Work for the UN

by craig on June 17, 2013 10:25 am in Uncategorized

GCHQ and the NSA between them employ tens of thousands of people.  I am bemused by the shock at the “revelation” they have been spying.  What on Earth did journalists think that spies do all day? That includes electronics spies.

Since Katherine Gun revealed that we spy on other delegations – and the secretariat – within the UN building, it is hardly a shock that we spy on other governments at summits in the UK.  For once, the government cannot pretend that the object is to save us all from terrorism, which is the usual catch all excuse.  Nor in the real world is any of the G20 nations a military threat to the UK.  The real truth of the matter is that our spies – GCHQ, MI5 and MI6 – are themselves a large and highly influential interest block within the state.  Lots of people make a great deal of money out of the security state, and this kind of activity is actually simply an excuse for taking money from taxpayers – which is from everyone who has ever bought anything – and giving that money to the “security industry”.

I do not view spying on other governments as quite as despicable as spying on ordinary citizens, which is an unspeakable betrayal of the purpose of government.  Spying on other governments is a game they all play to extort money each to their own security elites.  But I will say that spying on the South African government seems pretty low.  Why?

Interception of diplomatic communications is plainly a gross breach of the Vienna Conventions, even if the forms of communication have changed since they were drafted.  I have never studied the particulars of international law as they relate to spying, but it seems to me an area that in the modern world needs regulation.  There must be room here for the UN to be involved in preparing a Convention to outlaw the interception of international communications, with recourse to the International Court of Justice for those victim of it.

There is more work for the UN on Syria.  We should all be grateful that Russia is holding out against the very dubious western claims that the  Syrian government has deployed chemical weapons.  But while Obama can declare all the red lines he wishes, they do not give any country a right to take action on Syrian soil without UN authority.  That needs to be restated, strongly.  There is no basis at all for the continued and massive Israeli attacks on Syria – they are absolutely illegal.  Israeli strikes have definitely killed more people than the alleged deaths from chemical weapons.  Can someone explain to me why that is not a red line?

The UN Secretary General should be speaking out, and the UN Security Council should be meeting, to discuss the Israeli attacks on Syria.  The system of international law has broken down irretrievably.

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  1. Flaming June
    17 Jun, 2013 – 9:43 pm

    “Meant to post this before. It’s a video from last week’s Ch 4 News. Caspar Bowden has words of wisdom and gives us information on what powers the US are taking and against which the individual has no recourse. He is warning us.”

    Interesting video June.

    I found General Jonathan Shaw a bit of an odd ball; chair-swivelling, overconfident, blasé even and he didn’t know about PRISM even while head Cyber-security at the MOD.

    Why was he on the show?

  2. “you and Habbakuk seemed clearly to be working as a team” — Kibo Noh

    I don’t see any such thing. And I agree with Villager when (s)he says

    “On abuse, i haven’t seen any one else have more abuse showered on him but he’s proven that he can rebut it without enjoining them in their lowered standards.”

    I have not seen 1/10th the abuse from Habbabkuk as I have seen thrown at him/her. Some people here don’t practise what they preach, unfortunately.

    And while flinging the word “troll” around, they ignore the most common piece of advice on the internet:
    “Don’t feed the troll”

    It’s becoming a pain in the neck. And it’s not the fault of Habbabkuk who rarely, if ever, indulges in ad hominem.

    Meanwhile Mary objected to the word “vagina” when its use had nothing to do with her. I mean, come on, for god’s sake …

    And yes, either blockquotes, or italics, or quotation marks, would be useful in deciphering Mary’s comments. [She has taken recently, sometimes, to adding a single apostrophe at the beginning of what I assume are copy and paste items, but frequently she doesn’t “close” with another apostrophe, so it’s useless. One still doesn’t know what’s her and what’s quotation.]

    I can only assume that refusing to use any method of identifying her copy and paste is sheer bloody-mindedness or arrogance. She did tell me she didn’t need “lessons in style” and then said, “so tough”. But unfortunately, she does need such lessons. Or else, she needs to get off her high horse.

    PS And Mary knows how to use italics, as she used them in a recent thread.

    PPS And no, I’m not ‘in cahoots’ with Villager whom I don’t know from Adam. And I only post under one name.

    Here, Ben, take the floor. I’m off to bed.

  3. Kibo, don’t forget to take your pink blankie with you to bed, after having hit us so hard with your limp noodles you really deserve a good nights wallowing in your deep ignorance.

  4. Ben Franklin -Machine Gun Preacher (unleaded version)

    18 Jun, 2013 - 1:05 am

    “Here, Ben, take the floor. I’m off to bed.”

    Holy shite, Dreoilin. How’d I get roped into this?

  5. “VIOLENT PROTESTERS TRY TO DISRUPT SUMMIT!” … That’ll be the flavour of the headlines generated by the G8 summit meeting in N. Ireland.

    My partner and I went down to Glen Eagles the last time the G8 was held in Britain. Eventually we got through the roadblocks, police searches and misc. police harassment and joined the protest march. Thousands of us made our way towards the hotel, the route becoming more and more constricted by higher and stronger fences as we approached the heavily guarded entrance gate. There was time for a bit of half-hearted fence rattling and lots of heartfelt slogan chanting around the gate before moving on and letting those coming up behind have their symbolic moments in the sun.

    A hundred metres past the gate, the route took a right down a street which would return us to the starting point where the buses were waiting. On one side of the street was a field which, unlike the rest of the route, had no security fence. It was a beautiful day and rather than return to the start immediately, two or three hundred people had gone into the field to hang around, mostly just sitting on the grass. On the other side of the street, in three of the gardens, were scaffold towers with TV cameras on them, pointed at the field. I was a bit puzzled by this, I couldn’t figure out why the cameras were there rather than in a location which had a view of the main gate where all the action was. It soon became apparent.

