What 2,000 People Look Like 154


Various unionist nutters have tried to claim that the outrageous BBC/MOD propaganda lie of 35,000 people at Armed Forces Day in Stirling is true. This picture was taken at 1.30pm when the crowd was largest.

There is a lot to give scale in this photo. Look at the vehicles. Look at the marquees.

Look at the marquee closest to the top on the left. There is a van parked right in front of it. From that van, we can measure that it is a sixty foot by forty foot marquee.

Using simple measurement techniques, it is easy to see that the entire crowd could fit into three – or at most four – of those marquees. Perspective is on the side of crowd overestimate as the marquee is further away from the camera than any of the crowd.

If you observe rationally, and look at the clues as to scale, it is not difficult to work it out. That the MOD can claim 35,000 people is a lie by a factor of about twenty times. That the BBC repeats this state propaganda is worse than anything I have seen recently on Russia Today or Chinese state CCTV.

And here is the crowd by the climax – the Red Arrows fly past at 5pm. I have seen more people at a garden fete.


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154 thoughts on “What 2,000 People Look Like

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  • Anon

    What is the source of your photographs? I was there yesterday and while I would say that the crowd did not reach 35,000 there were certainly many thousands watching the Red Arrows, more than your photograph would suggest.

  • DougtheDug

    Hi Craig, Stuart Campbell of Wings over Scotland was watching the TV feed from the BBC about the AFD and apparently they never mentioned the word “Bannockburn” once, only referring to “other events” in Stirling.

    He tweeted the BBC’s James Cook about it but never got a reply as far as I know.


    Not only have the BBC issued some dodgy numbers they also totally blanked the Bannockburn event on Saturday.

    Stuart’s also got a blog post about it here:

  • John Goss

    So pleased to see the BBC getting caned again for its atrocious and inaccurate reporting of trivial events like this and its non-reporting of the genocide in Eastern Ukraine and the Austerity march on which 50,000 people showed their distaste for harsh government measures. We are paying a television licence fee that cannot be questioned because the BBC will not even respond to questions against its policy. We need to get rid of the board. Here journalist Owen Jones very articulately takes the BBC to task. 6,000 people have already complained.


    The BEEB is no more than a mouthpiece of a bereft government and a failed economy.

  • Peacewisher

    Whilst I greatly welcome the complete and utter disproving of sate propaganda displayed by this picture, it is unfair to suggest that RT.com exaggerates headcounts to any real extent just because it is funded from Russia. As they are trying to become an independent alternative to BBC, CNN, Aljazeera, CNN, etc. RT would have to be very careful to ensure that any figures they provide are verifiable.

    The UK seems to have already become an insular state… e.g. Cameron has been hammered by the rest of the world’s media regarding his stance over Juncker, but he got a favourable press in the UK. His party has figured that most UK citizens don’t care what the rest of the world thinks… and they may be right?

  • Peacewisher

    Nice destruction of Anon’s, post, through publishing that second photograph. Why deny the truth, Anon, why not learn from it!

  • Richard G

    Now you know why the BBC have been tightly cropping their photos (or maybe the MOD did it for them given out with their 35,000 att press release).

  • craig Post author

    Strange, the last post was infested with unionist trolls claiming the crowds were vast. Where have they all gone.

  • Mary

    Oh what a tangled web we weave
    When first we practice to deceive. – Sir Walter Scott (Marmion, 1808)

  • Peacewisher

    Well, Anon, CNN got away with it with those “images of celebrating Palestinians” after 9/11, so the BBC obviously thought they could get away with it as well. And of course they always do, because most people are completely unaware about “news management” (actually, lies and deception).

    How do they expect societies to evolve and get better when they resort to such methods…

  • craig Post author


    “How do they expect societies to evolve and get better when they resort to such methods”.

    I think that’s exactly what the 1% are striving to prevent.

  • Peacewisher

    Maybe they’ve run away to tell their bosses, Craig… who’ll then have to “manage it further” (more lies and deception?) Well, that’s my experience of public sector “clever young things” who get found out. I’m sure we can all remember “the dodgy dossier”.

  • Peacewisher

    LOL, Craig. However did Blair get promoted so far beyond his capability and get us into this mess? One assumes that the ptb could see what sort of society he was about to create when his policies started to bite, from 1998 on… I’m fascinated by the NLP theory, but surely a potential leader would have been screened for “unhingedness” beforehand.

  • jake

    It’s a shame that the turnout was so low. Still, there’s more support for the Armed Forces than the pictures and turnout suggest. Maybe if it hadn’t been politisiced more folk would have turned up.

  • Fedup

    I have given up watching or reading any of the corporate media as I find these an exercise in delivering mushroom treatment; keeping the punters in the dark and throwing manure at them.

    However, as I was channel surfing, whilst eating my breakfast I stumbled on the aunty’s embittered stenographers debating Iraq; with a bitter tone delivering the news about the “second hand, old, (1970s old) Russian jets delivered to the Iraqis” (paraphrasing) had me in stitches. It is evident that the plans have not panned out for Iraq and Putin (I am aware of the congenital hatred of Russians) is pissing on the parade of the relevant “masters of the universe” with glee, by sending the jets to Maliki.

    However not to digress too much, the auntie and her corporate gaggle of stenographers inflating the numbers and faking the photos ought to be a given by now, and it should come as no surprise.

  • Peacewisher

    Maybe, Jake, but don’t you agree that they shouldn’t have blatantly lied about it? This looks particularly despicable after what happened (or according to the BBC didn’t happen) at Parliament Square last Saturday.

  • Jemand

    With 35,000 ppl, half of whom probably have cameras, there should/will be literally thousands of photos on facebook and other sites that verify the true numbers. From the above pics, it’s hard to see how 20x the apparent number (1600 odd) would be comfortably accomodated.

  • R. Duncan

    Read both your articles on the AFD and think you got it spot on.

    Many who attended the Bannockburn Day left later and dropped by the AFD but the 35,000 they boast about is pie in the sky .

    As an ex soldier i am angry that the servicemen were used as a poltical tool for the NO vote. I heard they were also handing out BT leaflets to the crowd. . Against the rules you know.Not that it will make much difference as most soldiers i know ( a fair few too) state loudly and proudly the will vote YES.

    The BBC, MSM and Westminster have abused and lied to the people of Scotland since day one of this referendum and will pay a price when independent Scotland closes down the whole shop.

    Pravda would be proud of the Beeb.

    Lets see if they mention the protests this afternoon at PQ about their bias and spin for pro union drivel.I won’t hold my breath.

  • Peacewisher

    @Fedup: It is worse than “mushroom management”, it is blatant lying. You know, the sort of thing Tony Blair unbelievably got away with back in 2002 & 2003, and I’m suddenly very hopeful and optimistic for the future as I realise that millions (including Armed Forces) haven’t forgotten those lies.

  • Anon

    Mr Murray,

    I don’t have the same predilection for alcohol as you. So the drink was untouched, including the malt whiskey.

  • Mary

    Anon I believe ‘whiskey’ is the American and Irish usage. ‘Whisky’ comes from Scotland.

    But I am no expert on alcohol.

  • MJ

    What you fail to understand Craig is that those marquees were filled with thousands dignitaries playing sardines.

  • Kempe

    I don’t know about the rest of the “unionist trolls” but I’ve been painting the spare room. Just stopped for a cuppa.

    Hint:- When you’re in a hole, stop digging. This has clearly got you rattled and devoting two threads to it is beginning to smack of desperation. Perspective makes it extremely hard to estimate dimensions and trying to scale everything from the tiny image of a van which is parked obliquely to the marquee simply isn’t going to work.

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