We Can Rule the World – Err, No We Can’t 188


Alistair Darling has warned Scots that they will lose diplomatic influence if they leave the United Kingdom.  He gives Syria as an example.  Syria having been such a resounding diplomatic success for the UK, and the UK having contributed hugely to the successful resolution of the conflict – or presumably his reasoning is something like that.

An Independent Scotland would almost certainly not have invaded Iraq and would be most unlikely to have occupied Afghanistan for ten years.  It would thus not have squandered vast sums of money, not contributed to the continued political disaster of both countries.  An independent Scotland would not be a permanent member of the Security Council.  This would impact terribly on the population, who would be benighted like the peoples of Denmark, Sweden, Germany and Australia, in all of which  the lives of ordinary people are absolutely intolerable because of their non membership of the Security Council, and all of which have been repeatedly invaded and wiped out in nuclear attacks continually throughout the last six decades.

I worked in multilateral negotiations in both the UN and EU and found colleagues from countries like Ireland, the Netherlands and Canada to be professional competent and influential.  The Scots certainly can be all of those.  Small countries contribute to policy, to peacekeeping and to humanitarian effort.  This latest bit of unionist nonsense is contemptible.


188 thoughts on “We Can Rule the World – Err, No We Can’t

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  • Juteman

    And going by your replies, i would hazard a guess that you are a British Nationalist of the UKIP variety.
    This isn’t a debate Fred, as you don’t answer any questions. Why do you oppose Scotland becoming an independent country, with its own seat at the UN, like every other independent country in the world?

  • Juteman

    You don’t seem able to comprehend the questions being asked of you Fred, and often seem to answer questions that weren’t even asked.

    For instance, Mutley said this – “Scotland is clearly a nation (only British nationalists deny this)”
    And you answered this – “First can you provide evidence that only British Nationalists consider Scotland a nation?”

    If you are dyslexic, or have some form of learning difficulty, I apologise. If it is none of those, then maybe a forum for those of the hard of thinking would be more suitable for you?

  • Fred

    “And going by your replies, i would hazard a guess that you are a British Nationalist of the UKIP variety.”

    Look here Nationalist turd, I have made it quite clear am not a nationalist of any description.

    Now, I repeat, go fuck yourself cunt.

  • Fred

    “You don’t seem able to comprehend”

    No you don’t understand dickhead, I do not engage in debate with those who fire insults at me instead of debating the issues.

    I just fire insults back at them, got that yet?

  • Juteman

    I never knew accusing someone of having Union Jack underpants could cause a complete mental collapse.
    For your own health, i’ll leave you alone with your DVD collection of Margaret Thatcher speeches. Maybe the odd Nick Griffin DVD?
    Goodnight sweetie pie.

  • Macky

    “I never knew accusing someone of having Union Jack underpants could cause a complete mental collapse.”

    You got off lightly; I once was “flamed”, ie subjected to offensive & vulger abuse by Fred, that ran for weeks, over many threads, and why ? Because when I was still fairly new here, in a post addressed to somebody else, I refered to Fred as, “he seems like a decent fellow, although can be a little irrational at times”; a deluge of sewage language followed me, which also had to been seen & endured by all the other posters, whilst the Mod twiddled his thumbs.

    There are a few unstable characters here, nice as pie one day & then a torrent of apoplectic abuse the next day, and mostly over the most ridiculous of reasons. However do not try to reply like for like, as the Mod seems to have one leniant rule for some he has a soft spot for, & another censoring rule for all others.

  • Fred

    @Macky

    You didn’t learn your lesson, don’t talk about me or you’ll get flamed to hell and back, do you understand yet or do you want it spelled out for you?

    @Jon

    I have been on the internet a long time now and have encountered many extremists and fanatics. Their methods are always the same, they make wild easily disproved claims and when offered evidence to such they start the personal abuse and character assassinations.

    I would have thought on this blog where Craig was branded dshonest, alcoholic and a womaniser just for pointing out the truth about the British government’s involvement in torture such tactics would be understood. Obviously I was wrong.

    So the rules are simple, I am quite prepared to discus the issues in a civil manner but as soon as anyone starts talking about me the flames will start. If they don’t like the flames they can just not talk about me, if they talk about me there will be flames.

    Simple, isn’t it?

  • Macky

    “You didn’t learn your lesson”

    Sure I did Fred Corleone, as my original comment was rather ironically, actually to defend you, (yes I was new & naive), a mistake I will not be making again.