    At the far side of the field, from behind some trees, hundreds of police appeared, some on horses. They formed into a long line and began moving towards the protesters in the field. A couple of minutes later, over the rooftops came two fucking great Chinook helicopters, the double-rotored ones you see in Vietnam movies. They made spectacular landings at different points in the field and dozens of police disgorged from them. Police from three directions converged on those absolutely peaceful protesters and waded in with shields and batons. I saw dozens bleeding as they were driven from the field.

    Sure enough, the evening news had spectacular TV footage of the airborne delivery of our bobbies, come from on high to save us all from violent anarchy, all faithfully recorded by those ‘fortuitously’ situated cameras. I’d been part a choreographed illusion. They’d written the script before we arrived, and we all unwittingly played our parts. Never underestimate the bastards.

    And never trust double agent Bob Geldof.

  6. :)

    Sorry, Ben. I know you’re in another time zone. So you could be here for another while. Me, I’m wrecked.

  7. I am not the least bit excited about one-line updowns.

    I have not done nor care to do work on Blunt who I consider by far the least important one of the so called Magnifisant Five, though I will give Blunt a renewed look when my books finally arrive from Sweden.

    And you apparently have not read my article on Wright where I claimed that he was the most important of the Soviet atomic spies.

  8. BrianFujisan

    18 Jun, 2013 - 1:19 am

    The most recent interview with Assad Dated 17th June

    Interviewer: Mr President, Britain and France claim to have clear evidence that chemical weapons have been used. The White House has stated that it possess information to ascertain this claim, which consequently led to the death of 100 to 150 people in one year, in addition to that you have denied the UN investigators access to areas in Syria except for Aleppo. How do you explain the situation?

    President Assad: Let’s begin with the statement from the White House regarding the 150 casualties. Militarily speaking, it is a well-understood notion that during wars, conventional weapons can cause these number of deaths, or even higher, in a single day, not in a year. Weapons of mass destruction generally kill thousands of people at one given time; this high death toll is a primary reason for its use. It is counterintuitive to use chemical weapons to create a death toll that you could potentially reach by using conventional weapons.

    America, France, Britain and some European officials claimed that we have used chemical weapons in a number of areas. Regardless of whether such weapons exist or not, we have never confirmed or denied the possession of these weapons.

    Had they obtained a single strand of evidence that we had used chemical weapons, do you not think they would have made a song and dance about it to the whole world?, then where is the chain of custody that led them to a such result?

    These allegations are ludicrous. The terrorist groups used chemical weapons in Aleppo; subsequently we sent an official letter to the United Nations requesting a formal investigation into the incident. Britain and France blocked this investigation because it would have proven the chemical attacks were carried out by terrorist groups and hence provided conclusive evidence that they (Britain and France) were lying. We invited them to investigate the incident, but instead they wanted the inspectors to have unconditional access to locations across Syria, parallel to what inspectors did in Iraq and delved into other unrelated issues. We are a sovereign state; we have an army and all matters considered classified will never be accessible neither to the UN, nor Britain, nor France. They will only be allowed access to investigate the incident that occurred in Aleppo.

    Therefore, all the claims relating to the use of chemical weapons is an extension of the continuous American and Western fabrication of the actual situation in Syria. Its sole aim is to justify their policies to their public opinion and use the claim as a pretext for more military intervention and bloodshed in Syria

  9. Hazza Babe

    It isn’t just naughty NSA and CCHQ doing the spying is it? I know they get free vehicle, diesel, travel time. The obvious people to spy on Muslims would be Muslims wouldn’t it. But that would be a little bit too haram for your high stinkiness.

    Selling brother Muslims is reserved also for cleverer minds than your own, who use Takfir, which does not mean atonement Mark. It means declaring that your brother Muslim is not a Muslim and cleaning your conscience about selling or harming him.

    Yes , if you can get a bit of tasty muck about someone, you can force them to do any and every kind of major sin/crime. You’re on a winner dude!

    The ordinary police on the beat are fully involved in the intelligence acquisition process, converting minor sexual demeanours like shagging skinny teenagers and looking at porn into blackmail to troll on conscience blogs like this one and bus down to GCHQ offices to work on spying.

    What if you’ve got a war-crime on your MI6/CIA/ex-dictator’s files. You could be turned into a groomer for Zionist Jihad. Sorry Haz, I’m not talking about you here. I’m talking about your minders/friends.

    Muslims routinely spy on other Muslims, to avoid exposure of their own misdemeanours and to recruit/dupe the faithful into helping the neo-con narrative of Muslim terror.

    Haz, I know you love the job, the pay, the camaradie of crime. It’s not everyday you can get paid for insulting respectable, intelligent, caring females. But you know what they say about perfume, it rubs off on you if it’s a nice one, and if it isn’t so nice, it still sticks around.

  10. May I plug my recent article in the Summer Edition of Lobster Magazine?

    “Canada’s Spy Agency gone rogue: Prime Minister Harper couldn’t care less”

    To my mind, the pre-requisites for democracy are elections, a free press/freedom of speech, and rule of law. We seem to have forgotten in Canada that without the rule of law we cannot be a democracy.

  11. Flaming June

    18 Jun, 2013 - 4:56 am

    On Israeli interference in the Syrian conflict.

    Sapping Assad’s strength
    Israel stirs the pot in Syria

    by Jonathan Cook / June 17th, 2013

  12. Flaming June

    18 Jun, 2013 - 5:42 am

    MoD serves news outlets with D notice over surveillance leaks

    BBC and other media groups issued with D notice to limit publication of information that could ‘jeopardize national security’

    The Guardian, Monday 17 June 2013 20.54 BST

  13. @GF “What is worse is that these so-called ‘intelligence’ agencies are not only spying – they also make use of the information collected. Maybe one day we shall all hear the more horrifying story about how these intercepted communications can be used and manipulated.

    If you wait until you hear the story, you’re fucked.

