disorder and violence?”
——–
Doug, you remind me of a broken-down, punch-drunk old pugilist, picking himself up from the floor after receiving a haymaker only to receive another uppercut.
Your comparison/question is exceedingly foolish. It’s interesting that you should think that my posting could lead to disorder and violence. Over the top, as usual.Enough said.
“Should blogs not have moderators?”
——–
If they would stop you using expression like “Zionist cunts” (one of your recent ones), then the answer must be “yes”.
Now stop fooling around and start posting seriously!
AA-Milne-the-reluctant-wartime-propagandist-and-the-lies-about-German-atrocities.html
@ Nevermind
I would be interested to know what you are standing for please?
Do yo believe in anything to be compulsory and if yes how would you apply such.
Perhaps free new bikes for everybody!
@ Nevermind :
“habbakuk, raising the possibility of comparison, by your mentioning it, whether denied or not, has put it on to agenda here.”
———
On your agenda, perhaps, but not on anyone else’s and not on Craig’s, I suggest.
Speaking of agendas, do please let us know what the electors thought of your agenda come the 2nd May, won’t you.
Anyone just finished listening to Profile on Radio 4?
The WARS suit the authors of PNAC (Project for a New American Century).
And craig, you should also read ‘The Big Bamboozal’ on 9/11, and if your are still unconvinced about the conspiracy on 9/11 as the ‘New Pearl Harbour’.
@ Nevermind
I would be interested to know what you are standing for please?
Do yo believe in anything to be compulsory and if yes how would you apply such.
Perhaps free new bikes for everybody!
Standing for County council in Norfolk.
yes Jay, sustainable solutions to our infrastructure and our waste management disorganisation should be compulsory.
Don’t know about free bikes, but some car free development a la Bremen wouldn’t go a miss, although with a genetically predetermined car mad society that has extended their ‘my home is my castle’ to their vehicles, I’m not so sure whether this will work here.
http://www.eltis.org/studies/69e.htm
JC on rubber crutches. See ya.
It is true enough the waters of the Litani River have long been a goal of Israel’s fascists. Repeated pulverisation of Lebanon bears that out, as if they weren’t overt enough in their resource grabs, ploughing inconvenient people into the ground as they pursue their thefts. But there is more than water, there is much gas and some oil around the Caspian region, with no way out without crossing Russian, Iranian, Syrian or other territory. If Syria and Lebanon – some of the oldest civilisations in existence – can be erased from the map, an abhorrent criminally insane exercise, then there comes a putative alternative route to existing pipelines through the Caucasus, to Europe. The alternative, down through northern Iraq, Syria and Lebanon, to Israel, and then by LPG tankers from there to European ports, and by ship the long way round to India’s coast and Japan etc., puts Israel in total command, and quids in, having its thumb on the choke point of some of the last remaining fossil fuel resources left on the planet, and how they’d use that power? Your guess is as good as mine, it doesn’t sound a helathy prospect; our Westminster governments, of Labour, Tory or Liberal persuasions, seem willing to submit our destiny, our relative wealth, our survival, as successive US governments too, to the whims and predilections of the self-appointed chosen ones, the logical and proper master race they tell us. To see western civilisation peter out, deliver itself unto and submit to such mad bullies is unthinkable.
As I understand it, Wiliam Hague’s initial preference was to stay out, but the case for intervention grew with the increasing loss of life. As for the ‘good guys’, I would say that it consists of those that oppose the Baath regime but are not Islamists. However a revolution in a predominantly Muslim country is liable to be hijacked by Islamists for their own ends (as has happened in Iran and Egypt), making intervention tricky.
Herbie,
I agree with you about Alex Thomson. I follow him on Twitter, and retweeted this from him,
“Now – absolutely now the US/UK need to put up their “chemical weapons evidence”, every shred, or shut up.”
For now at least, he seems relatively independent.
(Back to nines again in the captcha, after a plethora of fives)
Habbabkuk (La vita è bella!)
27 Apr, 2013 – 5:02 pm
“Nevermind, do you understand English?”
“My post began : “Not that I would for a second compare myself to Craig,…”
“Notice the word “not”. It’s a negative. “Nicht” in your mother tongue. Got it?”
No Habbabkuk you said:
“Not that I would for a second compare myself to Craig, BUT…”
Butt head!
Habbabkuk (La vita è bella!)
27 Apr, 2013 – 5:07 pm
The US Congress Office of Technology Assessment has recorded Israel as a country generally reported as having undeclared chemical warfare capabilities, and an offensive biological warfare program.
There are speculations that a chemical weapons program might be located at the Israel Institute for Biological Research in Ness Ziona.
190 liters of dimethyl methylphosphonate, a CWC schedule 2 chemical used in the synthesis of SARIN nerve gas, was discovered in the cargo of El Al Flight 1862 after it crashed in 1992 en route to Tel Aviv.
Former US deputy assistant secretary of defense responsible for chemical and biological defense, Bill Richardson, said in 1998 “I have no doubt that Israel has worked on both chemical and biological offensive things for a long time… There’s no doubt they’ve had stuff for years.”
The US Congress Office of Technology Assessment records Israel as a country possessing a long-term, undeclared biological warfare program. Israel is not a signatory to the Biological Weapons Convention.