    However the real lesson, very apt here, is that only a fool will try to argue with another fool.

    BTW how do your threats to subject people to flame wars square with the Mod’s statement that threats & obsessive targetting of others will not be tolerated ? Are you still one of the precious protected species ?!

  • Juteman

    I didn’t ‘get off lightly’, Macky.
    My sleep is being disturbed by this horrible vision of Thatcher with a beard.
    In the ‘vision’, Fratcher actually answers questions. I nearly fainted today.

  • Juteman

    Your refusal to answer the simple question, Fred, and the distress the question obviously causes you, leads me to think you are ashamed of your answer.
    Many Scottish members of the British Labour Party have the same issues. Maybe there is guilt, that they know deep down that that they are acting against the best interests of their fellow countrymen/women. For reasons of self interest, and/or loyalty to London?
    They support all other nations seeking self determination, such as the Palestinians, but go into mental meltdown over the subject of Scottish independence. Terms such as Nazi, fascist, elite, etc, etc, are used, but maybe they should look in the mirror, and see their own naked, aggressive British Nationalism.

  • Fred

    “Your refusal to answer the simple question, Fred”

    No retard I refused to answer a fucking lie.

    I have stated many times I am not against independence so why are you still saying I am fuckwit?

    I am against shit for brains flag waving morons who start hurling personal abuse when you point out they are lying little shits.

    Understand yet?

  • Jon

    Fred,

    I didn’t see the genesis of the war you have with a few people here, but my moderator’s view is that some of your comments are not in keeping with the civil exchange that is generally expected. I appreciate that there may be some history that I am unaware of; it is unfortunately the case that when examining how an argument started, it is rare to find both sides have not indulged in ad hominem of varying degrees.

    For what it’s worth, I tend to include in that category snarky asides or comments made about a person for the benefit of the gallery. I think these modes of discourse are unhelpful, though many of them fall below the high threshold for deletion.

    However, my recent snapshot of the discussion is that some of your posts are exclusively made for the purpose of abuse, and I have snipped a couple of them. I would be most grateful if you would refrain from the temptation of making such contributions. If someone accuses you of being racist or a member of the BNP, that is perhaps unpleasant, but where a debate about nationalism is concerned (or, indeed, immigration, which we’ve done here heatedly before) I think it is par for the course. Let it bounce off you and continue the discussion, or alternatively desist from engaging that interlocutor, if you think further exchange would be fruitless anyway.

    All,

    I should be most grateful if everyone could keep the debate civil. I appreciate that political disagreement can get emotional, but throwing insults is not the appropriate way to win – if indeed “winning” is possible anyway!

  • Fred

    @Jon

    Your damned right my posts are made for the purpose of abuse.

    Anyone wants to discus the issues I’m happy to discus the issues.

    Anyone wants to make it personal I’m happy to make it personal.

    That’s fair isn’t it? It’s up to them. I’m happy either way.

    I’m not prepared to waste my time defending myself from their lies and accusations, soon as they make it personal I let loose.

  • Juteman

    Jon.
    Maybe my memory is wrong, but I don’t think I ever swore, or used any insults?
    Over time, I have recently tried to mock Fred into answering a question, as every other tactic has failed.
    He can mis-direct and evade all he likes, but my posts aren’t full of disgusting language.

    It’s obvious what his position is anyway, so i’ll stop asking, for his benefit.

  • Fred

    “Maybe my memory is wrong, but I don’t think I ever swore, or used any insults?”

    You tell lies, that is worse.

    “It’s obvious what his position is anyway, so i’ll stop asking, for his benefit.”

    Only in your dreams Sunshine, I don’t inhabit your sordid sectarian world. What I am is of no relevance. If you could dispute what I say you wouldn’t be attacking me.

  • Juteman

    I’ve never attacked you. I asked you questions that you found too difficult to answer, and you resorted to foul abuse as a deflection device. It’s a well worn technique used by British Nationalists in the Labour party. You hear it all the time in the MSM about those ‘nasty cybernats’, when in reality, it’s the cyberbrits that fill the media with their bile.
    I really do think there is a possibillity you are unwell, so for your own health, i’m finished with this thread.

  • Fred

    “I’ve never attacked you.”

    Another lie. You accused me of being a Unionist, a vicious attack. Then you accused me of being a Nationalist another vicious attack.

    The thread was perfectly civil till you started hurling your personal abuse about.

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