  14. Questions for Scottish nationalists here:

    1) will GCHQ, SIS, and MI5 be retained as UK (or Scot-plus-rUK) bodies, allowed to operate in Scotland? You say you don’t know? OK, so are you going to make it an issue? I mean now.

    2) as you know, big business interests control the UK state, including the public authorities in Scotland, which are just as corrupt as all the other public authorities in these islands? Are you going to ensure that this gets undone, somehow? Are you going to make it an issue? I mean now.

    3) never mind ‘Euro’ questions that have saturated the political pages in the media for so long – what about the US military and intelligence presence in Scotland? Are you going to make it an issue? I mean now.

    You know what they say – to change something, you’ve got to recognise it first.

    Over to you.

  15. Kibo Noh

    “To all who make this blog wonderful. Thank you. You have my respect. Goodnight all.”

    You’re welcome. Goodnight and God bless. :)

  16. Clark, good to hear from you again and thanks for including the link to Abu Qatada’s legal costs and why Jack Straw should pay them.

    Put succinctly the question is, and I’ve been asking it too, what is Abu Qatada’s crime?

  17. Before certain individuals suggest that my previous comment is off-topic if they read the link that Clark posted, it questions whether one of the reasons the government want to get rid of Abu Qatada or keep him locked up is a suggestion that he worked for the secret services, which is tangentially bang on.

  18. Spying is not only our duty, it is acting on knowledge gained from spying.

    If the Rotherham rape gangs were spied on more by everyone concerned; there blatant and fragrant avoidance of social justice mayhave been avoided….

    Nosey bastards.

  19. Whhhhheeeeey Agent Cameron has thrown a hissy fit; Cameron wants Syria peace plan, with or without Russia:

    “It’s a clarifying moment to see what kind of commitments the Russians are willing to make in a leading world forum,” said one official before the dinner.

    But if consensus couldn’t be reached it was possible a final statement at the end of the two-day summit might be released without Russia’s input and in the name of the G7 rather than the G8, officials indicated.

    The butter up before the upper cut is delivered by toadies assigned to deliver the “ultimatum”; we will go it alone! The causes beli delivered:

    The West had repeatedly clashed with Russia over how best to end the conflict in Syria with Moscow thwarting attempts to condemn Assad in the United Nations while selling weapons to his army.

    U.S. President Barack Obama sparred with Russia’s Vladimir Putin over how to end the fighting on Monday during an icy encounter at the summit where divisions over the conflict eclipsed the rest of the agenda.

    In other words Putin has not been selling out for some beads, mirrors, and fire water (The high margined Red Indian transactions are still sought, and highly in the vogue), and instead he has taken the line: get stuffed, fuck this for a game of soldiers!

    The desperation of the bunch of ne’er do wells in G something (G20, G8, G7 reminds of; ten green bottles hanging on the wall, nine green ……) is almost palpable, they cannot get the war they want, and the stamping feet and hammering fists on the table episode is fully under way.

    The world domination, has to wait for a while longer yet. The slight miscalculation of the masters of the universe is; The world has grown fucking sick and tired of the perpetual war for the sake of supremacy of a bunch of wankers who never thought beyond the invasions, and smash and grab phase.

    FFS It is more than a decade into the twenty first century, and it seems the belligerents are pissed off their plans for a hundred years war is getting thwarted. Give me fucking strength.

  20. Sofia Zabalotna-Habbercake

    18 Jun, 2013 - 9:12 am

    Obama and Putin at G8. The photo says it all.

    Thanks June.

  21. O/T

    Jemand posted a link on another thread to the film which set out to discredit Assange and how it is losing money at the box office.

    Shame! That is, shame on them for ever having produced it.

  22. Flaming June

    18 Jun, 2013 - 9:44 am

    O/T?? Perhaps the O/T policemen will rule.

    Karzai takes control over all military operations in Afghanistan. The wily old devil survived to the end.

    There are 97,000 ISAF forces present and the Afghan forces number 320,000. Jonathan Beale BBC, reporting from Kabul, has just said that 3 – 4% of the number desert each month. If he really meant that 10,000+ become deserters, they will all be gone within a year? Unbelievable.

    Slimeball Rasmussen was there to give the official handover. Why weren’t Bush and B.Liar there too to see completion of their flawed project?

    All those lives lost over the last 12 years and all the billions of £s and $s down the drain.

  23. Flaming June

    18 Jun, 2013 - 9:53 am

    Cheering news there John about Gibney. Perhaps he would like to experience incarceration himself. There was jeering last night on Sky News when they were reviewing the papers. Ms Botting, Pierce of the Mail and the Mirror’s McGuire were all having a good laugh at Julian and his plight.

    Medialens on the film at the end of last month.

    Gibney has been prolific. Wonder who funded his new flop?

  24. Thanks John Goss regarding the box office failure of Alex Gibney’s film “We Steal Secrets: The Story of Wikileaks”.

    According to the link John posted above, various torrent websites (including have facilitated copying of the film and this is believed to have had an impact on the box office receipts for the film.

    ATTENTION: While there is almost zero chance of you being prosecuted for downloading an unauthorised copy of the film and it is very easy and quick to do so, and you probably wouldn’t pay good money to watch this propaganda anyway, downloading and viewing the film is not encouraged by me, Craig Murray or anybody else here. Visiting the website and viewing the download availability is not illegal so I do encourage anybody to do this for research purposes.

  25. There is a lot of tabloid stuff in the Irish Independent about the Obama clan visit. viz.

    The BBC have a headline
    ‘Irish boy struck dumb by First Lady Michelle Obama’ !!!

    Then I saw this and SCREAMED.

    ’18 June 2013 – The sleepy South Dublin village is used to seeing famous faces, but today is to play host to the world’s most famous family, as the Obamas are expected to take up an invite from Bono and stop off for lunch.’

    in the light of:

    Bono and GM and Monsanto

    Bono and Africa – Monbiot

    Facts about GMOs

    Q. Will Monsanto et al benefit from an enlarged EU/US trade area? Silly question.

  26. Is the Irish press more craven than the British, or just the same?

    The Irish News, a Northern Irish paper, is owned by the Northern Media Group. It has a net worth of ‘net worth’ of £-7,228,610 ???

    Its article on Obama’s speech to the schoolchildren is discussed here.

    The Irish Independent is owned by the O’Reillys AFAIK, previous owners of the Independent in this country.

  27. I remain baffled by the position of progressives with regard to the surveillance state. On the one hand they are appalled. ‘How dare they spy on us,’ they say, as if the saying is enough to hold power to account. On the other hand they then follow up their legitimate criticisms with the caveat — the MASSIVE caveat – that ‘well, I understand that we need a surveillance system if we are to protect citizens, so we must temper our complaints.’ Not once do they realise that this equivocating attitude ALWAYS allows the thugs in through the back door. It enshrines the tentacles of the secret state in law.

    Now, if we are really serious about tackling the current junta that is in power, and if we are serious in aiming to reform the system for the better, then we must actively destroy the surveillance system as it currently exists. We must move towards open government, open media, encourage full and frank disclosures from whistleblowers, and rigorously define the legal parameters — leaving no uncertainty behind — of spying. Under no circumstances must we fall back on the idea that millions of pounds must be spent on shoring up the apparatus of the surveillance state. State secrecy should not just be limited, it should be defunded. Spying networks currently in force should be disbanded and investigated by the public. Secret courts should only be established if it can be proven — beyond reasonable doubt — that the revelation of intelligence ‘will’ harm the nation as a whole. We can start by setting up the equivalent of the Church Committee in the US, and by undertaking a major public investigation into illegal spying activity. RIPA must be revisited.

    Enough with the double standards. The security state is almost always against our interests. We must wake up to this fact, and fast.

  28. Habbabkuk (La vita è bella!)

    18 Jun, 2013 - 11:33 am

    @ Gawain

    “The security state is almost always against our interests.”

    An interesting thought. Would you care to expand on it and when so doing set out when you think the security state is IN our interests?

    Thank you.

  29. “Russia and China, having learned their lesson, are protesting Washington’s assault on Syria that Washington pretends is a “civil war.” If Syria falls, Russia and China know that Iran is next.

    Iran is Russia’s underbelly, and for China Iran is 20% of its energy imports. Both Russian and Chinese governments know that after Iran falls, they are next. There is no other explanation for Washington surrounding Russia with missile bases and surrounding China with naval and air bases.

    Both Russia and China are now preparing for the war that they see as inevitable. Washington’s crazed, demented drive for world hegemony is bringing unsuspecting Americans up against two countries with hydrogen bombs whose combined population is five times the US population. In such a conflict everyone dies.”

  30. I take an interest in the world around me
    You gather intelligence
    He she or it spies.

  31. John Goss, I dare you to ask that question – What crime has Abu Qatada committed? – on the Geurrdian’s CIF. It could well get you moderated and you’ll certainly receive lots of rather unsavoury yet non-specific replies. I’ve been asking the same question for some time now and can only conclude that like another chap who was born in Bethlehem, he is seen as a threat to the ruling elite with what he has to say.

  32. Paul the Questionner

    18 Jun, 2013 - 12:32 pm

    I have serious doubts about your expertise if you really think Russsia or China are standing out for principles of International law to protect civilians and democracy in Syria. They are just afraid of losing multimillion weapons contracts. Weapons and monies that’s what they are standing out for.

  33. Abu Qatada may have worked for our intelligence services. It is time for white people to stand up for Muslims who are being held without trial under the Anti-Terrorism, Crime and Security Act 2001 and then the Protection of Terrorism Act 2005. Muslims, understandably, are concerned that if they protest they may likewise be wrongfully imprisoned. I have just raised the following FOI to find out why Abu Qatada has been made by the media, and Theresa May, to look like a criminal. There is a Follow button if anyone wants to keep informed of the progress of this FOI request.

  34. Villager
    18 Jun, 2013 – 12:52 am

    “Howdy there Guano, nice to have you back with us again! I was getting worried that Fisons had got you bagged up and that you’d been spread over a field somewhere.”

    LOL Habba where do you pull these one-liners out from?!

    I count that as three lines in two sentences. Fatuus vicum.

  35. Yanks, when not debasing & torturing the very meaning of words, also like to corrupt rational logic itself;

    “it says it does not have the evidence to try but are too dangerous to release”

    US reveals Guantanamo ‘indefinite detainees

  36. So…a D Notice was slapped on the BBC and other broadcasters (today’s Guardian). I’m assuming the terms of a D Notice mean that you cannot even talk about a D Notice? I ask that because there is no mention of reporting restrictions on the BBC.

    One thing that has occurred to me is the way in which the BBC have reported the Snowden leaks. The corporation has either a) parroted what is already in the public domain or b) “top lined” the official reaction to the leaks from Hague, Cameron et al. At no time, so far as I’m aware, has the BBC conducted its own investigation into the leaks, covering the broad nature of the 197 reports generated by Prism, for instance. Perhaps this was part of an assurance they gave the MoD when the D Notice was issued — the Beeb could hardly ignore the story, after all. Or perhaps they just don’t have the staff to devote to such a trivial matter…

    I feel one of my mantras coming on: The BBC is an arm of the state — don’t trust it.

  37. @Doug,

    Credit where credit is due; the chief troll has no doubt been rewarded by his handlers for getting the some of the regular posters here to support him, but responding about him to his new fan club, is the same as engaging with the troll clown itself; best to ignore in both situations.

  38. Perhaps I can add a smile that is on topic

    From Melbourne

    WHISTLEBLOWER – feat. mc Edward Snowden [RAP NEWS 19]

  39. Abu Qatada may have worked for our intelligence services.

    Sure as heck Omar Bakri Mohammed worked for the SIS. Also the little weirdo who has been droned in Yemen not so long ago.

    Further, added to the list of the new concentration camp inmates ought to be Abu Hamza, who has had his prosthetic hands taken off him, because the jailers have found his hooks could be “dangerous”, and he is finding it difficult to; feed, wash, etc himself. (as per wapo gloatingly).

    These people along with 500,000 other Muslims (as per wapo) are spending their lives in the new concentration camps dotted across the planet, whilst no one gives a shit. We all are good “Citizens” now.

  40. Dreoilin, thanks for the Rap News – pretty well done, I thought.

  41. I think that Abu Qatada’s problems with Britain’s security state go back to the 3/11 bombings in Madrid when he, a source for Scarlett’s MI6, was talking to co-religionists there who often came to Britain, and this persuaded the Brits so much that it was going to occur round London that they persuaded Aznar’s ( remember that jerk?) people not to worry about an attack there!

    When they occurred there, during an election campaign, Aznar was toast.

    Ben, you might find in my file a takeoff about it in Private Eye Letter from no. 10 style worth a read and even a laugh about the terrible tragedy.

    As for me asking The Guardian about it, I have long given up on the process since my comments were always pre-moderated, and rarely posted. So much for comments being free!

  42. Flaming June

    18 Jun, 2013 - 2:44 pm

    Should Joanna Gosling, a presenter on the BBC News Channel a) declare an interest when she is commenting on political affairs as she was earlier today or b) be doing the job anyway in the light that her husband is one of Agent Cameron’s spin doctors?

    ‘Craig Oliver, the Prime Minister’s embattled Director of Communications, has been told by his friends to put his family before his job, lest his marriage go the way of other Downing Street denizens. Craig is married to the BBC News presenter Joanna Gosling, with whom he has three children. The unrelenting 24/7 pressure of his Downing Street job spinning for the PM is, Craig himself admits, “a lot of stress”…

    Ironically David Cameron pledged in opposition “to make the UK the most family-friendly country in Europe” yet has seen the marriages of his former press secretary Gabby Bertin as well as that of his “gatekeeper” Kate Fall break up. Kate is the chillaxing PM’s hardworking deputy chief of staff. It looks like Osborne will need to find money in the budget to hire more staff to lighten the workload if Downing Street is to really be a family-friendly workplace.’

  43. Flaming June

    18 Jun, 2013 - 2:47 pm

    Also on GF, Mercer declares a payment from Alastair Andrews Communications. A fake name, a fake address and a fake job are all on the register apparently.

  44. Just glanced through The Guardian’s comment thread on its interview with Snowden, and it is really alarming with posts being removed because they did not abide by the rules, many having notices to other posts by the poster without the original one being there, and, of course like in my case with it, we know nothing about the ones which were ruled out beforehand.

    Is this just the biggest part of the data-mining operation by NSA/GCHQ to locate the real, probable troublemakers, thanks to the newspaper’s unprecedented assistance?

    Too bad that Orwell isn’t around to exploit the new Big Brother developments!

  45. Flaming June

    18 Jun, 2013 - 2:58 pm

    It’s supposed to be the G8 so why are there ten of them? Because they invited Herman and Jose to join in.

    Wonder what Terry Fuckwit said that caused it to be removed?

  46. Flaming June

    18 Jun, 2013 - 3:02 pm

    Yes Trowbridge, very handily for GCHQ/NSA etc a comment trail is collected.

    eg Terry Fuckwit

  47. technicolour

    18 Jun, 2013 - 3:12 pm

    sweet rap :) thanks dreoilin

  48. technicolour

    18 Jun, 2013 - 3:15 pm

    and John Goss, thanks too – agree.

  49. Macky, more than half of the Guantanamo detainees held in permanent detention are Yemenis though two have them have died there. The poet, Adnan Latif, was from Yemen. He died in Guantanamo having spent more than a third of his short life in the merciless clutches of the US military.

  50. Just think go this poster, say Mohamad Qatada and using the user name Silent Sam) posting this response to The Guardian interview with Edward Snowden:

    Silent Sam: “Snowden is just another false hero who should be killed like all the West’s phony heroes.”

    Mohamad Qatada is related somehow to Abu, and the security services have long wanted to get him in any kind of way not only because of the 3/11 fiasco but more importantly because they so over-reacted to the tragedy in Operation Crevice that they converted some of them who frequented that internet cafe in Crawley, especially those around Leeds, that they carried out the 7/7 bombings.

    The Guardian’s moderators pre-moderate Silent Sam’s post, and hope that he will add to it, and he does, posting something like this:

    Silent Sam: “It is just IT types like Snowden at GCHQ who could have stopped the 3/11 attacks in Madrid if they had not been so interested in setting up my third cousin, twice removed, Abu Qadada.”

    This post is also held back until he adds ones that are less inflammatory and have elicited sympathic responses from others. Then The Guardian posts the first response, and others which have attracted others, and have gained approval from many unknown ones – people whose identity can easily be determined, giving MI5 people much to work with.

    I’ll think about doing a much bigger post about the possibilities that GO would think worthy of note.

  51. Sorry it should have read “two of them (Afghanis) in the list died there”.

  52. Excuse the opening confusion of the previous post – have GO on the brain this morning.

  53. Flaming June

    18 Jun, 2013 - 3:53 pm

    Why the secrecy? Has this something to do with the Tommy Sheridan case?

  54. doug scorgie

    18 Jun, 2013 - 4:46 pm

    18 Jun, 2013 – 12:54 pm


    “Credit where credit is due; the chief troll has no doubt been rewarded by his handlers for getting the some of the regular posters here to support him, but responding about him to his new fan club, is the same as engaging with the troll clown itself; best to ignore in both situations.”

    Sorry Macky but I don’t know what you are on about.

    It would help me and others here if you, and others, referenced time and date) the posts that you refer to.

    @Doug, just doesn’t do it.

  55. Just had another post about The Guardian and its chief spook David Leigh scrubbed by secret government’s manipulation of security as I looked before posting to make sure that the CAPTCHA check was right, but it still disappeared.

    Looks like my posting days here are numbered.

  56. Ben Franklin -Machine Gun Preacher (unleaded version)

    18 Jun, 2013 - 4:51 pm

    Trowbridge; Is this the one?

    Why America’s NSA and Britain’s GCHQ Had Gareth Williams Assassinated

  57. Dreoilin 18 Jun, 2013 – 1:03 pm
    Nice RapNews link. It’s good to see young people fighting mainstream propaganda inventively.

    Re; Afghanistan. Apologies if you’ve seen this but here’s a film about the preparedness of the afghan forces for nato withdrawal.

    This Is What Winning Looks Like:

  58. @John Goss, re Guantanamo, I would have thought that the US max security prisons would be more than enough to act as a deterrent, even to those who embrace death, for what’s worse than the living death torture of life-long solitary confinement, but perhaps Gitmo is used as a frightener; check out the interregation scene at about the 7.30 minute mark in this;

    @Doug, nevermind; forget that I ever addressed you.

  59. No, Ben, though it is worth reading for the background to the Snowden Affair.

    I was talking about a letter that Denis Thatcher might have written after the 3/11 bombings.

    It’s called Emperor Antony Has No Clothes, as I recall, and appeared on codshit at the end of March, 2004.

    Really worth a read, even at this late date.

  60. Pretty much agree Craig. Link below to my own blog post on why overthrowing Assad by force will just lead to continuing sectarian civil war and atrocities and strengthen Al Qa’ida, as in Iraq and Libya – and also a power sharing peace plan based partly on Lebanon to add to Kofi Annan’s 6 point plan

  61. Habbabkuk (La vita è bella!)

    18 Jun, 2013 - 6:47 pm

    @ Flaming June

    “Should Joanna Gosling, a presenter on the BBC News Channel a) declare an interest when she is commenting on political affairs as she was earlier today or b) be doing the job anyway in the light that her husband is one of Agent Cameron’s spin doctors?”

    The answer to these questions is
    a) no
    b) yes.

    Thank you for your information on, and link to, various peoples’ marital problems.

    The relevance to the subject of this thread is obvious.

  62. Glanced at the coverage The Guardian provided Genera Keith Alexander testified before a House Committee, and the newspaper allowed most suspect posts to appear, contrary to its own rules.

    Take the three comments by Westernworldrulz where he advocates someone European taking US nuclear weapons away by force, and goes on immediately with two more most provocative posts about living anywhere else, even Turkey, and still wanting marching on Washington to make sure that changes occur. The stuff is so good that The Guardian did replace the first post with a notice about the two others.

    Westernworldrulz is either a Western European troublemaker its data-miners could be investigating or a provocateur to produce real ones like him.

    I urge posters to steer clear of what The Guardian is helping unless you don,t care about being killed, possibly going to prison or just don’t give a damn. I’m too old to really worry about it.

  63. Didn’t read the last post over before posting it – answering an inquiry at the back door about a wounded man on the run in the neighborhood, and wanting to know if I know anything about it! – so there are two errors in: General Alexander, and the paper did NOT replace Westernworldrulz’s first post with a notice about the other two.

  64. Habbabkuk (La vita è bella!)

    18 Jun, 2013 - 7:17 pm

    @ Doug Scorgie :

    18 Jun, 2013 – 12:52 am

    “Howdy there Guano, nice to have you back with us again! I was getting worried that Fisons had got you bagged up and that you’d been spread over a field somewhere.”

    LOL Habba where do you pull these one-liners out from?!

    I count that as three lines in two sentences. Fatuus vicum.”

    Doug, you’ll recall that on several occasions in the past I’ve advised you to invest in a good dictionary.

    I regret to note that you haven’t followed this excellent advice. Had you done so – I would again recommend the Shorter Oxford English Dictionary (2 vols) – you would have been able to look up the word ‘one-liner’ and find the following definition :
    “a short joke or witty remark”.

    You see? No mention of the number of lines required.

    Looking on the positive side, though, your post did make it clear that you are able to count at least up to three. Keep it up!

  65. Habbabkuk (La vita è bella!)

    18 Jun, 2013 - 7:44 pm

    @ The Scourge and Villager :

    As an earnest of my magnanimous character and forgiving spirit, I offer the following one-liner in accordance with the Doug Scorgie definition (“a one-liner can have only one line”) :

    “LOL Habba where do you pull these one-liners out from?!”

    “I don’t know, but, mutatis mutandis, not whence Guano issued”.

  66. Who’s the current Director of the Joint Terrorism Analysis Centre?

    JTAC is a semi-detached agency, based in Thames House, the MI5 HQ, but with an autonomous structure. Its staff include people from SIS and GCHQ, and it’s called an “interagency”. It’s responsible to the director of MI5 but not part of the structure of MI5.

    It’s not to be confused with the Office for Security and Counter-Terrorism, which is part of the Home Office, headed by Charles Farr, formerly of SIS, who has ruffled lots of feathers.

    A former head of JTAC was Mary Calam.

    JTAC decides on threat levels, and mirrors the US National Counterterrorism Center, except that in true British style, it’s more secretive. For example, it doesn’t run a public database akin to the NCTC’s Worldwide Incidents Tracking System. And it seems to keep the identity of the person in charge pretty quiet too.

    Anyway, who’s the head of JTAC now?

  67. According to David Attenborough millions upon millions of cockroaches live entirely on nutrients brought into caves from the outside world by bats and deposited as guano. Saves Habba venturing out into the real world.

  68. doug scorgie

    18 Jun, 2013 - 8:37 pm

    Flaming June
    18 Jun, 2013 – 3:53 pm

    Mr Coulson was detained at his London home in May this year and driven more than 400 miles by officers from Police Scotland to Glasgow.

    I wonder if it is only the English cops that do “arrest by appointment”.

  69. Flaming June

    18 Jun, 2013 - 8:55 pm

    Doug :) but as Guido Fawkes says

    Guido Fawkes ✔ @GuidoFawkes

    Be careful what you say – you don’t want to be on Contempt of Court – Andy Coulson %$#@!+&%$#@@!$%&#@@+@$%%@
    Careful now…


    Anyone know anything about this Orwellian sounding set up?
    CSARN – City Security and Resilience Networks. I see a few senior members of police forces in the lists of speakers.

    Much jargon.

  70. Flaming June

    18 Jun, 2013 - 9:03 pm

    David Swanson writes about ‘Drones for Christ’.

    Drones for Christ
    by David Swanson | July 2013

    How Jerry Falwell’s Liberty U.—the world’s largest Christian university—became an evangelist for drone warfare.

    ‘I asked Young about drones’ most common use today, namely war fighting. “Is that kind of drone use Christian?” I asked.

    “I can only offer my perspective as a Christian,” he replied. “UAS are like any other aerial vehicle that can be used for a variety of missions including law enforcement, aerial surveillance, search and rescue, and crop spraying as well as for military reasons. As a former military combat aviator, I believe that UAS can be employed just like a manned aircraft and that there should not be a distinction between the two.”

    A brochure promoting the Liberty School of Aeronautics features a photo of Dan McCready, First Lieutenant USAF, who is quoted, “Since I was very young, I’ve dreamed about becoming a pilot in the U.S. Air Force. Liberty’s aviation program gave me the opportunity to make my dream a reality, helping me to realize that I can do all things through Christ who strengthens me.”’

  71. Shame that you’re promulating the party line that spying is a political activity. It isn’t, it is simply the enablement of theft through obtaining inside information and similar.

  72. Is that Evening Times article correct? Wasn’t it last May – 2012 – that he was driven 400 miles to be questioned at Govan Police Station, Glasgow. In which case of course it was officers from what was then Strathclyde Police, not Police Scotland. Why would he be driven 400 miles by the police to attend court, they’re not providing taxi or chauffeur services are they? I suspect (and the Evening Times have considerable woeful form for inaccuracy) this online article was done by someone sent along to work there, for JSA money plus bus fares.

  73. Now The Guardian has posters responding to that war criminal, ultimate scum bag John Bolton.

    The spooks must be going bonkers with all the leads it’s generating.

    Should change the discussion section to this: Comment Is Likely Jail!

  74. Flaming June

    18 Jun, 2013 - 9:34 pm

    Cryptonym The BBC say the journey was in May last year.

  75. I thought so ty Flaming J, f-ing amateurs.

  76. Just in:

    “The US is to open direct peace talks with the Taliban after more than 10 years of war in Afghanistan, senior White House officials announce.”

    I wonder why they didn’t have direct peace talks ten years ago.

    Strange that.

  77. It might not all be bad news. At least this is promising because the organ of government (BBC) has broadcast it.

  78. For comedy value Marko Attila Hoare (yes that’s his real name) on the Guardian’s Comment Is Free arguing that anyone who’s against arming the rebels is pro-Assad, claiming Hezbollah carried out the attack on Israeli tourists in Bulgaria despite Al Qa’ida claiming responsibility for it – and well, too many other factual errors to repeat again (i posted a comment under the article on them)

  79. Re Flaming June’s comment re Guardian Caption competition (18 Jun, 2013 – 2:58 pm), I like the entry:

    If you all stand on a black plinth I can photoshop the rest of Disneyland in later.

    The photograph was taken by Suzanne Plunkett, her who took (only one) iconic image in NYC on 11/9/2001…..

  80. Should I be pinching myself?

    G8 statement on Syria includes pledges to:

    ” Increase commitment to humanitarian aid.

    “Maximize the diplomatic pressure” to bring all sides to the table as soon as possible.

    Back a “transitional governing body” for Syria.

    “Learn the lessons of Iraq” and maintain Syria’s public institutions.

    Work together to “rid Syria of terrorists and extremists” — a new commitment by the G8, Cameron said.

    Condemn the use of chemical weapons “by anyone” in Syria, and allow for a UN probe, also new Cameron said.

    Support a new non-sectarian government in Syria. ”


    Wouldn’t you just love to have been a fly on the wall?

    How do we hold the rogues to it?

    Goodnight All.

  81. Does seem like a remarkably reasonable and balanced outcome, if a bit vague. I suspect it’s because Putin has pretty much hinted at World War Three if NATO tries to do a Libya in Syria (not that Putin is any great humanitarian or within a million miles of being one)

  82. “There is no proof that the Syrian government used chemical weapons, Russian President Vladimir Putin said during the G8 summit. Some of the G8 countries share this view, he added.”

    (but he doesn’t name names)

  83. So the G8, including Putin, backs toppling the legitimate Syrian government?

    This is a dangerous precedent. If Assad can be so easily shoved aside then Betty Windsor better watch out. There’ll be dancing in the streets of Stolen-land tonight.

  84. “A situation which is now out of control”

    “Before you dismiss the possibility of a 90% drop in the stock market as unrealistic, consider Wiedemer’s credentials.”

  85. Flaming June

    19 Jun, 2013 - 6:50 am

    Do read this interview with Assad by Frankfurter Allgemeine Zeitung. It is long but the clarity of his thinking and language illustrated within puts our lot in the shade. Compared to him, Hague is a like one of those concrete garden gnomes wearing a pointed red cap.

    “We Will Always Be Independent and Free” President al-Assad


    I see the Obama clan has now descended on Germany.

    Obama may get different reception in Berlin than in ’08

    Michelle will visit this panorama created inside a converted gasometer with Merkel’s husband, Prof Sauer.

  86. Flaming June

    19 Jun, 2013 - 7:10 am

    Pepe Escobar –

    June 18 , 2013
    Obama’s weapons-for-peace program

  87. Listen up, Obama, Cameron and the French bloke:

    “Northern Ireland leaders to G8: Sending arms to Syria bad idea”

  88. Assad link – thanks, June.

    An intelligent man who has thought through the issues in detail and doesn’t evade questions. What’s he doing in charge? I begin to see why the shambolic oafs pretending to run this country are so scared of him.

  89. So who is the Director of the Joint Terrorism Analysis Centre, which reports to the head of MI5?

    Respected posters, do any of you know? :-)

  90. Flaming June

    19 Jun, 2013 - 9:16 am

    Israel as ‘Insight Vacations’ see it. No mention of Occupied Palestine.

  91. Flaming June

    19 Jun, 2013 - 9:29 am

    Obama is a walking disaster. Another clanger has been dropped.

    19 June 2013 Last updated at 09:25

    Afghanistan suspends talks after US-Taliban move

    Afghanistan has suspended talks under way in Kabul on a bilateral security agreement with the US.

    A spokesman for President Hamid Karzai said the decision was taken in protest over inconsistencies in proposed US direct talks with the Taliban.

    The row centres on the name given to the Taliban office, which opened in Qatar on Tuesday, the spokesman said.

    US-Afghan talks are to determine the nature of US military presence after foreign troops withdraw in 2014.

    “There is a contradiction between what the US government says and what it does regarding Afghanistan peace talks,” President Karzai’s spokesman Aimal Faizi said.


  92. Thanks for the revealing interview with Assad, June. The Golan is unprotected and Russia has volunteered to replace the previous UN contingent that has gone awol.

    The Golan is a potential flash point as much as South Lebanon, but Sidon and Tripoli are already flaring up with sectarian strife, so who needs false flag events, a small incident can set the whole lot off.

  93. From the horse’s mouth, so to speak.

    “One of these lessons is that ignorance is the worst enemy of societies and forms the basis for extremism.”

    Hats off to ARD for allowing us the chance to hear what “the enemy” thinks and make up our own minds.

    And thanks June for the link.


    Can anyone point me to a similar quality in-depth interview with a rebel leader or gulf state sponsor?

  94. “There is a contradiction between what the US government says and what it does”


  95. Good article on Syria, explaining what it’s all about, and why 100,000 have to die:

    Same old. Same old.

    “Qatar’s North Dome gas field, in the middle of the Persian Gulf, is one with Iran’s South Pars field, and together they constitute the largest gas field in the world. In 2011, Assad rejected an ultimatum from Qatar and instead agreed with Iran and Iraq to build a new Iran-Syria pipeline which would transfer natural gas to the Mediterranean from Iran’s South Pars natural gas field rather than Qatar’s North Dome.

    (We should recall that similar challenges to American petrodollar hegemony were made by Saddam Hussein and Muammar Gaddafi, with fatal consequences to them and their regimes.)”

  96. “The United States has deployed 1,500 Marines with advanced arms and military equipment to Yemen, says a Yemeni military official …

    The official also said that American forces usually enter the country in small groups, but the recent large deployment could be in preparation for a possible imminent incident in the region.

    According to the Washington-based think tank, the New America Foundation, the US drone attacks in Yemen almost tripled in 2012.”

  97. Craig: May I suggest Susan Lindauers book, of her time working in the UN, spying for the CIA around the 9/11 time and the subsequent invasion of Iraq.

  98. HM Government e-petition
    Save UK Justice

    Responsible department: Ministry of Justice

    The MOJ should not proceed with their plans to reduce access to justice by depriving citizens of legal aid or the right to representation by the Solicitor of their choice.

    Another seven thousand signatures will force a parliamentary debate.

  99. Middle East Reality Check

    MERC: Australia Post issues Israeli propaganda stamps
    June 19, 2013

    Editor’s note: Unbelievable is what comes to mind about this latest effort to conflate Australia’s Palestine Campaign with Israel. Not only is this a deliberate obfuscation of history – Israel didn’t even exist in 1917 – but it is insulting to the memory of Palestinians who were terrorised into leaving their city Beersheba when the newly-created Israel captured it in 1948 and who have never been allowed to return to their homes.

    The Palestine Campaign of 1917 saw the celebrated charge of the 4th Light Horse Brigade on the unsuspecting Turks. It was a battle that turned the tide of that campaign and led to the subsequent end of Ottoman rule in Palestine. Beersheba at the time had a population of some 4,000 Palestinians and was described by the New York Times of 1 November 1917 as an “ancient Palestine city, having much strategic value”. During the British Mandate, it remained an administrative centre providing work and services for the Palestinians living there. It was never intended to become part of Israel under the 1947 UN Partition Plan. Gaza is barely 50 kilometres away from Beersheba and endured some of the heaviest fighting when ANZACs and Palestinian soldiers fought the Turks. Now, the Palestinians are prisoners of Israel – not only in Gaza, but in the West Bank and East Jerusalem, while a theme park has been set up in memory of the Australian soldiers in what Israel now calls Be’er Sheva. The Pratt Foundation in Australia commissioned a statue to commemorate what many regard as the most significant victory of Australian military history and our Governor-General travelled to Israel for the unveiling ceremony. The irony of it all is that the Israelis living there had for decades been totally ignorant of the site’s significance and wilfully neglected its heritage, so much so, that in 2008, the Australian government was forced to order an investigation after the precious water wells, which the Australian soldiers had so bravely fought to secure, were found to be in a shocking state of disrepair and a virtual rubbish tip.

    War memorials everywhere show Palestine etched in stone. Graves in Gaza honour our soldiers. But even more telling, are the nearly six million Palestinians who live in that land under Israel’s brutal occupation and siege and some 5 million refugees who are waiting to return home. They will not forget. It will take more than Governor-Generals, statues and stamps to expunge the history and memories of the ANZAC-Palestine connection, try as Israel might.

    You can take a stand by refusing to purchase these particular stamps.

    (illustration of the stamps plus more editorial)


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